Weird thing happened in the weird Weird Wow. Welcome everybody to Bledso said, so we have an exciting guest with us tonight, Cliff um And just a brief introductory for how we met. About a year ago. Before we really started doing like the Patreon discord space um I was craving some sort of interaction
with people, so I would regularly hop in Twitter spaces. I was doing it about once a week, and Cliff was um U, an individual who was hopping in multiple of them, and I began to notice his user name and I began to chat with him going on, you know, weeks, and I really appreciated his insights and just could tell that he really knew his stuff as far as Enochian and astrology was concerned. And I just felt like,
man, I really liked this guy. And then, Cliff, if you remember, you offered to do an astrology reading for me, which I very happily accepted, and we had a zoom call a week or two after that for you to like get all the information and compile it into like a concise reading. We spent an hour on a private zoom call and honestly, it blew my mind it's it's one of the very best astrology readings I've ever had. So we're coming in with a blank slate tonight. We've never covered
pretty much the majority of this material. We're going to cover everybody. Welcome, Cliff, everybody much introduction. I really appreciate it. Yeah. So, um, so let's let's just get into it because it's it's a big I mean, you're you're the expert. So we're gonna be talking Enochian, Um, maybe a little bit of Edward Kelly, John d some very fascinating pieces of esoteric history that I in the back of my mind knew that I
wanted to cover someday. But I think, you know, tonight, with Cliff being on with us, it's just like the perfect opportunity to ball out. Yeah yeah, so okay, So where to begin. Let's at least define what Enokian is. Enokian is, because I'm super dumb. I don't know what it is. I'm sorry, I was telling him before before we started. I've been thinking about this for days because I don't know much about this. We haven't covered it on the show. I'm so excited, so
yes, please inform my silly, dumb little brain. Well, you're great. It's great. So Enokian refers to multiple things at once, So I'm going to try to like give you the multiple layers of it. So at it's broadest, it's kind of like this magical mystical system, right that basically is in the Christian tradition. So we're literally talking Christian magic here, which is gonna like blow some people's minds, like how can you have both these
things? How can you have Christian and magic at the same time. Yeah, it is, and the story of it is wild, and we'll get into that later. But so that's one piece. It also refers to the language of Uno Kian, which John d and Edward Kelly received during their their sessions, and we'll get into that in a little bit. But it also refers to an alphabet which is used to spell out that language. So it's
kind of got those three things. And if any of you are a fan of like Supernatural, they actually featured that language in the in the show, and part of me is wondering, like, hmm, I wonder if they took up this energized mystical language. And that's why that show was like one of the longest it's the longest running. It was the longest running horror genre
show ever. So you may yeah, you may not know this, but so Ryan actually put me onto Supernatural way back in the day, and like the first few seasons, the first like five seasons, five six seasons, as I watched, loved it all, and I just now off at some point is it it's so the Inokian stuff. Did I miss it or did it? Does it come in later? It comes you might have missed it.
So it's a castile is with this angel that comes in and he actually sometimes occasionally will actually speaking Okian or at one point as a joke, they make him singing okin but you don't actually see him singing it and all that. But it's um so yeah. So, so I guess a good place to start is sort of like the history and who John D was and who Edward Kelly was and all of that. So John D is what is sort of we would call nowadays a polymath, a guy who's like really smart about
everything like any given subject. At the time, that's kind of who and what he was. And he was an advisor to Queen Elizabeth the first and he actually wound up picking the date of her coronation or the time of her coronation using astrology. So we've got this guy who's already like pretty influential, and then he gets found out that he's doing that. And you can imagine in sixteenth century England where kind of the church rained supreme Oh, nati nati,
we're gonna go ahead and imprison you right now. So he keeps on getting in trouble for all of his varied interests that the church may or may not approve of. But he's kind of this advisory figure. He's very important when it comes to like navigation, and he's very good at mathematics and optics. And you have to bear in mind like mathematics itself is practically like the
pseudo magical thing. That's at the time they didn't have yeah exactly, and they didn't really it wasn't looked on as like a normal like a normal academic discipline. That sort of thing is like this is you're doing weird stuff with numbers, and I don't trust you, you know that sort of It was like literally that superstitious. So given the state of affairs in England at that time, he kind of gets in trouble over and over again, because he's
so smart, he's looking at so many different things. But he's and I'll try to give a quick background as to why he got into these angelic conversations. We'll just go chronologically, just give like an overview. So he goes from this into from this advice. He stays as an advisor to the queen for what for pretty much his whole life, even into the reign of her successor, James. But he at some point he gets into these angelic conversations, right, so he's like, I need to talk to angels, and
he uses this squire whose name is Edward Kelly. But at first he uses an assumed name. That's always a good sign of somebody's character. He uses an assumed name of Edward Talbot, right, and this guy is a squire. So really quickly what a squire is. It's basically a guy if you think of like that classic stereotype of somebody looking into a little ball and getting yeing this vision in that and actually was this idea and Ryan, of course
he'll be happy to hear this. He actually looked through an actual crystal and these visions in the crystal, and so that was his technique he would do that. He was sort of like what we call nowadays a psychic, and so he hires this guy because Edward, because John d isn't that great of
a squire himself. He's actually not very good. So he hires him, and then all of a sudden bang, it's like they get connected in to this immense energy of angelic power and this massive, hyper complicated system that at in some ways is sort of like an evolution of previous magical stuff going on at that time, like gramoires and stuff like that, but really introducing this
massive like mathematics and astrology. It's this imagine like this this you know, twelve dimensional Rubik's cube that has to get down all noted, one small piece at a time through this poor guy looking through a crystal ball or through a crystal, yes, exactly, through a crystal and then probably having high strains. So that is sort of like how it originated, right, and you
fast forward to twenty twenty three and we got crystal poker balls. Yes, yes, they'd be like what that's like, that's crazy, that's witchcraft, you know, Yes, So that's kind of the story of of like what enoking is and how it kind of got started at kind of like a surface level. But the interesting subhistory, so you all are probably familiar with,
like the Nagamati scrolls, these buried scrolls that are discovered after centuries. The interesting thing is those that they get discovered, those Nagamati scrolls, but some of them are lost because somebody starts using them as kindling what so exactly right, So, but there's a parallel here because John D's um, you know, work some of his diaries. He burns some of it, okay,
just on his own. He buries other parts of it, and that part gets discovered, gets put in like this hidden drawer, and then it gets discovered like you know, decades later and you know, maybe even like over a century later, and he and what's the first thing that happens. The servant takes it and starts using it as pythons, you know, you know,
paper on the bottom of the python to keep it. So like some of this stuff gets lost, and it's just like this weird like almost like Okay, God is saying, I'm going to keep this, but I'm going to make sure you know that some of this is lost. If you do to you're not you know, teaching everybody, treating everybody equals, so they could maybe recognize that this is important. So it's been sort of recovered over the over the last especially the last thirty years especially, there has been a
good job of recovering as much of it as we can. So the very mind blowing thing to me is like, we're talking what you say, he's fifteen hundreds, right, he was allowed? Okay, so we're talking about an individual or two individuals and the fifteen hundreds who had access to knowledge that we don't have at present time to develop hyper advanced entity contact. I want
to know what they had access to. Yeah. Yeah, And there's a real question about why that is. And the best explanation I've heard, I'll give ahead and give a shout out to Kate burtas she explained that kind of
what was going on astrologically was this thing known as septiles. So just a real quick idea is that if you take the three hundred and sixty degrees of the path that the Sun takes an you know the Earth, you know, apparent path of the Sun around the Earth, and you devoided that by seven there were that there was that configuration of planets in the sky like by you know, sevenths of three hundred and sixty degrees. That is that sort of
was very active at that time and is going to happen again. Speaking to the to the younger generations here is going to happen again in the twenty seventies. So I'm very curious about Manyokian two dato here or may not happen exactly right, So feature vegetables, Yeah, I'll probably be just to make sure I'm following. Then. The Enochian is the practice of communing with like angels.
Yeah, absolutely, so you can do. Yeah, you got a couple of there are different parts of the system, and we can go over that, you know, at whenever you want. But that it's core. It's basically, UM, I'm gonna build a bunch of stuff that's gonna help what Jason Louve calls, who shout out Jason Louve, who helped teach me some of this, um, you know, build this furniture and use it to help sort of insulate this very raw electric power of the angels and it
will help like keep you from getting zapped. Almost make this call in this angelic language and then talk with the angels ask them for stuff. They'll probably laugh at you if you're asking for buried treasure and stuff like that, because that's always happening. But they'll give you they'll give you a ton of wisdom.
So that's and then that's it. It's at it's it's basically only two or three steps, but you just have to do a lot of overhead of stuff in advance, like groundwork, like you know, foundational expressions and things like that. By the way, I don't know if you remember this, Nick, but Jason Louve is the guest on episode five of The Midnight Gospel. Yes right, yes, yes, yes, So he's a very he's a prolific magician. Is he the No, he's not the French guy I'm
thinking about. I'm thinking about somebody else. But um, I do remember who you're talking about from Midnight Gospel. Wow, that is so wild. The bird that like guides into reincarnation. Yeah. So they use like specific they like fung shui furniture so they can talk to anil. Yeah basically, yeah, exactly. I mean literally, I'm not I'm not showing it to you. I can like show you bits and pieces, but literally your you all are this computer is sitting on top of the holy table of practice right
now? That's cool. Yeah, So it's like, you know, literally you're using it to sort of get your your It's it's hard to explain. I'm not sure why this is. You know, a lot of other magicians, a lot of magical practices are more about like, well, we don't need all this stuff. Why do you have making I'll build all this stuff. And I'm not sure why except other than to say, are you too proud to do this stuff? Are you? Are you gonna like put yourself
higher than what God is saying? I think that's kind of like some of the rationale for it. So that's kind of like, just just do what you're supposed to do. So I have a question for you, And this is more so for the listener or for the audience. Like when I think of questions, you know, as far as the show is concerned, I like to think of what could um like shine an alternative light to that person out there who might be judgmental towards this kind of topic, you see what
I'm saying. So, like for somebody out there who's like this is weird, you know, the word magic, ah, how would you how would you simplify the reality of magic to someone who has no clue what we're talking about. Sure, so the reality of magic, I mean there are a lot of different definitions. I mean, I try to take up pretty light whatever we typically call magical, you know, beautiful sunsets, up that sort
of thing. We're kind of getting into this space where, you know, it's sort of like it's like this reality you know, if you if you're already positing the existence of God, and we can talk about the atheists later, because I feel like there's a pretty good mathematical proof of you know, kin and all of that, but if you're talking if you have any sort of belief in the existence of God, one of the things that God has asked us to do is literally to pray to him, right, and then
he's asking us to seek wisdom. Well, there's also sort of like that old joke about you know, if you know, I ask you for you know, for this and that and the other thing, and God sent you a life raft, and God sent you, you know, all these different ways to escape your peril, and you didn't take advantage of them. So one of these things He's given us is like history, and I would say magic is one of those things too. Now. I usually I try to
use magic mainly to help people. There are different people who will like take it in different directions, but that's kind of at its core, is like, the world is kind of messed up. We can do stuff to fix it. God has given us these tools just as much as he's given us on any other technology. Why not try it out and see if this is
going to help you out. The other side to it is that I think that if you take very much a narrow view of whatever the person in the pulpit says, or whatever the person on TV says, or this and that and the other thing, you will always be limited by their view and you're literally giving up your own agency to have contact with the divine. So those
are sort of my rationales as far as why I do magic. You may it may not be for you, But I would also say, don't be judgmental with people who do it anymore than I'm not jugmental of people who don't.
Yeah, right, it's like that, you know, you don't usually hear about Like you said, you don't usually hear about Christianity and magic in the same sentence, but it's that's why it's so important, you know, with so many things in this subject, the subject of the phenomenon and you know, the spirit, it's it's so important to keep an open mind. I love the idea that just like uh, you know, just like science and spirituality go hand in hand, It's like spirituality, Christianity, christ and
and magic can go hand in hand too. That is just so cool. Yeah, I definitely think, like I think, people get way too imprisoned in UM language, you know, like these self imposed mental prisons. People take definitions of words at a subconscious level way too seriously. And you know that's that's definitely beneficial for people to kind of navigate language from a different point
of view. And like I think, you know, growing up as a very strict Christian, I'm sure Nick can relate to this UM Hearing the word magic is you know, there's two reactions there. The reaction number one is, you know, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings. You know, it's fiction, it's cool, whoa shoot a fireball? And then the other reaction is this is evil, it's demonic, you know, keep it away from me, or if you're my parents, it's Harry Potter is evil because
it's magic, and you're not. All right, Yeah, so those two those two me. But you know, it's like keep it away from me. You know, magic is real, but it's evil, you know what I mean? So like, I like, I liked you your answer there, but let me let me reform that question because I think that was a great description. But what I really meant to ask was and your understanding why is magic real? Okay? So I mean expect I guess experience is the
key of your results. So one of the things I would say, just I would I can say this about you Okin in particular, is that using it, I have found that I have found a very deepening of much a
process that really deepens my relationship with my heart. So I think, yeah, and I think part of what Ekian can do, you know, if you're you know, I'm not going to say it's for everybody, but what it can do is it sort of like strips away these nonsense narratives that we tell ourselves because we're armoring our heart against being hurt or against you know, things being too scary for us. And that's sort of what I've come to
understand is that going through the process of there's a part of the Eunochian system called the athers. We can talk about that later if you want. Where you're Yeah, so like the ethers are just really briefly, it's this idea of it can be thought of in a lot of different ways, but one of them is like these subdivisions between Earth and Heaven, right, And there are different ways to approach it. Some people say you should start at the
top and then come down. Other people sort of take more about, well, let's build it up like Jacob's ladder and go one at a time. I took the ladder approach, and I found that what that does is it sort of forces you to like confront stuff that you're just holding onto, and the angels are like right in there, they're telling you this is another you
gotta let go of this, and blah blah blah blah. And there's sort of like one at a time lifting up a veil from your eyes until finally you get to the top and you actually experience union with the divine and that is like this crazy mystical experience where like in the first time I did it, I saw like this bank of clouds in the vision. So this all
envision. So I saw a bank of clouds below me, a bank of clouds above me, and in the center a silver sphere, and the clouds had these flashing rainbow lights in them, in both of those, in both
the banks of clouds. And then it comes up. The sphere comes up to me, and it's God and he is you know, I can feel as I'm doing this, like this this high almost coming on, you know, not as if you know, don't do drugs, kids, blah blah blah, but you can feel this yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, and you know, boom, there's this like, you know, this big voice, and I've recorded all this stuff, you know, but he's got this
big voice, this big message, and it's all about love. It's very getting, a very core message of love that isn't just limited to one thing. It's like this very universal love. So I don't see anything wrong with that, right, And I can actually see yeah, and I can see if you experience that that viscerally, then all of a sudden, Okay, I can't deny this experience one and too, I'm going to have to like re orient my entire approach to life. Doesn't mean I need to throw it
all away, but I need to make some changes here at home. Yeah, so what it sounds like to me is in completely different terminology. Sure, you're you're describing a spiritual system that has genuinely helped you strip down the ego. Absolutely, Yes, that's that's a perfect way of describing it. Yeah, I mean that's that's that's really fascinating. Yeah. And it's at
will. Yeah, it's at will. You know it would that would only took me eleven minutes, so you know, that was it and that was over, and I was just like, wow, you get to the end of the roller coaster ride and then that's it. So but yeah, I that's that's sort of my approach. So I usually recommend people start with like the ethers that are lower, like kind of closer to Earth, so it's not too oooh, you know, just getting a decent start, you know.
Um, it's gentler that way. Yeah. You don't want to break through to the highest level and see like giant green, formless blobs or something. Well even if yeah, well even if you do start going at that highest level, you'll see something. It'll just be like kind of blocked off. It won't be it will be completely there because you're not ready to be
there yet. Well yeah, or like you can get like a hint of something, but it's like how much can you describe that universal love before you if you haven't stripped all this stuff, you get something, right, but it won't it won't be it'll the signal to noise ratio won't be that.
That sounds like descriptions I've heard of mushroom experiences. Yeah, like from people around me who have had experiences that are like I saw something and there was a door but it was locked and I couldn't go through, yeah, or something like that, or there's an entity shaking his fingers like you're not ready yet. You know. It sounds very similar. Yeah, exactly exactly,
so I think, and this isn't I know. I started pretty hardcore at the end of twenty eighteen, but I had actually started in twenty fourteen, and I got through like ten of the eight ers, and then it clamped up and I knew it did, and I needed to like take a break, like four years of a break, you know, four and a half years a break. But then I started back up and then I managed to get through all of them. So you know, you got to face certain things. How did you how did you, um like, stumble upon emoc
how did you or you know Enoki? And how did you discover it in the first place? Yeah, so um, like you both, I've been raised, you know, in a conservative, fundamentalist Christian household. Jesus is coming back, the world's ending, all of that, and um, it was something that I rebelled against when I, you know, turned that magic age of eighteen. It can be on my own. So I started exploring
all things magic. And there was this Um there still is this great place in Minneapolis, in a place called dinky Town in Minneapolis known as Dinkytown, right. I think it's changed his name a little bit. It's Megas something or other, but it's still in Minneapolis, and it's by. It was run by and I think he still affiliated with this guy named Roger, Roger Williamson, and he was a really nice guy from the kay. I always wished me have a wild evening, you know, that sort of thing,
you know, every time. It's really nice. But I remember just reading absolutely every kind of magical text. They took more of that Western tradition because you know, that's where we all kind of start as like what do we do this, you know, and our system and isn't really as continuous like it is in the East, so we have to like have a lot of people figure stuff out, write a book about it, explain kind of like the basics all of that, sell an ebook exactly. And Pinocchian kept coming
up as like this is a really powerful system. You better watch out for this. Alista Crowley used it, by the way he did. Yeah, he was. He was part of the people one of the later generations who you know, took the material he had and felt like the Golden Dawn wasn't giving him everything he needed, and he actually took his own trip through the ethers and he the later ethers they were kind of locking up on him as
well. So do the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn Usinokian They well, yes, so that the original order died out, but it's sort of had revivals that have like come back. But yeah, so they use that and that was actually some of the mysteries they had for people who would like complete this task of you know, get obtaining knowledge, full knowledge and conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. They would teach them some of this, but it
wasn't like as full of a system as we have now. We've just keep on discovering other documents so that other people have you know, shared and stuff like that. So it's it's been something that over time we've managed to reconstruct a decent idea from John D's diaries of what it was like and what it was supposed to be about. Honestly, I feel like I need to say this for those out there who are listening. Alisha Crowley's a buzzword, very
depraved, sick individual. Yeah, but it needs to be understood that like Alisha Crowley didn't create this material, and just because he tried, it doesn't mean that the material itself is you know, danned or cursed. And like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn is a very fascinating group. I don't know much about them. I have seen some material Freemason and and a Rosicrucian
this one guy, but that both orders you can double dip in. Some of these orders had sent me some slides from like a Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn presentation that I wasn't He was like, don't share this. You know, I have a friend who's like really high up in the Golden Dawn,
and it was all about angels. It was all about like lesser banishing of the Pentagram ritual, which is like praying to angels in certain cardinal directions, you know, trying to commune with Raphael, Michael Gabriel, etcetera.
Et It's very angel focused. It's very like Christian type, you know, themes and um, I think Golden Dawn is like a pretty fascinating order because from what I understand, like what you're describing, they were focused on trying to use these magical practices just to enhance life and like reach higher states. Yeah, it wasn't a lot of the funny business, and that's why they kicked Allaster Crowley out from what I Yeah, Curley he had an especially troubled
relationship with Christianity. His parents were also fundamentalist, but he was not treated well, you know, and you can imagine like the times such as they were, you know that he you know, it was even worse back then, Let's put it that way, if you were in the wrong. And so he the thing about Curly is so he he gets h inherits a lot of money and he so he can sort of live this lifestyle where he's searching all these spiritual things from across around the globe. But he's he's very you
have to sort of contend with him because he's in this mix. Well, we're all trying to, like the Western or Western magical tradition, is trying to like fit it stuff together, and he has all these contacts and he's trying to they're all trying to figure stuff out, and he's sort of like a central figure. He's also brilliant. But yeah, like you said, he also has I would not recommend. Yeah, that's the thing about Yeah, like Crowley. Crowley he was he I mean, he really liked the
stuff that he published. Alone is enough, like in modern times to cancel a person like he's, Oh, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't. Not a part of me recommends Crawley. He's he's he's a very depraved individual. But you know, the more you study, the more you realize that you can see the history of someone being drawn to these different practices. He truly didn't develop virtually anything, you know, Yeah, I mean it's I wouldn't I wouldn't quite say that. I would say that he
probably he took it in a direction. Let's put it this way, that especially towards his later life, it was very more lily questionable. His earliers in middle life weren't quite as bad. Um depending on which parts you get to. Um, but suffice it to say, the guy was the guy was very smart. He had a very good way of like explaining a lot
of stuff. But you know, I guess that's what I mean. You can and he did inspire, you know, certain ideas and certain ideals that were probably needed at that time, like you know, following your will instead of just like always looking to the rule book, like what do I want to do with my life? That sort of thing. Um. So you know, I think most people, if you, if you really read them,
really understand him. It's like you gotta have some mixed feelings about him, but overall, given I'm more on this side, other people were like this, yeah, extreme extreme discernment. But like I guess, to put it into words, it's like like he is an individual who has single handedly tainted many practices, but like that's the crazy thing, that's the unfortunate thing. Like some of the stuff, and I don't say, oh, but some of the stuff he was saying was true because of his affiliation with certain
practices like goldened on and he's got he's gathering information from this order. He's gathering information from this order, and then he goes and runs his mouth and he makes all of it look bad. I personally think he was a psyop kind of individual. He was British Ami six. My conspiracy brain thinks he was planted in there or he was published out in the you know the world or whatever to create the satanic panic kind of Alisha Crowley six six six.
Don't get into the occult a tool, you know, Like I don't like Crowley at all. Yeah, I mean, I guess we could talk a lot about him, but I mean what I would say is like he's um. He was probably like a decent in some ways. He definitely was a spy, you know, during World War One. He really he literally was.
He literally was. Yeah, and I think he but I think he also was this sort of person who you know, there's sort of like levels of intelligence, and I think after in between the wars, I think he was sort of like, Okay, this guy's got some kind of weird charisma, so we might be able to use it. So even if he's not actively an agent. I think he was, you know, I mean he was in the mix, let's put it that way. Yeah, yeah,
I don't I don't think he was. I mean a lot of what I mean, most of what Curley was doing at the time was based on limited Enochian information anyway, So that's sort of like the thing, the way to sort of wrap up his involved and yeah, tangent aside, I just want to impress upon people. He experimented with Einoki and that's all I know to that extent. He did not create it, he did not develop it. It has nothing to do with him. He had, you know, he
had a little bit to do with it. Cliff, do you like horror films? Not as much, but I've seen some. So what do you got There's a movie. I'll have to find the name of it. I remember the events of the movie very vividly, I just can't think of the title. And it's about a magician who so this like this woman. I think she loses her child in like a accident or something. I can't remember.
It's been a few years since i've seen it, but I know she lost her child and she's desperate she's you know, grieving, so she seeks out a magician and they do. I can't remember the name of the ritual. It's actually a very popular Crowley ritual like Abramelan or something like that. But the movie like shows and Death, you know, the workings of the ritual and it's it's it's a really cool movie. I have to find the
name for. Yeah. Well, yeah, the abramelin it's actually something that I did do and that's actually they probably like twisted like what it actually is. It's basically the ritual to yeah, to get your Holy Guardian Angel and to get Yeah, yeah that that happens in the movie. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, and ten out of ten recommend that definitely getting that you don't need to use Well that's well, are you sure? Yeah, well the simple way. Yeah, it's just a movie, you know, that's
it. It's not like it's not like a month long like isolation all this stuff. I mean, there are parts of it that could be depending on how like the way I did it. Okay, this is like a weird tangent, but like the way I did it is I followed like other people who had like talked about their experience so basically you're supposed to like pray at least three times a day, and while how you're going to do that?
So like literally at lunch, I would go out to my car in the parking lot and pray and do this and that, that and the other thing. But I would try to do that and over and over and over again. You know, you're basically trying to make yourself a decent target for your Holy Guardian Angel. Like, Okay, is this person really taking it seriously or is he just gonna, like, you know, you know, just
give up after a little while. So, like the easiest way to do that, Nick, if you are interested, it's just literally you don't need to do it three times a day. And then there's a whole this all this other stuff with Abramelin. But you just literally pray each night, God please send me my Holy Guardian Angel in full knowledge and conversation you know so, and you'll know it's it works if you can do it at will and talk about the movie made it look way harder because it's a horror movie.
Yeah, look, there are a lot of steps that you can add in. It's sort of like you want to turn up the juice on this, I can do it. That's a whole other conversation. It's it's I don't know, I've I've been I've been particularly fascinated lately with like, um, the Guardian spirit Guardian Angel thing, and also like spirit guides and that kind
of stuff. Uh. And and my curiosity is because as far as spirit GUIDs go, the way I understand it at least is that, um, it's kind of one of those things where they're assigned to you if you can say it like that, or like before you're even born, or at the moment that your shred of consciousness is kind of manifest into this world. So is to your knowledge, is the Guardian Angel concept similar to that. Yeah, I would say that's probably It's probably something along those lines. I think
that. Um, what I would say is, I mean I'm not you know, I didn't go to divinity school yet, but I'm thinking it's something I thought about actually. Um, but I would say that there's there's one out there that you can definitely at least one out there that you can get in contact with. But the Holy Guardian Angel is particular. And actually did the astrology on that and it was like almost very complimentary to my own chart. I have a lot of fire and earth. This one had more air
and water in it, and you add it all together. It was like this perfect balance. Um. I did the chart of like when it actually appeared, and like that was that was a whole other thing where you could like feel it. Come on, you're in this like weird trance state. But but yeah, it was, yeah, it was. It was. It was wild. That was that was quite a trip. So you know war stories, I guess right then you have you have communicated then with your own holy guardian angel. Yeah, yeah, like so you can you can
do it at any time once you're successful with this ritual. Um. Basically it's got it's got to like a lot of overhead. Right. So the idea is partly that you can use this. Originally this idea is like okay, this will this thing will protect you and all that, but you can also use it in case you encounter any like negative entities out there. Boom, you know you're in your place because this is an angel of God,
so you can't don't mess with me. You can also use it as like this idea of an intermediary if you're going to speak with any other higher angel. Let's say this is the one you go to, and they're like sort of dialing it up. Yeah, a little bit like a wingman, right,
I got you. I like that. But also yeah, but also also it's sort of like um, it's it's also a bit of like a coach, a bit like a like a friend, a bit like you know, just a whole blend of other of a lot of different things that's trying to get you say, Okay, you need to get on this this thing, or watch out for this thing, or here's some wisdom or here's this other thing. I actually went straight from from that Holy Guardian Angel process,
and I just knew, okay, I needed to keep going. And you know, I was like, I'm going to do anoka and Hj's like, great, you know that's what you you know, that's what you should be doing. And you know I've been doing it ever since pretty much. How would you describe ribe the actual like message receiving part, if that makes sense?
Right, So, the the way I experienced the Holy Guardian Angel when he first arrived, he arrived in like this black if you have you ever seen like galactus almost like this, Yeah, he looked like that, except it was like it's sort of like that. It was like black. He was dressed a lot in black, but he had like this golden triangle at the at the center. And I'm not making this up, by the way, you know, I know I've read the book and all that, but
yeah, yeah, it's it was just like that. And if you if you listen to him, it's like his voice is like an octave lower. You know, he's like, you know, boot blah blah blah and so um, very authoritative, interestingly a lot more aloof than I thought he was gonna be at first. Um, maybe to you know, maybe because you know, I'm I'm overly agreeable, so he's like I'm gonna like split the difference here and just be like, okay, do this. You know. So I don't know, but he's he's got stuff to say, and he
guides me. And there's a whole other thing. Like I saw his sigil in the silver, just like the ritual says. So it was just it works, you know what do you mean by that? So you can actually, Um, there's this part of the ritual where at the end when you sort of like achievement unlocked in a video game. You know there's this part where you can tell it's happening. You're supposed to like have some silver next to you, right, so I had like the material silver, silver,
right, like in what form physical solid? Yeah? My wife? Yeah,
Yeah, it's it's like the Tree two one thousand. Okay, but you're supposed you know, you're supposed to like achievements unlocked, and then you know you're supposed to look in it and like you can see a little piece here it's got this is a different one, but you know, I looked in it and I could see if you've ever seen like um, like a flash light or you know flash photography when in a completely dark room and you get that afterburn on your retinas, Yeah, it was like I could see
his sigil in the silver like that. Okay, that's and that's it's it's one of those rare times where it's like boom, like there's that actual, you know, visual that's like beyond just like a lot of this stuff takes place in the maginal, but that one, it was just like wow, I can actually like see this, see this Okay, So okay, I have a I have a weird uh maybe completely unrelated follow up question, how
could that happen? We're only talking about angels, dude. That that really that really kind of blew my mind for a second, because, um, the thing you're talking about with the the afterburn, you can almost see something like an afterburn. Yeah, no, I mean I saw it. It wasn't afterburn. It was like it was literally in the silver, just like that. It was like, that's how I see. Ever since I was a kid, I see stuff like that. Sometimes I see stuff like it
just happens in my eyes. It's like I'm just seeing and usually it's it's it's it sounds weird, but it's like vague geometric shapes, like really vague, and sometimes they move, but it's always at the center of my vision. It literally happened today and it hasn't happened to me in quite a long time. So that's just seems really synchronistic. Yeah, whatever the word is.
I found that. You know, if you're writing synchronicity waves and stuff like that, a lot of times what will happen is you'll get like this energetic presence coming into your life. So like literally here I am and then all of a sudden that that part of you like work starts back up. If you're want to work with those, my recommendation is write them down, write down, make a drawing of what you see, and you may get a sense and intuition what have you that that can be used for something.
So you know, like like this is like a sigil of an angel or sigil of you know whatever. You know, like so yeah, that's the specific memories that I have with it. And this is just I can't even believe I remember this because I was probably eleven or twelve, but my friend Jesse Smith was overshot out Jesse Smith. You know him Ryan, right, you know I didn't know him that well, but everyone knew him. Yeah,
yeah, great guy. He's a great guy. Um yeah, I remember he was at my house one time and we were playing you know, we're just kids, like making up stupid games. So he's like, close your eyes and I'm gonna move and you have to like tell me where I am or whatever. So I did it, and I swear to you do this is gonna sound woo woo. That thing that that after burned thing followed
him. It followed him when my eyes were closed, and every single time I would point and he would be exactly where I was pointing, and he I even remember him saying, how are you doing at That was maybe maybe the first time I can remember that thing happening. And it's so like random, few and far between when it does happen, and usually it doesn't really
correlate to anything. But my mind is kind of blown right now that we're talking about this, to be honest, Yeah, I honestly I've never heard of anything like that, like the imprinting in the silver, and like, I think it's cool that it is silver because just like the alchemical you know, relationship there and that's that's super cool. Um. I was going to ask, is is Enokian safe? Like? And when I say safe, let me let me finish the question so you fully know what I mean.
When I say safe, I mean for the thinker out there who might be opening their mind to things but still are a little on the scared side. Safe in the sense that nothing darker evil could penetrate through you see what I'm saying. Yeah, So, um, if you're worried about that, the first thing I would say is be a good person, lived good life and be a little humble for God and all of that, Right, you know,
and maybe meditate a little bit. But you know, it's sort of that phrase, you know, by by their fruits, you shall know them. You know. Well, if you're not producing good fruit, then why do you expect anything, you you know, something good to grow off this vine. But I would say that, um, it's it's high octane. I would say it's in the top three of octane things I've done magically, and it's way it's very it's also very like, very well integrated. Let's
put it that way in terms of all aspects. It's a sound system, it's very well developed. Yeah, I mean there's yeah, I would say that's that's exactly right, especially in later years since we've done a good job of like recon when I say we like the you know, Kane community.
Yeah, sure, history of people working on this exactly. What I would say is, um, the easiest, the safest way in terms of like you wouldn't just play with gasoline in your front yard and unless you want to be a part of a future meme, um, you know, is to actually, you know, start with something very simple, like I start with one of these things. So we've talked about the Enochian language at the beginning. So a lot of what's come what was delivered was a whole lot of
like do this. Then the other thing. Here are the descriptions of what the angels are. But then the way to like make contact with certain certain angels and certain parts of the system is you need to make these calls in Enokian, which is basically a long almost like a psalm, but it's in the Unochian language. And make the one I would I suggest to most people who are just getting interested in this sort of thing is make the call to
this very low close to earth ether called texts. Ironically I live in Texas, but make this Yeah, I know, right, but make the call to texts. And it's very it's usually just like okay, you know, I'm seeing like this vision but it's not too bad. And there's like certain markers to know that you know that most that is common across other people. That's sort of like one piece of evidence that okay, this is like a real thing, because how would these two different people who have no like relationships
start seeing similar things? But that would be sort of like the the easiest entry point. And that's what I offer people from time to time whenever halftime, I'll like say, hey, you want to like get on this, you know three you know, this starts this weekend, and I'll do it every three weeks just for free, just you know, read off the call to people, explain, give like a very shorter spiel of what you know kan is and then just do that. And you know, people seem to
like it. And I haven't had any problems. I'm wondering. I don't know if it's because I've built the furniture and they're getting like that nice insulation that leads out over the internet or something like that, but I haven't had people had problems like that, So I think just because we kind of keep it, keep it with the training wheels on that sort of thing, and not putting a rocket on the back of our you know, skateboards. So
it's all been positive for you. Nothing, nothing, nothing. If you have to confront your own ego, that's never right, right, but you know that, and you know you just gotta let go a little bit and you know, grow up a little bit. And that's yeah, that's one of the things that's done. It's really um helped mature me me. I would say, UM, way faster than normal life. But um, doesn't mean I'm perfect, doesn't mean that I don't have a lot of ways to go. Sure, that's true. But you know, I would say that,
I would say that in that sense Ryan, it is. It is safe if you are doing it and with somebody who's kind of a little knowledgeable here and there, and I take emails through my website, you know, Ken dot Today, and I answer every one of them more or less, you know. Yeah, So just you know, if you got a question about something, just reach out. You're a resident magician to them, Yeah, reach out, you're so consulting magician. Yes, yeah. So so you said, um, top three, Um, what what was the word
you used? Uh, don't so we know it's in your top three. So it's that Oki and one or the other two. I would say that the Bournless ritual, which is a ritual out of the Greek magical papyri, it's basically it's very yes exactly or resident. Yeah, it's very that is very. It was something that I mixed in a little bit when I was doing Abermellen, just to you know, I was learning as I went when I did that ritual. Um. But so that was one of them.
And the other one is this sort of forerunner to kind of this semi obscure system. I actually know the original founder, the guy who wrote the book is not the actual guy who's the founder. Um if you if you look for an on Amazon, but it's known as ui Zelian Magic. And that's like a whole other thing that's sort of like coming out. Yeah, it's come. Yeah, it's because it's brand new and I sort of helped fit
in a small way bring it forward. But it's basically comes out of like this, um, not an actual book of Moses, but it's sort of got that name apply to it, known as the sixth and seven Books of Moses. So yeah, yeah, but that one, that one was pretty powerful, cool too, but it wasn't ask another it wasn't for me. Sure I can I ask another kind of dumb question, is Inochian in any
way related to Enoch from the Bible? That's a very good question, and the answers yes in the sense, so what the angels said is they come down. There's a kind of like this history. If you're interested in looking up justin Sledge's work on John on the Enochian language, as well as his
hieroglyphic monad. But what basically the angels told John d is that, look, you know, this is like this angelic, this language that was spoken by Adam and even the Garden of Eden, and it would the last person to speak it was Enoch, and then they sort of have like this mythical tale of how that then turned into Hebrew. Probably not true from a linguistic
point of view, but from a metaphorical point of view. You know, you think about a holy language, well, Hebrew is definitely one of those, um, Hebrew, Latin, Greek, and then of course now Enokian, which is sort of interesting. It's got you know, it's it seems to be a language with basically like a lot of irregular forms. I'm not, you know, really a linguist per se, but I think that people who who really study it and really look into it, it's hard to make
an argument that this is not a language in and of itself. There's a lot of precise math behind the language too. We haven't touched that at all, Like oh, yeah, the one fifty three table and how it relates to like the Vesica pisces and and um. It's there's a lot of crazy I mean, we we've really been like pretty surface level. Yeah, can scratch the surface. There's I'm I'm asking these questions like I don't know what
any of this means. I mean, I've never practiced Enokian, but I've I've spent quite a bit of time studying it, and I'm it's mind blowing. I think it would take someone like Cliff spending years and years and years, day in day out devoting themselves to this to truly understanding it. And you've kind of really just stimulated my imagination there for a second, like, are they or whoever the progenitors of Enochian are, you know, aside from
John d and Edgar Kelly. But the whole system is the claim here that this is, so to speak, like the Atlantean language that was spoken in
the spiritual realms. So that wasn't something that that Dan Kelly got. I'm gonna like sort of take a step back and sort of talk about a little bit how Enochian is almost like you take this hyper intelligent guy, juice him up with a lot of divine energy, and it's like through that energetic current almost, it's like you can actually like his was one of the few minds
that could actually start working with this. He wasn't perfect by any means, but I would say that other people who have taken this have gone in different directions. Right, My main thing is I'm trying to like see if I can get more downloads from the Angels, see if they have anything more that they want to show me, you know, and they're you know, if that's if you know I'm worthy or whatever the case may be, or if
I'm if I'm chosen. That's a probably better way of putting it. But other people who have taken it, they've gone like there's this guy named Daniel erection are E K s h N, and he takes it through this like intergalactic kind of way, but everybody's sort of taking their own different take on it, Like he's taking an aliens intergalactic being sort of thing. I'm taking it more. I'm just sort of taking the system as it is. But
there are different models that you can use to understand it. And that's why when other people, you know, people like Crowley or Leavey or taking hold of it, they immediately want to change it into something that you know, I'm rebellious in that and sort of thing. But it's like it's like any other tool. It can what it gets used for depends entirely on the person using it. So, um, so you could use it for that, But I wouldn't say that they necessarily said that's what it was, right.
It's just it's like knowing the history of Esoterica and all the literature and the secret societies and how they've like woven in and out of history, it sounds to me like the Anochian system is claiming. You just said that this is the claim that Adam and Eve spoke this language. The angel said that to
him. Yeah, okay, so the angels said that to him. So if this is true, then just through knowing you know, the secret societies and the information that they're guarding, then this would probably be the Atlantean language. I mean, I know we're taking two systems here. That's okay, let's let's let's dive into a little bit. You know we're stretching here. Yeah, well so there's It's it's interesting how there are these different claims to
authority, right, Like what makes something? How do you know something's real and valid? Well, it's got to go back thousands of years otherwise you know it's not part of this hidden lost with but you see what I just said, it's if it's there must be this old wisdom thing. And yet if we we also don't want to like get away from this idea that we're progressing, like we're getting better. So which is it? Are we getting worse? Are we getting better? You know? And we It's funny how
we never really exactly right reality. We can do we can do both right, yes, climate change, but we got the Internet about it. You go to the gym on a Tuesday, you bench press, your body is sore as hell, You're getting stronger. Yeah, it's that simple. Or you may you may not do that and then not get as strong and then wonder what's happening and blah blah blah. So there's there's this push and pull. But like when Christianity first was on the scene, the Romans said,
what's up with his new religion? You ever see like the Book of Mormon, there's that line, let's go back to biblical times eighteen twenty three. You know that sort of idea You haven't you know? Yeah, But I mean I'm just saying, like that line is like, oh, Biblical times, like you know, two hundred years ago or something like that because biblical times. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. So the whole idea is like, um, the Romans were like kind of like, you know, saying
Christianity shouldn't be worth it anything because it's not ancient. Well now it is, you see what I mean. So like there's this there's this idea of like we want to idealize the past is the past, but there's stuff that people are doing that clearly is interesting, right, and that stuff tends to survive. But then we tend to think, well, all of it must have been good when it really wasn't. I guess. More so, what I'm getting at is like in esoterics, I'm a big wisdom tradition guy,
you know what I mean. I understand magic is real, and my understanding of it is this, because of what is the truth. We are all a divine spark of the original consciousness. So when you come in here and you set your intention on some you know goal, you can manifest it. You can do it through ENOCHI, and you can do it through this,
you can do it through that. I think they all work to an extent, you know what I'm saying, yeah, but what these systems claim is that there is a sort of twilight lane uage, Like in the ancient past, before we were purely physically incarnated beings, there was an original holy language that was and like in the Bible you had the story at the Tower of Babel, right, supposedly all spoke one language and then boom, the whole
world is split up into languages, different languages to confuse us. Yeah, I know that when my dad was in the presence of the lady and these light beings led him to them, they sang in a language that he couldn't understand it was. He said, it was heavenly. So i'm i'm I'm hip to the idea that this is possible, that this that there is some sort of language that we presently don't understand, that has some sort of vibration that could, you know, make wonderful things happen. I'm curious, like,
is it is it Enochian? So I would say, I would argue that there are probably languages that do that. And I would say, like if the one of the predecessors too, like people who like, well, you knowin that's the angelic language. Well, it turns out Hildegard of Bingen. She is a saint who you know, had angelic words that interestingly none of them are you know, you can't compare and contrast because there wasn't really a whole lot of overlap between those two languages, between d Zinochian and then
hild the Guard of Bingen's linguic not a the unknown language. But I think that there are languages that are filled with power, and even going back to like ancient Greece, they would like yeah, even like Latin, but like in ancient Greece, they would have like um barbarous words that somehow or like these long words and you find them in that the Bornless ritual that I mentioned, where they're just these long words and you vibrate them like that and then
all of a sudden it's like you hear this stuff. Yeah, I was inquired. I like, hey, let's go. But um, I would say, I would say, there's a couple of things. So like, on the one hand, there's like this practical if I do this, am I having this experience and you can get that with a with I'm at this point now where I can get it like with English words. If I just
vibrate it correctly. But on the other hand, yes, there are certain languages, you know, gain especially that have like that extra special sauce to stay absolutely oh absolutely yeah. But it's it's interesting that a lot of I almost wonder if the reason why John D sort of like got selected by the
angels is that he was interested. And I won't take up too much time, but I'll like, I'm on the edge of my seat here quick so very interesting, so like really quickly right, So Nick, you got your hand on the cat, right, But we got this idea of the word cat, right, but we could call it anything. That's the idea of this nominalist language, right, But imagine this idea of like speaking words into
existence. It's sort of like that idea of not just the cat of not just like I am I'm going to say the word, but there is some the map is the territory. That's this idea of real realism, okay, son omalism versus realism. John D was very influenced by this idea. And if you think about it, the words that I speak, if I say to you peace, all of a sudden, it changes your entire central nervous system. Compared to if I say any other word. But the funny thing
about that is is that that's proven in psychology too. By the way, yes, I felt that when you said it. Scientifically, I didn't do anything special that word, you know, you know it's like But the thing is is like if you if you um take that idea, you realize that that's just an extension of as above, so below. And also the other half to that phrase is as below so above. So you can see why
d this idea of magic. It's like there's this isomorphism like the same you know, God has create, created us in his image, so we sort of have, like you said, Ryan, this spark of divinity that all of a sudden is oh, okay, I have like this, I have this responsibility as a divine being to make things right and better for the world.
So that's kind of like that's a mind blowing thing. So at to sort of know that that I'm telling you, Cliff, You've had me on the edge of my seat and in an hour is not enough for this. And I have so many more questions I have Yeah, no, go for it, go go, I have one more question. Sure, um dang, I hide myself up so much oh, okay, is there are there? Are there phrases an enokid, I'm not talking someone like, I'm not
talking about diving into like the ritualistic aspect of things. Are there simple Enochian phrases that could be used as affirmations to raise your vibration? Is that a thing? Sure? Yeah? I mean the one I recommend is monans, which means hearts like you sort of feel that and it's like helped it if you were if you do that, you know you can and then just do it, you know. I notice that that that two first two words of that our own backwards, you know, kind of interesting. Yeah, that's
what I was about to say. First impression of this is it's the same exact concept as like what the Eastern you know, Tibetan and and booted Uh traditions are doing with the vibration of vowels to open chakraates. It's it's all the it's it's all the same thing. And real quick, I'm actually a dual you know, Kian Buddhist practitioner. Okay, so cool? Yeah, what's God? That's so sick? How can you be both? How can you be Christian? Magic? How can be Christian. Yeah, no,
I like that. We Jeremy bloed, so yeah, I want what I want. Yeah, we gotta do another one because because wow, okay, yeah no, actually I actually just looked at the clock for the first time five minutes ago, and I cannot believe it's been an hour. Here's here's the thing we say, like almost every time we have a guest, like, dude, you gotta come back on. I'm gonna put Ryan and Alex
on the spot here for a second. Can we and Cliff you know I you know you two, you're on the spot too, You're in the hot seat. Can we get this on the schedule like a sap for a part two? Because we know I'm for real, well I know you really, I feel like we just like barely scratch the surface and I'm literally sitting here like I can tell you this is this is what guys, Episode ninety four, this is this is the quiet Nick has ever been on an episode.
And I know that's how I know. That's because I know that I need. I'm not even kidding. I'm gonna be texting y'all every single day, like, is Cliff on the schedule? Like I make Part two? I feel like I feel like a fan right now, like I need part two right now, whenever you want, whenever you want, you know, I'm okay, I'll make room. This is I knew really early on talking with
Ryan. Okay, I'm gonna be there's gonna be a part. I'm gonna be playing some kind of part in this small I feel bad because I asked you like a year ago, and that's just how life goes. And I'm so sorry. You are so humble right now. Ryan is probably one of the busiest people I know. I'm not, like you know, I'm not in his life, but I just know dude has got to be same busy. So I am. But like still, I mean, I hope, I hope. I hope there's no hard feelings over that. It's really all.
There's so much going on and like this, this was an amazing episode. I'm glad it took so long because exactly how it played out now, it wouldn't have been the same. Yeah. Then, you know, by the way, it's my birthday tomorrow, so you guys just made it. Oh my god, birthday, thank you, thank you. It was it was so much fun. This was like tomorrow President. I could have gotten
from y'all. So tomorrow is April twenty six. By the time this comes out, it's gonna be mayor June, because as you know, we are front loaded, absolutely happy. We're gonna travel through time. Here as a today's date, Happy early birthday, and then for the omies win this airs you give him a happy late birthday. Cliff, please tag whatever it is
you want people to find. Okay, yeah, real quick, So, um, my website is Enokian dot today little little probably you know, arrogon to me to name it that because there are a lot of other people but now I bring a lot of other people in so and the for astrology go to your lightbridge dot com and just try to find the email. I haven't updated that because I'm also like more busy than I let on. But I really appreciate you you having me. I've really it was a real honor and
a lot of fun. So thank you so much. It was a blast time. I'm kidding, I'm not kidding. I'm gonna be upset with Ryan and Alex if this doesn't get on the schedule very soon for part two because I need more now. That was so good, dude. I couldn't even say anything because I just wanted to listen. That was incredible, Cliff, thank you so much for coming. Thank you. Likewise, we're gonna make it happen again, Cliff, great, thank you too. That was so
awesome. All right, I wish yeah, you know what to say, right, ye, all right, thank you guys. Weird things happened in the backyard and what so house send I got so weird kind of close your to my heir stages straight up like spiraling on the inside of it. No one knows. Wow and shine Happy