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Francis Donald joins is.
She's a chief economist at RBC, that's Royal Bank of Canada. Francis, what did you make of the FED statement yesterday, maybe the chairman's comments and then the market's reaction.
What did you take away from them?
Well?
Interesting, almost no change to the statement and actually not a material change to the forecasts for growth and for the unemployment rate. But of course the big focus now moving towards inflation, and it just struck me as very interesting that, yes, we've had some minor surprises to the upside with inflation in the past few months, but that was.
A really big move and a big.
Change in policy outlook off of the data that we've seen. I could have maybe seen a slight change in tone or maybe taking out one of those cuts for next year, but this is really a federal reserve that, even though they say they're not incorporating the effect of Trump policies, or some of them are, but some of them are not. Is absolutely internalizing what they expect to come next. It is in their psyche, in their biases. They are afraid
of inflation. And Powell, while trying to speak out of both sides of his mouth, really gave the impression that the Fed is focused on what those CPI PC numbers are going to look like, and therefore that's what the market will be focused on.
And you're hinting at how Powell was talking about during the press conference, how there were some officials, not all of them would identify that, but that there was policy uncertainty, especially when they're thinking about the trajectory of when it came to inflation, starting to incorporate that in their dots and their outlooks for twenty twenty five in the years ahead.
And obviously pal isn't going to address kind of the elephant in the room when you're thinking about the plans for fiscal side of that, but they're going to focus on what's going on with the economy and inflation. So
how do you think the FED moves forward? Because when you think back to even the last minute time Trump was in an office, it's not really the same type of playbook because the Fed's trajectory with rates was in a very different spot as the economy was, and that was well ahead of what happened with COVID.
Well back in twenty eighteen, a scary inflation would be like three percent. That would have been for many folks. That would have been some of the highest inflation that they had seen. That would be enough to spook bond markets. Now, of course we're old had a three percent it's not
so terrifying. But the American people have gone through, for many of them, the largest price level shock that they've experienced in their entire lives, and prices are over thirty percent higher than they were when Trump first took office, so that the ability to withstand and take higher prices is going to be much lower for households, for businesses,
and also for the federal Reserve. You mentioned fiscal I think this is really key, you know, I think we're still consensus economists and Marcus underappreciated how massive fiscal spending has been in the United States and how much it has complicated the federal reserves job. So they talked a lot about what neutral is Yesterday but then they talked about maybe short.
Term neutral and long term neutral.
And to me that was a nod to just how big fiscal spending has supported growth, and we've seen it today in some upward revisions. If we get a pullback in fiscal spending or an acceleration in fiscal spending, that is a huge input into the federal reserve, probably more important than just tariffs alone, which they've said they can look through to a certain extent.
So can you just define for me how you define neutral rate and how do you think how's that changing over time?
So generally, you know, the textbook definition is the rate that is neither tightening nor easing on the economy. We don't know what it is, and actually we have even less visibility into it right now because of a few factors. One of course, is how big government spending is and countercyclical government spending. The other is that we know there's
tremendous unevenness that exists underlying this economy. So even though on the surface the economy looks good, it's actually doing real bad for manufacturers, housing is really struggling in low income Americans, so their neutral rate is going to be different than the neutral rate for the whole economy, and then underlying the surface, we have this AI and productivity boom, which is probably meaning that the economy can grow sustainably higher from where it was.
So there's short.
Term factors and long term factors. How has my thinking changed on that, Well, the uncertainty around neutral is much larger, and what that effectively means is that if you can't see in front of you, you don't know where the cliff is, the odds that you fall off of it are much larger than if all the lights are on our it's sunny outside. So my concern with neutral is that this is a FED that's very wetted to the idea of getting to neutral and then staying at neutral.
But given that we have very little understanding of what it is, the odds of a policy mistake on either side of it is much higher now than it would have been even two years ago.
And you were bringing up sort of the dynamic BG because when we're looking at say data that's coming out, I mean, we just got an update on third quarter GDP coming in revised hire at three point one percent. Obviously we'll have another update on the Fed's preferred gage for inflation tomorrow with PCE. But we think a lot about the rate of change when you're looking at the month of a month or year of a year figures.
But when you're going to the grocery store, a lot of people obviously you're thinking about price levels, what they were spending and paying for things before COVID obviously versus now those kind of psychological impacts. How long do you think it'll take before How many years could it take before that kind of shakes out because there's a very disconnect there for people.
I think this is generational inflation trauma. I think when we hear, you know, when I work with folks who talked to me about the nineteen seventies and how that framed their entire perspective on markets. I mean, prices are up twenty percent in just four years. It is phenomenal inflation that we never expected to see and many didn't
believe could occur. But more problematically, it's coming from sources that are not interesst rate sensitive to the same extent, and that complicates the Fed's job because they can hike interest rates all they want, it's not going to solve geopolitical fragility. It's not going to make it Rain and Brazil when there's droughts that occur. So it isn't just inflation. It isn't just the price level shock. It's the nature of how inflation is changing that I think is particularly problematic.
But share Powell did mention this, and I think this is really important, that there's a difference between high prices and high inflation. The side point to that too, is inflation is problematic when it doesn't come with wage growth. So if prices are more, if things cost more, but you're making a lot more money, it's not going to
bother you as much. So inflation really started to be something we're talking about a lot more, really much more in the last twelve to twenty four months when wage growth started to decline versus in the first stage, when we had checks going out and wage growth was accelerating, the labor market was tight. So when I think about inflation, when I think about the neutral rates, I'm also also bringing into the perspective of what is wage growth doing in this environment.
Well, I want to ask you too, because the incoming administration has made promises to lower prices, But when were thinking about the fiscal side, of things versus the monetary side. I mean, what real are options does an administration have in order to do that? And is that even possible?
Well, lower prices would mean deflation, that means CPI, that's negative, and we're struggling to get there right now. That might be something that can be achieved in pockets, but just getting down to two percent is really the challenge. Fiscal is going to be such an important component to this story.
I've been on this show I think it's here last month and talking about how important immigration will be, how immigration actually weighs on our outlook and our concerns about the US economy more than teriffs, which tend to be one off shocks and we know how to use them. But this is a government, the US government. If they pull back on spending, they'll be able to create disinflation and help bring it back and allow the FED to ease more. But it's also going to pull back on growth.
So in my mind, it's going to be difficult for the fiscal arm to create disinflation or deflation without also materially raining in GDP.
So pick your poison, yep, exactly.
Francis, Thank you so much for joining US Francis Donald. She's a chief economist at RBC based in Montreal, Canada.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from seven to ten am. Easter Listen on Apple car Play and Android Auto with a Bloomberg Business app, or watch US live on YouTube.
Daniel d Martino Booth. She's a CEO on Chief Strategiste QI Research. Danielle, what did you take from yesterday's meeting, press conference, all.
That kind of stuff.
I don't think the market likes surprises, and I think you should stay past noon today right for the greater good? Okay, please, no, you know, I don't know if yesterday was about legacy. You know, we've got sixteen seventeen months left in J.
Powell's term.
I think he.
Is going to be one hundred percent about optionality. If he was an economist yesterday, he was an economist with three arms on the one hand, on the other hand, and on the other other hand. You know, when you look at the largest input to inflation, it's running about two point six percent on an annualized basis the lowest twenty twenty one, So that large, huge driver of inflation these last few years is coming down. Ivy Zellman just
came out with her apartment operators surveyed this morning. She's showing the same kinds of downside because occupancy right now is at the lowest in records that she's got back to two thousand and one. So there's a supply overhang that's going to continue to be kind of an anchor on rental inflation. That's ironically something that Beth Haddock might have communicated from the Cleveland Fed, since they're running the Fed's only real time rent index. And yet there she was the dissenter she was.
And obviously there's two crucial debates when it comes to the direction of federals or policy. And we've talked so much about this what's the neutral rate for the post pandemic economy? And then also when you're thinking about policy changes, whether it's tax, immigration, regulation, trade, tariffs, and obviously the inflation forecast. So how do you view those two issues going into twenty twenty five.
Well, and you know, I mean there's a huge unknown. Let's just say that the tariffs have double the effect that they had in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, You're starting off with goods at negative zero point six goods, you're starting off at a point of goods deflation.
Even if you get double.
The effect of twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, because of the anchor that I just mentioned to you, which is rent disinflationary pressures, the Fed's still going to come in below where their end of the year inflation forecast is. So again, I think right now that they are there, they're playing out scenarios, and they're playing out what ifs, and they're saying, if the peanut butter hits the fan, we want to be ready to be in less of an aggressive easing stance.
I don't see much beyond that. January tends to be a throw the baby out with the bathwater type of month. You tend to see layoff announcements spike, you tend to see bankruptcies lift off of where their current run rate is, which according to bcy GO, you're at about twenty for the month for the month of December on a run rate basis. You hit twenty two in the month of November.
That was the second highest in post pandemic era. So if we continued to just see more of the same and again January tends to be a very ugly seasonal month because anything that you've been holding off of, if the holidays didn't lift you up and pull you through, then whether you're at the container store or big lots, you're going to liquidation pretty soon here. So I appreciate the optionality. I was surprised at the magnitude of the
surprise to the markets. But maybe he's saying, I'm not going to be the next Arthur Burns.
Come with May.
Yeah.
Well, you always remind us of this bcy go function, the turbol, and I always forget it. But it's a great function to show you bankruptcies and the companies and the industries they're in the assets the liabilities, a great, great function. So the dots and dots another cool function on the blood of terminist I guess we're kind of going from fourish to two in terms of rake.
Cuts for next year. Yeah, is that reasonable from your.
Perspective according to the terminal end of the dot plot, which you could have driven a mac truck through. No, I mean the disparity two point four percent to three point nine percent, one hundred and fifty basis points of disagreement. Let me tell you I was inside for nine years.
That's a lot of Dallas fed at the Dallas, Yes.
But we would were.
I was there for the pre briefs, I was there for the debriefs. One hundred and fifty basis points of disparity with seventeen members of the Federal up Market Committee is a lot. And that's that's how far apart views are on what the terminal rate's going to be.
And we saw another descent obviously at this meeting. How do you view the debate amongst officials at the FED as they get closer to where they think the neutral rate is.
I think they're wondering about this new kid on the block, Bell Hammock Can Company.
Usually you get your sea legs.
As as a district president. But she came out swinging and swinging hard. And what was curious to me, though, was if there was one person among the seventeen who was saying, no, I'm voting for a pause, why wasn't she joined by Michelle Bowman, who was equally hawkish. A few meetings ago from her, we saw the first federserve governor descent since Mark Olsen had done that in two
thousand and five. So I was surprised if there was that robust of a debate that there weren't two Hawks and a double descent yesterday, because usually.
Think Chris Waller cho's kind of on the Hawks spectrum as well, in addition to Mickey Bowman.
Well, but but Chris Waller is also Jay Powell's first lieutenant, closest confidante, never going to vote against the boss man.
I said it out loud, Yeah, Beth had Mica.
I was just looking up her bio in the Bloomberg triminal. I forgot she's the Goldman Sachs person.
So indeed, no surprise. I guess that she would feel comfortable outside the loop a little bit, and there's nothing wrong with that. No, No, we have to have descent on the board.
And I think the public, I think the investing public needs to know that it's not just one great, big oval table in the Echos buildings surrounded by yes men and yes women.
Yep.
So, I mean, where do we go in next year? What are you telling your clients about twenty twenty five?
Is there a theme you're talking about.
I'm telling my clients that either Trump lands in office and the private sector wakes up and says we're finished firing people, We're finished cutting costs, despite the fact that in earning season we've been hearing one company after and they're not miss on their bottom line, but miss on their top line. So ConAgra again, we're not seeing the
consumer consume. Yesterday that General Mills that Knagor was echoing General Mills yesterday saying, thank Heavens, we sell food that people eat at home because they ain't eating out, which is something we saw in the retail sales right with a negative print for restaurants.
So we're going to have to.
See a turnaround in the consumer. I'm not so sure that that's going to be the case, because the credit reporting bureaus in January they get to hear about fifty percent or so over the forty two million Americans who still have student loans who haven't made a payment since March of twenty twenty. That to me signals that there's going to be a little bit more underwriting strictness going in to the new year, because you're going to see the consumer finally take their lumps after not having paid
for nearly four years on these student loans. Nothing's been reported since then January if you were not paying as of October the first, twenty twenty four, you finally get reported to the experience and trans unions of the world.
All right, Danielle, thank you so much for joining us again. Daniel Dee Martinezroll. She's based on in Dallas, but we appreciate when she comes to New York she gives usumm of her time here in our studio.
We really appreciate that.
This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Bloomberg eleven.
Wendy Schuller joins us right now, Professor Brown University. Just get some thoughts here on what's happening to you political Wendy.
I know you.
Listened to that interview as we did. Secretary of Blincoln again voicing some optimism that maybe some progress can be made there in the Middle East over the coming weeks.
Well, I'm good morning.
I'm sure that the Biden administration, particularly Sectary of Lincoln, would like to see the release of the hostages and some sort of more permanent ceasefire reached in Gaza before January twentieth. You know, Biden's had a pretty rough ending to his presidency, and I think the world would like to see this conflict come to a close and have
the hostages released. It's a little reminiscent, although many of us might have been quite young at the time, but for the hostage release in Iran and Ronald Reagan's presidency in nineteen eighty one. But you have to think this is a complex world, and what Blincoln's trying to say is we are leaving it in the best shape we can, and we are communicating with incoming Secretary of State Marc or Rubio's team, and that there is stability in US
foreign policy. And I think that's something very important that at least the Biden administration wants to project for the incoming Trump administration.
In speaking of the Trump administration, Wendy, I wanted to point out a flash that we have on the terminal. Here is Trump talking actually to Fox News here seeing that Johnson to remain speaker if he acts tough enough. Here. What's your reaction to this as far as when you have the president, like, obviously we still have less than a month before the inauguration. We actually have actually just
a little bit because it'll be on January twentieth. But your expectations here where he's talking tough ahead of this.
Well, I mean, I think this is a really I don't think it's a well advised strategy on part of the Trump administration and coming Trump administration.
This is Elon Musk.
This is people who really want to not just roll back the federal government.
But completely undermine its foundations.
We have seen in this movie before, not only in the Trump administration, way back to Gagrich and Clinton Gangbridge shut the gu government down going into Christmas also, by the way, and Clinton ended up winning the election in ninety six quite easily and may ging Ridge the scapegoat. So it's really just it's not a winning strategy in the longer term. It doesn't set the right tone for Trump, who said he would come in and fix things, and then he's sort of encouraging the Congress to break it
because he thinks he wants the dead ceiling. I think this is all about getting the debt ceiling because he doesn't want to deal with his braakmanship six months from now when he's president of the United States.
So I think that if he got assurance, they would.
Do the dead ceiling now, which the Democrats probably have no interest in making easy for incoming President Trump.
He would relent.
So this could be just one big gambuting opening a gambling bit, just to get the dead ceiling off the table so it doesn't interfere with his first year of the presidency.
Can you explain, Wendy, for our listeners, our viewers and me, what the death ceialing issue is.
Well, basically, I mean this is just the amount of money.
As many of your listeners already know that the government can quote unquote borrow That's a complicated set of activities that borrowing, but one of them is to issue treasury bonds, right so, and interest rates are falling, so it's a little bit cheaper, although treasury rates obviously vary in some ways that are separate from this, a little bit cheaper to do that if the interest rates are coming down, so it's easier to borrow money, and that's what the
government would be doing. The problem is, when the government runs out of money, it literally cannot operate, so it's similar to a shutdown, but the legal implications are quite different.
So it's really something you don't want to deal with.
And the renegade Republicans have made this a difficult task.
Even under Trump.
They sort of grumbled a lot for a long time, and the debt is growing and Trump is somehow we're going to have to face that. So you know, it's just that he doesn't want to deal with it in the first year because it empowers some of his members.
With a very slim majority.
In the House, if Mike Johnson has to shut the government down, then that's sits on Trump, not Biden.
And that's why I.
Feel like this is a very curious strategy going into an inauguration and the start of the second term of Trump.
So what do you think are the scenarios that could avoid as shut down this week? And based on what we've seen in the past, well.
In some ways, I mean, you know, there is a lot of spending in this bill that, as there always is, that you could argue is not vital or necessary. And I think if there's some concession on some of that spending, that gives Trump the opportunity to say he was influential in save face, but ideally he liked the debt ceiling extended,
so he doesn't want to deal with it. So I don't know if they're willing to do that in twenty four hours, but going into the holiday, you know, as it goes along, unless they exempt things, which sometimes they do, like fundamental services the FAA for example, for all these people going on vacation national parks where people might be planning trips to. We've seen this movie, as I said before, and it doesn't end well for the party that's blamed
for the shutdown. So I think that's the negotiation. And Trump has put himself out there and maybe now he feels like, oh now I have to backtrack, or maybe things people go on Christmas break and they won't even notice, and I'll get it done for the new year. But this is, you know, this is not the way you want to start your new administration.
When are you surprised that we have two civilians here, Donald Trump and Elon Musk having such an influence over these types of matters, And quite frankly, I have not really heard, or I don't think we've really heard from our President Biden about how he viewsed this negotiation is this How odd is this scenario here?
Well, I mean it's actually Trump did this before with the immigration bill.
The conference is ready to pass a border security with some immigration reform, and he killed it. He killed it by saying I don't want it, and I'm going to primary you. I'm going to get people to run against you in primaries, and the Republicans folded the last minute. This is just wholesale the capture of the Congressional Republican Party by Donald Trump.
The key is it's.
Captured in the House, but it may not be as holy capped in the Senate. So if Republican senators don't want to shut the government down, they'll go to Donald Trump and say, well, we're reconsidering your nominees. I mean, I don't know who in the party will do that for an incoming president who's so popular, but that popularity could be fleeting if people find their inconvenience by Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
So this again is a gamble by the incoming president.
And like we've seen before with Donald Trump, it's not always a rational explanation for it.
But if they come to the table with the.
Debt ceiling extension, you can see Donald Trump flipping the script and saying, Okay, you know, don't shut the government down, and Congress can stay in session on Monday and Tuesday next week. It's not a popular thing to do for the members, but they could certainly be in session Monday and Tuesday to work this out right before Christmas.
Talk to us about Elon Musk and how he's starting to staff up his Department of Government efficiency, because there's still a question of how exactly it would operate. Because leading a commission outside of government, Elon Musk doesn't have to divest his personal financial heals when making recommendations to the White House.
Well, this is not a cabinet department, right, we have cabinet departments.
They're created by Acts of Congress.
So I don't know what the legal authority would be, as you suggest us, like what actual legal authority would they have?
So it'll be a commission.
Remember when Trump came in the first time, he formed a voting commission. He put Chris Kobac in charge of that and demanded information from states about voting records, and state said, yeah, no, we're not going to do that. So it's unclear how effected these recommendations will be without any legal implementation authority.
And how long will Donald Trump share the spotlight with Elon Musk. We all have to ask ourselves that it's Musk Musk Musk. You know, Trump likes it to be Trump Trump, Trump.
So it's unclear how long this friendship lasts and how far and how far reaching Elon Musk can be.
It is hard to move the needle in the federal government.
It's hard to change things and cut people, and it will take a while for anything to come to fruition. And we just have to figure out whether the relationship between Trump and Musk with stands that timeline.
Wennie, thank you so much for joining us.
We always appreciate getting your perspective when you Schuller, Professor at Brown University.
This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.
All right, folks, you're daily look at the front pages around the world with our newspapers in New York City.
Lisa Matey, Lisa, what do you got for us.
All right, since you love drones so much, Polems, I'm starting there.
This is in Business Insider.
You know, with all these mysterious sightings, Wing and Door Dasher actually launching delivery drones. Boy, drum mall, this is happening over in Texas. Wing He's here we go because they are actually sightings in Texas too. So now with this whole launch, deliveries can be made in those little fifteen minutes from some of your store favorite stores.
In the malls there.
This is in the I think it's the Dallas Fort Worth area, but it's making these commercial deliveries worldwide since twenty nineteen. But now with everything going on, it's kind of like, wow, is this like bad timing?
But they can fly.
They're pretty quick, sixty five miles an hour, about one hundred and fifty feet up in the air. But yeah, the reports keep coming in about all the drones.
We hear John Tucker talking about it all the time.
Won't there be more and more and more drones?
Right?
I mean, are we going to see more and more of these things? If Amazon?
Amazon's right in air?
I mean it kind of makes sense. So, but are y'all big on the wing or in door dash at all.
No, I don't have to wait the DoorDash yet.
Space and again we've already had discussion. But my youngest actually put a like a door dash or something on my credit card and that stopped right away.
Oh no, shut it down, get out of.
Your get off your bed, and go ahead and kick up your mconde.
Sweet offspring though cut off, although.
Its power right now, so that's another whole thing. I should live his life.
But it's still pretty good. Do you guys have those rewards cards? Right? Do you use the rewards?
I do?
Do you'd use them for hotels or use them for cash back and gift cards?
Hotels and air Fair?
Yeah? So you do, yes, I definitely, especially Airfair.
I used it a lot.
I was actually in New Orleans last week, so I definitely use some of that for that series I did see.
Okay, So that's the thing. So this is interesting because this is a bank great study. It says almost one in four rewards card holders don't redeem their rewards and they by the year they say they're missing out on the free money.
That's if you pay, you know, in full, every mind.
But the problem is that if you don't use them, they lose value because if inflation program changes things like that, and then you have on the flip side, three and five sixty one percent use their rewards for cash back, so they like the cash back better.
You get it. You can get cash back from your redem points for cash.
Yeah, cash back or gift cards give Okay, I do have cash back on one of my cards, so that's uh.
I feel like that money into some of my retirements.
I listened to my kids and they're very aggressively managed their points, which I never did.
Yeah.
Well, also, I feel like it's because of the way I can see it in the apps for the baking apps and the credit card apps, so I can just every day I'm like, all right, this is what I'm gonna do with that money.
But a lot of my friends use it, especially at holiday time, to get all gift cards for everybody. Yes, you got to think about that next year.
His kids, he knows what he's getting his stuck and stuffers.
They get a pat on the back for Christmas, all right near your post.
Yeah, this was in the post. So a retail thefts.
They're continuing to climb, but the problem is that they're getting a little bit more violent.
This study was out.
Yeah, the National Retail Federation came out with their Impact of Retail Theft and Violence.
Twenty twenty four.
The average number of shoplifting incidents jumped ninety three percent in twenty twenty three. That was compared to a pre pandemic monetary losses for retailers where's in ninety percent? And this is despite different efforts, right, you heard of them locking up their different items. You've heard of a number of states kind of updating laws to prosecute organize retail
crime as felonies. But the NRF vice president telling Fox that a big part of it is because of the organized retail crime groups and that's why it's getting bigger.
But also it's getting more violent aggressive.
Stores are trying to increase protection for their workers.
For customers too.
On the same time, remember we heard the bodycam story about Walmart workers body cams even TJ Max, you know, workers having to wear body cams. So it's it's an interesting topic, but it's starting to get a little bit worse now.
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, it's just I just noted from the local retailers here around our office, like the CBS or.
Everything like tooth So I.
Found myself having to order a lot more things online because then I know, even just trying to track somebody down to try to open it up, I'm like, Okay, it's going to take me a half hours.
So that's a good point that I push more people to shop online.
Yeah, I think about that, but I guess I have to high security.
I guess I don't know, right and had security.
So they're besting even employee training, teaching them how to handle workplace violence.
It's crazy how things are getting. So here's a new side hustle for you.
If you live in Utah and you happen to look like Jesus.
Is this from the journal.
Apparently a growing number of people in the state want Jesus in their pictures, so hiring lookalikes. They're doing it for family portraits, for wedding announcements, for yes, the Christmas cards of course, but how much do they charge. You can make one hundred to two hundred dollars an hour if you look the part and families and couples.
They're doing it.
They're they're going throughout different locations Utah taking these pictures. The funny part is that there are some tips from professional photographers who say, if you're doing this with your kids, just keep in mind if they don't like taking pictures on Santa's lap, but they're not going to like any
on Jesus's lap. And just the interesting one that I found is that finding a model can be tough in Utah because they have high concentrations of Mormons where the men actually have to keep their hair short and they have to shave all the time. So finding someone with the long hair and the beard is kind of tough. But if you do have it, you can make some ex Okay.
So if you're part of if you're part of the Church of Latter.
Day Saints, which is one of the state's largest employers, you're required to shave every day and keep their hair short.
Okay. I didn't know that. So that's tough for the Jesus look right.
Okay, But apparently it's going to be a thing, and people are saying, like when they post pictures, people are always.
Asking, hey, where did you get this guy?
Like?
And so then there that's world word of mauclage.
I could see the blowing up on Instagram and social media.
This one guy said, he's been doing it for like a couple of years now. It's just how we make it.
Every year ago, when I was a freshading weddings. Yes, hard time about that. Y'all thought it was a side hustle. I was just doing different friends. But here's another option for.
People can do it all right, very good. That is our newspaper segment with Lisa Miteo. Thank you so much. We appreciate that.
This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, seven to ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal