The Untold Science Of Vibration Therapy & The “BioDrive” Breakthrough That Regulates Your Mind and Body, With Dr. Mike North

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Boundless Life podcast. But then it really got into creating just the right type of vibration. And it turns out there are just frequencies that are very well suited. for the human body these cavities resonate at different frequencies and you want to hit those resonances so that you're actually communicating not just at the skin level but all the way through to all the different organs welcome to the boundless life

with me, your host, Ben Greenfield. I'm a personal trainer, exercise physiologist, and nutritionist, and I'm passionate about helping you discover unparalleled levels of health, fitness, longevity, and beyond.

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podcast this one is an incredible discussion with a scientist engineer guy named mike north and uh i hope you enjoy it here we go mike i Just met you like an hour ago. I know, at least from my notes here, that you are a four-time Discovery Channel host, including this show, Outrageous Acts of Science. You've taught at US Berkeley. You've published in the journal Nature. and you're the CEO and co-founder of this company called Shift Wave.

You just got done running me through this crazy Batman pop-up lab in my home studio where you had wires sticking out of my head. And if you're listening or watching right now, stick around.

because towards the end of this episode the scene will shift and you'll be able to see what mike did to me the the stupidly comfortable stuff he did to me at the uh at the at the testing sequence uh for making a custom shift wave protocol uh which is probably putting the cart ahead of the horse because um before i hear a little bit more about you what's what's the 30 second elevator pitch on what the shift wave is

Yeah, and shift wave is very difficult to explain, as you know, because it's so experiential. And what it does to a person is something that you've really never felt before. So we really do struggle to explain it to people. And the best way is just to experience it. Yeah.

But the way I like to put it is it is the reset button for your entire system. You know, your computer's not running well. Something's going wrong. What do you do? You just reset it. And it's the same thing here. And by reset, I mean regulate you. mentally physically and emotionally simultaneously and it does this on demand and very reliably and the way it does this is by regulating your nervous system and your nervous system regulates the rest of your body

I was going to say it's a chair that vibrates and makes you feel good. Yeah. My 10-second elevator pitch, you were much more precise. And I want to dive into something just like the engineering behind. behind this and why it does what you just said that it does but besides the little bit that I know about you can you tell people how you like got into the whole like I'm gonna make a chair that vibrates and makes you feel good

Well, you know, it didn't start out as a chair. It actually started out as a 3D printed cast that used vibrations to help my leg heal faster. Really? Yeah, I mean, it's a long story, but oftentimes great things are born out of tragedy. And I lost my best friend, my soul brother, the person that I've connected most with in this world. He was climbing Mount Everest.

when an avalanche took his life. And that was devastating for me. And then at his memorial, all my friends knew I was hurting, so they all piled on top of me to give me a big bear hug, as friends do. And my foot rolled in a hole and it broke my leg. Oh my gosh. So here I am, broken by dead friends. I cannot make stories like this up. Oh my gosh. And he would always say, there's no problems in life. There's just opportunities. So kind of when I was wondering, well, what's the opportunity here?

One of my dear friends and a mentor and even kind of a father figure in my life, he sent me some research on using vibrations to help bones heal faster. And I read the research papers and I was compelled enough. to then get my doctor to cut my cast off. And then I made a 3D printed cast that had transducers in it. But how did you know how to make a 3D printed cast? I'm assuming you have a background in engineering or?

Yeah, I have a PhD in science and engineering, and then I was a Discovery Channel host. So you know your way around a 3D printer. We would invent things. My job used to be to invent the future. So I'm like, well, here's an opportunity. Let's invent the future of what the cast should be. Yeah. And rapid healing. That's so cool. Yeah. Okay. So you've heard this cast, the virus. You've heard this cast, and then, you know, you're making this thing. So you...

you might as well geek out. So I started putting pressure sensors in it, accelerometers in it, made an app that talked to it, pushed the information in my cloud. So now my doctor could monitor my healing process remotely. This got written up by Forbes magazine.

And then my friend from grad school read about it in Forbes. And he was working on a Department of Defense project making smart prosthetics for veterans. So could you make a prosthetic that had sensors in it that would tell you the emotional state of the person wearing it?

And so I pulled my mentor in, Alan Macy, who's the leading expert in psychophysiology, into that project. And very quickly, it was like, wow, you can put a sensor on someone's stump that is going to tell them that, oh, are they potentially depressed? are they at risk of suicide and so this just sucked me into this world of psychophysiology i was hooked i was like oh this is a way we can put a dashboard on this human body machine system and actually see what's going on

Yeah, so a sensor that could tell you if you're depressed, which I'm assuming you could use something like that on somebody who doesn't just have a prosthetic. Anybody could use that. What do you mean when you say depressed? Is this like sensing brain waves? some other metric that the body is producing? You know, the body is emoting so much. And I think we've become very focused on brainwaves. But your body is expressing it all the time. Every time your heart beats, it's like an update.

of what's going on with the entire system. How much did your heart contract before? How strong was the muscle pushing? What was the blood pressure of your vasculature when that happened? And from that, you can actually plot in an emotional space that's called the Russell.

circumplex model of affect. And it's a 2D affect space where you can plot if someone's happy or sad, depressed or angry. And then you can actually extend it to a three-dimensional plot where you put a motivational axis on there. So are they feeling challenged, like this is something they can take on and do? Or are they feeling threatened, like they need to shut down? So in this 3D affects phase, you can plot where someone is at.

but by just listening to the body and what it's emoting. That's incredible. So this Brussels sprouts score, is it just cardiovascular input or like the heart? and the pumping and you can get it you can get it just from from the heart wow we can give it to you but then we also look at things like electrodermal activity that's we put that on your finger right so that's looking at what's happening with the sympathetic nervous system okay um you can even put

electrodes on the face and you can put them on to the like the corrugator muscle and the zygomaticus wow and it'll sense that these muscles you can't perceive it but if they're just moving a little bit By the way, this one means you're happy. This one means that you're frustrated. Okay, so you're touching the side of the cheek for happy, tip of the forehead, like third eye area.

satisfaction you said yeah yeah that's like yeah your stress okay okay it's a corrugator muscle and which one is that is that did you say that's the electrodermal response now this is um electric emg electromyalgia so it's looking at the muscle Also contractility. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. What happened to your leg? Did it heal faster with the cast? Well, one thing, it healed faster, but it also healed a lot faster because it was a 3D printed cast that I could take on and off. Oh.

So every night it would take it off, and I had no atrophy. My recovery time was absolutely zero. Possibly a confounding variable, but either way. Yeah, exactly. Success. But I could run in it, too. So it was just so much better engineered.

Yeah. But, you know, after that, my leg healed. But, you know, my heart really hadn't. It was a very tragic event. There were a few other events in my life. Basically, every pillar of my life. My relationship collapsed. My business collapsed. Everything collapsed. And I was left with nothing. And it's just like...

What is going on? And so I decided to go back to my safe space, which is science. And I moved down to Santa Barbara where my mentor Alan is, the expert in psychophysiology. And we built a just world-class psychophysiology lab. so this is now where we could wire a person up and just really form a very clear picture of what's going on with them okay this is you know imagine 16 channels of biometrics collecting data at 2 000 data points per second you form a really good picture so

I got really good at that under his mentorship. We had the lab, but now the inventor kicked in and said, okay, okay, great. I can see where I'm at. I can see where other people are at, but now I want to modify it. I want to optimize it. I want to shift it. Yeah. How do we improve it? yeah and so for that really i see you said their shift yeah okay so we really feel like the best way to input into the human system is through its own natural senses

And we realize we live in a world where we're just hyper-visually stimulated and listening, right? We're just all on screens. So we're abusing this pathway, I would say. It's overused, overstimulated, and that's one of the major problems with modern life.

But then when you look at touch, I mean, it would be awkward as hell for me to touch your hand right now. You were just holding my hand. I'm way past that. But, you know, we evolved. Look at chimpanzees. It's 20 hours a day of touching. Go to Brazil. yeah completely different it touches how we communicate well-being to each other so here's this modality that's underutilized

Why not use that as a way to communicate into the system? And so being a rapid prototype. And I'm assuming when you say use that, it doesn't have to be. I know there's a ton of value with human touch, but just like haptic. sensation in general. Yep. Yeah. We have all these mechanisms to detect it. Okay. All these different touch sensors. Right. Maybe from a biological evolution standpoint.

The idea is that those adapted in response to human touch, but any touch could probably pull the same thing off or something similar. And as we evolved, if you want to go way back, before we had eyes and ears, we were using touch. But if you just look at the first sense that you have when you're in your mother's womb, it's all touch. It's her movement. It's her heartbeat. And this is when the baby's starting to learn to regulate.

And in fact, a baby for the first three months of its life, the fourth trimester, really relies on the primary caregiver to regulate their autonomic nervous system. They don't have a fully developed autonomic nervous system yet.

and so that's when you sue the baby you hold it and you rock it and what you're doing is you're co-regulating your autonomic nervous system to that baby so it can regulate itself you're almost like a prosthetic vagus nerve for baby that hasn't developed it yet that's it interesting okay yeah that's it so what a great modality to use yeah to communicate in and so we made some prototypes and then we had the lab

went in and wired ourselves up and they were pretty crude back in the day. There was a bunch of dials you would crank. I was thinking like a robot that comes up and just like grabs you, shakes your shoulders. Yeah, I've done that in the fast. Yeah, this was just vibrations. Okay. Like this is something that's really easy to control.

with the computer, so we knew that we'd be able to control it later. But the signal was through the roof, and then it just became a very deep research project. Thank you, COVID. You know, a lot of time in the lab where we could really focus in on this. And then it became just kind of taming the tiger.

Okay, what are the different frequencies? What is the technology? So we had to create our own technology to do this. What's the patterning? And then seeing what's happening with kind of the fundamental physiology and by extension, the psycho-emotional state of people.

And we made some really tremendous discoveries on these states that we could drive this entire system into. Yeah, I was actually down near the neck of the woods in L.A. the other day, and I was at a clinic getting an IV, and they have a massage chair.

uh where they sit in with your iv which is great and you opened or you hold the remote for the massage chair and you have rolling and kneading and percussion and heat and vibration and i think those are the biggies um you guys probably had some similar options as far as like what form of haptic sensation the nervous system responds best to

I describe what your chair does as vibrating. I don't know if that's accurate, but did you have to kind of like go through a bunch of different modalities to figure out what works best or most efficiently? Yes. So it was different modalities.

that was kind of the first phase but then it really got into creating just the right type of vibration the right amount of force the right amount of displacement and at the right frequencies and it turns out there are just frequencies that are very well suited for the human body.

you know these cavities resonate at different frequencies and you want to hit those resonances so that you're actually communicating not just at the skin level but all the way through to all the different organs because those also have these touch sensors inside of them okay so a vibration you're looking at and we talked about this a little bit in the section people will see later where you did the custom testing on me and you were identifying how my body responded to like

the amount of time in between vibrations and the intensity of vibrations. So those make sense. Like how strong is the vibration and how much time is there between it? What other aspects are there of like the nature of a vibration that you look at? besides intensity and frequency intensity frequency periodicity those are kind of the bread and butter just you know the period between the waves okay right that's happening what's the difference between frequency and periodicity

Well, they're very similar, but I'm actually using them slightly differently to try to differentiate. Let's just define frequency as the actual frequency of vibrations that you're experiencing. And then we can use periodicity as the waves that are coming in and the period of those waves. Like the amount of time in between each series of vibrations that are at a certain intensity and frequency.

And this really relates a lot to your fundamental physiology, what's happening, and everyone's different, right? And so what we were looking at is like, how can we cycle your nervous system? And what period for you is really good to be cycling? And some people could keep up with that or some people couldn't. And that's just going to be different from person to person. In the lab, we found that there were these magic periods that we could optimize to.

where largely most people fall inside of that. And so that's why we've created these pre-programmed protocols that are very effective. 50, 60? Yeah, we're at 60 now.

yeah and i noticed some are because i have them in the chair some some are for being more calm some are for focus some are for kind of amping you up you have that one called neuro boost it's like the quick kind of cup of coffee for your brain yeah um and i want to get to the way that you breathe in this thing momentarily but for people who might be like working out or driving in their car right now uh

aren't pulling up the shift wave website to see what this looks like describe what the chair actually is um in in terms of because it looks like a gravity chair with like little nodes in it yep So it's a zero gravity chair, which is just a fancy word for these chairs that recline, a recliner. But that position is very important. This is a very low stress position for the body, which is actually good for the circulation. So that is...

A very important element of it. And then embedded into it are 18 different transducers. And a transducer is what's producing mechanical vibrations that are going to the body. And they run up and down your spine and then down your legs. And then you sit down in the chair, and then there's an eye mask that you put on that is just pitch black, and then headphones that you put on. So the pitch black is important. We found in the lab that...

What we're really trying to do is cycle people between activation and deactivation, sympathetic and parasympathetic. And for parasympathetic, there's nothing better than pitch black. And if you recall... We're trying to be the antidote to too much visual stimulation, too much screen time, too many alerts. So we just want to get people out of that. And so we do that. And then there's audio that goes with it. And then the audio has a whole range. And it can be everything from music and nature.

to breathwork classes basically like guiding you through it um to sports psychology right and so a lot of our like top you know nfl players actually across all major league in sports now but we'll actually be giving them lessons in a very digestible way of very important things for their sports performance.

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I think I saw that there's a few on there, and I have these folks on the podcast, which is why it leapt out to me, that are breathwork sessions created by the team at Othership. Othership, yeah. And I've done those before, like in the sauna and that like they range from everything from like a quick pick me up to full on like holotropic, you know, go to the heavens type of breath work. And you have those just like.

basically set to match the the frequency and vibration of the chair yeah i mean i can tell you the quick story and yeah and this and what the moral of this story is other ship shift wave we're really in this to help people um and this interaction will tell you why One of my friends slash customers, he took an other ship protocol and I taught him how to program shift ways. And he adapted it and he sent it to me and I said, wow, this is amazing, but I can't use this.

this is their stuff. And he said, oh, you should talk to them. So I got in touch with them and they're like, oh, we'd love it. No, use it. We can send you some more. You can use any of our content. We're in this to help people. And we're like, oh, we just love this.

no formal partnership deal, nothing like that. Only just because we're aligned on the same mission of helping people. Right, you just have their content, but you kind of upgraded it by attaching it to the chair. And it turbocharges. Yeah. yeah i agree the first time i did it was at the uh the american academy of anti-aging medicine uh longevity fest they call it it's like the consumer electronics show of all things

anti-aging and longevity and peptides and stem cells and everything. And you guys had like a fleet of chairs there. You were probably like one of the most popular stations. So you have all these doctors and attendees like laid back with their eye masks on. I was just like, just.

fried at like three o'clock in the afternoon i'd been out at some function till midnight the night before you know slept a few hours showed up at the expo and you know i'm doing book signings and videos and i did one of the other ship sessions but i had like solidly 45-50 minutes in there and just sat up feeling like a new person i wasn't sleeping i was doing breath work and it's what i've found is interesting is sometimes i fall asleep in the chair

uh and then other times i'll just follow the vibrations the breath and even though i haven't slept it's kind of like yoga nidra or non-sleep deep rest like you set up and you feel like you've you feel like you've got the equivalent of like a power nap yeah which is kind of cool and i don't know if that's maybe you could explain this i think you guys actually call it some kind of like

sleep simulation or synthetic sleep so synthetic sleep just like matches what sleep does without you actually sleeping well you know in the lab we found these very unique states we could put people in And one of the states we found is like, wow, we can put you in the state.

where we've entrained all your physiological systems your heart rate's going up and down your vasculature is expanding contracting your lymph is moving and then we even developed a measurement for measuring cerebral spinal fluid pressure in your head And that signal would jump out. Glymphatic drainage piece. Yeah. We cannot positively, because we need to have like really sophisticated to fully confirm that we're opening up the glymphatic system and flushing it. Yeah.

But we've correlated it with three factors. One is that we see this significant increase in cerebral spinal fluid pressure in the head. This is what happens during deep sleep. Deep sleep is when the glymphatic system opens up and you flush out all the metabolic byproducts through your brain. The second thing we see are huge slow wave brain activity. So this is sub delta.

yeah so you know this is an order of magnitude lower than delta and this only pops up in deep sleep and then we also did some experiments where we think we are able to see the lymphatic drainage out that measurement's very difficult but between the slow wave

and the csf pressure fluctuations those are the two hallmarks of deep sleep and there's a lot of research around that so we've just said well we really think that this is putting you in a deep sleep-like state we call it synthetic sleep and then there's the whole anecdotal side of it

If you are unrested and you do 30 minutes of synthetic sleep, you will come out feeling like you're just going to sleep. I just did 30 minutes of meditation, which wasn't the synthetic sleep one that we did, right? It was just the... that was that was synthetic sleep oh it was okay all right well uh what time we did that at like 11 30. uh i started work at three this morning

And I feel like I got like a good seven hours of sleep. I slept like maybe five hours last night. And that was 30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's my... It's the most important use case for me personally, per shift wave. Like I travel a lot, schedules are off. I don't always get enough sleep. Or it's fragmented or it's not good. So if I wake up in the morning.

and I didn't get a good night of sleep or I wake up too early, I'll see what I need to augment. And if it was just absolutely horrid, I'll do a full hour of synthetic sleep first thing in the morning. If it wasn't great sleep, I'll do a half hour.

Yeah. But if I do that hour, I'm set for the day. Two random questions related to that. Does this, because it folds up. pretty tight the chair does does it check as regular luggage or check as oversized it checks as regular okay so i should i could take i don't travel much with it but i've been thinking about it i mean i i travel because i'm only sharing it yeah but

When I get to my hotel room, when I'm off a flight, it's the first thing I set up. Yeah. Yeah. Travel fatigue, inflammation. You ever wear gravity boots in it? Like put on like the... normal tech boots yeah yeah yeah the uh what's the other one therabodies therabodies yeah i stacked those in a gravity blanket with it or traveling with a gravity blanket is a lot but then the other thing is um

Not that anybody would ever want to do this, but you do have a loop function. Could I theoretically just like sleep all night in it if I wanted to? I'd say my wife's gone, got nothing better to do. Gonna sit in my gravity chair. We have one customer, and he swears by this. And he has it down to a science. If I can get seven hours of sleep, he goes to bed and he gets seven hours of sleep.

But if it's going to be less, if it's going to be four hours of sleep, which is pretty often for him, he'll just loop shift wave for four hours. Now, here's the crazy thing. He shows me his whoop data. When he does the four hours in shift wave. versus the seven hours natural he gets more deep sleep in that time yeah when he's in the shift wave he showed me the data i was like

Wow, okay. Interesting. This is the project that could spin out a thousand PhDs to study all this. I'm not making any claims around that. That's an N of one. If one customer does that, if he's figured out how to make it work for him. That's interesting.

The only thing I've found similar is if I know, let's say I'm going to bed. I know I'm not going to get in bed till like, because I'm traveling. 11 p.m. I've got some conference dinner. I got a flight out at 6 a.m. So I'm up at 4 a.m. If I take a mega dose of melatonin. I can feel similar to how I would on like seven hours of sleep on four hours of sleep. I think it's just doing something to the sleep cycles where you're getting more deep sleep cycles or a higher quality.

uh just just with a very like 300 milligrams of melatonin yeah and it depends what you need Right? If you need more REM or if you need more deep. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Have you had a physically demanding day? Probably need more deep. Have you had a psychologically demanding day? Yeah. Probably need more REM. And that's one of the other things. And I'll just, with like my mom, she...

She basically thought she never dreamed, which I think really means she never remembers her dreams. Yeah, never remembered, yeah. Dreamed. But, you know, my mom, she uses it 30 minutes a day. Unless she's taking a pretty big edible before she goes to bed. That's not my mom. Maybe she isn't dreaming.

And now she's remembering dreams for the first time in her life. So that's that kind of REM side of things as well. There's so many avenues to explore here. Yeah, that's interesting. When you look at it and you see the lineup of transducers, you don't think that it's as powerful as it actually.

feels when you sit in it um i remember the first time i sat in it and i because it's not that loud when you just are standing beside it and somebody's in there and it's running i mean as the camera guys did you guys hear that very loud in here in the room yeah but was it like it's not like it's not as loud as it feels because when you're in it you're like wow this feels like it's just like shaking my whole body in the room obviously there's

a dial of intensity on the on the level of the vibration but it is it is powerful i mean it's it's this is kind of a reflection on the company's whole it's it's rather unassuming it's understated it's built for function not to be this big glamorous wellness device our whole mission is make it work we are here to deliver results and that's what we're that's what we do when we let the results speak for themselves

We do a terrible job of putting out too much marketing or anything. And we try to be even more understated in what we talk to the world about. Because we see a lot of longevity for this market. This is going to do a lot of good for humanity, really.

And we want to make sure that we're not blowing this out of proportion and turning it into a hype cycle where people don't believe it and trust it. And that even comes down to the form factor. You walk up to it and it's kind of like, what's this folding lawn chair going to do? And then you come out of it and it's like. Yeah. And the most common response from people is wow. Yeah. And wow is important. And it's almost universal. And wow. I've dropped a lot of friends in on it.

And you get the wows. Yeah. Wow is an expression of being in a state of awe. You don't, and a state of awe is basically you've just experienced or seen something where you don't know how to classify it.

yeah right we're very efficient we have pigeonholes cubbies for everything right all our brain wants to be as lazy as possible just put it in the cubby but then all of a sudden something happens that you've never experienced before you don't know what it is yeah and that's a that's a state of awe and so now you need to build a new cubby system which is neuroplasticity the other part of a state of awe which is very interesting

is it's a state where you're both sympathetically and parasympathetically aroused simultaneously. And there are very few things that do that in life. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and sex is one of them. It is both a sympathetic and parasympathetic arousal. And then you can have these moments that are just like, where they're so calming and soothing, but it's so new and fresh that you're engaged.

And so we are both driving sympathetic and parasympathetic. And then we're actually cycling between them. And this is how we're building in nervous system strength, nervous system flexibility. But by the end of it, you're...

aroused in both states yeah which is just a lovely state to be in yeah so so during the lawn chair wow state there is a um a fingertip sensor that you kind of have the option of putting on what's that doing so it's a pulse oximeter okay so it's measuring your pulse it's also measuring your spo2 so your blood oxygen level and then it's also going to give you a heart rate variability score um so now it's not just does it do heart rate too

Does heart rate. Okay. Obviously, we just heart rate variability. So heart rate variability. Heart rate. Sox symmetry. Heart rate. And what was the last one? Yeah, heart rate, heart rate variability, and blood oxygen level. Blood oxygen level, okay, yeah. Yeah, that's SPO2, right? SPO2. Okay. And now, we just launched last week the ShiftWave Pro, which is now with an iPad.

And now the iPad has a mini lab on it. We have a video of that at the end of the show if people want to see it. It's pretty cool. Yeah, you're one of the first to get to really see this and explore it. And now with that, you can see what's actually... So here's what we want to do. We developed all this in the lab.

It's amazing what you see in the lab, and it's amazing what we can do there. Now we want to start to bring the lab to the people, right? And so now you can start to see what's happening. You can get these very relevant data scores. And then you can see actually start tracking this over time. Yeah. It's not on the iPad. We actually built a companion app for you.

And the notion being is the iPad's always with the machine or maybe it's at your gym or wherever. You don't want that on there. And you just want to do your data later or you're in bed that night or whatever. Whatever happened, you can see what you did. And then we've also, the biggest challenge we found is... You know that this machine can do amazing things, but it really relies on you to know which protocol to pick when and for what.

And that's actually a lot harder than it sounds. And so with the new app, we've built in an AI agent. where you can literally say uh i've got a headache i got three hours of sleep and i have a really important meeting in 20 minutes what protocol should i do yeah and it'll give you multiple recommendations of protocols and it'll tell you

which ones and why you should be doing it. Also give you a little bit of what's going on with you right now so you can understand it. And now you can like, okay, get that protocol, pick it, use it, have a great meeting. That is so cool.

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flavor or share with a friend when you wear the what do you call the sensor bio drive yeah so it's a it's a pulse oximeter and then the mode is bio drive okay so when you wear the finger thingy in bio drive is it um adjusting the actual vibrations based on the data that is getting from my finger? Or is that just like interesting stuff for me to look at later on? It's adjusting in real time. So it's like two way. Yeah.

And this is, and I'll explain it in very simple terms, and we've patented it, which is also great because now we can really expose what's happening to the world with this, is that it is measuring your heart rate. Okay.

And there's something known as respiratory sinus arrhythmia, which is your heart rate goes up as you're breathing in and as you're breathing out, your heart rate's going down. And if your heart and respiration are synced up, this is what is often called a very coherent state. Okay. And being in coherence is a very good state to be in. We drive you into that state by taking your heart rate, feeding it to you as the vibrations, and then you're breathing with it.

And so now the vibrations and your respiration are working together to drive your heart rate up. And then as the vibrations drop down, it starts to drop down. You breathe out. So am I following the vibrations or are the vibrations following me? Both. Okay. So you should be following with it, but you're also driving it. Okay. So all these systems are now working together. Yeah.

yeah so as soon as you start to feel that little bit of vibration you breathe in that'll emphasize now your heart rate's going to start to go up and the vibrations can be triggering it and start pushing it what if somebody just like freaks out and starts doing like wim hof style breath work will the chair start to

Try to vibrate to keep up. It won't match your respiration. It'll match your heart rate. Oh, yeah. So what will happen at first if you do Wim Hof with it is, you know, when you're doing the hyperventilation, you're increasing your heart rate. Yeah. And so it'll drive it and intensify it. And by the way, this is actually a great thing to do because the vibrations through the studies of whole body vibration are releasing more nitric oxide.

And nitric oxide does a lot of things, relaxes the vasculature. But there's recent research that shows that it's not just carbon dioxide and oxygen that hemoglobin is working with. It's also nitric oxide. And so you want to third that. putting that third gas in there really helps. And I can tell you why we actually have a Wim Hof and he

Huge influence on me. Long ago, I met him in a very intimate environment and did his class. I'm like, this is incredible. And I was like, wow. And so I've programmed that in. And it's amazing. I can take someone that's never done. any hypoxic breath work, and they will do shift wave. And they will, by their third time, be able to hold their breath for three minutes. From doing like a particular session on shift wave? It's a Wim Hof. It's a Wim Hof, two-mo style.

session is that like a hidden one or is that program called vitality and immunity oh That's what that is? Yeah. So when it like vibrates and releases and vibrates and releases, that's what that's doing. That's the hyperventilation. Because I thought it was like, I'm like, gosh, this seems a little bit like Wim Hof. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, that's interesting. I'm going to have to try that one again, now knowing that background. That's interesting. And there's another one, Total Vitality. Interesting and cool because Wim Hof and several of his students showed some pretty remarkable immune enhancement.

to response to E. coli toxin by doing that breath work. I mean, I travel a lot. Whenever I get that little tickle in my throat, I'm straight into vitality, immunity.

and reliably knocks it out okay good to know so that's the one to do and there's another one now total vitality yeah which is the basically it's wim hof followed by 10 minutes of synthetic sleep the um weighted blanket we had that going on um i talked about the uh boots that sometimes wear you know those cover up a little bit of the transducers for the lower legs kind of feels good to have the recovery boots on anything else that you have stacked

with it or that people have successfully reported stacking with the shift with? Yeah, a lot of things. I'm just on the boots. Yeah. It's interesting because the Shift Wave, we started seeing amazing results around recovery. It started with an NFL player during training camp. He got one. They had one of their most grueling days. He did an hour shift wave that night.

He showed up at trading camp the next day. Everyone is just like complaining. He's like, I don't know what you guys are talking about. I feel great. yeah and so we actually dove into this and we've studied with a couple um major sports research labs and then also in our lab so that sensor you had in your forehead yeah i put that on my hamstring and that measures uh total blood volume

And what I found is when I was doing synthetic sleep, that there was five and a half times more blood moving in and out of my hamstring muscle. And so, and it's doing it through its own natural. So I'm not in need to wear those. I think all things are great, and I encourage people to use all the tools. But one of the things is that the compression boots, they work through a different effect. What they do is it's...

Blood occlusion. Occlusion. Thank you. So blood occlusion. So it's like pushing it all out and then it rushes in at the end. Right. And what this is doing is it's like this is more like breathing. So the capillaries are all opening up and moving.

probably strengthening those mechanisms and happening. But I wouldn't want to occlude the blood while you're trying to do that. You might want to just do those in sequence. And I think... shift wave really stacks well in sequence with a lot of things right um and things you might not think of like therapy yeah we have a lot of therapists that are using this

Because someone comes in and they're in a heightened emotional state, it's really hard to have a conversation and get any place deeper. Yeah. So if they can fully regulate their nervous system, now they're having a real conversation right away. Yeah, get them into the lawn chair while staying. Physical therapist, same thing. Massage therapist. The massage therapist for the world champion NBA team.

She swears by it. She puts them in first. Tissue tone is completely different. She just is able to get in and do the deep work because little massage therapists, half of what they're trying to do is get you to relax your nervous system. So this kind of sequencing has been really important, you know, and we've also seen it, you know, we do a lot of work in Ukraine, right? So if anyone's in a heightened stress state or experienced extreme trauma.

being able to downregulate them, and now they can go into other modalities with it. You know, the one I'm excited, I haven't really fully tested it yet, but... You know, the guys, and we have no affiliation with them, whatever, but I just tried it. It was using the Higher Dose House, this red light blanket. Oh, yeah.

And the thing about that is it just goes right over your – it's like wearing a weighted blanket and shift wave is amazing, right? Yeah. So this is like a weighted blanket that's doing red light therapy on you. That's pretty cool. It's weighted too, huh? yeah it's it's it's heavy so i i think that yeah yeah i also have found uh any of the so-called adaptogens like rhodiola ashwagandha um uh even like shilajit like any of these things that kind of helped it

tune up the nervous system about a half hour before, because a lot of times I'm in that thing around like 2.30, right? So I'll finish up lunch, take something around two, and I'm in there in about 30 minutes. And those seem to enhance the effects.

Absolutely. And I got to give you some thanks. I just recalled this. I was a scientist getting into this world from a very scientific. And then all of a sudden I realized, I'm like, oh, I guess I'm kind of like a biohacker now. Yeah. I better learn about what biohacking is. And so I went and got your book Boundless. Oh, no way. And it became like my like, you know, oh, this is biohacking book.

But the section on all the different supplementation, you should have seen the shop where we're building ShiftWave. I mean, I had everything in your book. That's funny. And I was testing it with ShiftWave. And I'll tell you like that polysaccharis ant, the black ant. Yeah, black ant extract. Wow, that gets you going. Lost Empire Herbs. I haven't had it in a while, but yeah. Yeah.

And so sometimes it was good because they'd get me so amped up, I could see if ShiftWave springs down. But I'll tell you the one with ShiftWave that we got into this competition, my co-founder and I, of how slow we could keep... respiratory heart rate coherence. So how slow can you bring your breathing pattern down and have the heart still be coherent? And we're both pretty competitive people. And what we found is that we had to start supplementing.

To be able to drop it down slower. And one of the ones that helped the most was ashwagandha. Because it just relaxes the whole vasculature and just allows you to slow down. And we were able to get down to like 1.8.

You know, breasts per minute and stay coherent by doing that. Wow. You guys have done a lot of studies. You could probably just talk for another hour about all the different studies you've done. Been to your website. You've done stuff on performance. You mentioned some recovery, lymph flow. What is, do you think, the most cool or surprising thing you've found from any of the studies you've done to date? Or even something that was just like shocking or interesting? Yeah, the synthetic sleep.

It definitely was very shocking just to be able to put a person into this state. Just imagine if you have 10 channels of data coming in. It just looks kind of like... Garbled, you know? And then now you start to just drive it and they all just align into these. perfect sinusoidal waves where they're all lined up and just the amplitudes are just going through the roof. Just to see that in the data in front of you is like, wow, this is a completely different state.

for the human body and mind and in my opinion it's like oh wow this is our natural operating state yeah and i see where you live out here and i understand why modern life is just driven us out of that state so hard. I mean, every camera, every little alert, every message, I don't think people realize that. It's just pinging your nervous system. So if you're trying to regulate it, it's just like, just hitting you.

Hitting you, hitting you, hitting you. And then it's just stacking throughout the day. And then... God forbid you get something that's actually really stressful on top of that. And we were in this just such a fragile state. We should be in this state. Then go sleep in your EMF infused bedroom. Oh my God, right? Your nervous system is still a little bit. And then you don't get good sleep. And then.

You wake up and you're already dysregulated. We should just be this cycling thing. We are a cycling being. We are on a cycling planet. I saw the leaves changing the fall here. Workout recover. Yeah. And the, and these cycles, they permeate throughout us, you know, and it's, you know, we're on an annual cycle, you know, there's a monthly cycle. We obviously have our daily diurnal cycle that we're on, right? Cortisol spikes and all that.

But then you start to look at it, you know, our gut has a cycle. You know, our gut's cycling about three times a minute. So that's what we're cycling. And there's the peristalsis of that. Our heart is a cycle, right? It's cycling about, you know, 60 times a minute. And then brain waves are all on a cycle. That's what the frequency of brain waves is, just how fast they're cycling. And so we're just a cycling being. And so just being able to re-instill that into you at a very fundamental level.

across all your systems is a way to bring you back into this internal harmony. It's like actually being in a flow state where everything is flowing and working together. Yeah, yeah. I think it's going to be pretty cool for people to see.

me with all the weird things and sticky wires and electrodes you had attached to me and what happened. Keep watching you guys because you're going to get to see like how much the heart rate and heart rate variability and all the parameters related to the nervous system respond to this thing. So if you're listening right now, you can also access the video at bengreenfieldlife.com.

shift wave podcast um i do have like deals and discounts on this thing too that i'll put in there and mike and i even have a special message for you at the end you want to stay tuned for so mike this is super cool i've always kind of wanted to meet like

the mind behind this chair because i've been using it for like i think a year and a half now um so thank you for making it and it's just the coolest lawn chair ever so uh i appreciate you man thanks ben and you know i read your book boy gosh man it was eight years ago

So that has been infused into the work that I've been doing. And you listen to my voice every day. And I know we just met in person, but I feel like we've known each other. I listen to your voice not because I'm stalking you. If people miss that, he's actually the voice of some of the protocols in ShiftWave. So some have voices, some don't.

have voices, there's a high likelihood you're going to come across Mike. So there you go. Thanks, Marcel. Thank you, man. Cool. We've just brought a research-grade psychophysiology lab here. Sick.

so this is going to measure all sorts of different biometrics off your body so we're going to be looking at first the vibrations of the chair so we can map that to what it's doing to you yeah you can be looking at your electrodermal activity which is a measurement of your sympathetic activation so get a good look at what's happening with your nervous system okay look at your respiration obviously that's important looking at

Your ECG, we can see your heart rate with that. We're going to do a very special one where we look at the blood flow in your brain. So we'll be able to see that cycle. That's pretty cool. uh with that wow yeah and and a few other metrics that i'll go through when we're collecting them all so first of all we just got to get you wired up yeah we're gonna put a lead 2 ecg on you so okay

You know what this is. Yeah, but I remember where every lead goes. I'll let you be in charge. Just the lead. There's lead one, which measures across the top vector of the heart. And the lead two measures across... this vector of the heart. So we're just gonna have a ground down here and then the one that's major up there. Cool. And then we'll put one more up here somewhere. Top. Okay. Yeah. And then we'll put these on your fingers. So, electrodermal activity.

It's a measurement of the change in the electrical potential impedance in your fingertips. Okay. You can also do it on your palms. Yeah. And so, let's see, let me sit on that side. Let's do it here. So when you're preparing for activity, the body senses that and it opens up your sweat glands because you're going to perspire. Okay. And when those open up, it lets out this ionic fluid. Yeah.

And when that comes out, we can measure the change in impedance. It's a very sensitive measurement of your sympathetic nervous system turning on. Yeah. That's so interesting. If you had asked me like three days ago, I wouldn't have known that sweat onset was helpful for tracking something like sympathetic arousal. It makes sense. And then I was just randomly at a lab down in Malibu a few days ago, and they did.

Not not using this technology, something a little different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Tight, but not too tight. Cool. So obviously your chest expands. There's a sense in here. Yeah. It's a respiratory effort. Yeah. Okay. All right. Now you can unseat. Okay. still cold we could have measured your sympathetic arousal Japanese toilet seat there's an idea for you vibration warmers

You know, they do warm up, as you know. Yeah, they do. Yeah. One of our friends at a big sports research group, who I won't mention his name, but he insists that you... You've got to use shift wave naked. Hmm. Hopefully he's got a good disinfection bottle wherever. Yeah. Well, he says he gets more, senses it more into his skin that way. But he does.

It's my list of things to try. My co-founder in this, he started this company in the 1980s. And they're used across virtually every research university in the world. Wow. And so... The Biopac thing is? Yeah, the Biopac. And so... we said hey we want to be able to measure the amount of blood yeah and in the brain and he said oh i could make a sensor for that and so this is

It's going to become a product now, what you're putting on, but this is the first prototype. Wow. Amazing. And I won't go into the technicalities of it, but it's a fairly complicated thing to do. Cool. Just vanilla. My only request is we add some wires. I think we need more wires. More wires. You know, it's funny when we made shift waves because I was doing all this in the lab.

and there's a few wires to shift it but just a couple yeah and so then people are like there's too many wires i'm like no idea what it took to develop this and you know i think we're doing something like eight channels here in the lab i would get so i would have 16 channels wired up wow but i would wire myself up yeah and then do the experiment yeah which is an added level of difficulty

And of course, this is probably the most important one. This isn't going into the lab. This is going into the chair. So the chair is going to be driving you in the bio drive mode here. And we have a new algorithm. So this is the new Shift Wave Pro. Yeah, that's sick, the iPad. What's the iPad? Have you seen this? No. Now you can select your different protocols here. That's awesome. You know, so they're broken up. You can have your favorites. So you can just go straight to the ones that you love.

Is it connected to the chair, the iPad somehow? Yeah. So this is now controlling the chair. How? So that control box is gone. Oh, how's it connected though? So there's two ways to connect it. There's a little module that plugs into the back. It talks Bluetooth to this. And if you don't want Bluetooth, you can just put a wire in to connect the two of them together. That's sick. Just, you know.

Some people love Bluetooth, some people won't have it. And then you have all the protocols. We update them automatically. So then you have access to it. The other one you updated just by updating the USB drive, right? Yeah, it was like old school DJ style. So now we can just load them up to you. And then the way we've moved on with Biodrive is we realized the...

we need to make Biodrive specific protocols. And so now at the bottom, there's a Biodrive. There's some that feel like they don't need Biodrive. It doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't work. Yeah. And you want to like ease someone into Biodrive. And so we've made this whole series now. So today we're going to do SS Meditate. Okay. And by the way, this is not even the released version you're seeing. This is the founder's dev version. Oh, yeah.

of the app cool cool new feature we're playing with is putting a pre-session survey in yeah so you can start to do a stress survey before and after with it and then of course you got the mini lab here and so now we're taking what we've done here and we're starting to integrate it into the ipad so now you can see your pulse you can see your heart rate going up and down yeah after five minutes using five minutes as you know to get an hrv score you'll get your hrv

100% SpO2, of course. Good job. But then you'll be able to monitor all of that. And then at the end, you get scores. And we have a companion app. Where it pops up on the companion app. Yeah. So this just kind of like runs the machine. Right. And then you have your own personal app. Like on my phone.

yeah what what programs have you done and then they'll show you all your data and you can track it there so i could even track like which programs seem to have the highest impact on hrv or 100 yeah i'll do it every time i do ride the tiger through the roof i'll do more right tiger And then also has an AI agent in it, which is, I'm sure you've noticed the first time you got your shift wave. Yeah. It works great if you know which protocol to select. Yeah.

And so now I was an AI agent. It's like, I've got a headache. I didn't sleep well. I've got a meeting in 10 minutes. What protocol should I do? And then it'll tell you what to do. You found everything. Yeah. Cool. let me just attach this last one okay for the vibrations i do have uh oh you'd never mind you have one there i was gonna say if i eat an eye mask there's one here you've got the

Well, it'll be good to get your feedback. We're at kind of a, we're at a debate point of this eye mask or the old one that we had. Oh. So, yeah. I mean, I'm not like an eye mask aficionado. That looks good though. We'll try it. We'll try it out. All right. It's not bad. Blocks light. Hopefully it doesn't mess up your hair.

You know the guys that are most sensitive about their hair? Like what sector of guys? Yeah. Well, I don't know. Probably not firefighters or construction workers or people who wear helmets for a living. But besides that, I have no clue. Navy Seals. That's kind of weird. Stuff isn't supposed to get to Navy Seals. No, they just have perfect hair somehow. Weird.

So let me just make sure all the biometrics are going here. And of course, I'll show you all this data at the end. I'm assuming you guys have used a weighted blanket before. Oh yeah. It's the best because you get that extra pressure against the nodules. That's what I'm talking about. Just another day at the office. I'm just going to put headphones on so you can just drop into a deeper state.

What do you think of these? Also testing new headphones. A little wider. Yeah, you know, they've gone to on-ear so that they don't touch the cushion. Yeah.

so you don't get the vibration. Cool. All right, so this is SS Meditate. In the beginning, you can just relax, and then as the waves slow down, then you're going to start breathing. okay and as the vibrations increase and breathe out as the vibrations decrease you can see this is the vibrations going up and down and this is his heart rate starting to entrain with the vibrations so as we go we're going to look for these two to synchronize

Vibrations up, heart rate up. And you can see that he's just dropping in right away. That's how nicely in sync those are. And so this is entrainment across physiological systems. So he's breathing with the vibrations, so he's breathing in and out. And now it's dropping into the bio drive mode. So now it's going to be him driving it.

They're starting to figure each other out. The algorithm's trying to find where he's at and he's trying to find where it's at so that they can become coherent together. it's really meant to be when you're awake and breathing with it so it's doing an amazingly good job for someone that's asleep yeah this is his breathing so he's just gonna super shallow, fast breath. I'm tempted to switch over to the more powerful algorithm.

So he's asleep and you really need to actively breathe with it to engage the system. Somehow it's still doing a pretty good job. But I have a more sophisticated system on my laptop that I could use for this situation. We might switch over to it. Cozy in there. this is pretty cozy yeah oh great that's why i don't travel with these things yeah someone needs to make one you could just fill with a little water

how'd it do you did great good good news that i got enough data good bad news there must have been a solar flare or something all of a sudden this didn't want to talk to the computer after a little while weird Yeah. This is annoying. Yeah. But we did, I did get a chance to switch over too. This is pretty tight. It's interesting. Yeah, it feels pretty stiff.

I wasn't sure if you were a non-responder on the EDA. Really? And then I pinched your fingers and you responded. It just looks like you just get super relaxed in this. Anything that involves switching off the nervous system, I can do really well. I can check out in the middle of the day pretty easily if I need to. Most people, this is like driving them up and down. You, you were just like, going to your happy place. Yeah. The chair helps with that.

Yeah. You've acclimated to it. Yeah. All right. Cool. Maybe the cool thing we saw is that this is your heart rate. Yeah. Before. And then once we turn on shift wave, you just see what happens. So the more this is, is the more heart rate variability. Yeah. So it just really just started driving your heart rate up and down. Yeah.

so just greatly increasing your your heart rate variability man see you catch that on the camera just how intense that shift is you can see where it's just like tightly packed hrv then all of a sudden the variability just goes way up yeah that's pretty cool and this is your electrodermal activity that's why i was like he's just dropping that's when i pinched your finger oh no no he's a lot and then you're like oh yeah i'm going back to chilling out

And then I did switch over to this other algorithm here where I got a little bit of data there. So finding these sweet spots where you're just nicely cycling like that. so yeah you know i come in and i zoom in on that it's like okay what is this what is this rate here where you just seem to be really happy

And then you can start to look at the... And so this is where the customization aspect comes in. You're able to see, I'm assuming, something like the style of the vibration or something like that. and know like what my body responds best to. Yeah, like we all have kind of a sweet spot for where we want to be cycling our nervous system. So sympathetic, parasympathetic heart rate up and down and then other systems of the body entrained to that.

And so that's why we've built Biodrive into this. And so it automatically is adapting to it. So this is when Biodrive was on. It starts to find that pattern and to see how really sweet it gets right in there. Yeah. like okay and especially you compare that to how you were before so when you isolate that right there what is it that you are looking at in conjunction with that isolation like what aspects of the shift wave system

Yeah, the intensity, the periodicity, like the patterning of it, the periodicity. Okay. I can also look at how quickly your heart's kind of engaging and disengaging. See how it drops off very rapidly here? Right. So that's great. That means that your parasympathetic system is able to engage pretty quickly. And some people just tapers if they don't get that strong parasympathetic engagement. And the ultimate goal here, I guess, for the people watching, because, you know, we...

We kind of jumped right in, but the idea is that if you haven't already heard on the podcast, everybody's nervous system is different, and this would give you a way to customize the chair to your nervous system based on what your nervous system responds best to. So it's basically like a custom program. Yeah, exactly. In the lab, you know, we've done thousands of experiments. Yeah. And we saw, wow, a lot of people, they kind of hone to the similar space, but it's a bell curve.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then there's outliers, but there's, there's about, you know, 10, 20% of optimization left. And so, and it also, it's not just different per person. It's different per person. per time of day, per season, per what's stress level. So you're going to just vary. And so just we said, you know, let's take what we do in the lab and let's embed it in this, give it the intelligence.

so now you can sit down and it's going to optimize for you in that moment oh that's even cooler wow wow and then it's just it's infinitely extensible at that point you know it's not the same program every time right you're getting something new so so i guess the way i thought about it when you told me you could do a custom program is it would just be like whatever kind of like you have a ride the tiger you have ben greenfield

Oh, we're going to do that too. But what you're saying is like, but like even that one program can dynamically adapt to where I'm at at any given moment if I'm wearing the bio drive sensor. Exactly. And that's pretty cool. Your custom protocol might be, hey, I need something just to shake all the stress out of my, I just got back from LA. I just need to purge, shake that all out of me. And then I want to drop into a deeper generation state.

And then I want to go into bio drive where I know it's, it's optimizing for me right now in this moment, which also has an element of meditation to it because you got to pay attention. And if your mind starts wandering, you might lose it. Yeah. And then you say, but then I got to work after this. So I want to drop out of bio drive and then I want to wake up growing into like go time, activate my sympathetic nervous system. So I'm super alert for whatever I'm about to. Yeah.

yeah and you guys have preset programs like that too i've noticed where yeah you kind of like start drop in get relaxed and then get charged up so you're Back to the office afterwards. Yeah, exactly. We've got 60 different protocols that do all sorts of different things. There's NeuroBoost, which is that nine minute.

i got a meeting in 10 minutes i gotta be on it yeah deeper generation ones and now we can start to integrate biodrive into the protocols as well so we can make you a custom one with that fully integrated oh that's cool That's cool. I think that's probably what we'll do. And then it's also, what do you want to be focusing on thinking about? So I've done ones for NFL quarterbacks. It integrates sports psychology into it.

but in a medium that they enjoy yeah almost like visualization visualization through a rap song yeah you know so it's like the medium where they are yeah giving what they need to be hearing and then at the same time totally regulating their system for what they're about to go do yeah Yeah. Wow. Cool. Yeah. Awesome. What kind of music do you want? Well, it depends on what the goal would be. I am more of, I would say, for the purposes like this.

more of like a Hans Zimmer epic movie soundtrack, you know, no lyrics kind of guy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We can do that. We have an incredible audio engineer. It's produced music for all sorts of TV series.

yeah there's someone that has a she has two phds one in haptics and in music composition and then we have a psychologist on our team and so this is our content team yeah obviously it depends you know that you know whether it's you know deep relaxation is just like pretty passive stuff yeah you know pick you up focus get back to work that's where yeah that's where i'll tend to go a little bit more kind of like no lyrics dubsteppy you know type of stuff okay

Yeah. So we could do Hans Zimmer into some dubstep-y stuff. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There we go. I like a good challenge. But that's the thing. Pull that off. Get out so new. Yeah, it'll be cool. People will be like, oh, wow, I want to try that. That's not been done before. Yeah, exactly. That's why it's called custom. Then they did a little quick plot of just your HRV so we can start to look at that.

that's right hrv shot up yeah it went up big time yeah show that on the camera if you guys can get a shot of that like how much the hrv went up just in i mean that was another 30 minutes yeah it's a significant increase yeah dropped you And your HRV was great to begin with. This is it. It's just exercising your autonomic nervous system. So it's a strengthening program and it's also building flexibility.

And I think this is something that's really important is you want to be able to turn on and then turn off so you can recharge and regroup and think clearly, but then be able to go again. Right.

So before Mike takes off here, we decided that one cool thing that we want to do for any of you who decide you want to get a shift wave chair to use for yourself is he and I are going to arrange doing a webinar. where we answer your questions and we hear your feedback and we get a chance to meet and greet you. And so what will happen is if you get a shift wave, it'll be in anywhere from eight to 12 weeks after you get it.

uh you will get contacted by mike and me and the team from shift wave and we'll tell you when and where to go so we're going to throw that bonus in for you go to bengreenfieldlife.com shift wave podcast you can Find the link to get one and there's nothing else to do. You'll automatically kind of be in and you'll find out when the webinar is going to happen.

Yeah, exactly. We want to help people get the most out of this. And once you have it, you're going to have a lot of questions. And this is also a way to learn from your community what else other people are doing and how they're using it so you can get the most out of it because it really is life changing. once you fully discover the power of ShiftWave. Show notes are going to be a bengreenfieldlife.com slash ShiftWave podcast.

uh all the things that mike and i talk about so you can see pictures you see videos um i get a juicy deal juicy discount for you guys through shift wave so that'll all be over there as well ben greenfieldlife.com shift wave podcast To discover even more tips, tricks, hacks and content to become the most complete, boundless version of you, visit bengreenfieldlife.com.

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