Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Relationships, good relationships, bad relationship, healthy relationship, unhealthy relationship. So many freaking podcasts about relationships, and guess what I'm going to talk about relationships on mind today. I'm thrilled. So it is what it is. Relationships are gonna be here forever. As long as there are humans on the planet, we will be in some
type of relationship with each other. So stay tuned. What's up everybody? Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Checking In. I tell you guys all the time, I cannot do what I do. First of all without my incredible team at Black Effect and Relevy, Angela, Samantha, Nicole Honey and all of y'all. Thank you so much. And as I'm talking to Bird, just hit my window.
God blessing. I can't do what I do. And each week just gets so exciting from an array of topics that we get the chance to talk about, and so I'm really pumped up about today's episode. As a licensed therapist, she has been featured on the Oprah Winfrey Network, Assence, CBS, and Forbes. Please welcome the award winning speaker, media personality, and best selling author. That's right, KeAndre Jackson.
Thank you so much for having me, Michelle. I'm super excited to be chatting with you today.
Girl. Come on in, come on in now listen. You love talking about relationships. I love talking about relationships. Therefore, we love talking about relationships. And there are many relationship podcasts, or there are many relationship topics that are going on right now. Who's supposed to pay for? What? Should it be? Fifty to fifty? Would you date the bus? Drive up? Narcissistic people in relationships? And so on and so forth?
What do you think? What do we not talk enough about as it relates to relationships, Michelle.
There's so much that has been going around in these social media streets that have been annoying me, first of all, but also it's just coming from the wrong and a different perspective. I have worked with so many different couples and been in the relationships for almost a decade now, and I see so many people talking about toxic relationships and trauma and all of the negative things, and narcissism and this and that, and those are all great conversations.
I am completely here for all of the podcasts, all of the relationship coaches, all of the people talking about it. But what I have yet to see us talk about in depth is what a relationship that is healthy entails. We know all the negative stuff. Okay, we know all the bad stuff. We know all of the ups and downs and all of that, but what does it entail to have a healthy relationship? And I recently did a real about this on my ig and it got some good,
great responses. So I knew that this was a topic that people were yearning for and just wanting more of. And so I'm here to talk about that.
Come on, somebody, we're gonna get into it. But I know I jumped right in because I was like, man, I love talking about really relationships, but a part of me I love talking about what are people saying what makes a relationship work? Especially if you're fighting for a relationship we're both When I say fighting for when both people, they're doing the work, they know they want to be together and things are lining up. I'm not talking about
two unequally young people. I'm talking about people that have been on the healing journey. They wanted to work. What does it look like? Because people say relationships should not be work, but I'm sorry, it's work for me, all right. Meaning the reason why I say it's worked for me, when you've gone all these years by yourself, it's probably going to take a couple years to unlearn how selfish I have become being on my own and by myself
all these years. So we're gonna get into that. But I wanted to give Keandra a chance to be like, girl, where are you from? What's your mama name? Where are your people from? As we say you are so funny?
You are so funny? I mean are you? Are you saying that you want to know a little bit more personally about me?
I know you're a licensed therapist, and you are an expert in authors relationship. You've been with Forbes essence, CNN Award winning best selling author. Who is Chandra? When you take away all of that, which.
Is by the way, you get spicy with me today, Michelle, You're getting spicy. I love this because I don't always get a chance to take off the professional hat and just be my authentic self. And so your girl is from Compton, California, born and raised TPT and so I
came from a broken home. My parents divorced when I was about ten years old, just so much domestic violence, emotional abews going on in my home, and so I kind of just went on this crazy professional and personal mission to help people have healthy relationships to the best as possible. I knew that it wasn't healthy for me to just see people married divorce, married divorce, which is the theme that I have seen in my family indefinitely, and so I just knew that that wasn't supposed to
be that way. And if I can help people bridge the gap, have healthy relationships, keep people together, have healthy family units, that it will be a game changer. So I love the fact that I can merge being a black woman, being from Compton, California, and also being a licensed therapist and just kind of bridge those gaps. And it really just helps us to have great conversations around black mental health, healthy back black families, healthy black love
that we don't always have. So your girls from Compton, she's currently single. Just in case my husband's listening, you know, he might want to come get me.
That's right, go get her. She's out there. She is out there, she is waiting for you. She's ready, all right. She knows what it takes to have a healthy relationship.
Absolutely, yeah, go.
Get your girls. She's glowing, by the way, She's absolutely beautiful, which means her glow on the outside I think is indicative of the work that she's done on the inside. You know, from what I can see now. Because you grew up in a home and both parents divorced, you easily could be the expert on by helping me identify red flags in a relationship. But you want to say, no, let's identify what can keep a family together.
Absolutely, I could be the poster board for divorce for unhealthy relationships. And I do talk about red flags and things that people should be aware of. That's a part of, you know, this relationship space for me. But I also have seen that people just don't know what healthy relationships entail. They don't know how to navigate them, they don't know how to let them go, they don't know. They just do not know. And I think it's because we aren't
taught how to have healthy relationships. We just kind of fall into a relationship and we try to figure it out in the midst of it, and no one gives us those tools early on. I've been saying this for years that I do believe that relationship skills should be a life skills class that we teach our kids in elementary because we grow up and we just don't understand what this entels. So healthy relationship is the name of the game over here.
So two things that come to my attention when I was growing up. To see my parents handle conflict, it's like, okay, not necessarily the best or healthy, then you will it's a possibility you can do what you saw because you're thinking, well, if mom and daddy are going off on each other like this, but they can still get up and go to church in the morning, this is what it's going to be or this is what it should be because
they didn't break up. But for me personally, when I got into a relationship relationship with someone who didn't have that kind of family dynamic, it helped me see like, oh what I witnessed what normal? It was actually dysfunctional, but because parents stayed together, they made it work. We just feel like seeing a parent a parental unit not know how to handle conflict, that this is how it's supposed to go.
Yeah, and that's completely inaccurate. Just because two people decide to stay together. That doesn't mean that's the healthiest choice for their relationship and or for the children who are watching. And so I tell people all the time, and most people don't like this, but it's it's healthier sometimes to leave than it is to stay. And people want to hold on to it and say, oh, I'm gonna thug it out till my kids get eighteen, baby, and then
I'll let the relationship go. No, no, no, you probably need to do it now because you're teaching your children how to have ineffective and unhealthy relationships. So when they do get into coll and they do start dating, they're going to model what you have shown them. And if you're showing them toxic, if you're showing them not being able to communicate effectively in discord, that's exactly what they're going to pick up and exhibit in their relationship modeling.
So modeling and being that example is so important and we have to do more of that.
Well, what about the person that says I'm faithful because of the vowels I made. I know this is not healthy, I know this is toxic, but we've got to stay together for our children.
So listen, I know we people of faith over here. I completely understand your vows and sticking to those because you did say them in front of God, in front of your family and friends, and I'm here for that. But I firmly do not believe that God wants us to stay in relationships that are going to be detrimental to us, that are going to pull us away from our assignment, that's going to pull us away from our God given destiny. And if we choose to stay in that,
there is going to be a consequence. Delayed obedience still has consequences.
It's still delayed. Obedience is still disobedient, absolutely, that's just what it is, and it still has consequences.
We don't always see the immediate effects of those consequences, but if you do have children, or if you do have some type of legacy that you're leading, you are going to see that this isn't going to be the
best option for you. So understanding that if you choose to stay in a relationship that you're probably wasn't supposed to be in in the first place, because there are some people who just was not supposed to get married to begin with, but they did it because they were lonely because they want a children, because they want a stability, because society says you're getting older and you need to settle down. Those are not valid reasons to be in
a relationship. I would rather be single for the rest of my life and being my God given assignment than to just be with anybody.
Okay, now I like that. What about people that are saying I don't want to be in a relationship because I just want to focus on myself.
I get that.
Because that's a trend. I mean it's trending. It's like your girl is going to be honest too. I have had those thoughts, like I've gone this long life is good? Why do I want to bring in another? See? This is why you should get married young, because when y'all gonna be forty four, you're used to you know, every down and then you have company over. But that ain't living together. That ain't married. Right. I can handle you coming over and you visiting for the weekend and then
you going about your married way. But that's just the thing about being selfish or could that be a make or break? So two questions that could be a make up break or why a person decides not to get in a relationship because they enjoy their their alone time. But then there is this trend of I am going to focus on myself. I'm just concerned is it focusing on yourself to get better or focusing on yourself just
for selfish reasons? And is that a defense mechanism. I probably ask ten questions in one question.
No, those are all valid questions and great questions. I think studies have shown more recently that people are delaying getting married, having children, and all of those things for various reasons. And I'm not here to knock anybody because people are in different spaces, they're in different seasons. Yeah, and I'm here for that. There's been seasons of my life personally where I've been like it's grind time. I
need to build out this empire. I need to focus on my business, get licensed, establish myself, and I'm not interested in dating right now. But currently that has shifted and changed because your girl has built some things right and so now I'm longing for that companionship. I'm longing for the partnership. I'm longing to be married essentially, And so I think it's just about discerning the seasons of what you're in and making sure that you pushing aside
the desire to date are to get married. Isn't you running? Because there's a difference between I'm working on myself, I'm doing me, I'm building something. This isn't the season, or isn't me running because I'm scared? Isn't me running because all of the men are the women that I've dealt with, have treated me wrong, and now I'm scared that it's going to happen again. There's going to be patterns repeated. So we just have to be aware of what the root cause is and why we're doing those things to
begin with. But if you do desire marriage, you do desire partnership and companionship, you have to make sure that your words, your language, and your actions aligned with that. Too many people are saying, f these men day raggedy. The dating pool got p in it. I don't want this, you know, all of those ideologies, but they're still desiring it.
Not only does the dating pool have pe in it, we called it brown sharks when I worked at a water thing park.
God, brown sharks not brown sharksship. I mean it can have some brown sharks in it too, Like, let's be real, but even if those things are true, you still have to be hopeful. You still have to speak positive and speak life over the thing that you desire, because if you're speaking death to the thing that you desire, it's not going to work out for you. God is going to be like, well, why should I give you this
if you are canceling it out with your words. So we have to be cautious about the things that we want, the things that we desire, and speaking life into it, even though the things that we just mentioned are still valid.
Wow. So I'm going to assume getting to healthy relationships that if you want the relationship to work and thrive, speaking.
All big time words and action, they have to align. If you want a relationship to work, one you got to be with the person you're supposed to be with. That's exhibit A. We haven't really fully dived into that, but I personally believe, especially with the work that I've done and this I haven't done any studies on this,
it's just my own personal observation. I believe anywhere between sixty five and seventy five percent of couples or with people who they are not supposed to be with, that's pretty high.
Sixty five to seventy five percent of people are with people they are not supposed to be.
Absolutely, I firmly why, I firmly Well, you.
Named a few reasons. You named a few reasons like, listen, I just got married because I was thirty years old it was time to get married. Or we got married and we got kids and we're popular in our church and it was the right thing to do. I just don't want to be lonely or child. He gives it to me hoody like I have never known.
All of those are valid reasons. Children. Societal pressures essentially right, because society tells us once you get past thirty thirty five, you washed up, watched up, nobody was gonna want you. So whatever you need to do, you need to do it before that timeframe. And so people get in relationships just because they dated them when they were in high school, or because they want financial security, because that person gave them attention and a time where they were lonely or frustrated,
because they may be good in bed. There's so many different reasons. And instead of us assessing and saying, okay, God, have you or should you allow me to date this person? Because we got to start there. Before I'm dating somebody. When we get in a relationship, I'm talking to God, is this the person I need to be dating? Because if God say no, it's over for me, I'm walking away. But I don't think people have those conversations enough.
Well, let me tell you. I did something where I was dating someone and they took me to one of my favorite Jamaican spots in New York. And I won't say nothing further. Nobody did. And we hadn't even sat down yet. They had just taken a drink order, so I ordered me like a Jamaican, some type of fruit drink, and I promise you, I felt like I heard God say this ain't it, baby, This ain't the one. I'm like, yad. We even sat down and eat, Yeah, what are you
talking about? I stayed with this person for like four years, and it was so many things happening that I normally would not put up with, but I put up with it anyway. And when I look back, I wasted four years with someone that God specifically said, I'll tell you this is how he said it. This is not the one. So I can imagine those of us who have our ears tuned, we do hear God. The majority of us hear God. We just act like we don't and we do what we want to do because we think He
just play. And so I've gone through unnecessary heartache, unnecessary anxiety thinking, well, I'm the only person unmarried within my circle, so let me hopefully this one locks me down, and just certain things. Even at the time, KeAndre that you fall in love with what's basic? Well, he pursued me, Well, he.
Should go hard.
Well he took me to my favorite place. He should. That don't mean they're the one because they do basic things, you know what I mean. So I didn't mean to hijack the conversation, but it is something as it relates to listening to that voice that says, maybe they're nice and sweet as pie, they're not for.
You, that's right. And I've had those personal experiences as well where God has literally told me this person is not fen you're even supposed to be dating. We haven't even got through the relationship stage, right. God was like,
this isn't someone you're supposed to be dating. And the interesting part about that for us who do tap in and hear God, you know a lot of that we need to be obedient to what God has telling us to do, first of all when we hear it the first time, but also to understanding that if someone isn't for you, they're either going to push you or pull
you from where you're supposed to be. So just like your story, you know, you could have potentially been on a completely different path for those four years, right, but you were with this person after hearing God say that this wasn't And so we have just if we can just tune into what he's telling us, I think we would just save ourselves so much heartache and so much pain and really just go for our purpose because at the end of the day, you want somebody who's going
to be fully aligned and you shouldn't have to question those things. And also too, before we even move on from this, a lot of the times when God tells us no, it doesn't even mean that the person is a person. The person that I'm referring to, he checked off all the boxes, Baby, all of the boxes. Okay,
but God still said that he wasn't the one for me. No, And so now I'm holding him up from the person he's truly supposed to be with, and I'm holding myself up from the person who I am truly supposed to be with. So that doesn't necessarily mean the person that's toxic or wrong or bad. It just means that we're not a fit for our destiny that God has for us plan.
And that is so amazing because there are some people. So I know you said sixty to seventy five percent of people are not supposed to be together, Well there is a twenty five percent. And in that twenty five percent, I've seen at least one couple from my hometown, and I'm like, wow, they really supposed like they're such a fit.
They're building things within their marriage, within their business and just seems like things, and I love how they're transparent, Like now, listen, there are times we wake up in the morning to be like, you sure were we supposed to be together? And you're gonna have that? Do I like
you today? You know? Apparently they say you're gonna have that, And so I think before you get married, it gives you a chance to like not make that mistake versus you know, even in a more recent relationship, our therapist was telling us like, hey, these issues were gonna come
up even after y'all got married. So be grateful that the issues came up before marriage, right, So, Keandra, would you agree that in our singleness, that could be time for us to fix the daddy issues or the mommy wounds, or the abandonment issues, certain abuse that still is unhealed, where the smell of something can trigger you and your partner is like, wait a minute, I just fried some chicken.
What's it's just fishing. But when you're upset, like, wouldn't you say in our singleness, we should kind of be working on that stuff.
One hundred percent. In our singleness, this is the time to work on ourselves indefinitely. I always say in every area mentally, spiritually, emotionally, sexually, all of those things, you need to work on it as much as possible. And I don't really subscribe to the idea of you being there are people who are one hundred percent healed and delivered, okay, of all of the things. There are some people out there, but most of us, myself included, You're still going to
have a little bit of residue. You're still going to have some unhealed areas of you, even if you work on them. It's okay that you are triggered from time to time. But how you manage those, how you deal with it, what you do when those moments pop up is what really matters. So you your singleness not just to get the bag, but you should do, but also to be as aware as possible. And I because I'm a therapist, you are and you are so here for therapy.
You know, that's one of the biggest components is having a profession.
I was like, ooh, I'm so healed. I've been working on myself all these going on five years. Oh, I'm so healed. And then when you start dating, because you don't know if you're really healed, because right now it's just me and the walls, not the walls in my bed and my couch and the dog. Like, you don't know if you're really healed until you bring somebody else in for a longer period of time. And then you be like, so you'll know if you healed if your
responses become different. Notice I said response and not react. Absolutely so just even that, like, Okay, in singleness, we can do all the healing work that we can do, but sometimes you won't know until you're like dating a person or in deep relationship. I was talking with someone who they've been married a couple years now, I think going on three years, and he was like, the first year,
we was like, we don't know. The second year, woo, he said, the third year, we're still working on some stuff. And so he mentioned a few things in her by the way, and I was like, man, it's like, until you're like married or obviously in a deep relationship, things that you didn't think were issues, Kendra, why does it happen in relationships where it's like things mirror you or why is that who?
I firmly believe that God is still pruning and shifting up and there's a lesson in that that he wants us to learn. You can work through as many things as you work or can work through, but you are correct when you get into that relationship, those daddy issues, those mommy issues, how you're retreated in previous relationships will pop up. And if you are now on a space to like have some new skills right, because that's essentially what it is. You're learning new skill sets to be
able to manage this trigger that's happening. If you're not able to do that, it's going to send you back a few steps. And so even for the people who are already in relationship are married, just like you know the people that you knew that first one to two years is very hardward because you're merging two different backgrounds. You're merging upbringing, parenting styles, money, sex, you're managing all
those you're merging those two things. And it's very hard to merge two different lives when they have been very separate for a long time. So it really has to be about people wanting to make it work. I'm very big on language, and I don't like when people say that relationships are hard. I do believe that they're work, but I think we need to change the dialogue and the language and pull out that hard part. Because if you think something is hard, you're not going to put
in the work to make it work. You're going to give up. Also, let it go, it's hard, forget it. But if it's challenging, if it's going to help you get to your goal, if it's going to push you to be better, those are, you know, words that I like to associate with relationships more than just hard, so good.
I heard you say, push you to be better. I want to get into what healthy relationships look like because this thing will My sisters got the song crazy in Love, right, And then I want to speak to does love kind of trigger psychosis? Can love actually trigger?
Okay? So psychosis for the people who don't know what that word means, PSYCHOLSA didn't. Essentially, when your thoughts, your feelings, and your emotions overtake you to the point where you are disconnected from reality. And so typically when people are in love, we experience what we call what I like to call those feel good hormones, right for serotonin, the dopamine, the oxytocin, all of those things fled through our brain and fled through our body, and so it feels good.
It's a great feeling. And so sometimes all of that those feel good emotions, when we are in love, those pop up and they overtake us to the point where we just don't know what to do. Sometimes like we literally don't know what to do. And so we quote unquote at crazy over this man or this woman because we are in a space where our body is doing some different and unusual things. But it really does go
back to your upbringing. It goes back to your attachment, It goes back to how you have received love growing up. Because if some If you're in relationship with someone and they want to leave you and not necessarily dump you, but we are leaving your presidence, or I'm going from an extending amount of time away from you, and you have an anxious attachment style, you go at crazy. You're gonna be calling and text me where you at? Why you didn't call me, why you didn't check? Yeah, you
with somebody else? What's going on? All of these with these things will pop up, and this is where we get the crazy and love type of energy because of our attachment. And so if you don't know your relationship attachment style, you need to and you need to make sure that you're trying to figure out what that looks like for you, but also move towards what we call a more secured attachment style, which is the healthiest attachment style.
Okay, so what your describement was that anxious attached.
That was anxious, So.
We got anxious secure. How many attachments are there?
I typically stick to the main three. So there's an anxious attachment style, which is the nervousness, the fear of someone leaving you. Typically women have a very anxious attachment style. There's avoidant, which is typically men.
Okay, okay, okay, that's that's what it was. Anxious and avoided.
A yeah, and got Avoidant is treaty because it's like I want I want you to be closed. I want to be attached to you, but I'm so fearful that you're gonna hurt me that I push you away intentionally and unintentionally.
Stay far away, come close at the time.
Absolutely absolutely.
It's like if you're driving the stick shift, it's like your feet can't be on the gas and the clutch at the same time, so it's it's the push pull.
But can you imagine though, like if most women are anxious, right, and then most men are avoidant, that doesn't mesh well at all. And I think that's a huge part of why people don't have healthy relationship because they don't know how to manage it. They don't know how to securely say you can be away from me, and that's perfectly fine. You have your own entire life, but I don't think you're cheating. I don't have to obsessively be with you.
Or if you're avoidant, you know, you can have your space, you can want me. I can come into your world, but space is okay too. So it's just a hard place to be in. If you've never heard of attachment style, you don't know what yours is or your partner, it can just have you in this weird, crazy dance. I can literally ruin your relationship.
Yes, Kendrew. Where do you think is the most reputable place for people to find out what their attachment styles are? Because you can google it and so much will pop up. Where can a person find their attachment style? Is it through therapy? Is it a quiz they take online?
One of my favorite books I can't remember the author at this time, but it's literally a book called Attached and so that is the best book that I have ever read on attachment style. So I would start there for sure. Definitely. Okay, see, like, let me add that to my reading list.
There are times I've had therapists on and I'll go and now go to iBooks and now just purchase the book as we talk.
So that's one of my favorite books on attachment styles. I do believe that there is a quiz you can take online, similar to kind of how there is a quiz on love languages online. There should be a quiz that you can take, but definitely unpacking that in a very deep way in therapy is going to be a game changer because attachment styles isn't just for a romantic reliflationships is how we handle our mama, our cousin, our friends,
our coworkers. All of that is the same energy. So when you know what ord is, it apply to every area of your life.
Keandra, you are helping me so much because I feel so bad because when we talk about relationships, we talk about romantic relationships so much that we forget No, We've got to have healthy relationships with family, with business, our peers, co workers, your bosses, or if you're a boss, you got to have a great leadership style. You gotta be kind. Okay, So we got to have you back for part two
on healthy relationships just within your life. But I want to dive into what healthy relationships look like or what they feel like, because look like can be one What do they feel like?
I love the difference between the thoughts and the feelings. So healthy relationships really comprised of a number of different things, but there are some key areas that I love to focus on. Healthy relationships, for sure, have reciprocity, meaning you are whatever you are dishing out, you are getting the
same amount back in. Now. I understand that there are different times and seasons where you know, things might be a little bit off kilter and it might be a ninety ten, seventy thirty, you know, twenty eighty situation one. But most times people understand that they have to pour into one another. And so if you find yourself given out so much to the point where you're depleted, you have nothing else to give. You are dry, you are exhausted, and your partner isn't trying to refuel your hub, that's
an indicator that you're not in a healthy relationship. And so reciprocity is a huge one. The second thing that I always talk about, and we could dive into that a different time as well, but really typing into communication, Oh my gosh, all of the couple that I have worked with thus far typically have some type of breakdown
in communication issues. Relationships who have healthy elements of them, they know how to resolve conflict, They know their partner's communication style, and they know when they need to mask the gas and say no, no, no, no no, we need to work through this right now. And they know that they need to let up at times where it's just like a not a winning battle, you know, so to speak. So understanding that communication is a game changer, and once
you learn that skill set, it really changes everything. But we can talk about respect, trust, accountability, support. These are all elements of what a healthy relationship would entail. So if you're looking at your relationship or your boot and you're not seeing a lot of these elements, I can imagine that there are some things that either need to be tweaked and talked about, or the relationship may not be viable anymore and you need to let it go.
There are certain vocal inflections that you might do with your friends that ain't gonna work well with the romantic partner. So I'm almost kind of learning that. Or I also feel like we just come with a different Lauri's We come with some little seasoning, you know, sometimes with the way we say things. But I'm like, no, you don't have to say it like that, because even the heart of what you're trying to say can get lost with how you say.
Absolutely, I'm big on tone of voice. You can say what you want to say to me, but that tone gotta be right, Okay, that tone gotta be right. You come with a different type of tone. We don't have a different type of conversation.
Okay, So tell us a tone, tell us give us a scenario. Okay, so or we can we can do role play.
Okay.
Do you like seafood, babe?
I do like seafood. I like seafood.
We always do seafood. I was thinking, can we do a Italian because I got a taste for this red ravioli. I know you are allergic to it, but I'm going to get some ravioli, some red ravioli.
Now you know I'm allergic to that ravioli. Why would you suggest that we go to Italian when I just told y'all want to seafood? Absolutely not, we're not going.
But you told me that you could be around red ravioli. You just can't ingest it. And we have seafood all the time. And I was just kind of thinking that, I mean, they're seafood at the Italian restaurant.
You're trying to land me in an emergency. This is no, absolutely not no, ma'am.
I guess seafood.
But even in that example, then you see how it turns up. I got you see how my boy.
The person to the point where the person just gave up, like you know what, seafood.
Clearly I shot down the whole idea without even hearing the other person's perspective of even why they wanted Ravioli or Italian in the first place.
So even though I was wrong for saying, I know you're allergic to it, that that's trigger mean, why would you like, why would you want that? You know? But I came back with but you told me you could be around it. You just can't ingest it.
And that also speaks to the fact that once someone gets revved up to a certain level, if they don't know how to bring themselves back down in the midst of conflict, this argument can go on for weeks and months and years. Right, So this is all about conflict resolution for sure.
Wow, Okay, what does it sound like when two people know how to have a healthy conversation?
So a healthy conversation between two people consist of what I call I statements versus you statements. So I statements means you're taking accountability for what you think and feel. So someone who knows how to effectively communicate will say, I feel I think I'm concerned that you know, using those words where it's they're taking that brunt of the ownership on. But when they start saying you, you did this, you didn't take out the trash you always late you you,
that puts the other person on the defensive. So I encourage people to use eye statements. You can express you're angry, you're frustrated, you're annoyed, but make sure that you're using it from an eye perspective. So, just to give an example, say, for instance, your partner never take out the trash can, and you get annoyed. Right, you come home and you can easily say you never take out the trash can, You've been playing video games all day, you lazy, you
ain't nothing, and it can go left. That person is immediately is going to be defensive. They're not going to want to take out the trash can, and it's going to be turned up. Right, it's going to not resolve anything. But that same person who has good communication with their partner can easily come home and say, hey, babe, I've been at work all day, I am so tired. Is it possible for you to take out the trash can
before I make dinner? That's going to be received a little bit better than that first yeah conversation that we just had. Right, the person can still decline or not, but the tone is different, the energy is different.
You could be like, Babe, you know the last time you took out the trash can ten years ago, you look so sexy.
No, once you did with something amazing, Michelle, you look so sexy when you do chores. Well, what you're doing right now is actually not a bad technique. We call this like the sandwich effect or like the Hamburger effect. Right where you start, you start with something positive, you give the constructive criticism of what you need in the middle,
and then you end with something positive as well. So typically studies have shown that we digest information better when it's sandwiched in between two positive things.
So you could.
Say, hey, you, if you're fine today, okay, I would like for you to take out that trash cand so when you walk high, I can look at your butt.
But I also hear that that works in leadership in business, where when you have to give somebody maybe a bad performance review, you start off with something positive, like you have been such a great asset to this company. Then you go into but we feel like you're still such an asset. This is what we're thinking could make the environment a little better for me and essentially for your performance. So it works in so many kinds of relationships, you know.
I just think the breakdown of our families probably is because of we don't know how to communicate. We don't know how to communicate, or some of us were even taught, like you couldn't even communicate in your household growing up because it was called talking back. So you don't know how to properly express that you are angry, that you are said that you actually do have a need, so you act out. You're forty five years old, acting like
a little kid. And do you find that you have to typically almost go back to a person's childhood for everything.
A good chunk of the things is going back to the childhood to kind of rectify or even to pinpoint some issues of why you are being the way that you are as an adult. It goes all the way back to childhood. And I think, especially in Black culture, things are so ingrained in us that we don't even think or realize that it's a problem. You know, like talking back is not always talking back, You're just expressing your thoughts and feelings in you know, a healthy way,
so to speak, even if you're a child. But it's like children are supposed to be well seen and not her you know, all of these stigmas that are placed up on us, and so we grow up thinking that those things are okay, or we even pass those things down to our children, and now we're silencing generation after generation because we didn't have the skill set to teach them.
And so typically when i'm you know, working with people, when we go back to the origin of things, is very enlightening because they didn't even they couldn't even connect the two, and so having a professional do that for them and say, hey, babe, this is probably the reason why you're acting the way you're acting as an adult because your mama said or your daddy did is very enlightened to a lot of people.
And that was the question about why do so many issues in our romantic relationships some come from the relationship we had with our.
Pad big time. I was watching a show called Unprisoned that's played by Carrie Washington and who was written by Tracy McMillan, and so she said something so powerful that I'm stealing, Okay, temporarily she said. She said, partner and parent is only one letter off from each other. Partner and parent is only one letter off from each other. And that stuck with me because that was completely correct, and.
I try not to hold my guess long, but you got to.
Unpeck down absolutely, So partner the way she's talking about literally the way it's spelled partner and parents. So she was just basically talking about the correlation of what we just mentioned about how our partners and romantic relationships. It
really stems from everything that we experience growing up. And you may think that you've had the best childhood or that your mom was perfect or she did all that she could, and that could be true, but understanding that there is a correlation between how you were parented as a child and how that plays into your romantic relationship is so important. So that one letter off it makes sense.
It makes so much sense. But I think that the the kidder for me was just making sure that we have the skill set now so we don't pass those negative things onto the next generation if you do, if you do decide to have children, so knowing that the buck stops with you and that you're going to shift and change.
It is so important, bababe. Parent and partner is one letter off. Can you make sure you're not parenting your partner, because if I gotta be.
Your mama, it's not going to work.
We're not partners. We're not partners. We have a parent I don't know what you would call that, if there's an actual term for that in the field of being a therapist. Well, no, that's parent child in version, Like is there a parent partner in version?
We're just saying I'm not your mom, I'm not your daddy. Yeah, that's okay, and clinical version of what you just said.
Uh can this has been so enlightening, y'all. We heard some things. The amazing thing about healthy relationships. There are probably like thousands of red flag situations, but the simplistic things, it's probably a shorter list of what it takes to actually have a healthy relationship. Just communication, honesty, love, respect, creating the atmosphere and a relationship to where it is safe I run into your arms, you know, after a long day or a difficult conversation with business or something.
And so it doesn't have to be complicated as far as what a healthy relationship can and tell if we have the basics, and you gave us some of the basics. I know some of us we're looking for some magical, mystical, theological answer, but sometimes it literally lies in. Maybe let's start with how you communicate, how you talk to your partner. Are you talking above them like they're beneath you, you know? Are you talking at them like this is my partner and we want to win.
And just remembering essentially that you're on the same team. That's what I teach a lot of my couples, just so so basic. We are not only opposing teams. We're not against each other. It's me and you against the problem. Right, We're on the same team. So just having that mindset and understanding that that's a part of it. Knowing that whatever we're going through, we're going to work on it together. Is Yeah, it's a skill set to take you far.
Since you said we are a team. Is it okay for a person to play Devil's advocate as a partner, Like if a person is coming to you with an issue they're dealing with, Okay, I've had this happen where a person feels like I wasn't on their side because I honestly called myself trying to have them see something from a different perspective, but to them it felt like I wasn't on their side.
It's okay to play devil's advocate when you tell them that you're playing devil's advocate, and also in a safe environment. If you're doing that in front of other people, friends and in public, baby, that's when it gets wrong. It's wrong time. But if you're doing that at home, and I even like to, you can even preface the conversation and say, hey, I understand what you're saying right now, but can I play Devil's advocate really quickly and give
you a different perspective. If they say no, all of it, then we're not going there because they're not ready, okay. But if they say yes, then you can insert that into the conversation and see how they respond. So even just doing something like that little small communication trick, as you know, stating that up front is important because if you don't state that and they think you're going to, they think you're going to intentionally be trying to, you know, harm them.
Well, because sometimes I have felt like in the past, like what I'm not gonna do is entertain when I know you're wrong, and like you said, we're gonna protect each other in public, but at home, I should be able to be like, all right, you want to hear from my perspective, because I don't even want to tell you you're wrong. I just want you to try to bring it to your attention and then and it's not even because you want to correct them, because like I said,
we're not your mammy, you're not your daddy. But I don't want you walking around here ignorant to a situation that can be harmful and detrimental to destiny. Right, because if we are going to be partners and we're gonna win, you got to be able to tell your teammate, bro, you got to stop traveling with the ball. You gotta stop fouling people. You gotta stop letting them go to the line and shoot out the free throws and they win. Right. So that's so good, Kendrew. You are just an absolute
joy to be with today. I want to unpack some more that whole attachment because that's kind of a newer conversation in the past few years. Narcissism love bombing is pretty popular topics, but we haven't really talked about attachment style. So I would love for you to come back soon and we talk about those three attachments style.
Absolutely, I would love to come back and talk about attachment stylum. Ok for having me, thank you for being open, and thank you for using your platform for good.
Oh, Kendra, thank you so much. You are amazing, y'all. I want to leave y'all with some amazing advice, she says, do not rely on well meaning but often misguided advice of friends and family. A serious relationship problem requires expert advice. You've helped a lot of us today just on your expert advice on a few things. And you didn't do it in a way that makes a person feel bad. You weren't sitting in a seat of judgment when you're helping us. Say no, we just got to communicate better.
And I'm praying that the love of your life over takes you, overwhelms you very very very very soon.
I receive it. I receive everything you just said.
Absolutely, Yes, Keandra, thank you for checking in.
Thank you for allowing me to be checked in.
Ah, You're the best, y'all.
Don't we love her?
She's coming back. Okay, we gotta let it go okay, fye. What a joy, what a delight. I can't wait for her to come back and share with us about attachment styles and how it's awesome that attachment styles, whether you have a secure attachment style and anxious attachment style or an avoiding attachment style, that it's not limited to your romantic partners, your romantic partnerships, your romantic relationships. So I'm excited for her to come back. Did y'all enjoy today's
episode or what? I cannot wait for her to come back. Thank y'all so much. Y'all know that you're loved. I'm so appreciative of every person that listens, and then you even go as far as to download the episodes. So just know that I'm thankful for you, and I'll see you. We'll talk again next week, all right, Bye bye. Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of Heart Radio
and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.