Looking Ahead to the December Fed Meeting & Markets in 2025

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Julian Emmanuel with us right now.

I can't let me frame this for you folks about how I cheat every day is as widely understood. I don't have an original thought. I read and read and read, and when earning season starts, there's not a second or a third read. Julian Emmanuel is the first read of the moment is he parses out earnings. It's what it's like, an evercore ISI thing. It's like two paragraphs log. That's all he speaks English. It's great, he joins us in

Are you?

So we're forecasting nine point six percent.

But the good news is is that when you look at the way things tend to progress, you're always over optimistic in terms of bottom up estimates at the start of the year or the year prior, and they tend to fall. They haven't the last few years because of sort of close pandemic effects. But we think this is going to be part of the return to normal.

Paul wants to.

Jump in here, but I gotta ask, were you at ten point one and Hymen got out the black the little black panem just crossed it out and rode it nine point six?

We don't round.

We don't round, all right.

So, Julian, given that kind of earnings, I know you just I'm sure you put out your twenty twenty five out look.

Put you're kind of your twenty twenty five SMP.

Target sixty eight hundred, and how do we get And that's just how do we get there?

We get their combination of things, the things that have led this bull market cycle are going to continue to lead, albeit with more volatility than we've seen because at twenty five times earnings in the aggregate index, there's going to be more volatility. By definition, the Trump administration will cause more volatility as they did in twenty eighteen when we were talking about taxes, tariffs and the border and small caps. For US small caps are under loved, overlooked. There have

So like at sixty one hundred year, you're going to sixty eight hundred. How does your equity analysis dovetail in to Edward S. Hymen's economic analysis right now?

So ed is basically been very consistent on his inflation call. He continues to think that the trend of inflation is lower now. The way we'd think about the day of the last couple months, and you'll remember, going back to March and April, you had that spicky, sticky patch where there was skepticism that inflation would continue to move lower. It royaled the stock market briefly. That's how we see the next number of weeks evolving. But that course is set towards two percent.

Did you guys change your alter your outlook the date after the election? Did that change anyway you're thinking about twenty twenty five?

We did, Okay, we did.

And it's less about Republican or Democrat, though you know, the evidence is relatively clear that certainly from the deregulation standpoint, that the Trump administration is likely to be more business friendly. But the biggest thing for us was the clarity of the outcome, the fact that we weren't having contested politics or anything that freed up the animal spirits.

What sectors do I need to lead? I've had two years where the SMP has grown twenty percent. I mean, do we not take a brether or do the AI tech continue to lead us forward?

So we think that what has led will continue to lead consumer discretionary communications services and info tech.

It is part if you.

Think about how bull markets developed. What this bullmarket is missing that you have in every bull market is a sense of, you know, sort of wild eyed enthusiasm. You can argue that there are parts of the market that we've seen in recent weeks that have had that kind of wild eyed enthusiasm, certainly anything to do with cryptocurrencies or anything like that, but those are small in market cap.

Fact, don't give me this momentum stuff. Julian Emmanuel's is far away from momentum as I've ever seen. Is there a factor that sticks out right now or is just earnings and cash flow.

So actually the factor work that we've done on is the biggest sort.

Of long term theme is.

Stocks that are able to buy their stock back, but high buy back, because if you think about it, is regardless of how this landing unfolds, if it becomes your shares, it works right and you have the cash to actually support, you know, cushion the volatility in your stock.

Julian Emmanuel darkened the door and had the privilege of working for Bill Priest years ago. How does he treat free cash flow versus different from your mortals?

It is literally the bible of the rationale for investing in corporate America. And it's actually more than that when you think about it. I worked at a company called Bea Associates, which Bill Priest was one of the founding partners in the late nineteen nineties. And the interesting confluence of that is you've had two back to back twenty percent plus years for the first time since the late

How do you tell good free cash flow from bad free cash flow that basically is one third of his book.

Well, in my opinion, is the way you do it goes back to buybacks. If companies are actually making the statement that they're able to buy back their stock, then you know that the quality of the cash flow in aggregate is better than not.

Which brings me to my interesting free cash flow buyback conundrument. If from Apple computer and i got gobs and gobs of free cash flow, yet I've got a dividend yield less than one percent?

What's up with that? What's Tim Cook thinking over there?

So the academic literature is mixed. Okay, you can and you can make the case that an environment where the FED has restored a price of money, that there may be a greater premium in the future for dividends, at least psychologically, But that's not the case for now. And again, when we think about it, and we think about what the last couple of years have entailed, and that has been twenty twenty three, we all thought the recession was coming.

Is AI still a trade for you? And if so, had he a play it or has it already been played out with envidiaes Alord? But Broadcoms kind of showing you less few days it maybe there's still lenks to it.

Well, so our view is it actually isn't a trade. It is buy and hold secular theme. And what the interesting thing is is that if you look at the last year or two, we've had this bump in productivity that really hasn't been attributable to AI.

And it's our view that when you think about twenty twenty.

Five, the upside surprise is likely to come by how much and in what kind of creative ways corporate America actually deploys AI.

So is it still kind of I mean, some people are just feeling like, all right, I kind of got the efuria of boy, that people are gonna spend a lot of money on this AI thing, and there's a lot of capex. But now the question is are some of these companies getting a return on this capital spending that could that be a headwind for just the theme.

Well, when you think about our thesis of volatility in and up market, there will be times when the perception is that and the AI leader, the leading stock as we all know, has really not been performed Waring terribly well the last couple of months, so that encourages that kind of psychology. We think those are temporary potholes with a long term trend that's got a lot further to run.

Brian Belskin the other day, like you you have to participate in the market.

You've got to be in the market, You've got to enjoy the bull market.

Belski OFBIMO makes the distinction of a cyclical bull market versus something most people without gray hair don't know, which is a structural bull market. Ed Heiman and I of a vintage remember structural bull markets?

Do you agree there's a permanence to this?

Just based on American GDP, our nominal GDP and the productivity that Lisa Monteo just mentioned, So.

It is certainly what the ongoing tailwind into twenty twenty five. But I will say that a lot of our client conversations center around, you know.

The durability of the.

American pre eminence and how and when do you reallocate towards the rest of the.

World international, How could you do that with a strong dollars that we've got, Well, because I'd say.

Can't, you can't. We are waiting for two things. A turn in the.

Dollar, which perhaps a geopolitical resolution between Russian Ukraine catalyzes. The other thing that we're waiting for is a turn higher in China bond yields. China bond yields should be worrying people because it looks a lot like Japan in the nineties.

I retweeted that last night it was shocking, the second derivative of the deflation. Mohammedalarian featured it this morning at Cambridge. I mean, what does the China second derivative of yields signal to Julian Emmanuel.

Well, Well, in fact, as it's been for the most part for a number of years, it could actually be the thing that causes the catalyst that causes the resumption of inflation to continue falling in this country, although you know in in large part to us, it really is something that's more concerning because it's clearly we'll get one more spot.

All right.

Do I have a valuation concern here? Is that a headwind for me? Or do I strip out the mag seven and them? I'm okay.

If you don't have evaluation concern, that's where we want to start being defensive.

Okay.

A lot of our clients are really focused on that, as they should be, as they should have been the entire year. But again, valuation alone doesn't end the bull. It's either recession or irrational exuberance, and we don't see either of those on the horizon.

This has been great, don't be a stranger. Thank you so much for all your work for.

Surveillance, and sure Julian Emmanuel I can't say enough about his work. We protect the copyright of all of our guests. Evercore Isi literature.

From Hymen and Emmanuel. Go to them for it.

They are the great, great shop over there in the vicinity of Fifth Avenue.

You go from Julian Emmanuel to William Priest.

Is what's it's about. Mister Emmanuel. He's chairman at td Epic. I don't know if he's emeritus or whatever. You know, he's like Bill Priest. I can't see Bill Priest doing anything but working your basic seventy hour work week.

I mean, that's the.

Way he rolls.

But I just put the book out on Twitter, on LinkedIn, free cash flow and shareholder yield. It is a rite of passage. It's short.

It's not, you know, eight hundred.

Pages of Fibosi calculus. It's really short, really direct, and also somewhat controversial. I really want to point that that out.

But to have Bill.

Priest with us after Julian Emmanuel is what the show's about.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from seven to ten am Easter Listen on Apple car Play and Android Auto with a Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

Megan Robinson has no idea Who robbed Thomas is her Matchbox twenty and joins us some BMB perry by today. Your note clearly doesn't say six percent. We're here at higher yields. What events would it take to get a breakout? Really back to two thousand, two thousand and four yields.

What would be that cataclysmic event?

Good well, first of all, good morning, thanks for having me. I think that the scenario. I haven't read the report.

But.

It's Bloomberg surveillance we don't read.

I think that you know, we're looking a lot at the risks of potential tariffs, and I think that seeing a reacceleration of inflation if we see a spike in in break even yields as a result of new tariffs. But then additionally that causing the FED to either pause or resume a hiking cycle would cause even rise in rise in real yields. So I think that's really the bear, the bear case for next year. At B and P. We're not as severe as that, but I think we

I want to make some news.

A pause on Wednesday, please help, Not.

A pause on Wednesday. So we still think a twenty five basis point cut, but they set the stage for an extended pause into twenty twenty five. I do think that this would be cause a credit spread widening, but one that we would buy, whereas the other scenario you painted would likely be the start of a new bear market for credit if we did see rates that high.

US corporate high yield up eight point eight five percent year to day total return. US leverage loan indexes are the Bloomberg indexes in which we paid good money for eight point six y nine percent. Man, that's great returns in the high yield leverage loan market. Does that continue in twenty five?

Do you think so?

We don't think that you're going to duplicate that positive of returns, but we do think it's a carry year for credit. So I think that you have a couple of tailwinds that you're back. The first is still this yield story, So yields are high. We're forecasting the four to sixty five on the ten year next year. That means that yield demand, pension funds, insurance companies, some foreign buyers are still going to come into the credit market.

You sound like you're from Brown and Columbia. Nobody understands it.

What is a carry year carry so yield? I think you know spreads. We're forecasting just to go slightly wider ten basis points and investment grade to a level of eighty five yield. Take the yields, so clip the coupon.

You know.

Places in credit, like leverage loans where you have an elevated level of yields right now compared to high yield and IG we think are a great spot to be We also like long duration investment grade, so ten years and beyond, where you'll have this elevated yield and issuers will still be hesitant to cell supply with longer dated maturities. We think those those two spots are a great place to step into yield next year.

Know in your notes, I've read something that I don't think I've seen and I can't remember how long globally we like Europe to outperform in the US.

Why yes, So this is it does seem an out of consensus view. I think that in Europe we have slower growth obviously, but that will allow the ECB to continue to be dubbish and a lot of the bad news is priced into European credit spread, So we're trading a lot wider in Europe compared to the US, and then US were at all time tights and spreads, and then you have this risk of reacceleration, the FED potential has to pause. We think that's not priced danger.

Your economistcy inflation out there. I mean, you got a government in Germany Toast, a government in BMP Perry Baz, Paris and France sort of kind of like Toast. I got the shock or Christian Friedland in Canada yesterday going to a possible election early next year. I mean, with all that tumult, can we really give way to a new inflation regime?

I think it's I think it's certainly possible in the US. I think it will depend a lot on what we see happening with with with President Alex Trump's policies, and if we do get some of the tariffs that he's talked about, I think that could be certainly a catalyst for a reacceleration in inflation.

Sectors.

Are there sectors that screen well for you guys from a credit perspective these days?

So we like we do like taking some pro growth policy. We think that you know, less regulation next year does warrant stepping into some of those areas. But where where you can also avoid the tariff risk. So we like transportation and investment grade, and then in high yield. Our favorite sector is still cruise lines where you're you have low exposure.

What's your favorite cruise line, I mean size on a celebrity cruises.

Okay, so you have you have low exposure to lower income consumer where we have seen risk and it's a leisure it's a leisure sector. So if we do see tariffs, we can see that that sector is less vulnerable to to goods goods risks.

Some question of the day our airlines Investment Grade, Delta United. We've got Jeff Blues executive coming up here today, I believe.

Yeah, yep, so we have we have airlines in bo in both markets, but but in in investment grade also we have rail, so rail transportation a major part of the sector, and then a handful of airlines as well.

How about my old stomping arounds cable cable Yeah, so harder issued debt by the bolot. I made a small fortune.

With those guys.

So this is sector continue. I think we have to be a lot more selective, more selective industries what she said, despite despite the fact that IG spreads are very tight, that is a sector where we've seen more single name volatility. So that's a place we'd be cautious. Another place we'd be cautious is is in building products. I think there you see sort of a trifecta of risks in twenty twenty five immigration, So building products, home building, it's a

My chart of the year is the price recovery of the blended Bloomberg bark Lace Lehmann Index. I don't think anybody saw this coming, where we've really migrated from a horrific six standard deviation move up into a better place. Can you actually say price appreciation within bonds for the next twelve months.

We're not expecting that. So when we talk about coon, when we take about clipping coupons, exactly I think the story is you just want to protect your capital, and a good place to do that, we think is investment grade the long end leverage loans. But to find price appreciation, I think is much more challenging just giving the starting point for valuations.

I brought this up. I didn't even know how to do this on the Bloomberg. The munich key. Yeah you know.

Fred Corkoran taught me to Munich key on the Bloomberg with Charlie Gogelac. And the answer here is I brought up the Delta Airlines LaGuardia Airport Terminals CND redevelopment piece. By it, you get a five percent coupon. I don't have a price. I can't figure out how to read the screen. But you get to pick up your Uber closer to the gate than if you don't own this credit.

That's that's worth doing it.

Megan Robinson, thank you so much to BMP perie By on transportation and investment grade quality.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seven am Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty Joiningston.

William Priest identified with Epoch for Hears You Just hear Julian Emmanuel with Raves about.

The privilege of working with mister Priest years ago. In two thousand and.

Seven, Bill Priest released the definitive short read on free.

Cash flow in Shareholder Yield.

It's in English, it's short. DiCaprio was awesome in the movie Unbelievable. In two thousand and seven, Apple was five dollars a share, It's now two hundred and fifty dollars a share. The growth of Apple revenue iPhone, this and all that it was mostly Bill Priest, just growth the free cash flow.

Right, that's the truth.

They also had a lot of new products that took big market shares.

How do you determine good free cash flow in twenty twenty five from troubled free cash flow?

Well, it all starts with the allocation of free cash flow and the methodology thereof. So, for example, in any business that could be a lemonade stand, who don't left time go through the lemonades stand?

Example, But at the end of the day, you have to define it.

So free cash flow is the cash available for distribution to shareholders after all planned capital expenders and all cash taxes. Now, once you get that number, there's only five things you can do with it. And if you cannot earn an amount of money above your cost of capital. Let's say for the sake of argument, your cost of capital is eight, nine, ten percent, you have to earn more than that otherwise

I mean, Paul's to getting We're having a duke love fest, your folks, priest and Paul Paul jump in here. But the heart of the matter is Bill Priest was lonely when that book came out in seven.

Well, being a former corporate lender. Free cash flow is important because that's what pays me back. So are there companies. What's a company that in your career has been really good about managing their free cash flow?

Well, it comes and goes.

There are times when a company should be giving back the money because they don't have the reinvestment or the acquisition targets that make sense or it's fantastic.

For them to do acquire.

We we did the other side of this recently. We have what we call a capital reinvestment product where those companies who you can identify and the secret sauce there is this. We have data on thousands and thousands of companies and the trick is to look at the return on incremental capital what's called ROIC ROHIC, and look at that compared to the cost of capital, the WHACK weighted average cost of capital, the spread between rock and whack.

Okay, so we do that in the Bloomberg on the WACC screen. We're not going to turn this into a CFA lesson. But the bottom line, Bill pres is everyone listening and watching is living. MAG seven they didn't exist in two thousand and seven. You got let's say you got the eighth edition coming out your chapter on MAG seven, Free cash flow, WACC and ROC.

Can they sustain that?

Many of them? Can?

CAM don't know for sure all of them. The secret sauce though, is the substitute of bits for atoms. So let's take information it comes to you in the form of bits. Atoms would be the desk in front of me, this microphone. We're made of atoms. If you run a company and you can substitute technology in the form of a bit for labor which is a form of an atom, and hold your revenue.

Is constant, your margins go up.

And if you can substitute a bit think selling something over the internet as opposed to a physical store, and hold your revenues constant, your sales for dollar assets go up. So if you were to go back and just look at return on equity, if I can substitute technology for labor and physical assets and hold my revenues constant. Myriic goes through the roof, and you need every company should be focusing on that gap. And how do I substitute technology for labor and physical assets.

Are those returns on invested capital relative to the cost capital today enough to support this market? We've had two years of twenty percent returns.

Totally agree with you.

I think the market has a real valuation issue. We've had two back to back years of over twenty percent in the market, and I think that's very difficult. So the question is can you sustain the discount rate? Is a discount rate going to go up or down? It's going to be a struggle in my view. For when you think of when the Brilliant Wall fell in nineteen eighty nine, for over twenty years, we created the most efficient supply chain the world has ever known.

Now we wanted to go to Onshore.

We want security supply chains, not efficiency. You can't do that without inflation. You can't bring all that manufacturing capacity back.

Here without inflation.

That's going to be a burden for the new administration to deal with as well.

You've been around the block a few times. Bill, what do you make of this crypto stuff. Tom Keen is all over bitcoin.

I mean he's been day one on top of it.

What do you think, Well, I've always been suspicious and I've been wrong with regard to owning bitcoin. I've never thought of bitcoin as being money. So there's a really good guy you should get on your show sometime. Azuar Pissard EESWRPR a.

Very familiar with. He's been a huge supporter.

Okay, he's fantastic. He is the best guy in money in the.

Okay he went to Cornell on that Duke.

Yes, it's perfectly fine, perfectly fine, but money does three things.

To be money, you have to do three things.

Medium of exchange, you have a medium of exchange. Value has to be a way to measure value. And the problem the problem with money it is a unit of With bitcoin, it is a unit of account and it is a medium of exchange. But it is not a store value. That's the problem. And so you're not going to see trade, legal trade done much in anything other than dollars.

One of your epic portfolio is number one holding JP Morgan. How's mister diamond doing?

Is?

JP Morgan is an.

Entity showing good use a free cash flow in good use of shareholder yield.

Well, I would defer to my analyst to a large extent on that, but he probably is one of the great managers in the banking business, There's no question about that. And anyone that's owned his stock over the last ten twenty years very happy.

Are we dealing with monopsimistic tendencies in this country? Where are just doing a big net will roll up into large cap large cap large kip Ola Max seven, Olive Banking, dominance of JP Morgan and Bank of America and the rest.

Consolidation is always if has always been there. The question is does it is it value AD to the buyer? And if you can demonstrate value AD is probably going to continue. But we have lots of new companies being formed every year, so we're not without innovation.

Can you ask Priest how you and s got Belichick and.

Do you know, I'm happy with our coach.

I'm happy with it.

I Belichick going to five years and fifty million dollars or something like that. I kept going, Well, I think I think what's interesting is will he be able to relate to the players. That's a big, big difference relating to undergraduates and then.

Yeah, it's like when Bill Priest with as Julian Emmanuel, He's like, who is this tour?

Get one more question in here?

Bill?

Did you and your team change your investment outlook the day after the selection? Did anything change for you guys in terms of how you think about out asset allocation or investment opportunity?

No, we haven't changed anything yet.

It's all about finding the companies that are good capital allocators, and I think they will see us through good times and bad times.

Missus Keen email said, she goes, how come Bill, Bill Priest is so and chiseled.

What's a secret vitamin D three?

What do you do?

You're still working in seventy hour work week.

I wouldn't say it's seventy anymore, but it's a lot. I love the game. The game is. This is incredibly challenging.

It's a game fair for our listeners and viewers.

Yes, but you're gonna have to do your homework.

You're gonna have to do your homework when you get into the private equity private credit world. The one thing there is the mark the market problem. You're never sure what those marks are. And look, having been chairman of a number of mutual funds who also did do private placements. The accounting firms will never sign off evaluation. What they do is they sign off on the process that you use for valuation. So they may say yeah, so you they can't. They don't want to get sued from his valuations.

Smartself smart, Bill Priests, brilliant.

Thank you so much, folks out on Twitter, out on LinkedIn, Free cash Flow and shareholder Yield. DiCaprio will do the movie It's Looking two thousand and twenty seven for Bill Priest's classic Free cash Flow. Can't say enough about that effort.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at seventy Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal.

It is that time, the daily look at the front pages, the Lisa Mateo minute, Lisa's on the clock.

What do you have?

I have those outlet malls. They're drawing a lot more luxury brands. I thought this was interesting and I've seen Actually you seen this.

You did it on Black Friday.

I did.

It's the outlet malls because shoppers looking for bargains, right, but they still like the luxury goods, so more a headed to the outlet malls to get those designer shoes, clothing, handbags at more affordable prices. The Wall Street Journal says, even though food traffic still below pre pandemic levels, retailers are leasing more space at outlet shopping center so they're starting to grow. There's more than two hundred.

Of them in the US.

I didn't even realize that a lot of the more for this affordable luxury we're talking about coach Mark, Jacobs, Gucci, Prada. And what I noticed from going to these like Woodbury Commons or Jersey Shore outlets is that the longest lines are at these stores. I mean just wrapping around outside, so more people are doing it.

They're saying.

The reason why is because a lot of these luxury retailers are selling their excess products to places like TJ Max, and people are reals realizing, hey, you know what, I can afford this high end stuff.

The Economist was an article. I actually read every word of it, and I think they had Versace. I do not have the number in front of me, but I was stunned what percentage of Versace is on sale right now? Because it used to be they were never on sale ever ever, you know.

Right, sometimes it was so that they wouldn't like shred them or do something else.

They would rather do.

That than put it on sale. So that was something else.

Well, still a thing like when you go where they've packed.

The malls not you know what. I've been to the mall even during the holiday and it's not that packed.

But it's the.

Outlet malls that people are like flocking to it. It's crazy and it's interesting. Next time we have a luxury person, I'm got to ask them about this, about the outlet malls, luxury cent It's.

Michael Barber this almost every day, he's a luxury here. It is why Lewisviuton is struggling, but Arimez is not. Somewhere in here. This is the Economist magazine. There's you know how much of Versace's on sale? I was blown away. It's like a big deal. Next, what do you got go?

Since we're sticking with shoppers who love deals. No, we're not doing the drones. I still have not seen one in New Jersey. But sticking with the shoppers who love deals. So Business Insider says, who is the you know, the top downloaded app of twenty twenty four, and they say

Owned by PDD Holdings.

Particular, among the gen Z consumers eighteen to twenty four, they love it. They've been downloading it. The big problem though, is that president like Donald Trump, you know, threatening with the high tariffs on Chinese goods. So people are wondering are they going to start raising their prices to kind of offset that levy.

But this is like the big thing.

Thing where it's Chinese owned and we're worried that Temu Timu is gonna know what.

A checkbook is.

Not so much.

They haven't actually brought that up. That's that's true.

So has invested in millions to market to American shoppers. Three tu ads aired it during the Super Bowl. Oh you remember those?

Wow?

Yes, they did three they're like seven billion busters.

Yeah, exactly, it's.

Crazy to seven billion.

Okay, next, okay.

The world's busiest airline routes in twenty twenty four. This is a travel comeback for Asia. This is actually a report on Bloomberg Aviation data provider o a G. Seven of the world's ten busiest international routes are largely in Asia. This was taken from January to December of twenty twenty four, only included the round trip flights. The busiest international flight route was Hong Kong to Taipei six point eight million available seats. Then you had Cairo to Jetta of Saudi Arabia.

That was third place.

But it's like it's a mix. It's a mix of leisure, a mix of business destinations. So they're starting to see that. And if you want to look trans atlantic, the only place in that top ten was actually New York JFK to London Heathrow. But it just does show.

Well, see what I what I don't think we're seeing yet is just broader China to the US. I still think those you know, you don't you hear from the luxury folks that you're still not seeing the Chinese consumers coming here into the US and shopping. And I think part of that is because there's just not a lot of flights, you know, it's kind of a post pandemic thing.

I don't know.

And those fascinating yesterday with Stephen Trent of City Group, people's leading Delta but he's got Panama.

Yeah, this is.

Yep, you got one more?

I do?

I do?

Okay, so start January.

I say, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yes, is it the red one with the rock? No it is not.

I have to I actually fell asleep during the movie.

It's really bad, and.

I love the rock.

But this is about your other, your other favorite topic, people coming back to the office, right, So starting January second, A lot of companies are doing that five days a week. Everybody has to come in, including Amazon. But Amazon is running into a problem. They actually don't have enough space in the office for all these people to come back, So they're running into this problem. It was seen in this like internal memo. You have workers Atlanta, Houston, Nashville,

Out to like May.

That's what they're saying. So this is the problem they're having. It's actually not the first time when they actually announced the three day week coming back.

So just take me clear, just be clear. We're not hybrid, are we? We're back every day, aren't we.

We're that's a good question for you and I are here.

And I Truman hasn't missed a day like since the pandemic. I mean the kid came in every day.

Talker took a day off. I think it was after Lehman.

Okay, you know that.

Was like just twenty ten, is well, Lisa Mateo, thank you so much.

The newspapers.

This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast available on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live each weekday, seven to ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg terminal