Episode 58: Mentorologists with Isaac Bermudez

He's also a co-founder and advisory board member of the Latino Association for Behavior Analysis, a co-founder of Mentorologists and he serves on the board of the Association of Professional Behavior Analysts APBA. Isaac, welcome to the pod dude.

At that time, I had two young kids, all of this was self-funded, shoestring budgets, you know, building things outta my dining room table, you know, the typical entrepreneurial thing. I think what I didn't anticipate in that first entrepreneurial run is the amount of work that it takes. How much I didn't know, how much making a move like that could ruffle feathers of existing jobs that I had. I dealt with, some wild things. I was, followed by private investigators and stuff like that.

I mean, I tell you, it was, it, it got, it got wild. And, I just didn't anticipate a lot. So I made a lot of mistakes in my transition from working for somebody to building my own practice that I think if I could change, I would do things different, with, a little bit more communication, better communication. Some of the things I probably could have avoided, some of the heartache that happened.

But, you know, that, that was the start of that journey and, it was my introduction, the school of hard knocks of learning, the business side of things. I've been a clinician at heart and that was what drew me to the field. But I think, learning all the other business mechanics of things, uh, finances, hr, labor laws, you know, I had to learn on the spot.

I made some mistakes and through those mistakes, started to develop the repertoire of what it is to build a business, how to select the right, people around you that align with your values, and all of that, and ultimately, after, several years, the alignment or misalignment of values, was what, led me to exit that company. I mean there's tons I could probably go into, but I think it's better left with just saying that, it ended up not working out long term for me.

and there was a lot that I sacrificed, along the way of bumps and bruises, in that initial, entrepreneurial, journey. But what I really, learned from it, you know, all the skills in building something from scratch, because I think uh, you can't replicate that. You can't learn about it in textbooks, building something from scratch with your two hands and, not having a paycheck for a year with two young kids and living off of savings.

Just the, um, the risk that one tolerates and, the delayed reinforcement that one gets themselves into was, a lot of the lessons that I learned in my future professional positions, from that point on. so yeah, to answer your question, that first run was, uh, was a whole other PhD in the school of hard knocks, it was, uh, highs and lows on that one. Yeah.

And this is in the Reno, lake Tahoe area in outdoor education and one of the first things we did, we had this little fundraiser, which was like a March Madness fundraiser. Right now Nevada has some really like specific laws around gambling and whatnot. So we like dotted our eyes, crossed our Ts.

But the organization that I had left, like similar as you described, like as you, as you leave organizations, cuz in my case it was an organization that wasn't headed in a direction that was gonna actually solve the needs that kids in schools had. So started this new organization Sierra Nevada Journeys, ran as fundraiser and I kid you not three days after it started, got a call from the Nevada Gaming Commission saying, we here to report that you are in violation.

And it was heck no, we're not I showed him all the documentation, but it's a good example that like, starting this quest to start something new to solve a problem and a pain point that we see as entrepreneurs, it can sometimes ruffle feathers and that's just part of that journey but you know an important part of now your journey with, um, Brett DiNovi and Associates is sort of this notion of intrepreneurship, which is a little bit different, but very similar to entrepreneurship.

Can you talk a little bit about that BDA and what intrepreneurship is?

So that whole idea of like, I don't answer anybody, to me was a crock of, you know. so that, that's one of the lessons that I learned. So the sexiness of that started, dying out a little bit and I really learned, that entrepreneurs have these traits in their dna, that are just so different, you know, and, and I don't have some of those traits.

I, I could take risks, I could do all the things, but there are some different mechanisms that, that entrepreneurs are wired with that, are just different. but I still have the, I still have the itch. I still have the, the repertoires that I developed. And I love to create, I love to build, I just, started, learning that I don't have to put everything on the line always to experience entrepreneurialship.

so with the lessons that I learned in building a company, you know, I, then went to a different company and helped grow that company. I think we, quadrupled in size while I was there and, were able to do a lot of great things. and I was proud of the work that, that we did there. When I met Brett, um, you know, Brett is one of those classical entrepreneurs. I, I respect and appreciate so much of how he's wired. he approached me with the opportunity to build something outta California.

The company's located in New Jersey, and they're across the East coast. So that kind of brought the, uh, entrepreneurial itch again. And, you know, I had to go back into the vault of entrepreneurial behaviors and say, okay, let's do this. I've done it once, I can do it again. Um, but now with, the safety of, there's somebody here to support me, somebody to mentor me in this next level of entrepreneurialship. So, um, that, that kind of brought to light this whole concept of intrepreneurialship.

And another passion of mine from early on has been, OBM Organizational Behavior Management and the strategies that our science, provides in that branch. So by using the skills that I learned in grad school of pinpointing, goal setting, self-monitoring, reporting out, uh, feedback and reinforcement, we set up a system to, build California and, it's something that we've successfully built. We're in three regions here in Southern California.

We provide services through insurance, through, early intervention, through school district. We employ over a hundred staff. It was something that, that we were able to do in four years. So that particular concept of intrepreneurialship, I've also encouraged my staff. And, I love when my staff are hungry to build when they wanna create a niche. And that really, has helped me share the, passion that I have for building along with the staff.

And we use the same, five principles of pinpointing, goal setting and so on. And I've had staff that have, built early intervention programs and, they get paid for performance out of it. We find ways to incentivize them so they get a chance to build, they get a chance to earn off of that, and in the end, it builds the company and it continues to, share our services with those that are in need. But, you know, It also, incentivizes them, and gives them access to this entrepreneurial experience.

So, Isaac, what is it in your current role that keeps you up at night and what are the things that make you excited to start every day?

we were literally faced with, uh, either we turned things around now or we shut down, you know? I had to look at my team and, you know, bless them because they, they turned right back around, they said, not on our watch is this thing gonna go down. and that put everybody in grind mode. and not only did we get through covid, but we were able to multiply and take advantage of new funding sources.

And I think, the innovation in the midst of chaos that, that created, um, is something that I'm now very well aware of. so when you say, what keeps you up at night? It's one, continuing to create, and the other one is, protecting the hard work that everybody's done. I was, the person that got the opportunity to do the initial build, but without, staff members that came in right after me like Laura and just so many different, staff members that also poured into building BDA California.

I have a responsibility to them to keep things, sustainable, um, be able to reinvest back in them and our services and our clients and our quality, so those are things that keep me up. But, to me it's exciting because it just, it puts me in a creation mode of trying to figure out where we could diversify, how we could create, additional sustainability but not compromise quality. And I mean, all those things to me is what, what drives me and creates that passion.

And so I think that's really neat. You mentioned earlier this idea of repertoires of behaviors. And in another conversation you and I had, you talked about when you sit on a board, for example, there's a certain repertoire of behaviors. So I'd be curious, you serve on the board of APBA, many of our listeners, are aspiring board members and different nonprofits to other organizations. I'm curious, what are those repertoires of behaviors?

but I enjoy the challenge because it's something that makes me very uncomfortable. What I fall back on, to be honest, is, just to be of service. So, when I'm on the board surrounded by a amazing professionals and super intelligent people, I try to do what I feel I could do best is just be of service, contribute, with any experience that I have, but also, with what I could do to support the mission of APBA, which I've always been, a big supporter of, the mission that they've been trying to do.

so yeah, so I'm learning and trying to build that repertoire. I wouldn't be able to explain what repertoire you would need, because I'm still learning that.

I see an evolution of APBA and the contributions that it'll make to the field. I think it's got a great foundation, a great history, and um, and I'm excited to see, this new era of APBA, so that's what I'm excited about.

Um, and he pulled myself and my colleague Ruth Tello-Di Leva. it was back in 2015, even before a lot of the prominent social unrest that we've been experiencing over the last years. He just, he saw the disparity that there was in Bipoc professionals. Underrepresented, so to speak, professionals in our field.

Uh, and when you take a look at boards, when you take a look at leadership positions, you don't see a good representation of those bipoc individuals, uh, Latino professionals specifically in this, in this case.

So that's really what created the passion for me and sparked me and my involvement in creating Laba along with Jose and Ruth, is to really, engage an activity To support, a larger representation of Latinos in our field, to inspire them, to teach 'em, to mentor them, and give them the confidence that, they could also have, as the cliche says, a seat at that table as well. to our knowledge, we were one of the first associations to really tackle diversity.

Um, I know it's become, a hotter topic with where the world has gone. but back then, we were really one of the first and, it was really off of that mission to, focus on diversity and to target professionals that, were underrepresented, to get them the confidence to get them out there and leader in our field.

I know there's a fast track mentorship program, laba, there's the Mentorologist that you started. Can you tell me a little bit more about how you think about mentorship?

And just that void that I had, created this, this passion that whenever I get to that position, I don't want anybody to feel that way. So when I decided that this was gonna be my career and I went to grad school. Even in grad school, I was kind of looking for somebody to take me under their wings, you know, I was like, I wanna be a student. I wanna be, uh, the best I can. And, I really, I love the grad program that I went to, but I didn't have that experience.

There were people that were instrumental my life, but really, um, Jose was the one that, that grabbed me and took me under his wings. and that's when I really, I found the power of mentorship and the change that having somebody invest in you makes in, in your life. And, I wouldn't be where I'm at today without people investing like he has.

So, when I became a supervisor, I really worked hard to provide support and to me, it was just such a obvious and logical thing that the science that we use to improve the lives of our clients could also be used with our staff. And I was just starting out, so it was just something that seemed obvious to me, so that led me to dive into what that science was. I did research and I discovered OBM.

Um, and at the time, I really fell in love with OBM I fell in love with, you know, seeing the applications that we're using with our clients being used on staff and performance improvement and so forth. I did my thesis research on an OBM package. and, you know, that really became a big part Of my work.

so I think mentorship from early on was something that I yearned for, something that I received and felt the power for, and something that to me, if there's one thing that I could do for the rest of my life is support others to be the best professionals they could be and to, create opportunities for them. I lead through mentorship. I don't know how else to lead.

I just lead through trying to invest in people and, uh, and trying to see that they become successful even if sometimes they kick and scream. all I ask for is patience and for them to believe in my investment in them. And I will do everything I can. And when I can't do anything else, I'll just tell them I've done everything I can and I just don't have anything else.

Maybe there's somebody else that could help you, but it's always, trying to lead with the idea of, I want to create opportunities for you so you could be the best person, that you could be the best professional, and to work in a space that you feel passionate about every single day.

LABA as a association, does an intensive mentorship program, it's, an intensive group that meets regularly, uh, to, uh, just dive into all aspects of professional development. speaking to the quote of we're only as good as the leadership that we're providing and the outcomes of our staff. everybody that's been consistently a part of the Fast Track program at La LABA is, the achievements that they've done, have been great.

So I, I always say, I could look at data as one measure of outcome, but I could also look at the individual performance. And to me that, that's like the most important data when I take a look at individuals and how far they've come, through these programs, and I think of, those that have been part of that program who are now, a lot of 'em are on the advisory board of laba. They are leading organizations. They're currently, they're on the board of calaba, they've been on boards of other things.

Um, I mean, as part of my experience with laba, you know, that's what encouraged me to join the APBA board, so I think those are the things that are at the root of the mission of LABA that this mentorship, uh, supports, encourages, and to me that's the outcomes. Is seeing these same individuals do exactly what we set out to do in 2015.

So, um, so I'm really proud of the work that Jose and that Fast Track team has done, because that's what it's all about, is, uh, creating those opportunities and instilling the confidence and being able to tackle, those positions and those opportunities. I continue to hear from young professionals. I do, uh, the majority of our interviews for BDA California, and I constantly hear, I'm not getting enough mentorship, I'm not getting enough mentorship on and on.

And finally I said, I've had enough, we're gonna put together a mentorship program and just to blast it out on social media. It's like, Hey, we're creating a mentorship group who's interested. I was hoping to get three or four people and. That'd be great. We'll start of a group and if they like it, they'll share with their friends and then we'll put together a group similar to an executive coaching program, uh, but using behavioral analytic principles.

but the max would have to be 12 because too many in a group would just be too chaotic and I'd rather create additional groups. So, uh, mentorologist was, was kind of born out of that, out of The constant hearing of, young professionals on our field, not getting enough mentorship. Um, as well as you could just look at the data, which I'm sure we're all familiar with the, uh, number of new BCBAs in our field over the last several years. I mean, we could all picture what that graph looks like.

So, um, the need for. Quality mentorship, supervision, and a space outside of the workplace. Because I also run a company and I know when you're, busy with, productivity stuff and your, services for clients and all that stuff. Sometimes it gets hard to really dive into the things that you wanna do in mentorship. So this became non-denominational and it wasn't about, you know, which company are you in? Or you have to be a my company versus your company. It was open to whoever's was interested.

And we always respected and we continue to respect, boundaries with what people wanna share, don't wanna share. there's not specific client information that's discussed and stuff, but it was a space for us to, Check in with each other, uh, to identify goals that we're working on as a group. use mentorologist as an accountability space where, we report out on how we're doing on our goals. we tackled three main areas. We tackled, professional goals, family and health.

so it wasn't just about let's only talk shop. It was also about, let's just talk about our own health and family life, because that impacts our work. Um, part of that was, also bringing in a guest mentor to do a guest presentation, that was part of the, monthly mentorologist experience. of course with Covid, being able to meet in person kind of went away. So this became all on online and remote. Um, and then that guest mentor became a webinar series.

so now that webinar series has gone on for, since Covid started, I think two and a half years. Uh, and we've had some amazing speakers. So that's been able to share the mentorologist passion to a larger audience. We've had international people come and attend these webinars and stuff, so, it's kind of gone in different directions based on just having to pivot from Covid as you know, we had to do with so many things.

But, again, this is, bringing mentorship to, those that are wanting to be part of the group. we've been able to create several groups, and we're looking to see where, where it goes. So that's mentorologists.

So I didn't have an open executive position at BDA California. But, you know, I wanted, uh, to see if she was interested in building a new program for us. So what I did is, um, is we talked about it, we kind of set out what the goals were and we were able to pinpoint, uh, certain activities as part of that work, where, the ultimate goal was to, uh, develop and provide service to an early intervention clientele here in Orange County. So, we pinpointed, uh, some outcomes.

Uh, we set goals in terms of when we were gonna try to achieve those outcomes. there was a self monitoring and report out process. Every week we would take a look, we would create visibility, uh, track our progress using data and, monitor that we were training in the right direction. Um, all the goals had to pay for performance.

So as she was hitting milestones, she was earning bonuses as part of this work she was doing, which kind of started to create this intrepreneurial experience where she was, getting bonused out for hitting milestones. and the feedback was our weekly meetings as well as the graphic feedback of, you know, the visibility that we would create. So, by doing this, we, we kind of chipped away in, in about eight months.

we were able to fully develop this program with the funding source here in Orange County. and we now serve an early intervention clientele. She runs the program and now we, uh, we pivot to, what are gonna be goals for that particular program within BDA California. is it gonna be increasing, the number of clients that we're able to serve, you know, being able to, take that program to other regions, things like that. so it kind of continues, and.

It's based off of, her current passions, um, and what we could do with a program like that to serve the community. all of that again, you know, just like my journey, from nothing to, building BDA California, there was no early intervention program. And through work like that, she was able to build it, in not too long of a time. So, um, that's kinda one example. there's many, many other examples, but, um, it's just one example of how I use the OBM package to, support intrepreneurialship.

I mean, certainly in our field, but across all of business, all of healthcare. So that's, it's such important work that you're doing. I'm gonna make sure we drop a link in the show notes to Mentorologists um, so, so people can find you there.

You know, my thesis was on, uh, on goal setting, visual feedback, very much the, the same variables. So it just became, very harmonious, collaboration with, the work that I've done with Brett and also Paulie when he was with Brett Denovi Associates. So, uh, so yeah, so it's been a cool, a cool experience.

So to me, what business leaders should do is, is not lose sight of the people that work in the business and continuing to find ways and innovate, on how to keep our people, retain them, um, how to, help them be more successful and how to help them leverage that into their own success, which ultimately will, will be the business success.

Um, but I think the people is where it's at, it's too easy to get lost in the financials and, you know, the hours and what we're billing here and, uh, all the operational metrics that, you know, I think at the end of the day, it's about the people. So, it always brings me back to mentorship. It brings me back to how we could coach and we could, how we could be of service and be servant leaders to the people that are driving those metrics.

every metric has a face, you know, so we have to be, be sure to, invest in those that are driving those metrics. and I would say the opposite what we shouldn't be doing is, uh, only focusing on the metrics. because I think, that's where you kind of get some of the, uh, the tough stories of businesses closing, when it's just all about that they're, it's important, we all know the. The quote, no margin, no mission. but there's always a face behind those, those numbers.

So that's to me where it starts. So I think that's the most important thing.

we just launched our YouTube channel, for Mentorologists so if, people want to get cool sound bites from amazing professionals that have contributed to, Mentorologist content, check it out cuz it's, uh, something we're putting a lot of work in to, uh, be able to continue giving back and sharing the knowledge.