John Wick’s Blowout Opening Lifts Lions Gate

frenzy around former President Donald Trump. We covered that a lot earlier, and while it kind of felt like today almost was like you were watching a bit of a streaming series, we did want to share with you a couple of stories Buyer Bloomberg Business Week team from the actual world of media and entertainment that you can find at Bloomberg dot com slash business Week. In fact, one of the stories is going to be in the upcoming new issue of Bloomberg Business Week out later this week.

One is on a streaming service at Linsgate is still looking to unload. Another about the writer strike that Maddie is fearful is booming and we'll disrupt her viewing habits. So let's get to Bloomberg News reporter Thomas Buckley. He's out there in Los Angeles joining us via zoom and right here in our studio is the editor of Bloomberg business Week, Joel Webber. So, Joe, let's can we start with lions Gate? Why not? All right? So I seen john Wick yet number four except that one. I'm ready

for it. It's not going to save the day. No, Well, we hope, you know, we live in Hope, and and this has become obviously a real hit and favorite in Hollywood. Was a bit of a sleeper and then it just continued to rack up more and more eyeballs. Um, what's at stake here for lions Gate? Though? Because um, maybe you've seen the recent Business Week cover Dungeons and Dragon cover story which overtook at the box office this weekend. John Wick? So what's at store for for Lionsgate? Who

really has has bet the house on john Wick? Well, let me tell you, well, I mean at first i'd be REMISAPPI didn't say that You're going to be absolutely loving john Wick four when you go see it. If you enjoyed one, two, and three up, can't wait? Yeah, exactly.

There are actually no plans for a sequel. When john Wick one came out, says tremendous feed To have gotten this far with the franchise is exactly right, and and John Wick has really moved into one of them, Lionsgate's largest franchises of late they will so you know, own the rights to the likes of Twilight and Hunger Games. And what's interesting, it's structupposing the strength of that film studio against some of the weakness in its streaming service operations.

And that's precisely why the company is seeking to demerge Wishes and Effects, say unwind, a merger that they created in twenty sixteen from the acquisition of Stars for the four point four billion dollars. The acquisition has not delivered for them. The combined market cab of the company now is around half that and so they're exactly and their feeling is once they unwind the two distinct businesses, investors see more value in each rather than the sum of

the parts. Why didn't streaming, I mean, come on, help me out here, Thomas. I mean, streaming supposed to be all the rage, and I know we're kind of getting some filtering of that, I feel like over the last year or so, because we do have so many different services, But why did it not work out? I mean, Stars was the home of an Outlander. Didn't we know that was kind of a huge as well, and some other things. Yeah,

but why didn't work out? So yeah, right to a nice sense, streaming was all the rage stillers all the rage. The issue is that investors really have shifted their focus from what used to be entirely subscribe the growth to now profitability with the rights of interest rates and seeing how a lot of these tech companies adapt to this new normal in streaming. There is an enormous cash burn

associated with the business. I mean, you saw, for example, the departure last year of the Disney chief executive officer Bob Chapec as a result of a one point five billion dollar loss in a single course run streaming. So I think that now the attention has turned to that side of the This is a little more investors a much more favoring, you know, solid studio operations that can be arms dealers, rather than prioritize shows for their own

streaming operations. Well, it seems like Lionsgate didn't exactly help the Stars case here, based on some comments that you got from a source who basically said that a John Wicks spinoff was pulled from the Stars lineup after Amazon and Comcast Peacocks streaming service offered lions Gate one hundred million dollars for the show. That seems tough. It seems

tough for Stars. And this is what's quite interesting. I mean, it's tough for Stars, but great for Lionsgate because I think that there when you have a real you know, equity story for the studio going forward, as they can farm out you know, very high value, high price properties like this to the highest bidder, that highest bidder is unlikely to be starts for any of its shows going forward because it starts, you know, relative to likes of Netflix is you know, under a fifth the size of Netflix,

and you know, fellow competitors, so I think that, you know, going forward, it is going to be tough of the Stars to compete. And I think that, you know, the people who run Stars have said that of their own volition as well. But it puts signs get in a great studio wherein they can you know, sell as I mentioned, to the highest bidder and and do very well from their existing franchises. Okay, so there's some other stuff happening in Hollywood, like a potential writer strike, and it's we've

seen that before, but it's been a little while. So what what the timeline look like here and what are the you know, the issues, because I think streaming comes up yet again in that whole conversation, right, yeah, absolutely, So. The last time we saw a significant right strike, as you mentioned, was probably in two thousand and seven, when the strike lasted about one hundred days, give or take, and it costs the LA economy, you know, anywhere between

two and three billion dollars. That's because all Hollywood productions shut down during a writer strike. I mean scripts have to be finast and reworked to your production. Obviously, that can't happen if all your writers are picketing the lines. At the moment, what's at stake is really in part of residuals from streaming. A number of writers feels like their conditions are necessarily as good as they were ten years ago, and the rise of streaming has really affected

them in that regard. And what's interesting is there is some parallel give them the two thousand and seven writers strike. The main point of contention there happened to be DVD residuals, and we're seeing the same sort of thing now. And now you said something it was like a technology interpretation. Please do you not remember those? Yeah? What does that mean? No?

Go ahead, No, it's just it's so interesting the DVD thing in comparison to what I was thinking about reading your story as someone who's I shouldn't bring up laser discs then either, huh. I guess I'll be like laughed out of the studio VHS is I mean, all of it. But it's so interesting because one of the things that the writers are thinking about is the performance of their shows and whether or not they should be getting a premium if their show gets a lot of clicks or

makes it into the Netflix top ten. As someone who works on our social team mainly, I would never want to be judged on the clicks because that can also be a bad thing if it doesn't go well. What are your sources saying about that? Yeah? Absolutely, And this is a fascinating thing, right, I mean I think that previously, writers who are writing for TV, I mean, when the shows are widely syndicated around the world, you know they

would benefit from that very consistent income and cold plan. Accordingly, now, I think you know, if a writer is paid upfront for a show and it happens to then break into the top ten, and that's very limited upside for them because the performance based bonus is that much smaller than it is to say, by comparison a big film released in theaters and how well that does at the box office.

I think a lot of them are thinking, we'll look, we're seeing our shows breaking in the top ten, racking up, you know, hundreds of millions of hours worth of viewing, and we're not being compensated fairly for it. So what are the goals that the Writer's Guild is seeking out for?

So basically they are working under a current contract that expires on May first, and so they've sat down now with the studios and promot to understand, you know, perhaps that loggerheads not making much progress yet, but what they're seeking is a number of assurances, certainly as regards to residual compensation, so that they're better paid for that shows going forward. You know, it does feel like, you know, we constantly see this as things change, especially in terms

of how we consume content. Thomas is that, you know, it's got to kind of catch up right with the players in it so that they are just like compensated. I'm curious what outside observers are saying that do they have a good point that it makes sense because things are changing exactly it is changing. I think that, you know, it's it's interesting because as I think about this story,

it can sometimes feel a bit like inside Baseball. But the truth is there are some real world, you know, ramifications for us of you as I mean, certainly during the last writer strike you had shows from The Simpsons, the Desperate Housewives that all had to make do with far shorter seasons because Hollywood just ground to a halt. So but you know, even though it might feel like inside Baseball at times, we will be affected as fans of these shows if they don't find a resolution in

the coming weeks. What do you think the potential impact of that is going to look like? In which specific shows do that? Don't worry like watching things Maddie's terrified? Specifically? Can we I'm sorry, let's just up and final Succession right, because it's already done and that's the that's the only thing that I live and die for. But what are what are the other ones in production right now that

we need to worry about? And what's the timeline? Like let me let me read that thine back to you every US movie and TV show risk stopping as writer strike clothes like, truly, this is an existential one, right, Thomas, Exactly, It's it's pretty pervasive. Um. What I will say is that you know, hopefully what happens in the situations and they can't find a resolution and people do go on strike. You know, the risk are very very high profile shows,

you know, being outright canceled. It's probably quite low. I think that what we saw the last write to strike is that you know, the shows that work canceled are probably you know, shows that the studios weren't necessarily that bent on renewing anyway. So there is a comfort there. And also put any fan of reality TV out there, you know that a genre doesn't necessarily to you know,

that much writing at all. If any I think, you know, they their appetites will be satiated and the thank god, yeah, I hope you like reruns though it could be a little bit right like and remember last time, the part of the joy was like, you know, people took a little break, and I remember more than a few actors who looked a little different when they came back. There was the continuity folks were like, wait, wait, wait, wait

a minute, we got a problem here. Um, okay, So timeline May first, exactly, So that's when the contract expires. And so currently negotiations being had between the two parties. And I hope in part resolution before May first. All right, And and are you hearing anything moving on that front at the moment, I'm not hearing a lot of resolution. I'm hearing of our talks and that and that the talks are a little bit more tense than usual. How would you compare the intensity of the talks to previous

writer strikes. I would say that it's probably the most tensible it's been since two thousand and seven. I know certainly that a number of agencias and studios are really preparing themselves for potential strikes. So that means, you know, stockpiling scripts and the like to make sure that there isn't that dramatic a close down if a strike were to occur. I think that the view from the top of these places is that, you know, if not fifty fifty,

then that probably is going to be a strike. It's probably more fifty one forty nine in favor of a strike. At the minutes Okay. So one of the things that I'm just remembering is actually the last time this happened, there was that surge in reality TV shows, which you mentioned because you don't need a screenplay for reality TV. So is there is there some speculation or talk that between I don't know, like TikTok on TV or Reality TV like new versions of reality TV? Are we going

to see any of that? Like what happens? Like, you know, how quickly do they do they dust off that playbook? Yeah? They can absolutely default to that. Um. I don't know about you guys. Are certainly myself during the pandemic, I watch way too much. Reality TV got into the Kardashians in a big way. Also below Deck, I don't know

really you've seen that show, but it's fair exactly. So these are shows that are, you know, relatively inexpensive to shoot versus you know, a scripted show certainly less expensive to script. So I think that that's something that could definitely take off in a big way all over again if we were to see us right, that's right, So this could fuel some extra creativity on the reality TV

show the word development process. That's exciting. Blow Deck just hitting ten years by the way, that is a must watch, all the variations. Hey, listen, we just have a nitor a minute and a half left here while we have you, and forgive me, I'm going to go a little bit. It is a week where we get a lot on the labor market. Are things are there still? What is the labor market? You know on the West Coast when it comes to filming and doing stuff within the content world?

I think you know you saw the huge wave of layoffs originating in Silicon Valleys as the West Coast is concerned. I mean, Hollywood is certainly catching up to that very quickly. The story at the moment this most closely followed is the number of layoffs that occurring at Disney right, and they're cutting a workforce for about seven thousand people. That doesn't include so much you know, front of health employees at their parks, but certainly a number of back office

employees losing their jobs. Sad time for the company in that regard, But everybody is seeking to streamline as fast as possible to prepare for a new normal, new normal new you heard it there. I don't even know what that is. Reality TV, Bring it on, Bring it on. Love is blind. Um, We're gonna leave it there. Thomas, thank you so much, So appreciate two great stories. Thomas Buckley, reporter at Bloomberg News via Zoom from Los Angeles, History on Stars and lines Gate. You can catch that in

the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week. You'll be out on newsstands on Thursday. It's already on the Bloomberg and you can find it up Bloomberg dot com slash business Week. Jill Webber, the editor Bloomberg Business Week, your favorite indulgence when it comes to streaming. Oh man, uh, Bluie what yeah, exactly. We don't have a kid, all right, Disney Plus, what would you watch? Oh, it's it's Hanny Time. Very you know, it's like less than ten minutes and so wholesome, like

you know, Bluie Blue. I'll give it a try tonight. We'll be looking it up. Don't regret. I always look at him differently then, you know these facets. Um, Joel, thank you so much, really appreciate it. As we said, the new shop Bloomberg Business Week coming out later on. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app,

or watch us live on YouTube. We do want to also bring you one of the most read stories. I think it is the most read on the Bloomberger has been for most of the day. It's about what we often say is the most listened to voice on Wall Street, Jamie Diamond. He came out with his annual letter to shareholders. So let's get into it with Sally Bakewell. She joins Maddy and me. She is Bloomberg News America's finance team leader.

She's here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. Sally, we know it when Jamie Diamond talks, when he goes to Washington, when he writes something, we all go over it with a fine tooth comb. Right, yes, correct, we do. So what did we get from him today? I think one of the big takeaways here is his perspective on regulation and how it caused potentially a lot of what happened with Silicon Valley Bank. So, by the way, let's note he has long ray old against post financial crisis regulation.

He's called it complex, he's said it harms the country. He's been pretty vociferous about it. Is he now a fanboy of it? No, he's so that would be fantastical,

fantastically interesting. So here today in his annual letter that is passed out, as you say, by bankers, traders, politicians alike, he said that post crisis regulation that actually encouraged banks to load up on a lot of these US Treasury bonds that ultimately sort of became their downfall because they saw their value eroded as interest rates rose, and they

weren't really prepared or hedged for that. And so we have banks like Silicon Value Bank and Signature Bank that were left with these sort of big holes in the balance sheet and that ultimately led to their demise. And he was also kind of like everyone it was at fault here, right, Like, it's the banks themselves, it's regulation, it's the authorities. What was his biggest concern? Would you say on what authorities could do in term of overreaction?

Do we have any specifics from him about his biggest worry? There? Great question. He very much cautioned against any kind of knee jerk reaction in regulation, and I guess he also doesn't want to see a repeat of the financial crisis, where probably in his view, that's exactly what they did, and they proposed all these, in his view again unnecessary rules that have made things a bit difficult for the banking industry, even though it has also protected them in

some regard. So he just said, any regulation that we have now and there is likely to be some because we know that Biden is looking at increasing scrutiny on banks with one hundred billion to two hundred and fifty billion assets, that we are likely to see heightened and tough and regulation. He said, it should just be a real the right mix of rules that take into consideration things like the banks and should deposits, their accounting practices,

their deposit concentration. I think he just doesn't want to sort of blunt whackamole like tools. It's kind of interesting considering we know we went and met right with Trojury Secretary Janet Yell, and you know he is a voice that government officials certainly reach out to. I know there was a lot of speculation. I mean, is he gunning

for a position in Washington, perhaps next Treasury secretary? I mean, is that's something I don't know a great question, because he asked it right, Yeah, and he did sort of reprise his role of the from the past financial crisis. By the way, he is the only CEO still in command since they've just press remarkable. Yeah, and he has you know, he has been positioning himself as a kind of elder statesman like character on the banking and sort

of geopolitical and other spheres and stages. So who can say what's on his mind, but he doesn't shy away from being in these roles. And indeed he and Yellen kind of conjured up this plan which Diamonds sort of took the lead on to basically rescue one of their smaller peers in First Republic when he sort of galvanized eleven banks to all throw in thirty billion dollars of rescue money to that bank. Well, our final two minutes with you on this, there were some non banking things

that he talked about. He's talked about AI before, but he brought it up again, right. He also brought up the importance of free market capitalism. What were the things outside of the banking turmoil that he brought up that

stood out to you as critical? Yeah, so I think CHAT GBT AIM were two things that they said that they Jamie Diamond said that they are you know, looking at and using I had to say, because every CEO is now saying but go ahead, No exactly that, but you know, finding ways to use it to fight against fraud. For example, energy security has been a topic that he talks about a lot, and you know, improving investments into renewable energy to sort of improve energy security was another one.

He also brought up succession and pointed to you know, the number of successor candidates that are well known to the board and well known to the community that could replace him if he ever, one day and it's not looking likely, decided to not be Jai JP Morgan see

you anymore? Is there a bottom line takeaway? Because you guys, you know you and your team, you know, covering the banks on Wall Street, covering the finance industry at an interesting time another time, if you will, how do you kind of put what Jamie Diamond said against the whole industry and how you're thinking about it and thinking about stories and so on and so forth. Definitely, regulation, the unintended consequences they're in I think is the big takeaway

from Jiffy Diamond's letters. Stay all right, it's an interesting Carol though. We were just talking about how usually when a Jamie Diamond shareholder letter comes out, that's like the big news for a large part of our shows. And look at us today. Well, and it's interesting because it really did stay atop the most read I'm just looking now it's number two in the past eight hours, and

now we have how the markets ended. But it's it's been a funny day right where our focus has been so much on what's been going on in Lower Manhattan, not because the financial sector are the exchange is down there, but because of the former president. Thank you for breaking it down, because we know it's something that our audience really cares about. Sally Bakewell, she's Bloomberg News America's Finance team leader. Joining us here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. Something that we want to get to and is certainly front and center this week, and that is what's going on with the US workforce because we get a lot of data points

this week. Yep, we got the job the Jolts Report today, I should say, which, as our Bloomberg Economics team noted, shows the labor market is unambiguously cooling. And then we've got jobs numbers on Friday as well. Right, A lot, a lot to unpack here with more thoughts, especially when it comes to skills and jobs at the high end of the labor market. We're going to speak with Amelia Tiagi. She is the co founder and CEO of the executive talent consultant Business Talent Group, which is owned by the

executive search and consulting firm Hydrick and Struggles. Amelia is with us on Zoom from Rome. Amelia, thank you so much for joining us. Just for anyone who may not be familiar, can you back up and tell us a little bit about your firm and your clients as well. Sure, I'm happy too. It's good to be here, and I should say I am visiting Rome. I'm actually based in America. I'm the co founder and CEO of Business Talent group, a Hydrick and Struggles company. We provide on demand talent,

interim executives, management consultants, and experts to companies. We have a network of over twenty thousand and we're the leader of the US. So what are you seeing in terms of demand for your executives? I mean, give us an idea, give us some color if you will, how it compares to perhaps a year ago or before that, industries where there's lots of demand or not geography in terms of variations. Sure, so we do a study every year tracking the trends

that we're seeing across the market. We literally study thousands of inquiries that we hear from all sectors of the economy. We're seeing broad based growth and we're actually seeing that as the economy gets choppier and there's more uncertainty out there, that folks are really turning to on demand solutions because they want that kind of flexibility. They still need to get things done and they need it fast, but they don't want to necessarily make long term commitments. The big story, though,

is the rise in demand for the interim cfo. We saw demand for an interim CFOs double over the last year. So what is that of that because because typically a CFO, and if anything I've learned, you know, coming off the financial crisis, the Great Financial Crisis, is that CFOs were crucial to keeping companies running, making sure those balance sheets are sound and solid and companies had money, same thing during the pandemic. Right, we know that this is an

important position. So tell us about why this trend is happening. You're exactly right. It's a critical position, and I think it's getting harder. I think that's what's happening is that the CFOs office is under more pressure, and as there's more uncertainty in the economy, we're seeing turnover in the role.

There's some burnout among CFOs. There's a lot of companies also that are experiencing changes in what the skills are that they truly need in that role as there shifts in the economy, so people pull in an interim CFO. Often when the old CFO goes out, you need somebody in really fast. You can't have any time with that

role vacant, especially in this kind of economy. That's so interesting to me because I've always thought of the type of person to pursue a CFO role as someone who would not want to quit when things get tough and when the economy gets a little bit tighter. So I guess I just I would not have anticipated that being the type of role where you see a lot of turnover, just given some macroeconomic headwinds. Some of what we're seeing

is some skill realignment out there. You know. I think the traditional skills of a CFO just sort of those financial skills, oh, I think a ticket to play, and the CFO is increasingly being asked to wear a number of additional hats, especially in this kind of environment. In some situations they're being asked to raise money and others they're asked to manage cash in a whole different way. They're asked to help with restructuring. They may even be

asked to assist with big IT projects. It's a lot of hats, and with that skill alignment, I think you're finding different changes going on in the role. We also find the other trend that's happening behind the scenes. We work with a network of over twenty thousand professionals who want to be independent. They've chosen a different path. They don't want to be in a traditional role for five or ten or twenty years. They like going from project to project. There's a lot of people who enjoy that

and who are seeking it out. And we're seeing a growth on the talent side as well, and changes in what senior level talent really want. Amelia, give us some insight into the pay that these individuals typically get. And I'm curious, especially if the CFOs in particular, as you're talking about temporary or otherwise, you know, if they're in demand, you know, how does that work? Is it per project?

Is it hourly? Are the individuals ultimately in the driver's seat right now because CFO positions and finance professionals are in demand. As you are saying, well, it's a great question, and I do think they're in the driver's seat. They get to pick and choose which projects they work on, and so they work on what they think is most exciting, and they get to pick the people that they want to work on work with. Typically pay a structures pay

as you go and that offers companies total flexibility. So maybe an engagement's going to last for a couple of months, maybe it gets extended last six to eight months, but you just pay as you go. We tend to see a day rate is most common, but they're a variations on that. Does it change the demographic too for the CFO, I wonder if you're seeing more millennial gen zers getting in on a top dog role like the CFO spot. Well, that's certainly where the trend is going to go over time.

We see a lot of mid career professionals in this today, but definitely where the younger folks are coming over time. We also see where the trend is going, is that a lot of the Gen Z and millennials want to work independently. I think they're pushing me on even faster than the gen xers did. Well, it's interesting you brought up the idea of you know, these professionals want some balance in their life as well. I want to just

full transparency. Your mom is Senator Elizabeth Warren, and she is someone who you know, talks about things like pay and equity in the system, often talking about executives in the C suite. Are you finding that for younger finance professionals that it isn't so much about pay, but it is about that balance and that's what that they're prioritizing. And just got about thirty seconds left. I think people

choose to be independent for a range of reasons. Professional control is the number one reason we hear, although we also hear that they're satisfied financially. All right, We're gonna leave it on that note. Listen, we so appreciate getting some time with you and hearing about your survey. Amelia Tayugi she is, as we said, co founder and chief executive officer Business Talent Group, joining us via zoom as she said visiting Rome. She is based in the United States.

If you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube. We're gonna get a read on how consumers are doing when it comes to what they're being paid. On Friday, that's what the latest read on average hourly earnings. It's all part

of the monthly jobs report. Luckily for us, we've got a next guest who knows a lot about that as well, joining us on that and on a campaign to create a more inclusive and equitable workspace for members of the black community. We welcome see Eaglestone Bracy. She's the President of Unilever USA, CEO of Unilever Personal Care North America, and she's with us on the phone from Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. See. Is so nice to have you here.

We want to get into your campaign. It's really fascinating. We want to share it with our audience. First up, though, we'd be your miss not to ask you, as a head of Unilever Unilever USA, to ask you about today's environment when it comes to consumer spending, inflationary pressures, you know, finding workers. How how do you see it? How would you describe it? Hi? First, thank you for having me on your show. It's great to be here and I'm excited to talk about our initiative. Yeah, I do. I

am the president of Unilever. Unilever is quite a big global company. We're over sixty billion dollars in euro we compete in over one hundred and fifty markets and you know, times continue to be dynamic. We're always optimistic about our growth, health and the potential for the future. But one thing we've learned during COVID times you cannot things don't stay still, always changing, and we're excited that we have the portfolio that helps us win in all sorts of times, the

good times and the bad times. So when you say to leave this business, no, it's a massive company and I've in the past talked with the CEO of all of it and you guys, you know is certainly one of the benefits during the pandemic when people were buying

so much stuff. But let me ask you when you say dynamic, do you feel like more optimistic about the future in terms of the economic global economic outlook or are a little bit more cautious Again, I think at Unilever we have such a breath in our portfolio that we have the right products and the right price points to across the times. Make sure we have what people need, and that's what we're really focused on, is making sure

we meet people's needs. So I continue to be confident in our business and our growth prospects consistent with what you know we have previously discussed and share well. See one of the ways that you are working to meet customer needs is through campaigns like this one you've just launched hashtag black hair is professional. I want to get into the details of the campaign itself, but for folks who just may not be familiar with the depth and

breadth of this issue. Can you talk to me about the research that you've done on Black women in natural hairstyles, not just at the workplace, but in general facing discrimination on that. Yeah. Absolutely, we're here also to talk about the crowneck. But it's really interesting. One of the brands that we have a Unilever is Dove, and what we are committed to is beauty inclusivity. What does that mean? That means we all have the right to feel confident

and be seen as beautiful. What happens we have narrow Eurocentric beauty standards that make most of us not feel beautiful. In fact, seventy three percent of women today say that they don't feel beautiful, and we know that's particularly true

among Black women and underrepresented populations. And what we've seen happen in the workplace and in schools is that people are turned away because of the way black women and black kids our hair grows out of our head, textured hairstyles, locks, bantu knots, etc. It's characterized as untidy or unkept, and so they're grooming policies that are established that say you have to not have braids, or you can't have locks to go to school, or you'll be expelled, or corporate

grooming policies important in this case, will give you those policies to say those hairstyles are not acceptable. And we call that race based hacrimination because to change your hair from the way it naturally grows out of your head and a style that is reflective of your culture means that you're not valuing and respectful of diversity. And that's

why we call that race based hair discrimination. So because of that, what Dove champion back in twenty nineteen was something called the Crown Coalition and the Crown Act, and Crown is an acronym that stands for creating a respectful

and open world for natural hair. And we started at first in California July third, twenty nineteen, Governor k Newsom signed it, and today we have over twenty states that have passed the Crown Act or similar legislation and over forty municipalities, you know, a fancy word for cities, and so we've made incredible progress. And you asked about the research what helped us see how prevalent this issue is

of race based hair discrimination. We learned at the time in twenty nineteen, eighty percent of black women believe that we have to change our hair to fit in in the workplace. But what we have done recently is a new study and what we show is we've made progress. It's no longer eighty percent, it's fifty seven percent, but that's still too high and the issue still persist. So we are committed to championing this legislation. We're not going

to stop until all fifty states have passed. But what we've done we're really excited about is this partnership with Dove and LinkedIn with Dove as a co founder of the Crown Coalition that champions the Crown Act. Essie, what's the direct correlation between those states that have passed the legislation and improvement in those statistics where it is easier for individuals from the black community. I think the impact the Crown Act has had is actually beyond the states

that have passed. We hear all the time how what a difference it makes in the states that have passed. But also what we have done is I'm going to put in air quotes help normalize textured hair, and that's what this program we're doing with LinkedIn is about black hair is professional. That's the campaign is all about establishing. What is establishing what we've been fighting against is that

black hair has not been considered professional. It's been unkept, untidy, not for the workplace, and trying to drive awareness in that. What we see in that fifty seven percent number that I shared is that more and more it is becoming normalized. You are seeing more people in the workplace, black women in the workplace wearing textured hair styles, but still not enough and what we see I'm sorry, go ahead, no, I guess I want to get to because we've all

got a couple of minutes or so left here. Is it educating people understanding you know, maybe you know their unconscious biaseness, are not understanding you know, different people in our society or different cultures of black culture, you know in particular, is that what it comes down to his education? Do you think it comes down to education? And it comes down to allowing education around what is professional and telling stories and seeing people more and more with textured

hairstyle so in professional settings. And because black women think that we have to change our hair. In the past, you saw less than that and like approximately two thirds of Black women change their hair for a job interview because we believe we have to. So that is a part of the education not doing that and changing corporate mindsets to allow that to happen. No, Black women with textured hair two times as likely to experience microaggressions in

the workplace. You know, it's really acute. Among young women, let's call it twenty five to thirty four more of them experience these issues. Forty four Black women under thirty four feel pressured to have a headshot with straight hair.

So it is about education, and it's about creating an environment where black women feel confident to wear their textured hairstyles, which in turn creates more education and association with the image of what it takes to be professional, which of course is here is professional, which is a part of the LinkedIn campaign. Absolutely, and thank you for walking us

through that. Se I wonder if you can talk about the federal efforts on the Crown Act, because if I'm understanding correctly, the Crown Act has faced challenges in getting through at the federal level. Can you talk about just I imagine that's very frustrating, and we've just got about forty seconds left. Yeah, and forty seconds. I would say, hey, we have not been successful with federal legislation, and we're committed to getting federal legislation and it's through a bipartisan movement.

But in the meantime, we continue to go state by state to make sure we have coverage there. So it's our intention and we continue to make progress despite not achieving our ambition in twenty twenty two. Well, we wish you well with those efforts and progress. See Eaglestone Bracy joining us on the phone from Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey. She's the president of Unilever USA and CEO of Unilever Personal Care North America. You're listening to the Bloomberg Business

Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, jose Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty stock market pulfing a four day rally. We did see banks coming under some pressure. I'm so glad that we have our next guest because he's got a technical take on the markets, always looks at things really smart

and deeply. Riddy Watts is back with US chief investment strategists at O'Neil Global Advisors. Lucky for us, he's here in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's studio. It is so nice to have you here in studio. How are you? I'm great and it's nice to see you in person. Now at the pandemic is wound down and see a familiar face. Well, can I say it's normal on a day where we were just saying before we got going that you know, it feels like we watch a lot of reality TV.

But this isn't you know reality TV. This is the real world and it's it's interesting. Things keep coming at as politically, economically, monetary, policy wise. How do you make sense of it? Someone who looks at things technically, how do you think about all of these issues that continue to come at us? I think, unfortunately, the extreme bipartisan nature of the political system right now is going to continue, at least for the foreseeable future. That something investors have

to deal with. Right now, we have a mixed government. Obviously, historically the market actually does okay under that scenario, and so I really try to stay focused on what's going on with the economy, and what's going on with companies. So not super concerned about the Trump situation, even though markets like predictability, right and this is a little bit unpredictable.

I think the market's much more concerned about what's going on with the economy, what's going on with the FED, what's going on with the financial system, and you know, don't want to digress too far into into politics, but I don't think that's what's driving stocks right now, all right, So tell us what you think is driving stocks at a year where, like I said, we just went through I don't know whether to call it a bank crisis, but we did have the collapse of three banks here

in the United States. We're continuing to watch to see if there's other shoes that drop, whether it's a commercial real estate or what have you. What does this market show you tell you about maybe what's to come. I think the market's focused on three things right now. It's focused on what the Fed's going to do. And we should note that the odds of another rating crease in May has actually fallen to forty percent, So now the market is not expecting another rating crease. The market's right

on this. I think it's very tough to say. I think it's I think it is kind of fifty fifty. Not not to dodge the question, but I think it's kind of up in the air. But I think it's clear that we are probably getting near the end of the FED tightening cycle. I do think that is because of the volatility we're seeing in treasuries. Does it look what's the indication that tells you that, or is it because of what we're hearing from the FED. I think it's a couple of things. I think inflation is starting

to slow down. Okay, I think the economy is starting to slow down. I think the FED has done an awful lot in a very short period of time, and at some point I think they're going to want to pause and see how that plays through the system. I think importantly, what is going on with the banks and the real world is very significant. There is a credit

contraction going on. Remember, small banks make about forty percent of the loans in the US, though in some areas like commercial real estate, they make closer to seventy and so that contraction of small business loans is going to have a big impact on the economy. That's just starting. The Fed's aware of that. I think they're gonna want

to see how that plays out. But you're a technicals guy as well, So when you hear these big news events like the banking crisis, quote unquote, like the OPEC production cuts, do you weigh those heavily on how you're thinking about markets? I do, I would say technically. A couple things to say. First is, I'd say the top thing for the market, it's been a very narrow market. So if you look at the qqqs, which represent the nastic one hundred, right, they're up about twenty percent year

to date. The equal weighted SNP is only up about two So it's been a very narrow market. The market has not been as strong as we haven't seen value either on its right correct, and the market does not look as strong as it appears on the surface. That's the first point. The second point is once you do get though to the end of the FED tightening cycle, and we can debate right now whether we've already seen the peak in ten year yields, they've pulled back a lot.

They've gone from basically four twenty five to three thirty five today at the close that's a huge drop once ten year yields peak. That's good for growth stocks and long duration assets. And one of the things we're seeing happen in the market over the last six weeks or so is a shift away from cyclicality and back into growth.

So I do think we could be in a situation where at the end of the year, maybe the economy is not quite as good as it is right now, but the FED tightening cycle has ended, bond yields have come down, and people are feeling better about stock. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. I mean we've been now a two year easily back below four percent three point eight two to be exact. M Randy Having said that, do you think recession? Did you say recession? I didn't say recession.

I like how you how you set that up. I do think we're looking at a slower economy. I do think at some form of recession is likely. But let's remember stocks normally bottom during the recession and start going up. They take a lot of the pain in front of the recession because they're a discounting mechanize that already We've done an awful lot of damage in the market over the last year, so I mean the SMP is down

what roughly nine ten percent over the last year here. Um. I think the thing everyone's really focused on in that sense is are we going to go back and retest that October loow? The October loow was a thirty four ninety one. We've done some touch and go there, We've we've gone down to around thirty seven sixty four was the December low. UM. I don't know if we have to go all the way back and retest that October low.

Right now, the market's been in kind of a trading range, and that trading range is being driven by what's going on with the FED. And then the next thing to occur is going to be earning season. And I do have a feeling that this earning season, which starts on April fourteenth with the big banks reporting, though I will note the big banks should actually be okay because they're going to have an awful lot of deposit inflows, so I think those quarters may actually be kind of positive.

But I think as we moved through earning season and we start to listen to some of the industrials and some of the consumer stocks, I do think estimates are going to come down they've already started to come down. Bloomberg itself in your intelligence Bureau is looking for minus two percent earnings growth for Q one. Used to be positive, now it's coming down. So I do think the one other negative the market has to kind of adjust to is that earnings have to get reset for the new

reality on the economy. I have to say that one of the conversations I think is smart to have about our error right now is just this reset post pandemic. Right, we had a normal economy, we had a pandemic. We had an incredible amount of stimulus that came into on a global basis, right, and then we're trying to figure out work from home, We're trying to figure out real estate needs, We're trying to figure out a lot of things that got impacted by the pandemic and kind of

what the reality is. And that's the same thing when it comes to valuations or earnings expectations, and there's do you know what I'm saying, Like it's just kind of a big macrowth think or rethink about kind of what is our world supposed to be post pandemic now? Is it like what it used to be pre pandemic or is it something different? So I think that's well said. And are we going back to a slower growth rate

that we were kind of in pre pandemic? So, in other words, as we come off that sugar high of the trillions of dollars that got pumped into the economy and that place through, as we move through that and we go through this tightening cycle, does that mean like coming out of it, we're actually going to have a pretty slow growth environment again for company earnings, company revenues GDP and two percent inflation? Is that target? That's something

that we talk about a lot, Maddie. Yeah, yeah, And I'm not sure we're going to get all the way back to two percent. I think we probably won't. I do think that the reverse in globalization and on shoring, etc. Is going to lead to kind of a higher inflation rate going forward as we do more manufacturing et cetera. Here, but I think it can be lower than where it was. Remember PC was four point six in the last print. I think that's coming down. I think rates are going

to stabilize. So while I think the near term is going to be very very bumpy, especially as we go through earning season, I think at the end of the year, we could be looking at a much much better picture for stocks. Yeah, I wonder if we just look at today though, I mean I wondered to what extent it was technically driven a little bit as the SMP drops right below a range, But we also have really weak volume.

What does that indicate to you? I would say if you look inside those numbers, industrial stocks had a pretty tough day to day. So I think we're continuing to see elements of cyclicality in the market get sold off and people moving back towards growth. So I think I think we aren't a trading range. I think they're waiting to see what the FED does next and what happens with this earning season. But I think there is a rotation back towards more long duration assets and growth stock.

It was pretty remarkable, was it a couple of weeks ago, like pulling in a name like microso after something like these names have really rallied. So add it all up. Strategy, What do we do in this environment? I think right now you still have to be you still have to be cautious. I do want to get through this earning season. I do want to see what the FED does next. I do think, however, though, that this is the time

to start to slowly accumulate growth stocks. I think the markets headed towards growth stocks, and I think by the end of the year you're gonna be happy on them. I have to ask you this, do you trust treasuries? Here we thought the ultimate trust investment vehicle and then to see the problems and obviously we're in these interesting times where you saw a FED that very quickly raised rates. It was a big change within the last twelve months.

Are you comfortable with what happened in the exposure? I think when you were buying treasuries when they were yielding on the ten year seventy five bases points, you had to be asking yourself what you were doing. Now out they're yielding three thirty five. I feel much better about them. And I do think as the economy slows, diven, end paying stocks and higher yielding assets are going to start to do better. So I think it's an okay bet right now? Okay? And just in terms of what happened

to the banks, just bad management. I mean you've got a head indus rate risk, right, I mean, that's that's what happened, and they had a mismatch in their and their assets and the reliabilities, and so I don't think people can be surprised when you go through the fastest bet tightening cycle ever. Let that work backs. All right, We unfortunately have to leave it there can thank you so much, really appreciate it. We don't leave yet, all right.

That's Randy Watts, chief investment Strates at O'Neil Global Advisors. Here her Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Avail Little Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live week afternoons from three to six Easttarning on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg German of Them