Episode 60: I Wanna Be Cool Like Rachel Zoe

next forty five minutes. Rachel Zoe is our guest today, and I'm singing because I'm so excited. I have always been a fan of hers, and I watched the reality show and we're singing, and I'm happy. I loved her reality show. I've never been a style maven. I've never known how to dress myself. It's not really been my thing. Fashion is not my life. But I have such respect for people whose it is, and so whenever she was like styling people for award shows and continues to do,

I just loved it. She's a designer, a businesswoman and author, a mother, and an incredible wife to Roger. They've been married for twenty five years or whatever it is. We'll get into all of that. I'm really excited to have her on the show today. Yeah, I know, looking forward to it. I just anyone that's been able to juggle everything that she has, entrepreneur, family, so many ideas. Just I love it. I'm so intrigued by people that actually, you know, make it all come true. And uh, I

can't wait to talk to her. Never I've never met her. I've never met her either, and she just seems like she's like that girl's girl you know that you want to just grab a cocktail with. So coming up next, Rachel Zone. Invitation. Yeah, invitation is the highest form of flattery, and I feel like not to be like one of those creepos, but like I've been doing that with you for years now, like give me a chunky gold necklace, all of the things. No, it's true, it's really nice

to meet you. I'm Charissa and before No, but I feel like I know you from Sam Phipps. Um you know Sammy? Well? Yeah, so I inherited her in my marriage and she was friends with my husband. And yes,

I hear stories about you all the time. It seems like your guys this group of friends like Kate Hudson and with the Master Girls, Like, you guys have this rad girl group, which is in a way it feels like we all know you because you guys are always together and posting in different things, but you have like when I've met Sarah, it's like you guys or Kate husband when I used to work at Extra, I was going through a breakup and she like immediately was like,

give me your cell phone. We're going out tonight. We're getting drinks. Like She's like, you guys just have this awesome network of girls. Where does that come from? Like where's the inception? Like who is the o G that started this group? I mean I know you worked with them, and that's an old o G. You guys have been friends forever. Then you add Eric and all the flowers everything, and all the flowers um well, to be very honest,

it was actually like like different parts. So Sarah Foster and Kid Hudson I met literally basically on like the same day in and around so Sam I've literally been friends with since before we lived in l A. So we were like having the best New York New York sample and Sam up to move here to l A. God probably like two thousand maybe right, And then I was working here so much that I eventually, like in two thousand and three, I was like, Babe, we have

no kids, were not tied to anything. We're workaholics. Like ninety percent of my work is in l A now, so like, let's just try it. If you don't like it, you know, New York is not going anywhere. So we

moved out here. But while I was doing that, I was actually staying at the it used to be Learned Mattage Now it's another hotel in Beverly Hills, and I was staying there and I was styling, and I remember going up to this one suite for jewelry around Oscar time and literally tripped over Kate and like I was wearing like five pieces of jewelry, and Kate was like,

what are you wearing? And like we started just talking about jewelry, and we were such kind of style soulmates that we just started like I love what you're wearing. A love it, and then we became friends. But what ended up happening is I was taking so it was when she was doing almost Famous, and I ended up going to her house to bring her this Versacci dress that she ended up wearing to the Oscars, and Sarah opened the door. Now now we got a party, ladies

and gentlemen. Sarah was so young, and she was so hot, not that she she's actually as hot today as she was when I met her, when she was like she must have been. Honestly, she must have been like nineteen. I don't even know eight, I have no idea. But she's wearing cut off dnim shorts, a white tank top and ugs, and she answers the door. She's like on the phone, and it's almost like the rest was history. Like I just got really close to Sarah. I got

really close with Kate. Kate and I started working together, and then obviously, like I became close with Aaron, her sister, you know what I mean. And then it just kind of in sam because she was in l A and I was here. We just were always together. And then ironically, like my oldest and her youngest ended up being in kindergarten together, and then now neither of us actually go to that school anymore. And then she moved to Manhattan Beach and I moved to Brentwood, and you know, and

here we are. But my relationship with Sam will always be one. That's like, if I don't see her for six months or a year, we picked up exactly where we left off. She's just the greatest person mine too. When I go away for six months to work football and then I, you know, re I do re entry to be like, hey, I'm back, She'll be like, Okay, why don't we catching up one? But you just go

to the same crap, you know. Yeah, girl, girlfriends and Air and I have been friends for a hundred years from our sports background because we met doing the same job and just girlfriends are so important. And you are the queen though of long lasting relationship as a gal that's on her second marriage. The fact that you and Roger have been together since what right is that together? So we've been together. We just celebrated this year this past August, thirty years together. I mean, and Mary, what

is the yeah, what is help? What is the key? You know, it's weird. We really do recognize that it's a bit of like a freak of nature thing, Like we do understand it's not normal at all. Like I actually think it's almost more normal to not stay together that long, Like if you actually think about it, you guys, to be with one person for life is a very surreal concept right now, of course, and the true edition of marriage, Like that's actually what it's supposed to be.

And if you asked me, allegedly, um, these days not so much, but you know, I would say that a couple of things, first and foremost, And I know it sounds so obvious, but first and foremost trust. I have never once in thirty years questioned what he's doing when he's not with me, never once, And I think that

has so much to do with it. Um. Also, when I was very young and I was building my career and running around with like male actors and supermodels and all these living this crazy life, and he was an investment banker, not as crazy. I remember his friends being like, how do you let her do that? Like how do you just let her go and be with these guys

and travel around the world. And Roger always had this approach of like if they can get her, they can have her, you know, and are a concept that people were like huh, because all his friends were like these jealous guys that would like never let their girls out of their sight whatever, and he was like, I don't understand that, like, if there's a guy that can get you, he can absolutely have you because it's it don't because it's not gonna happen. And also like at that point,

you don't want to be with me, right right. That was more of his concept and it was so uh it made so much sense, you know, and so and it really worked, you know, like it really worked because I did whatever and I never I never straight I never thought about it. And if you asked me my whole life, I would have said, I'm not the marrying type. I'm never gonna be able to be with what. I was boy crazy, just like my kids are girl crazy. I love boys. I had million boyfriends. I was never alone.

The day before I met him, I had just gotten out of like my umpteenth serious relationship, and I was like, I'm gonna go find myself. I'm gonna be alone. I don't want to date anyone for at least a year. I don't even want to meet a guy. Met him the next day. I've been with him thirty years. So here I am. It makes sense? What well? It works? It works for us. The name of your And that's where we started in honestly, because to your point. It's what every single person we meet is, like what how

you work together your parent together? I don't understand how that even works. And you know the truth is, I mean we're very much like Lucy and Ricky. I mean we bicker, but like our recovery time is what ten seconds? And I think I think a lot of it too. I think there's a big misconception about marriage. You hear people say very often like when they associate marriage with like um part of their life, they go, well, marriage

is hard. Marriage is is really hard, And I think rog nited that are always like that's where you're actually wrong, like like well, and I always say, it's so funny. It's like everything else in life is hard. Like we're the easy part, Like your husband and wife. That should be where you come home and you're like, it's like your safe person, it's your easy let your guard down, just be you. Like that should be the thing that's the most effortless thing in your life. It should never

be the challenge. The minute it's the challenge, I think that's where you have to like take a step back because this is your forever right, So not that it doesn't have like ups and downs, because of course it does any relationship, does you know, I just don't think it should be. It's very Aaron's parents are still together, My parents are still together. So I'm just always in awe and envious of of that. So kudos to you. It should never be overlooked because it is, especially in

the world that you guys live in. You know, to have that anchor that keeps you and you know you said it. You let you be you and you let be him. So it's a beautiful, beautiful relationship. Just observing from let me ask because I am so intrigued and I was dying to just talk to you with how much you juggle, with how much you have your hands in and my gosh, fashion social media, I mean on

Bravo back in the day. Um now, wallpaper, all of the I mean I was sending lengths of it to my sister today and I was like, this is so good for you for your apartment and to give you some life. You know who else is in wallpaper and did my house in Montana? Samantha Phipps and wallpaper. She changes your life. But before we get to that, I have to ask you, Rachel, with you involved in so much and I don't know how you operate in terms of I have so many ideas and I have so

many things. I am trying really hard in my marriage almost of five years. Who um to stay present and you where your feet are and give him the time he needs, especially when I'm not during my season. How do you do that with your marriage with your kids?

What do you do? Well? Okay, so here's the thing. Um. You know, we just launched our second venture fund, and I think, you know, my biggest thing that I've become really obsessed with over the last year or two is really having my hands in a lot of different businesses and really like consulting, advising, investing, UM. And I think all the other things like you mentioned the wallpaper and fragrance and all these other things. I'm it's weird. I'm

a creative person. I'm definitely a creative person. I've been my whole life before I even knew it. And I think when you're a creative person, there's this um kind of like this ticking thing in your body that like explodes if you're not stimulated right, and you have to like project that creativity on everything you do. And so, for example, I'm just gonna say, like my office, right, I must remerch and restyle these shelves like twice a week.

Like I'll just be on the phone with someone and stand up and start like re styling books and things. So you're dying, And so I think, I think to that extent, I think my career for me, I've never planned any of it, not my books. Everything I ever said no to I did. I was like, oh god, no, I'd never write a book on any read books? Who was time? You know? And and you know and TV shows like I'm never letting anyone in my life like

all those things. But I think there's a time and a place, and I've definitely always been governed by my gut instinct for things. And when opportunities come, it's not always the right time. It's not always the right Um, people that you want to do business with, And I think those things kind of pull you into things now becoming a mom and and much later in life. By the way, Um, I'm olderier and I we Roger and I were together. Brace yourself. When I tell people this

out loud, it sounds crazy. We were together for eighteen years before we had children. But I remember you got and again because your life was out there the idea with your show, it was weird, not weird, that's not it was well, no, it was just you were you were just this like dynamo and continue to be right with like the business side and Aaron and I have talked about this for a long time. When is the right time to have kids or how it's going to

disrupt my business? And so then when you you know, to think now with your children, like who knew what your life looked like before those boys? Right? Because now there the whole world, and so when is that right time to shift up and what made it change for you guys and decide like, hey, we need to do this and we want to do this now time, really time, because you know, it's a weird thing because I was this weird hybrid of a completely career obsessed, perfectionist workaholic

from my whole adult life. Those types of people are not typically people that you say, oh, she's going to be a mom, she needs to be a mom, you know. But weirdly, since I was sixteen fifteen, I was always called like mom's oh or you know, I was always the mom. I was always the one taking care of everybody. I was always the one, you know, just I was the shoulder they cried on. I was the ear I

was at this. It was all those things. And then when all my friends started having children, it was funny because I'd be the one adult that was invited to kid's birthdays that had no kids, and I would be the one out there playing with kids while all the parents were like drinking wine in an amazing, flowing down designer gown as she's out there, like seriously, as I was definitely a nails I was, definitely, but it was weird.

So this I was very, very conflicted because I knew in my soul that I had to be a mother because I loved children. I loved them. What I couldn't solve for was how in God's name I was going to have time to do that. And I was like, how I don't even have time to shower. I sleep four hours a night, you know what I mean? Like

I'm living the most ridiculous life. And then, as you may have seen on the show, I got very sick in two thousand and nine and I got vertigo that was debilitating for about a year, and ultimately, like your body sometimes makes decisions and just says, you know what, guess what, just kidding you can't live like this anymore? And um, you know, I would attribute it to say I was probably collapsing of sorts from exhaustion, you know.

And then Roger and I one day we were just like, oh god, I'm getting old, Like agree kind of need to do this, and what do we do? You know, it was sort of like how do I get a baby? It was sort of like, right, how do I do this? We started around and I got pregnant. Honestly, It's funny. I was pregnant for nine weeks before I even realized I was pregnant because we weren't trying. We weren't not trying,

but weren't trying. Yeah, I was just working. And then I just remember finding out I was pregnant in the summer of two thousand and ten, and I just remember, like, you know, those pregnancy tests you take them and it takes like, you know, it takes like a minute to see what color, what what what plus sing or whatever, and there's like four of them in a box. Girls, I took four them. They took five seconds to come up with the answer. It was like you were strong.

There was no. Yeah, that's funny, my luck. I'd be like, is that another line? Is it not a line? Like? So there was no. It looks crooked. So but the truth is, you guys, I remember taking this hospital tour when I was like eight and a half months pregnant, and I remember at Cedars and I left the hospital and I got in the car and I go, nope, can't do it, and round really because what are you doing that we're doing because you want to see section. I go, no, no, I can't do that. I'm freaking out,

like I don't don't. I don't know how to give birth. He's like, nobody knows how to give birth. I'm like, you could say a word about this, You're just gonna stand there like looking at me. And you know, I was. I was in a full panic, like I could have stayed pregnant for like five years, like that was fine. I was just like not ready. And then all of a sudden, like sky was in my hands and it was almost like my life just went upside down and backwards with love and I froze for like a year.

I couldn't get my head out of like him, you know, in terms of I'm not leaving it. I don't think I left him for like three years, like, and then I had my second one. I just took him everywhere, honestly, um, and you know, after Caius, like it's weird. By the second one, you're sort of like, Okay, I can do both. I can. I got this, you know. But I what I did in all honestly, I think because I was an older mom and I kind of had already, I felt my career set up, so to speak. I was

able to bring my kids to work. Your businesses, yes, but then in my company, six girls had babies the same time as me, and I immediately opened a nursery in my office because I was like, no way, I'm bringing my baby and they're not bringing their babies. So everyone had their babies. It was the cutest thing in the whole. It was the best. Honestly, it was the best. And we'll do the best, boss then, because now you're creating, well, now you're creating a work environment that is family. And

now they're invested because you're invested. And that's the whole thing that Aaron and I are learning, you know, with her very successful clothing line, and I started a team apparel, Rachel. It's not like you by anyways. I have a I have an NFL Like you know what I'm saying, it's team apparel, but I know, but it's Rachel's over. That's so cool, you know, it's freaking questions for you. I mean,

Jesus wait soon, yeah yeah, yeah, so I was. I know, we only have so much time with you and we have this is like that thing where it's like you want like hours with you because the entrepreneur brain of Aaron and I like want to just dive into yours because you've been so successful in all of your businesses. So what did you specifically want to ask her? Oh? I just think you know the god I have, Rachel,

I have a lot of questions. Um no, So number one on the thing, please do I think just reinventing yourself I mean, and also just staying relevant. You've been unbelievable. I mean, you've been a household name forever. And thank you for having babies later in your life. You've made it great for forty three year olds like me to be acceptable and be like, funk off, she's done it, leave me alone, you know. So, But I guess just staying relevant and reinvent yourself and your brand. Some of

the best pieces of advice for that. Okay, So it's a great question, honestly because because I find that, Look, I don't even have a nanny, and I don't say that to be a martyr. I say it because I want to raise my kids and I and I'm not saying people shouldn't have nanny's. I do have someone that helps me after school for like two hours so she can help the boys with homeworkers, parents doing school. That

I just don't advise it. It's just like your kids don't want you to be that teacher, and you don't want to be that teacher. We all learned that in the pandemic. No, and so I think that, um, the staying relevant question is the best question. I'm gonna tell you why because people are always like, well, I mean, you don't have to do this anymore, like you don't have to go to this stuff anymore, you don't have

to like did it up? And it's not true. You actually do still have to appear at things that are important. It's different than when you're in your twenties and thirties, where you go to everything right, you go to everything. There's no edit, Like, if I don't go to this, I'm not gonna get hired. If I don't show my face at this, if I don't support this person, blah

blah blah blah blah. The thing is for me, I have this like mental list, okay, And it's sort of like, Okay, is this important for you for your job, for your career, for your like is this an important business decision for you? To show up at X whatever it is, like doing a shoot, showing up at it worked dinner, whatever that is? Okay?

Does it check that box? Is it's something that is supporting a friend, whether that's a close designer that's in from Paris, whether it's one of your girlfriends, Okay, if it's someone super important in your life, you need to show up and support, right. And I think that the other box, of course, would it be that it's paying you a lot of money to show up somewhere, right,

Because that's the biggest struggle as a parent. If I'm gonna miss bath and bedtime and dinner with my kids, it has to check up one of those boxes, if not all. And if it doesn't check those boxes, I'm home. Now, the pandemic was a gift in the sense of I think for working parents that feel that constant pull between working kids working kids and have to travel a lot. To not leave my kids for like sixteen months. For me, because I happened to be obsessed with them, it was

the greatest gift. Honestly, I'm schooling them and like getting to see everything. When I say homeschooling, I was not their teacher. We were lucky enough to have a teacher that was transformative and really just an incredible experience. But obviously wishing it wasn't a global pandemic, but just that time was really beautiful and really special. But I think staying relevant is a really hard task because you need to keep your name strong because ultimately that affects everything

else right, and that affects the things. You get hired for the amount and you get paid for things the amount of people want you to do things right. And it's funny because there's those moments where you're like so over myself, like who's gonna hire me to do anything? You know, I'm so think on my name, I fit like who the hell? And then like I'll get offered some great thing that is like, and I'm like, why do they want that? You're like because your brand selves,

you know. I'm like, okay, cool, Like you don't know that sometimes when you're in your own head, right. I bought the Rachel Zoe lamp the other day. I didn't even know it was your lamp. I was like, this lamp is dope. And then I looked at of course it's hers. No, I'm not, kind of I didn't I put I put it in it's a nurse Jamie's spat actually, because I was helping her we do she was doing a one over in Brentwood. You love that space, it's

so gorgeous. Help design it. Yeah, And but I was like, Jamie, we're not doing and you know Jamie with her taste, and I can say this lovingly, but Jamie kind of get you know what I mean? You know what I mean? She kind of throws some stuff in there. I'm like, oh no, Jame, this is a bad look. We had to we had to work. But anyway, so your lamp was I was like, this is gorgeous. And be so happy to hear that because it's just I don't know,

it's just fun. Well, no, but it's because it's you, but it's your brain and whether it's a lamp, whether it's you know either even with Curator, which is another thing I want to get into so good, like the I'm not I know what I am in life and I can do the home design stuff, but like clothing and that's stylish and in terms of you know, getting myself dressed, I'm lazy. I'm t shirt chains, maybe some accessories. But yeah, we're both a little boyish in that regard.

I think that's sexy as hell. Like I love that. I love all of your like I look at your hands and I'm like those jewelries. And the next like where did your love of fashion? And then the second part of that is Curator allowing people like Aaron and I to make it dummy proof, like have a coolness m h exactly, So sort of like your love of the fashion and then how you're able to givet that

with something like Curator. So the thing is with so funny, I'm looking to my right because I took these earrings off because I thought that I was going to put a headset on. I just want you to see these I had to see are these are ones in the box? I want to go in your closet. Oh my gosh, look at that next time casual virtual and I'll take you into the closet. But my love you, guys. Truthfully,

I was born with it. I'd love to say I picked it up somewhere, but my mother is kind of like this Jewish list Taylor vibe and like she like rolls out of bed with like full face and makeup and jewelry and like my sister. It's funny. My mother's like I gave birth to you, guys the same way I would throw you in my jewelry closet. One would organize it and one would take everything. Who do you

think I was? So? I think I was. I think it really is a little bit of d n A. I do um, But I really have always been in love with anything that's beautiful, like whatever it is, whether it's a home, a room, a tree, a person like it did it. I'm just attracted to um, things that are just beautiful and whatever that is, but all kinds of beauty, that's the thing. It's like, I I don't know, like I could just stare at a sunrise and take eight photos of it and are you okay? I'm like,

it's just so amazing. It's like, seriously, are you okay? So I don't know. I just curator was created. I'm gonna say it the right right, So sorry, didn't I want to say, because you're like your fans curator, Okay, Curator, You're like, no, it's it's UM. But it's it's French for UM to curate, and basically it is. I've been hired throughout my entire career to curate for individuals, for brands,

for different company, ease, for homes, whatever it is. It was always some form of curation, and cure Tour was created so that I could style as many women as possible, and it was sort of my mission with this business to be able to curate for all ways and be able to touch them in some way, because that was the thing over the last twenty plus years that people would be like, I wish you could style me. What would you wear of this? What do you like this season?

Let's set it up and this is sort of my accessible answer to Okay, I love this shape bag for the season. I love a big gold statement necklace for for this season. I'm obsessed with this new face oil or lip product or whatever it is, but now way even more than that. So that's a quarterly that's every season, and as a member, you get it to liver to

your door every season, right. But beyond that, we launched the Shot and the shop is kind of the answer to all of your sort of like shopping dreams, whether for yourself or for anyone in your life to buy gifts or anything like that. And it's things that I carry, um but at exclusive discounts. And you get all these different things by coming into our community and being a member, and it's just really fun. It's just a fun kind

of community to be a part of. And we're launching all these different things we're going to start doing like I'm going to start doing like in conversations and things like that. So as a member, you get to ask me all these fun questions and it's a no brainer. I mean, my head and those blowing up, it's a no brainer. And it's a it's like you do care or just yes for you to put set aside for me to be like, this is how you smell magical,

this is how you look dewey. This is a fabulous little new purse that we're going to wear this season. These are the hoops. This is that I don't even want to say if it's a scarf for recorchief because I don't want to sound stand out in front of you. So God, it's a no brainer. Good for you, I'm getting. I just know that I bought seven Massny blankets because you used to always have them, and I was like, I want to be cool like Rachel, and she loves Massoni.

Do you see there you go, Rachel. I need to know right now what your favorite candle is at your house and what your favorite scent is, because you look like someone to me that you walk into your house and it's so soothing and fabulous and smells great. And I would grab your candle just like I did at my boss's house when we went to his fancy dinner, and I'd probably take a whiff of you and be like, what are you wearing? Because I feel like you're smells

so great in person? What are you? Two things? So I have a bunch, but I would say my favorites. Okay, I have a lot of Tom Forward fragrance that I love. Sante Brush will be probably my forever favorite. I also love sole Blanc. I love a lot, a lot of his fragrances. Um, I am in the middle. This is just a little teaser, but I'm about to finalize my premier fragrance. My name on it, like that will be my my like real like bathe myself in it every day.

That's like you men, that's coming out soon. Candles okay, So Dipte, I'm obsessed with the labo. Um. I also like Barrato, but b y r D have the handwashing. Yes, I have some sort of coolness. But dipteeth teeth with the fig is that that is like it's just heaven. It's like you walk into the room and it's like there's just something about fig. It's not even like I like fix. It's just somehow in a candle and like

in a room spray and things like that. The fig it's like figda or something, and it's I gotta try that because I was going for the black, the black candle whatever that was, like the babies or whatever. I have that one of my front entrance way as well. I have them smells like a guy because guess who's a guy. I like that one. My Montana said, so gorgeous. You guys are so gorgeous and you're trying to play off this hole like I'm like, dude, tomboy and I'm

so we are, but you're not. I mean you maybe, but you don't look like it. Not that you're very sweet. So you've done so many differences really well, well we're kind of by the nature of our job, we're kind of like become more into that. Maybe, Like I'd be really embarrassed right now. So my kids, you guys will get a laugh about. This is gonna make you What are we doing? So I was texting with the soccer

coach because I had a full panic. My kids have this like two hour soccer class with this amazing like English coach that I love. Here. Um, he's like straight out of Manchester and um, and I'm like, yeah, I'm super cute anyway, So I what I'm just saying, Um, aren't all soccer players cute? Like I just yeah, they have a thing. It's the europe It's the European thing. It is like once they start talking, I'm like okay, and the three different languages right into that exactly. Um. Anyway,

so I did him. I go, wait, is there anything I have to get besides cleats. I'm like, aren't there the things that go that they thing thingies? And he's like shin guards. I'm like yep, and he's like l O L. I'm like, do you think less of me? He's like a little okay, I don't tell you. I'm really I'm trying. I'm a boy mom kind of by like life mistake. I mean, it's the happiest thing that ever happened. But I'm thinking out as I go. So

the equipment thing, you guys, I'm confused. I got the wrong cleats the first time for like for I think her for some other material. You're doing great. I'd be annoyed if you knew our world too and knew how to make your You can't be great at everything, Rachel really learning the sports mom thing as I go. Well, I saw in your Instagram they were cheering for the rams that you guys have that we're at a super Bowl party because that was Hey, they like what we do?

How about this. We'll help you out with the NFL side of things. You help us out with everything else. Know being a every great in our house. You can come to my office do the back like you did with your books. I love it. Yes, I'm here for you. I feel like we're like a great trio. I love one thing. We have a lot of listener to Rachel who like younger females, and I always asking us, um professional advice, like how to get into the industry, like

in a male dominated industry, all those things. What's one piece of really an a male dominated industry? We're in it. Yeah, I travel with for emails every single week. I'm the only female on the crew. It's fine. I have a great time, which is exactly why your husband needs to be secure too. Exactly. So going back to that previous point about rog you know, being confident, Um, what's the one piece of advice that you could that you wish you could go back and tell your younger son. I

love that. Well, there's a lot um. There's a lot um. I would say, don't be scared to use your voice, especially in a male dominated world. And I ed it sometimes and I think in those days, if you used it as a female, you were perceived as difficult. Bit right, bitch, you're difficult. But now you'd be called a badass right

now or men get called badass. When we would say, like if there was a lot of things I had to protect in my career and um, like whether it was clients or designers or you know, just just there were just a lot of decision There was a lot of like decision making that was made primarily by men um and so I would say that I would also say, you know, in what I've done throughout my career and probably similar to what you guys do, there was zero line between my personal and professional life and my work

was my life. So that ran into events, dinners, you know, social life, whatever, whatever it was. There was no a vibe and inevitably what would happen was that people that I you know, hired or trusted, you know, they really there's people that don't have your back and people that do really crush you in the process. And I think that that's a lesson that you learn young, you know, because you're doe ide and you're excited and you're giving ten percent to everything you do, which I do now,

but I'm much more apprehensive. Like I think what it is is, you know, wisdom comes with experience, right, and I think for me, the greatest wisdom is you have to really know the signs of a person that is not a good person um and I think for me

that was the biggest learning. And I you know, I've been hurt in all different parts of my career, and you know, now you go at things with this really good lens and an even better instinct for people, and you see the red flags and you see the warning signs early on, and you know where to kind of like you know, stop something. And I think that's really

for me. And I say that to young people all the time, because I think the hardest part about being young is that your naive and that comes with being young, Like it's almost the best thing about being young. It's like you have your whole life in front of you and you just assume the best of everybody. And at least I did, and I've always been that way. And

you don't want to become um. You don't want to become that sort of like curmudge in person that like you don't don't you don't and it's and it's hard, and you don't you know, you don't want to become a hater. You don't want to become cynical. I'm just not that person. But I do really look at things differently and people differently that are going to be close to me in my world beyond work, um and people that you let a on your kids and into your you know, I want to go sit in your like kitchen.

I feel like because you said mama zohe and I want to like have a chicouterie board and glasses of wine and just smell your candles and just talk to you. I think you're dream You were so nurturing. I'm obsessed. Like I feel a calmness with you. I really do. You're so cute, I we The reason that I'm laughing is because this weekend full disclosure, I had one of the best nights of my life. What happened for his story?

Like does it compare with like the Valentino Anniversary weekend in Rome and thousand nine or like you were there too? Amazing but like different different, But I threw a eleventh birthday party for my older son, which I can't believe it's eleven, well not yet, MARCHIONI second is his real birthday, but he did it with a friend of his it shares the same birthday. And we turned my backyard into a full on dance party. And that kid, we're not going to dance and they danced for four hours straight.

We were like we were like dropping it like it's hot, like it's crazy, and we were like the embarrassing parents on the dance floor and we all had too much to drink. It was so fun to watch these kids just let go after two years of how mask and just have fun and be kids. And you know, but the CHARCOONERI board thing. Everyone was like, oh, just order pizza, get sliders. And what was I doing? Like pre party?

I am mental? I like nine kinds of like different salamis cheeses and eight kinds of crackers, unlaying grapes and like Marcona almonds, and I was just it had to be the prettiest. I don't even know what that is. I don't God, yeah, girl, it's a I'm a terrible entertainer that way. I need to I need some tips from you. But what I think is so sweet rich to about what you said is you just talked about

your eleven year old's birthday and there wasn't video games. No, but there wasn't video games, there wasn't iPhones, there wasn't i iPads. It was something free, which was dancing. Like that's an awesome departure from the world. You know, like Aaron, I don't have children, but I would be so terrified to raise children in this world for a number of different reasons, but all the social influences and like, how do you keep those babies protected but still keep their

eyes wide open? Do you know what it's parenting? It really is, because I have so many friends that are like, oh, I don't know, I can't raise my child in New York City. I don't. I don't know. I can't I mean, raising your kids in l A. I don't know. But I have to tell you, with the exception of maybe like Minnesota or like I mean, you hear that almost everywhere, like it's it's not where. It's the parenting. Your children come out a certain way and the rest is up

to you. And when you meet bullies, it's the parents. It's not the kid, you know what I mean. You can't blame kids, that's the thing. And ultimately, you just have two parent really hard. You just do. You got a mom hard and you know it's it does change everything. And I think people that say it doesn't it's not it's not true. At least for me. It does change everything, and it changes the way you look at life, and

it changes the way you look at everything. But I guess what I would say is because I think you asked me early on Aaron about being an older mother or you know, I had sky think at thirty eight and I think at full alty one who want to say something something in and around there. And I was very blessed that I had them naturally. It's only now that I actually realized they were actual medical miracles, that

I had them naturally. I don't think I realized it in the moment, because I don't think I felt that age, to be honest, and I don't think I realized that it was older until someone was like, oh, you have a geriatric pregnancy, which is a terrible Why go to doctor five? You gotta go get you. It's it's horrible, but I get it. They're trying to take care of you. But yeah, that's a fun one to hear too. I was like, really, do I have Do I have a walker thirty five? Yeah? Yeah, Oh it's so much. That's

another series. Oh boy, um, you're a dream. And I think I think you guys, you do you and don't let anyone judge do what feels right. There's no right or wrong having kids, not having them, having them at whatever age, it doesn't actually matter. You just have to do what feels right to you and don't follow other people's rule books. That doesn't work, you know. And you had that signature look of your their hair. As a person who's changed my hair seven hundred and fifty five times,

you I went short, I went longer. Oh my god, you have that signature look and it's cute. It's you have, as Aaron said, a warmth about you. I feel you make everyone feel like they know you. But it's authentic and kind and I look up to you so much your business, but also now and knowing what a great friend you are because you know your your friend group is an indication of who you are as a person, and when you have girlfriends for a long time, it

means you're doing something right as well. So thank you so so much for sharing your time with us. I can't wait to smell like you. I'm gonna spray myself when it comes out. I'm gonna send you cannot say out. Calm Down with Aaron and Carissa is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.