Unlearning Diet Culture

Music.

And welcome to Change Your Relationship with Food, the podcast hosted by me, Kyla Holley. With many years experience as an eating disorder and bariatric therapist, I know exactly what it takes to help you break free from your diet history and develop a more healthy relationship with food. Please follow this podcast to make sure you don't miss a thing.

Right, this week we have a guest and she is a previous guest that we've invited back because she was so good last time. I would like to welcome Mary Pearson, yet again, author of Weighed Down, Unlearning the Lies Sold to Us About Our Bodies. So welcome back, Mary. Hi, Kyle. I'm happy to be back. Excellent. Now, I know you've, when was the book released, by the way? It was released in early March.

So it's not been out for that many months. But for me, it feels like it's been out for a long time because it's all I'm talking about.

Out well exactly I've seen you on social media you've been out and about promoting the book what sort of events have you gone to in order to do that well I've tried to be as creative as possible because I found that just doing it on my own firstly isn't very fun and second of all is not as engaging with you know the community so I've joined as many festivals where I can have a bookstall. So recently there's been the Pop Fest in Townsville, which is a pop culture festival like Comic-Con.

And my writers group was there with a stall, so they let me tack onto that. And there'll be a Mind, Body, Soul festival coming up in Woodstock outside Townsville.

And so because it's about wellbeing, which relates to the topic of the book, I think that's relevant for me to go there and I've just kind of gone out on my own as well contacted people who do paint and sip events so we can paint an abstract body you know a torso, and I can read the book and there can be free wine and nibbles would be good fun and I've gotten together with some comedian friends of mine to put on a big fun cabaret show to celebrate our bodies and promote the book as well.

So I'm trying to be as fun as possible. And I'm really annoyed that I'm so far away. Otherwise, I could come to all these things. Oh, thank you. I like the idea of the sipping and the reading and the drinking the wine. That sounds brilliant. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that one. I would definitely be in for that.

So as far as the process goes, because I know you've written other things. This isn't your first book, is it? Oh, no. I've got a children's book that I wrote a few years ago. I usually bring it along with me, but I've sold out of that one. So I've got to order some more actually, which is good. That's not a bad problem to have, is it? No, it's wonderful.

So what do you prefer best? Do you like the writing process or do you like it when the job's done, you put it to bed and you're out there promoting it? I like parts of writing. I like starting writing. I like having an idea and then and writing for practically a whole day. But finishing a project is really hard. So that part I loathe. It's really challenging for me to feel like this is enough to say it's finished.

Just like a painter, I suppose. You can see all the flaws or see things that can be changed, but it could go on forever. With promoting the book, I love talking about it.

So that part is great. When people come up and say, walk past my bookstore or see my flyer or just talking about it at an event, they come up and tell me that they are genuinely interested in the topic because maybe they'll say, you know, I had anorexia or my sister or brother suffered from this or went through this or is struggling with this now. And they're genuinely interested and we can have real conversations.

Conversations those are the ones I kind of live for so when that happens it's great but with promoting through social media I have to remind myself to do that because not very business-minded and I wish I had an assistant that's the hardest part. Do eating disorders come up a lot? Yes, I wasn't expecting it to, because I don't say that the book focuses on that. It's only one part of it.

But when I say, you know, it's about body image, it's about our relationship with our bodies and with food, and it talks about diet culture, straight away, somebody will say, oh, you know, I know someone who suffered from this eating disorder, or I really struggled with this. And they jump to that. I don't even have to bring it up. So I found that really interesting. My background as far as my clinical work is in eating disorders and bariatrics.

And when I started this podcast, I very specifically kind of didn't go there because I thought, well, that's a bit deep and a bit specific. We'll kind of generalize it into change your relationship with food because that will encompass everybody. Body because I think most of us that have a body have at various times not been happy with it, especially females, because we're kind of born into this idea that we have to look a certain way.

So I kind of thought it would be a bit of a catch-all that everybody would have had some sort of issue with their relationship with food. And your book's very similar. It doesn't sort of specify eating disorders, it is quite general.

Yeah, I think I had the same goal as you so that more people can relate to it. And I haven't met one person who's been happy with their body or the way they look their whole lives. So I think it's very relatable. But some people, when they see the book or I try to explain to them what it is, they don't relate because they're actually quite caught up in a diet culture belief system. And so with people like that, I don't push it onto them.

Or if they're showing signs of disordered eating or a really unhealthy relationship with food, I'm not there to be their counselor and I'm definitely not trying to convert them on the spot. So those moments are a a bit awkward. But in general, people have been happy just to talk about it either as a whole and just say, that's an amazing idea. You should take it to high schools or you should take it to this group or that group, or they'll share that something specific like a diagnosis.

And what sort of feedback have you had in general? Has it all been positive? It's mostly been positive. People, usually, I think we are excited to see somebody doing something or believing in something and standing up for that. So I usually get a lot of kudos and pats on the back, which is lovely, or genuine interest in the book, which is what I'm wanting. I just want to sell it to people who actually want to read it and hopefully not feel so alone in what what they're experiencing.

But I have had moments where either the person hasn't understood what I've been trying to say the book is about, or they completely don't believe in the idea I'm trying to sell.

So they would maybe tell me about this time they lost so much weight and they told me how how they are now how much they weigh now i'm not asking them by the way yeah they'll tell me they've lost this incredible amount of weight and this is how they are now and it's and their life is so much better and i don't want to rain on their parade or undermine the work they've put in but maybe it's not the right timing for them for to read my book and and that's fine or I wish

I had an hour with them with two comfy chairs and cups of tea to find out more details about is it really a wonderful life exactly exactly yeah and I get I mean because I. When I was thinking what questions to ask you today I came up with that question have you experienced negativity about positivity because sometimes you know there is this sort of negative vibe that goes through these conversations where people are saying that it's promoting obesity and we shouldn't accept how

our bodies are because otherwise you know where are we going to get our motivation from and it's a really difficult conversation to have because you're not going to change people's minds in five minutes about that stuff no oh if i could what a power to have I know but I have had awkward moments like that where I was talking to a wonderful wonderfully lovely woman and I explained the purpose behind the book and the material inside

it and she shared with me her frustration on seeing a video of Taylor Swift and she's got a bit of a belly and the comments were people thought oh maybe she's pregnant yeah and then And more comments saying, why can't she just have a belly? You know, and she got frustrated at those comments. Yes. And I said, oh, we're on two different sides of this. And we're probably not going to see eye to eye and that's okay. But we were in a library and I wasn't going to get on my soapbox there.

Yeah. I was going to say, not the place to start shouting and things like that. It is difficult though, because I mean, I'm very much like you in that I am very opposed to dieting.

And the weird thing is I'm not opposed to weight loss but I'm opposed to dieting and that sounds weird and I'll clarify it in that if people want to change their bodies if they want to take themselves off to the gym or they feel that I get a lot of people come to see me that have joint pain and things like that and they know that if they did lose a little bit of weight that would ease their joint pain there's lots of different medical reasons why that can be so and I'm not

opposed to weight loss because I work in bariatrics and it would be very hypocritical of me to be opposed to it. What I'm opposed to is the methods that people use to try and achieve it, especially when they're methods that I know don't work long term. And sometimes people come to me for weight loss, put me on a diet, they say, tell me what to do and I'll do it. And then I have to backtrack and go, well, that's really not what I'm about.

And I have had people in the past that have said, well, then you're no good to me. That's it. That's the end of the relationship. And they come for one session and then they disappear. But I've also had a lot of success with the people that stay as well and say, teach me another way. If I'm not living on a diet, what can I do? And it's more about looking at, what do you think dieting will achieve?

So in other words, looking at the end result and saying, you know if you lost this perceived amount of weight you think you ought to lose.

What will happen what will life be like and trying to achieve the things that they actually want and they can be things like you know more respect in the workplace or finding someone to fall in love with or you know there can be many different things they're trying to achieve they just believe that weight loss is the vehicle to get there and of course it isn't oh wow yes i was speaking to a friend recently about something similar with we are comfortable in waiting saying

when i lose this weight then i can do this because there's there's hope then and there's a life that could exist and we haven't screwed it up yet so but it's just the weight holding us back so waiting is easy confronting it and taking one step forward in the direction of the life you want is scary yeah what if I mean how long do we wait what if we're waiting forever hoping that our bodies will change and and you know that that was something

really interesting that came out in the book as well you know what if the body we have now is the best it will ever be how would that change your life what would you do differently yes I think hearing words like that is what flicked a switch in, in me, because I was waiting. I definitely was waiting for so many things. And I said, okay. And in six months, cause I could definitely lose weight in six months. Then I'll do this. And in six months I'll do that. And then it turns into 12 months.

And then I got real sick of myself and started hearing people speaking my language saying, well, how about you just do it now or try now. And put the size of your body to the side for a second, which was really, really hard to do. I think it's hard for a lot of people to do, but that's why I like my book so much is because I feel like people ask me, you know, why did you write it?

And I keep coming up with more and more creative answers, but the real answer is it's a love letter to me when I was 14.

I wish I had this then. Yeah. That's amazing. So you probably would be in the right market to aim this at teenagers. I think so. I think I was a little bit worried because one of the authors, Nellie, is a stripper. So I'm worried that schools would be adverse to that. But it's not into the detail of the job. It's about what it does for her body image and her quality of life and her confidence.

And I think that would be fine. So I think that's my next chapter is to approach education, which would be great.

Yeah. Do you see a wage down too coming on in the future? Oh my gosh. Every time I meet somebody and they do a double take on the book and do the backwards walk and then share a story, I wish I brought my notepad because this is, I'll just put this in the next book. I feel like the next book will be other people's stories, not so much myself. So, but if, with that permission, of course, yeah, I'd love to write a way down too. That would be great. Way down again. Way down again. Still way down.

We could think of a million titles. I'll come up with something clever. But yeah, it might have to happen. And I do admire anybody that has written a book.

It's something, I've written a very floppy book, but it's sort of a, it's a journal mainly but then every week there's something else to think about with our relationship with food so I feel a bit of a cheat calling it a book even though it is actually book form because I kind of think well it's not literature you know it's not lots and lots of words it's just little snippets of exercises to do once a week that sort of thing and in between that there's this journal.

But I admire anyone that sat down with a blank piece of paper and actually thought, you know what, I'm going to put my wisdoms down on this piece of paper. It's great that you saw it through. Thank you. I think it is hard because when you read your own writing, there's self-doubt comes in, the imposter syndrome comes in, going, oh, what do I know? I'm not an expert in this. But then you've got to check yourself and know that you've got enough experience in your personal life.

And through my professional work, I think I had enough. And I think I'd read your book as well. I hope that these podcasts can become a book one day too. I think that would be funny and engaging. That sounds a bit like Sex and the City, where you do all those little kind of columns and then they turn them into a book, something like that. I could do that. Who knows? Now, look, I've started to try and make this a bit more fun because quite often I talk to people about quite serious subjects.

And every time I've got a guest on now, I'm adding a little bit of a fun question at the end, which is for you to describe your favourite meal and who you would share that favourite meal with. Could be anyone, dead or alive. Okay. My favourite, it's so hard to pick a favourite. That's why I asked the question. I think the food I get the most excited about is Indian curries.

Because I love being at a table where all these different colorful dishes are presented in front of you and you're excited to try every single one. And it's a food that makes me sweat, which I don't mind. And there's not one bit of it which I don't like or shove to the side. It's all delicious to me. And I probably could come up with someone more interesting or famous probably.

Probably, but at the moment, seeing as I mentioned my 14-year-old self, I think I'd probably like to, it would freak her out, but I'd like to have dinner with her and tell her to enjoy the naan bread and have as much as she likes. Wow, that's a fantastic answer. Oh, thank you. That is, because, yeah, it would be interesting to go back and speak to our previous selves.

And I wonder what they would make of us. oh yes i i might disappoint her a little bit because she was very ambitious she wanted to change the world but also i think the fact that i've kind of got it together or i'm honest when i when i don't she'd probably i i think she'd like me at least would get on yeah fantastic, see i i think well the younger me was quite boring so i think she'd actually quite like me now I think I'm less boring less conventional less

of a people pleaser and I think that would be a nice thing to see for me to have seen when I was younger the fact that I didn't just fit into everybody's mold and do what was expected of me forever oh that yes I think that would be a relief for her to see. That's how I'm imagining it. That would be quite a beautiful image.

Yeah, I think it's useful for all of us to sort of think about, you know, that sometimes if we sat down to dinner with our, whatever, our 14-year-old self, our 18-year-old self, what advice would we give them? What would they make of us? Who knows? She'd probably say I'm doing too much of the painting and sipping. But hopefully, I think, I'm hoping she'd be proud of me. And I think your younger self will be proud of you as well if you waved the book in her face.

Thank you. I hope so. I think so. And then to build on that, we could imagine sitting down with ourselves in 20 years. And I think us in 20 years would be quite proud of us too and probably tell us to breathe more and slow down a bit. So I try to imagine what my future self would say, because I really hope that she lives in a nice, quiet neighborhood and only works four days a week. That's the dream. I hope in 20 years time I'm not working at all.

I hope not. I'm a lot older than you, so that's my dream is retirement and taking off and traveling, which is my passion.

Perfect. Now, look, thank you so much for joining me yet again. You're always a pleasure to speak to. And I know I got really good feedback from the last time you were on the podcast. People loved you, which is one of the reasons I've got you back again. I will put a link in the show notes, in the episode notes, obviously with a link to your book like I did last time. And I do encourage everybody to give it a look.

Is there a Kindle version of it as well, or is it just the actual book book? There is a... An ebook on Amazon. So I don't have a Kindle, so I'm not sure can that be accessed through Kindle? Okay. I think you can if it's on Amazon. Yeah. But anyway, a lot of people prefer their books that way, that's all. So it'll be a good thing to kind of search for. And of course, I love any feedback and people's stories, which I have been getting through social media.

So that's been lovely. So if anybody has anything to share with me, I welcome it.

Fantastic well thanks again mary it's been a pleasure thank you tyler thank you so much for your company today i would also love it if you could follow this podcast it really does mean a lot to me also we have a six-week online change your relationship with food course that you can and take. Just visit www.acfeb.com and click on the ACFEB and me courses link. There's also a journal and a workbook available on Amazon and you'll find that link in our bio.

I really hope you can join me again next week. Goodbye. Music.