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dot Com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. We know we are expected to hear from President Biden in a little bit about a couple of hours less than two hours actually uh, and that his goal is at all American adults to be eligible for a coronavirus vaccine by April nineteen, two weeks earlier than he previous than his previous goal.

He's on a mission to him, Yeah, he is. The President Will also announced that one hundred and fifty million doses of vaccine were administered within his first seventy five days in office. That's keeping pace with his accelerated goal of getting two hundred million shots into arms by his one hundred day in the office. Uh. Earlier in the show, just a few minutes ago, I said that there was a hundred and seventy five million. Got my numbers mixed up there, but we know that he's expected to announce

one hundred and fifty million doses ahead of schedule. That's kind of where he's at. Hey, let's get into it with Dr William Hazeltine. He is chairman and president of Access Health International, to nonprofit think tank. It's on a mission as well to improve access to high quality and affordable health care for people everywhere. He's also got several books at including a new one called Variance, the Shape Shifting Challenge of COVID Night Team. He joins us on

the phone on this Tuesday, joining us from Connecticut. Dr Hazeltine, so nice to have you back with us. How are you. I'm very well, Thank you. It's a beautiful day here. It is too here in New York, and it feels good. It feels like spring. It feels like we're making progress. How do you see it as you see the vaccine rollout, specifically here in the United States, it's a very complicated picture in the United States. Some places are doing extremely well.

Other police places are doing badly. Some places the variants are surging, in other places they're almost not detectable. Uh. And it's complicated with the vaccines because some places where the vaccine that the disease is surging, for example in Michigan, have a pretty good vaccine record. So it's a very complicated picture. And I think there's, uh, there's a lot

of hope, but there's some cause for concerns. So why do you think that's happening in places like Michigan right now that are actually doing relatively well when it comes to the roll out of the vaccine, but still seeing surges. I think that it's still pretty cold up there, not like it is, and people are going staying inside, and they're not following the same careful behavior they did before.

One thing we now know is that restaurants and bars are really dangerous because you're with a lot of people and you don't have your mask on. If you're drinking, can't drink through your mask, you can't eat through your mask. And so it's not too much being outside of crowds is being inside and I think that's what could be driving in now that isn't the only thing that drives it, because we're all surprised last summer when we saw this enormous bump in the summer which came from people missing.

But then when it gets too hot, people stay inside to stay cool. So it's really our gregarious nature trying to get together, loving to be together, sharing foods, sharing conversation, which is a big problem for this disease. We know a lot more about transmission than we did before. It really gets transmitted by aerosol, small particles that hang in the air sometimes for quite a while, and these new variants,

some of them are much more infectious. So um, a lot more particles are in the air, and each one of those particles is more likely to cause containing. So those are all factors. But the vaccines are the positive side. And uh, it's, as I say, quite a mixed picture right now. Listen, we love talking to you. You know, you founded Human genome Sciences. You you were founder of Harvard Medical Schools HIV and AIDS research departments. You understand

this world better than most and so do you. Foresee, doctor Haseltine, that we get to a point where it's just like the flu and we take a vaccine and we go on our merry way. Or is this something different? Well, it in one sense it's going to be I think like the flu, where every year or every year and a half, we take another shot account for variants that are coming from somewhere, either our country or elsewhere. But in another sense, it's not like the flu, because from

the get go it's been pretty dangerous. Uh. One two hundred people have died from of these variants. Do a couple of things that are disturbing. They kill maybe twice as many people as they did before. They kill younger people than they did before. Uh, and that's pretty worrisome. Uh. They're also, as they pointed out, more transmissible and invade our vaccines. So I think we may reach a steady state, but I hope that the steady state lower than it is.

A flu that in a good year kills twenty thousand of US, a bad year kills sixty thousand of us. It could be a lot worse, So we need to do better. There is hope, though, because there are drugs coming along now that if you think you've been exposed, you'll be able. I think in the future, maybe within a year or shorter, to take a pill and prevent

yourself from getting insighted. People should know that there's now a pill like that for flu, that if you've been exposed to the flu, there's a pill called a Flusa that you can take and dramatically reduce your chance. So if you're in school or your kid comes home with the flu the real fluid uh that you can reduce your chance of getting it. And I hope that within the relatively your future will have drugs like that for COVID two. Tim and I are both jumping because we

have a million questions for you. Just one quick one because then we have to take a break, but in forty seconds, so then you know we're finding out madernaur fisor how long they these vaccines keep working. But you know, I think there's a headline earlier Moderna's COVID ninteen vaccine keeps working past six months. I mean knowing this is really crucial right now to understand how safe we're going to be kept, at least for the time being. And just got about thirty seconds. Well, it is very good

news that those two vaccines you mentioned, Fiser Macderna. It seems to be very effective at six months and maybe even nine months. I don't think any of us expecting to be effective as long as the polio vaccines for many years. But that is very good news. Now, depending what vaccine you get, you'll have a different length of time the best so far as moderna adviser. Hey, but

they all are healthy. Let's get right back to Dr William Haseltein, chairman and president of Access Health International, also the author, among many other things, of my lifelong fight against disease from polio and AIDS to COVID nineteen. He joins us now again on the phone from Connecticut. Dr Haselteen, you said some thing before the break that I wanted to make sure I understood. It was with regard to

variance and vaccine. We continue to get news about the durability of this vaccine and also how it does in the face of variance. So far as have you seen anything that raises any red flags about the mutations of the virus being able to get past these vaccines that are available for emergence use authorization? Now? Uh, You asked the question in very specific ways, so I'll give you

a specific answer. The ask resentic A vaccine was ten percent effective against the South Africans variants in South Africa in a real test and means nine percent of the time and didn't work. Other vaccines have been much more successful against other variants, including the South African variant. I think if you really look at it, it depends upon how good the initial response is. If the initial response is very strong, it will last longer and protect against

more variants. Over time, it will be crease both in its protection against the original variant and increase decrease a little bit faster against the other variants. Now, not all variants are created equally. Some are more resistant in musialization or protection than or others. So and every day goes on, we see new variants. She has yesterday they were new variants reported out of California that they have originated in India.

So it's a very complicated picture that I think that means that even uh, if we don't have new vaccines as likely will be boosted. Within the next year to eighteen months. Everybody will be suggested to be boosted to protect ourselves against these make sure we have the highest possible line of body protection. That is achievable. And so

I understand this correctly that doctor has latina. As these variants come, as long as we just keep tweaking the existing vaccine, that they will be able to be tweaked pretty quickly so that we can keep up with the variance. Is that correct? In my very low tang low science explanation, the absolute point, we get a flu vaccine every year against variants of flu. It isn't a hundred push on protective, but it is good and it protects both against getting

infected and more importantly, getting sick. And I think most of us care about you know, we can put up with a cold, we can't put up with being hospitalized. And so it's very likely that we'll be able to keep abreast of this infection and the variance. But we'll have to keep on our tubes, and we have to be prepared for some nasty variant to come along that we're gonna have to respond to very quickly, but which we're not prepared. It's gonna be a very complex feature.

So does that Does that mean that we are going to have some sort of permanent infrastructure in place to rapidly deploy shots to large numbers of people it does. Uh think that's a very good conclusion. But I'll give you one ray of hope, and that is there are some gentlemans and vaccines that have developed that might be protective against many many variants, not just a few. So the third generation of vaccines that are currently in early

stages of tests may give us some hope. If we combine that with the anti viral drugs, we maybe have a solution to continue life nearly as normal. And at the same time, since this is your world and you and you are in touch with these networks of individuals and institutions, we need to be also though, getting ready for the next virus. Right we've already I you know, there's those virus hunters out there that have identified them that if we start working on kind of preliminary vaccines,

will be in much better shape. We need to be thinking about that. And just got about forty seconds. I think one of the long term benefits of this disaster that's befallen us because we all know that it's not just a matter of lives that are lost, it's economies that are lost to and that means there's everybody got to pulled behind trying to understand how to prevent this from ever happening again. You know, a lot of us have been crying in the dark that we have to

be prepared, not being listened to. I think from now on we're going to be listened to a lot more, and we will be prepared more than we were this time. Fingers crossed on that, elbows crossed. Everything crossed on that because I would like to be. I think the whole world hopes to be better prepared. Um. Dr Hazeltine, thank you so much. You always find time for us, and we really appreciate it. Dr William hazelteen Sherman, President of

Access Health International. He founded Human Genome Sciences. He's got several books out, including My Lifelong Fight against Disease, and he's got a new book, ATHLETs about variance, the shape shifting challenge of COVID nineteen. Joining us once again here from Connecticut. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol

Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, someone we like to turn to on everything from trade and politics to Wall Street, you'making and more is Stephan se Lick. He is managing partner at Bridge Park Advisors, chairman of Rotor. He's former Undersecretary of Commerce for International Trade at the U S Department of Commerce. That was during the Obama administration. He is back with us on the phone from Long Island. Uh. Stephens, So nice to

have you here with Tim and myself. How are you great, Carol? Thanks for having me back. So you've been busy. Got to talk to you about a story on the Bloomberg today about Sarkos Robotics planning to go public through a reverse merger with a blank check company. I think you're familiar with it, Rotor. Uh, your chairman of Rotor. Why tell us about this and why? Sarcos so um Rotor Acquisition is a company that we formed at the beginning

of the year. I have two partners, Brian Finn, who's the former president of Credit Suite in the US who I've known since and John Howard, who's a storied private equity investor, was the CEO and founder of the merchant

banking business at bear Stearns. And we raised two seventy six million dollars to do a deal um where for a company that was going to be positively impacted by innovation and technology to transform what historically had been an old economy business, and we identified Sarcos Robotics, which is a leader in highly dexterous mobile industrial robotics systems that enables the workforce of the future with solutions that enhance

productivity and reduce operational injuries and equalize employment opportunities for jobs around the world that did not otherwise lend themselves automation. So we are extraordinarily excited about this opportunity, um uh, and to present it to our share old I mean I'm looking at a picture of the Sarcos Robotics Guardian Exo Exo skeleton and it looks like an exo skeleton, like something out of a superhero movie. Yeah it does. I mean, this is something that is designed to help

people lift heavy objects, right, yes. Um What's important him is it's not designed to replace humans like a number of the robots you see and in automotive factories and in other applications, but rather to augment humans. And as a result of that, the technology has been um extraordinarily

well received by commercial and military customers alike. For some of the reasons, I suggested, what is the process of identifying a company like Sarcos Robotics when you have this criteria that you use for identifying the type of company that you want to acquire through a spect Well, you know, we came together, the three of us UM with a hundred years of law street experience and broad in deep

relationships and UM. One of those relationships with two of my partners was with Sarkos, and frankly, we think that's what differentiates some of the SPAC sponsors from others as this capital markets tool has continued to evolve, UM and Frankly, UM, what we think differentiates us UM is not only our ability to UM negotiate attractive acquisitions UM, but to identify

proprietary opportunities based on that network. Well, and I guess you know the question is because and we'll talk a bit more broadly about SPACs UM, Stephen, but did you guys think about a lot of other companies or look at a lot of other companies or I'm just curious about the process. Yeah, Well, UM, Sarcos had engaged to financial advisors to run a process which roughly coincide with when our SPACK was raised, So we were kind of

thrown into the suit. So to speak UM early UM UH in UM in our time frame for identifying a target, so UM we had the opportunity to look at UM a number of opportunities UM. But once the Sarko opportunity became actionable because of their own deliberations and process that they're board decided on, we frankly jumped on this is I'm just looking at pictures of of what's available on the market for this. UM. Just talk briefly about the go to market strategy with with how you're thinking about

getting this to companies. It seems like right now the cost is really high. You're going to lease it or the company I should say Sarcos Robotics will lease it FO dollars a year. Uh, and then eventually the cost is going is expected to get lower. Yeah, I mean the cost to manufacturer will go down dramatically as we start to get to scale. The cost that you're referring to tim anw or high only because we're in the

kind of alpha data UM production stages. So we're doing that ourselves as opposed to the global contract manufacturers that we will utilize UM once we get the scale. But UM, your intuition is actually the opposite of what we believe to be the case, which is this will make UM production and manufacturing and UM decreased costs for our for our customers because it will allow one worker to do what to three or four workers can do without this

UM without this technology, So just think about it. UM, A normal worker guidelines are you shouldn't be listening lifting stuff that's more than thirty pounds, and when you have to list something that's more than more than thirty pounds, that means you need to three or four workers. Where Here UM you can use the exoskeleton can lift up to two hundred pounds and frankly feel like you're lifting just five pounds UM. And as a result of that UM, the cost benefits to UM, UH, the cost benefits to

our potential customers are significant. Let alone the benefits around worker safety UM. The amount of productivity that is lost in the global economy because of workplace injuries are just extraordinary. I do also wonder to UM stuff and if it allows older workers to, you know, maybe take a job that they wouldn't normally be able to because they're able to tap into this kind of equipment. And just got about thirty forty seconds, then we'll come back and talk

some more. So that's exactly right, Carol. And it's not older workers taking these jobs as much as workers being able to stay on their jobs and not actually age out because of the wear and tear that their bodies will take in some of these more demanding jobs, let alone having younger people who are going to be attracted to these jobs because frankly, they're less dangerous and more interesting and more fun um, rather than just sitting in front of a screen trying to get right back to

Stefan see like he is matching partner Bridge Park, Advisor's chairman of Road or former Undersecretary of Commerce for International Trade at the Commerce Department during the Aboma administration. Still with us on the phone in Long Island. Hey, just one more question on sarcos um, Stefan. I do wonder how much of the business going forward will be reliant on government contracts. It's a great question, um, Carol. We

have very strong relationships with the U. S. Military. However, all of our projections that we have shared with investors are one dependent on UH commercial relationships, um, and not dependent on government contracts because frankly, government contracts are are far less certain, um uh and subject to much more variability. And so we really built a business plan around commercial applications. Although we think there's going to be tons of military

and other government uses for the products. Well, look forward to hearing more in the future too. As you guys m continue along, I do have one bigger, broader question stuff and when it comes to SPACs, there are so many out there. There's a lot um that haven't put any money to work or trading for less than the cash that they raised in their public offerings. Do you think ultimately that there will be many of these SPACs

that go nowhere that will ultimately be liquidated. Um. You know, Look, Carol, I think that's hard to say. On the one hand, on the other hand, I think for sure you're going to see a continued evolution and maturation in this spack market um with you know, more accomplished, more experienced sponsors replacing frankly those folks that have been more entrepreneurial historically, and frankly a better set of underwriters that are using would use more stringent standards to select sponsors to raise

this capital. I think you've seen that in all kind of capital markets innovations over the years, and I wouldn't be surprised to see that happening with SPACs on the one hand. On the other hand, I don't think this capital markets tool is going to go away, and I think it will have a permanent place in UM the landscape for companies looking to companies at a certain stage

of their lifestyle looking to raise external capital. Hey, Stephen, I want to talk trade with you, because of course you were former Under Secretary of Commerce for International Trader are former undersecret Commerce for International Trade at the U S depart enough Commerce during the Obama administration. We are still in a trade war with China right now. I

think a lot of people forget that. Um, how do we get past this and into the what is the sort of next relationship or phase of the relationship with China look like? You know, I'm not sure Kim, we do get past it. Um. I remember telling Carol, Um, you know a few months ago that you know, it's almost kind of like we're in a challenged marriage with China and we're kind of forced to live together because

of the kids. And I think, frankly that continues to be the analogy and our relations you know, I think are going to continue to remain fraught. Um, the tone may change or will change under the Biden administration and clearly will be less belligerent. I think clearly as a tactical matter, we're likely to coordinate much more of our friends and allies. But I don't think the fundamental underpinning of these tensions is going to go away anytime soon. So let me ask you. I love that, I do

remember that. I think it made us chuckle when you said it. But this whole idea of being forced to live live together because of the kids, who's going to have the better house, China or the United States? I asked that because of the infrastructure spend that President Biden

is now trying to do. Stephan, we had a great conversation with our Andy Brown of Bloomberg New Economy that the whole idea of you can't fight, you know, the way we used to fight with our with maybe our foes, that modern weapons weaponry now is really about um improving, you know, your economy. That's how you fight kind of in the in the strongest way, and doing that is by building up your infrastructure. So I wonder your thoughts on that. So I guess Caroline made there was two

points to that interesting question. The first is which side do you want to take? And frankly, I don't want to um uh sound Pollyannish, but you know you have to bet on the US. We have the strongest economy, the most innovative economy, We have rule of law, we have the broadest and deepest capital markets, we are energy self sufficient, we have um an extraordinary workforce. We have the best secondary education university education system in the world.

And you know, those are all things that are the envy of the world. As I went around, not just as under under secretary, but as a banker for many years, people want to do business with American companies and want to do business in America, and that's not going to change. Um uh. That's not going to change anytime soon. To

your second point about security, um uh. And this is something that is highly topical because there are there is a lot of conversation about whether or not we should separate trade issues from broader security and human rights issues, and a number of leading companies have suggested that we should. I take the exact opposite view, because I believe economic

security is national security. To your point, which is which is the stronger our economy, the stronger our workforce, the better position we are going to be to advance our national interest. For Okay, so very briefly, we might be the envy of the world as you as you found when you were traveling, But we still have two political parties that basically cannot agree on anything. So how does

anything happen when it comes to infrastructure? Republicans are unwilling to to budge and Democrats it seems to be the same. And Stephan, don't kill us. But you out like thirty seconds. You know, well that's that gives me a lot of time to answer that. You know, Look, you know, how we get from the ear to there is hard I think both sides. There is a recognition that we have

wildly underspent in terms of infrastructure. The question is going to be how do we define what that infrastructure spending is for, how much it is for, and importantly what's going to be to pay for? And the tax policy implications, which you know have been all over the press for the last couple of days. Yeah, absolutely, listen stuff And I always come in with a list of things I want to talk with you, because I can talk to you for hours. Thank you so much. Be well and

stay safe. Stephan see like at Bridge Park Advisors. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News