Call It what it Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Lettington, an iHeartRadio podcast. Well, hello, call it crew.
I call it crew. We decided today's episode we're just gonna We're just gonna jump right in.
We're gonna go into it. We got excited about this topic.
I don't even care about your week.
Just nope, don't care about your week. I mean, I hope it was good, but I don't care about what happened in it.
Don't care, don't need to know. Yep, help the family goes.
Just when this topic, I have to say, I've been sometimes I I just you know, with some with a close group of friends or family, I just sort of throw out some topics that we've been talking about talking about. And this one lit up a dinner table the other night. The idea of talking about are you ready for it?
Yeah?
Of course?
Competition within friendships.
Well, this one can get spicy, It can get real spicy.
People have feelings. People also have feelings about competition in general, like where competition exists, and where is it healthy for competition to exist? And where is it not healthy, not helpful, unwanted? And friendship would be one of them.
You know what's funny is my very first friendship memory is from elementary school and understanding that the dynamics between and I was young, like eight, understanding the dynamics of that friendship, and even though I would have had a word for it was so toxic at the time that I remember thinking, this is not a real friendship. This was my best friend in elementary school. And I remember every time that I got something good, I would be
punished for it. She would silent treatment me and exclude me, and I was very, very confusing. And then the truth is that there are versions of this that still happen in adulthood. Yeah, have you had friends in your life that have been competitive with you that have actually ruined the friendship from being competitive soured?
No? No. And during this during the talking about this subject, it was very interesting how differently people feel about it who have had real life experience with it. So, No, I have not. I have not had. I have not had friendships where competition was an aspect or part of the personality of our friendship. And it's funny because I am a competitive person. I like to do well. It's important to me. It's important to me to perform well.
It's important for me to do well, to have studied, to have done the thing, to have done the research, to do the work. It's very important to me. And yet I have never in my life wanted to compare how I do on something or how well I do something or don't do something. I've never wanted to compare it to a friend. And I've not had friends compete
with me in close friendship. Do I have friends and maybe we're you know, on the periphery or you know, silly about this that or the other, probably, but not in not not friendships that meant something to me.
Now your well, I want to ask you one more question because you're very but I don't like to talk about it. But Jess is very, very very very best friend. Whatever is Sasha Alexander, who is a wonderful actress. You guys are similar ages you've even like talked about when you were younger, and I believe you met because you were auditioning against each other. Right, yeah, okay, So have you two been up against each other for the same role and has one of you ever gotten it over the other?
Interestingly enough, because for those who don't know, I think that we have been. There are so many things about us that are similar, even like we absolutely look at we'd be sisters. No, no, we were, we sort of were not sort of we were not up for the same things, and so we were not. No, we were not in competition with each other for jobs.
Also, I feel like at this point, you guys love each other so much. Yeah that if someone you would anybody else getting a job over you, That's when I feel like, you know you love someone because you're like, if I don't get it, I want you to get it. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Like if I don't, you better get it.
Exactly. Oh, but definitely. I mean I also think that there's different you know, there's different points in your career where you're up or down. That's just having a career, you know, or having a long career. Is that sometimes you're doing well, sometimes you're not. And we've had different moments where she's been crushing it and I might not have been or you know, and I there's still just total complete allegiance to h friendship and connection and support
and all that. No, never, you know, one time I was and now now I'm remembering, Okay, so one time I was against Oh, looks. See you look at the word I just chose interesting. This is how competition is born. I was up for the same role as Carrie Russell, and Carrie and I had just done a movie together in Calgary where we were in the middle of nowhere. It was a western very I mean, no makeup, no fuss, no frills, early wake ups underneath like whirlybird rain machines.
We were like frontier women. We were in it and I didn't know her before, and we became very fast friends and very close friends, and I just adore her.
She's just one of the best. I love, love, love me some Carrie Russell, and so we do the show and we finish, and then we go back to She was living in New York, I was living in Los Angeles, and both of us went back to not having jobs, and she and I both were interested in doing theater, and not even having talked to each other, we both end up being up for this Neil Lebute play that's going to be at the lu Sale Lortel Theater in New York City, and we make it to you know,
it's between she and I. We make it to the end, and so I call her. She calls me, however it is, and we know that we have to go to this casting office. We're just right after each other. She went first, I went second. But we decided that we were going to dinner that night no matter what. And it's my memory that we decided that whoever got the part had to pay for dinner.
So that's cute. Did you find out that day?
We actually did? We did, and I think we knew that we were going to find out, or manam, maybe we had a contingency plan. I don't know. But anyways, I get there thankfully she'd already gone in, but I heard it was one of those audition rooms where the walls were super thin and I could hear her whole audition, and I was like, oh man, like pacing out in the hallway, trying not to you know, listen.
Did you change if you heard it? And because she's a fantastic act if you heard it and you were like, this is amazing, is there anything that made you suddenly go well, I should have I should play it like that a little bit, just do exactly what she's doing. It's so similar. I need to change mine up. Yeah, did it throw you in any way?
You remember this. It's at that point again you're not really in your body, your nerves of taking it, you're not processing. I just remember her being done and the character was really hot headed, so there's a lot of screaming, so I really did hear every single word. But I went in after her, and I was just proud of myself. I did I did what I came to do, and we got a phone call a couple I don't know, a little bit of time later and she got the part.
And it's not to say I wasn't disappointed, because this is a big distinction, right, not feeling your feelings would not be honest. I was very disappointed. I really wanted that part, and she got the part. But I wasn't upset with her. I wasn't upset. Yeah, she got it. I was just disappointed that I didn't. And they felt very,
very separate to me. So we absolutely then went out to dinner in downtown New York City and had a fantastic meal, and she went on to absolutely crush that show, and interestingly enough, just to file in the column of things actually really do work out since I say it so often, she opened up that show. It was a huge success. They extended the show and she couldn't do the extension, and the director called me and said, well, you do the second part of the show, and so
we both got to do the show. It was one of my favorite jobs I've ever had in my whole life. It was so formative in so many ways. And I love that show, love that show. So yeah, but we were for each other. We were absolutely for each other.
I think that what I hear a lot that. I mean, obviously I asked you about that because I feel like in our particular world, we are forced to go and the verbiage is up against each other. That is what you say, right, Yeah, But I hear a lot. Actually there's a lot of competitiveness between people within relationships, So your relationship versus mine. Am I getting engaged? Are you getting engaged now? Getting married around the same time? What
are you doing with your babies? What's your wedding? Like? I hear that a lot. I have a couple friends that kind of got married around the same time as each other, and I don't even know if they were aware of it, but it felt like there was a little bit of one of thing, you know, bachelorette party, like what are they doing. I'm gonna do something different, I'm gonna do something similar, but like kind of And so I don't know if it's like the time and
you're you know that you're getting married. But I think that I've experienced that between friends. It's very tricky there, and you're happy that the friends are happy for each other, but I feel like you can get a little competitive and and in so many ways when you have a friend that is competitive with you, I think that it can really sour a friendship. Yeah, for sure, because then you start to hold when you're very aware of this. And again, this is what happened to me even back
in elementary school. I started to be very aware of not sharing my wins or trying to sort of dull them in order to save that friendship. Yeah, and that will never work. It'll kill us breast. It might kill it slowly, but it'll kill a friendship.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, So Okay, I know what I think my answer is. But this is something that came up, and I think that it's a really deciding factor in whether people feel competitive or not. Exactly what you were just saying, which is like relationships, because I mean, let's be honest, you can't control when someone gets engaged or when they don't, or when they get pregnant or when they don't, or if they make money or they don't. These are things that are completely outside of you know,
your power in any way, shape or form. But what I think is interesting is that when you have someone, I think mindset matters. I think that people who experience the scarcity mindset like they often feel they don't have enough, or they wish they had more, or the world doesn't treat them favorably, or it's just another day in which
they don't get what they want. If they don't feel confident, if they don't feel enough, if they don't feel worthy, if they don't feel like they have that sense of belonging, they in my observation, become competitive. The people who feel like they do have enough, that they do feel confident, that they're exactly where they're supposed to be, that they're in the relationship that they want, that they work for. I don't find to be as competitive.
No, But I will say that what we're dealing with now that me and you did not deal with growing up, and I think it's so hard, is that social media feels like it's set up to be competitive. It almost feels like the algorithm is I have this, what do you have?
Yeah? This?
What do I have?
Right?
So even though you love your friend, now they're post now it's like they're posting the picture of the giant diamond on the hand or the new job. And now I get to travel and and even I find myself people I don't know. I'm like, oh man, I want to yes, where are you? I don't even know them. I don't care.
I'm fine.
You were like, wait would they have that? I need that necklace?
Yeah?
I need that.
Wait until I.
Get that, you're so and it's it's we're being fed competition. You're so right. So when you're following your friends, it's like the algorithms like compete, compete, compete, can be post compete, who's winning, who's losing, Who's who has this? Who is that? And just it sucks and we didn't we didn't grow up with that.
But again, I mean, okay, okay, I see that completely. I experienced that more with total strangers. So I remember, no, you're gonna have to fact check here because I don't you know me, I don't have the names that comes straight to the tip of the tongue. So it's golden globes time I'm watching it. Taylor Swift is there.
Obviously she has my attention, and obviously.
Kelly Tellor, Miles Teller's wife is I don't know, and maybe in the pictures with her they came together somehow. There's there's Kelly Teller, and I had not known who she was until that moment. I go to Instagram because I'm like, Wow.
She's beautiful.
So who is she?
What?
Yeah?
Competitive where why?
I was like, I'm part of the circle and I'm wondering who she's getting close to exactly I need to know. So cut to and by the way, it's funny because I was explaining this to my daughters because they were saying to me, you know, another case for Instagram that we want to have Instagram blah blah blah blah. I said, no, no, this is why you cannot, this is why it's so dangerous.
Yeah. I go looking up Kelly Teller and I spend fifteen minutes on Instagram, a deep dive into Kelly tell her life, and by the end of this fifteen minute dive, I have convinced myself that everything I have is nothing compared to what Kelly tell her has. I am no amazing, I'm not even I'm not even kind of cute. I don't go on any vacations. I don't know I was on vacation. By the way, Kelly brings beautiful clothes on vacation. I just want to shout out, Kelly, you're crushing it.
You're doing vacation very well. Yeah, she's worthy of a deep dive all of it. I was just convinced of it, and only because I don't know because other people have told me this or I've learned this lesson once I unplugged from the Instagram machine, once I've unplugged from the matrix. Yeah, and I woke myself up and slapped myself around a
little bit. Yeah, did I come back to No, no, no, no, No, Kelly can have all that Kelly has and be awesome, and so can I. Yeah, when Kelly has has nothing to do with what.
Yes, yes, one hundred percent. But this is what I'm saying with the competition can competitive algorithm feed He's not helping these friendships.
When you're talking about competition in friendships where someone might be feeling like they're doing better or might be perceived of as doing better, and someone else might be struggling. I think it's important to remember the whole two things can be true thing, yes, which is that your friend can be doing really well and you can be really happy for them, and your life can be challenging and you can be disappointed with where you're at. They don't
cancel each other out. And when you're in a strong friendship, you can say that to a friend like, I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited you just got engaged. I am so excited. I love your person. Your person is great for you. I see a very happy life ahead. There's me so many exciting things that you start planning, and I'm not there yet. So my feelings about where I am will sometimes creep into things. And I want you to just know that that's where I'm at and
it doesn't have anything to do with you. So it might come up and I and I don't want it to. I want you to. I want to be in conversation with you about it because I don't want you to ever perceive my feelings about where I'm at as how I feel about where you're at. It doesn't take away from my happiness for you. It doesn't know take away from how awesome it is that what's happening for you
is happening. It just is where I'm at, and I need to be able to have the two things be true, which is that I'm super happy for you and I'm having a hard time.
I think that's so amazing, by the way, I would appreciate that in a friendship so much more than someone not even having that conversation with me, even if it's a hard conversation and just swallowing those feelings, because if I love you, I want to know that too. I want to know, like, she's feeling not great right now, she's feeling insecure about shit.
You know.
Yeah, I think that communication is what makes friendships really solid and beautiful, and because, by the way, at some point it'll flip. It always does, it always does. And then you've had that, You've opened up the door to have that kind of correspondence with your buddy and you can be like, you know what, I feel kind of shitty right now too. I'm feeling this way now, and you have a baby and I'm trying and I love it, but I'm you know it's hard for me. I love you.
I just want you to know that that's where those feelings are coming from.
Yes, especially especially within I do think female to female friendships because there's this really old and gross idea that women should be in competition with women more than anything, or that there is this idea that because I'm a woman, I'm going to be competitive with another woman for the things that she has or doesn't have. And I think, you know, I mean, I think it happens a lot in It can happen in friendship. I think it happens
a lot in business and in work. Right, Like when you hear a lot of people say, like when a woman's really successful, that you know she might have a harder time in friendships because of her success, Like that, how awesome is it to have a friend who's successful? How awesome is it to be able to be with someone who's excited about what they do? How hopefully that
would be contagious. Hopefully whatever she's doing right that's getting her in that position is going to row off on me, is going to be inspiring to me, is going to motivate me, is going to make me understand that absolutely there's only twenty four hours in a day, but somehow she's figuring out a twenty fifth. I want your secrets, you know, like, like I think that that is, you know, ultimately exactly the best thing that can come from friendship is that kind of is that kind of motivation and
that inspiration. And I get really really irritated and tired of hearing people try to say things about women that are like that we're in competition with each other or that we want to take each other down. I just think that that's just fucking nuts.
It is crazy, But I think it comes from that place. And I know people talk about the seat of the table, a seat at the table, but I think that we have been told that there's like one or two seats at the table for women in scarcity, and so it's like, well, she got the seat, is our seat left? And that's bullshit.
Yeah, we're gonna build out that table.
You can have all the injured, I mean exactly.
And it's it's that zero sum game mindset. It's that there's a winner and a loser, that someone wants the place at the table, so there's no room for anyone else. Well, guess what news alert getting that seat at the table might mean that that person can make room for another
chair to come up to the table. Maybe there's gonna need to be company there, there's gonna need to be perspective there, there's gonna need to be understanding and again community, I mean, it's not I find it so upsetting when people get into that one up, one down mindset where it's like I I like one person's above and one person's below. It's like, no, we are all in relationship
with each other. And it may certainly be you know, a journey, but you're all going to go up and you're all going to go down, and the way that you weather that is super super important. Yeah, by the way, I was a big fan. Also, just just again in competition, it just reminded me of something I do remember making. I actually made a couple of friends in audition waiting rooms. But I remember one time there was a part that I didn't get and I did not know the girl
who got it, but I actually made a point. We had a friend in common. I made a point of reaching out and congratulating her and we ended up becoming friends. And I think, again, like that's it's sometimes And it actually took away my bad feeling. I didn't feel as bad about not getting it when I am becoming friends with her. I was actually happy for her. So I don't know if that's worth anything.
Okay, is there such thing as a healthy competition between friends? I'm going to be honest, and I think no.
I said no too. I said no too. I don't think so either. I think there's there's a there's a time and place for competition. It's not in friendship. I mean, I think I'm gonna actually be as bold as to say just that there is there is a place for competition, but it's not in friendship. And if you feel that there is, simply I think it's pretty simple.
I do.
I think it's actually I don't always think that it is. You know me, she's gray, but I think that this one's pretty simple. Okay. So Heather has written in and she says, my best friend of fifteen years and I both had babies around the same time. She has her baby in competition with mine. Every time I tell her my baby did something, she one ups my baby. I don't want to throw away this friendship, but it's making me mental, and I don't want our kids to grow
up competing. Help. Oh, it's serious talking.
Oh, this is hard, and the tract is my My immediate instinct is that her friend is insecure. You know again, scarcity completely comes from insecurity. But that's difficult.
Well, that's why I'm saying, serious talk time. You gotta have a serious talk. You gotta do you get it? I mean, I think that's a we gotta sit down. I love you to the ends of the earth. Fifteen years of friendship. I could not love you more. We are so lucky that we get to have children at the same time, and we get to experience this and be together in this, and I think that things have gone a little sideways, and I want to kind of hit the reset button. I love the reset button, you
know I do. I want to hit the resetton. And I don't want to talk about what my baby does in comparison to your baby, or vice versa. I want for us to bring our experiences to each other, and I want to talk about them. But I don't want to feel like it's a competition. I want to feel like we're just in it together. I think you can name it. I think you name it.
I think you do. Here's the response, though, to that, the response, this is how I would play this conversation in my head. The response, though, is you're saying what your baby did, and I'm just saying what my baby did, and you're taking it that way, and so it gets complicated.
Well, but that's when you just have to say, this is how it feels to me, because no one can ask with how it feels. It feels to me like competition.
And I think that you can even say to soften it a little bit. I don't think you're meaning to do this. Yeah, And because I know you love me, I know you love my baby. When I'm talking about my baby, sometimes I just want to talk about the baby and it not necessarily feel a little bit competitive. And sometimes I don't think you're realizing it, or it feels to me like it gets a little competitive. I just wanted to be so careful of that because I
think it can, you know, not help friendships. I mean, listen, she's worried about the babies growing up together, and you know, now they're on sports teams or now they're in school together, and it's like, well, great, did your baby git get And I understand that that's really hard. I have to say that when I first had my Hayden, I do not feel this way about Lucas. But you're you're given all the milestones when it's your first baby, right and you I was paranoid about the milestones, and so it
wasn't even coming from a place of competition. I just needed to hear that my baby was like doing okay. So it's like when did your baby talk? When did your baby walk when? And so it may not even be coming from a place of competition. It may just be her talking out loud, reaffirming that her baby's also on the right track.
Do you know what I mean?
It's hard. I mean by the way your hormones are crashing. Yeah, it's it's a lot. But I think if you guys have been best friends with this song, you're able to have this conversation and you bring it up because the worst thing you can do in a friendship is letifester because then explodes.
Yeah, and again, I don't think you can misstep when you have that much history, And I think that there's sometimes we just have to go headlong into it again the only way that goes through and you just name it and say like this is how I feel and that might be wild to hear, and I'm sure it might also, you know, help you understand how I'm feeling.
So on the subject of competing, because it really does happen. And by the way, I don't know I really are friends. I don't know. They listed the ten signs Jessica that your friend is secretly competing with you, and I'm going to read some of them. They seem to delight in your misfortune. No, well that's that's not a sign. That's a bye. That's a goodbye. They copy your every move, I mean we like they've skinned you, they're wearing you.
Like how extreme is this single white female? Because by the way, anytime I see Jessica, I want to steal all of her everything and all copy it.
Yeah, I won your hey, I mean again, Kelly Teller, you're you're my real life Kelly Teller.
I'll send it to you in the meg. Yes, they don't celebrate your victories. Not a friendship. Get rid of it.
Go through this list again, because I have to say, this list is really just like the list, Okay not this is how you know that they suck.
Just how you know they suck? Ready, they downplay your accomplishments. They try to one up you, they brag in your presence, they try to keep tabs on you. This is actually a stalking situation. They attempt to sabotage your success, They dwell on the negative aspects of your life. And the last thing is they kill you. I'm kidding. The last thing is they try to discredit you in front of other people. Well, I think the problem with this article is that they said ten signs your friend. This is
not a friend, this is a psychopath. This is a psychopath, and you need a restraining order. Yeah, anyway, Sorry, moving on. That was not helpful.
No, that was not helpful. Moving on. Okay, So do you want to go into anonymous.
Let's do anonymous. My parents got divorced two months ago. We found out my dad has had a girlfriend on the side for a while. My mom is devastated and they are both competing from mine and my brother's good side. It's very awkward. I feel betrayed and it's making me scared of a romantic relationship in the future. Any advice on how to handle it.
I'm sorry, this is terrible.
This is hard. You know what, though, I think we have the same advice as we did for Heather, which is you got to sit down and say, have a really frank conversation and just say, like, I don't know if you know that you're doing this, This is very painful for us, and there's competitiveness and it's not helping, and you pull them aside individually, I think, is what you do.
Yes, yes, absolutely, I agree with that. And also I would say, you know, in terms of feeling in terms of feeling scared for your own romantic relationship in the future, I would be I would be very careful to make sure that you understand.
That that's them.
Yes, you're in charge of you. And sometimes having a front row seat to the devastation that can roll out after betrayal is a pretty good cautionary tale. It's pretty much a really good indication and a really good real life experience that that's not something that you want to
be a part of. So I actually think that sometimes these really horrible and very tough things to bear witness to can help make us better and help us understand, you know, what the real consequences to that kind of behavior are.
I like to think, and this is something I'm working through in one of my many therapy sessions that you don't inherit your parents' history. And that is something I'm learning because if you took two people that absolutely should not have been together, probably not even have shared a bus seat, it's my mom and dad. They did they should they really should not have been together. It was it should have I don't even know, I mean maybe even friends. And they were, and they were together for
a long time. And I have learned that you don't inherit. You don't inherit like the mistakes of your parents. You don't. It didn't make me more afraid of getting divorced. It actually made me a lot pickier when it came to picking a partner because I thought, I don't want to end up like my parents' relationship and these are things that are really important to me before I have kids with somebody, and so I would not worry about that.
Very exciting. We have our first ever voicemail. Very excited to introduce this. I cannot wait and I love it, love it, love it. We get to hear you in your own voice. Hit it than.
Noah, Hi Jessica.
My name is Cush I'm twenty seven.
I am an Indian American gay man who's also a huge fan of both of you. So I just moved, actually for work, to the suburbs of Philadelphia from New York City. I was living in Manhattan, and I'm having a really hard time making friends, Like I don't think enough people talk about how hard it is to make friends as an adult, and I'm really kind of just struggling to meet people and just connect with people. So any advice that you two have on how to make
friends is, like a young professional, be very appreciated. Thank you very much, and love you both.
Hope you're doing well. Okay, number one, I want to be his friend. I just heard his voice and I would like to be his friend.
Yeah, because you're well, you're part of this community, so you have everybody here listening.
So we're count us as your friends. You know what it made me think of that? I actually I correct me if I'm mistaken. I feel like it might have started last year. So Bumble has a friendship component, so you can go on and hook up with some friends. I mean, I think that that would be a great place to start, especially in a new locale.
It's called Bumble BFF or Bumble Friendship Mode. And you can seek out friendships in the city because, by the way, I agree, it's really hard to make friends as an adult.
Yeah, yeah, and I think, I mean, I think that that's obviously a very practical way to go about it, which I think is right there at your fingertips and could be something you just do right away. In the longer game aspect of it. I'm a big fan of if you're I mean, listen, as long as you're not just sitting in your apartment, if you're going out and doing the things that you love doing, if you look up and don't look at your phone, so don't bumble
bff or bumble friendship mode in this moment. If you are engaging with your environment and you're looking around and everything else you're you're likely going to find people who like to do the same things as you. So I don't know what that is for you, right It might be, might be going to the movies. It might be I want to sound like the oldest lady in the world right now.
Just go to the ladies.
If you could go to your local needle movies and talk to the person next to you.
Strike up a conversation in the middle of you know, sailing private rhyme? How are you doing? Do you have any friends? Just I'm not you know, I don't like to disagree with you, Jess, but I feel like I'm not. I'm just trying to figure out the whole movie theater friendship part.
Also, you shouldn't talk.
Actually, I'm gonna I'm gonna call what it is. I think that's the worst place.
It's the worst advice, the worst Maybe banging on about a movie theater you're lying at getting some popcorn, go to the library where you're supposed to be really quiet.
And just start shouting on everybody.
Oh well, I don't know. Maybe we don't have the answer for this.
Cush is like, what the heck is this advice?
Okay, let's go back to the app.
Okay, no, I know, but listen I on the app there I do agree with you in that you can you can find like a sip and paint or something like that that's in your area. Go have a glass of wine paint. It feels a little bit more community based. There's also cooking classes in every city where you go, you learn to cook together. I feel like it's you're you're doing an activity that also at the same time
as being with other people. And I feel like sometimes doing an activity makes it feel less pressure of like you.
Know, yeah, yeah, like a parallel friend.
Yes, exactly right, That's that's what I would do.
I also think that if you got into uh, like, obviously gyms are great places to meet people, or classes, yoga classes, well.
Hang on, hang on though, the gym is gonna this is gonna that's gonna be a controversial. Take my online. I see people that are very unhappy.
When people talk to you at the gym, at the gym.
At the gym, they're filming other people trying to talk to them. What yeah, because you could you could end up going viral because of Capshaw's all of capshaw suggestions, because I guy talking the movie there and that he's getting filmed at the gym. No, I want you to keep going because this is really entertaining.
Let me just give her more fuel for the fire. Listen.
Awesome, So you have to be tricky. But just when I met in the workplace, and sometimes your workplace buddies are great, and yeah, it's like let's just say, hey, this is a really rough day. Is anyone available to go grab a drink like or just go let's go to lunch right now. Anyone want to get lunch and strike up conversations in the workplace because those are definitely people in your world every single day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think that you might just have to get it, definitely. I think bottom line, and you're already there. You have to want it, and you have to know that getting it means leaving your apartment or leaving your comfort zone and asking someone to go do something or whatever. And also, by the way, you're not going to always you know, get the right person right away. So that doesn't mean to stop trying. Just keep going. Remember I didn't even like Camela when I
met her. Keep trying, keep trying. Just if you work a little bit harder, you'll start to like her.
Yeah, might take months for someone to even like you. Just keep going, keep going.
See I pushed through with Camilla and it's all paid off.
Oh my god. They might find you absolutely intolerable. To keep at it.
You'll get to some kind of gold at some point.
I also think that don't forget that there's other people feeling it's not because it feels very lonely. I had this one I moved to Los Angeles. I felt very lonely, and it feels really vulnerable to have that feeling. And I would by the way I would go to lunch sometimes that I would see groups of girlfriends and I would just stare at them, like WHOA, what's that like? And I'd be by myself and it was hard. But
there are so many people feeling that way. There are people moving all the time as adults, and so you kind of have to shake off the vulnerability of it in order to get out there. Yeah, on the subject, someone asked, with both of us being on a TV show together, did we ever feel competition with each other? And this can happen in shows, and this can definitely happen in big ensemble shows, and that people feel like, well,
maybe I want more storyline. I'm you know how many I'm saying one line this episode or this person's more with the focus. I think that first of all, I have to say that I never felt competition with Jessica Capshaw. But I think it's also because like when I got on the show she played Arizona Robbins, I had there was no part of I couldn't even compete. What was the point there was no like she was one of
the most beloved characters ever. They were so different and I just did not feel that way at all ever with No. I really, I really honestly haven't felt that way on the show No.
And I also I think I do have to say I think that I think that, you know, I think that that can I have had. I have had that at work, not on that on not on gras, on a different show I had. I worked with a woman who was incredibly competitive with me, like nasty competitive, but just do nasty things like you get out of makeup and she'd look at you and be like, are you done?
Did you?
Did you? Are you going back in? Or you're done? You know, my makeup's done? E fal No. It was just like things she can do to make you feel insecure. That's I mean, that's on her and I actually I did kind of know it then, so that was grateful to not take it personally. Again, don't ever take it personally.
I never felt competitive with you. I do think when you're on a show or when you're in a regular job, you know, when someone is you know, got more to do, more responsibility, more chances to shine if you will if that's what you're if that's how you're oriented, Yeah, for sure that can be you know, you can be aware of it. I think that that's that's what I think that I feel the most in friendships. Again, two things
can be true. You can be getting more storylines, and I can be disappointed about that and be happy for you, you know, I mean, like one has nothing to do with the other.
Yes, the only other time I've the only time I felt jealous on our show is when someone's been given just the best storyline and you're like, oh my god, I would love to play that. Like it comes from an artistic thing. You're so happy for them because you're like this is gonna be great TV and they're gonna have a blast. But like you can't help artistically being like, oh I would love to you know, I'd love to like get in on this storyline. But that's you know,
that's life when it happens. I actually think being on a big ensemble show is fantastic because it ends up being very humbling.
Okay, I'm gonna leave you. I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you with this when I you ready tell me bard my memory. Okay, God, I'm gonna take you back. I'm going to take you back to Yeah, skid check my facts. I think it's about twenty ten. Okay, we get word that there's a musical episode. I'm crazy.
It was not part of this I was not part of this episode.
We are going, Yeah, we're gonna have a musical episode.
Let me guess you wanted all the solos, Jessica Capshaw. This was your this was your episode, just my time to shine.
In my mind, all of my musical stylings in the shower. Yeah, did you bring your own mind in all the ways I was going to be discovered. I was going to be discovered. So we go to this coach who's going to sing with us a little bit and like see what we're capable of. Before they get into song selections, you're already laughing. I don't know why. I'm already laughing because I'm realizing you've never told me this story.
So I'm so in. Okay, go we.
Get sent to the coach. She's definitely looking back. Now. She's there to judge. She's there to judge what our abstitute is, what we can do, what we cannot do. Yeah, and I'm feeling confident. Yeah, I'm feeling like, yeah, sure I can do the scales. We get la la la la la. We're gonna have tre la la la. We're
gonna do all the things. It's gonna be great, and we go and then I remember waiting a while because then there were the song selections, and then everybody gets you know, we get the script and in like bold it was when we would sing, and so you could skim through the script to see your name and what was in bold, because that meant you were singing.
Yeah.
Real fans of the show know how much I saw song and how much did you sing? Very little? I sang very little.
Were you in a coma? Did they put you in on an?
I was on the coma. I was not CALLI was in the coma. And Kyler Lee say like a bird and yeah, I mean had so many beautiful songs. I mean the two am that she and she had such she has such a beautiful voice and she crushed it. And again the two things can be true. I can have wanted to have the kind of voice that was gonna get those songs. Yeah, And I was happy for her, but I do remember being like, like, that's cool. I'm only singing that one those two sentences and that one song. That's cool.
Did you have a song in mind where you're like, if I could get this solo?
No, because I didn't know what songs we were doing.
Chasing Cars, Well.
We all sang on that. That was like a whole you know, we all, we all that didn't count. I mean the real solos is what I was talking about. Yeah, yeah, I'm really happy to love about everyone who sang for a lot of time on the show.
There's still time, Jess. I feel like there's a musical in your future. Yees full time. Don't give up on that dream.
Nope, nope, nope, nope. I'm gonna come from abundance. There's more in the universe. For me, that was the song I was sang too, The universe and.
You Universe and you can you give us a little no one of your lines.
No. No. It could be someone.
Listening that's looking for the next big Vegas residency star and they're like, god, if she just sung a line, I know.
Well, they won't be able to tell from my one line in universe and you I did a lot of takes the bets you did.
Oh oh my god, cringees and hurts all at the same time, a real cringe hurt feeling.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
I love that we tackled jealousy.
We have yes see. And by the way, that's why you need a crew, because you got to talk it out. You got to talk it out to get to where you need to be. So I'm very grateful for this Call It crew.
I want to say before we go, it was so fun getting a voicemail today being able to listen to it, hearing your voices. Ah, we want to hear all your voices. So should you feel like you want to, you can contact us at one eight three three seven call It which is one eight seven seven seven two two five five four eight, and leave us a voicemail and we may play it on the show.
I loved hearing from him, and you know what, you get so much emotion from his voice, and like I said, I could tell in a second that I wanted to be his friend.
Absolutely, Cush is.
Capable of making friends and he is going to And if you see a Cush in the suburbs of Philadelphia, go talk to him.
Don't go see a movie with him.
Don't go see a movie with him or try to talk to him during the movie. Go talk to him.
No, no, yes, absolutely all right, so let's call it Jess.
The end of the episode is taping a feat