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On a recent episode of the Business of Biotech , my guest and Ambrick's CEO , daniel Connor , referred to biotech as a place where you can go from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows in 24 hours . Perhaps no one knows this better than my guest on today's show .
After experiencing the lowest of lows at his unexpected departure from pharma-cyclics in 2011 , dr Ahmed Hamdi proved his medal when he bounced back and took his next venture , asurda Pharma , to a multi-billion dollar exit with AstraZeneca . Now he's at it again , this time at the helm of a multimodality clinical stage cancer therapeutics company called Vincerex .
On today's show , we're going to catch up on Dr Hamdi's current work there and we're going to learn how he's applying biotech leadership lessons learned over the course of an at times harrowing career in the space . Dr Hamdi , welcome and thanks for coming on the show . Thank you so much for having me . I'm honored that you would spend some time with us .
I'm thrilled to have you and I don't want to start with the drama . We'll get to that later . I want to start with Vincerex . You've been there for a little over three years now and , as I understand it , your CEO and your director on the board right . Were you a director on the board before you became CEO ? Is that correct ?
Well , i'm also a founder . We started this whole company from the ground up , so let me just give you a little feel of what Vincerex is . I mean we acquire our name from the Latin term Vincere , which means to conquer , and we aspire to conquer cancer by addressing unmedical need with paradigm shifting therapeutics .
And we started the company with a premise that we want to develop drugs for cancer and cancer is a highly unmedical need And we have a very exciting pipeline that we acquired from Bayer that I think can be paradigm shifting And the concept is we want to continue building on our career and adding drugs that can help patients out there in many modalities .
Yeah , so while we're on that topic , give us a sense of , like I said , it's a multi-modality approach . What modalities are you guys playing in ?
So we have a bioconjugation platform that has both antibody drug conjugates and small molecule drug conjugates . We also have a small molecule that modulates CDK9 inhibitor . But it's really the most exciting part of our pipeline . It's how it's differentiated from all other compounds out there .
That differentiation really , in my mind , solves the problems associated with antibody drug conjugates out there .
So I had a question on ADCs in that space , in the complexity and , frankly , a crowded nature of that space right now . I was going to ask it later on , but you just made a beautiful segue , so let's stick there for a minute And I want to talk about two things . In that case , what is it that differentiates Vincerex's approach to ADCs ?
And then maybe that will lead into some conversation around how you're distinguishing the company in , as I mentioned , an extremely crowded field .
So Matt , let me tell you antibody drug conjugates in general . The concept is very cool where you have a specific target that it's expressed on the cancer cell , then you deliver what we're describing as a payload to the cancer tissue .
Now all the other ADCs that are currently in development , the linker that is linking the antibody with the warhead cleaves none specifically cleaves in circulation , whether by cathepsin and interferolastase or diffusion or different modalities .
Also , the warheads that are being used in most of the ADCs right now are microtubulin inhibitors or DNA alkylators , or chemo in general In our case , and that really causes a lot of problems mainly leaky warheads , cleavage before it reaches the target tissue and therefore toxicities , and a lot of safety concerns . That comes from that Our antibody drug conjugates .
It's really designed to solve these problems . Number one we have internalizing antibodies and then we have a linker that cleaves specifically intracellularly by a lysosomal enzyme called legumaine , and legumaine is only expressed in the tumor tissue over the normal tissue and it doesn't cleave in circulation , it only cleaves intracellularly .
Therefore , the whole antibody drug conjugate is stable in circulation . Now the warhead that we're using is not your standard chemo or DNA alkylator or microtubulin inhibitors . It's a spindle protein inhibitor , kinesin . Spindle protein inhibitor . Kinesin protein is a transient protein that is found during mitosis in the G2M phase . It's a transient motor protein .
Now that has been used in the past as a small molecule with a compound called ispinisib in about 16 clinical trials . But it was a permeable warhead or a permeable small molecule , so it may be or may not be present during that transient spindle formation as the cell and the ghost mitosis .
So we solved that problem by adding what we call a cell trap remoyity , so as the antibody internalizes and cleaves intracellularly it releases the warhead , which is a kinesin spindle protein , with a cell trap remoyity which makes it hydrophilic . Therefore it does not pass through the cell membrane .
It accumulates inside the cell until the cell undergoes mitosis , kills the cell and then doesn't go into neighboring tissue . So it's really a very unique design that solves a lot of the problems And we actually , because it's hydrophilic , it allows for high drug antibody ratio . We have a Dar of six .
So it's really pretty promising And we're currently filing the IND for our first compound that should be going to the clinic imminently .
Interesting Is that technology that you mentioned that you started with some acquisitions from Bayer . Does that include that technology ?
Yeah , so we acquired the whole pipeline from Bayer , german Goliath , and initially the idea was focused on the antibody drug conjugates . We have two a VIP 943 , which has a target for CD123 , for AML and MBS .
Then we have another antibody that's targeting CXCR5 , which is first in class And it's highly expressed in B cell malignancies in general , like diffuse large B cell CLL , follicular lymphoma , et cetera . We also acquired our small molecule drug conjugate , which is a completely different modality .
So instead of targeting with an antibody the cancer tissue here we're targeting with a small molecule . It's also highly expressed in the metastases . We also started the company on the bioconjugation platform And because they were very early on as far as getting to the clinic , we needed time to manufacture the drug , do the GLP talks and do the IND enabling work .
We had to build all that And currently we have achieved that . But we also , from Bayer , acquired a CDK9 inhibitor that I believe is truly best in class CDK9 inhibitor . I also have worked on multiple CDK9s in the past , whether AstraZeneca or MCL1 inhibitors . Also my colleagues have worked on Dynacycloid and FlavaPiratol are known to be CDK9 inhibitors .
So the group's knowledge about CDK9 is quite vast And I think the data that we have shows that our compound is completely differentiated and is best in class .
We have actually monotherapy activity And a subset of DLBCL called Double Head Diffuse Large B Cell , where we have two complete responders , and we also have several other indications where patients are coming to a response after being on the drug for more than a year .
So it's really a compound that's designed to chip away at the tumor and it's quite differentiated from other CDK9 providers .
Yeah , i want to get a sense for , if you can , to the extent you're comfortable sharing the origins of that pipeline acquisition Because you know so , we're the business of biotech and we'd like to talk about the origins of a biotech business . And in this case I mean there are hundreds of ways to launch hundreds of permutations anyway around launching a biotech .
You've had quite a bit of experience on the matter , so can you just share with us just a little bit on the backstory of like how Ahmed Hamdi and crew went about acquiring that pipeline and launching a company around it ?
You know I say lucky for us . I can tell you more over a beer , but nonetheless .
I'll hold you to that .
Nonetheless , you know , Bayer wanted to divest their hematology programs and , given our background in hematology and what we've achieved in hematology , we were able to navigate through Bayer . And actually , our chief scientific officer and our chief development officer are both from Bayer . They are the parents of our drug conjugate platform .
They both have been at Bayer for 33 years and they elected to leave Bayer and join Vincerex and come work with us to continue the development of their babies , if you will . So having internal champions also helps .
But , you know , Dr Bird and I have met with senior management and Bayer and I believe it was ASCO of 2019 , and they felt that we are the team that can really take this very exciting technology to fruition .
Yeah , that is exciting . So you mentioned a bit about the candidates . Can you give me a little bit more on the indications , the specific indications you guys are starting with ?
So our first of the clinic is our VIP 943 , which targets a CD123 , which is highly expressed in AML and BAL and MDS . So the first ADC is only targeting AML and MDS and BAL And , as I mentioned , we're very busy writing the IND right now And should be filing the IND imminently and dosing hopefully before the end of the year .
The second target is CXCR5 , which is first in class antibody drug conjugate , targeting CXCR5 . Cxcr5 is a homing signal of the B cells to the bone marrow and the lymph nodes And by interrupting that you interrupt the proliferation of those cells . That is geared for an IND next year .
Really excited about it , and especially , one would say , the B cell world who needs another drug in CLL is more or less cured . I say no , we haven't cured CLL . We've prevented progression of CLL but we have not cured CLL .
Similarly , with the Fuse Large B cell recently , with the development of CAR T therapy and several other antibody drug conjugates like PULA , they come with a hefty toxicity profile And I feel with our antibody drug conjugate having a unique warhead and a unique linker with a unique target , i think we can be quite differentiated And obviously it can work by itself or
even in combinations with earlier lines of therapy , for example , btk , one of my favorite compounds , and if you combine it earlier on in the lines of therapy , you'd be able to get patients to complete remissions rather than prevent progression .
Yeah , i mentioned earlier that I wanted to chit chat a little bit about the volume of players in the ADC space right now , specifically in cancer .
When I get the concept that as a technology matures there's promise and momentum in volume , but generally speaking of market competition in any industry there comes a tipping point where perhaps a too crowded industry creates unnecessary competition and maybe even detracts from progress .
I don't want to put any , i don't want to speculate or put words in your mouth , but I'm just curious what your take is when you've done a survey of that scene .
Thanks for that question because obviously it's something that's always we think about and ask ourselves why are we doing what we're doing ? Cancer still remains a highly unmedical need , even though there are major advances in the last decade or so , helping a lot of patients .
Yet there's still room for improvement because there's a lot of toxicities associated with the current treatments , a lot of morbidity , and , honestly , morbidity of medicine is really something that is extremely big in my mind , not only for the patient but for their families and how they get their treatments .
So we need to develop therapies that are safer for patients and are efficacious and can really lead to a better quality of life . So when you talk about ADCs right now , the concept is extremely cool , it is extremely innovative , but , like I said earlier , the majority of antibody drug conjugates come with black box warnings and precautions .
They're quite toxic And you could have predicted those toxicities if you look at their preclinical packages . A lot of them come with a lot of bone marrow suppression , a lot of liver disease , a lot of cytokine release syndrome and venoclusive diseases and so forth .
In our case , we've done multiple monkey studies in a GLP format where we have not seen those type of toxins And I feel , if you haven't seen it in monkeys , that should translate to the other two-legged model called human .
So I feel that the sum of all parts of our technology allows for safer , better , efficacious drugs , and I like to follow the science And I feel that , yes , we have not been in the clinic yet , we haven't proven it in humans , but so far so good .
All the preclinical work supports the different parts of our technology and that it should be safer and more efficacious . So I'm really excited about that And we're trying to make paradigm shifting therapeutics and I feel this can be it .
Yeah , jumping back to the business growth , it's been a little over three years , three and a half years .
Yeah , we expect at the end of 2020 .
Yeah , And you've made considerable progress . I mean you've got a pretty stout management team , some good clinical progress in the works . Give us a sense for how you've made such progress in a relatively short period of time .
Well , matt , i'm quite thrilled and humbled that I have what I describe as the best drug development team in the world , and it's basically the same team that has worked with me at Pharmacyplix and Asserta .
I feel quite honored and privileged to have people want to work with me after all these years , and it also speaks loudly for them too that it's a group of people that are focused on getting drugs to patients and making a difference in patients' lives . And my team is a team that I bet you .
If you ask anyone why are you doing what you're doing , they're going to tell you we're here to develop drugs for cancer patients . We wake up every morning thinking of how we can develop those drugs . None of the team is driven by the standard money or any of that stuff . It's really driven by the science and following the science .
So when you have a group of people like this to come together and we're a small NIMBLE team with 33 people And we're all driven by making the difference in patients' lives , and that's really the driver of what we do We've done quite a bit in the last couple of years . Two years and a half , three years .
We've taken ideas on paper and now we're filing INDs . The small molecule drug conjugate that's currently we have in dose escalation was an idea on a paper in our chief scientific officers mind when we started the company . And here we are in dose escalation The two antibody drug conjugates . That were only ideas and some experiments done by Bayer .
But then we added more experiments . We added all the IND enabling work . We've manufactured the drug , we've manufactured the linker , manufactured the warheads and we've combined them together successfully . So I feel that quite a bit has been done in the last two years .
We've acquired the CDK9 inhibitor , we've dosed about 60-some patients in a very ambitious phase 1B program . But although because of the market conditions and the need to continue advancing the pipeline , we've paused some of these arms , but it's not I'm giving up on CDK9 . It's because I have to move the pipeline forward and potentially find partners .
Innovation doesn't happen in vacuum , so we're always open in partnering discussions to move the pipeline forward .
What is an ideal partnership scenario look like for you , with specific events Or where you're at right now ? And I know when we talk about ideals in this business it's like , well , you all know that two , three years down the road it might look entirely different , But like right now .
If you had to sort of characterize the ideal partnership , I feel that we are in a very good position from that perspective because we've got multiple things in our pipeline that are part-engrable right , whether it's the CDK9 , whether the small molecule drug conjugate that is currently in the clinic , or even our ADCs .
then , given how differentiated our ADCs could be , i think a lot of big pharma are interested in that type of ADCs . We've all seen the recent deals that are happening across different modalities . Then there's evidence that definitely our technology is quite differentiated . Moreover , we are a research company .
We have quite a bit of research capabilities where we can help other companies build ADCs , fix their ADCs problems or come up with new targets for ADCs . So all of these are potential partnering activities , along with partnering just the linker or the warhead , and we have been quite busy lately with a lot of BD activities that are ongoing .
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Dr Hamdi , you were mentioning earlier sort of the altruistic approach at AdventureX and your team around like being in it for the patient , and I mean , let's be real . Everybody says that .
I have to believe that about you , though , dr Hamdi , because , as I alluded in the intro , you haven't had a super easy road , reaching back a few years in your career , but you could have checked out after the highest of highs that you experienced with your AstraZeneca deal .
I want to get into that story a little bit , to the extent that you're comfortable , because listeners familiar with you , or perhaps with the new book by Nathan Varity , called For Blood and Money . Billionaires , biotech and the Quest for a Blockbuster Drug are certainly going to recognize your name . Ahmed Hamdi are in fact the first two words of the book .
The book opens with your story And that story follows the story of Imbruvica during your time at , and ultimately your departure from , pharmacyclics . I'm not going to ask you to retell that story . If you want to know the story , read the book . That's great , but I'm curious about what that attention has been like .
That book just came out not too long ago And I know it covers sort of a dark spot in your life and career . What's the attention from that book been like ?
Well , i mean , it's quite humbling to be walking down the hallways at Asco this couple of weeks ago and have young physicians stop me and say , oh , are you , dr Hamdi ? You're the guy in the book .
I says , yes , your story is very inspiring And it's very humbling from that perspective And although the path was not easy and very trying at times , but knowing that we have made a difference in hundreds and thousands of patients out there is very rewarding One would always . So why did you continue doing this ? Well , because I follow the science .
I really want to make a difference in patient's lives . And when we started Vincerex , my partner , dr Raquel Azumi , and I were talking and it's like let's do it again . We're still young , we still want to develop drugs , we still want to help patients out there . And she said well , listen , we have two gold medals .
I'm not going to do it unless we have something that's really exciting , that's going to get us the third gold medal . And , to be very honest , we kissed a lot of frogs to find the pipeline that we have .
We've really looked extensively to be able to find the gems that we have and to be able to feel that we can put our names behind them and that we can seek that third gold medal , if not more . And it's not just the financial part , it's really helping patients out . There is what drives us , and the journey was not easy to get to where we are .
But we've learned quite a bit And you'll see in the last page of the book where we're going to try not to make the same mistakes . We're going to make new mistakes .
But hopefully now that's you know .
Hopefully that there are lesser mistakes .
Yeah , looking back on that experience . And of course hindsight's always 20-20 and you never know what the future's going to hold anyway .
But if you were put on the spot to give some advice to a scientist who's breaking into the C-suite of an emerging biopharma company to perhaps I don't know whether the advice he would give is classified as cautionary or discretionary or just a heads up , but what would be kind of on your heart to tell a young Ahmed Hamdi who's walking into the same situation ?
So two things I mean . If we think of an academician that is about to get into the industry , I'm going to tell them hey , listen , it's not always rosy and the grass is not always greener on the other side . And you really need to follow your science And you have to be passionate about what you're doing .
Otherwise you know , like you started , there are days where it's very high and there are days where it's very , very low , And you have to be okay with that . You have to be driven by the end goal , which is getting drugs out to patients , But also for C-sweets that Definitely do not let the money dictate the path for drugs . Try to follow the science .
Be honest with your science . If it doesn't work , kill it early . And if it works , follow the science and keep pushing through . And that is really the key here is to be able to understand and utilize translational medicine and preclinical work , to be able to define paths for drugs , The FDA and the regulatory bodies .
They're out there to approve drugs and they're out there to get drugs safely to patients . And if you use that mentality , you should be able to design trials that are designed for FDA's and regulatory bodies to accept them . So cutting corners is not the way to go , And that's really one of the most important things in my mind And I try to keep following that .
Follow the science , follow the safety and design trials that are thinking through the FDA hat . They're there to ensure safety and reproducibility of your efficacy , So don't cut corners .
Yeah , yeah , follow up on that . You bring up the FDA and the regulatory scene , and that's one that you know . new founders and perhaps first time biopharmacy CEOs obviously don't have a ton of experience with you , do I mean you've , you've , you've won .
You know , I don't mean to make it sound like an adversarial relationship by any means , but but you've won in terms of you know , clear one .
You know . so I'm an early drug developer , right , And I think if you put a drug in the right path from the very beginning , from the phase one , you're setting it up for success . right , you're finding the right doses . You are .
you're now you know the FDA and regulatory body are ensuring that you find your minimal efficacious dose and your optimal dose in profile . So cancer is being treated as a chronic disease . Initially people were getting we're treating cancer , oh , we're only developing chemotherapy , so we can only develop one dose . and but now the world has changed .
Now it's targeted therapies , patient cancer patients can be on a drug for many , many years . So we need to design trials , thinking of the long term effect , thinking of what is the minimal efficacious dose .
So to me , you know , i think of regulatory bodies are there to really support the thinking And if you design your trials very early on , you're going to be able to to get to the point where , like you said , when but it's actually getting drugs out to patients .
Yeah , yeah . So I want to . I want to stay personal for a minute Again , as long as you're comfortable with it . You know if I think about failure and scientific terms , i understand that you're an MD .
You were trained to accept , embrace and move beyond failure scientific failure , experimental failure And I think you know most scientists are trained to do that and they can accept that and move forward . In terms of business and personal lows the , you know , the lowest of the lows , like I mentioned , that that takes a different , i think , mindset to get beyond .
I think I think it takes a different set of of skills and practices to move beyond , like a dismal place in a career and bounce back . And you and you did that . You bounce back and , like you said , there were gold medals , one after the bounce back . I want , like I'm hoping , you can give us some transparent , personal advice on how you move through that .
So , matt , i mean being being fired from pharma cyclists after doing the best work that I've done my career and being thrown out , like you know , yesterday's newspaper , like my partner , like always , says is definitely a very , very difficult thing to endure . It's not an easy thing to be fired .
Nevertheless , when you use that as a catalyst to propel you forward rather than , you know , sit in the corner and win her is the way to go . We can just like , alright , i'm done , and just call it quits To me and my partner .
We use that as a catalyst to propel us forward and to think you know , we need to develop drugs and we need to develop drugs the right way . You know , when we found a Calquins , everybody said , well , it was the best drug there is . And I say , well , it's a beautiful rose , but every rose has thorns . So we followed the science .
We found why a Calabrutanib can be better than a Brutonib , or even as , as good as and I don't want to get into you know which is a better drug , but I'll leave that to to people . But but that's following the science and not taking you know the the drawback , but use it as a catalyst to propel you and open new divorce . It's not easy . It wasn't easy .
It wasn't a walk in the park , yeah not pleasant . I'm sorry .
Not pleasant by any means . No , no , not at all .
But if you use those setbacks as catalysts to move forward , i think is the way to go .
You know , at Vincerex we've implemented something that I'm very proud of And you may have heard the book by Don DeLis and Miguel called the Four Agreements , and we stick with the Four Agreements Speak impeccably , don't take anything personally , Always do your best , don't make any assumptions , and if you put these things together , it really makes a difference .
And if you try not to take anything personally which is not easy , but you just have to do your best and keep on forging forward .
Yeah , what have you found ?
So , again having experienced low Zan highs , coming off of all your experiences coming into Vincerex , like if you had to assess right now what you've found to be replicable as the leader of a biopharma company , and also perhaps what you've learned that learned about avoidance that you can apply now in Vincerex avoidance of mistakes , and this is acknowledging that you
know , in science a lot of stuff is not reproducible and unavoidable , but in terms of leadership , what can you share there ?
So I think the key here is having a vision of where you're going , where is the end goal , and not only just having a vision , but having your team understand what is that vision . If we want to , you know , file a 90 , why are we filing this ? Why is it going to make difference in patients' lives ? Why is this drug differentiated ? Why do we feel so ?
The understanding of the end goal by the team , i think , is very key , and not and having people believe in what we're doing And I mean I speak for my team right now . Everybody's really science driven And if we believe our science , then we all are moving in the right direction and we're all moving towards that goal .
You know , i feel that you know , all leaders have to make their team understand why we're doing what we're doing .
And I think this is the key , and I'm trying to use this concept of Vincerex at all times where people are understanding why we're doing what we're doing , believing in the science that we have , questioning each other , really challenging our assumptions at all times . This way , you know , we're not just going because Ahmed said so .
I like my team to challenge me , i like my team to ask questions , i like my team to come up with ideas . I always , you know , say if you find a problem , don't just give me a problem , give me a problem with . What are the solutions ? What are we supposed to think ? How are we going to think through it And I don't dictate what needs to be done .
We try to come to a consensus and how to move forward , and having people that believe in what they're doing makes things much easier .
Yeah , yeah . That belief , the belief in what you're doing and the , i guess , consistency of effort toward what you're doing , is something that , without formal reminders or venues to drive that mission , can be forgotten . Right , not forgotten , but it can wane , it can wane .
Can you share any advice on how , to what forums and formats are appropriate or necessary to maintaining that communication of the vision ?
Oh , thanks for that question . So I think the critical here is to have every program team come up with their own plan of how to develop this drug . And then ownership yeah , And there's ownership of the team of what to do .
And then it's my role and Raquel's role is to challenge the assumptions right And have the team come up with this is the plan and here's why this is the plan . And then by doing so , everybody's bought into what we're doing and why we're doing it .
Of course , If you have experience , you'd be able to share your experiences and say I thought thinking of this is better in AML because , for example , this is better in CLL , because So there has to be a distilling of the science and challenging assumptions and having the team buy into it and have ownership of why we're doing what we're doing .
Yeah , very good .
It just occurred to me that I should mention to our audience that I believe correct me if I'm wrong here . I believe my colleague Ben Comer at Life Science Leader magazine is working with you and Dr Izumi on a story for an upcoming issue of Life Science Leader . So if you're interested in the Vintseer X story and Dr Hamdi's story , be sure to check that out .
What issue ? but I think it's probably coming up here mid to late summer . So thank you for sharing your stories with us . Thanks .
Ben .
Yeah , tell us , so we know we're heading into the clinic . What else is next for Vintseer X ? What's on the immediate horizon ?
So our VIP 943 , as I mentioned , is going in the clinic right now . Finally , everybody's really busy these days writing the IND and should be filed imminently . I'm really excited about that program for AML and MDS .
Our small molecule drug conjugate is currently in the clinic with a dose escalation in advanced metastatic solid tumors Very exciting program And all these are progressing nicely forward . Next year we're planning our CXCR5 antibody drug conjugate . Obviously , we're also quite busy with potential partners and partnerships and things like that .
My medicinal chemistry team , our chief scientific officer , our chief development officer , are quite busy working on next generation ADCs Because we have a very unique linker and the capability of different types of linkers .
There's more work that we're actually doing with linkers that cleave intracellarly or linkers that cleave extracellarly , along with different types of warheads that we are working with . So there's more to build into our pipeline that we are currently working on . So it's a very exciting time for Vintseer X .
Yeah , for sure . I wonder what's on the horizon for you . I don't want you to divulge more than you're comfortable divulging , but beyond the work that you're doing at Vintseer X , are there any updates on Dr Hamdi that we should be aware of ?
Well , i'm very excited to be part of the UC Santa Cruz bimolecular engineering department at the Baskin School of Engineering . I'm also a dean's counsel and a drug professor . My dream is , at some point , that one day I'll develop a translational sciences master's program where drug development is a discipline that you learn on the job .
Nobody teaches you how to do a clinical trial . Nobody teaches you how . So my dream is to educate graduates . What does it take from bench side to bed side ? So , which is basically the space that I've been living in in the last , you know , more than a decade or so . Well , that's the same for the two decades , but it is educating people .
I'm not going to teach them molecular biology or chemistry or whatnot , but it's what to do with it How to design preclinical studies that supports drug development , how to design clinical trials . What does it take to take from the bench idea all the way to the bed side ? So that would be one of my full future goals .
That's fascinating And I mean there's certainly a real opportunity for that . I'm amazed . I've had some calls with academics recently And I've been really . It's really been eyeopening to realize just with some pretty big research universities . It's really been eyeopening to me to realize just how disconnected academia still in some cases remains from industry .
And it's that translational link , i think , that is missing . I mean we see a lot more partnership probably than we did 10 , 15 , 20 years ago , but that translational aspect still seems to be a big gap there .
Absolutely . That's exactly the point . But again , for example , i had a student at UC Santa Cruz that I was mentoring and she came and interned at Vincerex and now she's an employee at Vincerex And she says this is the best thing I've ever done in my life . I was born to do this And by young scientists understanding what drug development is .
It opens a lot of doors And I'd love to be a catalyst for young scientists to understand that there is a path in drug development .
Yeah Well , that connection solves multiple problems , because we also constantly hear about the fact that it's really hard to find good help in this space . So your connections to academia and , i guess , the understanding of translational research serving you well by recruiting some good employees too .
Yeah , that's the ulterior motive .
All right . Well , the secret's out now . What haven't I asked you that I should have Dr Hamdy Like ? what element have I failed to ask you about your story that we should have spent more time on ? That's a tough one . Well , conversation for that beer you mentioned .
Exactly . Well , i mean , look what is critical here that myself and my team are really driven by science and wanting to make a difference in patients' lives . And drug development is not a simple , easy path And it's never .
It's never rosy is what people think , and it's not driven by money And it's not oh , my God , you're going to be a gazillionaire because you've done that . Yes , some investors will be gazillionaires , but that's not the driver . And understanding that science and what we do is critical for patients' lives down the road .
And I always ask my team would you put your mother on that clinical trial ? And that is very important . And when you start thinking from that perspective , i think all things come together And for me , drug development is a calling and for my team , And .
I feel that we want to continue doing what we're doing and hopefully we'll make a difference in people's lives .
Well , i appreciate you for the illustration of resilience that you are , dr Hamdi , and I appreciate you for coming on the show and spending some time with us and sharing your story . Thanks for having me , matt , my pleasure . So that's Vince Rex , ceo , dr Ahmed Hamdi . I'm Matt Piller and this is the Business of Biotech .
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