194: Holographic Realities & Visualization w/ Cameron Mizell

Welcome to Bletsoe said, So, guys, as usual, lately, we've been just back to back with some fire guests. Today we have an amazing, just insane guest in the studio today. I know Nick and I are extremely excited for this. Alex just goes with whatever we tell him we're gonna do. But before we get into that, I want to talk about what's going on in the first weekend of May and Delevan, Wisconsin. I'm gonna be at the Contact Modalities Expo. My dad's gonna be there, my wife's gonna be there,

And he brought us gibbs.

Yes he did. We're gonna get into that.

Hell, yeah, let's go.

There's a few more things in there, just so they don't get.

Swag you up a little bit.

Yeah.

Oh, we had to swag you up a little bit.

I'm so about it.

Oh hell yeah, I'm gonna put on pan.

Hell yeah, we got another Pan too coming coming soon.

More details on that one later, Omy Society.

I'm mus send I'm gonna send you some other stuff too. I don't have them in.

Per but that's very sick.

Yeah. Oh my wife designed all that stuff, all of it.

Yeah, you guys are Yeah, you guys are the Avengers. Saying that last night work is phenomenal.

This morning he was telling me, he's like, no, for real, you guys are like the Avengers. No, no, you said. You said you guys are like the Avengers, but mixed with like, what's it called the Mystery. I was like the Scooby dostory.

Again, Scooby Dooe meets Avengers. I'll take it. I'll take it.

Yeah, dude, for real. But we're happy to have you, Cameron. You you are so cool. Nick and I have been fans of yours for a very long time. I know you could probably fill in the listener like how deep it goes with Oh, we've been following his work for a long time.

Yeah, I mean y'all know that like Ryan and I are super into metal music and like, we make metal music whatever. But when we were in high school, I mean probably twenty ten or something, uh yeah, yeah, we found this band called Woe.

Me among others.

I think that was twenty ten. Yes, Numbers sounds about right. It was Numbers album. Yeah, we found them and they had this sound that was like nothing that I had ever heard before. Nothing. It was like completely unique, and to me, it was like this mile marker in metal music that was like, we have it was an evolution. Yes, yeah, things are shitt new phase, yes, exactly, a new phase. And then came why does it sound so different? Why does it sound so new? And then that sent me

That's just production in general.

I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, music production in general. I really hadn't done much of it. I've been playing music since I was a little kid, you know, just it just kind of like came naturally to me. But that was the moment where I was like, oh, I can record it and compose, like compose it and make it sound cool and you know, and let other people hear it and learn all these little techniques. And I would just like I'd listen to shit over and over and over. How the fuck did he do that?

Yeah?

Or like you did this thing? Like there's this thing that is like kind of a calling card, this little it's like a bell hit or something. What Yes, what the fuck is that?

Say? Aluminum baseball bet and uh, probably like a wood clock mixed in.

Or you're shitting me verb verbitt the fuck out, you're shitting me.

Yeah, it's literally an aluminum bat sample, maybe pitched down a little bit.

Wow, I know what you're talking about.

You know what I'm talking about. I started to pick it.

Up and like every Woe is Me song on that album, yeah.

Yes, yes, And it was always like like a few like a couple measures right after a breakdown starts. It was like this cool like accent piece.

Yeah, it felt like ye, like.

You get the bass drop, the impact, followed by the reverse there with the woteen yeah dude, yeah, and then a glitch Yes.

I started. That was the other thing. That was the first time I had heard like the glitchy stuff. Yeah.

It was an accidental thing that spread like wildfire through the entire accidental.

Yeah.

It was actually a lot of accidental things happened doing these Woe is Me projects, because you know, we had five to you know, seventy eight people.

There's a lot in the project.

Everybody trying to you know, put their two cents in and me trying to hear everybody and make everybody feel good. And yeah, it's like, okay, well how do we how do we how do we put you know, fifteen breakdowns together and then transition into you know, a single chorus that happens once somehow. So I just started like maybe I'll just paste this over and over until the next part and like.

Oh fuck, that sounds cool. It's true.

Yeah, then you get and.

Yeah, I love it, and it's so true, man, Like that's that's like what we find ourselves doing sometimes to like you, this will sound cool. Bompom. I put a melody behind.

It duplicate literally literally, yeah, you just pick your pick, uh what kind of grid and that changes the U sound of the Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it.

Due.

I promise we won't get too into the weeds, but.

Oh for sure, for sure.

But we can talk about whatever you want.

You can't imagine how many nights like I'd be at his house and he had that you had that like ray to cathode monitor computer, remember, and and you like had odd dacity and he's like trying to like like dude that and he's like listen to the song Salt and Vinegar like we were like deep.

Jeremy used to call it Sultant Vinnie. That was that was his favorite song vin he called he called it Sultan Vinnie.

I named it that because I named all of my solo stuff based on what was sitting in front of me. No way, Yeah, five hundred MILLI leaders is just a bottle of water. You're s very uh yeah, I mean I'm thinking I'm having to fucking think so much all the time, and decision fatigue, constantly working you know with artists and under deadlines, and so anytime I do, you know,

I kind of do the same thing our our friend Raven is like absurdly naturally gifted at like freestyling. It's it's ridiculous. And for ten plus years we'll get together, I'll make a beat on the fly, he'll rap to it, and then I always name them just the first thing that I like, I was like, what should we call it? And Raven goes, I don't know something about of Valley, and I literally it would name the song some some about of Valley, like ye're.

Sick, you know that's sick. Yeah, that's actually a good song sick hook too.

But but but yeah, it was like it was this pivotal moment with with metal music where we were like, oh shit, we're entering a new era and I think you're largely responsible for a lot of you see those trends.

Still, Oh yeah, you're definitely one of the key figures in our like upbringing into this world that that like inspired us to, wow, we can do this ourselves totally.

That's a really important part and that's something that's really special to me is is helping talented people understand that, like, you have more talent than a lot of people I know, like you can, you can totally do this. I'll help you however however you want, but here's try try these things. Just go do it like you could totally do it.

Yeah, were there people that gave you that the same kind of like that kind of like help or grace like coming up where they're because you don't see that all the time, that that mentality that very like selfless giving. I don't know, I feel like the music industry can be a little cutthroat.

Yeah, music industry is very me gimme, gimme, gimme, and nobody needs to know about this. Like if a lot of times you people figure out something that is really valuable, you don't want to tell anybody gay keep it and that you know, while yeah that makes sense in a business sense, it's just not the good thing to do

It's omnisphere, It's a preset on omnisphere. What the hell that's that's awesome. It's just I think that kind of in art in general, any medium of art. I don't know, this is just my personal opinion. Maybe it's bullshit, but I feel like it's like gatekeeping and inserting ego and and and being selfish with stuff like it can taint the process and it can even taint the work.

It ruins everything, it really does. It ruins everything. And it might get you quick success. You might get a quick payoff doing things that way. You might have a good run, but it's not going to lead to anything long term. And it's yeah, it's just I mean, it's it feels innately wrong. And and to answer your question

It's so accurate. Yeah, it's so accurate, like just tweaking with stuff.

And then uh, and then in later years Feldman has been it was was very good to me. James Wizard and Feldman have been phenomenal to me and really taught me some valuable stuff.

Hell yeah, dude, that's awesome. I think that's so important. Collaboration is is so important and it it boosts the magic. Yeah that we were also talking about that a little bit, how we're all like Antenna's you know, I view the artistic process as like magic.

It's it's yeah, for one hundred percent magic, you're you're and and it's something really important for for people with you know, people are tapping into this gift easily. Uh, it is magic. It's really special. And and it's you're you're you're creating you're creating value with your mind. Yeah, and and and potentially immense value, not just in business and money, but you know, to you're changing people's lives.

It's like emotional energy. You're you're like you're affecting people in a de in a soul way.

Yeah, it's it's with literal frequencies. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, you're blasting frequencies that have been designed in a very very specific way through your listener's bodies and they're they're changed by it. Literally, their lives are changed by it.

The more we talk about this stuff. I think about it like telepathy, Like you know, like we're just you're sitting there and then all of a sudden, this this musical note or melody or beat, a rhythm or whatever, a hook, it just comes into your head and you're like, oh my god, eureka, you know like it It's like, yeah, we were talking about it last night. It's like it's a radio and sometimes you're flipping through channels and it's static and then it goes click, you know, when you're

Oh yeah, yeah, you know well, I mean, yeah, you you you connect with a person and you spend some time with a person, or just maybe you don't even have to spend time with a person, you just have just on that frequency. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, people are on yeah, yeah, you can. Everyone's got some sort of vibration going on, and they're probably slightly slight differences, but I mean you can feel it.

And it was pretty wild. You talking last night about the thing that they do in in Nashville. What was it, Nashville rules.

Natural rules, just even splits anybody. Oh yeah, back that. Yeah, energy is yeah, the vibe. There are Nashville Rules just basically says that when a song is created, whoever's in that room does there even splits, and that that can be abused and is abused sometimes. But it's also I think it's mostly a really a really it's usually a really cool thing because people are really pretty hardcore in

Yeah. Yeah, Rick Rubin, Rick, Rick Rubin.

Like in interviews Ultimate Elevator, Yes.

And like interviews and stuff, people like you know, do you do you know how to use like a switchboard?

No?

Do you know how to play any instruments?

Now?

This guy? Yeah, do you know anything? About music production, He's like, no, not really no, Like they're like, what do you do? He's like, I just know what.

I like and I and people seem to like what I like.

Literally, the way, yeah, his book is mind blowing. The way that he got started in music was like he went to a hip hop show and he had heard their album, and then he went and heard the same material live and he was like, this is so much better live, Like it's infinitely better live. How do we capture that on the record? And like he literally had he had never done anything with music production or anything whatsoever.

Yeah, well, and he's taking the time to to craft that, you know, the craft that experience or or make it possible for that to happen, because yeah, it is a lot of a lot of time where you see a talented band perform a song off their album and and you're like, this, whatever is happening here is such a better version. It's because they've just played the song, you know, four hundred times in the last six months and and and they've all gotten so comfortable. It's just there's no

Yeah.

Matty Mullins is now the vocalist in Amberlin, so he's been he's been working with them to like record it's like their classics, but they're re recording with Matt completely re recorded.

Yeah, they just they're just teased one or just dropped on. Yeah, a whole. I don't know if I say.

That is wild, it's very sick.

Yeah, shout out Matty Mullen, snick and eye that that was some more of your work that we were always into. We loved Memphis May.

Fire Sleeping with Sirens.

Yeah, but you're not talking about Kellen quinn, right, Keen.

Kellen McGregor is oh, I was a player of Memphis May Fire, is a phenomenal producer.

Did you produce Sleeping with Cyrus?

Yes, Dagny, I didn't.

Realize that they're still hot, you feel, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like oh my god, every now and then, my wife and I'll be right in the car cooking dinner or whatever, and we'll just throw on that emo playlist and like obviously Sleeping with Sirens is like, you know, maybe it's not emo music, but it definitely fits the vibe and like it's still hits. Everything you made then it still hits.

Yeah, appreciate that it stands. Yeah, it really does it. Does you captured something?

Do you look with hands like houses still hits, still hits? I mean everything, yeah, everything. There was that era, and you know, it's it's a pivotal era for us because we were like teenagers. Yeah, you know, like senior. I was a senior year a junior, and all this stuff was coming out. And that's that's why we, you know, started following your work because we started liking all of these similar bands with this kind of like similar vibe.

What is this?

Yeah, and then we found out, you know, about you and and and it just was so crazy that like when you reached out to me a few months ago, you just like left a comment on Instagram.

I was like, Nick, I was like, no, I'm telling you.

Meanwhile, I'm fanboying, like I'm I'm I'm a literal fanboy for every mutual guys do, and and I'm commenting just like I love being a part of this. This is so cool. I never I never.

Expected how did you end up coming across the Was it just Instagram? Was it like the reels and stuff?

It was Instagram as far as the podcast goes, and all the content you guys are putting out now, it was Instagram just started popping up. I mean, you know, you know how that works. Yeah, but uh, I have I'm certain my my dad and I like we we have always uh watched UFO things, uh everywhere you know that like Hotel TV, you know, yeah, and we've I remember the Bloodstone name from some sort of documentary or some sort of from years back, from years back, years

Oh yeah.

And then I started digging in more and and I heard some other places too. But then all of a sudden, the bloodsoe said, so started popping up in my feed and and just everything I'm seeing, I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes, so yeah. I just start following commenting, and that's awesome, that's awesome.

We've had this book for a while now. Obviously, like a few months ago, we had been hopping on the phone and like introducing ourselves and like having some chats, and we got this on the calendar. So like a little funny thing that's been going on is like a lot of times when I'm posting guests lately, he'll comment, He'll be like, oh, this is so sick. And then I'll comment, I'll be like, come on the show, make

Yeah, it's so cool.

We've been aware of you, you've been aware of us, and it's like the Avengers are just growing growing. It's like when Deadpool was was trying to join the Avengers or maybe like or Spider Man or something like you know, becomes an Avenger. But yeah, dude, and I just like, I'm so amazed by your background with this stuff. I mean, this stuff isn't new to you.

No, not at all.

Yeah.

Kind of throughout my life, I've I've I've had a couple of experiences and and and then more recently in Arizona, you know, after very much so influenced by y'all's content. Recently was the first time that I, you know, set out with what they plan like I wanted to. I wanted to see if I could connect and see something versus you know, some experiences I had when I was really young and are still so like it's first off, it's my young brain. Second off, it's so many years ago.

And it's still dark outs, still dark a four am.

Yeah, and I would, I would. I'd just be out there with my head up for literally like three hours. They'll just keep coming and then and then eventually just stop. But uh, the third night was was the was the coolest one. It was like the finale. I was literally given a finale.

Comes in threes.

Yeah, I mean that my when I was eight ten or whatever, the three orbs the and then this, yeah, the finale was, uh, you know, you know, you're looking up, so it's as if these three orbs in a triangle are going away from me while spinning, and so they're spinning outward, and then one of them disappears, and then the second one disappears, and then the last remaining one stays like like hey, yeah you know, and uh and starts meandering around and then disappears.

And that was the one when you were young, right, that was okay, okay, yeah, the thing when I was young was just this very quick but like very bright, strange and clearly three lights and really confused me because there was a lamp post.

Right there that was creating like the I thought this. I was like, wow, there's a really weird lens flare coming off this light or something. But it is large orb two small.

Orbs, and you probably spent your whole bluish.

Bright, like like the kind of bright that's almost like a search when you see a search light. It's just a really like rays right very blue and and either zipped in or appeared blooped blue or bleed bp bl uh and and then bleeped out, you know, and and uh. And that one was you know, I was I was a kid, and I was kind of having these at the time as I was just going through a weird time and experiencing some uh you know, I was having some realizations in my kid brain like, man, some of

It came to you in a and we don't have to go into anything that's personal that's up to you.

How how nothing is personal?

Okay, well but but from what you've told us, Like last night we were talking about this, it came to you, and this is on brand with these beings. Yeah, it came to you in a moment of trauma. It came to you. You saw it, and maybe consciously you didn't know. And you're eight or ten or however old you were a brain, maybe you didn't know that that thing appearing

Yeah, I mean, at the very least, it completely veered my thoughts into a different direction and I didn't think about that shit again. I was like the Yeah, my weirdo Chinese camp roommate is strange and whatever, and people are bullying me for either not being Chinese enough or being Chinese, Like yeah, I was like I think I was like eight, ten maybe, But I was in Chinese camp, by the way, which was a wonderful experience. I'm really

Whoa wait what? Oh?

Yeah, it was like literal Chinese camp man. We learned how to traditional Chinese painting, ink painting, Chinese yoyo diablo.

And it was a summer camp.

It was a summer camp, and it was I was just kind of I mean, it was all through my childhood that, you know, being bullied because Asian, you.

Know, right of course.

Yeah, And where did you grow up, by the way, Florida, Florida.

Okah, Okay, I want to expect something like that in Florida, but whatever one I mean, I mean, it happens everywhere. Yeah, it happens everywhere. But yeah, I would expect to hear but it is.

It is what it is.

And you know, I wasn't getting the shit beaten out of me. Sure it got jumped once, but the you know, it's normal stuff. But I remember as a kid, I'm just having the realization that I'm so I came from public school. Uh and I'm in public school. I'm getting bullied for being Chinese, and then I go to this Chinese camp and I'm I'm instantly getting bullied for only being half Chinese, which is so racked.

It is true though, it's what kids do. Unfortunately, the kids are like, you're different from me. Yeah, well you're wrong.

And they don't understand what they're doing either.

And yeah, it haunts. And it's also natural for that to really really fucking hurt.

It hurts everybody totally, and and and we all know that, you know, this hurt people, hurt people. So yeah, in actuality, it's like, you know, you've got to feel bad for anybody acting out because you know they're they're experiencing something very painful and they're getting it out of their body in the wrong all the wrong ways.

But you're the target of unfortunate Yeah, that's what I.

Mean all around.

Yeah, And so so we were with we got paired up with roommates in the dorm and uh, and my my roommate was just just a total weirdo and uh, it's just creeped me out and uh, and he was asleep and it was like two am and I'm looking out the window. I'm like, so I fucked at school. I fucked that camp this is and this kid's a weirdo and I can't sleep and then yeah, and then

Cool.

Yeah, it's strong, come on, that's cool as fuck.

It's very strong.

But they they they would just wait for me outside my door, wait for me to come out, so they just start pushing me, and uh and uh. And the very next day I just stood up for myself and and and uh ended up. Not that this is positive at all, but I I was. I continued to stand my ground and stand up for myself. And on picture that I pushed one of them down the stairs.

Oh god, hey, I mean.

Yeah, yeah, so terrible. That not not a good thing, but like it it gave Yeah, it totally changed my course of thought. I gained some courage. I'm like, I don't know what the fuck that was. And I didn't really think about it ever again, or you know, for a while, but it was just a thing that happened, and and I had some newfound confidence and it was more enjoyable experience and and uh and and all throughout life, you know, I've uh when uh, you know, I'm in

I'm willing to bet a lot of that was not satellite. So you just didn't know.

Yeah, I know this now, you know. It's very it's very obvious. And I mean, so all of this is so obvious and so clear cut and dry.

It makes it just now.

Dig this much.

Yeah, and it and it and it makes it It's what a funny situation to have these such obvious things happening and and things that make all of our existence make more sense and and you and with a large portion of the population, you can't even talk about it.

It's true. True, And that's true because of attachment. I think that's because people are just so hyper attached to their beliefs and they cling onto them for dear life.

Also propaganda, yeah, for sure, Oh totally. Yeah, there's you know, very very dark reasons for a lot of things, and usually money driven money, money power driven things, and also uh people. Something I've learned in the music industry very hard lessons is people are usually very dangerous when they've

Yeah, they're like they're like too deep, they're too deep, they're too invested. Yeah, they've like dug their heels in.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it would be it would like blow the cover off of everything to to dig those heels out even a little bit. Yeah. They give no ground whatsoever.

Yeah, admit nothing, deny everything straight out. Isn't that the swat CIA FBI's yeah, the motto.

Yeah, that sounds right, even down to the individual. It's people are afraid to give any ounce of leeway. And some of that is like I think like programming, like especially people who grew up in in like organized religion. Yes, most organized religion is like all the other ones are wrong. Yes, yes, not only are they wrong, and that's what they're evil. And if you go looking at any of the other religions, it'll invade your mind, it'll poison you, and you'll be haunted with demons and like.

And how upsetting that just just the the nature of that statement in itself. Everybody else is wrong, like just on a basic human level. I feel like, without influence, every human would understand that that is not the right way to go about that, Like, oh, that's an incorrect thing to say, right just in general, And but but it's just instantly you latch onto it and you're like everybody else is wrong and I'm right sick.

You'll get a kick out of this. But when I started doing kung fu back in my early college years, I was really still into church because I had just grown up. And I went and I told my pastor that I started doing kung fu, and he told me, he literally told me, he was like this, He was like, you need to be careful if you do any sort of those kind of stances where you get into a trance that's from them, demons will come in you fuck man, kung fu bro, you know forms, you know.

And the fucked up part is that there there is there's a lot of reality to that statement, where yes, you can get into a trance from these these forms and stances of a very meditative thing happening.

But it's a good thing.

And martial arts and also any sort of meditative state or or altered state of mind can be a beautiful if if the person is beautiful and has the intention to connect with beautiful things, then any altered state of mind is a way to do that.

Uh, it's a pathway.

If if you're dealing with a dark piece of shit, who's on a dark path. Then you can also use the states to connect with the dark things to again, both of these things are real. And now you have a person who's saying, don't do them martial arts because you're gonna connect with fucking demons. Bro.

Yeah, it messed with my head for a little while because I had such a love of it. I continue to go, but I was I knew it wasn't true, but it was kind of like it hurt my It hurt to think that he I knew he was it was bullshit.

Sure, yeah, you know, but it's.

Still suck to hear like, oh yeah, I'm being judged totally. You know what I mean, I'm being judged by my superiors.

And well it's like instilling fear in you. Yes, that's the program.

Yes, yeah, same with yoga. He was like yoga gets demons in here. I was doing yoga, you know, and just.

Just the awareness to be like like, oh okay, so like like versions of people like you exist, Like what the fuck? Like how do you even navigate?

You know?

When when you you realize more and more, how how many people are are stuck in a point a view like that? Oh it's yeah, I can't think of the word. Uh, yeah, it's it's it sucks, frustrating.

Oh, it's disheartening, it's yeah, it's it's very daunting.

Yeah, daunting thought it is.

Because how do you how do you break people free from that? It can't happen externally either. In most cases, it's like it has to come from within, right, you have to want to break out of that.

And that's with with most things too, like uh, my my pub guy Jay, uh really great close friend. He he's just even in business in music industry and stuff. He's always taught me. Like it's like, man, if someone believes something, don't even just don't waste your time, just don't even try. Just you have to let people gret if somebody, if the artist. This is what it's about too, because it's really frustrating. If the artist doesn't want to learn about their publishing, you don't need to take it

And that's how they're going to learn.

That's why I learned, you know. Yeah, but you know I mean and and yeah, in this case, it's such a beautiful thing. People are missing out.

I have to ask, because transform your life if you let go, you know for sure. And also, you know, release a lot of inherent fear that's programmed into our minds. But I do have to ask because you've told me now multiple times that your mother is a zim Buddhist or was Is she still practicing?

Yeah?

Yeah, Now what I'm curious about is like, when you were growing up, did she teach you any sort of meditation practices?

Yes? Yeah, It's so funny the I I've been doing more and more, you know, self reflecting and and now that I'm I'm kind of past them. I'm certain I'm past the most chaotic parts of my life and and I have some stability, and and I have the I have time and and space in my body to even think about, you know, reflect on my life and stuff. And it's just so interesting realizing how everything was just laid out to a tea.

Like you can see in the orbits as a child, all of it, all of it.

My dad, my dad, you know, uh, he found it very important to teach me how to draw three dimensional things.

That's awesome.

The Orthodox Pentecostal.

I was Pentecostal growing up.

Yeah, I think my my popsle is Lutheran.

I don't know. We went to Anglican and Greek Orthodox. That was like the two Anglican is like it's like diet Catholicism kind Yeah, it's like you say, like the you do the creed and you say all the like there's the hymns and you do like the traditional communion where you like have to go and kneel in front of the thing and the the deacons are wearing the robes and stuff. But it's hilarious because it's like in Gray's Creek, North Carolina. So it's like or fall, who

I can't stop thinking about Scott's staff ever since you said Creed. I completely glazed everything you just said.

I was like, I extremelessly love amazing.

Uh Me and a buddy Evan McKeever producer friend, we always say, praise our Lord Scott's stat.

That's so cool though, that she brought you to like every different kind of church.

Yeah, a bunch of different types of church. And she let me make my own decision, and I think my own decision ended up being like this is this is all interesting, but I kind of like what we do at home and what what I see you doing, and and uh I, I I always felt like it was it made more sense to look inside, not worshiping yourself. But you can look inside for spiritual connection and you don't necessarily have to be doing these things that somebody

That's like the Chinese aspect of the sacral exactly is where dantean. I've heard that before.

It's where it comes from. Okay, all all your energy and your body comes your cheek comes from your dantiane and and that's where you know, you see a lot of.

This the lotus post. Yeah, I sing your energy from I'm with.

It dantian And even in breathing, you you breathe into your dantian and then let it up into the top of your lungs, breathing in here and then push it up to your lung.

So you learn from a young age.

Yeah, yeah, totally, because she she was just trying to get me to you know, breathe through asthma attacks. And and also when I'm amazing, I was fucking you know, adhd as fucking and h wild, can't stop moving, so she would try to get me to calm down with breathing techniques. And also I was her guinea pig through acupunctures school.

And it sounds like an amazing upbringing.

Truly an amazing upbringing. She she you know, had omani podmeome uh throughout the house a lot.

Bro.

That is so like profound to me right now.

Yeah. And and I of course, you know, like as most of us do as piece of ship kids. You know, I was just like, whatever, this is cool. You know, it's interesting. I don't se anybody else, you know.

He reminded me of two things right now, because I'm a big anime nerd bro, and I relate to like I feel like it's gonna sound so cheesy, but I'm being dead serious, bro. Like my entire life, a part of a core facet of my personality has been shaped by Eastern arts. And like I've talked to people before that have told me they're like, I feel like you were a monk at a past life, and I'm like, oh, probably, dude, but like I I relate, so like, dude, come on, I mean we got to look, you know, the only

Have you seen it's yeh yeah, where.

They do the breathing.

It's very cool. You should check it out for that alone, just just like how they like focus on their uh concentrated breathing or whatever like gives them strength. But then another one is Donna On, which is a recent one that just started coming out, and it's.

FA's it's hyped's so crazy. It's on the nose of this show. It's like this anime was made for this show.

Bro. They even talk about Skinwalker, like we've been on Skinwalker. Oh ship, Yeah, they talk about Yeah, like the dude the boy is like a UFO nerd and he has it just like push her glasses up and he's like there's the Skinwalker ranch and there's this colonel that talked about this thing in America and they talk about UF he's obsessed with you. And then there's a girl. Respond there's a girl whose mother was like, uh, like a

Like I got this tattoo because it's like I've seen that all over the place in my house and and I like the message, Yeah sick.

But then you think on it later, You think on it later, and it's like, really profound.

I stamped myself with something very profound and it probably changed my course a little bit. Do and stuff like that.

And you put a sacred seal on yourself, yep, and uh.

And yeah, looking back at all of this, I just realized more and more every single day when I reflect, like all these all these little things directed me exactly where I am right now. And yeah, yeah, it's pretty well.

It's really cool. How like almost every what about the music thing? Did that come from either of your parents?

Yeah, my dad is a master blues guitar player and uh and he uh, basically like he he forced me to start playing bass to ensure that he had a jam buddy.

No, that's amazing, that's goals.

My mom put me in piano and then my dad was like, learn some basslines.

So we can jam. That's uh.

And yeah, he would make me jam at least a couple few times a week.

And that's awesome. Blues too. Of all things, how d end up in metal?

So because it's sick, yeah, short, straight up, it's uh. We talked about this like a sick like break down, a sick heavy riff. There's nothing like it makes people react to it the same way like a hard ass trap.

Beat does that's it, dude?

Yeah, And and it's the same feeling, it's the same, yes, and the stank face yeah yeah, but the same with funk too for me for sure, the same.

Stank face punk for sure. Yeah, there's there's lots of Yeah, so there's these styles of music that make you feel that way.

It's just rhythm bro.

So I was, I was super band geek through high school. I was in jazz band, I was in I was to show choir, saphonic orchestra, marching band, the whole nine yards chamber choir. And where am I going with that? Spaced out? It's my ston or brain.

Progression of metal.

So so I went through these weird phases like I was. My first obsession was this band called space Hog space Hog.

I haven't I haven't cranked that one.

You haven't cranked your space Hog?

No, I haven't serious.

I can't remember the name of the song. But from there I got into uh Ska.

Like I had a really interesting that was that was big at a certain time. It was just blowing up iby and and.

And then that kind of morphed more into like the heavier versions. It's a little bit of punk and and Smarauanchi stuff and like op ibby so, like you listen back to those albums, you're like, these guys are recording badly in a garage.

This is so bad. I love it.

Like that was this working, that gritty.

Stuff that was the vibe. It's sick sometimes though.

And and then I think in sophomore you're sometime in high school. I think it was right around when I got my license. Just a buddy showed me.

RJ.

Palumbo. He was in the show choir band with me, and he's like, hey, check out to seven Dust. Oh yes, And they showed me stained and stuff. Oh legend, and and I just yeah, it was that, like, you know, like seven Dust. It's the closest thing to a breakdown I can think of before breakdowns were a thing, you know. And yeah, and and they they do the I kind of I did an iteration of what they do with the whipping. Really they do that in one of their songs.

Oh so you heard that and subconsciously you were like.

Let's make it crazier. Yeah, sounds metal.

That probably a bat Let me find a bat noise?

Uh So that kinda the I mean, I did get into rock stuff in high school, the hard rock stuff, and then then I ended up in college. I was in a pop rock band or like all band called Last Winter, and we had we had a lot of success, and we were on MTV and Laguna Beach and nice. Yeah that we did like a. We they made like virtual versions of ourselves for Virtual Laguna Beach. We played virtual.

Shows and that's a little on the nose.

Yeah. We were on My Super Sweet sixteen with Teana Taylor. No what did you play saying, oh, hell yeah, a lot of pressure? You played yourself? Yes, yes. And we started doing some tours and and I quickly realized, like this sucks, like this, the press, the I I like, I I just bow down to to when I meet those like born frontmen or front of people.

Yeah.

Uh, I'm so impressed when people just have that thing where they can command a crowd. They have there's not a where they literally come to life on stage, like the pressure and all and all of that energy. They that's when they when they feel most at peace. And I, on the other hand, am like this is terror. This is pure fucking terror. I black out the entire time on stage. Can't even remember what happened.

You sounded grade.

I don't fucking where am I? You know?

I'm like that too, man. I just I just officiated his wedding back in September, and I swear I blacked out and.

At the end I was like his wedding and it's same thing, blacked out, Yeah, let me get through this ship. Yeah I hope I did okay, so like.

So so so yeah I did that. And then the production thing started getting more and more attractive because I was producing my own band stuff and kind of learning that way because we're like one person was like, well, I guess we should, you know, record some of this music. It's pretty sick and and uh, you know, before we had some success and and we contacted like one producer and we're like, oh man, that costs a lot of money not doing that. So I was like, fuck, I

Yeah, dude, yeah, so I hear this.

You know, these recordings even like like seven does some of the older school stuff. I'm like, man, this makes me feel like like amp the fuck up. And you know, like the tr that beat, but why does it sound dinky? You know, it sound kind of you know, sorry, kind of lame. You know. Yeah, It's like, why does the snare sound like it's from the fucking forties? What's going on here?

You know? And and so juice this up.

Let's blast ten dbs of one hundred and eighty K and see what happens.

Yeah.

I love that about your production, man, because like, especially back then, it's it's cinematic, it's it's I feel like it was the carving into the metal scene with that like that high production feel, because back then it was all like, bro, you have Yeah, it's gotta be wrang, it's got to be low fig It's like. And then a lot of the stuff that that you started putting out, it was like, oh my god, there's all the synth and they're singing, and you.

Know, like it just changed every orchestra.

Yeah, the orchestra.

I've always obsessed with or with orchestral things, so that just started happening naturally. Is it is basically just like okay, but more, you know, okay, more is more like how do we make it heavier?

Guess more of that thing? You know?

Yeah, for sure, Yeah, it's true. It was just like its own thing.

You're like a pioneer in that regard.

For sure.

You are a pioneer in that regard.

Yea, definitely.

I'm just speaking facts.

I'll never forget the first time I heard organ in a breakdown and what's the.

Parcord? Yeah, I enterre. A song on the album starts as an organ and then it leads into I was like you dude, because heller high water.

See the first The thing about that is that this was the first time I realized like because the mentality was very much it's gotta be raw. You got to stick a shitty mic on a cab, you gotta like use whatever mics you can't, but it all has to be real and it has to be raw, and it doesn't matter if it sounds like ship. Yeah, it has to be real and raw. And then your ship was the first time I heard where it's like, this is the we're priority tizing the sound above all, the experience above all.

Nothing else mattersh lyrics you know a lot of trash lyrics, and.

I mean the old stuff. Yeah, it's like as long as it sounds fucking sweet, Like, who cares about anything else. If you want to see real live music, go to a show, well that right.

The The other thing was like if you if you stand next to a rock drummer on his drums that snare, when he hits that snare, you feel it hit you in the gut. And then you listen to a recording and you're like, why the fuck isn't it hitting me in the gut? Is it sounds like a piece of paper. So you know that you you just you look at the wave for him. You look at what's happening in a you know, spectral analyzer, and you can see that

People will kill that.

It's weird. It's weird, and that's it.

Snares the most important part of the kid.

It's because of this obsession with trans making things transparent. Like the a pro sound is to make your your make your your your color transparent, make your compression transparent EQ so that things feel transparent. But you can't do that with drums. You you need to get knocked out

Yes, yes, it gets that twang, it gets that crazy gnarly twang on.

It, and uh, and you know it's not for everybody, however, Uh, the entire music industry has seemed to adopt some of these sounds into not only rock country now is using the tanky drums now and really oh yeah, and uh you hear it and pop a lot. Yeah, it really did it. But really what happened was and I see it all the time still like some of the older school guys, which by the way, I think it's just

And it's another name that was pivotal first growing up. We never don't know him.

Yeah, Sturge is great.

Stuff.

Yeah, it was, yeah, very very influential. I think it was kind of I.

Think you guys in that era were like these Titans and this and this totally that we're just pushing.

We're pretty much the only ones who could give you the sound that that sound.

Yeah, it was fully the two of y'all. Yeah, absolutely, I watched every video on YouTube I possibly could.

And it's really it's really interesting too, because our sounds are very different. They are, I would I would say Joe's probably more consistent with his sound. I was a little bit all over the place, but like the the a similar thing is happening. It's like, why isn't angry music supposed to fucking punch you in the face? You know?

Yes?

And the cinematic in the cinematic vibe, big, big, larger than life. Yeah, put all the things more and more.

Yes, absolutely, Stone of Brain. That that that Prada album Roots Above, Branches Below, that was one of the first things I heard with orchestral stuff in it too. Yeah, And it was right around the same time as like Numbers was coming out. Was like, what is happening? I just like felt the shift happen. Yeah, Oh you were talking about like some older guys playing alongside the modern guys.

Oh yeah. So so it's I mean, it's obvious you see the way a style of sound influences somebody in real life. So you have this guy jamming some of his new stuff and it's done in the older style, and then this No Name band with this newer recording jams their stuff and everybody in the room all of a sudden, you know, and and you can literally hear the from the from the you know, the guy with the other recording. So I think it's just there's no

It captures the the intention. The intention of like metal music is to be in emotional. It is like a high fucking emotion and yeah, I think something that you said to me last night was like that kind of music is the hardest thing to do. Yeah, And I think it's because of that, because you're not just trying to capture a good sound. You're trying to capture that fucking feeling yeah yeah, and that emotion, and you're trying to elicit.

So many elements to make it to make it sound the way it's supposed to. There's h B jillion things going on at once, and when you think you're done with the track, there's still more post production to do. Those What Was Me albums, it took me like forty five to fifty days with band in studio, then they leave, and then I spend another two to three months, you know, nerding the fuck out over this?

Are you working on just that in that time?

No, I'm losing my mind with another band in and coming in early, not sleeping, going on benders, like working on shit for four days straight, and some of that, some of that psychosis probably made some of this.

You know what that that that phenomenon brings me to another. There's two more things I feel like we have to talk about before we wrap this today, So if y'all don't mind, I want, of course lay up some other questions. So I think two things that we need to talk about before this raps cam is we got to talk about when you started going out of body? Yeah, because

Yes, Oh my gosh, yes, yes, So let's.

Let's go into the the the out of body thing. So how old were you when you started spontaneously going out of body?

I wouldn't call it spontaneous?

Uh?

And and it was even though it's the same a similar place, if not the same place you're going to. Uh, it's uh, it was a dream thing, it was. It was very much so a lucid dreaming thing. And hm hm so so I grew up with without the internet. I also, my parents are fucking amazing people and they're they're genius. Uh you know, Unfortunately life is is very difficult. My my mom's severely traumatized from her childhood growing up in coastal Taiwan village just after the Japanese invasion. Her parents,

They really like just decimated villages and yeah, yeah had the country like completely under controlled during the war.

Yeah, Like my my grandma just like without flinching, tells these stories. Yeah, you know it was I was dragging my my friend for what felt like myles and I looked back it.

Was just half her body.

That's horrible.

Yeah. So so there's that, you know, that's past that my mom experiences. Uh you know, was was in a lot of that or post you know.

And so so my.

A lot of my life has been fucking chaos, lots of violence, extreme violence. Uh and and I've just kind of witnessed a lot of things that probably shouldn't have some really horrific deaths. I've I've been in some wild car accidents. I've I should have never walked away from like matrix style flipping six times and my whole front side of my car being squished down. I'm like this, there's blood spattered all over the inside of the car.

Bro he drove off a cliff and boone, no, and fell what was it like six hundred feet Okay, a few hundred less.

But uh yeah, and that that one was that was that was my most impactful out of body I'll tell that one. But uh so. So Yeah, as a kid, I'm I'm I have all of this really artistic and spiritual and also you know, influence from a scientist. And I'm also in a very complicated, rough home life. I am just introduced, you know, I recently introduced it in second grade to public school, where I'm immediately like, this

But uh.

So there's all this time. Like my sister was always like, Cam, let's just let's just go in a room and just chill. Let's just think about stuff. We go out by a tree and just like say nothing for hours and just kind of chill. And and it is that those kind of experiences where you don't have you don't have a phone, you don't have the internet, you don't have anything to distract you. So I was just draw all over my walls.

Other direction, like it like it hurts my t.

Yeah. So so like I still do that to this day, you know, if I'm waiting for something or at the d m V, I'm just like spinning objects and building these objects. And and you know, in hindsight, that's I'm tapping into. I'm exercising a muscle that is meditating, that is based on the ether, you know, uh, And I'm I'm creating. I'm creating what feel like physical things in my head that I can manipulate and move around.

And and then.

And then I started to also at a young age, maybe around the you know, the Chinese camp and you know six through you know, to up up into almost teens. Maybe I would start to uh, I just I I started thinking, you you got to be like, dreams are really sick. You must be able to influence what kind of dreams you have, Like what if I just think about some ship that I want to dream about?

Did you just do that intuitively?

Yeah, because because I started having flying dreams young, and I think that was a lot to do with swimming. I was a swimmer from age sixth to Olympic trials.

You went to Olympic trials.

I was training for Olympic trial. Burnt out, but yeah, yeah, it was very very serious in my life. And so all this swimming I think influenced this. I was always flying in my dreams, and it was a swimming thing, and it was always a danger thing. There would be danger, so I'd be like fuck and I'd jump up and I'd start swimming as hard as I can, and then

Uh.

But basically, like I can't remember. I think I just grew out of thinking about that, probably around ten or something like. It wasn't you know, I was more interested in Ninja turtles, and then booths and then you know whatever, it just happened, yeah, and then and then in college so so so basically I'm I'm lucid dreaming.

Like I know, I'm dreaming.

I'm able to fly, and I can as a kid, you know, I can choose the things I want to dream about. Like roughly, you know, I would go to that place you know. And and then in college it was really weird time for me. I was super depressed,

Wow.

And and then there's the spire where I would I literally developed my flying abilities in my dream because every time I would start lucid dreaming. Of course you want to fly every every time, but every single time I'd be like, what if this is the time I'm not dreaming And I'd jump off this cliff and I splat. You know what if I can't Superman's time.

So I would get.

Really really scared about it, and like I got a first off. It was it was so physically tasking to do the swimming thing until you're flying. I'm like, I want to fly like Superman, I want to fucking you know, like Neo just.

Takes off exactly.

So there I would go back to this spire, this

Uh.

And and yeah, there's other places, but those those are like the most significant places where I mastered my my lucid dreaming flying ability at the spire and then the place that I perceived as my old apartment or something.

And and you could like consistently revisit these places in your.

Dream consistently consistently. And there's some other places. There's there's a waiting room I went to twice and this this one is bananas. This is not something I did on purpose. It's just I ended up here a couple of times, and I'm in a I'm in a small room and it's like it's staged strangely, like there's a desk here for no reason, and there's a table in a lamp, and there's other people in the room and they're all different time periods. Wow, whoa other people in the room,

I was in a.

World very similar to ours, and I just floated down and I was in a cul de sac. I was in a neighborhood at the end of one and floated down and and I start looking around, and in this particular one, I am an orb. I don't have my body, and I'm just cruising looking at stuff and I see like I see like kids toys, you know, out in the yards, and there's homes and there's always there's just something weird about every little weird like the door sizes or the size of things was kind of just strange.

It's like, yeah, that's what it is, like real.

Yeah. So yeah, just these these really he's really amazing lucid dreaming experiences. Places I go back to that were

Oh wow, just depression, just like rock Bottom.

Yeah, yeah, it is super bad. And I and I I went, I went to a dark place, like I fully dove into this hatred for you know, just some classic bad things you experience in the music industry or you you know, you spend enough time there, you will Wow. And so Eliza was the first person that got me out of my apartment. Wow. And uh, and I mean she fucking healed me. She she she helped me become a human again. And and she introduced me to her family and uh, and they all they all changed my

Trying.

I start trying to stop drinking, start trying to get my life together. Do my adult things get back on track, because man, I went, I went real hatred, real dark for a while, and it takes you to terrible places or voices. Definitely had demons. My my mom saw me one night, uh, basically putting my body through the door. I was just smashing the door down and I looked

Yeah, the experience.

I'm sure. I'm sure there's probably the situations that it's just best if we don't reveal about that.

Sure, there's yes, we'll talk about it all, you know. But but like so, I remember Mattie Mullens. He he he talked me through a lot of it, and and he one day he's like, he's like, Cam, it's it's terrible and everybody feels bad about this. And I know this is terrible, but it's your responsibility to to not let it blacken your heart and to to be the light. And I said, in that moment, I said, fuck that, I'm going dark.

Oh wow.

And and like I let demons into me, I totally invited it in. I had roommates who like, I was hearing voices in my room all the time. I was tap, I was hearing I'm seeing music and like radio frequencies like I would. It was a crazy time, crazy time, lots of voices. And I had a roommate who just out of nowhere said one day, hey, Cam, like I don't want to alarm you, but like I was, I'm I was in your room the other day. I'm literally hearing voices in your room.

Oh my gosh.

So so yeah, So there was this huge transition to letting the light back into my heart and accepting, you know, things from my past and reflecting on on the the really rough stuff that I've experienced and seeing the beauty that came from it. And and so I'm like, you know, I'm I'm I'm stopping drinking and I'm getting my life together and I'm getting this really good influence from Eliza and her family and and uh uh you know, but I'm still being a piece of shit. I'm it takes time, you know.

Yeah, so like it's like a shedding. It's it's like it's like a lotus unfolding.

It's it's layers totally, Yeah, peeling, peeling the layers.

Yeah.

And uh so uh, I'm I don't have a license because the the last time I got arrested was for DUI and it was so traumatizing going into that that desert military prison. I just decided I was never gonna drive again. So I didn't have a license. I'm driving around my girlfriend's car that like, in front of her family. They know I don't have a license. I drank heavily the night before and then I go early morning, I'm like, I'm gonna take a drive.

Guys.

You know, I'm just I'm just being I'm still I'm on the right path, but I'm still just in my idiot brain. You don't even realize, like you fool you like these people, right, you're making it like what were you doing? So so I'm driving around and you know, no license, and this is like third day in a rows, like holiday or Christmas trips or whatever. I think that's

Mmm.

And I've experienced that before. But but I didn't drive off the cliff.

I corrected. I corrected around this way. Terrify, I went around this way, couldn't correct quick enough. I just went right off the right, off the edge of the cliff.

Oh my god. And uh, there's nothing scarier.

Oh yeah, I'd like and I blacked out from the adrenaline, but I could still hear and I remember hearing the like off the edge like a ramp, literally a ramp. And then I was just free floating and then completely blacked out. And I woke up and I'm looking out the window and nothing makes sense because my car is like I'm looking at the ground like the trees had

Fuck.

And then the cops came out and and you know, all everybody came out that they had to get a crane to you know, lift it out. They said, if if I had if I had hit the tree like a few inches the other the other way, that I would have had an engine block in my lap. And I didn't have a fucking scratch. The the you know, the the paramedics of my blood pressure was a little.

High, and then the cop was like, breathing was a little fast.

And the cop was like, listen, man, congrats for you know, being live. I got a ticket, you bro, you don't have a license. You know.

It's like you can't be driving around.

You can't be driving without a license, bro. And and I'm like, yeah, I'm a piece of shit, you know. And uh So there's this there's instantly this feeling of like, yes, I got run off the road, but I was just just constantly being a piece of ship leading up to that. So this all happens, I'm kind of in shock, and I had I was right in the middle of doing

That's crazy? Come on, that's crazy.

I just watched it for the first time a couple of months ago.

The ending of Contact, I'm telling you, is just like that. It's kind of and it's blue wild.

We're going to talk about contact later.

And I'm going through the mountains and I'm like, so my brain, I'm just trying to I'm perceiving things the way you would as a human experiencing our normal human life. And I'm like, oh, I must be in the car and I look down. I'm like, I don't have any lakes, and I'm like, I'm in orb and I started I was like, this is like, this is just like in Halo when you're creating the worlds and you're just in the forge. Yeah. I was like, I'm I'm in Forgeland

Yeah.

And I mean, these are They're just beyond any doubt. These are places I'm going to, whether it's the out of body the near death experiences. I've had some overdoses by myself that are really difficult, but it was the same same realm. And I just look back on all these experiences and I'm like, I'm going to the same

There's pleasant ways to get there. There's very unpleasure shot trauma, but it's real.

Drugs, it's real meditation, working out, you know, like all of these things.

It's like music music. Oh, I'm it's it's like in uh doctor Strange when she like punches his his like consciousness out of the Yeah, it's like contact, but then he can later do it like at will. It's it's like there are shocking, crazy ways that are will force you into that state, or there are ways to get there willingly. But it's all like the same place. So you had like a familiarity you just knew.

At this point in my life. I'm very like, I'm I'm so I it's a it's a it's a it's this beautiful place where you you're completely at peace because there's you feel none of the things you feel with your with your body, like anxiety and and and your chemical things, all the all the chemical things that your body makes you think you want to do or or that makes you feel.

It's all chemical mind tricks.

None of those. All those are gone. You're just you're just at peace. But I could still I could still perceive the sense of like humor and joy. Yeah, yeah, I talk.

Forever and fuck you're gonna tell me that?

Okay. You guys know the Hopie, like the Native American tribe. Yeah, yeah, they have an old legend and it's like that, you know, it's like an old hope elder would tell the story where it's it's back in the in the original world before being on Earth, when we're all just spirits of light and we're hanging out, and it's like they're observing that there are spirits that hop down into the Earth

Earth a little bit, you know what I mean?

Yeah, And like every culture has some iteration of that.

Broh.

Yeah, you know that there's a familiarity with the other side that like you're really just kind of incarnating here for a temporary, tiny, little amount of time. Maybe it's millions of lifetimes, maybe it's thousands, I don't know, but in the span of everything.

Maybe it's eternity.

Yeah, but but really it's just a spec yeah, compared to like the real existence, you know.

And totally it's deep.

Your experience is very profound.

That is shocking.

WHOA.

Definitely get the sense that we were always going to cross paths.

And and you know, you guys have already been influencing my my decision making and at soapbox uh and uh and implementing you know, binormal three D mics.

And we've been influencing that uh.

Yeah. Just like the.

Talk about Monroe Institute, Oh wow, Like you know, we're sitting here talking about frequencies leading you into these meditative states where you can go out of body, like, yeah, makes perfect sense. You know, they've done the studies, they've they've they've spent a long time perfecting this, and you're you're deeply involved with them. And I immediately took such high interest in that, and I and I started researching selfagio frequencies and how they relate to also chakras, and

You know, dude, it's I noticed the same thing. And I would try like boosting some of those like soulfveggio tomes, and they would like resonate and do weird stuff. I showed Emily. At one point I recorded a video like look at this, Look at what happens when I'm like boosting this specific frequency. It would start like spiking like crazy and resonating. And then yeah, I noticed the same

A physical kit, when you boost us frequencies, it hits you in the body.

And yeah, and like according to where like the chakras are even aligned on the body, Like.

If you open up a signal generator and you you you know, you put in three hundred hertz, you can dial in a specific blast that you're going to feel that frequency hitting you exactly where the shop is.

Aligned with those chalker's too.

Yeah, that get it now, because each sogo is is aligned with any specific chocerate. And yes, you feel it so interesting.

You see all these things and it's like, how how can anybody possibly call any of this stuff?

It's scientific?

You can experience it literally right now in your room, you know.

Yeah, yeah that's true.

So I mean amazing. So now we're going to weave back. So we talked about how when you were growing up as a kid and your dad was teaching you about like three D imaging in your brain, which now we know is just a meditation practice. You're keeping your left brain very focused. You didn't know this consciously, but it's what's happening. You're keeping your left hemisphere of your brain so focused on visualizing this model that the right brain

You haven't said earlier with your band that you they were creating like virtual versions of rightes.

Yeah, yeah like that. Yeah, how weird of a thing to happen. And that was a while ago. And they did this virtual Laguna Beach and they're made virtual cam and I could virtual cam, played a virtual show.

And now you're working with Soapbox doing yeah, like an advanced version of the same thing, and working with three D polygons, and it's like, yeah, your destiny. I've literally.

Also for years of my life, I was a sculptor for a creature shop. Cool, no way, very cool, sculpted like U effects prosthetics.

That's amazing.

We have a friend who's a very talented sculptor one and a massive fan of you as well. Really yeah, he would lose his mind. He Angel.

What's the name of the band.

He's in Georgia, isn't he Yeah he does. He works for this company called they make this incredible pottery and and he is absurdly talented.

Should totally talk.

Yeah he's awesome.

So but even that, like, yeah, I had a gift for sculpting. I'm a high definition sculptor. I love doing the anatomically correct detailed sculpts. You know of of monsters, So how do you make a monster anatomically correct? You have to know muscle structures and stuff. But anyway, so even that's the three D land. I'm using my my arts for for you know, music and three D stuff. And and then fucking hello, I meet Matty Mullens introduces me to this guy, dream Beard. He goes, he goes

Yes, every day thriving.

It's fulfilling, fucking fulfilled, awesome. And immediately I'm like, I want, I want to. You know, they hired me as a producer in A and R people Connector and and and producer. So we have these artists in or educators, celebrities, you know, demonstration, we medis medians, yeah, any sort of entertainment or education exactly,

Man.

I'm excited to have you guys in and I'm excited possibilities.

We'll just have to take a trip, man, And just like Geek, out and yeah, we got a little taste of it last night. It is truly mind below.

Nick and I showed up to a walk a Flock a concert in my kitchen.

Dude was straight up like performing in the kitchen and shit, and I was like, oh my god, he's right there. He's huge.

I want to beat the tea pain one and oh I can't.

We'll show you all the unreleased stuff too.

Yeah, yeah, we got to show Alex. But like after we've got Alex get to see lesson.

He brought a headset I do, I do really want to say too, like the you know, I was calling you guys the Avengers and and it's it's a very similar situation with us. I'm like, I'm I'm totally fucking honored to be at at work every day at Soapbox because these the people on the team, It's like, it's like,

How awesome is that?

Like my wife does that for our team?

Yeah, you know.

We we also have one of our aon Oars's Cory Richmond and he's he's like a uber famous gallerist from Miami.

Wow.

Yeah, what what is a galerous gallery stuff?

Or yeah he was he he he was a gallerist for a super duper famous artist. I'm talking. You know. They just go from you know, like mansion life and like and they would.

Like super luxury, like high high class, high profile, high high profile artists, and and and he would uh I'm probably butchering all this, but yeah, he he handled the galleries.

He would he would manage his galleries very cool and managed his life in a lot of ways. From from what I hear. He you know, watched his kids and stuff. He was galerous plus you know, caretaker of this family. Just he's a legend. Uh and uh and and then we got John uh bick Noll, the uh one of our developers and tech guys, genius level. He's handling all of our storage and our server room. And and then we have a few people from overseas on our on our.

Dev team, like uh uh like software developers.

Yeah, and it's just all these magnificent people. I'm like, I'm I feel so out of place. And then and then and then even and then coming here too, I'm like, what the fuck what am I doing with all these people? Like I'm I I told you last night, I'm half retarded.

You know you obviously belong man, Like that's wild. You guys have such an awesome team, Like y'all are the Justice League, bro, where are the Avengers? That's sick.

I was thinking the same thing, like they're like a team, but it's just like a different team, but it's the same. It's you know, it's the same thing. Yeah, and justly my favorite. I love the Avengers too. But I was

And then you meet people in person that tell you how the little thing that you do that you think is nothing or whatever impacts their lives and has changed their lives and it's real. And then you're like, now it's real.

Whoa, it's very real. You guys are doing I mean, arguably arguably the most important ship and fucking humanity. I'm serious to very good. But but in actuality, the the what attracted me so much to the Bloodsoe story is that it's the only it's the only version where it's fucking positive, bro, And that's the first like ding ding ding, you know, like the UFO stuff. Yeah, and any of

To be well, you can see something, but you know that us it's voices and scary, scary.

At scary real Yeah, and it's demonic.

Yeah, yeah, you are a negative in a you know, in a bad space.

Oh yeah, I've been in some bad places and seen some scary stuff I've seen like shadows, movement on the and like all the ship's real voices.

To say that one thing is just that is like what the fuck? Man? How closed minded and are thinking?

You know, it's silly.

So yeah, you guys are like, that's what you guys are talking about. Is is reality? That's that's that's the reality of things.

Is is.

Is the positive version. And once you realize that, you see that, oh well that's that's the immediate red flag. How do I know if something is bullshit, if it's if it's being presented me as demonic and this terrible thing that I should avoid. I guarantee that's the thing that I should spend the most time paying attention to.

Yeah, it's like my pastor telling me don't do kung fu, Right, that's one of the best things you can do the same, it's the same parallel.

It engages your body, keeps you healthy, it helps you meditate, clears your mind. It's like it's all these amazing, profoundly positive things, but the fear is causing him in that case be like no, no, no, no, no no, you can't do that or else. You know, this book says like you'll go to hell forever.

It's the same with the like the government narrative like no, no, no, no, the phenomenons like you're supposed to be scared of.

It, right yeah, And and by the way, like the what you're trying, what you're supposed to be teaching us is what we're connecting with, you know, like why not why not tell you know your your peers, the that there's easy ways to make these connections uh, and you you know whatever, and.

They'll benefit you and they're positive though, enrich your life.

Another red flag. It's like, if you're not doing the obvious thing to to help lift up the people around you, it's a red flag for sure.

It's true. It's true. Man, it seems so obvious from the inside, and then from the outside it's these people it's fear and confusion and and so to a certain degree, you you almost like, at least I am like, I try to have some grace and understand like they're only operating out of fear. And then I just wish I'm like, I know that they'll have their opportunity to see that it's not a scary thing, it's a positive thing, and it can enrich your life. And you know, you have grace.

Who doesn't want to be more spiritually connected to whatever fucking higher power you think, whatever, whatever your per of things is, something greater than yourself. Who doesn't want to be more spiritually connected to something positive and who doesn't want to realize that they're capable of out of body experiences and connecting to other realms, Like you can just do it. You can learn how to I mean, I

You know, Yeah, absolutely, I think so too.

But yeah, I mean you you guys are are making people aware of this information. That's a huge fucking deal. And I think obviously you're seeing that you've created a wave that now you can just rock and watch the magic happen. You know, there's overwhelming amount of people finding deep interest in this, and you've got people like Dacks come in.

And he was awesome, bonkers.

Yeah he is awesome.

Yeah, it's a good guy. It is definitely bonkers, and it does feel like a crazy wave, especially for me, because for me, I was just like, oh, my friend needs help telling his family story. Yeah, I'm in. And then it was just like sure, what's next. It's just like, yep, whatever's next. I'm taking it one step at a time and the whole ride is crazy and bizarre.

But and then you're watching orbs manifest into bars that turn into wings.

Videos with uh huh yeaheah it is it is nuts, but you know, yeah, for me, it was just I just want to help my friend tell his story. And then two three years later there's people telling me that, like something I said on the show is like has impacted their lives, and I'm like, oh my god, this is really important because it's making this thing that most people have experienced some iteration of in their life but don't know how to describe it or just pass it off as something.

You know, it's a fucking satellite. But I felt so great afterwards.

I don't know why or or or nobody will listen to them when they when they try to talk about it.

Yes, like this is so special to me, and like I can't talk to him about a big realization I had one of the synchronicities or or you know, psychic moments. I just wanted to mention, uh, like overwhelmingly an overwhelming realization, just after spending a day with you guys and talking about in more in greater details, some of your experiences as a as a child, as a as a kid, and just how how intense Uh just getting some deeper

And that's that was the other thing last night where it was like we read each other's minds, where I was trying to explain to him, like how we've always been ahead of the paradigm and like we'll be saying some shit and then like the whole UFO situation will change, they'll come out with a new thing. And I was like telling him this and then he said that I was like, dude, you just read my mind because like it sounds like it's all kind of coming from you guys.

Well, I mean this started in two thousand and seven. Yeah, you know, it's been going on for a long time.

And to see I don't know if I can say it, but some of the videos you were showing me yesterday like it's Chris in the Zoom meeting with Ross, Jake Barber, fucking.

Who else was I don't even remember, to be honest, And and it's just like, oh that Zoom's not a secret. People just had to like pay to watch it. God yeah yeah yeah, well still like it.

You know, it's you that kind of just all these new bits that just uh learning more, more and more. It's it's just we're more and more over it.

It's it's so obvious we are the middle of it.

Yes, yes, yeah, that's wild. Yeah, and that's so again. I'm I'm totally I'm a fanboy, and I'm I'm honored.

Nah, dude, you're not a fan boy, You're like you're like part of the crew.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, we feel the same way about you, man. Like it's it's a beautiful synergy. I think. I think we're all mutual admirers of each other's work, and you know, us coming together, Beautiful things will unfold from this. They already are and they certainly will continue to do so. Real and you know, thank you for coming. I think that's a beautiful place to wrap, dude. This is an amazing episode.

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing like your experiences, and I just want to say, like just just seeing who you are as a person now, Like I'm very proud of you having come from those dark experiences and dark places. A lot of people don't bounce back from that, man, yp I've seen it happen. And yeah, I mean lucky. But also you put the work in. You cared, You cared enough to say you know that one. At one point you were like, fuck it, I'm going dark. Yeah.

But there's a key theme here that could be gleaned from his story and from Paul's and from many others that even when you choose to go dark, God still says, all right, that's enough. Yeah, run your ass off the road, fly out a body, and and then like just pulls you back. It's like that's enough to change course. It's an intervention.

Yeah, yeah, totally, it's amazing.

Yeah, I needed I needed my ass whupped a little bit.

Humbled, got it, but you were humbled. Yeah, and that's and that's a beautiful thing, you know, Like that there is a force up there that even when we're like choosing to renounce the light and go with the darkness, it still cares about you. And it's like kind of watching you and being like, all right, now it's time to intervene. We got Yeah, he's he's a little too in deep. Let's pull him out. Yeah, you know, it's beautiful, dude, it's amazing.

It is beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's awesome. I'm happy that you're you seem like you're in such a good place. And then a great I'm happy you have so much love around you. It's and by the way, I love to uh, it's it's so special to.

Be listening to not knowing and listening to your recordings you're you're producing work and we got we all got to do something with the band related to with you're project.

That would be.

But to be listening to to to your work and and like the theme song, this theme song, and I'm like, fuck, man, whoever's doing that, they know what they're doing. This is fucking sick. And then to meet you and know that that you took influence from from me is I love those full circle moments and and and I think everybody needs to experience more of that.

Yeah, it is. It is full circle. Here we are face to face like it's true man, like you were totally the biggest influence for my music production. So thank you for that. Yeah, and I appreciate the kind words. Thank you so much.

Yeah, we're gonna plan a trip to Atlanta.

Let's do it.

Let's do it, all right, everybody is there?

Have you like, is there anything that you feel like you need to get off your chest? Do you feel good where we're at?

I feel fucking great. I'm I'm excited to keep bothering you guys. I'm gonna be here a lot. Yes, lies out.

Maybe amazing, Yes, yeah, he wants to come for these a fest no way, yea for real?

That would be awesome.

Yeah, let's make it happen. All right, Well, you know how we in the show right bye guys?

Right?

Do you remember that?

No?

I have only uh oh you never make it to the It's okay.

Yeah, I skipped through, and I also I listened to most of them. Yeah.

Yeah, at the very very end when it's like time to wrap, we just it's just cheap little.

You know, how we say bye I'm like, yeah, people say bye.

We literally just say bye guys.

Yeah, let's say we just say bye guys at the same time. Okay, yeah, all right, bye guys, guys.

What bies.

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