Knowing Me Before Finding You: Body Image and Dating

Music. And welcome to Change Your Relationship with Food, the podcast hosted by me, Kyla Holley.

With many years' experience as an eating disorder and bariatric therapist, I know exactly what it takes to help you break free from your diet history and develop a more healthy relationship with food. Please follow this podcast to make sure you don't miss a thing. This week, I have a guest. Her name is Lena Ehrenberg, and she's here to talk about a subject which I have so little experience in, it's not funny, which is kind of dating.

Dating and body image and how that all gels together in the modern world. Lina's evolution started when she was lost in the south of France, which isn't a bad place to be lost, to be honest. It was the first time in her life she realized she had the power to choose how her story would turn out. She did luckily find her way home and eventually joined a year-long coaching program because she wanted all her relationships to be better, including the one she had with herself.

Well, welcome, Lena, to change your relationship with food. And we're not really going to talk about food today. Now, you are a certified life coach and you have a big niche. And that niche is helping women who want to get married and have children figure out who to date. Now, wow, that's a hell of a niche. How did you find that niche? Or how did it find you? Well, first of all, thanks so much, Kyla. I really appreciate being here with you and your listeners.

So yeah, it found me. It definitely was part of the overall evolution. And I do coach women of all ages. I have done that for very many years. But what I've been finding is that over time, a lot of my clients have fallen into this desire to be married and have children. And I'm meeting more and more women who are telling me that.

And what's really lovely and what I look at is really part of my overall life evolution is that I, since the time I was in my early teens, I have always sought out older women. I've just really been attracted to their wisdom and their moxie. And I really enjoyed being friends with older women. And so I've always had this just panoply of women in my life of all ages.

And so now that I look at the last couple of years at the women who are finding me and some are clients and some are finding me for friendship as well. It's such a really beautiful full circle moment for me. So surely if women explicitly, if their plan is they want to get married and have children, I would presume they fall into a certain age bracket to have evolved to that stage and also have that sense of panic that maybe time's running out. Well, definitely.

One thing that we know definitely is that women are having children older than perhaps a few years ago might have been thought feasible. And they're doing it beautifully. And so that's really wonderful. And what is true for my clients is that they're living the rest of their lives. They have wonderful friends and they have wonderful relationships with their families and they travel and they work. They're very dedicated to their careers.

And so they have all of those things already. And they are now really thinking about how to enrich their lives in this other way. And so it's really, really a beautiful kind of just evolution for them as well to be at this stage and really making the commitment to making this what they want to focus on now going forward.

Yeah. And I think you do have to, I mean, there's a lot of cliches, I suppose, around this, but you do really have to establish who you are before you can authentically share yourself with somebody else. And I think a lot of people who marry young, and I'm one of them, to be honest, I'm married at 24, which I look back at now and I just think that's young. But I mean, 30, how old are we now? I'm trying to tot it up. We just had a wedding anniversary.

33 years later, we're still married. So it worked out good. But I mean, if my daughter had decided at 24 to marry, I would have been a bit horrified because you're not fully developed yet at that age. You haven't done your thing. It's true. It's really true. And I think that's why this is so good for the women who are making this choice right now.

And what's you said something that is so key to my philosophy and how I coach, which is we start with you, you listeners who might be thinking about wanting to date. Now, whether or not you want to be married, you know, everyone is different. And some people do want that. And some people would just like to be dating and be more social.

But no matter what your ultimate desire is for your life, I think that we can all agree that we want to be engaging with and dating really quality people who are really bringing something to us and to whom we can bring value and goodness. And so there's a lot of conversation in the world that is about dating. And it's really, to me, focusing on your potential partner. What's your list? What are you looking for in this person?

Do they like you? Are they attracted to you? A lot of the focus is on the other person. And so I really always start with my clients putting the spotlight on them. And really for each woman to really get to know herself because you are fully formed. You're already fully formed at this point in your life. And sometimes we just have to be reminded of what we already know inside us.

And so we begin our work with, each of my clients becoming really, really grounded in herself and her values and what brings her joy and what she envisions for herself and all of that. And it's only from there can she then put the pieces together of who might my best partner be? Who might my most aligned match be? Who has the qualities and values to complement mine? And it's beautiful.

So if we start with ourselves, and I'll bring this back to body image, because I suppose this is the connection to what I do, the work that I do.

If we do start with ourselves, and we're fundamentally not happy with ourselves to begin with, I know you're not a therapist as such, But where do you go with that in the context of body image where people might feel that nobody will want me because of how they perceive their looks to be? Where do you go with that one? How do you start? Well, there are a few different ways. I'll just tell you what I've heard from clients, and we can maybe talk about that, and I would love your perspective on it.

But there are some women who take in the general societal messaging about what men want. And so if that's what someone is thinking about in terms of herself, then we definitely, definitely get into the work of coaching about that mindset. And it's really to help her understand that there's not one answer for all men, right? What did they say? I think they said there's about 8 billion people on the planet right now. And so I do very simple math. That means there's about 4 billion men.

And I can't imagine that 4 billion men all think exactly the same way. Yes. And so that would be our entree into doing that. Right. There are other women who do, as you say, think that it's more about them personally, and they don't think that they are very attractive. And that makes me really sad. I just have to say that, first of all, because every one of us is so unique, and we are all so complete and whole in ourselves.

And so I have had clients and I've coached them about those thoughts about themselves and about really digging into what else goes to make them up. What else are you? Who are you? Aside from your wrapper, what's the inside, right? And so that's been very, very helpful to my clients as well.

And the third suggestion about this in body image is something that I know I've heard a couple of your podcasts, and I know that you can speak to this really eloquently, but there are women who lose their weight or being very consumed about their weight kind of as the buffer between themselves and getting out into the world.

Right and engaging in their lives and you know there are some women who won't go to the beach because they refuse to get into a bathing suit they won't allow pictures to be taken of themselves they won't want to maybe go on a family vacation because of their weight and again it's you know they're keeping themselves from engaging with all different aspects of their lives and and in other relationships because of what they perceive as their body image.

And again, that's really something for you to kind of really talk about. And do you think weight is the most common insecurity? I think it is very common. I've heard weight specifically, but I've also heard just a general sense that if a man didn't seem particularly interested in a woman, that she would just have this general sense that was because of how she looked, whatever that meant to her.

And again, because each time a client of mine goes on a date, they know that the first thing I'm going to do when I speak to them the next time is ask them, what are the things that you liked? What are the things that you really enjoyed? Things about him? What did you notice about your date? Or even about the location? Where were you? He chose it. What did that say to you about what he chose? Because I want to really help women get into the mindset of looking for the good.

And I call it the green flags, because there's a lot of conversation out in the world right now about red flags. And while it is important to be aware and to keep ourselves safe at all times, what is true is that if you are only looking for what is something that will scare you off from someone, you can't make a connection because we can't connect by looking to possibly have to separate ourselves from someone.

So in order to make connections and to start to develop a relationship with someone, you have to be looking for what's good and what gives you the go sign that you would want to see this person again. And as part of that process, I will always, you know, if a woman says to me, well, I don't think he was very interested. I don't think he really liked the way I looked. I'll say to her, what made you think that really? Because I want to know, did he do something? Did he say something?

Or is it just a thought that she's very familiar with thinking?

Yeah. Yeah. And also I suppose self-sabotage, you know, the fact that if you don't feel somehow worthy of that relationship or that connection with someone you're going to sabotage you're going to put something in the way and blame it on that factor whether it's your body or whether it's them or something that wasn't right about that date right but to be very I mean as you say to look for green flags you have to be very open to be able to do that you have to be quite vulnerable to

try and find the best in the situation and ignore maybe that gut feeling that's telling you to protect yourself. So I think a lot of work has to be done. Well, I think that a lot of women these days have done a lot of that work. And what I find is that I really have not met. Client of mine who I thought had to do that kind of deep work on herself. As you said, I'm not a therapist.

If there was someone who engaged with me in a conversation and perhaps wanted to work with me, that it became clear to me that she really did have some things holding her back that she would benefit by working through. I would absolutely always, you know, remind her that I'm not a therapist. And if she felt that she would get benefit from therapy, I would be very supportive of that. But coaching really isn't, as you know, coaching isn't therapy.

And I don't want anyone to be confused about that at all. I'm talking about just, it's kind of what's out there in society. The conversations that people have so matter-of-factly about, oh, You know, men are looking for this type of woman or, well, gosh, I don't think that I'm particularly someone. No. That's the other thing that I really do work so hard. The work is mine, actually.

You just made me think of this. The work is mine. I don't find that a woman needs to work so much on herself necessarily, but the work is mine to assure her that she is unique, she is whole, she is complete. And there are people in this world who are looking for her just as she is looking for her right partner. Her partner is looking for her. And I want to help her be able to go out into the dating world with the confidence of knowing who she is and owning that.

And it's really been so beautiful and worked so beautifully for so many, so many women. And it's, you know, I acted for very many years. And the difference oftentimes between a poor performance and a really great performance is specificity. How specific and how unique was that actor in the choices that they made for their character. Because oftentimes when an actor isn't making specific choices and they just kind of have a general idea of who that character is, it's not very compelling.

And so I bring that background to my coaching as well. And I talk a lot about specificity with my clients. I talk a lot about them really knowing and loving and liking who they are. Because they are unique and they are not looking for just any partner. They are not looking to just be dating. And I can't imagine that really anyone would be right now. And so we talk a lot about that, their uniqueness. And we also talk a lot about behavior.

And behavior is something that I have found this is something that I learned for myself. You mentioned that I had joined a year-long coaching program. And I did that not only because I wanted to have better relationships with men and with dating and romantic relationships, but I wanted all my relationships to be better.

And I knew that in order for all of my relationships to get better, I would really have to work first and foremost with the relationship I had with myself and make that stronger. And I have been in the past very, let me put it this way. I've been a lot of different sizes in clothing in my life. Me too. Yeah. I know that, right? And I think so many of us have that experience. And so when I got into this program, I also had this sense that I probably should lose some weight.

I was bringing a lot of the general chatter along with me. And when I was really able to settle in to a period of time where I could really think about myself, look at myself, really find out more and build a lovely friendship. With myself, I was able to see that the things that I was afraid of, that I had been using my weight to hide, they really didn't even exist. What I learned for me is that over the course of time, I had picked up a lot of behaviors.

I was doing a lot of things that were not mine to do. I was saying things that were not mine to say. I was acting in ways that were just not integral to me. And those were the things that I really, really needed to let go of in order for me to create the kinds of relationships that I wanted to create. Growing up and being in various, you know, we pick up a lot from our peers and from, you know, people were just around day to day. And I used to speak. I was not as kind, really.

I would say whatever came to my thought. And I've learned that I really, that's not me. That's not in me. And so I would be talking to a man and I would just say whatever came to my mind, whether it was particularly kind or not. And so it was those kinds of mismatches that I really needed to start to look at and to understand and to change for myself.

So that's also why I have such a deep conviction that the women who seek me out, the women who really want to change their experiences of dating right now, It's not that there's something in them that they need to do this deep work about in order to become this different person.

It's just, you know what? I'm willing to bet that there's something that you're doing or interacting in some way that's just not working for you and it's not presenting you the way you really are. And we can get a handle on that. And, and everything changes. It's 180 degree turn. Yeah. I mean, it's authenticity, isn't it? If you're actually confident and strong enough as a person and you do know yourself, you can be authentic. Yes. I think if I were to date, God forbid, that would be awful.

But if for some reason I had to date again it would be a completely different experience than it was what 35 plus years ago because I think when you're younger and certainly I can only speak from my own experience but you are willing to morph into whatever you think you have to be to attract a mate yes you know even down to I remember when I met my husband we've got very different tastes in music and i kind of lessened my taste i thought he likes this type of music i should open myself

up to discovering what and it's blues i hate the blues but he loves it and you know it's miserable music so from my point of view i have to embrace this whereas i'm an 80s pop girl you know that's what i love whereas now forget it i'll i'll openly just say this is what i like this is what I don't like. But in the context of me seeking a mate, which I was years ago, I was willing to bend in order to be whatever I thought was required.

I wouldn't do that again. Yeah. So I think I'd be horrific to date, but anyway. No, I think, but that's how my clients date, right? Now, I think that you'd be a phenomenal dater. I really do. Because you have had the life experience to understand that. And that's exactly what I'm talking about, which is knowing yourself so completely and so thoroughly that you can't break, right? You can't break. And, you know, I just have this vision.

What do they say about willow trees that, you know, they bend, they're so pliable, but they don't break. And it's really, really lovely. And it's really, really good for a relationship, when partners are willing to share things that each of them enjoys. But the idea, it does come to us very early and very young because I know I went through that also.

The idea that we have to decide that we like exactly what someone else likes or that we're willing to do that now instead of doing whatever it is that we like. And that's the part that women are understanding now. We don't have to give it all over to a partner in order to be in a relationship. Because, you know, we talk a lot about not only the women's values and their qualities and how they express them, but talking about who would be a good complement to them as a partner.

We talk about essential qualities that a man has and his qualities that express his values. And we don't have to all share the same exact values. But when we have many in common, that's wonderful.

And one of my core values that I'm looking for in a partner is always someone who. Who is open, available, and willing to learn from me just as much as I am open, available, and willing to learn from them. And that means neither of us is totally giving up ourselves for the other. But we're, I mean, what a great opportunity to be able to open up a whole new world for someone. I mean, I don't know much about the blues. I can tell you, I can tell you. I don't want to. Okay.

Okay. Fair enough. I've had men do love music. That's what I find. Men love music. And so I've learned a lot about music from dating different men and different types of music. And so that's a way that my world has opened up because I was very specific. I, you know, I acted for many years and I sang and I did musical theater. And so that tended towards the type of music that I listened to very often.

And I was perhaps into particular artists when I was a teenager, but I really wasn't into any particular type of music. And so I've been taken to some concerts that I found very puzzling. Puzzling is a great word. I'm going to use that. Yes, I found it very puzzling, but I listened and I appreciated that he enjoyed that. And that was it. I mean, you know, I was open to it, but I certainly wasn't in a rush to go back.

But I always walk away with the thought, wow, I had no idea that that that something like that was in the world. And I think that's what's really exciting. When you can be with someone who is showing you parts of the world that you've never seen before and is willing to see the world through your eyes. It's just, I don't know what to call it. It's like going on a trip around the world and staying in town.

It's just, wow, tell me more. And that makes me want to learn more and more and more about what's out there and who's out there and what other things might I find that I could really enjoy. I have a question and I'm just formulating this in my mind of how to ask it, but it just sort of hit me while we were talking. Physical attraction. Now, I have a type. I've realized over the years that the men that I find attractive, weirdly enough, kind of look like my husband.

And my daughter's pointed this out. She's like, you know, he looks like dad, right? Well, actually, yeah, he does a little bit. So I clearly have a type. And my presumption is we kind of all have a type. So do you meet women who have a physical type that they're after? And And how do you deal with that? Should we run with that and just accept that physical attraction is a thing and we do have a type? Or should we expand our horizons a little bit?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. All of that. So it's kind of interesting. I love what you said because you refer to it as your type like two or three times. But then you said you refer to it as a physical type. So the first thing that's interesting to me that I've noticed is that when people talk about their type, they're talking about physical type, but they don't say that.

So I think that's one way that we can start to, if you're someone who is listening to this and you are looking to create some changes in your dating life, maybe you're not necessarily, as I said earlier, wanting to get married, and that's great. But maybe you'd like to change it up and start to date a little more seriously or, you know, date different types of people. So I want to invite you first to expand what you define as type.

And if you've been thinking about your type as purely physical, start to say that. Use both words. My physical type is this. This is the kind of, man, these are the looks in someone that I'm attracted to. And it makes sense, Kyla, right? Because that's the first thing we see is someone's physical type. Yeah. When I'm helping a client and we're talking about that, there are a few different things about that that are true in that moment.

What clients have shared with me is, I very definitely am attracted to this type of man. Okay, and have you dated men who look like that? And they'll say yes. And I'll say, are you still dating them? And they'll say, no, currently. And then I'll say, okay, now it's time for us to expand our definition of type. And one thing that I have learned over time is that my type of man right now is a man of great character. A man who is... You don't find that out till later, do you?

Which is why part two of this is that... We have to be open and willing to engage with and go on dates with men who are not matching our current physical type. And you know, when you think about it, and not all of my clients use apps or go online.

A lot of my clients are meeting men in a whole bunch of different ways, you know, more in-person ways. I know personally for me, I have been asked out at the gas station. I was literally asked out in traffic. It's a very LA. It's called an LA meet cute. I was trying to merge and to get into this, onto this highway. And I don't want to scare anybody. And I was not being, this was not unsafe. The traffic was crawling because there was a light up ahead.

So all of this was being done very very slowly no one was in danger but i was inching in and i looked up and i kind of waved to the man in the suv next to me and i motioned can i get in in front of you and he rolled down his window and he said give me your number and i'll let you in in front of me and i said wow what how am i going to give you my my not he said just yell it tell me your number.

And I was like, okay, who knows? So I yelled my number and I thought he's not even going to hear all the numbers. And by the time I got into the lane, he was calling me. And so, yeah, so we talked on the phone and we did go out. So, I mean, we never know where we're going to meet someone. Good men are everywhere. That's something else that I've learned. Good men are absolutely everywhere.

So, but I will say that, you know, for women who are using apps, we do know that images are very prominent and you know you see all the pictures and you scroll through all the pictures and all of that but what is also prominent is the messaging and so that's where you can find out so much about someone. I, you know, really suggest to people that they, you know, once you're in the messaging phase, stay in the messaging. Don't go back and look at the pictures.

You know, you don't need to refresh yourself for that about what he looks like. Stay in it and really focus on what he's saying and what he's sharing and how you feel while you're interacting. Stay in that and then see, I think there is something about this person and I would like to learn more

and go forward from there rather than thinking he doesn't look like what I want. So that's a no. And I know it's very counterintuitive for a lot of people, but I also am a very firm believer that, you know, a lot of the looking at a particular physical type is also tied to the idea that you should meet everybody in person so that you know if there's chemistry.

And honestly if you're looking for different types of relationships longer lasting relationships more committed and loving and respectful relationships than you might have been having in the past that it's much more important to focus on character than chemistry okay because that was going to be my next question is how important is chemistry because yeah you you've brought it up and I I don't know I'm not experienced in this I suppose but but you are you are because,

you met your husband and he's your type, He is, but the chemistry is still there, which I don't know that I could be without that. I don't know. Here's the thing about that. I didn't say that we have to give up chemistry. I just think we have to reprioritize it. Right. Because it's just the initial reaction. It's just literally the chemicals, right?

Now, how often, you know, and first, before I go on to the next thought, I just want to pause and celebrate you that for you to say that the chemistry is, it's still there. And I mean, it's just amazing. And you just celebrated 33 years. And so good for you. Good for you. Yeah. Oh, I've been very lucky. Yeah, absolutely. But you've also. He was a find. He was a find and he found you and you found him. But look, in 33 years, you're not just riding on your luck in 33 years, right?

You both have committed to each other and committed to the relationship and keeping it fresh and wanting to have that kind of relationship with each other. And that's what it takes because there are a lot of people who are in relationships with people who they had instant chemistry with, but they're not recommitting to their relationship every day. They're not doing the, putting the effort in to, you know, keep this, you know, there are two people and the relationship becomes a third being.

And that, that takes nurturing. Our relationships, in order to keep them healthy and, and good and respectful and loving, that takes commitment and it takes energy and it takes work on, on both parties' parts.

And it's worth saying as well that we are very different people than we were when we met and got together. But very, again, lucky in that instead of growing in different directions, and we have actually grown in different directions, we both developed as people, but whatever it is that sticks us together has stayed, which again has been very lucky. But that's a good example, I suppose, of the fact that you do.

The part of me that I was willing to give up in the beginning to find my mate, and I'm no longer willing to do that, he's traveled with me throughout my personal development, which has worked out brilliantly. But you are always going to revert to type. You can only fake it for so long.

And then you have to be you. You have to be authentic. and I think if you fake it too much at the beginning and if you bend too much to be what someone wants you to be then when you do revert to type and you do try and reclaim yourself I think that's quite often when relationships break down because quite rightly people look at each other and go well this isn't what I signed up for I signed up for that guy or that woman and this isn't what I got in the end because that

person wasn't being authentic in the beginning. That's the point. Yes, it's not about you, you know, wanting to commit only to that physical type or whatever you're measuring type by, but that's the point. You can't pretend to be someone else that you're not. So it's actually from the other side. Like if I were, you know, trying to date someone who was looking for someone very different than me, a totally different type of woman.

And I'm not even talking again, I'm not even talking about physically, because honestly, if, you know, if he wasn't interested in my physical type, he wouldn't be dating me in the first place. But if I were really trying to bend myself and become what that person wanted, like I did all the way through my 20s and so much through my 30s, that's, yes, that's absolutely correct. That eventually you do break. And I remember...

Gosh, you're reminding me, I was dating someone and I kept thinking to myself. Maybe if I could just smile more, I think maybe if I could just smile more, he might like me more and be kinder to me because he was not being very kind to me. And I remember, and I did this three or four times, I could go two days. I could go two days thinking, okay, I can keep smiling and And, you know, and I can keep talking like this and, and we, you know, and, and that'll make it okay.

But after two days, I was exhausted because truthfully, as you just pointed out, that's not the answer. The answer is not to try to make ourselves something else for someone. The answer is to know ourselves so thoroughly and to know who we see. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I just want to finish up bringing it back to the physical because for a lot of people that listen to this show, they do have weight concerns. They have concerns about their body.

I work in bariatrics where people lose huge amounts of weight. And what we know in bariatrics is quite often if a couple meet and one of them loses a profound amount of weight, there's a 75% chance of that relationship not surviving the weight loss. And that can be for a variety of reasons. But one of the reasons is that the person who hasn't lost the weight simply preferred a larger partner.

So for anybody out there listening to this, thinking that they have to be something that they're not either physically or. Behaviorally or psychologically or any sort of changes they feel that they have to make to suit somebody else, I'm sure you would me up on this one, Lena. There is somebody out there for everybody. There's somebody looking for you regardless of the packaging that you come in. Exactly. And you said that so

eloquently, of course, because that is what you do. And I totally agree. And that is what I was trying to put forward about what other type. When you talk about your type of person, what else is involved in that besides how someone looks? Because if my type, look, I could tell you what my physical type is. And still to this day, if someone walked past me, I would look, I would, you know, give a once over probably.

But if I started to engage with that person and he wasn't my character type, that has now taken precedence for me to my physical type. And if he wasn't the type of person with a complimentary sense of humor to mine, that has taken priority over my physical type. And so thank you for giving me another opportunity to perhaps be more succinct about that. That's really what I meant. I'm not suggesting that you're ever going to totally forget your inherent interest.

But if you do want to have different types of relationships than you've had in the past, then it would really help you to expand your sense of type. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I really hope there's somebody out there just like you doing the men, making men feel this good as well and saying to men, look at yourself and what unique qualities you have. Because it isn't a man-woman thing. I know we've said that a lot during this episode.

And obviously, it's important to point out that relationships come in all shapes and sizes. And some women are looking for women. Some men are looking for men. Some men are looking for women that used to be men. I don't know. But whatever they're looking for, there's a place for everybody out there. Absolutely.

Now, look, you've been a beautiful guest. I could literally talk all morning because it's interesting. I've got my dating years are long ago, but I find the whole subject of people and attraction and personal relationships just fascinating. So it's something that we could do a three-hour podcast about. Good, let's. I was going to say, but we won't today. People have places to go. I'm sure when they're listening to this, they're going, come on, I've got to get to work.

Anyway, thank you so much for joining me today. Now, how can people get hold of you? What's the best way? The best way, two ways. the best way is through my website, lenaerenberg.com. And that's L-E-N-A-E-H-R-E-N-B-E-R-G.com. And if you go to my website, you will find a free gift.

If you are someone who wants to change your experience of dating, and if you are looking for a committed relationship, a marriage, there's a guide there with three essentials for you to change your experience in dating. And the other way to find me, if you'd like to drop me a DM on Instagram, I am at havemorelove. And I'd love to chat with you.

Beautiful. Well, look, we will, for anyone that didn't catch it or didn't have a pen and paper, I'm going to put those details in the episode notes so that you can catch up with Lena if you want to thank you once again for being my guest today and thank you everybody out there for giving us a listen this week thank you thanks so much kyla no problem okay i'll catch up with you next week thanks for listening today bye-bye don't forget

to check the links in the episode notes to our six-week change your relationship with food course and to the change your relationship with Food workbook and journal, which is available on Amazon. Music.