Weird things happened in the Weird Weird Weird.
Welcome to Bledsoe said, so, guys, we I know I always say this, but I really mean it. We have a very special guest tonight, my friend Paul Cinderella, the executive vice president of the Monrostitute and the chief Technology officer. Are you hearing my cat mew Paul I did.
Yeah, that's great.
I'm sorry about that. But before we get into our conversation tonight, I just want to mention to you guys about contact modalities xbo so May one through third, Am I getting that right? Alex and Delavan, Wisconsin at the Lakeland Resort, there's gonna be a fantastic conference. My father, my sister, my brother, and Alex will be there. I cannot be there because I will have a freshly born baby of about two weeks old at the time, and
it's just too much for me to go. But don't stress, because Alex will be there and you know the rest of my family. It's going to be a good time. There's a lot of other amazing presenters there. There's going to be four skywatches, by the way, three of them are open to everybody who purchases that tier of tickets, and one of them is going to be private where people are bussed to an exclusive, very legendary paranormal hotspot location.
By the way, it is sold out, and with their giveaway on Instagram, there is an opportunity for three lucky souls to win a ticket to the VIP private SkyWatch. There's going to be like thirty presenters. There's four conference rooms going simultaneously with presentations going on. While workshops are being done, people are going to be selling really cool stuff, books, merchandise, crystals, doing sound baths. It's really a good time and much
highly recommend you guys check out Contact Modalities XPO. Can you hit them with the website alex Contact Modalities XPO dot com. Awesome, All right, well, Paul, I'm sorry to have to make you wait through that.
No worries.
It's so good to see you man. How have you been.
Yeah, it's good to see you too. I've been great, been busy, you know, which is always a good thing. And there's a lot going on Edmnroe these days.
You know.
Over the course of my time at Monroe, this is really pretty unique in terms of how how much things are just happening in general, just a lot of opportunities coming our way, which I mean, it's just so fantastic. So it's very exciting. Good to be busy.
Yes, And I just have to comment on that that I think that right now Monroe is hotter than it's ever been. It's it feels like it's just exploding.
Yeah, yeah, it really is. I think that's true.
I mean when we look back historically at where Monroe has been, you know, since the early day, since the seventies, you know, it's it's never been like this. And we have people at Monroe who have been on staff for like thirty years, and we are definitely in unique territory here. You know, the fact that we have basically sold out almost all of our campus capacity already for this year as of like January. That's like never ever, you know, even been close to happening. You know, ten or fifteen
years ago. It was often a struggle just to fill programs and keep things going. And I mean it's just so rewarding to see that we're in such a different place right now. And you know, I think it's a combination of things. I think it's obviously a lot of effort intention on our side, you know, intentionally trying to really get this out to the world in a big way. But it's also I think just sort of indicative of
what's happening in general. I think people are seeing what's going on in the world, and I think people are ready for, you know, something more. They're ready for a deeper understanding of, you know, kind of who we are and why we're here.
So it's just, yeah, it's great to see that all coming together.
Yeah, it's it's honestly so true. It's like, you know, you're right that so many people now are seeking something more. They're seeking something profound in a way to connect with themselves, to connect with, you know, the other side, so to speak. Whatever it is that people are are are looking for. It feels like, you know, they find a piece of that at Monroe. I don't know if that makes sense, but it opens so many doors for so many people, and I just I appreciate that about it.
Yeah, I do too.
And I think speaking just from my own experience, like, and I know I'm not unique in saying this, you know it the experiences that I've had at Monroe and kind of on my owners as well, have just changed, you know, the way that I approach life. I mean, when you you know, we get to the core of what Monroe's all about, and it's about giving people this
direct experience that we're more than physical. And like, when you have that experience and it's your own experience, it really changes the way that you approach things, you know, kind of it kind of changes your value system, It changes what you think is import important, changes your understanding of why we might be here, you know, having this
sort of physical experience. But it's such a profound shift, and you know again that that happens to a lot of people, So it's yeah, I mean, I think we're just so ready for this kind of thing because we're we're in this society today and you know, we see how things are going, and we're you know, we're always kind of told that, you know, physical realities all there is, Like science will tell us that, and consciousness is just the byproduct of your brain. And when that's the case,
it sort of leads us to where we are. You think of physical as all there is, and we're just kind of here by accident. Well, it's it's survival of the fittest, it's me versus you and us versus everyone else, and we're all just here fighting with each other for survival, you know, in resources or whatever it is. When you realize that you're more than physical, it just it just changes the whole perspective on this experience, and you tend to move towards, you know, seeing others as a part
of yourself. You know, if we're all part of this this you know, this single field of consciousness, it means fundamentally we're all part of the same thing. And it's not about it's not me versus you, it's how can we sort of work together? It's how can we how can we you know, kind of treat each other with love and compassion instead of just you know, everything that's going on in the world today.
So yeah, I mean I just.
Again, for me, I can't I can't understate how how significant that change has been and that shift has been for me.
Same I would say. And so it's been two years this June. Yeah, it was June that I went to the I believe it was the first ever Creator Gateway and that's where we met just for you know, the listener's knowledge, and it was obviously for me, like whoever is listening to this show. They know that it was
a profound life changing experience for me. But really, Paul, what I'm finding with the Monroe experience as I'm getting more programs under my belt experientially and running outreach programs and you know what they say, it's like to teach us to learn twice, you know for sure, and you run the programs and then you hear all the feedback from the people, and then coupled with you know, this
is a little unique. Most people aren't in the trainer position, but with the training of how to be able to guide people through this long story short, I feel like I've had a very intimate connection with the experience over the last two years that has so profoundly changed my life. And I will say that going through not only the program experientially, but through the training to become a trainer, because what does that entail, right, It's being in close contact with this on the daily.
Yeah, and really getting deeply immersed in yeah kind of the content and the history and the Methodist right right.
It has truly changed my life. I feel like this whole process has informed how I, in a lot of ways, view how I present myself to the world, if that makes sense. And I've learned that the greatest part of them in ROW experience is not even the week that you're there, that's fantastic, but it's the rest of your life after, you know, yeah.
For sure, yep, yeah, you know, it's as people come through programs when you you know, when you go through this kind of shift in your in your belief system and your values, it leads to a lot of change. Like a lot of people find they realize, oh, they didn't want to be in that job, you know, forever, or they want to do something that they feel is more aligned to you know, kind of what they want to do and how they want to contribute to the world.
And I think, again, that's just such a great thing for society to find a way, like for people to find what their true passion is and really be able to kind of pursue that. I think it's just a really you know, kind of special.
Gift, something I think that should not be understated and is such a profound part of the Monroe This is just my words. It's obviously like not official ROW words, but I say, like the Monroe system or the Monroe process or whatever. Yeah, process, process, something that's so powerful about it. And one of the reasons I think that it's so prolific in the world today is because we're talking about experiential universal truth, but very strictly from a
lens of non dogma. Yeah, and I think this has allowed it to become what it is today, you know, with with a notion of being approachable by all. Does that make it.
Yeah, definitely, Yeah.
And I think, you know, being non dogmatic, I think is one of the things that makes Monroe pretty unique because you know, the things that we're talking about that were more than physical, Like, that's not a new idea, you know, that's been around forever in all kinds of religions. But I think you know, what to me is different about Monroe is we're giving people like in the past,
you know whatever, a thousand years ago. I mean, we had religions telling us this, and if you were a yogi and could spend you know, ten years in a cave, you could attain these states and kind of find these things out for yourself. But what Monroe does is kind of put those experiences within reach of anyone, you know, kind of giving people access to these states of awareness that otherwise you'd have to spend years meditating to reach that.
To me, I think is something really unique about this time. You know, in human history, we've never you know, we've
never really been there. I mean, there have been plant medicines as well, and those certainly help people access these states, but generally, like those kinds of things, you know, I think there are people who embrace that sort of thing, but it's not really like a jet like I wouldn't give that to my parents, right, I mean, there are certain people that just don't want to go down the plant medicine route, whereas putting on headphones is something that
I mean we all do all the time. Anyone can do that, and it's a different kind of experience too. It's more, you know, when you're using what we're providing, it's more controlled. It's sort of it's less like you're strapped on a rocket ship and being blasted into another reality, and it's more like, you know, you're navigating your way into these states of awareness, and it's much more in control, and you know, you can just stop at any time.
It's not like you're just along for a ride and whatever happens happens, and you know, hopefully it's good.
Yeah, and that's so true. You know, Like I wrote in my own journal, the first time I did the Gateway Voyage two or three times felt like d MT. And the only reason I know that is because I've experienced DMT before. But it wasn't. It wasn't in the scary sense of like you know, like you said, being blasted off a rocket ship. But it was in that sense of dissolving from ordinary consciousness and then going into
an expanded experience. The only thing that my frame of reference could compare it to was that point being, you know, it's it's profound and and I think that Monroe serves as an example of the pinnacle of like Western culture, the good parts of Western culture. How we like to codify things scientific lens. We're talking about things that are intimately very you know, we can say consciousness based, spiritual whatever, weird, uh, you know, whatever people want to say to classify that.
And I think what Monroe does so well, and the genius of the system is very efficient, efficiently and intimately codifying the process for like you said, like, well, I wouldn't want to give my my elderly father h ayahuasca, you know, put on these headphones, but the power is in the human mind. So it's just so effective. It's it's honestly mind blowing. I could say here for an hour, and I don't want to waste your time. I could say here for an hour, and I could nerd out
to you about why it's so amazing. And I'm always trying to slip it into my show every little every little chance that I get. So yeah, I think you know.
The other thing too, that a lot a lot of people find is the quality of the experience is is different as well. Like when you're you know, in a d MT experience, a lot of times you may experiencing something, you maybe experience something that is, you know, truly profound, but it's like your awareness and your state of mind is so far away from kind of normal that sometimes
it's hard to bring those experiences back. You know, a lot of people feel like they're they're kind of like they're not quite themselves when they're in that de MT experience, Like it's so deep, your your ego dissolves, and you're just in such a drastically different kind of state of awareness that it's often hard to bring something back meaningful
from that. I mean, it does happen, but certainly, you know, it's it can be a challenge, whereas at least in my experience and what i've you know, as I've talked to people, when you go to these states, you know, again intentionally on your own through this deep meditation, you know that kind of we allow through the technology. It's and I'm speaking from my own experience when I'm in those states, I'm me, like my awareness, it feels like this, like I can be an environment that is every bit
is real as what this is now. But I just I know that my body's in bed and I'm experiencing some completely immersive, you know, realer than real kind of reality, and I'm exactly as I'm now. I still have my thought processes, I'm still totally who I am, and that to me is just mind blowing. Like that the first time I had experiences like that, you know, there's.
No going back.
It made me realize that if this non physical reality can feel as real as this, well it sort of you know, helps me understand that this reality. You know, a lot of people think this isn't kind of the base reality in other words, like consciousness is the fundamental reality and this is kind of this virtual reality that we experience together, you know, to have this physical experience. But it proved to me that the richness of this
physical environment is not unique. There's a richness to other non physical environments that can feel every bit as real as this, and that I think is just totally interesting.
That's so true, and that's a great point. I never even like compared it to that or you know, made that mental connection. But like for example, I had a few experiences at Gateway, and of course I just want to you know, give disclaimers for the listeners who haven't enjoyed the process yet. Obviously it's different for everyone, and
everyone has their own unique things that unfold. But like for me, I had an experience where it's like I was an ancient Egypt or I was you know, with Native Americans thousands of years ago, temporal displacements where you know, I feel as if I'm in the past. But even then, like I knew it was me, and I was thinking about how it relates to me now. Whereas like you said, when you do some sort of substance, there's like that dissolution of the ego and like you know, when you
spoke DMT or something like that. You have no clue who you are, you know, and you have a hard time integrating a lot of these things until after the fact. So that's that's a good point. I never thought about that. And then the other thing that I want to add to that why I love them in ROW system so much.
You know, I do have a psychology degree, and I wouldn't say that I'm scientifically minded by any stretch, but I would say that I'm very logically and like a lot of times left brain, I have to understand how things work, and I have to understand the why and the how and all this stuff, and it scratches all of those itches. I mean, as you know, there's so many scientists that get involved and they're just mind blown and they're like, oh my god. You know, I understand
there's a process here in the brain. But beyond that, beyond all those barriers of proof that people typically need to understand something and engage with something, the most important part, I feel is the empowerment methods learned in the program to be able to or any of the programs, really all of them, to be able to switch through the
states effortlessly. Coming from someone who devoted all of my you know, university years to psychology and studying the brain and the mind and how these models work, and you know, the neurology and all that stuff, and then having left the monrostitute, it just completely changed my outlook on what I thought I understood about the human mind.
Yeah, definitely yeap.
And what's cool the experiences you're talking about where you're you're kind of seeing, you know, potentially these past life experiences. Those are really interesting too, because you know, when that happens to me, it's like you get a different you know, what you think of as you is different. Right if you think of you as just like this is all I am, this is all I ever will be, and when I die, that's the end of me.
When you when you know.
Through that direct experience, that's not true, you know, what you think of as yourself changes now you realize, well, there's a there's a you that is all those things. Like you've had all these different lifetimes and there's this bigger kind of story arc of you as as as consciousness having these different experiences, living these different lifetimes for the purpose of your own evolution. So you know, like your whole sense of self really expands to something much
broader and bigger than it is now. And it's like you can put this life experience in a perspective that you couldn't otherwise. Like if you say, okay, well maybe this life is one of you know, one hundred or a thousand, who knows, you know, what what am I here to do in this lifetime?
Like what can I learn from this?
And when you approach it as like this this learning kind of experience, in this in this you know, broader definition of who you are again, it just changes the way that you approach things. Like you may decide, you know, it's it's not about just you know, kind of acquiring a whole bunch of material things like that can't be
why I'm here. If I, if I, you know, have this broader vision or this broader understanding of myself and I have these multiple experiences, the goal can't be to just acquire a bunch of stuff that you're just going to get rid of at the end of your life experience anyway. So again, the things that are important to you and the kinds of experiences that you seek or the things that you value in life, that to me
changed a lot. You know, I started to value experiences and relationships more than you know, things like I can learn from experiences, I can I can learn from relationships. You know, having a bunch of stuff is kind of meaningless at the end of the day.
You know. Again in this context of having these multiple life experiences, Yeah, yeah.
It's profound. I've I've had similar you know, realizations myself. I mean, I think it hits every one of us differently, because you know, it's it's like my words, not Monroe's, but it's like we all have that different karma, you know, the things that we have to figure out. But like for me, one of the most valuable things that I realized coming let me just explain it like this. So I grew up with a dad who was more or less like known around the world for exhibiting psychic abilities
and things like that. So me personally, I grew up with a complex thinking that, well, surely that's not me. You know, I don't have anything like this or anything going on. And like I went to my Gateway and did an intake interview. I'm not sure if they do that at every Gateway. My group was a really different okay cool and in my interview Maya, wonderful human being, wonderful trainer. She was like, you know, what, what's your intention? What do you what do you want out of this?
And I was just like, you know, I'm just here to experience and to learn. Because I called my dad, I called my sister, and both of them, you know, had already been to Monroe a couple of times, you know, like through the History Channel and other things, and I was like, what should I know going into this, And both of them were just like, you should humble yourself because you're going to a place of learning and just be open. And I was like, okay. So I told Maya.
I was like, I'm open. I don't know what to experience. I personally don't believe that I can go out of body or anything like that, but I'm open to it. And you know, that's not why I'm here. I'm just here to have a good time and to learn. And by the end of the week, things happen for me.
People can hear that on my three part series, but you know, a lot of things happened for me that were for me enough to have that shift in my understanding of me, you know, And I was forever changed to where now I don't even know the words for this, where I'll just be laying in bed and it's like, you know, I'll go out of body or something will happen that it's like unprompted, and you know, and it's good, it's positive. It's something that I enjoy and that I
was seeking. But the point is, it's like that complex was dissolved, something that throughout my life I struggled with so bad. I'm not special, I don't have abilities. I can't do this, I can't do that. Went there for a week, experienced it for myself, and I was forever altered in like, you know, the sky's the limit. Now I'm just like, well, I want to learn about this. I want to learn about this. This is possible. You can do this too. Now I want to help people
do it too, and you know, be a trainer. And I know that's not the experience for everybody, but.
Yeah, yeah, well that's great. I mean it's yeah, yeah, it is. Again, I think we've been saying the same. It really does change.
You, Yeah, yeah, it does. I'm curious, like about your journey becoming your role for the institute chief Technology Officer and executive vice president because that's incredible. And you know, I did an episode with Alan and we went into all that and heard her story. But I'd like to kind of hear your story, like how you got to be where you are?
Yeah, sure, Well, I you know, I could say I've always kind of been a seeker, you know, even as
a child. I think, you know, I was always interested in kind of the paranormal, you know, in my teens, deeply interested in like remote viewing and like you know UFOs you know at the times what we call them, and so like all those things were really interesting to me, and I always felt like that that's where that's where we really learned something, like all those things that we can't explain and don't understand, like that's that's where the
real learning, you know, can take place because it's you know, we don't have explanations for these things. So I've always been interested in all of that stuff, and I you know, I didn't feel like religion gave me the answers I was looking for.
You know, it's great.
I mean for many people, it really you know, is very helpful and it you know, if it helps you be a better person, that's fantastic and there's nothing wrong with religion. But for me, I didn't find, you know, the answers, and I'm I'm very left brained, you know. I ended up getting into software engineering, so I always wanted to know, like, well, why does it work that way? Or how how does it work? And I didn't find a lot of those answers, you know, going down that path.
So always been interested into in this stuff. And I think I first read well, I was really interested in remote viewing. And then I remember reading I forget which book it was, but they were talking about some of the remote viewers went to them in Roe Institute to learn how to become remote viewers.
I was like, wow, that's amazing.
So then I from there I kind of got into you know, Bob and Roe's books and read those probably in my late teens early twenties, and that just blew my mind, you know, I I to me, you know, I couldn't imagine like why this wasn't like news, Like why why is everyone not talking about this? Like this is so like to know that you can leave your body. It just violates everything we think we know about physics
and how our you know, bodies and consciousness works. I just thought it was like the most important thing ever, and I, you know, I tried. I kind of dabbled in remote viewing at the time and kind of you know, got into trying some of the out of body stuff, but I didn't I didn't have the resources at the time to like, you know, buy the CDs and really kind.
Of you know, do it that way.
So that kind of continued, and then I got into kind of career and family and got busy with that stuff, and I started my current you know, software engineering.
That was my whole career.
So I started in like big corporate it and then left that and started getting into startups. So I did a series of startups either kind of as a founder as CTO, and it was then when I had the time and energy to kind of really get back into this whole, this whole consciousness thing. It was kind of on the side for a while, and I decided, like I really want to know if if what this, you know, what Bob and Roe is talking about is like legit,
if that's real. So I decided like I'm going to try to do this and I and I got you know, the the the exercises to take the CDs.
And started working my way through it.
So I would do you like, work through the gateway, you know, experience, and do like one one exercise every day. And I kept doing that for months, and I would kind of, you know, go back and repeat things, and I, you know, I kind of really tried to get into it, and I was trying so hard to have the experience that Bob wrote about so like and it's it's so funny because I was just getting in my own way, like so I know this.
Now, hold, I let me get you a drink here, Oh good idea.
I was. I was just getting in my own way with all of these expectations and expecting to like peel out of my body, and every time something happened, I'm like, oh am I going out? Like am I feeling?
I was analyzing the experience the entire time, and that's like the worst thing you can do.
That just that just blocks it.
So anyway that I was doing these during the day and nothing was happening when I was doing the exercises, But what started happening to me at night was That's when I'd have these experiences. And for me, it started with lucid dreams like I just would spontaneously find myself aware in this dream environment and you know again like feeling like, oh my gosh, I'm like I'm in this dream environment. I know that it's a dream, but it's like it's every bit as real as waking reality, and
it almost kind of like feels more real. And so that's where it began for me, and then from there I just kind of got deeper into that and continued, you know, kind of exploring those experiences and I ended up having the you know, a lot of the classic peel out of your body experiences, but for me, a lot of the most interesting experiences were you know, through
you know, I think what Bob would call phasing. You know, like when when Bob talked about his early efforts, it was the physical like I'm peeling out of my body, I stand next to myself, I go fly over somewhere else. And then later, you know, in his explorations, he talked about this phasing model where it's like you're kind of turning off one, you know, one you two, you're tuning the dial on a radio, like it's my awareness is here, and then you know, my awareness can be there.
So for me, it started manifesting.
As like I'd be lying in bed, you know, I'm going to sleep, and I'm aware, and then I see like a scene kind of forming, and then I'm just kind of like it's almost like teleporting, Like the scene starts to build and I go from like being awake in my bed to like now just.
Being immersed this alternate reality in this scene.
And those kinds of experiences again just blew me away because it's it was literally like just teleporting from my bed into like a whole nother reality, which was really cool.
And so again I just exploring those things.
I mean, all kinds of experience, you know, I journaled them for a long time. I've stopped journaling at this point, but all kinds of stuff that proved to me beyond any doubt that I was more than physical and that the things that I were experiencing, you know, had some
reality to them. And I think one of the most interesting and kind of verifying experiences for me was I we were on vacation at the time, and I had two daughters at this point, and we were together in a room were vacation, so sleeping all the same room, and you know, I had this really amazing experience where I ended up being in this like tropical kind of like water environment. So I'm in this tropical environment and
I'm swimming under the water while kind of flying. So I'm kind of flying around into the water and checking things out and seeing kind of like coral and whatever animals there. And then out of nowhere, this dolphin comes like swimming up next to me, and I'm like, oh, cool, a dolphin. So I'm kind of flying around and this dolphin is swimming next to me, and I'm just you know, doing whatever, having a good time. This dolphin is really
sticking with me, like right next to my side. And this experience goes on for a while, and then eventually I kind of come out of it and I come right from that experience, which is typically happens to me. I come right from that experience, and then like my awareness starts to shift back to my body and then like oh, okay, now I'm back, and it just kind of transitions, you know, right back to being in the bed.
And it was the morning.
So I wake up in the morning and I get up kind of sit up in bed, and my daughter's there, you know, in the room, and she kind of gets.
Up at the same time, and I said, hey, you know, how's it going.
I just had this really awesome dream And she said, oh my god, I had this amazing dream where I was a dolphin and we were together and I was swimming next to you, and we were doing all these things underwater, and like we we had a shared experience. There's no doubt in my mind, there's no And she was like six or so at the time, so it's not like she would just make up this kind of thing. We were there and we had an experience together, and we woke up from it at the same time and
kind of told each other about this experience. So like that was one of the experiences that kind of sealed the deal for me. Like there's no way that that was just some kind of coincidence, Like there is a reality to these these non physical experiences. Yeah, So that like set me, you know, as I've had a number of these experiences now, like that just set me on
a different path. And so kind of doing a series of startups, and at the end of the last startup that I was working on, my wife and I decided we were ready to do something different and we sold everything that we own and we moved onto a sailboat and homeschooled our two girls. And your intention was to do this kind of as a sabbatical for like a year, and it ended up being four years.
You know.
So for four years we lived on this sailboat, mostly in the Bahamas. We'd spend like eight months of the year kind of sailing around the Bahamas and then come back to Florida for hurricane season. And during that time I was kind of I took some time off. I didn't work for two of those years, and then I was doing some consulting during that time as well. But coming out of that, this is getting back to the
Monroe story. Coming out of that, I realized, with all of the experiences that I've had and the way that I kind of think about my experience here, I couldn't just go back to like a normal like, oh, let's go do another startup, or let's go work, you know, at a fintech company or something like. It had no appeal to me, like whatsoever. So I knew I had to do something that I really believed in. And during COVID, we're actually on the boat during COVID when the lockdowns happened.
I started working on this this kind of side project that was a kind of a like a pay it forward fundraising platform, so you'd like perform acts of kindness for people and you could donate to charity to thank someone for doing that. And I approached Monroe as one of the charities. I was like, oh, you know, Monroe's great, So I approached them and that began the conversation with Monroe because as I started talking with the folks there, that was at a time when you know, again kind
of mid pandemic. Campus had been shut down and they were trying to figure out, like, how do we take what we do in these residential retreats and bring that online, you know, bring that to the to people in a different way. And there wasn't really anyone on the staff at the time who had a deep technology background, so
it was like perfect timing, you know. I started there just kind of consulting first to help them formulate the strategy around how to use technology to really kind of over the mission.
And it grew from there.
You know, we kind of created this vision for the expand app that was kind of one of the first big things that were really focused on and then we kind of went to the board, got approval, we went out and we fundraised for it and had a donor on the spot gave us a million dollars to basically go after you know, building this app and starting this whole growth initiative.
And that's where it began.
So I came on, you know, from a technology standpoint, and then and then my role has kind of expanded since then, So now I focus on our overall kind of growth strategy, so I oversee marketing and fundraising as well as like some of our strategic partnerships and collaborations. So now you know, I get to focus on like how do we how do we get this out there?
Like that's the most exciting thing to me, is like how do we help more people have these experiences that that changed their you know, their their worldview, change their value system. And so yeah, that's what we've been doing ever since. And it's been a crazy ride. I mean, it's been incredibly personally rewarding. I think it's probably you know,
obviously the part that kind of sticks with me. I feel, you know, privileged and lucky that I get to help people have this kind of experience and see this kind of shift in their own lives, and uh, and that's been amazing.
I feel the same way. And you just hit a lot of really amazing points that I naturally was, you know, wanting to bring up at certain times so we can
address them. But sure, Yeah, something you talked about that was really amazing was the radio dial because I think from the outside looking in just so like just imagine the most ordinary person at home they read on the internet about out a body they've never like tried or anything, and they're like, oh, you know, in their head, they have probably this picture of like you're either in your body or you're out, and it's like you know, Casper, he goes through the wall. But it's it's really not
like that. It's a lot more complex, and it's like what Paul described, and everything Paul was describing is how it happens to me too, where it's like you just kind of fade out and the scene builds and then it's just like you're there and it could be that, or it could be the other thing, or it could be you know, you're seeing from three perspectives. It wants in different locations, by location, trylocation. It's such a complex phenomenon that like, I think it's worth deep study and exploration,
and you know, it's fascinating. It's it's mind boggling, mind boggling. That's a hard word. That's it's mind boggling to see how complex it really is. That it's not just you know what we think it is that that it's more you know, yeah.
That's a that's a great point. I mean consciousness.
You know, you think of this larger kind of reality where consciousness is fundamental and you've got all these different kind of experiences we can have. It's it's yeah, it's
an incredibly rich, you know, kind of environment. I guess you could call it there and I think so much of it when you like we we we're here in this physical reality, and like the way that we measure things is like everything is objective, Like you and I have the exactly if we're sitting in the room together, we have exactly the same experience, like we agree, like there's a table here, and there's a light there, like whatever there is, Like it's it's very strictly objective like
there there isn't really any difference. So what you see is what I see in my experience when you get into the non physical, that same kind of strict objectivity doesn't quite exist. So like that's why it can be different for everybody. So like we may be in the same place in the non physical and you might experience it as you know, like like a warehouse, and for me it's like, you know, something a little different. It's like a storage room in a bil or something like that.
But so it's like we can experience the same thing and being the same place, but there's a lot more subjectivity in this environment because you're in the non physical, like you're in this thought responsive environment. So your mindset, your beliefs, and your thoughts I think play a much
bigger role in shaping what that reality looks like. And it's it's fascinating, like you get I love getting deep into this because I'm a technologist, so I kind of think of consciousness as a technology and try to kind of tease out, well, how does.
This technology work? You know, like how does how's it all put together? I just I just I find it really fascinating.
We just did an episode on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, and oh yeah, I'm not sure, you know, like have you read it or are you familiar with the concept.
I have, Like, yeah, I think I got through most of it. I can't remember if I finished it.
I just threw it on YouTube and listened right. But no, it's very fascinating because it's like what you're describing the the you said it's thought responsive. The whole Tibetan Book of the Dead thing, for example, is like, you know, when when you die and you go into the Bardo layers, that things that you experience are projections from your thought.
And I thought that was very cool that there was parallels there to so many other things, including like Robert Monroe's experience and so many others going into these non physical realities. And you know, I like that or thought responsive, I'll start using that. But yeah, it's crazy. I almost feel like we're in the same location. Maybe for you it's a warehouse, maybe for me it's a park or
a club or something. But it's maybe because that that that thought form is a response that would be comfortable for me, or it comes from me or whatever. It's not so objective. But then when you were saying that, I had the thought, even if we are in the physical reality and we're sitting in the same room and we watch a movie. Did we have the same objective experience? Maybe not, because maybe I was sad and you were happy, you know, maybe yeah.
Oh, things like that, you know, the Mandela effect where you know, it's I mean, it's interesting. I mean there's a lot of I don't know's, there's all kinds of stuff swirling around about the whole Mendel effect thing. But you could you could say, I mean, maybe that is literally people are having different experiences because there is like, you know, multiple versions of this reality. I mean, who knows, But it's it's interesting that there are parallels in that
in the non physical. So like if if the non physical it works that way that there can be subjectivity even though you're kind of in the subjective real place. Maybe this reality is just kind of a subset of that, and maybe sometimes that underlying structure like leaks through into this reality.
We start to see, you know, some of that kind of behavior. Yeah, who knows.
That's fascinating. There are quantum physics studies, experiments, whatever you want to call them, coming out now that are suggesting that behavior in the present can alter experiences and memories of the past, which is actually you know, as you know, something that can happen during monroe'situte programs. My sister experienced it. I've experienced it. People in my outreach program this month or no, no, it was in January, my most recent program.
They experienced it. Where you can have some sort of experience in an expanded state that more or less like changes your I don't know how to say it eloquently, but like changes your emotional response to old memory patterns and traumatic events and things. And it's like, you know, I don't think we're anywhere close to understanding how this
stuff works. It's so profound, it's so amazing. And then the other point that you brought up when you were telling your story about how you got into this position, and it's kind of like one of the most important things that I wanted to talk about tonight was you were explaining that in the early days of beginning your process with the Minroe programs, that you were listening to the CDs through the waves, and then you were talking about how during COVID you came in and you were
more or less consulting, how do we expand this to where we can still operate during the pandemic and naturally you guys moved into virtual programs. Well, now, as I understand it, there's something new that is a part of the Monurostitute experience that I really think is so profound, it's so amazing, and I think you know what I'm talking about.
I do. Yep.
Yeah, we have just launched our Gateway online self guided like video based program. So this this is a bit of a new direction. We've done online before, Like that's not new. But what's new about this is a couple of things. One, it's truly self guided, so it's video instruction and we've got you know, Alan and Luigi, you know, two of our best trainers who have basically kind of
you know, put this video together. And what's also interesting about it is it's based on the residential Gateway experience. This is also new. This has never been done before. So it's the same exercises in the same force format as you get in the residential Gateway, like when you buy the Wave CDs. That was intent that was created to be kind of a commercial product. It's a bit of a different kind of flow, same focus levels, but in a different format.
So this is the it is Gateway. It's the same thing you do in the residential. It's the same exercises.
It's really well guided and it's again self paced, and that's the key because it doesn't require any commitment of time like we do our virtual programs, which have been great, and that's like you take a week and you do the whole thing during the week and you're on zoom like all day. And that's a very deep, intensive experience,
which is great. But many people don't have that. Yeah, many people don't have that kind of time, you know, to put towards it and being able to do it on your own time is really key, and we're trying to reach we're trying to make this available to you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of people, Like we're really trying to get this into a format that everybody can experience it.
The other thing that's really unique about this too, is we have remastered all of the original exercises, So we took the exercise this is that we use in the residential and using the amazing audio tools we have now, we're able to extract Bob's original voice out of those exercises, so it's Bob's original guidance still as it is, you know, I'm cleaned up and remastered, and then we've re implemented all of the you know, the rest of it, the signals and the entrainment and all that stuff, using the
latest generation of our sound technology, Monroe Sound Science.
And this latest generation is very interesting. You know, since about twoenty eleven or so, like Monroe has been the MONROE'ST Dude has been continually evolving this sound technology. So in the early days, it was naural beats and that was kind of everything, and that worked really well. And now obviously we've come a long way in terms of like the kinds of audio technology we have in production.
We've also come a very long way in our understanding of the brain and brain waves and how this all works. So the latest generation of the technology is based on this three D format. This is really exciting because when we're working in this three D format and it's a format called Dolby atmost you might see it like on like Netflix. You know, it's kind of a format that was made to really accurately reproduce three dimensional sound, and we mix it down into headphones so that you actually
get this this virtual three D environment. We have an entrainment signal technique that's fundamentally based in this three D environment that's pretty new. So the signals themselves that are doing the brain wave entrainment are moving in this three D space. And one of the things that makes entrainment
really effective is preventing habituation. So, like when you just listen to a binural beat on YouTube and it's just like a steady, you know thing, forever you start to habituate to it, you know, your brain is really good at picking out the signal from the noise, and when things get monotonous, your brain tends to just dine to dismiss it as just nothing interesting, nothing new going on there.
So in this format, as we have these signals kind of moving around, they're always attracting your attention, and kind of subconsciously, our brains are wired to really pay attention to sounds that sound like they're moving around us in three D. It's like it's like a biological mechanism, you know, that that has evolved to help us understand when there might be threats around us or things that we need
to pay attention to. So we're kind of playing on that evolutionary bias so that we're we're helping your brain pay attention to the signals. So that's one thing that's exciting about this. The other thing that's exciting is when we're working in this three D space and you know, we don't have a whole lot of this in Gateway, but in other exercises we can. We can craft a
very convincing environment in sound. So if we do something like like with a nature soundscape where we put you in like a park and you're you know, we're really trying to build this experience of being in this environment.
The more convincing we can make that sound that that environment, you know, from a sound perspective, the easier it is for you to kind of really embrace it as real and kind of you know, move your awareness away from the physical and more easily project your awareness into this very real environment that sounds like it's like the real
physical world. So the more immersive and the more realistic we can create this alternate reality that we're creating in sound, the easier it is for you to project your awareness into it and kind of recognize it as a real place that you can kind of, you know, move your awareness to. So that technology aspect, I think is really interesting about this, the new Gateway Online. Yeah, I was just gonna say.
The last thing I'll mention too is the price point, because that's important too. You know, obviously our residential and virtual programs, I mean their price the way they are, and believe they or not, there's not like a huge margin in there. Obviously, it takes a lot to run the campus. I mean everything is priced to try to make it accessible, but still they're expensive. With Gateway Online, this new version, we're targeting at lower price points, so
five ninety five is kind of the list price. We're also doing things with scholarships. We're really trying to figure out, how can we get this out there, you know again, in a way that's accessible, so make it affordable, make it easy to use on your own time. That is, you know, kind of an important future for us as we try to reach you know, millions of people with this experience.
So I just want to elaborate on that. You know, again, Paul is in a different position than me, who you know, Paul's whole world is living and breathing Monroe for a number of years, and for me it's new and I'm fresh and you know, so so we can kind of talk about things differently, but like for me, I would tell you honestly, Paul is not pinching me under the
table to say this, He's not even here. I'm just I'm just telling you, like honestly, And yes, even though I went for free my first time as a a content creator, I have paid to do other programs people. So I'm telling the truth. It's worth every penny. It's it's no different than you know, going on a vacation to a resort somewhere or something of that nature. And just just to give you a little bit of defense there.
Yeah, and the other thing I'll just to add to like when you go to the campus, there is something, there is something magical there, and I think it's like you know, that campus has been there for you know whatever, thirty forty years, fifty years, all of those tens of thousands of people like having those experiences in that place, like there really seems like there's an energetic imprint there where.
Like again that massive people that had they're having these experiences like it there's somebody crystal magic there.
Yeah.
Crystals, Yeah, two crystals.
There's two seven foot crystals. I feel as if they're just like amplifying this this this energy. I mean, it really does feel like I mean, you just it's it's a magical place. There's there's an energy there and that's not crazy. I mean it's it's no different than like faery circles in Ireland or England, or Stone Hinge or the Pyramids. This is a thing. This is a real phenomenon.
It's actually called the field effect, where when you enter a certain location that has a certain vibrational resonance that it can have an effect on your consciousness. That's not true, that that is totally a thing, But I just wanted to give you know, the institute a little bit of defense that, yeah, the program is pricey, but it's worth every penny. There's a whole team of people that work
behind the scenes to make this thing flow. But what's so profound about this, this new completely self guided virtual gateway that's coming out is people have to understand that this institute has almost been an operation for fifty years now. It's been since what nineteen seventy one it was incorporated, and there are only two campuses. I mean, it's one campus,
but there's two buildings where people take classes. So you have to understand, at a week program, there is only potential for like less than forty people at a time to do a program, and we're talking millions over fifty years. The sheer capacity and limit that the Monroe Institute has been throttled by, and still the amount of work that it has contributed to the masses is insane. But this new program that's opening for a fraction of the price, by the way, it's going to unleash the floodgates of
what is possible. And I know it, and it's it's going to do so well, and it's a fraction of the price, but the same profound program experience. So I truly feel so optimistic and hopeful about this. It's just going to like unleash the potential into the world. And you know, I will tell you this, Paul, I don't know if I've ever had the opportunity to tell you this. When I went to the Monroe's to the first time, I'll give you my brief little version. Right, So, my
father went with my sister. I was invited. I chose not to go because I had just started my podcast recently and I was just like, well, that sounds very cool, but I'm afraid if I go to this place I don't really know that much about it, I won't be allowed to talk about it publicly. So I'd rather hear you guys do it, and then I'll go next time. And of course that's not even true, but I just I didn't know Monroe, so I didn't know what to
expect or whatever. Then my dad and my sister went again for the History Channel, and then there was a third time they were supposed to go, and by that time, hearing how they were changed what they experienced, I was kicking myself in the foot, like, no, I should have went. I wish I went. That was a mistake. It's like the biggest mistake of my life. Then to turn it down right, And then it was like another year later, twenty twenty four, I got the email I was invited
to come talk about it. I turned it down because I was afraid I wouldn't be allowed to talk about it then, and I never really told anybody that. And then that's how the universe works, that's how fate works. I was invited because I was a content creator to talk about it. So that's that. That was my that was my uh experience with it. And I don't really remember why I got on that story. It had something to do with the with the uh the virtual program.
But right, yeah, the new Gateway Online.
Yeah yeah, the New Gateway Online. But either way, it was just like it was profound and gosh, it'll come back to me in a minute. Oh well I was telling that for a reason, but it just drifted away.
Yep, Well that happens, you know, consciousness.
Yeah, yeah, but no, it's it's just it's amazing what's about to happen with this, with this virtual program, and it's going to it's just gonna change what's possible. It's going to open the flood gates. And I think that, Oh I remember, now, Paul, I remember. Okay, So when I went the first time, I was invited, you know, to talk about it. So I was like, oh, well, this is cool. I still didn't know what to expect. I just went, like I said, you know, open mind,
open mind, I'm here to learn. And it was the first day. I think, when the real program begins, not not when everybody's traveling and showing up and you're kind of settling in. That's that's like day one technically. But then day one begins the next day after your first sleep, and it begins right and and one of the first lessons, they started explaining to us the basically the purpose and
the mission statement of the Institute. And it was at that moment that I knew that this was so profound that the mission statement I might I might not be able to quote it for beatam, and you could probably help me with this. But it's essentially to seek to reach one percent of the world to expand global human consciousness.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's to reach one percent of the of the world's population with a direct experience, you know, that helps them know that they're more than physical.
So that's kind of the idea.
And by direct experience, we mean you put on the headphones and you actually like experience expanded awareness, whether it's through like you know, something that we have on YouTube or whatever. It is, Like we've kind of created the mechanism to try to count all the different places where people have those first experiences, whether it's like in the expand app. But that's something we actually track. Like that one percent is really our driving like ten year goal.
It's kind of the overarching goal for Monroe, Like, and that's how we measure our progress is how many people are we reaching with that new first time experience of expanded awareness that makes them, yeah, open their eyes and realize like, wait a minute, there's something more here and hopefully starts them down that path of discovery.
I always believed throughout my life that it had to be fifty percent, that we had to reach fifty percent of the world, and somehow or another, when just above fifty percent, you know, see things differently, that the tides would shift, and you know, the world will change. And then when I went to Monroe and you guys were like, no, it's one percent, I thought about it and I said, you know what, I like that better. I can get
behind this. You know, the rest is history, and I just I just I love that, and I love the mission, and I know that it's it's so genuine, and I consider myself a part of that. I was already on
the same mission from a different lens. And I do really feel very optimistic and excited and strongly about you know, the new thing that's coming out, because you guys, it's it's like you've been slammed at capacity for fifty years, just churning them out, and it was inevitable that something like this had to happen and the floodgates to be unleashed to be you know, available to everybody at at at an affordable cost. And here's the best part that you know, it's self guided. So if you want to
do it over twelve weeks, you do it over twelve weeks. Right, if you want to do one exercise a week, do one exercise a week, whatever you want, Like, it's it's your world now.
It's profound definitely yep, very exciting. Yeah, looking forward to see how it goes. And we did you know, we did really extensive beta testing with this, so several months where we had you know, we've had about five hundred people now have already gone through it, and we've gotten just yeah, tremendous feedback.
You know.
It's just it's just really well done. That like the and I've been to Gateway a bunch of times and so as I was watching the videos, it just struck me like, how well, how well it's explained, you know, and they think again, we've got two veteran trainers, Alan and Luigi who have been doing this for for many many years, and I think they just they just nailed it so well of explaining like the process and like you know, why you do resonant tuning and how that works,
and like obviously the focus levels as you go through them. So it's just very exciting. And what I like too is there's more. So you know, you go through each exercise and there's kind of a video intro, then you do the exercise and there's a video kind of debrief, you know, So it's structured very much the same way that the residential experience is in that respect. But then there's also like you've got journaling prompts, so there's there's other ways that we can the things that we can
do online that to help people engage with it. So you journal, you can get you know, we've built this sort of AI system that gives you some basic feedback about your journaling based on what other people are saying. So we're really again trying to use like all of the technology that's available today to just you know, make that experience deeper and just help people engage with it more.
That's incredible, man, I'm in the beta. I've been extremely busy, and you know, full disclosure, I also while I was in the beta program, I was on my bandwidth was towards planning my own programs and like trying to run the outreach programs. But I signed into it the other day because I was actually speaking with Emily, you know, the marketing director about getting you on the show, and I was like, oh man, I'm sorry, I didn't get your feedback. So I signed in and I actually saw
there were seven hundred people. Oh wow, Okay, yeah, because it shows the number. It shows the number when he said it, So there's like seven hundred people fleshing out the beta. So yeah, I can't wait to see that. And love the expand app. I use it all the time. It's it's a very powerful tool. And I'm a big fan of Monroe Sound Science. I've actually had Agnaucio Diaz Junior on the show and you know, get just just nerding out about like the sound and how the technology works.
I really, I just really want the people at home to understand how profound this is. And I don't want to put words. I have to delineate because there's two Ryans. There's podcast Ryan, who existed before Monroe, and then there's the there's Monroe Institute Ryan, who exists as a trainer, and I have to respect both systems. So I'm delineating that this is not Monroe Ryan saying this. This is podcast Ryan saying this and a training. You know, there's
a difference in how you communicate things. But podcaster Ryan says that in the ancient past, it could be suggested that what Monroe has perfected in today's world through technology and through the codification of all of these different these expanded states, what's the whole whole objective? Whether it was in Tibet or Egypt, or Greece or Persia or the Templar knights or whatever tradition in the ancient past, their whole thing was about, you know, some sort of profound
direct experience with the other. And maybe you can elaborate on this, Paul. But there's a very famous story that I feel like they probably tell it all Gateways, at least everybody I know that's done it, and other programs too. But there's this famous story. I think it was the nineties. There was a a you know the story, do you want to tell it?
Oh?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was a head of a Buddhist temple. I think he was ninety one years old or something. Like this, and he came to Gateway in the nineties and you know, went through it and he said that, you know, people in Gateway were reaching states in one week that took him years of sitting in meditation, and that It's funny because that quote ended up being in a Wall Street Journal article in the nineties, which is how we kind of you know.
Have it and found it.
But yeah, yeah, that's that kind of sums it up really well. Like it's like you're you know again, like you these aren't new states, but making them easy for like every person to reach is totally new. Like I just I don't feel like there's ever ever been a point in history where that's been that easily accessible and available. And I think, again, what's what's so important is like it gives people a direct experience of the divine and
whatever you think is beyond physical. You know, in the past, we relied on, you know, on religions and middleman and like, okay, you know, the priest is the one who talks to God and you know, you to kind of interpret what's going on. And now it's like you've got a direct line to get answers. And the other thing that I think is so important about this work when you do this is it's not someone else's answers. And that's a really kind of important.
Thing for me about Monroe is that we don't tell you, like Bob and Roh had his experiences and he wrote about him, but we don't tell you, oh, here's how it all works.
And Bob was like, this too, from what you know, people that have been around and you know, people would ask them questions and you know, like why does this happen?
Or what should I do?
And he said, you know, well go find out, you know, go experience it for yourself. And that's that's been kind of the way that Monroe operates ever since. Is it's not like we're not here to give you answers. We're here to tell you how to find your answers. And your answers aren't necessarily my answers because my experience is
different than yours. So it's a way to find like your personal truth that resonates with you through your own experience, and that I think is again is so different than than what at least I've experienced in any kind of like organized spirituality, you know, context, it's it's it's the truth like in those in those cases, there's there's the truth, and this is the truth that everyone has to kind of embrace and.
Kind of ratify. This is your truth. So that's just beautiful to me.
Yeah, that's that's something that I love. It's like, go explore. You know, people have questions and it's like, you know, that's a great question. Find out, Go explore. You know, you have the tools. So this is what I meant earlier when I said that the monro'stitude is kind of like the embodiment of peak Western science. Taking this profound thing that's out there and some other space, you know, non physical realities, consciousness and the spectrum of in and
out of the body. It's taking this very bizarre and deep and confusing metaphysical suggestion and very much through Okham's razor, just narrowing that filter through which we can experience this where you know, I don't have to go sit under a tree in India for thirty years, or sit by a waterfall into bed or you know, Egyptian temple ar etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Those things are cool. I love talking about those things
and studying those things. But that's this is why I was so blown away by Monroe because it's truly just so efficient, it's modern. It's to me, my what you know. One of the things that I experienced in the out of body state was I was seeing myself in the past in ancient Egypt, and I was being told about
things basically in the temple. But in that moment, in that out of body state, it's like information was coming through to me that like there's really not that much difference between that back then and kind of like what happens at Monroe. Like it's it's just the difference is you don't need religion, you don't need dogma. It's universal. This is an ability that's a part of your being,
your multi dimensional nature. And you know, having grown up very super religious, it's like, you know, well I thought I had to believe a certain thing to experience this. Well, no, you don't experience things or have abilities or whatever because of what you believe. It's because of who you are and what you are. It's universal, right, and you can experience this and you can explore parts of yourself and you can still believe those things if you want to.
That's great, you know what I mean. So it opened a lot of doors for me, the Monrostitute process and just everything about it, you know, diving into the culture of the knowledge, becoming a trainer, devoting my life to the process. It just it's been good for me, so that no complaints.
Yeah, very cool.
Yeah, Well, is there anything that you feel like is left on your heart? Or do you feel pretty much at peace with where we're at, because I think we hit all the things I wanted to hit.
Yeah. Uh yeah, I'm feeling good. I think we've covered a lot of ground. I think. Yeah, it's been a great conversation. Yeah, really enjoyed it.
Awesome. Well, guys, before we wrap, thank you for listening. Please I encourage you to look into all the things that we've discussed. I am actually building an outreach website, a website where I can do my programs, but I'll focus on that later when it's finished. For now, I want you, guys to where could they find the app?
Just go to the Monroe website and it'll be there. We've got actually, we've got a new homepage as well, so you know, the homepage makes it easier to find Gateway. So from the home page you'll see Gateway and then you just go get right to it.
Okay. So just to be clear, the new experience, the self guided virtual with all the videos, it's not on the Expand app, It's on the Monroe's.
Website, correct. Yeah, Actually that's a good point. So right now, this is kind of a two phase approach. So right now it's on the website and the way that you take the courses through the web. Now you can use your mobile and it all works there as well, but it's not built into the Expand app yet. But it is going to be coming, and that's that's going to
be kind of the phase too. Like for now, we'll get it live and get people going on the website and then we'll integrate it, you know, more deeply into the Expand app in the future.
Amazing. And I have been authorized to tell you guys that for the first two weeks after launch, you guys will be getting a discount with code BSS all caps b s S, So enjoy, enjoy your discount, go have fun, go explore. I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation. Paul, Thank you so much. It's been an honor. I look forward to connecting with you guys soon and we love you guys and we'll see you next week. Great.
Thank you for having me.
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