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Great to see you again, sir, Thank you.
Great to see you both.
So, Jeremy, you have just released some stunning new footage that you have obtained. Why don't you set up a little bit about this new revelation before we play some of the video from your podcast breaking it out?
Sure, Yeah, this is an open investigation. We're doing something different this time. We're crowdsourcing actually to military, trying to get more information, more data. But here here's the basics. In twenty twenty one, I got a tip from a couple bases actually that there was an event, but that's all that I got, and all of a sudden, I started I was like, how am I gonna get to the bottom? Miss started calling around. I found people on the ground, over fifty eyewitnesses at one of the biggest
military installations on planet Earth. It's called twenty nine Palms Military Base, Camp Wilson. Specifically, these marines they said to me, they reported to me that they saw a craft, a triangle shaped craft, and I was like, get all the footage, go air drop, get it from everybody. So within thirty six hours, I've got witness testimony. They're telling me what's going on, and a whole bunch of videos and photos. The videos, I was like, there's gotta be flares. It's
like black night, you see lights in the sky. But then I got a low light photo from an iPhone because they were switching from video to photo, video to photo, so multiple angles. And when I saw this image, I'm like, there might be meat on this phone. You can see the outline of a craft. And so if the report is true, if what all these marines are telling me, I thought I had to dig in. So that was
like almost two years ago. Man, did I dig in try to get every source I could, and here we are today where I kind of got to the end of that I need more witnesses. There was a huge response from the base. Of course, there was a training exercise. There's always a training exercise going on there. It's a training facility. However, this was completely out of the ordinary. So I dug in, got information, and man, this crowdsourcing
thing is working. Just within the last twenty four hours, I am bombarded with individuals that were there with new photos, new images. So this is going to be an updating story.
But wow, that's incredible.
So let's take a look.
We actually have you got multiple videos and images, but we have one of those that we can show folks that looks as you describe it. I think there's five lights that you can see here that are in sort of a triangle formation. This to me was actually the most stunning. But I think we have video as well, guys that we can play.
Let's take a look at it.
If you look in the picture, you can see like a black trying your shape. Why are these not flares.
Because they stayed their first solid ten minutes just in the same spot.
And flares don't sit in one spot for ten minutes. No, they definitely they fall, So you personally know that these were not flares. Do you believe this was a craft?
Yeah?
I would have to believe show with the picture I took with the black trying your shape underneath the lights. It's definitely not any type of like flare, illumination rounds or anything. I didn't need to budge in, but I worked with ar Hillary and we shoot illumination rounds out of our already guns into the air to loom infantry guys.
And this was nothing compared to what that is like.
This was something none of us had ever seen before.
It was completely different colored.
Can you tell us a little bit more of what we're seeing there because it seems like it's sort of hovering in one spot, but maybe making a little bit of movement. What can you glean from both the videos and what eyewitnesses are telling you?
Yeah, so what's been reported to me is this thing sat there between ten and twenty five minutes, absolutely motionless, not descending, not acting like normal flares. And these are experts, you know you heard that artillery man they shoot flares. I talked to a bunch of helo pilots, So that duration is what's really interesting. Now I have footage if I link it together, that spans six minutes, but I know there's footage from the beginning that it came out,
and again it's between ten and twenty five minutes. So they're baffled, their perplexed, and remember most of them, a lot of them could see an actual body of a craft. Luckily, they shot up what they call illumination rounds because because at first I'm like, that's got to be flares. Well, they shoot up these illumination rounds, which are flares that slowly descend to illuminate the body of the craft. And as it was getting close to that body, the thing just,
i mean, in their own words, vanished. And I said, what do you mean, did the lights go out? And they're like, no, the shape of what we saw also, it just it was gone. So at that point I was like super interested, and that's when I dug in and tried to get as much as I could of the reporting.
One of the things that bothers me, Jeremy, is that, as you said, you've kicked this the open source, but that I actually think it's very courageous. But as of course, invites the critics and they're like, oh, well, it was obviously a training exercise.
It was just flares, Like, how can you pep with this?
It's as if you had not considered that in two years reporting that not specifically asked in the podcast, are you sure this wasn't a flare?
How do you know it wasn't a flair?
And these guys are like, I literally do this for a living. I see them all the time. This is not a flair. I was there, I witnessed the event, and I'm telling you that this was completely different. So in terms of you reference the open source outside of the what I think is at this point it's it's obvious. It's like whenever you're questioning the pilots themselves involved in the incidence, It's like, okay, if you were really think you know better than.
The pilot, then that we're not really having a discussion.
What are some of the things that you have gleaned so far from the open source kicking this to a crowdsourcing investigation that view is legitimate that can answer more questions about this incident.
Yeah, well, first of all, when I say open source, I'm not talking about people behind their keyboards. I'm talking about direct eyewitnesses that were there that we're part of it. If we can solve this case, if it is prosaic. If I get a pilot that said I dropped five flares and people misunderstood that, I'm going to report that. But you know what's interesting is that when this occurred,
you just have this abundance of information. As you saw, it was within thirty six hours, and you hear me saying, you know, this has got to be flares, and they're rebuting that. So I can't I dismiss all the eyewitness reports because that is evidence and I need to dig into that. Now, look, if this ends up being prosaic or something, that's the dirty job of investigating UFOs. We have to figure it out. But without having that conversation,
it'll never happen. And you got to talk to people that were there, that are experts that actually saw it. That's how this case is going to get solved. So when I'm looking at all these UFO cases, some of them I know for sure, and I have more data. I have radar, I have thermal, I don't have all of that for this case. So I, like you, am interested. We're just trying to solve this case, and this is the best way I thought to do that.
Can you talk a little bit more about that, Jeremy, because I'm sure you get tons of tips all the time. How do you go through the process of sorting through what is legitimate, what has some sort of mundane explanation. What is the process that you go through, because I'm sure there are people who are watching who are like, all right, but this is this guy wholebeat like he's really into this, he's looking for it to be something
weird and unexplainable. So take us through what your process is to rule out some of the tips that you receive.
Thank you for that question, because you know ninety nine percent of my emails every day is like, that's Starlink, that's Venus. You know, that's people don't understand that I'm skeptical about. There's probably more than they are, right, of course, it's interesting. I'd love for a good case. But the thing is is that when I get information, people say, well, why didn't you release this too, you know, almost two years ago when it came Because I don't just take
something frivolously throw it up onto the internet. And say, hey, check it out. What I do is I take my time. I get to know the people. I make sure their stories don't change over time. I ask them to call their friends to go collect more data, more information. I vet their d D two fourteens if they're out of the military. If they're in the military, I have people I can call to confirm their position. I get their
fitness reports. I make sure people are who they say they are and that they don't have some agenda to trip me up or to get me to put something out that is faked. So I take my time. My cases take years. The first word people hear from me if they end up getting through the barriers and we're on the phone is you got to have patience with me. I'm on cosmic time. This could take years for me to report on it. So that's what I do, Crystal,
is just really take my time. And if I have something like this that we got to get to the bottom up and I can't do it on my own, then I reach out and ask for more information.
I love that, and Jeremy.
One thing is one of the reasons why people like you are so important is it's one of the only ways we actually get the truth about what's going on on the inside. We covered the recent testimony that was happening before Congress, and the government and the supposed officials that are charged with transparency don't appear to have any interest in transparency. Do you want to speak a little bit about that after that recent hearing?
Yeah, I do. It's so funny every time George Napp and I have pain and release, you know, formally classified but inherently unclassified videos and information. You see these hearings where they take things that look similar and then they try to show a resolved one. It's almost surreal, Sagar. I'm not sure you know what it's like to be in my brain in those moments, but I'm watching this. The transparency level is so low. Just think about it. Arrow has had over two dozen people come and tell
them where the hardware is. I know that is a fact because these people came to me first. I know that they're going through these classified projects and to hear nothing about that in the hearings, it was very discouraging to the people that worked on these exploitation programs. Know the program names, know where the hardware is at.
You know.
I have hope that that's going to come out. But I will tell you this, and this is really exciting. I am directly involved with making sure that the public gets to hear directly from these individuals in open hearings.
Am.
I am absolutely one hundred percent working on that behind the scenes with people in Congress in Senate. It's going to be really interesting if we can achieve this goal of having this out of the classified forum and into the public setting. And I am highly, highly optimistic and
encouraged that that is going to happen. I can't put a date on it, but I can tell you I've talked with all of these people and it is in process and people are pumped to basically get this information into the public record.
Excellent, excellent, my friend. Well, we need you more than ever. We appreciate you joining us, sir, Thank.
You, thank you for covering this. Both of you.
Always fun whenever the lamestream fake news New York Times catches up with what's going over here on breaking points. It's not even that particularly substantive, but it is a pet project of mine which I usually keep to Twitter and Instagram, and that is the way that our politicians dress. So let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen. I was personally outraged at this meeting of the minds in which three out of the four congressional
leaders all wore dress sneakers in the Oval office. Hakeem Jeffreys was the worst, wearing a straight up white souled, genuine sneaker with also ill colored socks.
Yeah with his hideous.
Mitch McConnell you can't see it as well, he's wearing a black shoes, which is what would be called for with the outfit that he's wearing, but it also includes a sneaker sole which has holes in its almost like a Nike Air type soul.
Hideous.
Also, Kevin McCarthy was wearing a dark navy suit, and the problem is is he wore light brown shoes also with a white sneaker sole. So the only person who's appropriately dressed in this photo is Chuck Schumer in terms of Congression leaders. And look a lot of common criticism here, but she's appropriately dressed. She he's wearing dress heels. President Biden is also wearing black dress shoes. So the big debate was do dress sneakers.
Belong in the Oval Office? Now?
I do not think dress sneakers belong anywhere as long as you're wearing a suit. It's just really the it's two mismatches of what you're doing. But they actually quoted me in this because I was outraged about the Ted Lasso. Guys, let's go to put this up there on the screen where I tweeted several weeks ago. Call me old fashioned, but no man should set foot in the office without dress shoes, especially not sneakers, and said, I said, four guys, no ties, three sneakers in the oval. This country is
going to hell. What I was referencing is the ted Alasso photo. Can we put that up there please so that people can see it? And look, I don't watch ted Lasso, so I don't know whose characters are, but I know Jason sadeka is is what you can see is Jason is wearing nikes. Two others are also wearing sneakers, straight up sneakers.
None of them are wearing ties. Now one gentleman is.
Wearing black dress shoes, which is great, but he's not wearing a tie. And I just think it's crazy that the only person who is appropriately dressed in this photo, who is visiting as a guest is the woman, Like, why are women apparently the ones who are abiding by proper dress norms and standards every time they're coming to the Oval.
Look at President Biden and First Lady Jill. They look great.
They're wearing exactly what you should be wearing whenever you're there. And this comes back to just like A, it comes back to what actually looks good and B it's like it's about respect, Like you're in. I'm not saying that people shouldn't wear casual clothes.
People always say.
That, like, oh, are you saying like construction workers should work. No, when you're on construction job, then wear construction clothes whenever you go out to eat. Yeah, maybe don't look like a bum. I don't think it's so much to ask you should care about how you look. There's a ton of evidence actually that caring about how you look actually is very good for your self esteem, for your health overall. So that's one empirical case as to make for it.
But what do you make of this general controversy?
Can we put the ted lasso one back up?
Because I got a questioned on this one. The guys that aren't wearing the suit, yeah, and have the sneakers if they weren't in the Oval office.
Do you object to the looks?
So, I mean, here's the issue.
I just think that that's very First of all, Jason's dedecas is rich and he's good looking. He's the one he's the ted Lasso guy on the far left in the blue sweaters to Jill.
He's the one who's ted Lasso closest to Joe Biden.
He is wearing what would be described as like that's not quite business casual, that's more like San Francisco cool. Now here's the thing he's pulling it off. I will say that I think he looks okay, or he looks good. We'll say he looks that said, that's not that hard to do. That's not that easy to do. Most people who are emulating that in a business setting look like shit.
I'm just gonna be honest. So that's part of why.
What about the dude next, the guy next one?
Yeah, I mean it's not as well composed.
I think it is an outfit as Jason Judacus is, but I mean it looks fine.
And then the one on the end that has like the Argyle sock situation.
So he's got this is why it's a mess. He's got an argyle sock. But I can tell that that's an unstructured either linen suit or a very lightweight cotton suit, which is why he chose to go with the casual dress sneakers. The problem with the dress sneakers there and the suit is then he's wearing like formalish dress socks, so it's totally mismatched and the shoes look awful.
Part of the other.
Reason is that you really should never wear that type of suit to a sort of semi formal occasion. That is a type of suit that you should wear to like a wedding, Like an outdoor wedding, you can wear a fun tie, maybe you don't even wear socks or something like that.
You could mix and match it up.
Now, the other guy who's wearing that that looks to me like a European clubbing outfit. That is one of those that is classic German euro going out.
The pants are like kind.
Of he's got very tight pants, wearing all black in terms of the silhouette. The black shoes also, like wearing dress shoes in a casual setting is a classic euro move. And now, as I said, the female who is in the show. She looks great. I think she looks fantastic. He's wearing a nice dress, her hair appropriate. She's wearing nice and dressed heels. That's how you should wear whenever you're gonna go visit the open.
Okay, so here is my only commentary I will offer on this topic that I don't care all that much about, but I will say that there seems to be some inherent sexism in double standards in the way that the men are allowed to dress and the way that the women are.
Expected to dress.
In both of these photos, the women in every instance are dressed formally and wearing formal heels, which, by the way, this is part of what irritates me. Like men's dress shoes are a million times more comfortable the women's heels, which can be like outright painful, like the ones that I can see in this picture.
You can't even like, no one can walk.
A long distance in those. They're very painful and uncomfortable. So she has to step up her game than you guys do. I would prefer, you know, maybe there's a more lacked standard all the way around, because I don't really care that much, but it should at least.
Be evenly applied. That's my plea for equality.
And here's the problem, though, Let's go put this this is what leads to bummery on Capitol Hill, and put this out there on the screen.
There's now a congressional sneaker Cracus.
They say, the Congressional sneaker Crocus unequivocally supports Speaker McCarthy and Leader Jeffrey's freedom to wear dress sneakers in the Oval office, while Debt's you know whatever. And here's the issue again that I have with that. You know, at the end of the day, it's only the men who are taking advantage of this over in the name of comfort. As you said, dress shoes, Sure they're not great. Guess what, Though you're in Congress, your only job is to represent others.
A big part of that is how you look. I wish that it wasn't that way, but it is.
Guess what.
That's how elected politics and public life. That's what it means. You know, I could technically do this show in a T shirt.
I don't.
I don't just do it because I like it. I do it out of respect for everybody who watches this show. If you are going to take the time out of your day to watch what we have to say. Then I will do my absolute best effort. It's like a lawyer, do you want your lawyer to show up looking like a bum in court.
I've heard from several lawyers about this.
They're like, when we have defendants on trial, we always tell them, We're like, hey, listen, whether you like it or not, you need to dress up.
That's just how the world is.
That's something that you can say that you're have a problem with society or whatever, but you're not going to change it. In terms of our leaders, they are trying to put comfort over everything else. And that is something which really pisses me off, because you know, these people, they're making all this money on stock market. They barely work and they literally come to Washington.
Three days a week.
They don't do anything, and you can't even wear a suit for three days, Like we're asking so much of you. I saw Joe Manchin walking around in a Lululemon quarter zip and I'm like, dd.
You say us this already.
I'm like, get out of here, get out that dude.
Yeah, you're done.
I want to provide you guys will be surprised by this but I think that Mitch McConnell actually should get a little bit of an exception for the outfit that he was wearing, which to me read is like he was doing his best to keep up appearances. But he's an old man and he needs some sneakers that like, because he did the Black Soul, he needs some you know, something that's going to allow him to at least like get.
Around if you're so how old that you need like corrective shoes.
I mean, he's eighty years old.
He's in ill health, so maybe we retired dude, you know, Like I don't know why we're supposed to give you a pass for that, Like, it's not nobody asked you to stick around so.
Anyway, literally no one did.
Yeah, that's true. Call me ages if you want. Sorry.
So we got a new poll in the Democratic primary. Always interesting when media outlets actually decide to pull the contenders who are in the race versus all the like fantasy. They still will do these poles that are like what about Kamala Harris, what about Michelle Obaum And it's like those people are not running. You have people who are actually running, so how are they doing the rice? Let's go and put this up on the screen. This is from Change Poles. They find Joe Biden still with a
commanding lead at sixty five percent. However, both of his challengers in this particular poll are in double digits. You've got Mary and Williamson and RFK Junior tied at eleven percent. This was taken from four twenty eight to five to two. So you know, whatever you think of those two candidates, you'll have the media like frantically declaring they're not serious,
they're not serious, they're not serious. Meanwhile, they're doing better against Biden than every candidate in the Republican side against Trump save for DeSantis. You don't have all the same like, oh Tim Scott's not serious. Oh, Nikki Haley's not serious. Oh Mike Penn's not serious. It's not up to you guys to determine who's serious or not.
It's up to the voters.
And also, judging by previous standards of who would qualify for the debate stage, candidates in double digits would overwhelmingly qualify.
It's not even close call for debate stage.
But you know, there was another poll Emily that was even perhaps more interesting to me, which is this Harvard Harris poll, which we talked about a couple times in the show, which had a lot of really interesting data. They asked the question of voters, do you think Joe Biden is going to win the Democratic primary?
Only fifty percent said yes.
It was fifty to fifty Democratic voters.
This I think this was all voters, oh ball voters.
Okay, that's little.
Kind of astonishing because you know, again, you have this overwhelming narrative that he doesn't even have a challenger, like they barely even acknowledge Bobby or Maryanne. And yet voters are saying, like, I'm looking at this guy, and let alone the general election. I don't even know he's going to make it through the Democratic primary. So I thought that was kind of stunning.
Yeah, there's another finding from the poll that they asked, is Joe Biden mentally fit to serve as President of the United States?
Or do you have doubts about his fitness for office?
Which is an interesting question because technically both of those things could be true at the same time.
You think he's probably fit, but I have doubts about it.
Well, the results are fifty seven percent of people have doubts about his fitness for office. That includes a quarter of Democrats. In the poll, twenty four percent of Democrats said that eighty three percent of Republicans said that they have doubts about his fitness. And now, get this, here's the real problem for Joe Biden. Sixty five percent of independence answered that I have doubts about his fitness.
Thirty five percent said he is mentally fit.
And I think that question actually goes hand in hand with the one that you were talking about. They asked in terms of whether he's going to be the nominee.
People just see that he's.
Frail, and he is obviously frail, and I think people wonder, you know, potentially, what could happen Donald Trump. By the way, no spring Chicken also fairly old. Yeah, And so I think these these questions are front and center of everyone's mind. Like when I think about Tim Scott's campaign, they're saying, like, literally, we have no idea what's going to happen a year from now, we have no idea what's going to transpire.
So we're just going to kind of wait in the wings, see what happens.
And will be the best be in position if something changes. Yeah, I mean, what's interesting to me is they ask the same question on the Republican side, do you think Donald Trump is going to win or lose the Republican nomination?
They actually had he had a little.
Bit more confidence that he was going to win the Republican nomination than Biden had that he was going to win the Democratic nomination.
It's pretty close.
So fifty two percent of voters thought that Trump would win the nomination versus forty eight percent.
But compare that to the media coverage.
You know, if you were listening to the media, there isn't even a Democratic primary going on, Like Joe Biden is being anointed. It's happening period, end of story. Voter is clearly not so sure. On the other side, you know, there's been a lot of discussion about Trump's weakness and you know, how he's really vulnerable and how DeSantis has a real shot.
Now.
I think the media has sort of turned on that recently, just over some stymbols and over.
Some weakness in the poll.
But you definitely think there's more of a race going on on the Republican side, and that's actually not how voters are seeing things. I think you're one hundred percent correct that it does come down to voters just looking at Biden and on a basic human level being like, I don't know if this guy can go through another four years, surely they're going to come up with some kind of alternative.
Let alone another campaign cycle.
Right, But it also really demonstrates why Democrats are so desperate. DNC democrats elected Democratic elites are so desperate to keep the public from even knowing that they have choices, to keep Biden off of a campaign stage or a debate stage with those choices, because they know that people really are looking for alternatives and open to alternatives, and they just their best bet is just to pretend like those alternatives don't actually exist.
They are not confident in Joe Biden. I think for good reasons when you look at sixty five percent of Independence saying that they're not sure about his fitness for office. That's why they don't want Joe Biden on the debate stage.
But honestly, it could backfire on them and be totally counterproductive in the same way that it backfired on them in twenty sixteen, because it gives RFK Junior, gives Marianne more ammunition to say this is an actual conspiracy and the part of the DNC to keep voters from having options.
And that's it.
We saw all of the leaks come out, we know that's exactly what happened, and that pisses voters off. It will Bernie laid the groundwork for people to understand that this is a real narrative, that this is rooted in truth, and that is powerful when you see it happening again and again and again and your alternative is not you know, Hillary Clinton, all the flaws that Hillary Clinton has, She's not senile in the same way that Joe Biden is.
And that's going to be a huge problem for the DNC because when people are you know, you already have double digits for Marianne and RFK Junior.
That's crazy.
Yeah, that's bad for the DNC's ability to actually control.
The narrative when every article is like, they're not serious, they're not to the extent they mentioned them at all. So yeah, I think it's I think it's pretty interesting. I think it's pretty wild. And it's also why even though do I have any confidence the DNC is going to actually bend in scheduled debates or that Biden would subject to himself to no, because they are so fearful of any sort of exchange, any sort of acknowledgment that
there is real competition there. But I still think it's really important to press the case to educate the public and the Democratic primary base that number one, this party that claims to be all oh democracy is so sacred, et cetera, you know, not living up to their word number one and number two, to just you know, illustrate for them that there are alternatives, that they're being shut out, and that you don't have to go in the direction of another four years of hoping that the actuarial tables
are wrong.
So I just pulled up a a NBC article from June twenty third of twenty fifteen that says, it's the headline Bernie's long odds versus Hillary NBC WSJA, Wall Street Journal poll Bernie was playing at fifteen percent. Hillary Clinton was at seventy five percent.
Wow.
And so again that was more of a binary choice because now you have probably RFK Junior and Marian Williamson splitting votes. But holy smokes, like that's fifteen percent for Bernie standers. When you combine Marion RFK Junior, you're already way higher than that.
Yeah, so this is bad news.
And it's another I think eleven percent that said don't know.
All right. I'm Maximilian Alvarez. I'm the editor in chief of the Real News Network in the host of the podcast Working People, and this is the art of class war on breaking points. Massive worker strikes continue to rock Europe, but you would hardly know it if you live here in North America and you get your news exclusively from
corporate media. Facing a crushing cost of living crisis exacerbated by corporate price gouging, monetary inflation, and compounding costs from the ongoing war in Ukraine, working people across industries have been resorting to industrial action i e. Strikes to fight against further job losses, pay cuts, and a general decline in living and working standards for working class people across the board, from air traffic controllers and airport workers in Germany,
Spain and Italy to healthcare workers, educators, amazon workers and civil servants in the United Kingdom. From teachers and students protesting in Hungary, to general strikes and Mayday demonstrations in France, Greece and Turkey, paralyzing major cities like Paris, Athens and Istanbul. The winter of worker discontent shows no signs of stopping
in the spring or summer. The top down assault on working people is taking many forms from French President Emmanuel Macron's deeply unpopular plan to raise retirement ages and further weaken the country's beloved pension system, changes that he has opted to force into reality by controversially and undemocratically invoking constitutional special powers to override Parliament, to the French police's brutal crackdown on strikers, to the Tory government in the
United Kingdom drawing out and throwing a wrench into negotiations in the National Rail dispute involving the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers or the RMT, and on top of that, responding to the massive wave of strikes in the UK by ramming through a a draconian anti labor law that will force striking workers to cross their own
picket lines. We are recording this installment of the art of class war on Monday May twenty second, and as we speak, R and T members around the UK are holding rallies to protest the tori's anti strike law and to defend workers sacred and necessary right to strike again. If you've been watching corporate media here in North America, chances are you'll only be vaguely aware of this historic
wave of strikes. And if you want to know more about them, and if you want to hear directly from workers themselves, then you should go check out the many video podcasts and text reports we publish at the Real News Network in the last year, and you should definitely revisit my previous segments on Breaking Points from March and January, in which I spoke with British and French rail workers
about the strikes their respective countries. Today, we're going to give y'all a critical update on those strikes because frankly, a lot has happened since our last segment and there are some big strike dates coming up in early June. In France, trade unions have announced a nationwide day of protest set to take place on June sixth, ahead of a meeting by lawmakers on June eighth to discuss a draft bill proposed by the opposition Leo Party to cancel
the retirement age reform in the UK. As Gwintopem recently reported for The Guardian, quote the RMT has announced another rail strike on Friday, the second of June, the day before the Men's FA Cup final, warning that the government quote cannot wish the dispute away end quote. About twenty thousand RMT members working for the fourteen major rail companies in England will strike for twenty four hours in the
law running dispute over pay and conditions. The stoppage falls between two days of strikes already called by the Drivers Union as left on the thirty first of May and the third of June, compounding the disruption for passengers before the final at Wembley between Manchester City and Manchester United on the Saturday. The union said that while there had been contact with the train operator's body, the Rail Delivery Group or the RDG since the last strike was called,
there had been no new proposals. The package rejected in April had not significantly improved since the offer was rejected in February, a headline increase of nine percent over two years, but with conditions attached and only a short term guarantee against job cuts.
End quote.
To get an on the ground update on the ongoing class struggle playing out across France. In the UK, I'm honored to be joined today one once again by Mateu Boulredat, calling in from France. Mattheu is a train operator and General secretary of the Versailles branch of the CGT Union or the General Confederation of Labor. We're also joined by Clayton Clive calling in from England. Clayton is a train conductor and he is also currently serving as the Branch
secretary for the R and T Manchester South Branch. Mattheu Clayton, thank you both so much for joining us today on Breaking Points. I know you are both incredibly busy and you have been fighting your asses off for months on end, so I promise not to keep you too long. You know, we last checked in with Mattheu and Gaz Jackson from the R and T for another Breaking Points interview that we published a little over a month ago, so I want to catch people up on what's been happening since then.
So why don't we start by telling people from your vantage points as members of and fighters for the working class what has been happening in your countries over the past month, and then in the next round we'll talk about the upcoming strikes in June. So Matt two, you're up first.
Brother, Hi Max, And of course I'm busy, but I'm never too busy for you, you know that. So thank you very much again to give me the flaw and hello, good evening to all brothers and sisters across the ocean in Baltimore and all the USA. So about about this topic since the last time we meet, I think it was in the in the end of the end of March, and so we was just in the in the hand
of our unlimited strike. As you remember, we do one month on unlimited strike in in different terms, a strategic sector of the economy, okay, the refinery, the power, the power workers, the railway workers, underground, the collect garbage. So at this point we we success to make afraid the majority of the member of Parliament, so they don't vote the law. But you know they use a bypass, a trick of the constitution to bypass the parliament and and
pass the law without a vote. So after that there is uh the young people that come uh very loudly in the movement every night they do the wild demonstration they call they call that, while I call that free demonstration on the street, not just in Paris, even in a small sea is and they're fight against the police. Now the situation is more quiet, but the president said, uh, we have to move on, you know, we have to
move on and talk about other things. And we we say, the working class movement said we will not moving on. We will continue to fight, to resist and to claim our legitimate claims, legitimate entication and legitimate agenda. And so we do a huge may Day in Paris. It was I think the biggest may Day I never saw, with a lot of camera from more than sixty countries comes in Paris. So it was very important to show the international support to our people and the working class in France.
Support of course against the law, against the anti pension law, but the suppose against the anti democratic.
Policy of the President Macron.
For us, now it's become very clear that our fight is not not just a self defense social self defense. It's become a democratic self defense against authoritarism of the of the government. And of course we plan a new day of strike the sixth of June to mention it because as you mentioned, there will be a small group of the opposition actually, and that's a good job, is a righteous group at in the balance. But they want
to finish this movement. They want to stop this and and stop the strikes of the demonstration because it's very very bad for the profits, is very very bad for the bosses. So they try to to make a new vote with a new law too to counsel the first law we take place without vote, So you can see
it's totally crazy the situation here in the parliament. So because the organist that the eight we decide to organize a new day of general strike and demonstration in all over the country the sixth of June, and in my company it will be a huge, huge day of strike, and we invite delegation for six country just in my branch, Portugal, Greece and Italy to demonstrate with us.
So it will be a huge day.
And of course, and I will conclude by that, I'm sorry if if I.
Was too long.
Of course, during the summer, even we don't win at the eighth of June during the honor and we're not taking place of general strike there because it's the holiday cine. We know French people are very lazy. We take one month of holiday. Sorry about that, but I think you said most of people take another job during the holidays.
But it's a different situation.
Holiday holiday, what's that?
But uh, it will be still a mobilization, but with with different forms. And we announced that for example, we will fight to councel a lot of sports events, uh and a lot of cultural events. And now from now we we start to threat this government. If you continue to do that, there will be no Olympic Games in Paris.
It will we will.
Collapse all the cities for the Olympics Games. Event is not lackameilion, it's a self defense policy.
Hell yeah, well I want to I want to circle back and talk about the demonstration's planned for the six and what people can do to support y'all. But I guess before we get there, Clayton, why don't we bring you in here? And yeah, like we said last time on Breaking Points, I got to chat with Matt Twu and Gaz Jackson. We know, the great Gaz Jackson over at the r m T in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire and
that was at the end of March. So why don't you give viewers and listeners an update on what's been going on specifically with the r m T in the National Rail dispute in the UK, but also I guess you know, if you want to give folks any other updates on the other strikes that we've been seeing, like the NHS strike and you know, the first Amazon workers strike in the UK, what's been going on over there over the past month.
Hello, thanks for having me again, and solidarity to our friends and comrades in France and around the world. What Matthew was just saying there about summer is exactly what I want a piece of. Maybe we could do with Matthew and our National Executive Committee at the R and T, because what we need is escalation. In my opinion, where we were when you last spoke with Gaz, I believe
that the offer was being considered. That offer was the five percent as you've mentioned, with another five percent tied to terms and conditions modernization as they call it. That went to a consultation amongst all the branches in our union, and the overwhelming majority of branches said to reject that offer outright without a referendum. I think our branch actually sent a resolution to that effect before we were even told to consult our members. That's how strongly people in
Manchester felt that that offer was unacceptable. Obviously it's unacceptable for workers to have to pay for their own pay rise that meets the rise in inflation. Nobody should have to, you know, see their terms and conditions cut purely to be able to afford to live. And if we'd accepted something like that, it sets a dangerous precedent. You know, the government will accept workers elsewhere to do it as well,
expect workers elsewhere to do that as well. And you're you know, selling your soul for a little bit, but in the long term, your job is worse worse off, and those attacks would keep coming. So luckily we've we've rejected that offer outright without a referendum, and now we've a day of action coming up on the on the let me check we have a day of action coming up. I think it's the second of June. I know it's it's slot slotted in with as left coming up strike action.
We've only called one day because at the time we were waiting for the renewal of our mandate because in the UK we have to balot every six months. So now what I'm expecting is an escalation of action over the summer. Because we've taken twenty days. This will be our twentieth day of strike action in eleven months. So to me, we've not really hit hard. You know, we've
not used the economic power that we have. My personal view is last summer we should have hit hard because the longer it drags on, the more weary members will get. And as you see, if you put poor offers out to the membership at time and again, eventually they'll accept that and we'll have all sold ourselves short. So what I want from our union and from our national executive is an escalation of action because it's going to reach
a point where we've got no choice. Sooner or later, we're either going to be worn down or we're going to have to escalate. You know, you're going to have to throw all your cards in at some point and show what we've got. So far, we've not done that. And regardless of the action being small and you know, subtle action, it's not been it's not been long periods
of sustained action. Regardless of that, regardless of however we take strike action, we've got the the anti strike bill, a minimum service bill now hot on our heels as well. You mentioned what else is going on in June. Obviously, as left there their offer. They only represent trade and drivers.
Our empty represents all grades in transport industries. Has left had an offer a worse offer than ours, and there's two was tied to cut to safety, if you can believe it, especially when you know what's going on over in the US there on your railroads there with safety issues. The government wants has left to accept for a pay rise, a reduction in driver training and for drivers to basically be trained in a way that they get to choose
how competent they are. You know, there isn't a set standard currently, there's a set standard of say you've got to do one hundred hours over such a route, but they want to change it. So it's up to individual drivers. So if the managers are pressuring you we need you driving, you could say I'm fine after five hours, and you
know you're not. You're not to the same level. And likewise we've seen escalations and strikes in this strike way from Amazon and the junior doctors have announced more dates after rejecting a pay rise, and ultimately I think the tide is sort of turning in the viewpoint that workers can get more and deserve more, and there is there is no excuse. You know, we've we've hammered it home
time and again. The rm T about passenger numbers. The government consistently says, oh, passengers aren't coming back, so we need reform, and we hear this over and over again. And we've just recently got the Department for Transports own numbers for April, and I believe it's ninety eight point
six percent passenger numbers on the railway for April. And that's whilst strikes have been going on, and that's whilst companies are still running reduced timetables, and some companies can't even manage to run that reduced timetable to an acceptable level. They're still canceling so much so that we're seeing our
franchise based privatized system collapse. Again. We've seen another train operating company have to be taken over by the government owned operator of the Last Resort, which I think is a fantastic name. So it's clear for everyone to see that the rail industry is going to easily exceed passenger
numbers that were set before the pandemic. I believed the year of running up to the pandemic we had the second highest recorded passenger levels ever and we're be in on some days and near enough matches throughout April that passenger level again on a poor service. So it's a time for investment. It's a time to give the workers
their fair share. And hopefully, obviously our one day of action isn't going to change much, So hopefully we get a nice string of dates announced that will bring the government to the table and we'll give on negotiate as a shoe to beat the government with, as it were.
All right, So, as we've already said, we've got some big disruptions planned for early June in both France and the UK. Now, like I said, we are recording this segment on the week of May twenty second, so it's always possible that circumstances can change by the time this segment gets published. But let's assume that things will continue as planned for now. So Matthew Clayton tell us a little more about what's going to be happening in early June.
Who's going to be involved, how big do you expect these strikes to be, what do you hope the outcome of these strikes will be, and what can people around the world do to stand in solidarity with their fellow workers in France in the uk Ah.
That's a very good question, you know. I'm I'm a train driver. You mentioned it.
I'm the general secretary of course of my union. But I must i'm too. I'm a trainer too, because it's very important, the training of union.
It is young union.
It's is very important, you know. And usually I said a small joke during the our training camp. I never talk about the beliefs of people. You know, gods are not you know, hell or heaven. But I'm fortunate and I could definitely say that I don't believe.
In Santa Claus.
So uh, and I think we are not fight kids old.
We we we.
Don't believe in some clause we have to believe in us. We have to believe to believe in ourselves. We have to believe in the power of the working class. There is a power in the union. So we have to fight. We have to fight, is our only solution. You know, we have not the billion of Europe.
And and dollars.
We are not billionaires, but we are billions of workers. And that's I think it's the way out, the key to to to to the way out. So the sixth of June there is now now uh call of national strike of rivway worker, of energy, worker of raffinery and bought all the parts in France buses underground and schools, teachers and people who public servants, in city halls, at court, et cetera, et cetera, in prisons two, et cetera, et cetera.
So there is a huge call.
But there is a call in private sector too, for example, in the commerce services you mentioned the command from Amazon, it is the same in you eat or deliverools, you know, this small new job, you know, the start up nation. Like President Macron like to say, so, it's very important to coagulate all this anger, all and but all this hope to we we are the party of the anger and the party of the hope. We have to turn the anger to a fight to win our legitimate claims.
So the interesting point is today now, because we not just wait for the sixth of June and the day after and the day after, we continue to organize now. For example, now President Macron is ministers or the deputy of his parliament minority. You know, the world in France is a parliament majority, that of course is a parliament minority.
Because they don't don't take their chance by vote.
So every day, every day they try to go to a place a factory, visit to school, et cetera, et cetera, in all the country to try to move on, you know, and talk about other things education, the great UH industry,
et cetera, et cetera. There is every day UH demonstration, small demonstration, maybe hundreds people, maybe thousands people, but that there is always a demonstration with people UH and claim and scream and et cetera, et cetera, make music and UH say no to the this abuse, no to this democratic anti democratic injury to all and UH for example, and that that's a true story.
You can you can check it on online.
Because they are afraid about our cameras, bothers and sisters from the energy from the energy.
Trade Union of cuttings. UH.
The lights in different rooms, meeting rooms. They are always the staff of the president. They have always in any move, always a big battery, you know, a big helping battery, emergency battery to.
Have a power. Can you imagine that the president of the sixth.
Powerful economy in the world could not make a move in his own country without an emergency battery. That's so fucking ridiculous, you know. And that's the situation now. So it's a big Gary, Yeah, you know, it's.
Of course for now.
We don't win the first move of the war, but it's a huge class war. There is several battles, okay, and we have to prove to him he could not restore the civil peace in the this country if he don't take off his big We have to prove that during months and months and months at the plan.
Now.
It baffles me the way the powerful people like my cron talk about working class struggle right like he's saying, oh, we got to move on and talk about other stuff, when it's like, well, are you know, we haven't solved any of the issues that we were protesting about before, so why are we going to move on? And if we move on, then we're just going to keep sliding further and further down the ladder. We're going to be working longer, we're going to be retiring later. The cost
of living crisis is still a crisis. And so just because he's ready to move on, uh, doesn't mean working people are. And Clayton, I wanted to bring you in here and ask if you could fill us in as well about the strikes that are coming up in early June, because I don't know, it felt like there was potentially a resolution on the horizon in the National rail dispute. That's at least what we've been hearing from, you know,
British media. And surely Prime Minister Rishi Sunak also wants to you know, talk about something else right and move past all these strikes. But you know, he's not doing anything to address the issues that y'all have been striking over.
And not only that he is rammed through He and the Tories have rammed through this anti strike law that would force striking workers in the UK to guarantee a minimum level of service during strikes, i e. If someone if the ARMT goes on strike, the government apparently gets to say how many workers have to cross that picket line to maintain a certain level of service so that service isn't disrupted during the strike, even though disrupting service is the whole point of a strike. So anyway, I'm
getting I'm getting pissed off myself. Why don't you tell viewers and listeners I guess things stand now, and yeah, what is what they should be looking out for? With these new round of strikes in early June.
Yes, So the second of June we have our day of strike action, which is every grade at every train operating company being out on strike, and that sandwich between two days of drivers taking strike action. For US, it's about twenty thousand members that will be on strike on
the second of June. And like I've said earlier, I'm hoping we see an escalation of action because, as I've said, the anti strike bill, the minimum serviceability you've mentioned, is now on its sort of final final leg of the whatever it does when it bats around between unelected House of Lords and then our marginally elected MPs, it gets back back and forwards a bit, and then they do some amendments and you sort of lose interest. At the first hearing, I paid attention, and now I'm like, I
guess it's coming. You know, it's inevitable. The TUC talk about challenging it in the courts, but we have to remember that the courts work in the interest of the state, and this is the state's law. So I can't see the court coming and being my night in shining armor and saving me from this bill. And likewise, we can't wait for Keir Starmer's Labor Party, because although he said he will repeal this bill, I just saw the other day that he said he thinks that he should let
the new Policing Bill bed in, which is terrifying. That's a bill that basically outlaws protest. If you're a bit too noisy, the police can come and arrest you. So we're on a dangerous path. We're on a scary road with this bill as well, which is you know, I've always found my union to be the most democratic part of my life. You know, they say we live in a democracy. I don't get to elect my manager. I get to elect an MP for my area. But my
MP is always going to be a Labor MP. They've got a majority of twenty odd thousands, So if I want to vote for the Green Party, it doesn't mean anything. I'm not you know, we're not going to see a massive swing for the Green Party. The most democratic part of my life is my union. Luckily, I've one of the most democratic trade unions in the country. And the idea that this strike bill is anything other than to protect the state and to protect capital and private profit,
you know, that's all is. They say it's going to be for the benefit of everyday people. Someone actually said to me on a most recent strike that he was being persecuted by our strike, and I said, I don't think that's the case. I think you'll find our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was persecuted. You know, you're not being persecuted by not being able to get the train today.
And you can see the language they use in sometimes it works, but I think for the vast majority of people in the UK, they've always voted in support in polls and stuff of the strike action people are taking, and we've generally had that support on the street and on the ground, and I don't think that will change this.
The leaders of unions, our General Secretary mcclinch and Matt Rack from the Fiber Grades union, have said that we're not going to comply with these laws and that we're going to have to resist them, which is brilliant, but the cynic in me does say very loudly in my head, we've been complying with anti trade union laws for thirty years. We've been complying with Factor's laws all this time, and it's been our union policy to not comply with those
lots but we comply. So the talk is good, but we need to see the action, you know, we need to see workers being lifted up and given that empowerment to not comply, because there will be great amount of pressure and workers to comply, and there will be a great amount of pressure on union leaders to not be explicit when they're asking for non compliance, because of course, if a union leader says, don't comply with those laws,
you're all out on strike. That union's assets could be frozen and that could be that the end of that union. But for me, I don't really care, because unions will come and go. But workers and organized workers have always existed.
You know.
They were organizing when they were building the pyramids. They were organizing when Cromwell was doing his thing. They were organizing in factories in the eighteen hundreds. They were organizing when the US National Guard was shooting at them. We'll keep on organizing and we'll find new ways to do it.
And I think, like mc clinchers said, the anti trade union laws, these these anti struck the Minimum Service Bill, as it's called nicely nice name for it, is only going to open a bigger can of worms for them because when people don't comply, there's nothing they can do. If if the government says to me, I'm one of x amount of percent that has to go into work, if we all don't go into work, they can't sack us at all. And if the nurses don't go into work,
they can't sack them all. So you know, we've just got to stand up for ourselves. That's the ultimate thing. And I think our stereotype is I think that we're quite a compliant people, British people generally, or English people at least. So let's hope that we cannot be compliant for a change. And I think part of that, although I'm sort of a person that thinks we don't need leaders, there is a vast swave of union membership that does need leaders, and it does need people to look up
to them. It needs you know, big Bill Haywoods, and it needs Bob Crow's and it needs people like that, and it needs mclinch and it needs our current leaders now to lead that charge because they are doing it at the moment. They are saying, you know, talking the talk, but we need them to keep that up. Likewise, we need our action to escalate, because otherwise this dispute is going to go and run on beyond a year and
we've got nothing to show for it. And we started very positively, you know, like Gaz said in the previous one that this was like dropping a stone in a pond and all the ripples coming out. For those ripples will fade away if there aren't victories. You know, if there aren't victories, we'll have nothing to show for the strike wave and that will be the end of it for maybe another generation. You won't see any in any
mobilization like this again. So what we need and what I hope for is escalation, and we need to be ready for those anti strike laws. We need to be ready for that minimum service bill, and we all need to stand around, stand up and not go into work when that bill comes because, as Ted Grant said, I believe it was Ted Grant, some people have been appropriating
this quote for a while. But not a single wheel turns, not a lot pupe comes on you, not a letter is delivered without the kind permission of the working class. And we need to remember that, and we need to remember that we have the power, not the government.
Okay, So again, I know it's late. I know you guys are tired. I promise this is the last question. And it's a little bit of a cheeky question, as my British friends would say, but frankly, I just could not help myself. So on May twentieth, as breaking points viewers can see on their screen, the Telegraph posted this picture on social media of UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak and French President Emanuel Macron just generally looking creepy and weird together on the second day of the G seven
Leader summit in Hiroshima, Japan. Now, the Telegraph asked followers to caption the photo and I am absolutely dying to know how you guys would capture in this photo. Uh, you know, what do you think Sunak and Macron are talking about here? And what would you say to Macron and Sunak right now if you had the chance to talk to them directly.
That's a tricky one.
So of course I don't know what they're talking about, but I can imagine. I can imagine because these people when when they meet each other in Davos, for example, in Switzerland, are in India for the G seven meeting in hiroshimas sorry for the G seven meeting, there these people.
There are very few people, and the.
Preton to command their lives, the preton to be the new gods of this earth, the preton to put a new religion, maybe the religion of the money, the religion of the war.
You you you asked me.
What I imagine, what I imagine they're talking about. I would I wish imagine They're talking about peace, They're talking about social progress.
They're talking about.
How to to satisfy the needs of the people of not just of the people of my country, of Indian country, of US country, but of the all the world.
You know.
So, but I know they don't do that. I know they don't do that. I know they talk about how to satisfy the greed instinct of the few people of the world, of the leadership of the world, of the big bosses of the world, and big capitalists, and and two satisfies not the needs but these greedy feelings. Then they need to to troy, to destroy our combativity, to destroy our movements, because we claim just the satisfaction of our needs. That that's the difference between between us and them.
They want to satisfy greedy feelings and we want to satisfy our needs. Just for example, in this in this seven seven, they're talking about a new big cheap with the plane war plane. You know, it's four thousand, it's four hundred thousand euros only for France for one boat in Trance, one boat four hundred thousand euros.
Uh, sorry on.
God on thousand billions billions sorry, million, million millions, and that they talk about the talk about. Uh, they said they need to break our pension system because we miss twelve only twelve billion Europe. So we can do the balance. We can do the mats okay with with one boat, you can pay like ten years of our pension system. That's so ridiculous, So what what they do? So sorry, I lost my humor about that.
That it's we live in a very.
Sad times and very tough times. As I need we need to be shoulder shoulder and shoulder together in France, in all Europe and cross the ocean together because I think they want to kill to kill us all, you know, to kill us all and destroy the planet just for satisfying that they are greedy feelings. So we have to fight. It's our only solution, of course, to the fund our self. But I have a girl, a little girl. I love her sister twenty.
She she she worked very good at school, She do their home work, she does the dishes when when she has to do, she do all her duty.
She's a very good girl.
And now I'm not sure about this future, about our future, I'm not sure about that, even our walk. I'm a good dad, I have a good value. I'm not sure about that. That's fucking unfair.
So I don't have anything smart and deep and meaningful to add, like Matthew died, Maybe I don't think so. What originally first came to mind was a bit of a cheap job, which was that macarn is probably enjoying being the tallest person in a room for a change, and I checked as well. Macaron is one seven three centimeters and Sunak is one seventy. But what also came to mind was the Discoelysium quote, which was evil child murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit eating grin.
So yeah, that's my caption. I don't know if that'd get published in the paper. And the only other thing I would add is that I probably wouldn't talk to them because I think that they're the sort of people whose mind you would never change, you know, you could, you could take them anywhere to see suffering and they wouldn't you know, they wouldn't change their minds about things.
They wouldn't change their mind about about war, about funding war, They wouldn't change their mind about increasing the funding for school or education. All that really matters to them is profit and like you said, very expensive watches. If anyone can support us, or talking of money, maybe Macron can I would maybe recommend to them the Strike Fund rt SCOTT, a national dispute fund, and all that money helps helps
us help our members. Some of our members in this dispute are incredibly low paid because we represent all grades. There are these rumors that we've got very exaggerated salaries, but they're not true, I can assure you. So if anyone can support our National strike Fund, that would be much appreciated. But yeah, that's about me, thank you.
So that is Matthew Bullredatt, a train operator and general secretary of the Versailles branch of the CGT union, calling in from France, and Clayton Clive calling in from England. Clayton is a train conductor and he is also currently serving as the branch Secretary for the RMT Manchester South Branch, Matthieu Clayton. Thank you both so much for joining us
today on Breaking Points. As always, we are sending all of our love and solidarity from across the Pond to you and to all of our brothers, our sisters and our siblings fighting the good fight. Thank you for watching this segment with Breaking Points, and be sure to subscribe to my news outlet, The Real News, with links in the show description. See you soon for the next edition of the Art of Class War. Take care of yourselves, take care of each other. Solidarity forever,