Checking In w/ Dr. Shairi Turner

Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. What if I told you that there's a free mental health resource that you can text whenever you feel like you need help with your anxiety, depression, or even loneliness. Well, I'll be sharing that in more coming up next on Checking In. I'm really really thrilled about today's episode checking In. It really is about the

Thank you, Michelle.

It's an honor to be here have this conversation with you.

Absolutely absolutely. Do you still have your podcast? Did I hear correctly?

So? I did a podcast.

We have a partnership with Nike, and we did the No Off Season podcast which was about nine episodes talking to different athletes and lead athletes about their mental health journey. And I was able to honor to do some of those interviews. Just hear the incredible stories that they've shared.

That is so amazing. I'm so glad that a company like Nike has something like this because mental health and mental illness can affect everybody. Just because somebody might have had a perfect score, you know, probably does not mean that they have not been dealing with probably the anxiety that it takes to you know, uh.

An a lead athlete, so tremendous stress, strain expectations, right, and then you also deal with the you know, the outward appearance right of having to always be at the top of your game.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, well, thank you so much for sharing you guys. Let me tell you the power of social media. I love that it can connect and if you use it right, relationships can be formed and opportunities can really be in the palm of your hand. I'm sure y'all have heard of the crisis text line and we have SHAIRI as the chief help officer. Can you just give us my mind is blown? First of all, intern is pediatrician. Let's pivot back there first.

It makes it.

The whole story is so I grew up in the Bronx and wanted to be actually the first physician in my family. I went to Stanford as an undergrad and then Case Western really with the aspiration Case Western for medical school, and then I went to Harvard for the Medicine Pediatrics Combined program, really aspiring to treat underserved populations as a primary care physician. And then an experience with a close family friend who died by suicide in prison, someone who I considered family.

You know, back then it.

Was really an obvious cycle of trauma that existed within the family before we really acknowledge the impact of trauma. So that occurred during my first year resident and see and kind of sat in the back of my mind as I went through and finished my residency and then had the opportunity to do a practicum and get my Masters of Public Health from the Harvard School of Public Health.

Trauma back then.

But I then had the opportunity to be the first chief medical director at the Florida Department of Juvenile Justice, which incarcerated many, many black and brown children, and from there just gained an understanding about trauma and adverse childhood experiences and how that interplays with mental health, physical health, the behavioral issues that these children were experiencing because they

But it combines all of my passions, just mental.

Health, trauma, public health because we reached so many people. Yeah, so you know, it's all things coming together. Life is a journey right.

Now, Wow, are you still able to practice as a pediatrician now that you are the chief health Officer?

I do not have time to still practice and see patients at this point.

Ooh, how many patients were upset?

This was a wayte back.

I actually stopped practicing when I moved to Florida because it really public health was a passion for me, and being able to help large groups of people, like in juvenile justice setting like Department of Health, and like our textures, just to touch so many people in their times of need, in their times of pain.

Wow. I asked that I have an uncle who is a doctor, a family practice physician, and he did some type of pivoting where I think he's now more in public health and community health, and so he left your more traditional health system. Yes, And I was like, oh, my gosh, how many patients are probably so sad that you know they can no longer see you. But you know, passion and calling, you must follow it, even when you

You know.

It's easier probably to work in a health system, you know, and making all the money and all this, and then you're like, no, I'm going to serve a demographic that probably gets ignored and turned away way if they don't make a certain type of progress.

Right, No, you're right on target.

I believe that life is a journey and you should look for opportunities to find joy in the work that you do and find passion in the work that you do, and that may mean pivoting several times to get to that place. Right and for me, Crisis text Line we serve people of color, we serve all people, but we've found that our service reaches younger people. So seventy percent of our textures are under the age of twenty four.

That is so good. So what I do know about the crisis text line is obviously twenty four to seven. Yes, it ranges from everything to people can text about anxiety, depression, eating disorders, anything self harming behavior. So is that what makes the crisis text line different from a suicide prevention hotline?

So we view and we operate crisis text line on the continuum. So as you said, anything from a teenager who feels stressed about their homework to someone who is actually physically on the brink of suicide or dying by suicide, we can our volunteers and we've trained over fifty nine thousand volunteers. Our volunteers are trained in active listening, in problem solving, in developing cope and identifying coping strategies, in

So that means it doesn't have to reach a certain level.

So when someone reaches out for their homework, that is prevention. That actually is suicide prevention because we're helping them to develop coping strategies in that moment for that crisis. Right, So whatever they feel in that moment needs to be addressed. We are there to help them, and that is suicide prevention.

And doctor schi Eerie, I feel like too, you are saying something so crucial here when a person, a young teenager reaches out to you, guys because they're stressed about homework. Depending on how you grew up and what culture you grew up in, that could be dismissed. You didn't pay attention, Why didn't you pay attention? Why didn't you blah? And something as stressed from homework that is major and should

And Crisis text Line is prepared right, We're prepared to.

Meet what we're experiencing now, which is a youth mental health epidemic. We are losing children of color, Black, latinx Asian, Native American children of color at rates that exceed their white counterparts. So in this moment, we have a crisis. We have an epidemic. We're losing our children, and Crisis text Line wants to be and is a part of that solution.

What is a thread here when we talk about how we're losing their children? What do you feel like this is all they needed? What is something? Is a communication? A safe place? What are our children needing?

I wish it was as simple as one thing, right, But what we know from our insights and data, so we have a post conversation survey that ever read texture is offered at the end of a text conversation that they can voluntarily and confidentially complete, and it's from that that we're able to gather these insights.

And what these insights have shown us is that music ah music in fact.

For younger people and people in their early twenties is a coping strategy that when asked what helps them, they turn to music, they turn to time with friends, they sleep right.

So these are some of the things that we.

Know our textures are choosing, and we can flip that around and say, when our children are in need, this is not holistically the answer, but these are options to offer when they feel stressed. Right. So looking at our data and insights allows us to offer up some possible supports for children in general. But you know, we know children have been through the pandemic, they've been through you know,

And they have access to social media.

So it's this continuous exposure to all of these factors that I know is we know is impacting our children.

It's funny you should say all of that because I'm about to sound like one of the old ages because when we were growing up, but seriously, docn turn to like, when we were growing up, we didn't have social media that was everything is in your face, from politics to everything. So that when something when there was some unrest. The only way us as children saw it is if we happen to rush Biden, Mama or grandma or grandpa was

Now, You're absolutely right.

We know that a child's brain isn't fully developed until early twenties, and all of the experiences, all of the things that children are seeing have easy access to.

It's affecting their brains. It's affecting the way they process and look at the world.

Right we are with I mean all of these mass shootings, right, we're telling children that the world is not a safe place, that their schools are not a safe place.

They can't you.

Know, they have to opt out of seeing that, right. They have their phones. It's continuous access on the phones, it's continuous twenty four seven news cycles. They actually have to opt out in the way that you or I would opt in if.

We wanted to see what was on the news.

They have to turn it off, shut it off, shut it down, and that's hard to do.

So are you saying that we should not give our children social media to they're in their twenties based on how their brains develop. I'm just gonna say it. When I have children, I'm gonna say Doctor Turner said you cannot have this till till you're twenty five.

You can blame me. So yes and no, because we know there's.

Connection through social media, right, So everything in moderation can be positive or can be negative. So social media, especially during let's say those deeply isolated pandemic years, was a connection for children, right who were otherwise in their homes by themselves oftentimes or just with their families, and social media allowed them to connect with their peers.

So it is not all evil.

It is that adults need to help children understand the parameters, the boundaries, the times that.

You're on and times that you're off, and understanding the.

Impact of consuming what they see over social media and how it frames the world for them.

I mean, I discovered you, doctor Turner, through Miss Vanessa through social media, right, So there are good things to social media. But do you think is there influx of even young people on neeting the Crisis text line because of maybe anxiety or depression being induced by social media.

Well, we don't have that direct connection to say social media caused.

Our textures to text in. What we can.

Say is that we saw in twenty twenty two amongst our textures an increase actually in conversations for the first time about relationships and isolation and loneliness. So it's hard to kind of create that direct correlation, but we know that social media does impact anxiety, depression and mental health issues, and our United in Empathy Report in twenty twenty two makes all of that information available and accessible to the public.

Wow, yes, I definitely see that. How in the last year of the Crisis text line, it was discovered that relationship stress, anxiety, or dysfunction were the top stressors of conversations from people. Yes because people, yes, real people.

People are people, and we know even the Surgeon General's report showed that people were dealing with more loneliness and social disconnect and that could be one of the reasons that they're struggling with relationships. Right, we were isolated, then we had to come back together. It's a new school space, it's a new workplace environment. Everybody's trying to deal and understand how to best communicate and work with each other in this new post pandemic environment.

I will say I love traveling and all that good stuff, but as a person who already likes to stay home the pandemic, for me, when they said we had to lock down, I was.

Like, yeah, right.

And then I've got other people who are more extroverted who are like, no, I've got to get out. I've got to connect with people. But for the people like me who love staying home, I have found it more difficult to want to be out because the pandemic made it okay to stay in and the fact that we can connect through Zoom. For some of us, work didn't stop because we have Zoom right right, But at the same time, it is contributing to loneliness and the dysfunction

All kinds interpersonal right, anything between people. One in three of our conversations discussed the stress and the dysfunction of human relationships. So that can be parent, child, spouse, friends, parent.

Teacher, teacher child.

Anything where you know two individuals are interacting together can cause stress, especially if the interaction has to be by zoom where you don't get that real time experience of being with someone which you know, which can.

Be positive too.

Right.

I think the pandemic did lend itself to those who were introverted, feeling comfortable, sort of being at home. But everybody, the human being, the human element is about some type of connection, and it's hard to fully connect through a screen.

We are in a loneliness epidemic. We're not going to ask how do we be here? Unless this was slowly but surely on the way, the pandemic just kind of accelerated it, I believe because we're all everybody's on their phones, heads are down, so that's starting the lack of connection. As it is, even when I go home and I'm like, okay, y'all not talking about nothing at the dinner table, I'm gonna grab my phone or the phone has been a buffer between conversations that you know you need to have

Yes, those difficult face to face conversations that make relationships real, that make relationships authentic, that ultimately helped to decrease the loneliness because if you're able to get through those difficult conversations and reconnect, that's a relationships, that a relationship that's being rebuilt. Right, That's that's a way to decrease isolation

Now, see this, The rest of this conversation that you and I are having can go two ways, because you already answered a question I was going to ask about, what is a way that we can cope with a loneliness, but some of it is self induced because it's conversation we are afraid to have. Yes, so some of us might be lonely because the next question I have, we're cutting off relationships. I'm just gonna cut you off now, if you are in an abusive relationship by all means

And rightfully so, right difficult conversations don't always make us feel good. Getting to the point of reaching and understanding does feel good, but you've got to go through the rough road to get there, right, and that means looking someone face to face, recognizing the pain that you may have caused or they may have caused you, and talking through it without might I say, getting triggered, right, because we're all bringing past experiences and past relationships to our

All right.

I try to use triggers to mature me. Triggers used to shame. I used to be ashamed of triggers because I'm like, I'm in therapy. Why does this still trigger me? Why does the thought of this situation still trigger me? Why does it hurt me? But we can use it to mature us to do what we need to do

Wanting to be heard, just wanting to be under yes, yes, they want to be heard, they want to know that they're valued, they're seeing, they're heard, they're appreciated.

Because it is it is.

A challenge for us to have the difficult conversations and triggers are like you said, they're really actually growth opportunities times when we can respond differently than we have previously. Right, And I think one of the great things about our volunteers is they can help textures right who are triggered.

To problem solve.

Right, So if a previous interaction didn't go well, let's talk about identifying problem solving skills for this next conversation.

Now does the crisis text line? Because I'm just wondering when does it? Can the same person text over and over? Or do you say, hey, do you refer them to a counselor nine to one one a psychiatric evaluation? How do y'all help someone where you know you could they could really benefit from therapy? Right?

So we are a mental health support and crisis intervention organization and service, So we leave every conversation for a texter, the volunteer provides them a resource, so usually something related to the conversation that they can have on their phone, either to look up, you know, get more information about or a something that will help.

Them with their anxiety.

But we do not make direct referrals to therapists or psychiatrists. But if someone is at imminent risk of suicide, in those just one percent of cases.

So we've had one point.

Three million conversations in twenty twenty two and only one percent of them really require a wellness check where we work with a nine to one one call center because we you know, our clinicians, so our volunteers are supervised by mental health professionals, and the mental health professional who supervised that conversation in conjunction with the volunteer has to determined that this person is really at risk.

And we need to engage nine to one.

One call center for a wellness check to ensure that they are not going to harm themselves.

The Crisis text Line again is a free twenty four to seven mental health support service via text and web chat.

In English and in Spanish.

Come on, what is the Crisis text Line? How can people get to the Crisis text Line?

Yes, anyone can text help or Hello to seven four one seven four one.

To reach us by text.

They can text Ayuda and our Spanish service is bilingual and bicultural, so it's not a translational service. These are all live volunteers English and Spanish speaking, and they are supervised for the Spanish service by bilingual mental health professionals, So it's having a live person on the other end is fundamental to the work that we do.

Seven four one, seven four one, the Crisis Text Price Last text Line, Yeah, and volunteers. It peaked my interest as well. What is the qualification for someone to maybe want a volunteer.

Yes, so our volunteers have to be over the age of eighteen, They fill out an application, they go through background screening, and then they have approximately a thirty hour online self paced training. We have trained fifty nine thousand volunteers in our ten year history and they are trained on, like I said before, active listening, empathy, coping strategies, problem solving, really skills that they have then told us have helped them in their relationships outside of the work that they

Listen better even outside of the work that they do for Crisis Text Line.

So basically, if you lack empathy and patience. Please do not sign up to be a volunteer. Tell us about wait a minute, you text me about this already. No, no, no, you might not.

We think our training is very good right at helping people to develop those skills.

And so it can be developed. Okay, all right, not everyone.

You know, reaching out and helping someone in crisis is not something that everyone feels like they are prepared to do. But for anyone who wants to help someone else, we will give them the skills. We will make sure they are supported so that they can become a volunteer.

It's so good, so good. Thank you so much, y'all. Crisis textline again is twenty four seven. I love what she said. If it is a crisis to you, it is a crisis to us. That is so good. I wanted to ask you some more about trauma and as a pediatrician and an intern, is what does trauma do to the mind?

Right?

So we know now the adverse childhood experiences. Was that sentinel study back in the early nineties that made that connection between mental health issues and sort of key events traumatic events that happened to children between the age of zero and eighteen, And why that is such a significant timeframe is that that's when brain development is happening. That is,

Brain is developing.

So all of the pathways, the stress response is how we view the world. This our safe, our view of our perception of safety. All of those things are formed during those important you know, zero to early twenties when brain development is occurring. We know that, and that significant trauma has actually been shown on MRI and PET scan to impact and to affect the actual physiology of the brain.

Yeah, I ask you that because you've served so many positions, the Deputy Secretary for Health and the interim State Surgeon General for the Florida Department of Health. Y'all, the resume is amazing. A faculty consultant for the National Center for Trauma Informed Care. The reason why I ask about trauma because we're hearing that word so much more, and I'm glad that people are defining what trauma is. Someone that's maybe not really have a lot of training and mental

Right.

Trauma is witnessing the abuse, right.

Witnessing or experiencing, and then how that trauma.

Affects you as an individual. Right. So where two people.

Could have had similar childhood experiences, the response in their bodies, the changes in their bodies can be very different.

But we know.

That the things that I listed out, the abuse and neglect and dysfunction, affect our interpersonal relationships.

It affects our minds.

Right, the average childhood experienced study will say, you know, depression, It can be the normal response of the brain to situations, to traumatic situations. Right, The brain just wants to shut down, slows it down, shut it out, right, or we become and the brain becomes hypervigilant. Right, where everything is a potentially dangerous situation and everybody experiences trauma can experience trauma differently.

We know some of the classic symptoms.

But we're learning more and more about trauma every day and the impact that it has on behavior and mental health and physical health and teenage pregnancy.

I mean the expanse of which you know through which trauma.

Touches people and touches lives, and then intergenerational trauma, right, the epigenetics, the changes in our DNA that can occur due to significant trauma.

She's getting down really in a science of trauma. Sounded like a neuroscientist to me, because then I want to start asking you, Okay, well, neuroplasticity that can be reversed or healed, yay or nay?

Well, you know, we know that children's brains have neuroplasticity, that they are able to compensate it because they are continuing.

To grow, right, continuing to develop.

What's positive are the supports? Right, So the supports around a child who has experienced trauma can help build you know, the.

R word, resilience.

But we can't underestimate the impact that trauma has had. But we have to look at what supports are we able to provide to a child, either inside or outside of their family, because to be honest, right, some of the trauma occurs within our families.

What are the supports.

Available Okay, So going back to the crisis text line, You've got children who are in situations they're experiencing trauma in the home.

What kind of.

Help is there? What should that child do experiencing trauma in the home from a parent?

Right, so they're always able to text crisis text line and again, depending on the conversation, if the child is at risk, then that would be a situation where potentially the mental health professional and the volunteer reach out for a wellness check.

Again, like, if we feel like a child is at risk.

So is the volunteer is placed with the mental health professional maybe on that same text thread or just as needed.

Yes, So let me explain our platform we've created. We created a platform so the texture will text in, the volunteer will be on their laptop, they will respond to that texture, and the supervisor, the mental health professional, our crisis supervisor, will also be able to follow that conversation. Now, the volunteer has been trained, so the volunteer knows how to engage with the texture, but the mental health professional is always there to supervise, provide you answers to questions.

You know, how should I handle this?

If the volunteer asks that and then when the situation is such that the texture has we feel that the texture is at imminent risk of suicide, where they have a thought of suicide, they have.

A means, they have a plan.

Then seamlessly, the mental health professional can support that texture and communicate with the nine to one one call center as needed.

Wow, Crisis text Line y'all is amazing the work doctor shay Erie Turner, Chief health officer of the Crisis text Line y'all. We talked about an array of things, trauma, loneliness, what the pandemic has done with us connecting, Doctor sha Erie. What are resources that you have that we can follow and get.

So please come to our website Crisis Textline dot org. We have resources. We have the web page for those who want to volunteer. We have our United and Empathy Report. We have our Mental Health School Supply Toolkit, which as we approach the beginning of school, we have tools for students, for administrators, for parents. How do you talk about suicide? How do you talk about mental health? How do I tell my parents that I'm strungruging with my mental health?

All of these resources are available on.

Our website on our Mental Health School supply toolkit.

We have issue briefs about.

Trauma, about gun violence and mental health issues, all of the things that can impact mental health. We have our Youth Resilience Report that talks about our coping strategies, the coping strategies that our textures use to help them find ways to cope.

During stress and during crises.

So we just have a plethora of resources on our website. We have web chat and again we have access to Crisis text Line at seven four one seven four one.

That's it.

I will echo again seven four one seven four one. The resources are here. Crisis text line lets you know you are not alone. Doctor Turna just gave us so much stuff for back to school. There are all sorts of things, y'all. You don't have to be by yourself. You are not by yourself. Those voices that are in your head that tell you no one understands what you're going through. That's not true.

That that is not true.

Come on, that is not true, doctor Turner. Thank you so so much, Michelle.

You are amazing. Continue doing the work that you are doing.

Uplifting, yes, advocating.

Thank you, yes, ma'am, y'all.

The Crisis text line is revolutionary, something that you know, I feel like I'm getting to the age where I'm like, man, I wish I had that going up. Everything that doctor Turner discussed about the crisis text line again, it is seven four one seven for one Because even if you're listening right now and you feel stuck, you feel like you don't have anyone to talk to, you feel like someone will not understand, Please go right now to seven four one, seven four one. It is the Crisis text Line.