4/27/23: Tucker Carlson Breaks Silence, Republican Debt Bill Barely Passes, China's Xi Pushes Zelensky Negotiations, Kamala's 2024 Kickoff, Disney Sues DeSantis, Nate Silver Out, Bernie Betrays Movement, Biden's High Chance of Death - podcast episode cover

4/27/23: Tucker Carlson Breaks Silence, Republican Debt Bill Barely Passes, China's Xi Pushes Zelensky Negotiations, Kamala's 2024 Kickoff, Disney Sues DeSantis, Nate Silver Out, Bernie Betrays Movement, Biden's High Chance of Death

Apr 27, 20232 hr 35 min
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Episode description

Krystal and Saagar discuss Tucker Carlson breaking his silence on his firing in a new video, the Republican Debt Bill barely passes as crisis looms, China's Xi pushes Zelensky to negotiate, Ukraine casualties reported as five times higher, Kamala kicks off 2024 with nonsense, a Journalist is caught feeding Biden a question, a shocking poll show Marianne and RFK Jr. rising in the polls, Disney sues DeSantis, Nate Silver leaves FiveThirtyEight as 2010's Media officially dies, Krystal looks into how Bernie betrayed his movement with Biden endorsement, and Saagar looks into Biden's insanely high chance of death if re-elected.


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Transcript

Speaker 1

Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of ways we can up our game for this critical election.

Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

Coverage that is possible.

Speaker 2

If you like what we're all about, it just means the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that, let's get to the show.

Speaker 3

Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

Speaker 1

What do we have, Crystal, Indeed, we do many, many things that are breaking this morning. We've got domestic news, We've got international news. Taker Carlson releasing some comments, speaking out for the first time after being canned over at Fox News. We'll play those for you and react. We also have a bit of deat sealing drama. Kevin McCarthy able to survive the first test, was able to barely cobble together enough votes to pass through his debt ceiling

proposal through the House. Still very unclear what happens next. We have Zelenski and she actually speaking on the phone, will tell you what we know about that. We've got some new comments from Kamala Harris that you're going to enjoy, and a new poll over in the Democratic primary race. Someone actually decided to pull the actual candidates who are in the race, which like no one has done yet. You might be surprised by the results, and I think

the Biden Whitehouse might be surprised by the results. We've got an escalation in the battle between Ronda Santis and Disney Nate Silver is out at five point thirty eight. Quite an extraordinary media move in a week of a lot of wild media moves. I're excited to talk to

Anthony Fantanner. Now he's a YouTuber who he does a lot of music reviews huge channel, and he's going to talk to us about these new Ai Drake and the weekend songs that have been coming out, which actually, in my opinion, are not that bad.

Speaker 3

Low key not bad.

Speaker 2

Look a big music guy. So I'm excited to talk to Anthony about it.

Speaker 1

And yeah, mean well yeah, And I want to know his analysis of whether he thought the songs were good, because look, I'm not I like some Drake songs, but I'm not.

Speaker 4

A huge Drake fam. I actually thought this was like better than many Drakes.

Speaker 3

That's my thing is I'm not sophisticated enough.

Speaker 2

I've barely listened to any at Also, I want to talk to somebody like him and be like, okay, like how much of a thing actually, because to me, you know, I'm a nobody got to.

Speaker 4

Be freaking out though.

Speaker 2

Yeah, it's going to be a great conversation. I also want to take a moment here. I want to say thank you so much to everybody who's been heeding our call for support. At this time, we shelled out the biggest expense in the history of Breaking Points for our new set. You guys are helping us. We have officially paid off the lights. We still have gote a bit way to go in terms.

Speaker 3

Of all the help.

Speaker 2

So as I've reiterated, the yearly and the lifetime members, they're the most helpful to us from a cashlow perspective. We also do have a donation button on our website, but we'd love for you to just become premium members. Not only just support the show, you get all the benefits and all that. So Breakingpoints dot com, if you're able, it means the.

Speaker 4

World to us.

Speaker 1

Yeah, and thank you, thank you, Thank you to those of you who've been signing up. It really like you guys are coming through as you always have, and we are just extremely grateful.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Absolutely, Okay, So let's get to Tucker Carlson pretty crazy dropped a new video at eighth one Eastern Standard time yesterday. Probably not a coincidence because it's the exact moment when his old show was going Liveiday okay air.

Speaker 3

Yeah, oh yeah. That's certainly a little bit of a subtweet since has now garnered over twenty five million views. Here's what he had to say.

Speaker 5

Notice, when you take a little time off is how unbelievably stupid most of the debates you see on television are. They're completely irrelevant, they mean nothing. In five years, we won't even remember that we had them, trust me as someone who's participated. And yet, at the same time, and this is the amazing thing, the undeniably big topics, the ones that will define our future, get virtually no discussion at all. War, civil liberties, emerging science, demographic change, corporate power,

natural resources. When was the last time you heard a legitimate debate about any of those issues.

Speaker 3

It's been a long time.

Speaker 5

Debates like that are not permitted in American media, Both political parties and their donors have reached consensus on what benefits them, and they actively collude to shut down any conversation about it. Suddenly, the United States looks very much like a one party state. That's a depressing realization, but it's not permanent. Our current orthodoxies won't last. They're brain dead, nobody actually believes them. Hardly anyone's life is improved by them.

This moment is too inherently ridiculous to continue, and so it won't. The people in charge know this. That's why the hysterical and aggressive. They're afraid. They've given up persuasion. They're resorting to force, but it won't work. When honest people say what's true, calmly and without embarrassment, they become powerful. At the same time, the liars who've been trying to silence them shrink and they become weaker. That's the iron ware of the universe.

Speaker 3

True things prevail.

Speaker 5

Where can you still find Americans saying true things? There aren't many places left, but there are some, and that's enough. As long as you can hear the words, there is hope.

Speaker 3

See you soon. A couple of big takeaways there.

Speaker 2

I think number one at the end I actually thought was the most significant. There are still some places where you can tell truth that could be a hint at his future. We know he's currently in the middle of a contract in broglio with Fox News as to whether he will we will even be allowed to see the man sometime in the next couple of years. As I understand, he was under contract is negotiating his way out of

it too. From the content alone before before you jump in, Crystal, yeah, I thought, at the very least, which was nice to hear, most of the debates on television don't matter and have

not mattered to our future. I would hope that that is a signal to the future that so much of what was included on the Fox News program, including Let's be honest, like for a huge portion of the Tucker Carlson Show, outside of his own monologue and his own pet interest, it was just standard fair bs which Brian Kilmeade is including now, which you probably didn't even select. It was like some producers or whatever idea that you're just going along with.

Speaker 3

I am hoping that in the.

Speaker 2

Future we can move past that and actually get to something which is a genuine critique of some of the issues which he raised there in that I'm curious what you thought of the video.

Speaker 1

I mean, I find the video kind of irritating for in two ways. First of all, it was mostly like a lot of you know, grandiose, not really saying much of anything. Another thing, like, dude, you're not a martyr. You called your boss the sea word. You're involved in like multiple potential multi billion dollar lawsuits. Imagine if you out there called your boss the sea word. Do you think you would have a job at the end of the day.

Speaker 6

No way.

Speaker 4

It's amazing that he survived this long.

Speaker 1

But when you have, and there's some new reporting this morning about like the extent of how like out there the text messages that were revealed in the dominion lawsuit, not even the ones that were revealed publicly, but ones that were redacted that the company came to know about, like they were very concerned about what was in there. Apparently in there is where you know he called probably Suzanne Scott the C word. Again, this is his boss.

He's implicated in this this sex discrimination lawsuit from habby Abby Grosberg that counterpoints covered yesterday. She claims she's got like ninety different audio tapes and recordings and whatever. Who knows what's in that, but Fox probably knows what's in that. He may be implicated in the Smartmatic lawsuit as well. All the texts that came out publicly during the dominion

thing were extremely embarrassing as well. So, yeah, you look at all these you know, all these pieces, and you have the fact that advertisers don't want to advertise in his program. So even though yes, he's the highest rated thing from a business decision and from just a pain in the ass decision and from a you know, public embarrassment decision, you know, the match just didn't add up for them anymore, even though he was like buddy buddy with Lachlan, who was part of making this decision.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it was a bit odd how that all went down.

Speaker 2

I'm still not exactly sure why they would fire him over calling your boss a seaward and then it never even came out like you know, it's like something in your private text message.

Speaker 3

But and apparently he wanted those texts too.

Speaker 1

I think he got he got arrogant, and they felt like they needed to reclaim.

Speaker 4

You know, this isn't the first time that they've fired they top rated up. Yeah, they did the Glutton back bill, O'Reilly. You know Megan Kelly.

Speaker 1

It was a little bit different because she had kind of gotten crosswise with the Trump base and so her ratings had fallen off when they let her go. But she was still a gigantic talent and you know, extraordinarily talented person. So Fox is reasserting their dominance in this situation. Now, is Tucker going to be fine? Is he going to find of course, he's going to find an audience. Will he have the level of mainstream cultural impact and influence that he had at Fox?

Speaker 4

Doubtful.

Speaker 3

I don't know.

Speaker 2

I actually don't know about that, because we have seen already is a massive crash Fox actually in the eight PM hour. I actually was just looking at it this morning, had their worst day since pre nine to eleven times in terms of the numbers at them.

Speaker 3

So I mean it's a massive crash, right, yeah, on the hour.

Speaker 2

It actually does show me too, which is they were able to make up their ground over O'Riley relatively quickly.

Speaker 4

It took a couple of years.

Speaker 3

It took a couple of.

Speaker 2

Years for Tucker, but they had Hannity to come in there and have hold strong, but Hannity has degraded so much in terms of his content. I'll just be kind just leave it to the content and say that that is where he hasn't been able to make up the ground that it is making it very difficult for them on the Abbey Grosberg thing.

Speaker 3

I have to be honest.

Speaker 2

I mean, I just was looking at this new report that her lawyers confirmed she never actually even met Tucker while working for Fox News. Says that she never met him in person because he was taping the show from his personal studios in Maine and in Florida. The more that I'm looking at the lawsuit, she's accusing him, I

guess of promoting this hostile work environment. And that's part of the why though the EP was the target, because he's probably the main point of contact right like he has There're probably one hundred people who work on the show at least in some way, between booking producers, the overall it's like booking producers, I think the line producer, they had, the studio people, the camera people as well.

Speaker 3

I'm putting all these these teams.

Speaker 4

Are smaller than you think.

Speaker 1

I mean, on a primetime show, like the core team of producers that you know, Abby what's her.

Speaker 4

Name, Grosberg.

Speaker 1

Grosberg would have been part of You're maybe like fifteen people. It's not a huge group, and so listen, I don't know, I mean, a way to see what comes out. But clearly there was enough here that Fox was getting concerned about that they felt like they needed to take some sort of action.

Speaker 4

And it's also hard to parse, like, you know, we've.

Speaker 1

Been heard of like one hundred different factors that were involved in this firing. Another issue, another thing was like they're made them a personal angle. Apparently Rupert Murdoch's ex fiance, you know, just after.

Speaker 4

They break up, she thought that Tucker was like the Messiah or something, and he was kind.

Speaker 1

Of freaked out by the way that she was talking about him, the way they were talking to each other. He breaks off the engagement. And then shortly thereafter Tucker's can so he's taking his ex fiance's favorite show off the air. So there's like a personal angle to this as well.

Speaker 4

I don't know how.

Speaker 1

All of these swirling factors come together to lead to this decision, but at least a lot of the reporting and the reporting in the Wall Street Journal, which I think we should take probably the most seriously indicates that the final straw was they just learned about some of these text messages just before the dominion suit for what the redacted ones, the ones that we haven't even seen yet, And that was kind of the piece where they are like, all right, we're done here.

Speaker 2

Yeah, they were done because they found out that he couldn't stand them. I think the Glenn Beck analogy is an important one. Yeah, people don't know. Beck was fired actually at the height of his powers whenever he was such a rating powerhouse there. They thought he was getting too big for his bridges because he was starting a blaze dot com or he's trying to start alternative media. He's writing a bunch of books like Outside of Contract in Row. Drails finally was like, look, I don't care

if the ratings are big. You know, we have enough of a juggernaut here. We can recreate them on the aggregate and it'll work out from what we can see. The Murdochs apparently thought the same, or you know, as you said, who the hell knows we need a capricious ninety two year old balls like you know, it could come down to.

Speaker 3

Anything we've worked for similar people.

Speaker 2

And these people are nuts, and you know, they're power hungry, and to them it's a personal project. They don't even think of it as a multiple business. So you know, was he a victim of that? I mean, was it the Ray app stuff? As I've talked about here before.

That's you know, another angle which is really not at least at the very least I haven't seen floated as much, but was cited in the original La Times report, which listen, you know, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that Lachlan Murdoch lives in Los Angeles, so to figure out where exactly some of these leaks are all coming from.

Speaker 1

I do also think that to the extent that there is an ideological component here, like in the intro Republican party fight that is now started between Trump and DeSantis in particular, Tucker's on one side and Rupert Murdoch is on.

Speaker 3

Yeah, his flag is fully planted on Santa fully DeSantis.

Speaker 1

I mean, he told the Sants, according to Gabe Sherman's reporting that before twenty twenty, so before the election even happened, he had DeSantis and his wife to one of his estates and told him like Fox News and we are going to be with you, and you see that in their coverage. So here you have this very highly rated host who has a lot of sway culturally and with your audience, who is on the other side of that.

Speaker 4

I mean that is a rub as well in.

Speaker 1

Terms of the putting the business piece aside, because Fox News has always been at its core as well an ideological project, so I think that part is important here too. But yeah, it's interesting times is it is interesting.

Speaker 2

I'm excited to see what happens next, at the very least just to see people lose it. I would love nothing more than to see very very low ratings on Fox and for them to have Listen.

Speaker 1

I'm cheering for low ratings on every one of the cable networks because they're all poisoned.

Speaker 2

I want to see these people go down so bad, so listen. You should always know. There's a tremendous amount of copium in all my analysis cable news. I do try my best. I try my best.

Speaker 3

We'll see what happens.

Speaker 1

I mean, we're partisans in terms of hearing for cable news as failure. No one should delude themselves about that.

Speaker 2

Oh absolutely, Yeah, and you know, behind the scenes people, they've been trying to get me on Fox for quite a long time.

Speaker 3

Basics at the beginning of the show.

Speaker 2

One of the reasons you haven't seen me on the Talker Carlson Show or any show was because I just thought, you know, even if you know we he's.

Speaker 3

My old boss and we were friends and all.

Speaker 2

That is, I didn't feel like it was cool to participate in this corporate media project and you know, be necessarily a pawn in the Fox News ecosystem because it's outside of the talent itself. Whenever we're sitting here doing critiques of cable every single day. Yeah, you know, it just didn't square right to me. And especially because the format, it's like you're on their turf. You don't have same power.

Speaker 1

So anyway, Yeah, when you watch those segments, you realize just the setup and the constraints of it, you're never going to have.

Speaker 2

If I don't have enough time, then I'm not really there. Then I'm a pond right right, It's like you always have to think about it. Yeah, that's not to say that anybody went on was bad. You can always go on and make a point. I just always felt like it would have been hypocritical within the confines of the show.

Speaker 1

There can be good reasons to do it if you have a certain project you want to get up to. I mean mainstream audience, no doubt about it. But in general, and just like a run of the mill, Hey, we come on and talk about X, Y or Z.

Speaker 3

It's exactly that.

Speaker 4

I'm good.

Speaker 3

I think that's right.

Speaker 4

All right, let's get to it.

Speaker 1

Let's get to the latest with the dead ceiling, because this deadline is approaching faster than you may think. So the context here is that Kevin McCarthy had to really pull his caucus together and pass something through the House and an attempt to put pressure on Biden to try to negotiate. Now, if we breached the dead ceiling, it could be some sort of economic absolute catastrophe.

Speaker 4

So the stakes are very high.

Speaker 1

And as part of Kevin McCarthy's speakership deal with the holdouts, he agreed to some really eyewatering cuts and to you know, basically hold the country hostage in order to secure cuts that the House for dam caucus really wanted.

Speaker 4

So he was able to succeed. Let's go and put this up on the screen.

Speaker 1

This is a long way from being over but he got his bill through the House. There were four no votes. He could have afforded five no votes, so this was as close as he could possibly come.

Speaker 4

And that's no accident.

Speaker 1

By the way, they all trade off and figure out, like, Okay, who were going to be the no votes and who's going to take one for the team and actually go.

Speaker 4

Along with it.

Speaker 1

The no votes were all on the sort of for this right of the party. Gates, Buck, Biggs, and Burchett, all the more moderates ended up voting for it. Let's put this up on the screen. This is how he ended up securing some of the votes. So there were a lot of pieces that people across the ideological spectrum were concerned about. Initially, McCarthy had said, like, no, we're not going to make any changes to the bill.

Speaker 4

You've got to accept it.

Speaker 1

But then they did end up making changes to things like biofuel tax credits, work requirements for social safety net programs, and Inflation Production Act fund for a host of democratic priorities. Put this next piece up on the screen. This is why even though okay, there were no Republicans that voted for the Inflation Reduction Act in the House, I believe

that is correct. However, there were a number of provisions in there that are really beneficial to a lot of districts across the country, some of which are represented by Republicans in particular.

Speaker 4

And this is kind of bullshit.

Speaker 1

This is what the Washington Post that says ethanol clean energy fuel drama over GOP debt limit deal. All the Iowa Republicans were very concerned about these Inflation Reduction Act provisions that boost ethanol as a theoretically clean energy source.

Speaker 4

Now this is sort of a fiction.

Speaker 1

In fact, it's a total fiction that ethanol is in fact a clean energy source.

Speaker 4

But because Iowa has always.

Speaker 1

Long been very important politically, it will be less so on the Democratic side, but continue to be on the Republican side. Korn is king in terms of our politics.

Speaker 4

And so this is.

Speaker 1

Basically like a corn group of eight GOP lawmakers from the Corn Belt on Tuesday objected to repealing the incentives in the IRA for ethanol and other biofuels that have flowed to their states since the passage of the Climate Law. You also had some concerns from Nancy Mace about the repeal of some of the other inflation Reduction Act provisions. She said, we have a manufacturer in South Carolina in my district that builds the conductors for wind energy to

get it from the windmill to wherever it's going. She appeared to be referring to an energy company, Nexon's plant in Charleston that manufactures high voltage power cables that carry energy from offshore wind farms to land. That facility, announced in twenty twenty one before the Climate Laws passage, has brought hundreds of jobs to the area. Also in Mace's district,

she had a battery component maker, Redwood Materials. They're building a three point five billion dollar manufacturing campus also near Charleston. Companies said that the IRA did influence their decision to move forward with the facility. So even though Republicans didn't vote for the IRA, some of them like some of the provisions and were unhappy with them being rolled back.

Sager My read on how he was able to actually secure these votes in spite of the concerns is not only the little tweaks that were made, but also they know that this is not actually going to happen, yes, so they didn't feel like the stakes of voting for this were really that happening.

Speaker 2

Well, what had happened basically is he said, look, I'll give you guys whatever on the ethanol, but all of us know that this isn't going to pass. And what the reason was is he makes the case based on the analysis that I was talking about on our last show, is he was like, do you.

Speaker 3

Want us to negotiate this deal or do you want Mitch McConnell to do it, because if you don't vote for this bill, then I have no authority to negotiate with President Biden, and then we will have no seat at the table and they're going to ram it down our throats.

Speaker 2

So the House basically said, all right, well, we're going to try and keep our power.

Speaker 3

We have the majority in this chamber.

Speaker 2

It's one of the only places that we can still exercise power and extract at least some concessions should the time come. The thing is, too, is that what this does is it changes the negotiation dynamic. President Biden yesterday at the White House Joint Press Conference in the Rose Garden said I'm not going to negotiate with Kevin McCarthy about the debt limit. It's like, okay, well, I mean you could say that it's April twenty seventh, but let's put this up there on the screen in terms of

the reported amount of tax revenue. When the government will actually reach the debt limit. We don't know the exact date, but it is likely to come sometime in July.

Speaker 3

We don't know in July. Originally some people thought it might come.

Speaker 2

In June because tax revenue was flat, but a lot of people pay their taxes late, so now that they did, we will likely push it to sometime more squarely in July.

Speaker 3

So look, I think there will be.

Speaker 2

A lot of standoff and a lot of posturing now that this is over. Who knows around Let's say, what do you want to say three weeks before something like that.

Speaker 3

Then things will start to get interesting. That's when the Senate might get involved.

Speaker 2

They might try and pass an amend what I've previously spoken about, a revenue vehicle, to try and add their own version of the debt ceiling.

Speaker 3

We could have McConnell versus McCarthy stuff.

Speaker 2

We could have conferences between the Senate GOP and the House GOP in terms of what they're willing to negotiate, and then they present a uni fied plan to President Biden's about this is like step one, and we still have like nineteen store steps.

Speaker 1

And nobody knows what those nobody steps are, right, I mean, and step nineteen might be like literally off a cliff

for the entire country and the world and whatever. Even though this particular bill is not going to be what comes to pass in terms of, you know, the cuts that it entails and the specifics of it, that doesn't mean that there wasn't political risk and there isn't political risk for the Republicans who voted for it, because you can guarantee Democrats are already going through with a fine tooth comb and cutting ads against all of the members.

Speaker 4

That voted for it.

Speaker 1

Of like, here's what they did to veterans benefits, here's what they did to X Y or Z program that brings jobs that are important to this district. So you can already see in the initial phases here how this is potentially really a very bad situation for Republicans politically. And also here's the other thing. In twenty twenty four, doming Joe Biden's the nominee. They want to be able to run against him as like people aren't happy about the.

Speaker 4

Economy, inflation, et cetera.

Speaker 1

You own this, and so we're running against you on the economy. If they're responsible for pushing the country off of a cliff, you no longer can just pin the economic blame on Joe Biden. Now things are a lot muddier. They're a lot messier, and in fact, you may lose out that debate altogether. People may think that, yeah, you know what, you guys aren't good stewards of the economy,

and we don't really trust you on this issue. And you know, we've got other issues with you on abortion and other things as well.

Speaker 4

So you know, I think this is a.

Speaker 1

Potentially number one, I mean, the most important thing on the On the content like this could be extremely damaging to an economy that's already on very shaky ground, and politically, it could also be a disaster for Republicans. They are really playing with fire here, even as they're able to get their initial first pass through.

Speaker 2

Well, we do know from the twenty and eleven and twenty thirteen debt ceiling five if they did come back to hurt their Republicans, specifically the twenty thirteen government shutdown for John Bayner. They tried very hard try and get Obama to take the blame for it, and it certainly was the political boomerang, and it ultimately led to the end of the Bayner speakership. So recent history not that like it was literally ten years ago. We know that

they tried this before and it didn't work. Very similar tactics. We'll see as to where they come. The real problem, I think is the tight level, the tight amount of votes that he has in the caucus, and that just gives a tremendous amount of power to people who you know, may not even the mainstream Republican may not agree with, but they believe what they believe, and they're going to extract their pound of flesh.

Speaker 4

Well that's true.

Speaker 1

And if it does come to a bill where there are are real stakes, where it is going to be the real thing. You know, he barely was able to get this messaging bill through, I mean it only he could only afford to lose one more member, many of

whom were kind of on the fence. So anyway, I mean, in my opinion, the White House should allow them to you know, string them mount and allow them to play this little game, and then they should come in over the top and just you know, mint the coin or do something one are the workarounds they're not going to do it so that this isn't going to happen. That's my opinion of what direction they should go in here.

Speaker 4

But you know, I have I have no idea how this is going to be resolved, no clue.

Speaker 3

When they don't, I don't think you will do that.

Speaker 2

I mean, I think such an institutionalist is an institutionalist. We have the Budget Control Act of twenty eleven. People should go look it up if they're interested, which outlines the way that sequestration caps and all that stuff will work. Almost everybody I've spoken to says that, look, default, if it ends the same way, just because all the incentives go the same way, it'll probably end sometime in there.

Speaker 3

But look, we have no clue. They really could Look, they could shoot the hostage and it could be like an economic catastrophe, and then who's going to blink first? Who nobody knows? All right, right, let's talk about Ukraine.

Speaker 2

An extraordinary phone call happened yesterday President Shishingping and Zelenski of Ukraine speaking on the phone for the first time for over an hour. Extraordinary phone call let's go to put this up there on the screen. Very good analysis from the Financial Times. They say that Shishingping quote urged his Ukrainian counterpoint. This is according to the readout from the Chinese government to negotiate with Moscow. The first conversation

between the leaders since the invasion. In the hour long phone call, Ukraine's president said it was quote long and meaningful, and he said it would send a special representative to all parties. This is Shishingping to seek a political settlement of the war, according to this Chinese Foreign Ministry statement.

Speaker 3

The reason why this is so important is it comes on the.

Speaker 2

Heels crystal of the peace, a deal that had already been released by the Chinese government. The US government, of course, already shot that down. President Zelenski though, took it very seriously.

He understands that they have tremendous economic ties and also that you know, China kind of represents what I would say is the other view of the Ukraine conflict outside of the West, between Beijing, New Delhi and you know, even in South Korea, many of these other countries, in terms of how they look at the conflict, they look at it very much as look, look this is great power.

Speaker 3

We're not saying this is just, but this not a core.

Speaker 2

National interest, and we want to bring this thing to an end as soon as possible. The thing is, though, is that if you do look at the readout by Zelenski's office, it avoids any interest in negotiation and it says quote expresses hope for China's active participation in efforts to restore police but has dismissed the peace plan put forward by China in February and saying that there can be no peace without a restoration to nineteen ninety one borders.

So that includes not only CRIMEA, but it also includes all the territory that Russia has taken.

Speaker 3

I'm not saying that is it the way that a just peace would be, but I am only saying.

Speaker 2

That, let's be realistic possibly about where we may end up before hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people are dead and you end up in a similar situation.

Speaker 3

Anyways.

Speaker 1

Yeah, So there were a couple of other things I thought we're noteworthy. First of all, the US admitted that we didn't know this call was going to happen, So once again Ukrainian's keeping us in the dark, even though we are, you know, backstopping this whole thing.

Speaker 3

Might be the only time I'd say that's a good thing.

Speaker 1

Yeah, But I liked the way they had this sort of like cope of like, although we're really glad it happened, want the Chinese to hear the ukraining point of view. It's like, are you really glad it happened? Because previously you were saying that if China was able to negotiate a ceasefire, you would be opposed to it and potentially try to block it. So I thought that was noteworthy. The other question is why now, Because Lenski's been seeking at least a call and preferably a visit from she

for some time. This has been floating out here. We've been talking about it for a little while. So what happened right now that led to this phone call actually occurring? Put this next piece up on the screen. So it comes in the wake of this absolutely you know, fury

from Europe, which is pretty understandable from some of these countries. Honestly, after a Chinese diplomat basically suggested that some of the ex Soviet states were fake the word here they use is not sovereign, and so there were comments made effectively questioning whether the post Soviet states really had international standing by law, and understanda believe the post Soviet states were like,

what the hell are you saying? And so it's right after this when Europe is freaking out over these comments that were made to a French journalist. I believe, yes that you know the phone call. Actually, that's part of why.

Speaker 3

I thought it was important, just to be like, listen, is this real?

Speaker 2

I don't know, because really, China is really shot themselves in the foot with this one saying quote some ex Soviet Union countries by saying that don't have effective status under international law. It's also not some guys, really the US or the Chinese ambassador to France. That is as listen, you know, if you ever spent any time in those countries as I have, probably nobody hates the Russians more than people like the Latvians.

Speaker 3

And these Stonians. And there is nothing you could have said that would have pissed them off more than that.

Speaker 1

So well, I mean you basically call them fake country, right, So you know, if you're a patriot in those countries, I think you're gonna feel some sort of way about that.

Speaker 3

You certainly should. She fought for independence for like years and your you know, grandparents and other people were killed and sent to a gulag. I get it.

Speaker 2

So the point is that the Chinese may have just taken the phone call to appease the Europeans, because, as we know, Emanuel Macron went over to Beijing. One of the main things he was trying to do was get China to engage in some sort of peace negotiation on the side of Moscow to pressure them to end the war. We know that the Germans were over there, the foreign Minister, the EU president a commissioner was over there as well. They have been heavily pressuring Beijing to take the phone call.

Beijing kind of been holding out, probably as a favor more to Moscow. They might have just buckled here just to appease the Europeans, just be like, look, yeah, we took it serious. Also, I always want to note this when it has an hour long phone call, that's really only a half hour because it has to get translated two ways.

Speaker 3

You know, people always forget.

Speaker 2

That, But it's extremely tedious actually watching this because like a guy like Zelenski as Leon as guy.

Speaker 3

Speaks speaks Russian.

Speaker 2

But I don't know actually if any Chinese Foreign ministry officials speaks Ukrainian. But in some cases it can be like Ukrainian to Russian to China ease, and then it can come back, you know, on the phone call whenever these people speak, and usually they're reading from prepared statements, so it's not as serendipitous, I think as a lot of people think, you know, every time they say, oh, President Biden had a two hour long phone call, like so it was a one hour long phone call.

Speaker 3

Yeah, half of his translation.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it is still one hour.

Speaker 1

You know, it's a significant, lengthy ish conversation here. But I think you're exactly right, and you know, China really

wants to be seen. They want to maintain, uh somewhat of an impression of neutrality within this conflict, and so when this Chinese diplomat made these comments, I think it made them feel like, all right, we're appearing a bit too much, too favorable towards Russia, to partisan on their side, and so this was the way to try to clean it up and try to reclaim some sense of neutrality, even though you know, the US public doesn't see China as a neutral actor, but I think a lot of

other folks that are on the world do, and Selenski himself has been interested in getting them involved in trying to resolve this conflict.

Speaker 4

So that's always important to notice it.

Speaker 3

Yes, so just keep all of that in mind as it goes.

Speaker 2

But as as an act, it is still extraordinary. All diplomacy, in my opinion, is good. I hope that these people continue to talk. They're definitely getting a very different view. It also does show, you know, the Ukrainians, I've met some of them here in Washington, I think some of the most obnoxious people on earth. Like if you were one of those who says anything contrary to whatever their

Foreign ministry things, they call you a Russian propagandist. But clearly, you know, when the Chinese come out with a peace plan, if you said that here in DC, as we have, we've said something similar, oh smeared, you know, horrific, canny out beyond the pale. The Chinese say it, and Zelenski hops on the phone. Because outside of the Western context, these people are realists.

Speaker 3

They're dying. Not only that they dying, and we'll show you how much they are dying. They're running out of AMMO.

Speaker 2

Their economy has been devastated. And also they know how the real world works and that, you know, beyond the posturing for a bunch of people in d C spec typically my neighborhood, who have more Ukrainian flags and American flags, that in reality is going to end one way, and they want to try and get to that point.

Speaker 3

For us, they need us in a raw, raw modes.

Speaker 2

We keep giving them as many bullets as possible, but for the rest of the world, they're singing a very different tune.

Speaker 1

Look, they don't have the luxury of just putting up like a flag in solidarity.

Speaker 4

And calling it a day.

Speaker 1

They're living with the reality of the horrors of war, and they're not stupid. They see the same assessments that you know, we were able to see thanks to Lease the show basically like this is very likely headed to a grinding, brutal stalemate. So any chance to you know, improve position, achieve some potential talks. I mean, this is

beneficial for the world. It's beneficial for the Ukrainians, it's beneficial certainly for the US in my opinion, because this is I mean, war is a horror, This is a brutal toll that has been taken on this country and on this people, and so so yeah, I agree with you that you know, any potential talks, any discussion here, any diplomatic openings whatsoever, are to be cheered and encouraged.

Speaker 2

At the same time, as I just referenced, there has been a brand new information out of those leaked documents that the Washington Post has only now come around to telling us. Really interesting is in that crystal First. You know, we got to make sure that we know the identity of the leaker weeks ago, and we hunt first. Yeah, witch hunt first, and then the news second. Let's put that aside. They're the only ones with the docks. As

I've said, I'm long waiting for these docks. If you have them, please send them so that I won't write them with stupid headlines like this one, because they really bury the lead. In the trove of leaked documents, the US government estimates between one hundred and twenty four thousand and one hundred and thirty one thousand Ukrainian soldiers have been killed or wounded since the start of the invasion.

That is five times what Kiev has publicly disclosed. I'm not saying look, in this particular case, I understand why Kiev lied.

Speaker 3

To the world.

Speaker 2

I probably would too, sever devastating losses, and you don't necessarily, of course, want the enemy to know how badly you're doing. Russia also has suffered tens of thousands of casual hundreds of thousands possibly of casualties.

Speaker 3

Nobody knows what the actual figure is. But what do we learn from that?

Speaker 2

A it's not even close to the number that not only the Kiev government has been giving us, but the American Kiev propagandists in Washington. They're saying, look at how few the losses are the ratios they're doing so well well. This entire Washington Post article is using the PEG of these leaked documents to underscore how difficult the Ukrainians are having a time to draft men between the ages of

eighteen and sixty into the country and having reinforcements. They're talking specifically about how reinforcements our gate are getting killed or being wounded on the front line in such a fast turnaround that they're having difficulty replacing them with fresh recruits. And on top of that, who's going to replace the recruits themselves who get wounded or who get killed. In some cases, they're talking about drafting and bringing people in the militaryre at fifty two to fifty five or whatever

years old. Nobody does this unlit unless the stakes are existential. You know, you can go back and think about the Virginia, you know, the last stand of the Confederate Army and when they're you know, anybody who's basically an able bodied man I think at age was fifteen to sixty five or whatever was thrown into the military.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it was crazy, but World War One very similar.

Speaker 2

I've actually personally visited the grave sites of fifteen sixteen year olds who were killed in the British Army in France. The point is is that, you know, whenever things get really existential, that's whenever you see anyone the very young and the very old begin to fight and die in the in the conflict. And it also does show you and really raises questions around the Spring Offensive. Now, I think we've all learned enough lessons about predicting how the Spring offensive can go.

Speaker 3

Who doos did very well last time.

Speaker 2

It blew all apart all expectations. Clearly, you know, Bachmutz still has not fallen.

Speaker 3

They're throwing an extraordinary amount of man and materiel. But you can understumate the toll.

Speaker 6

You know.

Speaker 2

That's like saying, you know, that's like saying in nineteen fifteen, it's like, well the line is held in Verdun. I'm like, yeah, but you know, one hundred and fifty thousand.

Speaker 3

People are dead, So is it a victory or not? Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1

You know, there were some extraordinary details in this report. You know, we previously talked about how Russia had just passed a new law to make it more difficult to avoid the draft there with these like e draft notices that you know, you're assumed to have been served with your draft notice and you were barred from leaving the country, and if you don't show up then you're subject to all sorts of you know, you can't take down a

low and you basically can't do any banking. Your life is sort of shut down if you don't report to a draft office. And you see some measures being taken in Ukraine as well, and they have reporting in this piece about the methods that men military age men are taking in order to try to avoid fighting. In some instances, there are others who are willingly signing up, just as there are in Russia others who are willingly signing up

and want to be involved in this war. So they that previously officials could only deliver draft papers to people's homes. Some avoided the notices by staying at different addresses than where they are officially registered. New rules have widened the scope places where men can be stopped and questioned about

their draft status. It's also important to keep in mind that they point out here martial law has been in place in Ukraine since February twenty two, twenty twenty two, and it bars most men between ages eighteen and sixty from leaving the country at all. Under mobilization rules, any man in that range can theoretically be called to fight.

Exceptions are made, including for students, parents with three or more children under eighteen, caretakers of disabled dependence and those dem medically unfit, among others.

Speaker 4

So I think this just you know.

Speaker 1

It underscores the horse and the human toll and the number of people who are being fed into a meat grinder here. And there's nothing to say about it other than it's awful.

Speaker 2

It's awful, it certainly is, and also big development here in terms of our politics. Governor Ron DeSantis giving an interview while he was abroad in Tokyo to nik let's go and put this up there on the screen with a direct quote about what he said around Ukraine. Quote the Europeans really need to do more on Ukraine. I mean, this is their continent. The US has provided for security for them, and yes, Poland there's some stuff that they are doing and that should be appreciated. But Germany they're

not doing anything. Let's go to the next one there. Please quote. You don't want to end up like in a Battle of Verdune situation where you must have just had mass casualties, mass expense, and end up with a stalemate. He said, it's in everybody's interest to try and get to a place where we can have a cease fire. So look, it's at least a positive comment, and I think it also should be taken a note of this at this point, no matter who wins the GOP nomination,

Let's be honest, it's only gonna be two people. It's either gonna be Trump or it's gonna be Ron DeSantis. They now have a very different view on Ukraine than President Joe Biden.

Speaker 3

And Ukraine.

Speaker 2

This is proof is going to be a huge dividing line between the two. I also want to say this, does the Santis really mean it? I don't know, I mean.

Speaker 4

Does Trump really mean and I don't know does Trump.

Speaker 3

Really mean it? I don't know.

Speaker 2

I mean it's one of those where look with Trump, I mean, the guy had John Bolton in office with DeSantis, he had a very different tune when he was in Congress.

Speaker 3

He tells Tucker one thing, the next thing.

Speaker 2

You know, he's singing the Neo Kon tune in his Peers Morgan interview, where is he?

Speaker 6

You know?

Speaker 2

Is he going to answer more to his billionaire donor buddies who were super pissed at him for his previous comments on Ukraine. I view him very much as a very politically calculated person. Trump, I think isn't politically calculated. I think he just doesn't know what he thinks about anything.

Speaker 4

He's just like a very in the moment you're at player, Yeah.

Speaker 2

You're so listen on both of them, who the hell knows? But on rhetoric alone, and we have no idea on substance until we can't judge it on its face, it will be a dividing line in twenty twenty four. Yeah, and I think that's important. I think it's important for people to get a choice.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I think that's right.

Speaker 1

And I mean the question is always like how much is foreign policy? You got a factor into people's votes. The conflict, I think for a lot of people, feels very distant right now, even though you know it looms over everything. And obviously we cover it a lot here because it is really important and possibly even existential. But I think the other thing you can see from these comments is it won't be as much of a dividing line in the Republican primary as it might have been.

Trump has moved on to focus on other ways of attagging DeSantis on social Security, Medicare, Disney, which we're going to talk about later. And you know his theorizing that Ron DeSantis is a groomer.

Speaker 3

See yes, yeah, I know, in terms of what the fights between them are, but look on the politics on the substance alone.

Speaker 2

There's no getting around it. This is a big, big deal. How it will actually manifest Who the hell knows?

Speaker 1

Yep, all right, you guys are going to enjoy this a lot. Our eloquent vice president had some thoughts on the moment and the time and the moment that.

Speaker 4

We wanted to share with all of you. Take a listen.

Speaker 7

So I think it's very important, as you have heard from so many incredible leaders for us at every moment in time, and certainly this one, to see the moment in time in which we exist and are present, and to be able to contextualize it, to understand where we exist in the history and in the moment as it relates not only to the past but the future.

Speaker 4

What does that mean?

Speaker 3

Where does she come up with this? Like where is this coming from? Is it a speech writer?

Speaker 2

You know, like what's happening inside your brain that makes you think that this is eloquent or impactful?

Speaker 4

It's I mean, Marshall nailed it.

Speaker 1

I always have to go to Marshall's analysis, which is like she's trying so hard to like be profound, but has just nothing really to say. So it ends up like this And this is far from the first style. Is that anyone there are you know, anyone can have an instance where there's sort of rambles going on in nonsense words. But this happens all the time, this one in front of the cameras It's like, what are you even saying right now? The word salad is absolutely astonishing.

We're not the only ones who have noted that she is not the most effective politician, just in terms of her sheer talent. The White House and their Biden reelect team is apparently very concerned about the fact that she is in the number two slot. Let's put this up on the screen from Axios. They say, this is from Alex Thompson, who has just moved over to Axios as

national political correspondent. With polls showing VP Harris as a drag on the twenty twenty four ticket, Anita Dunn and other West wing aids are moving to elevate her issues and schedule.

Speaker 4

They also tell.

Speaker 1

A story here about how she left Cape Bettingfield sort of simmering for two weeks after it came out that Bettingfield had insulted her in some sort of way. Within the piece, they talk about how Harris's numbers are even worse than Biden's. Her approval is in the high thirties, Biden's is at least in the low forties.

Speaker 4

Neither is great.

Speaker 1

Officials believe that could make her a drag on the ticket. There's zero chance Biden will replace her, but because doing so would be an admission that he boshed the most important decision he made as a candidate. So the White House and campaign team are working to give Harris a boost, which her allies.

Speaker 4

Feel is long overdue. Good luck with that.

Speaker 1

Biden's campaign announcement video future shot after shadow the President and Harris together, as well as her meeting solo with voters. She's also featured prominently with Biden on the homepage of Biden's revamped website.

Speaker 4

Anita Dunn, who.

Speaker 1

They describe as one of the most powerful West wing officials I think that's correct, recently directed the White House political and engagement teams to help schedule events with Harris

promoting popular democratic causes such as infrastructure spending and abortion rights. Listen, they realize that when you have a president who Sager's going to get into some of the details here about Biden's age and how this fits into the historical picture when the actuarial tables don't look too hot for him in terms of finishing his next term, and his own White House Press secretary can't answer give a straight an about whether or not he even intends to finish his

next term. People are going to be looking at the vice president more closely, and they should be than even they normally would, and really evaluating is can this person? Should this person really be a heartbeat away from the presidency When you've got the oldest president in history and they're aware that there's.

Speaker 3

A real issue for that, it's going to be a big problem.

Speaker 2

I am. I'm doing my monologue just on all the statistics on Biden's This is very morbid, and I apologize, but look, he wants to be reality on earth, so we have we owe it at least somebody does to talk about chance of death, chance of developing dementia, chance of serious illness.

Speaker 3

While in office.

Speaker 2

I mean, the main thing I came away with in doing my research for my monologue was that the difference between seventies and eighties is so substantial that we really have difficulty wrapping our minds around, especially if you're younger.

You know, you think that they're kind of the same, But in terms of your chance of death, serious illness, chances of losing kind of losing your ability to think properly, and showing signs of mental degradation, the change is dramatic to the point that you really will have to see it, and I'll lay it all out there.

Speaker 3

But the point of that is she doesn't.

Speaker 2

She has a better chance of being in charge as President of the United States through his death or through his incapacitation than any vice president in modern American history. And I think people should really internalize that. There's a famous story about Lyndon Johnson. He was one of the most powerful people in America. He was a Senate majority leader, and he took the vice presidency under Kennedy. And then one of his friends said, what are you doing, Lyndon?

Why would you take this job? You know, it's the most BS gig And he cited the number of times as a US president has been assassinated at her office, and he said, I'll take my odds, darling. And he was right, you know, and that was just dying in office and being killed. Okay, that's not serving for the oldest man to ever hold the oval office. Yeah, really

put that in perspective. So outside of the very real risks actually of being I hope this doesn't have I'm just saying, like, you know, if you look at the statistics, all the history of that of dying in the Oval from unnatural causes. The risk of natural causes is exponentially higher than any man who's ever held the office. I mean, we're talking about an age here where a single fall is like could be deaf and once again.

Speaker 3

Like, I don't want it to be I hope that.

Speaker 2

Doesn't happen, but we have to be realistic, and he is asking us to put a tremendous amount of faith not just in him, in his ability to live, in his ability to conduct the job, and then to select this woman as possibly our next commander in chief. I could never pull the lever for her.

Speaker 1

I also think it's incredibly irresponsible that his team and him have seen her inability to rise to the moment and have to be aware that she is really not the person that you would want to be in the Oval office.

Speaker 4

But out of cube.

Speaker 1

Risks and out of a fear of admitting a mistake, they won't make another choice.

Speaker 6

You know.

Speaker 1

I think that really says something as well, that you know they see all this stuff as just a game, like it's just about the polls and the politics of it, and it's like, no, you have massive power and massive responsibility that should be your first and foremost consideration. Not saying he's any different from other politicians in that regard, but I think it's worth reflecting on that choice.

Speaker 4

That they know this is the problem.

Speaker 1

They know that, you know, she has failed to even be able to succeed as a vice president, let alone capable of handling the presidency, and yet they choose to stick with their choice just because they don't.

Speaker 4

Want to admit a mistake.

Speaker 1

Even some of the media is Listen, all the polls show voters seventy percent of voters don't want Biden, Okay, don't want Biden to run again.

Speaker 4

That doesn't mean that all those people won't vote.

Speaker 1

You know, some of them are going to vote for him because they also really hate Trump. Okay, but seventy percent of voters are like, please, could we have someone else? And a majority of them, what's their number one concern? It's his age, It's we aren't confident that he's going to be able to effectively and competently serve another term. So there has been a little bit of media scrutiny on this question, and he was recently asked about some of these issues.

Speaker 4

Let's take a listen to a little bit of that.

Speaker 8

You've said questions about your age are legitimate, and your response is always just watch me. But the country is watching, and recent polling shows that seventy percent of Americans, including a majority of Democrats, believe you shouldn't run again to.

Speaker 9

Age, you know, and pulling, Dad. I noticed. The pulling dat I keep hearing about is that I'm between forty two and forty six percent favorable rating, et cetera. But every bloody running for reelection and this time has been in the same position. There's nothing new about that. We're making it sound like Biden's really underwater with regard to a I can't even say I guess how old I am. I can't even say the number I've done register with me.

But the only thing I can say is that one of the things that people are going to find out, they're going to see a race, and they're going to judge whether or not I have or don't have it. I respect them taking a hard look at it. I take a hard look at it as well.

Speaker 3

I took a hard.

Speaker 9

Look at it before I decided to run. And I feel good. I feel excited about the prospects, and I think we're on the verge of really turning the corner and away we have in a long time.

Speaker 4

Brazie's like, oh, voters will have a chance to value and all.

Speaker 3

They won't.

Speaker 4

No, they won't.

Speaker 1

No, they won't because you have rigged the democratic primary. But the states and the order you want them, you're not going to host any debates. So yeah, if you have a full and open democratic process where oh you're sitting for interviews and giving more press conferences.

Speaker 4

This is like a very rare one that.

Speaker 1

He actually did, and people actually have the opportunity to evaluate you versus the alternatives. And you even acknowledge that the alternatives exist.

Speaker 4

Okay, that's a different deal.

Speaker 1

But they've gone above and beyond to shut down any sort of primary process. For all their talk of democracy, when it comes down to it, their whole strategy, and this is what I'm talking about in my monologue, in part given Bernie's endorsement of Biden, their whole strategy is to make people feel like you have no other choice, that there are no other quote unquote serious candidates. In the primer, we're about to show you some polling that may say otherwise.

Speaker 4

And in the general election, Trump.

Speaker 1

Is so bad that it's effectively no choice as well. They don't want a democratic process, they want a coronation. They want people to feel they have no other option.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 2

We're going to talk very specifically about the polling, which is insane, which the media would really rather that you not hear about. And altogether, I just think that the way he has handled it is outrageous. And I also just do want to show everybody a little bit behind the scene, which we always tried to do here.

Speaker 3

Put this up there on the screen.

Speaker 2

Biden cheat sheet shows that he had advanced knowledge of a journalist question.

Speaker 3

That wasn't the question that you had in front of you.

Speaker 2

It was actually the next question where he called on a reporter, the La Times reporter Courtney Subramanian. Now the reporter asked him a question specifically about re shoring semiconductor

manufacturing with Alliance based policy. What you can actually see in the cheat sheet that was zoomed in on by the photographers who were present there in a picture captured by Getty Images, they show not only her face, they have her title, the pronunciation of her name, and right underneath her question they have bullet points for his answer on what he's supposed to say.

Speaker 3

Now, I want to say this again.

Speaker 2

I covered the White House and getting a question before these things. It's a dirty game. The way it works is there's one hundred people there, right, you only get two. It's called a two and two, so two and from the Americans and two from the foreign press. But he's lobbying the Press secretary to get a question. You're already pre selected. I was pre selected many times. That that's how it goes. And also part of the game, though, is they call you and they go, so, what do

you want to talk about? And you say, you know, I can't ask that. You know me, I'm a fair guy. You can choose me if you would like, But I'm not going to get into it. There's a lot of different things I'd like to ask the president about it. Again, it's all a game in case somebody slips up and says, here's exactly what I said.

Speaker 3

I'm not so sure this was a slip up.

Speaker 2

I think this was a direct here's what I'm going to ask, and you know why, because look, I think semiconductors are important. But I'm sorry, you get two questions before the president. The first is obviously about the re election. And the second one is about semiconductor manufacturing policy.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's insane, that's ridiculous. Yeah, like you, there are so many more pressing things that you could have asked the man about, and that was the biggest plant that I have ever seen before.

Speaker 4

I mean, it's embarrassing for everyone involved. Yeah, clearly his.

Speaker 1

Staff, as you point out, every president, everybody's staff.

Speaker 4

Try to get a jump on our right.

Speaker 3

What are these?

Speaker 4

It's all we asked. It's no doubt about it.

Speaker 1

But embarrassing for him because there's already these questions about could you handle a question coming out at you that you weren't expecting. Number One, humiliating for this journalist because the question that's listed on the sheet is like verbatim's.

Speaker 2

Exactly what you said, which is crazy. She might have emailed it to them.

Speaker 1

That's what I'm starting, right, So, I mean it is the verbatim question that she ends up asking, not just some general sense of h she might ask about some countries conductors. No, no, no, here is the specific right that she is going to use. And here's, sir, are your bullet points of what you are supposed to reply, So listen, put this in the context of the president who was given the fewest press conferences, that for the fewest interviews, all of their democracy dies in darkness, liberal

media whatever. If Trump was this shut off.

Speaker 4

From the media, they'd be freaking out.

Speaker 1

If the Republicans were blocking any sort of primary debates, they'd be freaking out. And in fact, there has been lots of outrage coverage about trum is now suggesting, which is not okay either, that he may sit out from the Republican primary debates.

Speaker 4

Well, there's lots of outrage.

Speaker 1

They can see how that's anti democratic when it's on the Republican side, But when it's Joe Biden, that's all fine and good and it's just what we expect. At the same time, there's huge effort now in the media to once again paint him as like always so electable.

Speaker 4

It's going to be shoeing, no problem.

Speaker 1

David from with one example of this genre of analysis. Now, put this up on the screen. He's saying the coming Biden blowout. Republicans thought about running without Trump in twenty twenty four but lost their nerve. They are heading for electoral disaster again. Maybe possible, you know, I mean, Democrats did better in the midterms than they were expecting. They still did lose the House, so it's not like it was amazing.

Speaker 4

For them there either.

Speaker 1

Maybe people are so done with Trump that they suck it up and vote Joe. I think that's a very possible outcome. I also think it's a very possible outcome that we end up with Donald Trump back in the White House again if he ends up being the Republican nominee. And also, by the way, it's not clear to me that DeSantis or another Republican candidate is actually more electable.

Speaker 4

Than Trump either.

Speaker 1

Maybe again possible, but that is much murkier to me than it is to people like David Frum who apparently learned absolutely nothing from twenty sixteen.

Speaker 2

Yeah, these people are nuts. I mean, go and put the next one out there, please on the screen. Like, look at the general election polling, people like, it's not great for Joe Biden.

Speaker 3

It has RCP average at Trump one plus three. Now, look, who knows.

Speaker 2

The RCP average was off by about four in the Democratic direction in twenty twenty two, it was off by about four in the Republican direction in twenty twenty, so I guess it averages out.

Speaker 3

I don't know which way to read that.

Speaker 2

What I do know is crystal if it's off by four and so basically, unless you're leading by anything out of that, you're within the margin of error. And if you're within the margin of error, well you can lose or you can win if you're Trump. So maybe have a little bit of humility about what the hell is going.

Speaker 1

They are all cheering for Trump to be the nominee once again, and I just they learn nothing. They learn absolutely nothing. And also, by the way, many of these people became very wealthy and famous in opposition to Trump, so they have their own sort of incentive as well for him to be the party nominee.

Speaker 3

On the Republican side, absolutely right.

Speaker 1

At the same time, so there have been a million polls of the Democratic primary race, and normally what they do, and I have never understood this, is they'll put a whole laundry list of candidates in there who have no intention of running, who have said they're not going to run. I mean, they've pulled like Michelle Obama and all these people who were like, I am.

Speaker 4

Not running in the primary. But they'll put this whole laundry list of candidates.

Speaker 1

Oftentimes they'll completely leave off Mary and Williamson and now Bobby Kennedy even though they are actually running and they are in the race. Well, now we have a very clear picture of who the Democrats in contention are going to be. They have all now announced. Probably, I mean, I think it's unlikely that you see any other entrance. I don't see anyone else making any noise about it. You've got Mary and Williamson, you've got Bobby Kennedy Junior,

and you've got Joe Biden. So lo and behold, one news organization decided, let's actually pull on the contest that exists rather than this weird fantasy one where we're running AOCM Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton and every other laundry list of candidate. And the results are kind of interesting. Put this up on the screen. This is Fox News poll. They're you know, serious polsters over there.

Speaker 4

Joe Biden's is.

Speaker 1

Sixty two percent, Robert Kennedy Junior nineteen percent, and Marian Williamson at nine percent.

Speaker 4

So you've got you know, third, You've got a.

Speaker 1

Third, and you've got you know, more than a third of voters who are not backing Biden. Here those numbers, considering the media has completely pretended like these two candidates don't even exist right, anytime they even get mentioned, it's always couch and all this language about they're a long shot, they don't have a real shot, they're not considered serious, they're you know, like all of this language to try

to dismiss them or invisibilize them entirely. They've been mocked and derided in the media, and yet clearly there is an appetite from voters for something other than a coronation. They are open to options, they would like to hear more about the options, and at the very least, they deserve to be able to see these candidates debate their ideas and if at the end of the day they decide, listen,

Joe Biden is our best bet for whatever reason. Okay, but the fact that they are openly explicitly the Democratic Party blocking any sort of a real primary process is truly unconscionable, given the fact that there is a real appetite obviously for alternatives.

Speaker 2

Yes, absolutely, it's stunning. Also just to consider the media treatment. I mean, somebody is pulling in nineteen percent, that is, I mean, in some polls that's almost equivalent to how much Ron DeSantis has versus Donald Trump. So you've got to treat that person fairly. By the way we are working right now and getting RFK Junior, So RFK if you see this, Yeah, trying to have you on the Show've been in communication with people around you, et cetera.

But yeah, we're trying to make that happen because that's what we believe in. Here is let's talk like, let's figure this out. Nineteen percent of people are interested in you have your father's book right behind me. Actually, that's an original that I found very interesting. The point is is that these people are showing the path to an alternative, and at the very least Crystal, they deserve.

Speaker 3

Time on the stage.

Speaker 2

You can't not have a debate where he doesn't get to be on the stage and Marianna doesn't get to be there either. They're well over the two percent threshold that they were allowed to be on the stage in twenty twenty in an open primary, and they are rigging this system.

Speaker 3

If you think twenty sixteen.

Speaker 2

Was rigged, and if this is like another level, yeah of the primary changing the schedule and having no debate, that's genuinely nuts to not allow that.

Speaker 1

You know, I may do a monologue on this next week. It was about a week ago. One of the New York Times podcast is called The run Up. They went and they interviewed DMC members about the reordering of the states, and some of them were out right. I mean, they were not ashamed of the fact that, yeah, we did the president's bidding. Yeah we ordered the states exactly how

we wanted them. I mean, they dropped this facility. It's still put up the language about representation, black voters, etc. But they sort of dropped the mask and were like, yeah, we are here to serve the president. We want him to be the nominee. We're doing what he thinks is in his political interest. And the fact that it adds this like representation talking point, that's all good for us as well. The fact that they feel comfortable admitting this

is astonishing. And you know, the New York Times has been part of this coronation process, but even they in that piece, we're like, this is a coronation, and I'm not sure how this squares with the fact that you have a clear, consistent majority of Democratic base voters who are like, we want an alternative, and yet everybody on the party, from party elites from every ideological corner, including Bernie Sanders, who immediately bends the knee hours after Biden

announces that he's running for reelection, all of them coalescing behind him in what is a very very anti democratic and sort of outright authoritarian fashion. Again, the very least that people deserve is to be able to hear these candidates that they clearly have some interest in, and guys, whether you want them to be or not, are clearly serious candidates as judged by the American people. They deserve to hear them.

Speaker 3

Debate absolutely real democracy.

Speaker 1

We've got an escalation we can tell you about this morning between run de sand and Walt Disney Company. So this is not necessarily a surprise, but put this up on the screen. Disney is officially suing Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. This came down yesterday on Wednesday over they say the Republicans takeover of its theme park district, alleging the governor waged a targeted campaign of government retaliation after the company

opposed a law critics called Don't Say Gay. That lawsuit was filed in Tallahassee Minutes after a Disney World oversight board appointed by DeSantis voted to void a deal that gave the company authority over design and construction decisions and its sprawling properties near Orlando. Here's the quote from the company.

They say, Disney regrets that it has come to this, but having exhausted efforts to seek a resolution, the company is left with no choice but to file this lawsuit to protect its cast members, guests, and local development partners from a relentless campaign to weaponize government power against Disney in retaliation for expressing a political viewpoint unpopular with certain state officials.

Speaker 4

Just a brief.

Speaker 1

Reminder of how we got to this point. Disney has a sizable LGBTQ fan base or customer base. They also have positioned themselves as being sort of allies. So when this quote unquote don't say gay bill passes in Florida, they were under a lot of pressure to say something.

Speaker 4

They put out this, you know, sort of late.

Speaker 1

And not all that strong statement about it, but in opposition to it. DeSantis takes it as an opportunity to stand up to the woke corporation. And what they take amatt in particular is this reedy Creek Improvement District, which is a crazy It is a crazy So since the sixties, Disney has effective control, Like they run their own town, they tax themselves, they can issue bonds, they can build.

Speaker 4

A nuclear power plan.

Speaker 1

Apparently they just have control of this whole thing. Now, this has been beneficial in certain ways for the state because Disney's obviously brought brings in lots of tourist dollars and generates lots of economic activity. Uh, they employ tens of thousands of people in Florida. So it's been that's been the partnership. And it's very clear that DeSantis decided

to retally. I mean, I don't think anyone can look at the situation and come away with any other idea than he decided to retaliate against him because he didn't

like the political perspective that they were offering. Disney pulled kind of a fast one on DeSantis, though, and it left him looking a bit foolish because at the very end, before they put the DeSantis appointees on this Reedy Creek Improvement Board, the Disney Favorable Board passes this development deal, effectively taking control away from the board and handing it back to Disney. So now DeSantis has been maneuvering with his appointees to try to undo that and unravel that, etc.

And now we're at loggerheads with this lawsuit. The other piece of this from a political perspective, I've got some pulling on this that shows this kind of it's a little bit muddy.

Speaker 4

How this is all going to.

Speaker 1

Work out for him is after Disney was able to pull a fast one on him and get the upper hand, a lot of his Republican adversary came out, including Nikki Haley, but including most importantly Trump, who said he's getting killed by Disney and this is all a pr stunt, and he really planted his flag very aggressively in opposition to what DeSantis is doing here and also just trying to paint DeSantis's like weak and foolish that he got played in this way. So DeSantis has been scrambling to figure

out what to do and just his re minder. He like had a kind of weird press conference where he was floating like, oh well, maybe in response, I'm going to build my own theme park, or maybe I'm gonna put a prison next door to Walt Disney. Take a listen to what he had to say, maybe.

Speaker 5

Have another maybe create a state park, maybe trying to do more amusement parks. Someone even said like, maybe you need another state prison.

Speaker 3

Who knows.

Speaker 8

I mean, I just think that the possibilities are endless, and so that is now going to be analyzed to see what would make the most sense.

Speaker 1

So let me just say, Zagar on the legal merits, I genuinely have no idea, Like, it's very complex.

Speaker 3

Like it. You're not Florida property law.

Speaker 1

Experts, no, So I have no idea how this will be resolved legally. I will say from my general knowledge of the American legal system, gigantic corporations who can hire, you know, you know, spend billions of dollars on attorneys if they want to, they often have an upper hand in these disputes. And Disney clearly sees this as close to existential, very very important to them.

Speaker 4

So that's all I can really say about it.

Speaker 2

Here's the issue for DeSantis. You said you were going to pick a fight with Disney. So if you lose, you look weak, and if you come with the King, you best not mess and Disney that's it, you know, they run that state. It's like look at least when the Georgia legislature went after Coca Cola, they actually won. Or with MLB in this case, it's like if you lose, and you have a very.

Speaker 3

Good chance of losing.

Speaker 2

As I understand, once again, we are not experts in Florida property law and all of that. But if you do it in a haphazard way, and if they can prove that your actions were done in regards to try and silencing free speech, this is also the problem. You know, on conflicted level, I think it's crazy that a multi billion dollar company has self governance inside of a sovereign American state.

Speaker 3

Sorry, that's crazy.

Speaker 2

I don't believe that corporations, quote have free speech rights because I don't think that corporations are people. I don't think that they should be treated equally under the law. However, many conservative justices disagree that all the way goes back to Citizens United and actually would be very ironic if Citizens United itself is the one that came back to bite DeSantis in the episode.

Speaker 3

Very well. Actually, no, like on the.

Speaker 2

Merits, if you look at kind of the way, like whether corporations or whatever have free speech rights, I really don't believe that not because I want to silence people's speech, but because that leads to political giving advertising, which comes back to some of the woke problems I think we even have in the first place.

Speaker 3

Put that all aside. It politically he made it a thing.

Speaker 2

So now if you lose at your own thing, then you look like an idiot, and that's not good.

Speaker 3

And the chances again, now you're throwing it to.

Speaker 2

A legal fight where who the hell knows if this is even going to be resolved by the time.

Speaker 3

I mean, this is we got billions at stake.

Speaker 2

And if you think they're not going to fight till the end of time on this case, not at the jury level, at the appeals level, at the Supreme court level, then you're stupid too. So at the very least, like in terms of the talking point Trump and let's put Haley side, doesn't matter. Trump has got what he needs in his Amma, in his back pocket if he needs it whenever he wants a brand out.

Speaker 1

Well, the problem for DeSantis is, like most culture war outrage flare ups, people have already moved on from this, and yet he's stuck here now having to go up against this corporate behemoth. So this is gonna suck up a lot of time and attention because the upside at this point, if he wins, the upside is not that great because people have already moved on to you know, blud light or whatever. The next thing is going to be a minute from now. But the downside risk for

him is massive. And Trump clearly already smells blood in the water and is going.

Speaker 4

For the jugular.

Speaker 1

And if he does lose against Disney, or even appears like he's losing against Disney, Trump is never gonna let you hear the end of it. On the polling of how people feel about it already, it's kind of mixed. Put this up on the screen. Only forty four percent of Republicans say that they have a more favorable view of DeSantis because of the fight with Disney, So it's not like this was a clear, gigantic winner for him.

Seventy three percent of respondents say they are less likely to support a political candidate who backs law is designed to punish a company for its political or cultural stances. That includes sixty three percent of Republicans who sort of don't like the concept of it, and they polled specifically, you know, they try to give DeSantis' argument for this versus the free speech argument against DeSantis. They say DeSantis has argued his actions against Disney were rightfully rolling back

special treatment for the company. Some sixty four percent of Republicans agreed, with thirty seven percent, though siding with the vast majority of Democrats and also majority of Independents who say DeSantis was punishing Disney for exercising free speech. So yeah, a majority of Republicans are kind of siding with him, but you got a sizeable minority thirty seven percent who

are not. And I have to think if Trump really digs in on that iss on this issue, that number is only going to shift more to the other side.

Speaker 2

I'm really sure the merits matter at all, to be honest, I just think it's all comes down to optics.

Speaker 3

You pick a.

Speaker 2

Fight, you're lose. You just look like it's very base. It's like, you made this a thing, dude. You know the bud Light thing is instructive. No governor was like, oh, we're gonna punish bud Light. A brunch of conservatives were like, we're not going to buy bud Light. Bud Light a bunch of its executives and apparently their sales are down

by seventeen percent. Now in general, I don't know if Boycott's work or not, but you know, people who are anti bud Light can claim victory because they did win and they didn't actually have to really do anything except talk about it.

Speaker 3

So all you really would have had to do in the Disney case is be.

Speaker 2

Like, well, you know, we're not going to stand by Disney, and then Santas doesn't go to some Disney event, you probably would have the same political level of upside that actually winning on this Reedy Creek fight would have had in the first place, without any of the downside politically anyway, an interesting concert.

Speaker 1

Let me there's one more thing I want to point out here, and I'm going to pull up some numbers that I was looking at that same Fox News pool that we showed you the Democratic primary numbers on they tested the Republican primary numbers and Donald Trump was winning by a significant amount.

Speaker 4

But what is really important to.

Speaker 1

Understand is the differences in their coalitions. So if you test white people with a college degree, it's tied tiede Donald Trump is at thirty six, DeSantis is at thirty five, So effective tie within the margin of error. That's college degree holders, white people with no college degree sixty one percent for Trump, fifteen percent for run DeSantis. So why am I bringing this up? That college degree holding were

affluent part of the Republican base. They're very pro business, tend to be much more of the like traditional Reaganite conservatives.

Speaker 4

Yeah, they're more like Romney type.

Speaker 1

People that look at this and are like, why are you being anti business? So he's taken a position that's kind of at odds with his own natural constituency. Not to mention the donor Glass hates this sort of thing. They're not on board with it whatsoever. And meanwhile, it's funny because you know the Trump bass would be more likely to view this move favorably, but now you've got Trump coming in to trash to Santis over so they're not going to be on.

Speaker 4

Board with you either.

Speaker 1

So he's really kind of politically exposed here and wrapped up in something that is much bigger than probably what he really wanted to bite off.

Speaker 3

Very true. Absolutely, it looks like a fool in my opinion.

Speaker 2

All right, let's talk about Nate Silver, some big news that just fits with so much of what we've been talking about.

Speaker 8

Here.

Speaker 3

The twenty tens media era.

Speaker 2

Is officially over. Go ahead and put this up there on the screen. Nate Silm five thirty eight is out at ABC News as Disney layoffs once again hit the news division. So Nate actually revealed in a tweet that he would be leaving five thirty eight and then five thirty eight employees had been heavily impacted by layoff.

Speaker 3

Announcement at ABC News.

Speaker 2

For those who don't remember, five thirty eight was an independent political website that was started by Nate Silver after he left The New York Times With the five thirty eight blog, it was very successful, had a good track record up until twenty sixteen started his own website, which was then bought by ABC News as part of the

Disney portfolio. It was seen as one of the darling companies of the twenty tens, like the blogger era of a guy like him who could literally go from playing shit posting on Twitter and playing online poker two becoming you know, the guy who called the twenty twelve election, and now to see him out of his own company, which is crazy and also, by the way, why you should never see or at the very least you are going to sell like you should have protections. Here's what

he has to say. Put this up there on the screen. Disney layoffs are substantially impacted.

Speaker 3

Five thirty eight. I'm sad and disappointed to a degree that's kind of hard to express. Right now.

Speaker 2

We've been at Disney almost ten years. My contract is up soon. I expect I will be leaving at the end of it. I've been worried about an outcome like.

Speaker 3

This and have had some great initial conversations with opportunity elsewhere. Don't hesitate to get in touch. I'm proud of the work. Five thirty eight. Staff.

Speaker 2

It's never been easy. I'm sorry to the people who have been impacted by this. I put this together with a couple of things, the end of BuzzFeed News, the decline, and let's go back in time. It's twenty twelve. Silver is a rock star. His book was called The Signal and the Noise. That book was like number one on Amazon after his model called the twenty twelve election. This guy is like getting you know, book contracts, and money's being thrown at him. At five from The New York Times.

Everybody loves this guy. BuzzFeed News. They are the hottest thing on the block. Mike dot Com. They're killing it for millennials. They're crushing it on Facebook. You've got Gawker, right, Goker still exists.

Speaker 3

All these companies.

Speaker 2

Gowker's on the upswing, like they're swinging and punching.

Speaker 3

And now it's twenty twenty three. It's a decade later.

Speaker 2

They're all dead. They're gone, like hollowed. Business insiders still around. I guess if you want to have a paywall for clickable articles. And then wes Is, I don't know what the hell is going on there. They to be fair, I think Wece was the best of all of them.

Speaker 3

I loved Vice.

Speaker 2

I'll always stand by some of their early content, but I think they very much lost their way, and Jane Smith made some questionable business decisions which certainly benefited him personally, but which necessarily work out for the company. They're still trucking along, I guess, but it's not even close to the level what they were or Look at vox Media. Vox Media was one of the biggest startups of the twenty tens, built on the click model era, and now

they're two founders. One is on substack, Matt Iglesias and Ezra Kleine works over at the New York Times and his wife works for the Atlantic. It's like you either became an institutionalist or you went independent.

Speaker 3

There really was no in between for this clickbase media.

Speaker 2

So I'm looking at it almost as a metastory just to say wow, like wow, man, the blogger era is dead. All of the big bloggers who everybody thought was going to be the new it thing, they went. They made the wrong bet. They thought that they could sustain themselves on the click model or in partnership with traditional media, and they got burned. The ones who went independent, they're still trucking along and they're doing okay.

Speaker 1

Yeah. With regard to this particular business decision, and you and I were talking about this, I honestly from Disney's I don't quite understand it, because i'd have to know, I guess more than numbers. But I feel like Nate Silver is a bigger brand than five thirty eight, like, if anything, And I have to think that the burn for the whole five thirty eight operation would be more than this one guy, even though I'm sure he's very well paid. So I find it a little strange from

a business decision perspective. But putting that aside, what all of these companies have in common is that they're built on a business model that just doesn't really work anymore and they were unable to adjust. That's really the bottom line. And some of them there are ideological issues as well.

I do think the whole polling analysis industry was certainly hurt by the unexpected results in twenty sixteen and by the fact that in every election since then, the polls have been off in some significant way.

Speaker 4

So people just don't look to the polls as the gospel that they used. So let's be honest, No, they absolutely shouldn't.

Speaker 1

And so I think that, you know, so the core of the Nate Silver philosophy is that this is the thing that you should rely on, that there are models that you can use that can work out pretty well what's going to happen and predict these elections, and that theory has taken a big hit from twenty sixteen and really in every election since then. So I think that's part of the backstory here too.

Speaker 2

Yeah, just you know, just thinking about it in terms of like the meta story here.

Speaker 3

I feel bad for him.

Speaker 2

I mean, I do think he was a genuine talent. He had some pretty heterodoxic views, you know, at some point he was a media critic too, in his own right. Sometimes it didn't necessarily always agree with him. But he had a lot of people into politics.

Speaker 3

I'll say that a lot of people got into politics because they enjoyed tracking five thirty eight polling.

Speaker 2

I've seen that too. It's kind of like an easy gateway drug for a lot of people.

Speaker 3

And I'm sad.

Speaker 2

I'm sure he'll be fine, But five thirty eight was a cool thing. It didn't work out. I think they made many, many, many wrong mistakes or big mistakes in terms of their business model, hiring too many people selling themselves to Disney being one.

Speaker 3

But it was it was a cool project. And to watch it die, like, I'm not as gleeful as watching BuzzFeed News die. I guess.

Speaker 1

Yeah, five thirty eight is apparently still going to be around, but sure without Nate Silver, It's is a really five thirty eight. Yeah, like it's it is funny because I think if he had maintained his independence, they could have shifted to a business model that would work in the current era where advertising rates just aren't.

Speaker 4

What they used to be.

Speaker 1

And social media distribution isn't what it used to be. Because even though the polls aren't what they used to be, it's still Listen, you only have so much information to go on, so you have to look at what the polls are saying, and then you factor in a margin of error and they who knows, And it's been wrong in both directions in recent elections, so you know, keep that in mind, take it with the big grain of salt, and here are the states that have been the.

Speaker 4

Most of it.

Speaker 1

And that's the way that we've tried to analyze the polls. But it's still beneficial to take a look at his model to understand what his projections are. And I think there are a lot of people that would have paid to be able to benefit from that service. So I do think there's another universe in which he never sells and which he maintains it as his own outlet. But also, some people don't want to be business people.

Speaker 3

They just in the ask yeah, And some people just you.

Speaker 1

Know, they want to do the thing they like to do, crunching the numbers or whatever his deal is, and they don't really want to be bothered with the HR decisions and the tax system men, all of those sorts of things, and it's so Yeah, I do feel like it is a loss, and I do kind of feel for him because when you've built this is his baby. Yeah, I know, when you've built that up and then like you're no longer associated, but it's still going to continue on.

Speaker 4

We know a little bit of what that feels like.

Speaker 3

One hundred percent know what it feels like. That's really tough.

Speaker 2

And I look at the cost of dealing with annoying tax problems.

Speaker 3

As the cost.

Speaker 2

That's the cost of being independent and being your own boss.

Speaker 3

Yeah, that's basically how it works out anyway, Christal, where you take a look at this week, the.

Speaker 1

Current president launched one of the least inspiring democratic campaigns of all time. He released a carefully crafted video which promised literally nothing in the way of an affirmative agenda, with the tagline finished the job. Left unsaid was what job he planned to finish, since there has been nothing in the way of tangible goals or plan since the

implosion of Build Back Better. Biden then had the goal to go speak to some unions, presumably trying to put on his pro labor president stick, even as his unconsciable actions backing rail bosses over workers has already put to bed any notion that he would ever really stand with workers. Yet, in spite of all of the disappointments and broken promises of the first Biden term, within hours of his announcement, Biden's chief rival, the independent Senator from Vermont, Bernie Sanders,

has endorsed his bid. It's a final betrayal of the movement that Bernie himself created, thoroughly capitulating to Biden and the worldview that he represents. Depressingly, given Bernie's trajectory post

twenty twenty, this was not really surprising. Bernie told the AP quote, the last thing this country needs is a Donald Trump or some other right wing demagogue who's going to try to undermine American democracy or take away a one's right to choose, or not address the crisis of gun violence, or racism, sexism, or homophobia.

Speaker 4

So I'm in to do what I can to make sure that the president is re elected.

Speaker 1

Bernie didn't even make a single demand, didn't force a single concession, at least not that we know of. No demand for debates or renewed commitment to living bade Union legislation anything, Bernie instantly bent the knee, and he did it in exchange for less than nothing. It actually gets

even worse though. When asked about other primary challenges to Biden, Bernie actively discouraged others from entering, suggesting that this was the wrong focus for progressives and echoing the media's framing though we should all just accept a coronation of Joe Biden, Bernie said of potential challengers, quote, people will do what

they want to do. I think Joe Biden will be the Democratic nominee, and my job, and I think the progressive movement's job is to make certain that he stands up and fights for the working class of the country and does not take anything for granted. And without, my friends, you can see with undeniable clarity that the bastard's really got them.

Speaker 4

What do I mean?

Speaker 1

Well, back in twenty sixteen, Bernie's central and most provocative insight was that the only way to fight an authoritarian demagogue like Trump was through expanding democracy, enlisting an energizing new voters, showing that a multi racial, working class centric democracy could deliver on the material needs of its citizens.

In other words, it was a thoroughly populist pitch, which trusted in the voters of America, believed they could be persuaded and that only more democracy could really write the ship.

Speaker 4

Here he is making that case.

Speaker 10

You cannot be Trump with the same old, same old kind of politics.

Speaker 11

Wow.

Speaker 10

What we need is a new politics that brings working class people in Tawa political movement, which brings young people in Tuahwa political movement, and which in Novembo will create the highest vote to turnout in American political history.

Speaker 1

This view of politics was actually and still is deeply controversial. At a time when cable news is trying to convince you every single day that your fellow citizens represent an existential threat, Bernie argued that we should go further than ever to put our faith in them, to appeal to them, to bring them into the process. Bernie's policies, from medicare for all to free college were of course different from his opponents as well, but the most vital difference between

him and almost everyone else was his belief in populism. This, for example, is what really separated him from Elizabeth Warren. Bernie believed in the movement, Warren believed in the insider game, populism versus elitism. Now, the counter narrative to this populist approach was argued by Hillary Biden and all the rest. They argued that the threat from the right was too

dire to leave up to untrustworthy, deplorable voters. They argued, in essence, don't worry your pretty little heads about your policy desires or candidate preferences, because the serious people will tell you who you absolutely must vote for in order to fight fascism. Sadly, that counter narrative has been very successful. They convinced much of the Democratic base that their fellow Americans were terrifying, racist.

Speaker 4

And generally evil.

Speaker 1

They used this belief to justify in anything goes politics that included rigging the twenty sixteen primaries, rigging the Iowa caucuses in twenty twenty, and the Obama clibern media collusion that foisted Biden on voters in twenty twenty, as well anyone who dissented from this as a fascist or a useful idiot, or a grifter or some other terrible thing. Democratic elites are, of course running this playbook.

Speaker 4

Again.

Speaker 1

Biden's message, the majority of Democratic voters who don't want him and the overwhelming majority of all voters.

Speaker 4

Who don't want him is you have no choice.

Speaker 1

You have no choice in the primary because, according the elites in Washington, no quote serious opponents are running, and even if there was an elite certified serious choice, the Democratic Party has already rigged the primaries and killed all debates to try to guarantee a Biden coronation. Similarly, you have no choice in the general election because, just like in twenty twenty, Biden may not get your pulse racing, and may barely have a pulse himself, but at least

he's not Trump. This worldview is an all out assault on democracy. The theory is basically only liberal authoritarianism can defeat right wing authoritarianism. It is as stupid an idea as it is completely poisonous, and now it has the world's foremost former left populist standing behind it. Bernie joining the ranks of the anti democracy elitist is nothing short

of a tragedy. I'll personally always be grateful to Bernie for the movement he launched, the way it transformed politics, for the way it personally expanded my political imagination and fully shook me out of my partisan prism. There is simply no denying, however, that his defection to the other side of this debate has done massive damage to that very movement. Many have become dissolusion. They've given up on the idea that electoral politics can even be a venue

for real change. Others have followed Bernie into being co opted by the establishment elitist wing of the party. The number of supposed leftists I see fully supporting the DNC's decision to hold no debates and doing the work of smearing any and all potential primary challengers to Biden is extremely depressing.

Speaker 4

But all hope is not lost.

Speaker 1

As I report on Tuesday, younger generations, they're not really fooled by these lies, and they're much less likely to be kout and to believe in the arguments of a political class that has done nothing but betray them for their entire lives. Bernie's endorsement of Biden comes at kind of an ironic moment here too. He's just finishing up a media tour promoting his book, It's Okay to Be

Angry About Capitalism. It's filled with critique of the Biden wing of the party and outlines Bernie's long standing concerns about inequality and an economic system that is at this point less capitalist than it is outright psychopathic. I don't doubt that Bernie is still extremely genuine in his belief in the universal healthcare, canceling student debt, fighting climate crisis,

et cetera. But his full capituates capitulation to the elitist insiders means that these core policy commitments they only really matter on the margins. I guess in Bernie's new worldview, it's okay to be angry about capitalism, you just can't actually do anything about it. And Siger, listen, am I surprised? No I act?

Speaker 2

And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com.

Speaker 4

All right, Sciger, what are you looking at?

Speaker 10

Well?

Speaker 2

We have talked a lot here over the years about Joe Biden's age. It's perhaps the most fraught personal thing about the man. Anyone with eyes can see he's not who we are was, And yet if you discuss his decline, you're immediately maligned as some disgusting agist or a someone who discriminates against old people or against stuttering that miraculously reappeared when he started pushing eighty years old, and that

didn't exist for his entire professional life. In light of Biden's official announcement that he's running again in twenty twenty four, the country needs to be allowed to have a discussion that everyone is thinking, is it responsible to put someone in the Oval office who will be pushing eighty seven

years old? If he were to leave in January twenty twenty nine, not that long ago, the answer would have been a resounding hell no. In nineteen eighty four, there was a serious debate in this country as to whether Ronald Reagan should be allowed to serve a second term. He was a spring chicken by today's standards, only seventy three, the oldest president ever at the time, and he had to prove that he could handle the job for another four years. Reagan's first debate with Walter Mondale did not

go well. He appeared aloof and he was tired. The campaign actually brought it up and his doctor made a under and saying that mister Reagan was in excellent health but was quote tired.

Speaker 3

After his first debate.

Speaker 2

It made him just look older and more feeble than he was Reagan and his adviser Roger Ailes, who would later go to It or later go on to create Fox News, understood that he had to make it clear to the American public. He was not only with it, but he still had a killer instinct, and it culminated in one of the most famous moments in American political history.

Speaker 4

Let's watch your question to President Reagan.

Speaker 11

Mister President, I want to raise an issue that I think has been lurking out there for two or three weeks and cast it specifically in national security terms. You already are the oldest president in history, and some of your staff say you were tired after your most recent encounter with mister Mondale. I recall yet, that President Kennedy had to go for days on end with very little

sleep during the Cuba missile crisis. Is there any doubt in your mind that you would be able to function in such circumstances.

Speaker 6

Not at all, mister trud and I, and I want you to know that also, I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience.

Speaker 2

That was it even made his opponent laugh. Country loved it, and he won one of the biggest victories in history. Of course, maybe that shouldn't have been enough, though, because when Reagan left office, he abruptly retired from public lie and he had been suffering from the onset of Alzheimer's or dementia.

Speaker 3

There are a lot of questions about that.

Speaker 2

The facts are still unclear, as the Reagan family still today smarts at any suggestion that he did so while in office, but the.

Speaker 3

Example remains apt.

Speaker 2

Ronald Reagan when he left office was seventy seven years and three hundred and forty nine days old.

Speaker 3

That was on the day he left.

Speaker 2

Biden, on the other hand, was seventy eight years and sixty one days old the day he took the oath of office, extraordinarily old from day one and years later. He is asking us to entrust him not with one or two more years of some ceremonial chairman emeritus role, but the most powerful and demanding job in the world.

Consider what most Americans at Biden's age are actually The average age of a nursing home patient in the US today is eighty one years old, one year younger than the age he would be when he starts his second term. I often joke that people should take a look at actuarial tables, and I decided to do it myself. Statistics compiled by the Social Security Administration today, at age eighty, President Biden has a four point seven percent chance of

dying in one year. At eighty two, the year that he would be sworn in for his second term, he has a five point eight percent chance of death.

Speaker 3

The next year.

Speaker 2

After that, he would six point five percent chance, a seven point four percent chance a year after, an eight point three chance to the next, and a whopping nine point three percent chance of death his last year in office. I understand this is very morbid, and to be clear, I hope nothing but the best for him. I hope

he lives a long and a prosperous life. If he were retired in a nursing home like many people's age, it wouldn't matter, But it does matter when he has to make the most important decisions in the world.

Speaker 3

Note.

Speaker 2

I too, have discussed the probability here of only death, which is incredibly high in the ninth decade of life for most Americans. But what about mental fitness like dementia? Here the statistics are also troubling. The risk of dementia grows exponential from age seventy. Only about five percent of adults between seventy to seventy nine years old have dementia, sixteen percent of those adults beten ages of eighty and eighty nine have it, and twenty two percent of adults

from age eighty five to eighty nine. In other words, given his age, he already has nearly a one to five chance of having dementia if he doesn't already, and every day he gets closer to eighty six, his risk goes exponential. That's just dementia. What about the odds are just being in reasonably good health. Already at age eighty, Biden has less than a fifty percent chance of being in reasonably good health. If you look at overall population data, as you can tell, the risk of remaining so and

not developing critical illness dramatically increases over time. By eighty six, when you would have left office, the odds of having no serious illness are less than twenty percent. Once again, I understand this can sound callous, but let me tell you something that people who work in the medical field all know. There is a titan difference between being in your seventies and being in your eighties, you don't even

have to ask me. Look at this clip of Joe Biden from twenty seventeen on the View when he was just seventy five years old, and you have.

Speaker 4

Said that if Bo hadn't gotten sick, you would have you regret?

Speaker 1

Not right?

Speaker 3

No, I don't was the right thing to do for me and for my family.

Speaker 12

And look, I both wanted me to run, and Hunt and Ashley they all did. And when Bo passed, Hunt called a family meeting and said, look, will Biden's always do better under pressure? And why don't we use this as a way to rally and stick together and fight through this. And so about August, I said, okay, I'm gonna go look at it.

Speaker 9

I'll look at it.

Speaker 12

And I went out to go to the Merri Denver, who's a great friend and a supporter, wanted me to run. And it's still there. And I landed a Buckley Air Force Base and military base, and I got off the plane. Make a long story, not quite so long. There was a whole group of military guys and went in as a ropeline. I ran over to shake hands, tell them how much I appreciate them.

Speaker 2

He's not the same man. I've got eyes and ears. As to most of you, it's not fun to think about this, and that's a movie story. But people near their last years in life, they have a responsibility to themselves and to others. You got to be honest about your limitations. Biden and the media, they don't even want to talk about this when you have nearly a ten percent chance of natural death, when you have the most

important job in the world. I would venture to say it's one of the most important things for us to consider. Do with this information what you will, but you at least should have it. I mean, this is the thing I was trying to say. It's like people think seventy five to eighty doesn't sound all that different, but again, look at the actually and.

Speaker 1

If you want to hear my reaction to Cyber's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

Speaker 2

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Speaker 3

You're helping us out the new set it's coming in.

Speaker 2

You're helping us out at our cash flow crunch that we've got going on here, and otherwise, we've got great content for you all through the weekend and we will see you all on Monday.

Speaker 4

Love y'all, See you Monday.

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