On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast cognitive.
Function impairing awareness and pairing decision making their rate of recovery, how fast it took them to get back to probably 80% of their base, who also.
Is able to withstand rigors of hypoxia, rigors of cold, rigors of heat, and rigors of unstable objects. You're going to operate as a more impactful human being, right?
The more willing I am to extend myself into the unknown or the levels of discomfort, because I'm developing kind of an internal power or confidence.
Help. Performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show. This podcast is brought to you by gold, not the precious metal currency that our US dollar is no longer tied to, but instead gold, the delicious superfood tea made by organic. Why they call it gold? Because it's got turmeric in it. But not just turmeric, which is obviously an amazing ancient fruit.
It's been used for 4000 years to promote a healthy response to occasional aches and pains, but it's a really good antioxidants and antiviral boosts immunity. But they also put it into this gold stuff ginger, which is also great for your immune system and tastes pretty good and is good for digestion. And they put reishi mushroom that's known as the queen of mushrooms. That's been used in China and Japan to support wellness for over like 2000 years.
And they claim it's the secret to youth and longevity. So you'll look like Benjamin Button when you drink this stuff. It's got lemon balm in it. And lemon balm is the name given to an herb first mentioned in Homer's epic poem The Odyssey, and that's been used to calm and relax the body for thousands of years across a whole lot of cultures, uh, usually taken at night to help with relaxation and to wake up feeling amazing. It's got turkey tail mushroom in it. Also wonderful for your
immune system. You could imagine if you drink this stuff like at night after dinner, maybe rather than reaching for the Ben and Jerry's it tastes absolutely delicious. It tastes like a golden milk latte, but it's USDA organic certified, gluten free, glyphosate residue free, dairy free, soy free, vegan, non-GMO, and it's 100% organic whole food ingredients. It's really good. It's 20% off for you, too. If you go to
organic Combin. That's organic with an AI combin, that'll get you 20% off the organic gold juice or any other of the fine, fine juice powders with no chopping, shaping, blending. Clean up anything from organic organic combin to get 20% off. This podcast is also brought to you, speaking of gold by something else that has a component of turmeric in it.
Tomorrow's sacred. In this case, you can take turmeric and you can basically through magical wizardry, get the water soluble components that actually support things like nagging injuries or joint discomfort. And then what we did at Kion was we combined it with a whole bunch of other little superfoods and blends that have cumin clinical research behind them, all natural ingredients that you can't find together in any other supplement on the market for beating back soreness and joint discomfort.
You pop this stuff on an empty stomach at night after a tough day of workouts, or when you're injured or beat up. And it is like gangbusters in terms of the way it works for your joints and your muscles. And I don't even know what gangbusters means. But all I know is it works. So you go to get Kian combo, Ben Greenfield, and this stuff's called Kian Flex. It's an all natural joint health formula that me and the team at Kian designed to reduce joint discomfort, soreness
and swelling, uh, from exercise. And so if you like to lift weights and work out and beat yourself up, just pop these. At the end of the day, throw your ibuprofen in the trash can, switch to Kian Flex instead, go to get Kian combo Greenfield. Let's get Kian combo Ben Greenfield I'll get you a special discount on your
first time purchase. Uh, this is a staple in my supplements pantry and it's going to be yours too, because once you try it and you experience the difference in the way you feel when you wake up after a tough day working out versus not taking it, you are totally going to be on board. So get Kian combo
Ben Greenfield. All right, folks, occasionally, as you know, I like to interview badasses on my show folks who are doing some pretty cool things in the realm of human performance and in this case, also, uh, human, human, uh,
behavior in high stress environments. Uh, my guest on today's show is a guy who helped to develop the, uh, the the equipment out in my garage that I have a love hate relationship with these sandbags, uh, which I use and which my sons, when I have them at training, drag up and down the driveway, you know, chock full of sand. They're like these kettlebell shaped bags and overhead bags and all this, this crazy stuff made by a
company called, uh, Brute Force. And Jeff Bannon is my guest on today's show, by the way, Jeff, do you pronounce your last name Bannon or Bondman or bonbon?
Van, man.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
It's not just straight, man. Matt. Easy.
Fancy French or something. If we wanted to bondman, uh, any. Anyways, uh, Jeff has over 30 years of experience across a lot of stuff like the fire service, the US Army Special Operations Command, the Central Intelligence Agency. Uh, for those of you unfamiliar with that, it's also called the CIA. Uh, Jeff serves as as the COO, like I mentioned, and the chief human performance officer for this fitness brand called
Brute Force. So he's got he's got experience conducting counterterrorism operations in like, 23 different countries and different combat zones and a whole bunch of other high threat or, uh,
or what are called non permissive environments. And, uh, he has had the privilege of dissecting human behavior at a pretty intense level in those pretty intense situations, and has even studied up on things like the minute shifts and heart rate variability that occur in a stressful scenario, and how the central nervous system can be managed under periods of significant stress. And so, um, not only does he really know his way around physical performance, but also around
mental performance. And because I'm a fan of grit and of developing humans who are resilient and not only resilient, but in the way I'm educating my own sons, free thinking and independent and able to survive in unpredictable scenarios, which I think is a very handy skill for a human being to have these days. As a matter of fact, I think two two skills that every young human should learn is how to operate, uh, without producing large amounts
of stress in high stress scenarios. And then secondarily, I think that a young human should be able to filter information and digest information through a specific filter or lens. Because we live in an information era where you just got to be able to do that. So, uh, regarding the latter, I'm not sure Jeff and I are going to talk too much about that, but the former. Absolutely. So, Jeff, welcome to the show.
Hey, Ben, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Look forward to.
Today. Yeah. It's gonna be fun. So so I mean, like, I, you know, I always wonder when I talk to guys like you who are just, like, so deep in the trenches, uh, especially in, in, in these high stress scenarios and in many cases, you know, working with the armed forces and the CIA and working as a firefighter, is this something that you have always been into? Because people ask me that and I'm like, no, I grew up like reading
The Lion, the witch and the wardrobe and programming computers. So. So when did you grow up as somebody who's just into all this stuff?
Yeah. You know, actually, it's funny, I did I mean, I, my mother tells a story like when I was, you know, 4 or 5, whenever I could change my own clothes, whenever that age hit, like if I was playing army, I had to have my brown corduroys on. Or if I was playing fireman, I had to have my blue corduroys on. Like I was very distinct, like in character from a very young age. And, you know, I will say on that side of the equation, I've kind of gotten to live out all my childhood dreams, and I
don't really know where those came from. That's not a family thing. Um, that's just who I kind of showed up to this planet debate.
Yeah, yeah. Well, um, you know, I'm curious, you know, with that childhood where you actually kind of cross the threshold into beginning to work with some of these high performance communities. Can you walk me through what? How you got plugged in, so to speak?
Yeah, man. You know, I gave a keynote a couple of years ago to one of the firehouse conferences, and I kind of in it. I just jumped in and kind of said, you know, my life when I look back, beautifully orchestrated, completely unplanned, um, you know, I was I was.
As I say, God's God draws straight with crooked lines.
Absolutely. Right. So, I mean, I was a 16 year old kid working at Domino's, uh, slapping pizzas and doing my thing. And, um, one of the drivers one day came by like a Saturday or something comes in the comes in the store and he's like, hey, man, come here and check this out. Like what? We walk outside, he pops his trunk and he's got fireman gear in his trunk, like, where'd you get that? He's like, I joined the firehouse down the street. I was like, what?
He goes, yeah, you can do that. Next day I hopped in the car. I was like, oh, let's go check this out next day. Hop in the car. Drive down the firehouse. You know, 16 year old kid's stupid haircut. Hey, I want to be a fireman. Uh, and, uh, fill out the application. Because in the Northern Virginia area at that time, you know, big volunteer system, uh, big structure
departments and and a lot of opportunity to do that. So. And then back then they've changed the law now, but back at 16, you could join and ride, you know, straight up and do everything. So it went pretty quick. I mean, I filled out the paperwork, got voted into the department, was in fire school like a week later, and off I went. Um, and, you know, I wasn't a big fan of high school. Uh, it just wasn't my gig was my thing. Uh, my senior year, I only take two classes to graduate. So I was the
county's first intern. Uh, petitioned them to do an internship with them so I could get out of school early. Uh, and then got hired, like, 32 days after I graduated as the 14th career fireman hired in Loudoun County, Virginia, which they're now, like a department of 800 plus people. Um, so so, yeah, it was, uh, it was an it's been an interesting stage. And then get board, meet a recruiter a couple of years in, kind of feeling like, hey, am I going to be stuck being a fireman, you know,
and doing this stuff? And, you know, not in the best shape, not super healthy. Kind of could see the writing on the wall that if I stayed at that time and the fire service, health and fitness wasn't really a key thing, wasn't a big driver and, uh, met this freaking recruiter who had just come out of Ranger Battalion and thought, hey, that sounds like a cool idea. Let's go get pushed to limit physically. Um, so join
the Army. Went in, spend my time, uh, to Kosovo 99 for the first guys on the ground there, and then got out shortly after, uh, was back in the fire service, actually on duty the night of September 10th, having coffee the morning of September 11th, and then spent kind of the next four days in response down to the Pentagon. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, just because of the work I'd done and the unique things that I had, skill sets that I developed over time was
doing some projects with some people. Guys from the agency were there. They were like, hey, what are you doing? I said this, they said, you want to come to work for us? I said, sure, and six months later I was in Africa working my first counter-terrorism operation. So it's kind of been a wild ride.
Wow. So, so in terms of these counterterrorism operations, is that where you got into the whole mental game and performance under high stress scenarios, or was this something you were already kind of mulling on as a firefighter?
Yeah, I mean, I think I was always mulling on it, you know, and I was always kind of the pain in the ass, the the different thinker, the, hey, we can do this a little better, um, kind of guy. And, uh, the unique thing was kind of our, our responsibility had both an external responsibility and an internal responsibility to train
and develop some of our people. And kind of as we were progressing, beginning to look at things, you know, there was a what I would say, kind of a rudimentary education going on around mindset that they would teach in some of the programs. And I sat in those classes one time, super smart guy, former, you know, Seal team six guy. But like looking around the class, everybody, it was just missing everybody. And and I got it because I understood that world because I'd already kind of
been reading and researching and really diving into some stuff. Um, and we just had to figure out a better way to deliver to get it connect. Um, and so actually, I called my uncle, uh, who, uh, did the cheesy Moms to Chef peanut butter campaign back in the day.
To what?
Did, uh, you remember choosey moms choose Jif.
Oh, geez. Uh, now I'm feeling a little bit dumb, even though I. I don't consider myself a peanut butter aficionado, but perhaps a peanut butter addict for much of my life. Uh, but but no, not familiar.
But that that was the big, huge campaign that that Jif came out with back a long time ago. Uh, so he's a big marketing guy, right? And he's a big emotional intelligence marketing guy. And I called John one day and said, hey, I have about an hour to deliver highly scientific yet highly emotional content. How can I
do that? And and he was pretty integral in helping me understand how to develop a class with a certain flow that engage people's emotions and then dropped into logic and science and then brought them back in and just kind of rode this wave. Um, and then that compounded into, okay, how do we train and develop our people better? And, you know, out of that we were really up against, you know, some of the things during that time, post 911 had to understand. We're kind of a what I
would call a head up force. So we're very thinking culture, right? Everything kind of goes on in the head, and we're dealing with a nose down culture where it's very much about intuition and instinct. You know, you show up in the environment. If I've got to meet people from the other side, like they're going to smell the nervousness or
the energy on me instantly. So, uh, this is where we kind of just started down the line of discovery of how do we develop people to be capable to operate in those environments more effectively.
So obviously there's a lot of different places that we. To start. But what I thought was kind of interesting that that caught my eye when I was looking over some of the things that you've done, is how you have kind of delved into the quantitative aspect of what's going on with the nervous system in a high stress scenario, and how you're calculating that, and then how you're then implementing specific tactics to be able to manage the central
nervous system in those scenarios. And obviously, that's kind of a big question, but I'd love for you to kind of dive into how that actually looks.
Yeah. So, you know, a couple things. I'm kind of a guy that, you know, okay, what's the question we're trying to answer with the what's problem we're trying to solve. How do I take people and get them more in body, more, uh, regulated more and begin to understand what's going on inside at any moment? Um, you know, traditional things even in fitness. Right? And even because this is all article, my thing is everything we're talking about is applicable to every aspect of life.
So normal patterns of development are really more task based, right? Can I do this? Can I do that? Can I do this? Can I do that? I learned something, I developed a skill, I can demonstrate it. Now. It's like okay, cool. Now go out in the world and produce me results. Well, there's there's a big gap between, you know, stepping out of something and then producing quality results that really matter.
And that was the place of play and discovery, really. Um, and I needed tools and resources that I could leverage in the field. I didn't have a lab. I didn't, you know, I needed the uncontrolled space to see what was actually happening, what the behaviors were that were being exhibited in very specific conditions. And so, you know, we went to heart rate variability. Uh, polar electro was really the, you know, polar electro heart math where the primary games
in town at the start of it. And then I got to know the kid who developed a Zephyr bio harness. So we started using that because that gave me heart rate, heart rate variability, respiration rate, you know, all kinds of goodies and the ability to see it live, which was a big win.
And by the way, that the use of that bio harness, the Zephyr bio harness, which I'm familiar with. And for those of you interested, it's a ZF. Why? Ah, if you want to look it up and I'll, I'll put all this stuff in the show notes. If you go to Ben Greenfield fitness.com/brute force podcast I know that that it does some some pretty advanced monitoring of things like
central nervous system variables and HRV. But was that prior to the advent of some of these smaller wearables, like the aura or the hoop or the or the bio strap.
I always joke and say it. If I could have published my documentation back in the day, I'd own hoop today. Uh, but you know, it was all done for another reason. So yeah, they didn't. Yeah, they didn't exist, uh, back then and, um, and really, at that time, heart rate variability was a fairly new part of the equation. I mean, heart math was really the leader in discovering heart rate coherence and stuff at the time. And, you know, their science is pretty solid, um, in a lot of ways.
And so we began to look at the methodology, began to understand shifts in heart rate variability and what those were. And then I needed to develop a training methodology or scenario methodology that enabled me to apply very distinct stressors in certain conditions at certain times and then measure output. Right. So measure uh, information gathering awareness, uh, actions, behaviors, decision making, all those criteria. Right. Uh, what what the result what
is actually coming into result. So, you know, what we found was a couple unique things. One, using heart rate variability in that methodology. Uh, we we started to outline what we call the stacking effect, which was interesting.
Okay.
So, uh, for instance, if I've got, uh, a group of, you know, operational people, uh, going into a scenario very hyper realistic, a lot of work to it. And I'm laying in, you know, I, I'm laying in like small things, like, uh, you know, old man and garb walking across the street in front of the car and extra little people hanging out there or kids playing soccer, whatever it is. Right.
I'm I'm adding in all these kind of peripheral stressors that have no impact on what they're about to do, but start to cause the brain to to separate its thinking process. Okay. And, and in data, what we're able to see is a kind of each, each application of stress, either that's an indirect, uh, satellite or a direct stressor at each application. Was the individual recovering from that heightened experience?
Were they integrating specific techniques to maintain control of their central nervous system?
Now, now when you say recover, do you mean like, um, I'm met with a stressful scenario and, you know, let's use a very small example, a bunch of lines jumping out from the email inbox on my computer. And, uh, you know, we know that you can do, like, just say three settling breaths, right? Two count in through the nose, four count out through the mouth three times. And and you can measure. And I've done this, you know, a
pretty significant near. Instantaneous shift in heart rate variability. Now is what you're alluding to the fact that that can be trained or is better managed in certain individuals. And you were starting to measure that.
Yeah. So that's really I mean, ultimately it's you know, I kind of I joke after I teach a 4 or 5 day class, I'm like, hey, we just spent five days together. And really all I did was taught you how to breathe. Um, because that is that's the primary course of action, right? And a a rhythmic releasing breath process, very similar to what you described, a few mods to it, a few distinct characteristics to it. You know, it is it becomes the primary source for for regulating
the central nervous system. When I begin to combine that with anchoring into the present moment, right. Getting off the thought trains, not getting spun into a different direction. When I return to now, whatever condition I'm in, I'm able to begin to regulate that system. Now you also have to, you know, understand. That's not like going from, oh crap, we're about to get in a firefight to like, oh,
I'm totally chilled out on the beach. The, you know, you need to use the advantages of your system however you want to keep it in in zone. Right? Just like fitness, just like we're working out. You want to be in the zone that you need to be in to perform at the level you want to perform. So even applying the same techniques, no matter what the conditions are, my system is regulating to the optimal space. And, you know,
and then we're able to see that on data. I'm able to actually measure, uh, impact and severity of the stressor on the individual. I'm able to measure, uh, the what I would call the time under threshold or, you know, slang term dragging the bottom, uh, which is the time that they are dropping their heart rate variability, comparing cognitive function, impairing awareness, impairing decision making, and then their rate of recovery, how fast it took them to get back to probably 80%
of their base. Right. And I'm able to see that on the data. Does that help or make sense.
Yeah, absolutely. Now now you refer to a couple of things there. I've obviously treated breathwork pretty extensively on prior podcast. Kind of kicked that horse to death. But you mentioned a few other things like like you said, anchoring in a specific moment and then you said something after that.
So in addition to breathwork, what would you say? Ah, when someone is in a high stress scenario, whether it's physical or emotional or mental stress, what are some of the other big wins that you found through that quantification process that just work like gangbusters for managing stress in those scenarios?
Yeah, man. I mean, most times what happens is when we when we experience and I like to refer to a load on the system, you know, less about stress. And it's very individualized across the board is what I found in all of these studies. So um, but when there's a load on the system and the system kind of starts moving into a state of arousal, right? And things start kind of working. I'm stressed, I'm feeling a
certain way. There's some real distinct tactics to use, because what begins to naturally happen in the untrained or undeveloped person is my system start to work in conflict, meaning my brain, my thought patterns are are are skewing off into more than likely a future based outcome. Right? Fear is just a projection in the future of what may or may not happen. So my mind is getting ahead of myself then and it's triggering things. Have it even
happened yet? Which my body is trying to move into alignment, saying, hey, I may be under threat or something's going on. There's a perception that something's going on and I need more right now in this minute. So central nervous system is kicking into cue. You're getting all the chemical dump. You're doing all those things. Mind starts shaping forward into creating kind of worry, doubt or whatever it might be conflicting back and sending disconnected messages back down to the central
nervous system. So I'm operating a conflict at that point. And, you know, you said something interesting about, um, the way you want your boys to grow up, right? And I really like to when I'm teaching, I break down the difference between perception and discernment. I believe discernment is really a gateway to seeing what is actually happening, being very flat about it, versus a perception which is going to go through our filters, which may go through our biases,
which is more interpretive, if you will. So. So utilizing the right breathwork, coming back to the present moment, anchoring into what's actually occurring and dealing with the challenges at hand, kind of being very, very flat about it. You know, you used to call it, you'd see guys out of Seal Team six or Delta who, you know, guys had been in combat. We we call it a thousand yard stare.
It just looks like they're burning a hole right through you. Um. They are they have trained over time to be extremely discerning. They're just assessing factually what's happening. So when I can get to that place that actually starts to bring brain heart, central nervous system into alignment rather than this kind of
disrupted space fighting. Against each other, compounding the effects. And now I am actually more settled, and I'm allowing my body to do its natural course of action to give me the energy or the blood flow or the breath, whatever it is, I physically need to deal with it in that moment.
Can that be trained and if so, how are you having something like that?
Oh yeah. So I mean, some of it's fairly easy. I mean, it's, you know, it's been crazy across the board. There's really no difference between, um, you know, a pro golfer, an operator, a guy in the stock exchange floor, a CEO running a public traded company. Um, you know, one, the the breathwork is key now. And I know you've exhausted this. I'll just do this quickly. Uh, our technique is, you know, nasal breath in roughly about a four count
deep into the diaphragm. Right. Fully engagement. I find a lot of people have to actually learn to re-engage their diaphragm because there are more shallow chest breathers than they are diaphragmatic breathers. So, you know, there's the practice of that. So fundamentally, I'm taking control on the way in. I feel good about it. I'm controlling my breath deep in the diaphragm, full expansion. And then I just do an open mouth, relaxed jaw, allow the breath to leave the body at its own pace.
And by the way, it's interesting I should mention the open mouthpiece because a lot of people will tell me, why don't you? Why don't you breathe out through the nose the same way that you would breathe in through the nose? Because, you know, you breathe in and you get the nitric oxide and, and the filtering and some of the better oxygenation, but then breathing out, it's interesting
that there's a few different things that happen Biomechanically. But one important one is you actually see like a little bit more movement of the diaphragm when when you breathe out through your mouth, it seems to somehow incorporate more of those diaphragmatic muscles and also allows for a little bit more control. Meaning you've almost got this, this built in meter, meaning your purse, lips, and how forcefully you exhale through those pursed lips of the the length and
the intensity of the exhale. It's more it's more difficult unless you're reaching out to and pinching your nostrils through a nasal exhale to be able to modulate the outflow as opposed to breathing out through the mouth. So I, I'm, you know, typically 90% of the time doing breath work, unless it's getting into a real hefty pranayama. Right, right. I'm usually going in through the nose, out through the mouth.
Mhm. Yeah. I mean it's uh, it's really I call it the, the return to the original breath. Right. You look at your kids until about age five, seven. They're belly breathers. They don't care. They don't even think about it. Then they hit the playground. They got to start posturing, you know shoulders rise, chest comes up. I move my breath up to the upper chest. And there I am, shallow breathing. Right, because it becomes more about posturing and demonstrating.
So returning to the original breath and the other thing that you're doing in that, in that giving up control kind of I almost described, like letting gravity right, pull the breath away, let the let the allowing the breath leave the body. You're also triggering the, the vagus nerve and you're sending signals of safety to the brain. Right. So you're actually checking in with yourself, going, hey, I'm safe. And this is another kind of core aspect of what
we discovered. I fundamentally believe now. And I've said it several times, there's really only one question that matters to every being on the planet. And that is am I safe? Right. That's the that's the constant check. Am I safe? Am I safe to say this, be this, do this right? Am I say physically so right so well?
Am I safe? Am I, uh, what are the three things? Basically security, uh, um. And control am I loved meaning am I being seen and heard? And there's a third. Why am I blanking on the third? It's to. It's to be loved. It's to be in control. And it's to be.
Is that to be acknowledged or be or you said be seen. Right. So all.
Right. Jumping through the podcast right now screaming screaming at us.
So so fundamentally here's what we're doing when we align, when we bring everything together. You know, safety is a matter of perception. Most of us don't have quality anchors of safety from growing up. Right. It's skewed. Safety is not necessarily we don't label it good or bad. It's a sensation in the body that we're radically unfamiliar with. And and so when I align the breath with the cognitive tools, with the anchoring in the present moment, I'm
validating the sensation being experienced in the body. Like right now, sitting at my computer, I'm sitting at my desk. I get to look out at the beautiful backyard. We've got eight inches of snow on the ground right now. It's snowing like a fiend. It's wonderful. And I get to breathe, sit in and anchor into this present moment, going, oh, how cool is this? I'm I'm in the experience of the moment and it's registering down into my lower systems
as I'm okay, I'm safe, I'm good. The more I develop that, the more comfortable I become being in uncomfortable situations.
Mhm.
Right. The more willing I am to kind of extend myself into the unknown or the levels of discomfort, because I'm developing kind of an internal power or confidence that I will be able to figure things out, that I will be able to deal with it, that. I will, you know, be okay.
Yeah, yeah. And that that reminds me when you said that that jog my memory. It's control. So basically, you want to be safe and secure. You want to be loved, accepted, you know, noticed, seen and heard. And then we desire control. Like, those are the three basic things. Safety, uh, love and control. Well, hello. I want to interrupt today's show, which is, I guess, appropriately enough, brought to you by nicotine. Uh, because we
all know smoking cigarettes can turn your teeth brown, right? Uh, but if you like nicotine and you like the the the pick me up that nicotine can give you this company. Lucy. They make. They're an oral nicotine company, but they make nicotine gum and lozenges and these pouches. And by the way, their espresso flavored pouch is amazing. I love it, this little four milligram espresso flavored pouch, uh, almost as good as a cup of coffee. Even better with a cup
of coffee. And, uh, anyways, I have to tell you a disclaimer. This product does contain nicotine, and nicotine is an addictive chemical. I have to I have to tell you that. Okay, but, uh, aside from that warning, uh, if you haven't used nicotine is like a cognitive pick. Me up. It's not like smoking a cigarettes and all those toxins. It's just pure, clean nicotine. And Lucy does a really good job. Make it a super clean product.
So you're going to get 20% off if you go to Lucy Koh and use promo code Ben 20 at checkout. That's Lucy Koh and use code Ben 20. This podcast is brought to you by BOE. That's viewer free. VR is a clothing company and they make these amazingly comfortable shorts, pants, tops that not only work really well for workouts or activities like hiking or running or training, but they're versatile enough to wear, to work, to wear out, to eat, to.
They look fashionable. They don't, you know, they're not like spandex or, you know, or hokey workout gear where you got to switch out of your workout gear from the gym to the boardroom to going out to dinner. I mean, you do want a shower, and I wouldn't wear the same sweaty pair from the gym to the office, you know what I mean? But they, uh, they work really well, and they're they're amazingly comfortable. Like, half my wardrobe is
very clothing, so you get 20% off. That's pretty fricking significant. 20% off of anything from VR. If you go to VR clothing.com/ben Fiore clothing.com forward slash. Doesn't everybody know it's a forward slash now GS VR clothing.com/ben viewer free clothing.com/ben. That'll get 20% off. They have men's gear. They have women's gear. Uh this time of year if you're living in a
cold area check out their ponto pants. If you're a dude, check out their performance joggers if you're a lady, because those two are wonderful for outdoor workouts and you're just going to dig any of this stuff from VR. So have fun with that 20% discount. Slap it on anything you want VR clothing.com/ben. And finally, True Cava. True Cava is bringing you this podcast that's starting to become known as the as the sober psychedelic. It's got these gentle
antigenic or psychedelic effects. Uh, but they leave your functionality unimpaired, meaning you get everything you'd want from, say, like microdosing with psychedelics, creative and introspective thinking, improved mental health, more empathy, uh, and a nice, focused but relaxed with no jittery type of feeling. A lot of people use this as an alternative to alcohol. They, uh, you know, like a connoisseur of kava. Uh, yeah. That was actually exists. There are
kava connoisseurs out there. They they describe the experience as a calm, enhanced state of natural sobriety. I interviewed the guy who designed this stuff, Cameron George, on my podcast. You can go listen to it if you want to. And it's it's amazing. It's basically a nootropic drink, but it's it's from a root that's been used for like 3000 years as a safe, natural non-addictive alternatives to drugs and alcohol. It's called kava. Let's check it out. It's
called true kava is the name of the brand. Get true Canva.com true without any get true, get true Canva.com spelled a k get through kava. Com and use code Ben ten for 10% off at get true kava.com and use code Ben one zero for 10% off. That makes sense. And, you know, I understand that, you know, through breathwork and through anchoring into the present moment, we can begin to develop this ability to be able to operate well under
significant stress. Would you say there's anything else, mentally or emotionally that are big, big things that you focus on?
Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things though, we won't get into it today, but I've got a math equation for what kind of this looks like. I had to figure out a way. I had to figure out a way. Not not only. Yeah, so not only to develop like the systems and the understanding, but then how do I train operators? How do I train anybody? How do I communicate this effectively so people get it. Um,
and got super smart people around me. I mean, guys from Wharton had a, uh, performance at the Pirates who was working at the Navy at the time, uh, doing some things with us, like really big brain people. And I would, you know, send them things like, hey, does
this work? And we came up with this math equation for how do I develop certain behavioral traits that we identified through about 300 interviews that exist in the top tier performance performers and either don't exist or exist in very small forms and fashion at the lower end of the spectrum. And what we found was these and I kind of just talked about them, I call it their C3, uh, which is a extreme level of comfort and very uncomfortable
or dysregulated situations. They just can go anywhere in the world anytime, just because they're good, because they've anchored that, that model of safety and trust in themselves. Which leads to the second C, which is confidence, a true faith in self, a true faith in their own abilities and their training. Which then leads to the third level, which is creativity, right? The the ability to figure it out.
I mean, I spent my life being dropped into various countries with crap information, half stuff this, that and like, okay, go sort it out. Um, and and you just learned and natively do that over time and experience. However, following the distinct process, you can begin to speed that up rapidly. Um, but in that component, the key aspect that is the developer of that is a person's level of openness, which
can be measured. And openness is a is a kind of a composite of curiosity, use of imagination and humility. And so when I have those subtle factors behind the scenes, when when people are truly open to experiences, open to learning, they're not coming with, you know, all their judgment, like, oh, no, well, somebody else taught me this, and this is the way it goes. You know, it's like breathwork. I mean, I
it's all valuable to me, right? I mean, if you as long as it's practice, as long as it's developed, as long as there's some data behind it, you got to find what works for you. I'm not like you have to do it this way kind of guy. So those key aspects at the underlying aspect of human behavior are the catalyst for real performance, real change, real capability.
Yeah. Yeah. And there's kind of a corollary here. And this is kind of a perfect segue because I wanted to get into this whole idea of unstable physical loading, because I know that's something you're also kind of expert in, because that's where this whole, like, idea of sandbags and sand filled kettlebells and things that you guys have at,
at brute force, come in. You know, what I've found is when training with kettlebells and sandbags and kegs and, you know, so-called strongman training, I still think one of the better books out there I read back in the day, I interviewed on my podcast, I'll find a link and put it in the show notes for you all at Ben Greenfield fitness.com/brute force podcast. Uh, strength coach named Zach Evans I think has one of the best strongman training
books out there. It's kind of like how I learned to build up my little garage gym, chock full of equipment that is full of unstable loads. I've found that when I wind up in the average hotel gym with Nautilus machines and symmetrical barbells and dumbbells, that it feels so easy. But mentally and physically compared to this unstable,
unpredictable loading. And, you know, obviously from a very broad standpoint, most people get it that when you use an unstable load or something slightly asymmetrical like a kettlebell, that you are going to develop the ability to perhaps recruit muscles in a manner that allows for more stability. But I'd love to take an even deeper dive into what's going on with with so-called I think you guys at brute Force call it call it ulu training.
Yeah. So that's kind of the core, uh, fundamental process. Right? The unstable load on object was what was developed.
Unstable load. Odd object.
Yep. Unstable load on object. So, uh, that was the program that, uh, one of our team members, uh, Chris Lane, came up with. Phenomenal guy, super beast, way forward. Thinker. Um, and put it to the test. Took it to the universities, started laying it out. We're going to be launching the level one certification course online, uh, here in about three months, I think. Um, but. Right. So this is kind of the fundamental context of the, of the sandbag or whatever
shifting load work you're going to do. Um, for me, I love it. Now 47 years old, uh, a lot of damage to the body. Uh, you know, a lot of a lot of use on this kid, uh, over time. And, you know, for me, what I find is fundamentally because it is you are no matter what your movement is, your body is always regulating. You know, I compare it to, like, the new way to design cars. You're driving the car. However, what's going on underneath of that is suspension's constantly shifting
tire pressures may be shifting. Like if you're buying a, uh, you know, fully upgraded car. The calculations that are being done to make that a smooth ride for you are incredible. And that's really a good comparison to to working with the unstable load to working with the sand bags. You know, you're taking very specific basic movements that you may do on CrossFit or other environments now, but you're adding a level of complexity because you are internally managing this load
that is constantly moving back and forth. I mean, it's it's always funny to me when I see other sandbags out there or people out there who like to pack their sandbags so full, it basically becomes just a weighted, you know? Bah. Yeah, that's.
That's a funny thing. If it's if it's too full, it's actually paradoxically easier. It's heavier but easier.
Absolutely. You know, and and so because you are firing all the, uh, neuromuscular connect, you know, connective tissue, all the activities inside, all the internal stuff, you're actually, you know, and I'm being the geek that I am, I'm, I'm now putting data to the data to this to look at, uh, what's actually happening within the central nervous system. Uh, heart rate raises faster, uh, increases recovery time at a faster rate. You know, if combined with breathwork. And we can talk
about some of the things that we're doing. Uh, so I'm literally laying out now taking the fundamentals. We learned the things we did in the operational environment now truly like breaking them down into this fitness model. And, you know, we've been in conversations about what's next beyond functional fitness, what's next, beyond what's out there. And we're testing it out in the challenge now, with a lot of people
moving more towards this idea of instinctual fitness, right? This idea of full body, brain, mind, breathwork alignment in the activity so that I am reentering points of safety, I'm extending my point of comfort. I'm willing to be a little more discomfort or excuse me, uh, uh, uncomfortable or uncomfortable. Yeah. Sorry about that. Uh, coming from a couple of days of brain fog being sick a couple months ago, um, still not firing on all cylinders. And glad we didn't
do this yesterday. I canceled a show yesterday, uh, that I was going to be on because I was just not functioning. Why so willing to say again?
Why were you not functioning?
Oh, so I mean post post my Covid in November.
Oh, it was like post-Covid brain fog. Yeah.
And some days it just comes out of nowhere and it's like I'm just. I feel like I'm, you know, an idiot. Uh, yeah.
So yeah, there's there's, there's, there's certain things that can help, like a lot of those, those, uh, intranasal peptides like Cmax and cerebral ice, and those are amazing for that. Yeah. Uh,
I think that's like top of the totem pole. And then the other thing is, from a technology standpoint, like the two things, because I've had people with, with like brain fog and even post-Covid issues, you know, who visit my house and down to my basement, I have all these toys and, uh, the, the hyperbaric chamber and, and then there's this other device called a bio charger that
combines near-infrared, uh, radiofrequency PMF and infrared light. And there's some settings on there that are directly correlated to frequencies for stimulating the brain. That and then there's this thing called a v light. V light is developed for dementia and Alzheimer's. But it if at a at a 40Hz signal it just turns on the brain. They have a
ten hertz alpha more relaxing signal. But like that that's that's like kind of some of the more advanced stuff a lot of people may not know about is intranasal peptides, hyperbaric bio charger, and the V light. Like you stack those and you can beat back just about any form of brain fog.
Oh well then I will. When we're done here, I will, uh, get on the line and get some stuff situated. Yeah.
Okay. Anyways, though, I derailed you. So you you're talking about how stupid you are? No, I'm just kidding. Um, and then, uh. Anyway.
Right. So extending the ability to be uncomfortable. Right. To be. Because that's where growth occurs. We know this, right? I mean, you serve yourself up daily to you know, what's next? I mean, I I've curated my Instagram feed to to get what I want, you know, and actually enjoy my time when I do have the moment to scroll through. And every point is like a value somebody I appreciate, somebody I want to learn from, somebody who's bringing some
on the table. You're on that stack and have been for quite some time to get some tips for.
I've never scrolled through Instagram in my life. I have yet to figure that out. I post to it sometimes, but I I've never I've never actually scrolled through Instagram. I've never even played around with that screen.
No man, I've kind of figured out how to curate that. So it's effective. Um, but part of the job being out there. So anyway, um. So this whole process, right when we begin to align a more disruptive movement pattern, you know, for instance, we had the big guys in the gym the other day, the big boys, we said, all right, you know, why don't you kind of do a warm up set with 135 barbell clean and press, just go. Go until you're kind of like, okay, I'm good.
I'm functioning ready to go. And then we break out the £135 sandbag and said, okay, now you got to Max. You got to meet the same rep things. And it was halved. Um, and one of the big guys who's a big strongman guy, Olympic lifter, he literally through the back down and was like, I'm now clear. If I need to get stronger, that's what I need to do. Yeah.
You're seeing them by, you know, seven. Like grabbing other handles, trying to figure out how to manipulate the bag, trying to get it up, just sweat pouring off of them so you it's not a one for one correlation. We tell people that all the time. Like don't try to start off at £100 of sand. It ain't going to work, you know. Yeah. Get your get your ego out of the way.
Yeah. And what's interesting is it's unstable load training a lot of times people will find despite lifting lighter weights they'll be more sore. And when you when you think about it, there's actually a concept in in exercise physiology called inhibitory postsynaptic potential. So what that means is, is basically when you're using all these big prime movers, these big muscles that you're used to using, a lot of times you get used to using and stabilizing using those
big muscles. But once you add in an odd asymmetrical object, it shifts a lot of the load to different areas. In the joint, you get different neuromuscular recruitment, and you're going to begin to recruit all these tiny, stabilizing muscles that inevitably result in kind of an increased, delayed onset muscle soreness post-workout, but also results in using your beautiful analogy about the car, a better ability of the body to be able to modulate itself under stress, almost like a,
you know, like a, like a Ferrari. And so the only thing I've really found that that simulates that type of, oh, gosh, I didn't realize I have all these muscles I haven't been using. I'm sore type of effect is electrical muscle stimulation training, right, where you're basically just overriding the brain and going, you know, bypassing the brain that's really working during the unstable load on object training instead just saying, all right, we're just going to shock you into submission.
And you use an external controller rather than the brain. But it's similar concept. Both electrical muscle stimulation and unstable load training wind up with a neuromuscular recruitment that often even if even if you're thinking about using those other stabilizing muscles like thinking about, say, turning on your glute meed by driving your knees out at the bottom of
a squat and externally rotating your hips. Even then, it seems that once you throw an asymmetrical object in, or once you throw electrical muscle stimulation in there, there's no choice, right? It automatically shifts the body into using those muscles whether you like it or not.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that's why we're, you know, we're big proponents of, you know, integration of this. You know, we've got some people in our community that are 100% sandbag all the time, you know, every day. That's just their thing. That's what they have in the garage. Right? That's where they that's where they live and operate. But we've also seen this massive influx of, you know, big time crossfitters, big time lifters now moving to a 2
or 3 day a week kind of sandbag integration. And, um, again, I, you know, going through the process here, like I want to I'm curious to see now if, if we can, we're going to get a bunch of crossfitters do a huge study on it, um, that we're going to take some core movements where they're plateauing, move them to certain sandbag exercises for distinct period of time, and then come back and see the gains. My my theory is they're going to be pretty, pretty solid. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah.
Because you come back to that bar after working sand for a period of time, it's it's like, you know, what is this thing?
Yeah, yeah. And then and then like, boots on the streets for, for people who haven't ever done this type of training. You know what what we're talking about is equipment. Like, like if you were to go to, to your website, Jeff, basically you've got sandbags, which we've established you shouldn't overfill, keep them kind of loosey goosey, but still to load the challenges you you've got balls which are, you know, like sand filled, adjustable, you know, Atlas Stone style balls
that are also obviously somewhat unstable. And then you've got, uh, your kettlebells that you can fill with sand, which I kind of like. You can also take these when you, when you travel and just fill them up whenever you get to where you're going and not pay an ungodly, you know, 70kg, uh, TSA fee, uh, and then you've got weighted vests. Now, let's say that somebody's like, okay, we're gonna I think you guys even have like a
garage gym bundle on your website. Let's say somebody like, grabs that bundle, they've got all this shit laying around in their garage. Walk me through what, in your opinion, like a gold standard. Typical training session would be for
the folks who are kind of like the 8020s. They're like, all right, there's probably a hundred different workouts I could do with these things, but what would be an example of like a go to workout in a scenario of Oulu training using these type of, uh, using this type of equipment?
Yeah. So, you know, one of the things before we get into, I'm going to tell you, I mean, one of the things I love about Sam. I personally just coming from my background. It is. It is definitely a more visceral based workout like you. There are things you get to do with the sandbag. You don't get to do it. Everything else. And so one of the kind of one of the cool, uh, um, throw it in the garage, go hit it. You know, basic 20 minute arm wrap, many rounds is possible. Um, and we like
to start off with our push up drags. So literally, your, uh, say you're going to plant your bag to the right side of you, you're going to do a push up on the up. You're going to reach through with your left arm, drag that bag all the way through and across. So you're actually, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Right back down, back through. Right. So we got ten push up drags. Then we're going to get up. We're going to do ten shoulder slams which is really a a cool engagement
in the body right. So I got to pick this bag up up onto the shoulder. And then just full power for slam to the ground and just let it rip back up and slam to the ground.
So rather than like an like an overhead med ball slam, you're just going to the shoulder then slamming.
Yep, yep. Up to the shoulder. You know and then using a full. So uh, you know for me like I'll rotate I'll do one one on the shoulder. So come up to the shoulder, kind of anchor in for a second. Power up, move down, align force, drive all the way through and just slam right to the ground just with full energy. Um, then, you know, pop that thing up, do ten shoulders, the shoulders, which is really developing that entire system. So literally it goes from grabbing
the bag. Gotta manage it. Got to figure out where I want to hold it up. Full extension overhead. Back to the other shoulder up, full extension over the head, back to the other. And then we and then we close that out with probably, uh, you know, ten jump squats with the bag, which is a humbling experience. Um, you know, for the jump.
Squats, you have the bag, uh, like a backpack, kind.
Of backtrack. Okay. Just backtrack. Uh, you can do I mean, we do have front rack jump squats, so you kind of can modify it up. Yeah, it's a great thing about it. And, you know, this is what, you know, we're in the process of refining gear right now. That's kind of been our primary effort is how do we refine what we have and make it more functional, etc.. So the small bag, which will now be called the Scout, um, that's going to become a recommended 20 to £50 sandbag,
the mid tier, which is the athlete. Uh, that'll sit probably about 30 to almost £80 when we're done with it. Then the strongman, the big one, uh, the Georgia State Police, you know, more more police academies, fire academies use these things. They've got a couple of them and they call them the bag of. Whoa. Um, you know, that thing goes from about 75 to 140, uh, which is gnarly. I mean, yeah, gnarly.
Yeah. Okay. So that's that's kind of like a garage, gym and rap style workout. Um, I love to. I love to talk workout. So I'm going to throw a more endurance style workout at you and then, uh, maybe come back at me with one of your, one of your favorite endurance workouts using this stuff. Sure. So there's a guy named, uh, Brian Johnson, uh, the Liver King.
I'm having him on my podcast soon. He has a workout called The Barbarian in which you you hold two kettlebells, you know, one in each hand, uh, and then weighted vest, sled, ankle weights, and you just do a drag for a mile holding the kettlebells, you know, kind of kind of a brutal farmer's walk with a whole bunch of extras added in. And then my my, uh, my Ben cares about his joints and his 40 years old now, and, and, uh, and, you know, maybe wants to go a little bit easier.
Is this new one I've been doing where I've got these, uh, £4 hand weights that just, like, strapped to each hand and then weighted vest and resisted breath training device, meaning, like I use one called the relaxer. And I've got a mile out mile back course where I hold the hand weights. You pump those vigorously the whole time you got the weighted vest on. It's all nasal breathing with
resisted exhales. And your only goal is to go two miles without taking that breathwork device out of your mouth while pumping the arms the entire time. And that, like, that one's surprisingly tough, but all you need is a weight weighted vest, £4 hand weights, and this little breath training device called relaxation. You know, I'm always just sitting
around coming up with with dinky fun little workouts like this. But, uh, for you, from an endurance standpoint, what would be an example of how you'd use some of your guys's equipment for something a little bit more endurance based?
Yeah. I mean, so, you know, weighted vest is always great, right? When you can just add a little more to it, add it to a run or do like a burden run, uh, with the sandbag, you know, any of that stuff. I mean, some of the things that we are trying to develop our people around is understanding the various models, understanding how to slow certain things down to actually, you know, operating a little bit lower zone and, and function, you know,
speed is not always the the right thing to be doing. Right? I don't need to rush through this workout right and be distinctive. So we have been adding in a lot of breathwork, uh, to the challenges to the workouts that we're putting out. So whether that's box breathing or whether that's nasal breathing, adding a lot of that function in, because the value of that is it naturally causes somebody to think about what they're doing. And really concentrate on
managing breath under load and under work. Um, but, you know, we've done, uh, a variety of things. I mean, I think a lot of what we, you know, we took over when we acquired the company was more kind of garage, gym, blow it out, you know, like the whole CrossFit style work, right? Go out and crush it. So, you know, we've just onboarded, um,
really a phenomenal coach here who's redesigning everything. They run a gym dance program at the gym where they do, you know, very much, um, uh, you know, kind of zone two work. Um, you know, he made we just interviewed him the other day, made a great sign, like, if you're if you're trying to build that endurance level, you know, you should be able to clearly communicate. I'm okay.
I feel fine without taking a breath. Right. So we're actually looking at how we begin to do that in, in more limited space because a lot of our people are garage gym people, our home based people. And so, you know, and this time of year, it's like they're not going to get out in the snow and go run or go cows don't go do those things. Um, so, you know, a lot of the efforts are slowing down, focusing on breathing, uh, and doing movements like, you know,
bear crawl drags, for instance, which is gnarly. You have. I don't know if you've gotten your kids doing those yet. Make them do that when they're, you know.
Shooting bear crawls with a sled.
So now what you're doing is you're doing bear crawls, and it's kind of like the push up drag. So back between my legs, uh, hand forward, drag the back all the way forward past my head, then bear crawl up left arm move, bear crawl up. And so I'm dragging that back forward as I'm bear crawling.
But the big is is between the legs.
So think about it. Right. I'm getting.
Oh, wait, you're not, you're not, you're not holding it between your legs. You mean it's like under your body and basically you're doing a essentially it's like pulling it forward. Yeah. So it's like bear crawl from point A to point B, but that bag has got to stay with you the whole time. Right underneath you. The whole. Yeah. Okay. So it's basically like a drag. Yeah.
Right. So if we slow that down and then we add, you know nasal breathing to that. Right. One body position, body position head down becomes radically difficult. I'm going to have to slow down my movement. I'm going to have to get more distinct. I'm going to have to moderate myself to stay in a lower zone, rather than trying to just speed through the workout, um, and, and really functioning on those things. So, you know, we've been looking at and exploring a variety of ways to step that up.
That hasn't been something, you know, we acquired the company at the mid 2021, early 2021. Um, that's just something that hadn't been fully nested per se. And yeah, really understanding the value of that level of work load on the system and then continually exploring the gear and equipment in the most effective ways to to really achieve that.
So my 13 year old sons are gonna hate you after this podcast because I, I write out their workouts every week. I I've been taking notes next. Next week's workouts are all going to be some bear crawl drags and some some sandbag work.
And oh man, we did. Mike and I did a, uh, thruster ladder the other day, just straight across their ladder with the sandbag, uh, with, you know, 1 to 1 ratio. So, uh, one thruster, one nasal breath, two thrusters, two nasal breaths. Um, and you could breathe in open mouth any way you wanted to during work, but you had to be nasal breath on recovery.
I like it. And and, uh, by the way, if you have any key workouts that you want to send over, uh, like, if you send them or if you have like a little PDF or anything like that, I'll totally put it in the show notes for people to download. If you go to to Ben Greenfield fitness.com/brute force podcast. And I'll also include uh, I think you guys are giving us like a discount code to some of the, some of the sandbags and equipment. I'll, I'll toss that in there
as well. I don't, I don't know, off the top of my head, but I'll put it in there. Uh, obviously. Um, fuel. You know, what's in the gas tank is a big part of this. I'm just curious. Um, are you just like, a full on, like, Mr. Cheeseburger, uh, guy, or do you have any specific nutrition protocols or specific diet that you use in the in your training or the or the training protocols you recommend?
Yeah. You know, I mean, it's interesting you, uh, I didn't grow up in a healthy environment. I actually grew up in the antithesis of that and, you know, wasn't wasn't really guided well in health and fitness growing up.
So it's always kind of been the the struggle for me. And, you know, now having kicked into my 40s, um, really starting to pay attention to what my body says, what's going on, what I need to do, the things I need to really take on to because I want to be a guy at 80 that you look at and you're like, dude, that guy's 80. Um, you know, that's important to me. I want to be functional and capable all the way through the end, um, for as much
as I can. And so for me, I've made some mods recently, you know, I've been using the kitchen stuff for a while now. Um, uh, which I know you're a big fan of. Clearly. Yeah, I'm a.
Little biased, but I. I'm a fan based on supplements.
Yeah. Well, you know, and. Yeah. And so, you know, my my protein. I had to shift a little while ago. Um, yours is better than most. Uh, was better than most on the market. However, uh, I moved into a full plant based off of. I moved up to almost, I would say 90% plant based diet, um, just last year. Just really getting in touch with my body and how food was affecting it. Mhm. Um, I just I've kind of it's felt better in the system. Honestly.
You still doing all right with protein though. Are you finding that you can get protein without producing, you know gut upset from excess plant intake.
Yeah. Yeah I mean it's actually it's a you know, and this is a big thing to me like individualized stuff. Like it has it has really shifted a lot for me. Um, and you know, and I'm a big, hey, you know, eat steak, do the ribs like, you know, I mean, that's the, you know, I was always that way. And it's just been one of these things. It has been inching in over this last year especially, uh, and so I'm just playing with it now. Right? I'm just I'm, you know, it's probably been 4 or 5 months of
real solid consistency around it. Uh, I'm feeling much better. My energy levels are up. I feel like my body's in more of alignment, my guts flow and better. Um, but at the same time, I'll just pay attention to my body. And if it doesn't seem to work for me, then we'll shift, you know, forward to what needs to be done.
Well, definitely. Uh, definitely stay on the key on creatine, at least. Yeah. Because you're you're gonna need that in the space.
Well, I'm still using the colostrum. Right. That's why I say I'm, you know, about 90% or so. I still drop that into my shake in the morning. Good. Uh, still on the creatine. Doing the aminos?
Yeah. I was gonna say the aminos for a plant based diet like that. That's what saves the meat. So many of my vegan clients ask for for protein. Because it's like lazy man's protein. Just do a few steps. You're good.
Yeah. I mean, the stacks in, I come in in the morning, I start my coffee while my coffee start, and I put my shake together, you know, open the cabinet. If you open my cabinets, all key on stuff sans the protein. Yeah. Powder. Yeah. You know, but but that's the stack. And that's my morning routine. That's what I go through. And and it has more than, you know. And I've played and tested supplements over time of what works for me. I will say more than any other one,
I can actually I feel connected to the results. Yeah, you know what I mean. That's what. That's what I've noticed.
Wait. For which one?
Uh, well, just for kind of the spectrum. Right. Adding the right.
Adding, adding.
Yep. Just stacking them in, just putting them in place, following that protocol and and just being consistent around it. Uh, I've definitely just it's like, oh, okay. Like whatever I'm doing in conjunction here seems to be working really well.
Yeah. I mean that's, that's my go to as well. Like I've, I've got my colostrum creatine, fish oil in the morning along with, with the uh the whey protein isolate if I am going to do a smoothie. And then I basically got my immune if something's going, I don't take the immune every day. I just take it like on, on, you know, days where there's something going through the house and then the, uh, the flex, I do, I kind of overdo the flex. I do six of
the flex on an empty stomach before I go to bed. Okay. For soreness. That's for gonna. I'm probably gonna need to upgrade it after I, uh, wind up doing these workouts we're talking about, but. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's so easy. So. Yeah, I mean, that's honestly, I'll quit toot my own horn here in a second, but that's like my whole goal with the company was I just wanted stuff that would allow you to pretty much have it all covered with one brand and have it be, um, let me put
it this way. We're kind of a budget brand. Like, it's not super expensive, fancy, you know, fringe, you know, from some, you know, corner of the Amazon harvested by a one arm monk stuff. It's just human clinical, research based stuff that that tastes good and works. So. Yeah.
Well, and and it's like I will say outside of the supplements, doctor coffee's amazing. Like, I'm a big, you know, black coffee couple, you know, two, two cups in the morning. Yeah. I transitioned to it. And, uh, that, that medium roast like, it is just I'm, I'm a, uh, a black coffee shop. I don't put anything in my coffee ever.
I haven't, I haven't had the coffee in like a week because I'm experimenting right now with, with, uh, kratom. So I've been doing a little bit of kratom and it does not blend well with coffee, so I'm, I'm missing my coffee, but I'll, I'll return soon, I think.
Yeah. And it's great. I mean, that's out of, out of everything that's out there. Uh, I've, I've really enjoyed it. It's been. Yeah. It's been fantastic. Yeah.
Well well look like for me the, the big message I'm getting here is, um, let, let's say that, that I want to make myself more gritty and resilient both mentally and physically. Like typical morning. What it could look like, for example, is get up. And, you know, once you've taken care of and I, I highly emphasize this your spiritual fitness like, take care of it. Um, you know, Bible reading, prayer, meditation, devotions always care for that. First,
I cannot overemphasize the quality that that's brought into my life. Uh, and then like morning, for example, heat stress, cold stress and breath stress, right? I really like that kind of stuff in the morning versus getting after the the heavy stuff right off the bat in the morning when I think you're a little bit more susceptible to injury. And I just think that that other stuff fits better in
the morning. If you have the luxury of time to do A2A day and then afternoon, you could do something like anchoring into the present moment breathwork, warm up, get your unstable loads and try to do nasal breathing through. Route and stay present while you're doing some of these moves that we talked about. Maybe finish with some recovery breathwork and a quick dip into an ice tub for increased resilience. I mean, something like that. I mean, you
could do that with with your kids. I mean, that's similar to what I've done with my son since they were five years old, and I've been able to witness in a young human being when you start young, I mean, like their ability to be able to function in high
stress environments, I think is good. And for me personally, my ability to be able to function when, um, you know, standing in line of the airport and they announced that the flight's delayed for hours, or, you know, when I open up my emails and, you know, and I think I'm done with work and all of a sudden there's
like 30 emails, you know, scenarios like that. I think those type of routines help to build that grit and resilience which which ultimately, I mean, if we step back and look at things, big picture, our goal in life is to love others most with whatever unique skill set we've been given in life. And if we're freaking out and flopping around like a muppet every single time shit
goes south, that's not going to happen. But I mean, if you can be that that present, zen, fully mindful, anchored person who also is able to withstand rigors of hypoxia, rigors of cold, rigors of heat, and rigors of unstable objects, I just think, like you're you're going to operate as a more impactful human being, and especially in the times that we're living in right now, a human being who can react to unpredictable scenarios pretty rapidly without, you know,
as we were talking about early in the podcast, these disturbing shifts in heart rate variability or central nervous system adaptation.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's really it. Like I, I always say like three, three different qualities that separate the top 1% from the top 10%. Right? So the top tier, their abilities. Right. They have actually taken on and developed a core set of abilities and fundamentals that they know work and, and work for them in what they want to accomplish, to their willingness to actually put themselves up there, serve themselves up, take it on, and the discipline to stay in in the work. Right. And
that those things, you see, those things exist. You begin to take those things on. I live in dynamic calendar. I, you know, integrate I integrate my breathing process all day, every day. Now when I tell people to start. So just put it in the calendar three or 3 to 5 times a day for like three minutes. That's it. Just give me give me three minutes, five times a day of rhythmic breathing for the next two weeks. Yeah, I'm asking for it. Right? Yep. Um, you know, because
sometimes the stack gets too big for some people. So how do we bring that down? Yeah, I mean, just just give yourself that grace for the day and give yourself, you know, even three, three minute segments, five minute segments. That's it doesn't take much. The body will start to realign. And your point about the kids, I agree with you. I'm watching it with my son. You know, I went back after after two girls and 12 years later did it again. Got a four year old. Now um, and
I watch it in him. Those are the same traits that I want him to remain as much in the Natural Breathwork central nervous system regulation as possible, because that is the key fundamental that he's going to grow up with and carry out into the world and be able to then navigate all the garbage that's going to show up.
Yep. Yeah. And that, that, that, my friends, is how to make yourself physically and mentally more gritty, resilient and harder to kill with Jeff Diamond, a brute force. Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna link to all your stuff. And for sure, if you send over any workouts, I'll put those in the show notes as well. We'll put, uh, we'll put some of our, our discount codes for any of the garage gym, unstable load type of stuff from brute force. Uh, the same stuff that's littered around my
entire garage. Now, in the show notes, if you go to Ben Greenfield fitness.com/brute force podcast. Remember, folks, get out there, get cold, get hot, challenge your breath, lift unstable, unpredictable loads, and stay physically and mentally gritty. Thanks for coming on the show, Jeff.
Thanks for having me, Ben. Really appreciate.
It. All right folks, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Jeff Bannon from Brute Force signing out from Ben Greenfield fitness.com. Have an amazing week. In compliance with the FTC guidelines, please assume the following about links and posts on this site. Most of the links going to products are often affiliate links, of which I receive a small commission from sales of certain items, but the price is the same for you. And sometimes I even get to share a unique and
somewhat significant discount with you. In some cases, I might also be an investor in a company I mention. I'm the founder, for example, of Keon LLC, the makers of Keon branded supplements and products, which I talk about quite a bit. Regardless of the relationship, if I post or talk about an affiliate link to a product, it is indeed something I personally use. Support and with full authenticity and transparency, recommend in good conscience. I personally vet each
and every product that I talk about. My first priority is providing valuable information and resources to you that help you positively optimize your mind, body, and spirit. And I'll only ever link to products or resources, affiliate or otherwise, that fit within this purpose. So there's your fancy legal disclaimer.