I interviewed OJ Simpson. We're just sitting next to each other, like four feet apart, and he goes, you think I did it? And I go did what I wanted him to say it? So I said did what? And he said killed those two people?
And I said, yes, calm down with Erin and Carissa is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to Part two of our Conversation with Dan Patrick.
Then this show Hello, because.
One episode with Dan Patrick is not enough. This guy's career is so good. We had to ask him more questions and this one are you ready for an incredible story about OJ Simpson? We also go I go to the Dan Patrick School of interviewing. I mean, just five minutes with this guy? How good was that? I mean, maybe I'll actually get invited to the Sports Emmys this year? And how much longer he's going to keep doing this? Stay with us, Dan Patrick? Part two up NEXTO on
the Big Show. So, Dan, you are so skilled at so many things that you do. Erin and I both interview people as well for a living. I want to know the art of the interview through the lens of Dan Patrick because I'm constantly trying to figure out and learn and take advice, yield advice from people that I respect. What makes a good interviewer be curious.
Like, always be curious. It's not about you. There's nothing wrong with the question that makes it seem like you don't know the answer. If you say why, but we get caught up in oh my god, they're going to think I don't know. So you're going to ask a question, answer the question, then ask the question. It's terrible, yes, just get to the question. Just ask the question. And because the less time I have you to be able to load up with an answer or maybe bullshit me,
I'm doing a disservice to my aunt. And I always think when I'm interviewing, my job is to be a conduit to the people who are listening or watching. It's my job to get them something that keeps them in their car or they go, oh, did you hear that interview? And if you're selfless, then you'll ask open ended questions and be curious and always be ready with the follow up. Athletes try not to tell us things, or coaches try not to tell us things. Your job is. They're going
to tell you something. You just have to listen for it and then when you follow up, that's when you get gold. I remember when Scotty Pippen was being interviewed by all these people and he had something to say about Michael Jordan and Lebron and everybody was, oh my god, did you hear what Scotty had to say. Well, in the same conversation, he talked about race played a role in phil wanting Scotty did not take the last shot.
Tony Kukoach was going to take the last shot in the game and Scotty sat down and I said, oh my god, that's the quote he'd basically called Phil and a racist. And I said to Fritzy my book, I said, see if you can get Scottia and he was promoting as whiskey or bourbon or something tequila maybe, and I ask him, I said, what are you saying about Phil? And he said no, he basically was saying he's a racist. And I just thought, nobody's listening, like they're listening for
what gets clicks. And gets clicks is when you talk about Michael Jordan and Lebron James, not Phil Jackson. And I just remember it was like it hit me that are we really listening? Are we only listening for what works in today's social media climate. And I don't do social media. I'm not on social media. I'm not interested in social media. I'm aware of it. If I make a mistake, somebody points that out. But other than that, I don't need it as a you know, reassurance. But
I think you know how we ask questions? Who's asking questions? And I think journalism is sort of in small letters now, I don't think it's capital letters. And that's where I think we get into trouble sometimes hot takes. That's really important. But when you sit down and you ask questions, ask the question, and don't be afraid because this isn't about that guy being your buddy or you know that woman
being your buddy. Your job is still to get that answer to your audience, and if you always believe in that and stay true to that, you can't go wrong. But make it about the subject, not about you and your questions.
I love that.
Now I'm rethinking everything I want to ask my sistic I'm like, shit, what's happening?
Well? I would I not to tell you how to do your job, but I would like to know, like, what makes you want to be part of the media, Like, what what part of the media do you enjoy? Because he he is good, Yeah, he's good on his podcast and he's got things to say, and he's young, and I'm just curious that new wave of athlete. So, you know, we got the nil guys and then we got you know, these guys. You have a podcast and what do you say? And can you say it? And are you saying it
on here? But you won't say it to the media when you do a press conferent, Like those are things that I find really fascinating because today's athlete is far ahead of the game in a lot of ways, but really naive in a lot of ways too.
You've done everything covered World Series and Bay Finals, Olympics, your time at ESPN, your time at NBC, and your own show. Is there something you would go back and do differently? Or you appreciative of the past that you've.
Been see I would have critiqued you right there. Tell me what would you have done differently?
What would you have done differently?
You don't even add the end of it.
I love you now. I do this to my wife and I do this to my kids. Tell us again, so good and it messes. That's the way you think. Dan, did you deal with John Swatsky at ESPN?
Yes, he in a great way sucked my head up, like what we're when? Why? How do not ask two part questions? Like it's screws my brain app but it's great.
John Sawantsky changed my career.
Wow. Wow.
John was in a magazine. There was an article and it was like the King of interviewing or King of the question. And I read it and I said to John Walsh, who was running Sports Center, I said, we have to get him here.
Yeah.
And so he got him here five days, eight hours. And people were like write in MF and me like they were like, oh my god, why did you? And I said, oh my god, this is unbelievable. It was a treasure trove of things that could help you. Tips laying down breadcrumbs, like take them here, take them here. Where are you going? What's your end game? What's your first question? Now? We went toe to toe a lot of times because I said, you've never interviewed Mike Tyson,
you've never interviewed Dennis Rodman. Your law is your rules, your tips won't apply. And he goes, I beg to different. I go, I know because I've done that. I have interviewed them, and there is no way to really go into that with his formula. But the other stuff was wonderful open ended question. I'll sit around the table with my kids, my wife and I used to go, how is your day good? And I go, okay, tell me what was the best part of your day? And so
then they would give you an answer. And then after a while they caught on and they go, you interviewing down, or you really.
I love it? Though I love it, you have.
To get into Do it to your boyfriend, do it to your husband. Just ask a question. They won't realize it. But when you say, hey, how you doing good? Hey, what was fun today? Or what was interesting today? Then you get conversation. And I always tell people when you get married, you fall in love, but you stay married because you like that person. So find out if you like being around them by talking to them.
Don't do this, do that, don't do it.
I don't want to screw up. You've gotten this far without me. I've helped you with other relationships.
Yeah, exactly, Oh, get out of them. So wait, so okay, let me ask the question. In the Dan Patrick School of Interviewing, this is this is my test. Okay, so Dan, you have covered World Series. NBA don't have to do that. They don't have to do that. You're out of information that they know about.
Okay.
I thought I was starting. I thought I had to swatch. Like, no, I don't do your question now, I don't know. My question is what would you do differently?
Okay, that's it? What would you do differently in your career?
What would you do differently in your career?
Nothing? I learned. I learned the right way. I mean, I got humiliated, I got kicked to the curb. I came back. I started something on my own. I'm proud of, like you're proud of. It's like you know when a supermodel gets wrinkles, like that's life. You know you've been smiling. It's okay. And I just and I didn't call myself a supermodel, by the way, I'm just saying that you you're not. It's not perfect, and I tried to be perfect when I started this. Every sports center I did,
every single one. I'd get done, i'd grab the tape, I'd go upstairs and I would watch the entire sports center because I was looking for things that I did wrong, and I thought, what am I like? So you're kind Even I'd make a mistake on camera and I'd be thinking about it through the whole show. And I don't know if you guys have gone through that where you make a mistake pregame or something and you're going, oh, god, damn it, it's just there. But I was looking for
everything that was wrong. Howd the tie look, how did my hair look? How did I sound? And it was just I was driving myself crazy because I couldn't just go out there and go I made a mistake. I can deal with it. And it took a long time to do that. And you know, Keith Oberman helped immensely because he's like, DP, fuck it, move on and then he's right. But in the moment, you're like, god, I want to I want to be perfect. You know, that's
probably why I got to where I am. But it also can really, you know, take its toll on you because you want to be great all the time. You know, the motto is every day is the super Bowl, and if you don't have that approach, then you're going to
fall in your face sometimes because you weren't prepared. And it goes back to that first day in radio when I didn't know how to pronounce the Iyahtola's name, and I never forgot that feeling of being humiliated, and so it's always there, you know, forty years later, I'm emotional.
I'm emotional because I am. I'm like sitting here crying because a lot of this is relatable. But also I was telling Chris one question I wanted to ask you, was I feel like in this whole thing has been like just like a relay race, right, you just go as fast as you can because you want to keep up and you want to keep reinventing yourself, you want to stay relevant, but you don't take the time to enjoy it. This is so special that we have you
in our lives. We have you the somebody we looked up to, we wanted to be like, we wanted to work with, and we have you as a friend and just to hear you tell these stories that you know are so passionate and things that we are so interested in. I don't know.
I never celebrate it. I never celebrated. I never stopped. And my wife goes celebrate the victories. I go, hun, I need big victories hard, like Hey, you know you're going to win an award. And she would say no, like did you have a good show? I say, well, I don't know. Yeah, I guess she goes, but you got to celebrate it and I and she was so right as she always is, and I just missed out
on that. So I would say to you, guys, man, the all things, and you know, having a baby, just those small things, those are things you should be doing in your career, noticing the small things. It's like when your baby does something small and you go, God, did you see that? That was awesome? She ate an avocado? Oh my god, Like have fun and remember it because you chase constantly. I did. I kept thinking, well, next job or next paycheck or next raise, or next next, next, next, next, next,
And I never ever stopped. It's okay to look open the scrap book and just go, yeah, that was fun. Okay people and the memories.
So let's let's do this.
As I applied, Mike, you have a few more minutes for us, because I know we're.
Already I have I have life for you.
I love you, Thank you. I know to me right now, she's a mother, she's emotional.
I guess I'm a mother too. I'm a mother too.
The best part is, Dani're one of the funniest people we know.
Aaron and I cry ever and here we are, okay, so rapid fire. Since somebody's by Dan Patrick's school of question asking favorite interview, I don't have one.
Least favorite interview.
Ooh, Tanya Harding was was painful. Why there you go? Right there? Boom, that's what you do? Why Well? I brought up Nancy Kerrigan. She I had never interviewed her, and she had found religion, and I wanted to know how her religion accepted what she did and what she was, how she was a part of Nancy Carrigan and and you know, her husband and all those things, and so good. She follow up, She goes, are we are we going
to really talk about this? And I go yes, And then all of a sudden I hear hold on, Paul wants talk to you. Well, I don't know who Paul is. Paul goes, Dan, we're going down this road, and I go, uh, who are you Jeff's brother. I'm her agent and ur PR person, and I go, look, I've never had so they cut short the interview, But I just wanted to ask her about it. I interviewed OJ Simpson. This was after the double murder, and.
What was your first question.
I don't remember my first question because we were we were talking football. Okay, I made a terrible mistake. Iwa. I think was playing USC and the Orange Bowl, and I thought, you know what, Oj, you know he was found not guilty. He was still a wonderful football player. Maybe we talked to OJ Simpson, well he agrees, and we just talked football and USC and all those things, and we were changing tapes. So I did thirty minutes
and then we stopped. And so you know, that feels like forever when somebody's reloading their camera and it's just him and we're just sitting next to each other and like four feet apart, and he goes, you think I did it? And I go did what? And he said kill you? Yes, but I wanted him to say it, so I said did what and he said killed those two people? And I said yes, And then my cameraman goes, okay, okay, we're ready to roll.
Oh shit, yeah wow.
Then he kept trying to tell me how he was not guilty, and he goes, you don't know how crazy my life is do you know that I was in Vegas and I walked by a room and they were shooting a porn and they wanted me oj to be in the porn, and like it was going, it was going in a direction where it wasn't going to make error. And I just let him talk. But he was trying to convince me because I just told him to his face. Yes, I thought that he killed you know, his his wife,
oh Ron Golden. Yeah. So that one was an interesting conversation. Lawrence Taylor, I thought was going to beat me up. Really, yeah, I'd ask him. He had been suspended for cocaine use and he read a statement to the print media and I was at training camp and then he came out. They wouldn't let camera people in and he came out and he was walking to his car, and I was working at CNN at the time, and I said, would you read the statement on camera? And then he said,
you need to get the real story. And I said, I have the full story. I talked to your agent. And then he walked away, and then I thought, oh god, all right, here I go, and I went up to him again. I said, look, I need you to read that on camera. You know that I wasn't able to be in there. They wouldn't allow cameras. And then he had the darkest sunglasses on ever. I could see the whites of his eyes through his sunglasses and he said
staring at me, and I go, oh, my gosh. I felt like I was Ken O'Brien and the Jets and he was coming after me, sack me. And this is my neighbor.
I'm not kidding.
Awesome, he's a good guy. I felt He's one of the first guys I ever felt bad for. I saw fear in his eyes when Lawrence Taylor was chasing him during a game, and I go that that is fear right there, that is fear. But he got into his he had a dark blue portie and he peeled out and Peter King was working I think for news Day. He runs out, he goes what did he say? And I told him the story, and I think Peter quoted me in Newsday that Lawrence Taylor basically told me to
get fucked as he got his car. I mean, these are the moments that people don't really care. Like when you're getting in the business, you don't you know that that you don't want to have these moments like you don't have these moments come on, you know, and then you do where you know, sometimes you're asking a tough question and you know, I just I just try to be professional the best. I can never try to be sensationalistic, and I don't do gotcha. I don't do any of
that stuff. But there are times when you go, God, this is going to hurt. When I asked this question, boss, so you gotta do it.
Was there an interview that you wanted, didn't think that you would get and you got it.
Let's see now I could say yes or no to that, right.
Who was a person that you wanted to interview and he didn't think you could get it, but.
You got it.
I think Michael Jordan during the NBA Finals when he wasn't talking to the media and then I got a chance to talk. I had a great relationship with him. I don't really know him, but he was very generous with me and he knew that I was I could push him a little bit and he was playful. I thought he was different when he was on Sports Center after they would win those championship hips and I another interview. I got that that's really not headline worthy. But John
Stockton never did interviews. Never the NBA Finals, NBC would be trying, Jim Gray would be trying to get John Stockton to sit down, and I just remember saying to the PRG. I was just trying to be funny and I said, hey, love to have you know, John to sit down for an interview. And he goes, I'll ask, and I go, okay, just for shits and giggles comes back and he goes, John'll do it. Where do you want to do it? And I go what? So we sat down at the interview. I just remember NBC is like, hey,
what do you wait a minute? You know, why don't you do an interview with us? And I go, I have no idea. I just ask. And I always say that don't be afraid to ask. Cool if you can take no, which I happened through most of my high school and college career with women, like if you can if you can take a know and keep coming back, then you know that's you got to have that that
fixed skin, you have to have callouses. And I just remember, you just asked, you know, I had no problem asking, and if you got rejected, you're like, okay.
Do you think you could ask Michael Jordan to do Calm Down as well like we can book of that'd be a neat h.
No, I don't have that pipeline to him anymore, but he I would still love to follow up with him, and I would love to talk business with him. His business acumen and the fact that his mom played this important role and what would happen if he, you know, stayed with the Didas didn't want to go to Nike. And I mean, you know, these small little decisions that somebody makes, and you go, that's a billion dollar decision right there, if not more a couple of billion dollars.
And all it was was, we're going there and we're gonna we're going to talk to these people at Nike, and uh, you know, you're just sometimes it takes that it's just a small thing with a lot of these guys. And they're competitive too. I find this too in interviewing. You got to be competitive with somebody competitive, don't be afraid to let them know you know what you're talking about, and go after them a little bit. Pat Riley famously
shut me down one time. Don Shula shut me down one time because they didn't think I knew what I was talking about, and they could have been correct, But what I was asking was not, you know, something really serious. You know, it wasn't goodwill hunting and I'm solving a problem on a chalkboard. But I asked Jack Ramsey, I said, give me a question. I can ask pat Riley NBA Finals and Jack Jack was just a wonderful, wonderful man.
He goes, Dan, bakers are Miami. Who is he with?
He was with the Knicks?
Oh?
Sorry, Nick Kay, yeah, the Knicks. So he goes, Dan, this is what you ask him? And so he's got this elaborate thing, and I'm so. I go over there. It's a you know, a group interview with Riley. And I asked the question and he didn't even answer. He looked at me and he didn't even answer it. And I walked back over and Jack goes, what did he say, Dan? I said, he didn't say anything. He goes, he knew you knew something. I go, I don't. I just think
I just embarrassed myself in front of him. He goes, no, you didn't, Dan, you learned from me, like you know, a Hall of Famer, wonderful man. And he was trying to Hey, I think he knew that Riley knew that Jack gave me the question to ask him, and he wasn't going to give up the answer to the reporters there. That's all right, you know, I'm sorry.
That's why Rogers is so hard for me sometimes because he and Andrew Locke was really hard Chris. I know, he was just on your Thursday Night show. Because they're smarter than you. I'll never I'll you know, and Rogers knows what's coming, luck New and I was like, damn it, stop being so smart.
Just listen.
Yeah, but I find those they'll play you know, kind of verbal tennis with you a little bit. They'll help you do your job. I found Rogers would be engaging. And when I talked to him after the draft when they took Jordan Love and I said, you know, why forefingers with your tequila? And he said there wasn't any any more tequila, like he had that amount of tequila only because that's all the tequila that was left at
the time. And you know, so you're asking him about that process and he allowed me to go into his home when I was asking the quest. And that's all you want is if you break through the barrier. Now, what do you do when you get in the house. Are we sitting in the living room, the kitchen, are we going down to the man cave? Are we going to the bedroom? But I want to know where where are we going? Is it going to be a fun, intimate conversation. Is it going to be sort of status quo?
Like I want to be in the kitchen with you? Living room? Nothing good happens in the living room now except for the Christmas train and that's it. Yeah. Yeah, Like you know when whenever you go over and you you were meeting a girl and you were going to take her to prom, and you went in the living room like it was always and they'd have plastic on the furniture, Like nothing good happens in the living room.
But you get into the kitchen with an athlete or a coach or something, then it's like just sitting around and it becomes a little bit more of a let's chat. And that's another thing I always tell my students. Don't interview somebody. Have a conversation with somebody, because then it doesn't sound like an interrogation because if I ask you questions and I'm like you know, peppering you, you're gonna
tense up a little bit. But if we're having a conversation, then I feel like, okay, let me hear your tone and that'll tell that kind of dictates. You can have a velvet hammer. That's the way I view it is, Hey, it may hurt, but it's not gonna hurt as much, or it's gonna look better than a hammer coming at you. It'll be a velvet hammer. But ask that question and get that conversation going, because when you do, that's when
they forget they're being interviewed. And it's and it's hard to do that, really hard, but when you do, then you got magic and that's all you want. You want that sound bite. And I always respected when the when you had to ask two questions, you got your two questions on the sidelines, I'd be like, God love you, man, God love you, because I couldn't do it so hard. What are you going to say to your team? Second half? Like like, coach, what do you need to work on?
After that? Every goddamn thing is what I need to do. They're like, wait a minute, Contractually I get to ask you one more question.
You know, you know what I want to see you interview Mike McDaniel on the sideline at half time with that questions, my dream is to see Dan Patrick interview Mike McDaniel at halftime.
And then I reached out. I had Fritzie reach out to Mike McDaniel two weeks ago and I said, you know, hey, we'd love to have you on the show. And the message we got back was I'd like to talk to Dan in the off season.
Huh, that was it, because he wants to talk for a long time.
I I I love it. I love you know when everybody is a cookie cutter and it's like, oh, that's the coach. Nobody wants that. I want a guy who like is difficult, irascible. I mean, I don't want Belichick or Popovich, per se because that's not good for, you know, our jobs. But when you get somebody who wants to kind of push back at you a little bit, give you a ship like Jim Beheim always wanted to, you know,
push back, John Caliperry wanted to give me ship. Like yeah, but that's what you want because there, as I say to my daughter's boyfriends, if I like you, I'm going to give you a ship and if I don't, then you know anything, time to pack your back. Like you just have fun with somebody that you care about or you want to engage with. And I've been fortunate that you can kind of push back a little bit. I mean, Bob Knight became.
Right in front of your microphone.
That is Lou Holtz at our.
The red sweater and the white shirt underneath. I thought it was job.
I have Bob Knight, a big doll back there, a big carving or something. People send me stuff all the time. I love it. I love it. I got this is, I have this man case. I don't know what I'm going to do it in my career is over because I have to take all this stuff home and you know my wife loves that. You know, there's no sports stuff at home.
When is the end of your career? When you wanted four more years? Four more years?
Really? Why? Good?
Chris?
Learning that was great. I want to be able to do it at a certain level, hopefully maintain that level, and then you you bow out. It's a young person's game, trying to stay relevant, having the energy, uh, the enthusiasm, having something new to tell people. You know, those are all challenges. But it's every day where you think about that.
What I mean there there are shows that I went to see one direction, I would go see Taylor Swift if I could get the like I want to stay young at least in my mind of what is out there, what is somebody doing, what are they saying, what are the shows that people are watching, the athletes, the younger at like all of that stuff, and it's doing your homework. And I just want to make sure, you know, I do it in a way that you laugh with me,
not at me. And that's my that's my big concern, that's my big fear is damn, he's still doing that, like you don't know? Well, I know, but that's unfortunately, that's the approach I have. It's I'm still trying to prove myself after all these years. Every single day, I know, but I have no other approach to that. I have no other approach. I can't do it any any other way. And it's as I said, going back, you don't enjoy
it because you're always going straight ahead. There's nothing wrong with pulling over the side of the road and going all right and then getting back in the you know, the HOV lane. Or whatever. But that's yeah, that's what That's the only way I know how to do it. So four more years and then I'll bow out Christmas eve in four more years.
On that illustrious resume. The occasionally accurate annuals.
We were trying. We were trying why the book every football book is serious and it's about gladiators and it's about you know, all this stuff. Macho and Joel cohen Co wrote the book and he writes for the Simpsons. And he called me up and he said, hey, would you like to be in a Simpsons episode? And I said sure. I said, I want to play myself. He goes, no, no, you'll just be a generic announcer. I said, that's playing myself.
And you're going to do some rock skipping. That's a rock skipping competition with Homer Simpson, and you're going to do play by play. And I go all in and he goes, okay, hey, can you explain to me why Mark Sanchez gets criticized for the butt fumble when Vince Wilford blew up the tackle that bounced into Mark and I go and so we started talking and then he said, you know, I got one other thing and then he would bring something up and then all of a sudden I would say stuff back to it. So we were
basically exchanging ideas. And then I think after twenty minutes, he goes, do you want to write a book? And I go sure. Now I didn't know what he was talking about. I just said, sure, write a book. Yeah, I don't know. And then he goes, I'm going to write all this stuff down. I'm gonna come back at you. And then we just would talk on the phone and then it was all tongue in cheek, fun stuff, goofy stuff,
some serious stuff, some stuff we made up. And I just thought, you know what, have a little levity with this, have a little fun with this, poke a little fun at it. And he was wonderful to just talk to. And then Andy Richter from Conan he he had a question he wanted to write, Like all of these people that he knew were like, Hey, can I tell why? You know how I became a Vikings fan and I used to sleep naked with the windows open to get used to the cold and be And then I'd been like, sure,
can we talk about nipple Gate? And I said, we can talk about whatever you want. Ye I'm going to talk about Nipplegate, and I go, sure, we're talking Nipplegate here.
Yes, I'm going to rename this book the Random Shit you want to talk About with Patrick.
That might have been a better title than The occasionally Accurate Animals. I just love having you trying to say animals.
Okay, wait, we're going to let you go. But before we do that, E, do you want anything before we let Dan get back.
To his life.
No, I just I love you and I hope you're well and how is your health? Are you good?
I'm going into New York once a month, get wired up there for a little bit, but a whole lot better than I was because I I went down a dark hole there for quite some time. And yeah, you know, I never I never knew depression. Never, Like when somebody says, oh, I suffer from depression, I'm like, how do you suffer from depression? Then all of a sudden you get depression and you're going, holy shit. So whenever anybody brings it up, now, man,
I want to know. I want you to talk because it's that that was as that I almost quit the business. I physically couldn't. I couldn't climb the steps to get into the studio, and I'm like, man, I am, I'm in bad shape. But everything's good. Better. Got a granddaughter and little Josephine, so life is good. She is going to be eight months. Oh my god, it's not fair how cute she is.
My dad said, if I knew how great being a grandparent was, I would have never been a parent.
It's a whole different thing.
When you're on the it is. Man, you can love them and then you just hand them all. That's how I.
Kid.
Yeah, but look, I'm proud of you too. The women you are okay, thank you.
You're gonna make me cry.
That's not possible.
Thank you.
I am proud of you. And we've we've navigated some some waters. There's certainly, but you know what, I'm glad whatever role I play. I'm I'm very happy to be a sounding board or just a friend. And just a friend is not fair to say I'm proud to be a friend.
No, thank you, Dan for you yet we love you, so love you a lot.
I'm so grateful for you. Calm Down with Erin and Carissa is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.