Checking In w/ Kalen Allen

stopping by. We're about to have fun. Y'all. Listen, y'all. I am excited. I have my buddy, someone who has wowed us, inspired us, encouraged us, and it's such a light. Some years ago, we saw him just doing videos at home, talking about pistachio marshmallow, seven layer taco salads that people would make, and he would deconstruct these videos and be like, now, ma'am, I don't look like a heart attack for it come to be on a toilet, and just like, his authenticity

is what won the hearts of millions. Went on to work with and have his own show through Ellen DeGeneres, and is now transitioning and doing so many great things. He is someone's friend. He is someone's son to us. We love him. He is Kaylin Alan, Hey Michale, Hey Bo, how you do? How are you feeling? I am good? I am good. How are you, dear heart? I'm wonderful. You look wonderful. You look so sity. I love it, chat, It's just I put on some oil. Uh huh. Because

Joe skin is always flawless, y'all. I'm like, does he get like micro deummer brasion and hydrofacials every day? Oh my gosh, I wish honey. It's genetics, baby, it's genetics. Now, we're not mad at that. We are not mad at that, y'all. Listen, I forgot to say, y'all. Klin is an artist, like, he's an all around artist, music actor. Can you tell us about the movie? Uh? Yeah, I get let me see where I cannot tea. So it's a Christmas movie.

It's a Christmas movie, which is what I'm excited about because you know, I'm also finishing a Christmas album right now. So it's gonna be a very Kalin Christmas, very Kalin Christmas. I love it. Congratulations. Let me tell you something, and this is a nugget. If you can do Christmas movies, Christmas albums, anything for Christmas, that stuff like lives on forever because people are always looking for something to do holiday. So you are right in there. Okay, so listen, Yeah,

you went viral a long time ago. Okay with your Kalin reacts food videos. All right, can you go into like what made you say I'm just gonna put this phone up here because people don't realize the power of the phone in your authenticity and how it can change your bank account. Well, you know what's funny about that is that so when this happened, this was in November twenty seventeen, right, So this is really the decline of YouTube. You know, back in the day, YouTubers were like a

huge thing. It was like that's what you dote. Well, the reason why I say that is because there wasn't as much emphasis on being a YouTube creator at this time. So like that wasn't a new thing that was coming up. Like the people that you would watch on YouTube have been doing it for years, you know, like the Jackie ian As, the Patrick Stars, these people had been doing YouTube for a very long time. So you weren't seeing

like new money being put into YouTube. And this was also before TikTok existed, So I really came in at a sweet spot of because it was so funny. Now especially it's like when it comes to reaction videos, like a few of us did them at this time, but now because TikTok has really made it really accessible to be able to do like a split screen kind of thing. Now everybody in a mama does it, you know what I mean. And at that time, it was an accident. It was not something that I was planning on doing.

You know. I was at school in Tippa University. I was getting my degrees in theater and film. The plan was that I was gonna move to New York and I was gonna try to be on Broadway and I was just gonna do that and that was gonna be it. And then that first semester of my senior year, is just had this feeling. I believe that I am divinely guided. That's what I told people all the time, And there was a feeling that told me to make that first video and then I did it and I posted it.

Next thing, I knew that woman had gone viral and then a month later I was going to feel my first episode of Ellen. And then in January twenty eighteen, I moved to Los Angeles. It all happened at three months. Wait a minute, have you heard Tabitha Brown story? Yes, kind of the same thing where she said she heard a voice say, get your phone, use your phone, and to see what you two have done, just by the power of making good use out of the phone, bringing

joy to people's hearts. Because people use their phones for evil. I'm just gonna say it, but y'all, you use your phone to make us did you know you were you trying to make us laugh? No? And you know what's so funny about that? And I tell people to all times that I'm not a comedian, and it's like, I just know I'm a comedic entertainer. I know comedy. I just know what's funny. And it's really a lot of times it's just how I talk. It's just how I

expressed myself. It's just who I am, you know. So it's just like I don't see it as I'm sitting down, like writing down a joke or something like that. It's just like every now, And to be honest, even the way that I make content. Now it's all off a feeling. I don't believe in making content just to say that

I've made some content or whatever. I have to feel it. So, for instance, like the other day, was at the grocery store and these two boys call me sir, and so that it's something that my spirit was like, this would be a funny video. So I went home. I was like, I already know what I want to say, I know how I want to say. I'm a pressure record and I'm gonna talk to this phone for a minute at

thirty seconds, you know what I mean? And I think And what I realized after that video is that I think because because it is so natural to me, I think it becomes so believable that people think that I actually really care about it, if that makes sense of being like and I'm like, I don't really care that these boys call me sir. Like that's not that's not keeping me up at night, you know what I mean. But it's like it's a part of the comedy. It's

a part of the hysteria of it all. It's a performance. I love it. I have those moments and where I should press record, but then I'm self conscious, like, well, you don't have on a makeup, I gotta do this, you gotta do that, don't be coming on looking busted. So a lot of my thoughts just stay thoughts. But I'm gonna try to do some more natural moments of you know, spontaneous filming. Now, where do you feel like that self consciousness comes from? Where does it stem from? Um?

So this could you interviewing me? I can't help it. I can't. Okay, I know where it comes from. It comes from always being known or seen as glamor hair and makeup always done, and it's like I should at least have on some lipstick. Okay. I'm not saying one that comes on natural with no makeup done or no hair done. I'm not saying that they're wrong, but it's just like if I don't, will it be like, oh,

what's she going through today? Okay, I don't know, but that's me overthinking assuming what people are thinking, and they're probably not. They probably don't care. Well I would. I would say that the flip is. I think it's also the fact of like you being in the industry at a time before social media, but at the level that

you were doing it as well. I can understand why you would have that perspective, and I think the industry has changed so much in today's day and age, is that it's two different times, you know what I mean. So I don't think it has anything to do with you overthinking at all. I think it's you thinking in what you're used to and what are you to be? You know what I mean, which that I can understand. And this has been your ask doctor Kaylin. Thank you

though you are so right, You're spot on. That's why I was sitting in the spirit of hush because I was like, Kaylyn is actually his spot on. I don't know. I just try to add prospective to stuff. You know. I think I'm very especially so. And I don't know

if I've even told you this before. Is that I plan on when this is, you know, when I decide I want to retire and I want to like, you know, sit down or somewhere, I plan to become a therapist too, specifically to people that work in the industry, because in my experience and going to therapy, therapists could only understand the everyday stuff, but when it came to industry stuff, they had no idea of how to help me and a lot of especially earlier that was a lot of

my issues were rooted in navigating the industry, and it was just like, well, who am I ls to talk to? You know what I mean? So I want to be able to be that resource to people. So you think we should go to school together and open up a brack, Come on, let's go, we should let's go. I like that. I like that. Okay, I'll let you get back to the interview with no, no, we no, because it's gonna flow and a half eighty percent of what we're talking about ain't even you're right about it. So you did

a reaction video? Now wait a minute. Were people that you did reaction videos too? Did they actually get offended? Some? Some at first? But it was never like a big thing. Um, But I do remember I think there was at some point when the videos would be, you know, featured on on Kalen or on Ellen, that people would be like, well, we need to cut, you know, like because it's like we're technically a cut of the ad revenue. You know. No, no, you don't need what your cook needed to be cut? Okay,

exactly exactly exactly. It cut the video, but the funny thing about that is that technically it's a parody, you know, because it's like a commentary or whatever. But you know, when you when you're dealing with something that was getting that many views. I think once I left ellen on Kaalen itself had already done over a billion views in itself. So it's like when you have stuff of that magnitude, of course people want to you know, cash in or

get a cut oft to check or whatever. I didn't really care about that because I don't that's not why I make stuff. But yeah, no, I think what was also crazy about it was just that then, and this is why I stopped doing them, was because I noticed that people were just making videos too. That was just nasty. And I think for me, everything is about authenticity, you know, And so I was like I was watching video and I'd be like that's not real, you know, and me

talking about like how I'm not a comedian. It's like, I'm not about to sit here and just write a couple of jokes to try and make this funny, you know what I mean. It's like I don't ever want to be a character or for it to feel inauthentic. So I was just like, so I just want to do with it that much. I'll just find something else to do, you know what I mean. I'm still stuck on because we saw the videos and then wow, I'm

just tripping. Like you said, it was only three months later that Ellen Degenerous calls you and then you literally Saunter and Sachet and strut out on that show and you sit down and you cross your legs and you're sitting with Ellen Degenerous. This is what twenty s eighteen. So I take the first episode December of twenty seventeen, and so what was that like? You get the phone call to go out there. Well, it was a whirlwind. Kansas born very much, so very much. So it was

a whirlwind, you know. So my first idea was that I was going to show up. It was gonna give me a cute little shutterfly check and I was gonna go buy my business. Like that's what I thought it was gonna be. And then I wasn't expecting to be offered at the job. And so when I was offer at the job, I said yes. On the show. I remember I left there. I was staying at the Hilton and Universal City Hunt, so I was at the Hilton, and I remember the next day. I think my flight

may have been in the evening or something. I was like, Okay, well, I'm gonna get up and go to Universal Studios. I ain't never been, you know, I'm gonna go buy myself. I gonna have fun and I'm mean right out to university. And I called at that time my acting teacher at Temple. I said, this is the deal. I was offered a job. I need to move to LA. The original contract did not say I needed to move to LA, but I knew that if I moved to LA, then I would be used more. They would use me more because I

was there. I was more convenient, they didn't have to pay for travel and stuff like that. And so I was like, we need to figure out how I can finish my degrees in LA, and with this move needs to happen asap. So I flew back to Temple, packed up all my stuff. We figured it out. I did class at night while I was at Ellen, and then I moved to Los Angeles. But I will say that it was very scary at first, and to be honest, it's probably one of my most depressive moments of my life.

And the reason is is because I was thrown into something with little to no guidance as to far as how it operated and how it worked, you know what I mean. Also, and when I got the job, I was working five jobs in college like I was used to, you know, working, working, working BBB, And now my only job is the Ellen Degenerous Show. But this is before

on Kalen. This is before regular appearances. So it's just like every down and then so I'm just sitting in the apartment like I'm just sitting in my apartment watching TV all day. It was driving me insane. I was like, I'm so bored. I was in like a furnished apartment, so it really wasn't mine. So the apartment was just like there and it was dark. There wasn't a lot of sunlight. I was like, I can't do this. This

is sad. I don't like it. So then that was when I asked for an office at Warner Brothers, because I was like, give me, give me purpose, give me somewhere I can go, you know. And I think that that was really why then everything else started to happen. Was because I was very hands on and you know me, I'm a very vocal person. I am very like all toesy and you know what I mean. So that's just

who I am. I could be wrong, but I'm wondering when you asked for an office, did that send a positive signal to them, like, Oh, he want to come in and work, he wants to be visible, versus someone else that might have been lazy, Right, Mike would just sit at home and be like, oh, I would just wait for them to call me. I'll just but you didn't have to. But you chose to go up there, maybe even when you weren't called, but just to be in the environment, being the atmosphere to stay upbeat. Is

that what am I hearing? You're right? Well, yes, yes, and I think you know, I think a lot of my career is I can honestly they say, I know, fool wholeheartedly. I am a boss and that is how I run my life. You know what I mean a lot of the opportunities that come to me is because I worked to make them happen. I made the connections,

I built the relationships, you know what I mean. Like and that's important to me because especially for me being from Kansas, it was like when people would ask like well, who do you look up to? Who do you want to be when you grow up? Or something like that. I'm just like, I don't there's nothing there. You know, a lot of who I am is made from the lack thereof, especially being like a black queer person, you know what I mean. So it's just like I have

to I have to work this hard. I have to do all this to be representation in visibility purposes, you know what I mean. Yes, And I know you've been very vocal about not only what comes with being black, but black and queer, and maybe the struggles or the limitations were they're any put on you even before, Ellen, Oh, even if they were before, I don't think I noticed it to the magnitude that I do now. And I would say that I even I even experienced social limitations

still to this day, you know what I mean. There are a lot of times, but now. Yeah. And the reason why I say that, it's because I think I think the the fulfillment was different, if that makes sense. I think prior to especially during theater, it was just like that's kind of where you know, we all lived, you know, that's where all the queer people went. They went to the theater. So it was just like right,

so it was like this was safe. But now, and I tell people all the time, it's like when it comes to my career, the frustrating thing apart about it is that I know that a lot of times it's something doesn't sustain or something as a failure, or say I do a show and it only has one season. It's like it would be different if I could know that that was because of my ability and I just need to practice some more or learn some more. I said.

But it is frustrating when you know that a lot of the rejection of who I am is because of bigotry or because someone doesn't want my black body on there, or they don't want my queer body in that space, you know what I mean. And so it's like because at that point you're like I'm hitting the wall, Like it's like I don't know how to be anybody but myself. So it's like what more do you want from me, you know what I mean? Or finding where you fit

into the puzzle, you know what I mean. And I think that's also why I gravitate I you know, even when it comes to like Ellen or like you, I think I gravitate to building relationships, and I care more about creating relationships with people that have meant something to me in my growing up or the people that influenced me, or that you know, meant something Like I remember being in middle school and like being in my Grandma's christ their three hundred and on the sixth disc change, it

was destiny fulfilled, you know what I mean. So it's like, but having those full circle moments of thinking about the things that made me who I am, it helps to resent to me to know that I have a purpose, and especially now looking at the relationships that I have for so many people that, yeah, at one point, what I would have never imagined is to me is reassurance that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, even when it comes to like meeting Oprah and talking to

Oprah and then like having conversations with like Michelle Obama. You know, I remember being at that place where you're seeing people in textbooks or you're seeing people on MTVVH one or entertainment Tonight, and then before you know it, some years passed by and you're brushing elbows and you're being on the red carpet. You said, something that I

would have never thought. But I understand when you first got call you were excited, but then you said it was one of the most depressing moments because you were kind of thrust in there with no guidance. Right, How has it been for you now? Because me and you have briefly we've been talking about transition and what it's like, how people and rebranding, reinventing yourself because people know you now.

For one thing, how has that been? Ellen Degenerous y'all did y'all's last season last year and we were talking about transition. How has that been for you? Well, you know what's so funny about that? It's one thing I had to realize. And I think it also had a lot to do with the fact that I started while

I was still in college. I think I was still operating as in the mindset of a child, to where everything is laid out for me, and that you know, people are telling me where to go, what to do, this is the time you go to class and stuff like that. And I think at some point I realized that I needed to start transitioning to thinking like an adult and to find that peace in the transitions. So I think one of the best transitions that I made was moving to New York, because that was always the dream.

That's always where I wanted to be. And I hated Los Angeles, you know what I mean. And so I was like, Los Angeles, I've always hated Los Angeles. I just Michelle Michelle out when we saw each other at the World bar Ar Galla. Do you know I had only been in LA for like ten hours. I flew in just for the gala, and I left me too. I was there less than twenty four hours. Listen here, and I said, I literally when I was talking to Trail,

I was like, what time is the gala over? And he was like it was supposed to in round tenth thirty. We know, it was a little bit longer than that. And so then I was like, okay, with my flight gonna be at midnight. And then because we both left together and we both went to the airport, and I was like, I'm out of here. When I go to LA, I want to be in and out. Okay, Oh my gosh. I did not know that, yes, honey, And so I

was like, I gotta get out of here. And so then and the reason why it's like you know this. Los Angeles is very industry heavy. Everybody there practically works in the industry or guy has some connection to it and a lot of who I am, especially when it comes to the art that I make and my comedic. You know, spirit about me is derived from the everyday person. And I was just like, this is not in everyday life. We live the same day every single day. I need seasons.

I want Christmas to feel like Christmas. I want Halloween to feel like Halloween. Like that's what I need. I need some normalcy. And I was like, yeah, I'm out of here. I'm out of here. But I mean the version of who I am here is like night and day to who I was in LA. Are you happier? Oh? I love it? I love it. I see things crystal clear every day. I'm just up and ready to go. I love it. It's just like you moved to I did, but I moved to Atlanta, Georgia. Everybody you know seems

to find their way down here. Life brought me here and it's been good for me. Now alaa New York I would want to live. I'm the Hampton's Girl. Okay, Okay, I think I don't know now I don't know if I want to you do. Come on, I see for me to feel for you. Come on, let's continue to see it for each other. Yea la maybe on the outskirts somewhere, you know the Santa Barbara ye it Cino. Sherman Oaks is getting to live well, you used to live in Sherman Oaks. You used to live in Sherman Oaks.

And I've heard it, as Cha Yang, I believe that. I think people are starting to move out a lot. Yeah, it has changed a lot. Now. You did talk about relationships prior, and just so y'all know, Kaitlin and I were supposed to do this interview a couple months ago. Oh yes, all right, but due to the loss of his very close friend Twitch, we had to postpone it. And you talked about going to La doing Ellen not having guidance. How did the relationship with you and Twitch happened?

And do you think if it wasn't for your relationship with him, you were like, I probably would have just commuted back and forth here. Oh, you know, you're absolutely right. You know so funny about that. It's like that was such a shock to me and it affected me in ways that I didn't even know it was going to affect me. It affected the way that I the way that I approached my work, the way I approached my life, what I thought about what I need to do from

here on out, you know. And I think what was great about having Twitch as far as like us practically being like the only black like you know, talent on the show, is that we were able to support each other in ways that we couldn't have gotten that from anybody else, just off a race itself, you know what

I mean. And I think you know, Bro, you know exactly, but just being able to have and I think also as two people that were figuring out the industry and figuring out what was next, you know, and doing that together, especially because you know, he had been at the show for so long, right and I was new, Like I was there for five years and he was there for fifteen, you know, and so even with me being able to help and tell him, like what the industry is like now,

because you know, when you have that safety net of a show for that long, it's hard to understand. I mean, you could probably understand that of being like in a group for so long and now it's over and then you throw him to the wolf rules. Yeah, and then you got to figure it out, you know, and then it's like you don't know what to do because you've

had this safety net for so long. And then you have to deal now you have to figure out how to stand out on your own and make a name for yourself while you got a whole bunch of people trying to tell you who you should be or what you're supposed to do. You know what I mean, we have lived these same transition. I want you to know that I see you, and I know the hard work that you are doing. I know you're happier now, you know, because you are in New York, But you had some

compounded grief. You have more than one type of grief, okay, grieving the loss of community relationships that were built on the show, and then the actual loss of a life. You know, to someone, can you break down your journey your grief journey for someone that's listening checking in is definitely based in mental health, but we try not to be so heavy with it, but maybe share, you know, your grief journey with us. Yeah, So I think I

felt I felt all of it. Um At first I was in shock, then probably about a couple of days, and I became really really sad about it, to where it's all I thought about all day long, every single day, and it would just replay in my mind over and over and over again. And then I became angry. Then I got mad, you know. But those are the steps of grief, right right then. I then I became very

angry about a lot of things. And then afterwards, after the anger part, I think I got a little bit more insightful, you know, And I think I started to have more direct conversations with him about it all about what was next, what needed to happen next, you know what I mean, and what I could say even I felt this. A couple of weeks ago, I was in Miami for South Beach Food and Wine Festival, but right before, I was very very frustrated, you know, and I was

very frustrated with the industry, with Hollywood. I was at a point where I was like, you know what, Kaitlin, maybe you should just go get a nine to five, because I'm tired of this, you know what I mean. And so I was in this battle and I was talking to somebody about it, and I said, you know what, it probably actually has a lot more to do with

Twitch that I feeled this anger. And I said, because a lot of the conversations that me and Twitch were always surrounded about careers, you know, and making sure that the world outside of these safety nets finds value in us and worth in us, and you know, and that

we can actually do this on our own. And you know, even when I wrote in my thing, because all the headlines were talking about like Ellen's sidekicking stuff like that, and I was just like, this man has a name, you know, And so I wrote it in my post like he was no one's sidekick, you know. I was like he was the glue, he kept it together, you know what I mean. And so and so I think I became in a moment of maybe even more so,

I was in a fighter mode. I was, It's like, I'm gonna make these dreams and aspirations come true, even if I have to do it myself, because I'm tired of sitting at these tables begging and pleading for somebody to see my worth when the analytics are already there, when the proof is already in the pudding. I'm not gonna keep trying to beg you to give me an opportunity. If you won't do it, then I'll just do it myself.

Because it was the power of you were you kind of were starting doing it yourself and some I mean with a Tyler Perry saying it ain't nobody going to invite you to the table, make your own table. Yeah right, And you are so capable of doing all of that, and with that being said, capable of so many things.

How in the world, by the way, thank you for sharing with us your journey, Yes right, the highs the lows, because people think, oh my goss, you you're in LA, You're driving this fancy card, you have this, you're on l you're doing this. You got it. Oh I'm paying. You got YouTube, you got food Network, you got this and that. But it takes some true strength, some grounding because people don't realize what you do go through to maintain.

So thank you for keeping it all the way real and sharing with us a part of your grief journey of course, and um fast forward to everything that you're capable of. How are you on the East Coast NYU and Juilliard? Yeah, those those aren't easy program schools to get into. What made you say I'm I'm headed. I'm

headed to New York. I'm going to NYU and Julie, well, you know, I knew that I wanted to have a talk show one day, and everything that I do, it is important that I know the ins and out so that I come with the tools and what I need to be able to do it to the best of my ability. And so I was like, I was, this is another thing. I'm telling you, All these things just

come to me. I was scrolling through Facebook one day and I saw an ad for an online master's program at NYU, and something told me apply, and so I click the link. I applied to the school. That happened.

The same thing happened with Juliard. I. So the week I've moved to Los Angeles, I had a Juilliard grad School audition for acting and I canceled it because of course I was moving to La So so I was here and I was just like one day I was in the bed, I was watching TV and I said something in my spirit, said Kaylin, going to Juilliard's website

right now. I go to Julliard's website. I see that they have a Juilliard Extension program, which basically allows people to be able to train It's Juilliard without having to do the full degree program. So I so some says, just apply, and I did, and then that's how both of those things happened. Come on, all right, because this is mirroring one of my aspirations and dreams to do. Did you have people to tell you you don't need

to go to school? Yeah? But I mean nobody can really tell me what to do because it almost came out of my mouth, because I mean, you have the natural gift to talk correct, right, which is also why I think the program is really easy for me. It's because a lot of stuff I just already know how to do. But and I knew people were gonna say that, you know. Deray McKesson said the same to me. He was like, why are you going to school? You don't need to go to school, you know what I mean?

And this is another reason why I said, and this really is where the race and the identity comes into it as well. I said, because especially the fact that I'm I'm classified as a digital creator. I said, I don't want anyone to say that I didn't earn my spot. I don't want anyone to be able to say that. I was like, I'm gonna have this paper and I'm gonna also have the knowledge and the tools to be able to like, well, here it is, I hear it, now, I hear you there. But the reason why I'm kind

of like, uh uh huh huh. Sometimes favor, Amen, let you do things a man at an accelerated pace. Correct that it does that, it does, it gets you to the front of the line. Amen. Favor is not understood and it does not look fair, which and I can admit, I can admit, And this wasn't really until I was in industry that I started to somewhat care more about what people thought or what they said. You know, it's

kind of inevitable. It's kind of ineviable, especially when you I think this is what another thing that people don't understand. It's like when you are getting so much feed back and criticism at mass amounts, like we're talking thousands of people being able to have an opinion on you. I think people just think that it's just like, oh, yeah, I wrote this comment and it's one comment, but you're not realizing I'm getting thousands of stuff, you know what I mean. And it's like I can This was more

so early in my career. It was like you could have fifty million good comments and then you see that one bad one. You see that one bad one, and for some reason, you your mind tells you that's the one that's real, that's the true one. Like people can say I love you blah blah blah blah fifty million times and you'd be like, oh, thank you, I love you so much. Somebody got something smart to say or mean to say, and you like, hold on, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.

I see what you're saying. I got questions for you too, but I want you to keep yours. No, you fine, you fine, you fine, come on, ask me some questions. Well, you know, I was, you know, I keep up with you on an everyday basis, and so no, no, no, So like I see, you know, interviews and stuff like that. And one thing that I remember, especially now even still to this day, when you are connected to an entity already and people always ask you questions about everybody else's business.

You know what I mean? Does that get on your nerves? Because it gets on mine. It does. And that's why I was even careful to ask you about twitch. Right, it's different, I know, but it's like, no, be interested in my life. You know, people you know it's be honestly gonna have another baby. It's Kelly gonna have another baby? Are you gonna have a baby? Well what it was it like to what's blue light? Well? What I like? Y'all all right? Like what? But it took me a

year to accept people's natural curiosity and interest. Right, But as far as when I'm doing interviews, I'm coming like, respect me enough to at least make the first half of the interview about me. And if you want to slide in the question that I get every day or Destiny's child ever reunited, I get it, but like respect me about what I'm here to promote, but don't be trying to slide in shade or questions. So unfortunately it comes with it, but they should know better. They should

know better. And that's why I think, you know, with me wanting to do a talk show one day or even having checking in, I feel I'm a safe person to have people on as a guest because I will never be intrusive, you know, and or disrespectful or ask questions or make you feel like I've promoted albums and the radio station you don't play my music. But because I'm a part of Destiny's Child, right, that got me

through the door. Right. And I would ask the radio promo people at my label like are they even playing my record? Well? Why am I going up there? Because they know it is a way to talk about other people in my project. It's so funny that she said that because even when I was talking about like, you know, the people I met, and you slid into Beyonce thing. And I think for me, because I know how excited you are. You've been so publicly vocal about meeting her,

and I person was so happy when you did. Yes, But I think it's also it's like, also, have you watched Swarm Swarm not yet? I have not. It's crazy is it about they say, she the young lady that starts in it. They say it is not about Beyonce or to be high. Oh, it absolutely is. Episode six. It's like Blaton. It's like, oh, yes, okay, but so

but it's so complicated. But I think for me, I am very protective of it um And the reason why I say that is because so I remember when I guess hosted Ellen and I interview Kelly, and I remember reading a lot of the trivia questions beforehand and me being like, no, we are not asking that, you know what I mean. And it was almost had to be a compromise because they always people just they're in they want to know. They feel like that's their only way

in interviews. They would have to ask us because they could just refer to her exactly, but maybe they're like, well, we're not gonna get it out of her, so maybe we gotta get it out of other people, right exactly. That's the whole thing. But it's even like, for instance, like like the Beyonce thing, like me meeting her at web Bro and we walked out together, right, Like I didn't walk up to you and were walking out and being like, girl, guess who I finally met? You know

what I mean? Because it's not necessary. And I also believes that two worlds can exist, you know what I mean, Like like you can have you can admire somebody and and it doesn't have to be always about them, just because you know other people connected to them, you know what I mean. And it's just like why can't it just exist as two separate things? Being like yes, this is the relationship I have with this person. Yeah, they

know this person. But I was never in the point of being like, Michelle, can you tell me be ansked to call me? Can you can you tell to send me so far as like, because that's unnecessary. It's unnecessary, and I think it's as well as me living and working in the industry. At the end of the day, people just want to feel like human beings and people want to be respected as such, you know what I mean.

And I think that's another reason why I had to leave La, because everybody just cared too much about the mess, you know what I mean, or the stuff that didn't matter. It was just like, let's just connect to turn it off, right or to have balance, right, you know. And so the reason why I'm glad that I don't live in LA anymore because it gave me so much anxiety. I always felt like, well, I'm here, I better take a meeting. Yeah right, let him know, let me you know, like

you said, you're almost selling yourself for for opportunities. But I'm so thankful since I've been in Georgia, like so much has come my way without having to have all of these eighty thousand meetings, right, you know. Girls. So crazy about that is that I found that same experience

moving to New York. And I think it's also because, like you know, everybody that does what I do essentially with live in Los Angeles, right, because I was like the rare diamond and the rough out here to where I was doing it at the magnitude that I've been doing it. Then I became an asset. Butchell, the other day, I was going through me and my assistant, We're going through the emails and it was like an invite to a movie premiere, and I was like, why am I

invited to this? Like do y'all like who is sitting at the list? Like, yeah, Kalin would like this, you know what. It would be the most random stuff. But it's like, and I love that people find that I bring that value to it and stuff like that. I really do enjoy that. And it's just like you said, I think I learned that the way that I got into it was just the gateway, you know. Yeah, it was just the door to be able to do everything else that I wanted to do. Yes, there's so much more.

You're not in a box, right, you know, you have many many many lanes to feel and don't let anybody make you feel like you have to stay in one. But you're showing us that you don't because you've got you You were a judge or you're a judge on a cooking show off. Yeah, yeah, I was a judge on Holiday Banking Championship, Gingerbread Showdown. Yeah, Okay, Are you gonna do anything more in that space? Please? Oh? Yes, absolutely? You know I think that's like my bread and butter.

You know, I think I am a judge on which we feel months ago, you know what I mean. So it's like it's like I don't have any plans of stopping or like I just love doing any and everything. I love to be able to just be well round it and conquer it all. You know. I know I want to do Broadway. I know I want to do all that. I'm so excited about that red carpet. Yes, I'm gonna. I'm putting in my bed from my invitation to your first opening night on BROA because I know

you're born for Broadway. You already know a baby. But I do have a question about the podcast that you have with Ricky Lay Yes, no, what a minute now, you aren't old enough to know Ricky Lake. Okay. So I've done Hairspray twice and so that's really where I knew Ricky Lake for. And actually how I ended up on the podcast. I was at brunch with Deray McKesson, who was an executive producer on the podcast Yea and Yes,

Hey Deray. And so we were at brunch and he was like, Oh, Ricky Lake is doing this podcast and they're looking for, you know, young millennial talent to do it with her. And he was like, I think you'd be great fit. Let me know. And so I happened to be going to LA that next week, and so they had already auditioned people, like they have been doing auditions for people, and I was a last minute audition and they asked me to come into the studio and

film and record with Ricky. So I walk in, I meet Ricky and she's like, Okay, you want to try this. I was like, Yeah, let's do it. And I went in there, I watched the clips and me and her just talked and she was obsessed from day from the jump, and she was like this is who I want. Like she hired me on the spot and then that's how the podcast was born. Wow, I love it. I am here for all the I mean, there's so many like tentacles,

you know, as far as all that you can do. Now. Lastly, you have been vocal about love you but you've been very vocal about love in your life. Do you feel

like that like best an important need of yours? Who now see listen you said lastly, But I'm like this got a couple of layers in because all the times where I'm like I'm good, okay, I'm gonna be brutally honest with you, I'm be brutally honest where I am right now, and after the experiences that I've had, especially while working in the industry, I've been like, Nope, don't want it. Nope, I'm better off without it because it's too much, it's too stressful, and I don't have time

to be trying to figure out other folks intentions. I'm a little tired of it, you know what I mean. Okay, So you're saying that's where you are right now, Okay, y'all, I'm not intrusive, IM ain't gonna be nosy. Well, we already kind of you know, past our time. We're gonna have to do a part two. So I am thankful that you came to our show, giving so much hope and inspiration that when people are really who they are, authenticity, people see it and they gravitate to that more than

something contrived and made up. I feel like consumers are way smarter now than they were even twenty years ago. Because twenty years ago you could get away with the publicity stunt, right, But I feel like people smell it, and I feel like people know now this ain't real. You know you're smarter than that, And so thank you. Thank you. A trail blazer, Plin, a trail blazer us here at checking in, we are rooting for you and we are so excited about your new East Coast journey.

Will you check in with us again? Oh? Come all right? I love you. I'll see you later to the move, all right, didn't we have fun? I told y'all, y'all don't be I don't be believing me. At times, I'm so grateful for a connection and relationship with Kalen. I understand transition. I understand the transition that he's making and going through, but I really feel like he's doing well

with his transition. And prayerfully. This conversation was something for anybody else that's going through a job change or a school change, or relationship change, changes in the family, or whatever it is that you're going through that requires change. Change is good, Evolving is good. Deciding to reinvent yourself and what you want to do is good. I just want you to know that it's good. All right. It ain't over until it's good. Just know that you're loved. Hey, hey, hey,

hey hey. If you live in Atlanta or you're like, you know what, I think, I just want to catch a flight, not feelings, you know. I think I want to take a road trip to be in Atlanta on April twenty second for the first Black Effect Podcast Festival. All Right, it's gonna be live podcasts from your favorite shows. I'm excited about the live podcast festival because it's going to be the first one. This festival is the first one,

so I know it's gonna be amazing. And I'm so glad that Charlotte Mayne chose to have it home where I live. I don't know if he did it for me, but I'm just gonna put it out there he did it because of me. Okay, so listen. Come and check me out, Come check me out. I'm gonna be with the girls from Reasonably Shady. There's so many more. We're gonna rock it out. Okay. Tickets are available at black affect dot com. Get your tickets today at black affect

dot com. All Right, I want to see you there, because if I don't, I'm gonna be mad and then I'll have to go get therapy. All right, So just come see your girl. Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.