Most stations are becoming relatively safer and taking fewer chances than ever. So I think radio needs to get a lot more provocative, a lot more emotionally connected and a lot more interesting.
BRANDwidth on Demand rebooting radio with a different take on all radio can be.
Nobody's innovating. Nobody's doing something that. Everyone agrees this makes sense and this will work, and nobody will do it.
Now your guides through the mediamorphosis, David Martin, and author of the book, BRANDwidth on Demand, media branding coach, Kipper McGee.
Tracy Johnson is a legendary radio consultant with over 30 years in the industry. He's famous for his innovative methods of boosting audiences and revenue at the same time. Tracy's helped numerous radio stations achieve great success. top market positions. He has a knack for creating compelling content and for improving listener experiencing. He has a knack for creating compelling content and improving listener experiences. It's made him a go to advisor for radio pros around the world.
Tracy's insights and strategies are constantly shaping the future of radio, ensuring stations stay relevant and engaging in what is obviously an ever changing media landscape. Today, he's here to share something that could change your life. No, really. Brandwith On Demand is proud to welcome Tracy Johnson.
Hey, Tracy. Hey, Tracy.
Thank you. It's good. It's good to be talking with you, Dave and Kipper. It's a pleasure to be on.
So question, you've been doing a lot of stuff, including, uh, all the recent conventions and whatnot. What are some of the key trends you're observing in radio programming, especially over the past year, year and a half, two years. How should young program director, content manager, whatever you want to call them, how should they be adapting to those changes?
That's a really complicated question, Kipper.
That's why I asked you.
I'll give you my overview on it. I think that radio programming has fallen backward over the past few years. Not because it has declined in quality or approach, but because it hasn't moved forward. In quality and approach in Dave's very complimentary and flattering intro, talked about how I've been instrumental in keeping radio stations relevant. And I appreciate that. But I don't think it's important to make radio stations relevant today. I think radio stations are already relevant.
Everybody knows what to expect from them. Relevant is no longer enough. We have to be much more top of mind because if you look at all of the statistics, time spent listening is going down. Occasions are going down. If you look at the rating services, they are having a harder and harder time recruiting a sample that will participate with the rating system. And the reason is because there are fewer and fewer people who are using radio.
And I think that the reason is because radio programming has gotten more conservative. By comparison to the other media and the comparison I draw is, uh, to network television. Network television is just as well produced and well written as it has ever been. But if you go to some of the streaming services and watch some of the original series on Apple TV or Hulu or Netflix or Peacock or any of the other services and then come back and watch a network television, uh, series.
It's not very interesting anymore. Yeah. The networks are still competing NBC versus ABC versus CBS are competing for market share through a rating system instead of. Relevance or importance or top of mind awareness. And I think the same thing is happening with radio programming today where radio stations and broadcasters are measuring their success and how well we're doing against other radio stations, not peeding for attention. And we are competing with so many other things.
It's a, we're in an attention battle for top of mind awareness yet in doing so most stations are becoming relatively safer and taking fewer chances than ever. So, uh, I think radio needs to get a lot more provocative, a lot more emotionally connected and a lot more interesting.
Well, Tracy, how do you see the role of radio evolving then? What's the next step for radio?
Well, one of the things Kipper mentioned is what you would say to young programmers that are coming in. And I, what I would say to young programmers are be bold. And I would say to legacy broadcasters. Is, listen to them. Listen to them and take when, when the three of us were young programmers in our twenties programming radio stations, they kind of gave us the keys to the radio station and said, go, make it sound great.
Right...
and we were connected with what the audience was responding to at that time. But if you get a young programmer in place now, someone without. Decades of experience and wisdom and knowledge in the way that traditional radio views such things, nobody listens to them. It's execute the format that you're given, execute the plan that the court, that the company is setting forth, basically saying, learn to do it our way and don't screw up.
As opposed to go create something magical that can happen and attract a new audience to it. And I think that there's been a creativity drain that is kind of creating as a self fulfilling prophecy that nobody's taking any meaningful steps to be more engaging.
Risk averse. Yeah,
Risk aversion is what's happening everywhere on radio.
Yeah. And sadly, I have heard the position of program director be referred to in the past week as implementer.
Administrator and executor.
Yeah. Yeah. And that is exactly what you're talking about, which is very frightening. Cause if it weren't for the crazy cats, like the Norm WIner's at XRT and the Jim Kerr's and some of those folks all the way back, it could have been a pretty, uh, it could be pretty rough.
Yeah. Well, if you play that out. Look what happens. You end up with a talent drain because you get the truly innovative, creative programmers and personalities who get into radio because they think it's going to be exciting and they're going to make a difference. They find out that they can't. I'll just go start a YouTube channel. Instead. I'll start a podcast. Instead. I'll start being a video streamer instead, because these are creative people who have other opportunities and other options.
In many cases, they are, they're more creatively challenging. And at the same time, a lot of times they're more lucrative financially because broadcast budgets aren't getting larger. They're getting smaller.
Absolutely. So with the rise of all of those things from digital platforms to podcasts and, everything else that's out there. How do you see the traditional role of radio? Not how it's going to evolve, but how would you like to see it evolve?
I would like to see it change the model for how radio stations make their money. Uh, because I, this all comes back to how the account executives go out and sell advertising. And we're still selling 30 and 60 second ads to media buyers who are buying traditional media. And they're all speaking the same language that we've been speaking for 50 years. Here's our spreadsheet. Here's what our ratings are. Here's how we're doing against the other stations. Don't buy these other radio stations.
Buy ours instead. We're good. They're bad. And the net effect of that at agencies all over the world is Man, every radio station comes in here and tells me how bad all the other radio stations are. It must mean that they're all bad.
Yeah, I don't listen to it myself. So why would I?
Yeah, and there's got to be a better story to tell than going in and saying, here's how we're doing in the ratings against other radio stations. And most radio stations still have a very large QM. And in most cases, they've got a relatively high percentage of that QM that are P1s or fans of their station that we can have an influence on. We need to tell the story about the value of that audience.
And I also think that there has got to be a come a time where broadcasters are proud of what radio is, which is a media. That appeals mostly to a more mature audience, 45 plus, probably even 55 plus, but you still have sales departments who go into agencies and basically apologize for appealing to anyone over the age of 54.
We're still talking about 25-54 media buys, and if you do the research, the people over 55 control a disproportionate amount of spending that happens in North America today, and they're the ones who love radio the most.
Absolutely, and Fidelity and Schwab don't mind reaching them.
Oh, nor does Mercedes. Look at the artists, the music artists who have sold their libraries over the last few years and the hundreds of millions of dollars. They're selling those libraries to who do they appeal to 55 plus the Rolling Stones can get hundreds of dollars per ticket for a concert tour. How much does a new up and coming band? They can't get nearly that amount of money. As the legacy bands that are appealing to fans with deeper pockets and radio has those people.
We just need to tell that story and tell that story differently. Instead of telling it the way that the ratings services have positioned it to, to agencies.
Yeah, there hasn't been a lot of innovation in, uh, The sales department, that's for sure.
No, there hasn't. And I go back when I was managing my group of stations here in San Diego, 20 years ago, I pulled out of the broadcast group here and all the stations got together and said, how are we going to promote radio? And I pulled out of it because. We would all have these wonderful meetings about how we're going to raise the profile of the media in San Diego. And then the next day, everybody was out saying, Hey, don't buy this station because they're they're no good. We're good.
And I said, this is ridiculous. We can't have a meeting one day talking about how we're going to re rising tide lifts, all boats. And everybody goes out the next day and trashes each other.
Good point. No, it's an excellent point.
And we wouldn't do that. And they would not stop doing it. So I just pulled out of that because we told our story differently.
And we're going to talk about younger audiences, I guess. So Tracy, how can stations better connect with a younger audience? We've talked about all these folks that are 55 and older and radio does an excellent job there, but what about the future?
Well, there's very few broadcasters who. would disagree with the statement that commercials on the radio are a problem in attracting younger audiences, but nobody's willing to do anything about it. And until somebody is willing to do something about it, we're not going to get younger audiences. I found in focus groups, younger listeners. Really aren't angry at radio. They don't dislike radio. They just have no use for it because every time they turn it on, there's commercials on all the time.
And then when they when the commercials come on one station, they're okay with that. They're going to tune out. And when they tune out, they go to another station. But every station, the markets bow tied at exactly the same time. So the impression we give them is that every station plays too many commercials. It's just all at once. And after a while, it's that fatigue that sets in and they decide radios, not for me, they play way too many commercials. And that is true.
That's logically true that radio stations all do play too many commercials, but we make it sound like we play even more than we actually do because of the way we use the radio. So we got to fix that. We got to fix, we got to stop chasing Nielsen ratings. Or whatever the ratings are, raise our ratings in in Europe. We gotta stop chasing those ratings and chase fans.
We gotta go from how can we get another quarter hour of listening out of this meter respondent to how can we build more fans for the brand? And that's a very different programming proposition. And when we start looking at how can we can build a larger fan base, I think we have the potential of bringing some younger people back to spending more time with the radio, because again, they're not against listening to the radio. They like having the option. They just.
We just do a lot of things that make it hard for them to listen a lot.
Indeed. So looking ahead, turning the coin, what do you think will be the most significant changes and opportunities for people in radio in the next decade or so?
I think there that radio is fast approaching a tipping point that will cause radical change to how stations operate, how they monetize their brands and how they promote themselves and pro and program themselves to an audience. And I don't know exactly what that's going to look like, but I think that if you look at the big companies who continue to cut budgets where there's no more budgets to cut.
And they still keep finding ways that they started cutting into the bone of these radio stations years ago. I don't know how they can keep coming up and looking for another 7 percent or 10 percent to take out of it. They are getting down to taking out the very heart of what radio stations offer to the audience. And when it gets painful enough, A completely different approach is going to have to set in.
And what that could lead to a renaissance of the medium and a renaissance of some of these brands, because the old traditional models are no longer going to work. There's a lot of markets in top 10 and top 15, top 20 markets. Where national buys have almost completely disappeared because there are no stations in those markets who qualify from an average quarter hour standpoint to get on national buys anymore.
Not the average quarter hour share, the average quarter hour rating, because time spent listening and QM have dropped to the point where it's not worth it. And then there's so much national inventory in the market. Right. From barter opportunities that the rate on barter has come way down. So there, there is a huge swelling problem of declining revenues and lack of innovation to, to turn that back around.
And when it gets painful enough, somebody is going to do something interesting and innovative, or the are going to be a lot of stations that go dark one at one or the other. So what opportunities are there? I think there are some really talented programmers and personalities who have amazing skills. They know how to tell stories. They know how to motivate audiences. They know how to drive a product. They have all the skills. That digital platforms are looking for and are hungry for.
It's just applying those in different ways. And I think there's tremendous opportunities that are out there outside of. The loudspeaker that is a broadcast transmitter. It's just a matter of if the really smart ones are looking for ways to apply those skills differently and by managing and controlling their own content.
Very good. Okay.
Excellent point. We can all learn something from Tracy Johnson. What a guy. Hey, Stony, you'd love to hear from, we'd love to hear from you. Send your suggestions to our email show at brandwithondemand. com or reach out to us on social BRANDwidth on Demand plus on Instagram, Facebook, and X that's BRANDwidth, P L U S. BRANDwidthPLUS.
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Coming up, Tracy Johnson explains a brand new show prep tool that also helps with on air delivery, social media posts, and a lot more.
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Exploring media evolution in real time. BRANDwidth on Demand.
We are talking with broadcast innovator, Tracy Johnson. Focusing this time on a brand new tool that your station's really going to want, especially if you're still wondering how to harness the power of chat, GPT, and all that AI stuff. Tracy, would you please explain to us what Radio Content Pro is all about?
I got involved with Radio Content Pro a couple of years ago when I was asked by a company to help them develop content for AI voices and AI bots. And we worked on that for about six months and we really nailed the content part of it and that has developed and turned into a team of developers who created AI bots that go all over the internet, 24 hours a day, seven days a day, 365 days a year and curate. Targeted content that is customized for a variety of formats and brands.
There are currently seven products in all, and two more that are coming for Hispanic radio that'll be out here in the next two or three weeks, but the bots curate the content. So they'll analyze everything that's in an article or a post.
And then curate it in 12 to 14 different ways for radio stations to be able to use it, to benefit what they do on the air, online, on social media, gives their personalities and all their content creators, unprecedented power to create original entertainment, original content.
So with all of this information flying at me, like I'm Can you explain how you break it down and make it usable for people on the station level?
No problem. We've got a product that's targeted to CHR and hot AC stations. It's called a radio content pro or RCP buzz one for rock, which we call edge. Another is for Mainstream AC, we call it Mainstream. One for Christian formats, we call RCP Spirit. Another one is for Hip Hop and Rhythmic CHR, it's RCP Hip Hop. Then there is one for News Talk that has recently come out, it's RCP Info and Country.
And then the two new ones are going to be two different services for different versions of Hispanic radio. And we have more coming. We have a classic rock, classic hits coming. We've got classic R& B. Urban coming as well.
So there's something for every format and then inside the format prompts that are able to curate that content specifically for the brand or for the format that you're in, you get some specific, uh, content based on your personality type, whether you're edgy, mainstream, or family friendly on every single piece of content. And we've just added a new bot. That will personalize it even more specifically for the individual personality, where you can take any piece of content, any tease.
Any news story any response, any blog posts that is in radio content pro and personalize it to get as specific as you want with it.
So if I'm doing a radio show and I want to have it focus on certain things, how do I tell it what I want to look at and what are the things I will get as the end product?
The story that I'm excited about right now just came to me this morning from one of our RCP info affiliates that's been using it for about two weeks and said that what he loves about it is the sidekick feature. That's the personalized AI bot sidekick lives in the bottom right corner of every screen and you can click on it and it opens up a dialogue. You could say something like, I'm looking to be more provocative with this content.
Can you give me some more phone topics that will anger this type of listener? And it'll take that topic and it'll juice it. It'll make it more provocative. Or another great use for that is if you're a good news station, have you got a good news feature? You're the glass is three quarters full. Like if you're in a Christian format or a mainstream AC, you can take even the most negative stories that are coming out and tell sidekick, I'm looking for a positive spin on this story.
Find a nugget of information that can be a good news story and tell me how I can share this with my audience to make them feel good about it. I mean, it comes back in just seconds with six, eight, 10 different pieces of content. That the two things that I got from this morning is one is how Sidekick localizes content. So if I'm in San Diego, I could type in to Sidekick. I want you to take this.
These topics and make them local for my audience here, and it'll start dropping in local employers and celebrities and landmarks and businesses and neighborhoods and communities and customizing the content to your community, which is really powerful This morning, aBRANDwidth. RCP info personality texted me and said, I've been using this on my talk show for the last couple of weeks. And what I'm doing now is asking it to argue with me. I'll tell it what my point of view or my perspective is.
And I'll ask, I'll tell sidekick, tell me all the reasons why I'm wrong about this. And it brings up all the talking points, all the provocative talking points that he wants to get his audience into when he goes on and does his talk show. And he says it's the most valuable part that he's been able to find with it. And I never thought about using it that way. So I'm excited about all the different ways that our users are starting to come up with to apply Sidekick.
Hey, some great stuff, Tracy. Thanks for sharing it.
Yeah, great stuff.
So now's the time if you want to put AI to work for you, Not instead of you. Here's a recap.
Imagine having your own prep team working nonstop, a producer picking the best content, a copywriter, making every story hit home and a marketer finding new ways to grow your audience. All while a digital team keeps your feeds fresh with posts, updates, and videos. What if these pros were available 24 seven market experience? Exclusive and affordable for your radio station. Power up your content before the competition does with Radio Content Pro. See the demo in action.
Just scroll down the show notes or visit radiocontentpro. com slash BRANDwidth on Demand
our thanks to Tracy Johnson. He's always got some fresh and innovative thinking going on Kipper, a special BRANDwidth on Demand Link. To radio content pro is in the show notes. Just scroll down on your phone or simply visit radio content pro slash BRANDwidth on Demand B R A N D W I B T H.
As always, we want to thank our exec producer, Cindy Huber, and associate producer, Hannah B, for booking.
That's a wrap, Kipper. In One Minute Martinizing we'll be talking about intention. All it's important stuff. What do you intend? I'm Dave Martin.
And I'm Kipper McGee. May all your BRANDwidth be Wide!.