Weird thing happened.
Weird, Weird, Weird.
Welcome to episode one ninety one of bleds have said. So, we have a very very honorable special guest with us here in the studio today. Real quick, I just wanted to talk about an event coming up in May in Delavan, Wisconsin, from May second to May fourth. My father, my wife, and I will be at the Contact Modalities Expo. My dad will be the keynote speaker. It's gonna be an
awesome event. There's gonna be like three conference rooms running simultaneously throughout the whole weekend with like all kinds of amazing.
Uh.
There's gonna be like Shaman's breath workers, yoga, Crystal bowl therapists. It's it's gonna be insane, and we're gonna do a SkyWatch Friday night. We're gonna have a cocktail party on Saturday with a DJ. Everybody's gonna be hanging out in a big luncheon and it's really gonna just be like a party, but consciousness themed. So anyway, I hope to see you guys there. You can get your tickets at Contact Modalities xpo dot com. Now, the guest that we have in the studio today is incredible. I met her
last year at the Monroe Institute. I hope this is okay that I introduce you as the CEO of the Monroe Institute. We have Alan Evans.
Welcome, Alan, thank you glad to be here.
Yes, very very like shocked that you were willing to do this.
Pleasure.
We are incredibly blessed.
Thank you.
Absolutely, Yeah, especially after just having a really really cool experience just a couple of months ago with the Creation station.
Yes, one of our programs.
Really was profound. So it's been in our heads, it's fresh in our heads a lot, you know, So it's exciting, very excited.
That's the neat thing about it is that we want you to have the experience. So that's what we're doing. We're setting up experience for you, and that's that's the game changer.
Yeah, it really is. It was profound. It was awesome, and we we've been so busy, we still have yet to like dive deep into what happened and our personal experiences and stuff. But I mean, it truly was so profound and life changing, and Ignasio is amazing, and it was it was a blessings.
A brother for sure. He's an amazing human being. I think we finally figured out what like next week we're going to talk about it.
Yeah, oh good, Yeah, okay, we watched that episode.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. It was great.
We did it back in December.
December.
It's just been that busy, it really is, you know, but yeah, I'm excited about that. It was amazing. It was transformative, and I think you know what that's like, Yes, you know, being the CEO of Monroe. So I'd love to get into that. I know you've told me this story twice. I know, we talked about it over dinner. Jenny said, I know you're going to talk about it,
but you know you told the story. But I would love to hear again and as much as little detail as you like, Like what was your journey becoming the CEO of Monroe.
So in my late twenties, I got on this mission that I wanted to be more psychic. And after I got to graduate school in Lubbock, Texas, I started having these experiences, these introductions to this psychic world, and it made me curious. First of all, so I started reading a lot of books pre internet, so it was books, library books. And then there was a bookstore called the Odyssey Bookstore.
I love that name.
Had weird books in it, really strange books that I have never ever been exposed to before, you know. So once I got to Lewick, Texas, it really my world has changed. And one of the first books I read was by Edgar Casey, right, the Sleeping.
Prophet Awesome, we talk about.
Him, And what got my attention was there was this man who could predict things and it was verifiable. So that was like, okay. So I just got on this quest and then I had some experiences with psychics, and I thought, I want to learn how to do this myself. You know, I don't I don't want the as I say the middle man. I don't I want to. I want to know myself because you know, also that person that psychic is an interpreter sometimes, so if I have
my own experience, I'm interpreting it. So I was like, okay, how do I do this? And so I started reading books, still continued to read books, and I realized about the third book, ind of a psychic trying to teach me how to be a psychic, that they came into this world gifted what I considered gifted already they didn't have to learn. I mean, I was in my late twenties. I wasn't psychic, you know, and so I knew I
had to learn a different way. So that I was like, okay, I got to put a program together, and I also want to do you know, Once I do that, I can teach it to everybody, you know. So then I again read books and I put together dream analysis meditating. And I didn't really know what meditating was, you know. I would read a book and try to do what
they said. But it started working. Then as I was reading these books, there were authors who would mention the Monroe Institute and I'm like, oh, where is this place? And this is a mystery. But it was pre internet again, so I didn't know much about it, where it was, how I was it going to find it? And then I had a child. That means I got you know, yeah, And it took me until two thousand and eight, oh to get back to it.
I was wondering, yeah that now I.
Do want to say something here though I still was dabbling, you know, even though I was focused on family and raising my daughter. It wasn't that I gave it all up. I just wasn't seeking it on the same level. So I was still doing dream analysis and still meditating when I could find time, but I just it was kind of directionless and.
Dream analysis I'm sorry, dream analysis. You mean you're you're waking up and immediately like kind of interpreting your dreams writing down. Yeah, well, okay, okay.
And for me, I feel like that's a for anyone searching. I really think that's a key way or one of the key ways to do it. Because you learn a nonverbal language, you also learn and the way I look at it is, Okay, if I get I have a symbol of a rose in a dream, then because I worked with this and and made interpretations about different symbols,
then I've got a communication system. So either my higher self or total self or guides can send me messages because they know what I think it will be, you know. So it's a it took many years, you know for me to do that, but I always can figure things out now because I've created that language.
Wow, that's a fascinating way to describe it. Yeah, Like your gods like know what you're looking for kind of thing, and so they can send you a little wake hants and stuff.
So just as an example, a simplistic example, and you've maybe you've had this stream before where your teeth are falling out.
I haven't, but I have.
It all right, So I as I worked with it, I decided or figured out that that meant, and I used the dream dictionaries, you know, to get some of my information, but I would exclude the superstitions. So if it's like, if your teeth are falling out, financial doom, I would just go no, yeah, that's not what's happening here.
Edgar Casey has a wonderful dream dictionary references a lot.
Yeah, you want to be careful your source, definitely, but I have now forgot where I was.
Your teeth are falling out.
Yeah, okay, so your teeth are falling out. So I decided or determine that when I had that dream, that it meant I was giving away my personal power. So then I could go back to the day before, or you know, a few days before, to try to figure out when I did it, and then then you learn interesting. Wow, Okay, So meditation is the same way. You're in a meditation, you get information and then you can apply, you know, look at what's going on in your life.
Yeah, I'm big on that because I have like a psychology degree undergrad and learning about like oh really yeah wow, I was curious about that too. That's amazing. We really have a similar path.
Yes, I made, I just didn't get a degree.
Okay, Yeah, that's that's that's amazing, like the similarities between our our background and I resonate with a lot of what you're saying. Yeah, personally and always being curious about dreams. I've never had a good source for dream dictionary. It's kind of just Google, so.
I would actually I found that to be a good one now okay, but just because of all the information that's out there, it seems to pull the best definitions. But it didn't used to. But now that's what I do. I just google it.
Yeah. Interesting, does Jung ring a bell? Carl Jung? Yeah, like the collective unconscious, that's kind of hitting all the same concept right, Like the subconscious knows these archetypal symbols, So I guess that makes sense, like your guides or your higher self or whoever is like, you know, here's this symbol that you can interpret that has some sort of meaning that you know. So that's fascinating stuff.
So anyway, I was doing all these things, read about the institute, and then I got distracted. And then in two thousand and nine, no, two thousand and eight, November. I remember November two thousand and eight, my daughter and I went to the bookstore and I just didn't have anything I was thinking about buying. So I just walked up and down an aisle and I saw this book. And the book was the Journey of Robert Monroe. And I was like, this is it? You know, this isn't
so coo? Yes, And I'd been reading about it, so I had to, you know, I bought it, of course, and I bought it. I read it really quickly, and before I had finished reading it, I had bought the entire Gateway series. At Gateway Wave series at the time there were six now they're eight disks, no well series. So each each set, each series has six I think five or six exercises, oh wow, meditations. So I just blew through that. And the interesting thing is I've talked
to people over the years. Some people you'll do it one of two ways. You'll either just go through it like I did, like I'll do this. Then I want to do this, you know, keep doing it, keep doing it, and I might make a note I'll go back to that one, or you want to master it, so you'll keep listening to the same exercise over and over and over until you feel like you're ready for the next one. So I was the first way. I just.
I love that because I've heard from people at the institute. I've heard both ways recommended, you know, or people saying like Ignacia, for example, he talks like the second path, like you know, yeah, and then it's interesting to hear from you. I'm more like you. I just want to blow through it.
So I blew through it. And before I was through, I was like, I have to go. I don't care how I go. I don't have the money, but you know, I don't care. And I had to figure out what to do with my young daughter, which I did, and then I was there by March. So read the book in November two thousand and eight. There in March, and the minute I walked into the place, and I think we've had this conversation before. I was overcome by or overwhelmed by this feeling of you are home.
Yeah, oh wow, that's beautiful.
And I mean, I wasn't expecting it. You know, I'm just showing up, nervous about what am I getting myself into. And that was like it was washed over me. You are home.
Yeah, you went by yourself. Yeah, oh yeah, that's it is brave. You said it earlier. It is brave.
Don't well, I didn't know anybody to ask to go with me.
It's still like, that's that can be kind of scary. It is in this place. You don't know exactly what you're reading about it.
Yeah, I actually just this is funny. So I coached myself on the way there and I was like, okay, you probably you know, you just don't have to talk to people. They'll all be weird, and so you can just you know, you just hang out by yourself. It'll be okay. You can do that for a week. That's, you know, what I told myself. Of course I didn't, you know, people are normal and regular and fun, and I didn't like to do that, right, I didn't have to do that. It was a great group of us that showed up.
But so then back back then, you said two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine.
Two thousand and eight, read the book two thousand and nine guys.
Yeah, it was just a Gateway or they had.
A few more programs. Is that what you're asking?
Yeah, yeah, what kind of programs?
So it's our core programs that we still have, like Guidelines, Lifeline, Heartline, So they already had those programs going cool, but we've added a lot since.
Oh yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I'll.
Be doing Guidelines in July. Yeah, I'm very excited, excited, very excited. I have no idea what to expect, but I didn't for Gateway, and my expectations were far exceeded.
Yeah.
And I'm telling you every thought that you're describing that you had I had. I'm nervous. I'm going to be I'm not going to make friends, even though it's all content creators. I'm like, I'm not going to make friends. I'm gonna be the weird guy. And then I get there and I'm actually like the normal guy. Right, We're all normal, right, and we're all cool and we're all friends, and well, you know, the.
Beauty of it is, it's it's an every time. Every program is different, but it's an interesting group that shows up, and it can be a seventy year old there with a twenty something year old you know, and just from all backgrounds, and it's wonderful because yeah, you just you meet people that you maybe haven't the type of person maybe you haven't met before, but it's so supportive that it just works.
Yeah, it just works. I think of Monroe just having been there once and then staying in contact.
As you know, you know, and yeah, we can't get rid of it.
I don't think that'll be an easy task. But yeah, just having been there myself, the feeling that I get is Monroe really is just like a great beacon that attracts peop people who are like you described, like I've been through like these guys also, you know, have felt at some point that like sometimes you're just in deep need of an experience of something other. Yeah, you know what I mean. And I do feel like Monroe is that great place where people can go and they can
have that real genuine experience with the other. But it's not weird, it's not scary. It's actually pretty normal and maybe even a little scientific, you know.
Yeah, and people have different motivations too, So you might really be into remote viewing and that's your motivation. Maybe you want to have an out of body that's your motivation. I was wanting to be more psychic.
I wanted to learn more about myself.
That's a really good motivation. That's a better motivation.
I mean, it's the same thing.
That's really that's what happens.
And then it branches off into so many different sub sects and like these these really like the heart line and the lifeline and that stuff is so fascinating to me. I'd love to do one of those one day. That'd be really awesome. But I had a I had a blast doing Creation Station and even doing it from home, like over zoom, I'm like, is this really gonna be Before we did it, I'm like, Okay, this will be cool, but is it really gonna be that big a deal?
Day one we did it and I was like, oh man, I don't I don't know what I expected, but it's kind of blown me away. It was. It was so awesome. So I just love what you guys do. It's it's really cool. It's really unique. And we said on the episode with what was his name, Yeah, Archie, such a such an awesome guy. That was that was a great episode. And we said it on the episode with him, it's like, this is the only thing of its kind, really, you know, the only thing there is like this, and I love that.
It's it's like backed by data, and it's also kind of data oriented. But it's not all about the data, right, It's more it's it's the experience that is the number one.
And it's also small and intimate. You know, we our venues keep us locked in to certain numbers, and so one venue is twenty four or can go up to twenty six participants, and the other is twenty So if you're not going to go to a program and be with you know, five hundred people.
Right, I never really thought about it like that. Yeah, that is a very good point.
The trainers are there with you, you know, all the time, or most of that when they're sleeping.
Yeah, that's true.
Do they always do the experience with the class too?
No, someone has to be running the control room, yes, true. Okay, but but what we'll do is we'll swap off and you know, so.
I mean that's exactly what I would do, you know, take shifts. That's amazing.
Yeah, man, But.
A lot of times we're in the control room together, but you know, well we'll say, hey, I really want to do this one and yep.
Sometimes I noticed like it would be one voice going under and then it would be another voice right coming out right.
Like going into the exercises and coming out of the exercises.
Yeah, because it's not like when we did virtual when when you're there residential, there's another built at least at the top of the mountain. I haven't experienced the bottom of the mountain. There's another building where they speak into a microphone making sure everybody's ready to go into the meditation. And it's like all these check units are linked and there's a switch that you flip and once all the lights are green, then red red.
Right, Yeah, but we call it, well, it's not they're blue. We call it ready lights.
Yeah. I did go in that room one time. I got to see the amazing set up there and it's awesome. But anyway, so it's like they're talking to you live from another location. Simultaneously, everybody's hearing the trainer's voice like, okay, this is you know the parameters of this exercise, you know the purpose? Yeah.
Yeah, and the other location we're all of the same building.
Okay, yeah, cool, yeah.
Other location it's not in Virginia, there's no.
Well it is we have two campuses or two venues in the a mile apart.
Oh, that's what you're talking about top of the mountain and bottom of the mountain.
Yes, okay, there's two like buildings like gotcha, you know, facilities, but it's all in the same area.
But I wonder what the you know, a place so special like this that is truly one of a kind. I wonder what, like the the prolific, like the number of people that come is it? Has it grown exponentially? It seems like the past couple of years, I've heard more people talking about Monroe than ever.
And that's by design.
Okay. I had wondered, like, is it just because we are starting to talk about it more here?
No, since I started in the position i'm in now, we have been initiating a high growth strategy and so we've been doing a lot of different things in it, and now it's we're seeing the result.
So this is a great segue into the next thing. I wanted to talk about. Your mission. Yeah, let's let's talk about that. The thing that I took away from Monroe that had me so motivated to continue on my journey trying to you know, be a part of Monroe was when I spoke to you and of course from the trainers, and I heard your mission, So let's talk about that.
So this happened before I got there. They created the mission and it's to reach one percent of the world's population. That's what we were saying. So when I got there, when we had our first in person board member board meeting, we decided we need to say a little bit more. We need to figure this out a little bit more, because we weren't tracking it. We were just saying it. And then we really hadn't defined it, define it yet, like what what is that? What do we mean?
What was the number?
Yeah?
Or well we had the number, but what were we wanting those eighty people to do?
You know, like a million, right, I mean.
Eighty million, eighty million people to do? And so we defined it as having a direct experience. So what we count now is your first time that we can figure out having a first having a direct experience. Wow, And we and we measure it every quarter, we pull our numbers, we look at it and we're still a little behind, but we're working on it. We're working on it.
Yeah, that's amazing because I know in the very beginning of the institute. Robert Monroe himself had a similar mission, and it was in five thousand.
Right, wanting to reach a lot of people.
Yeah, he wanted to reach five thousand people. He believed that if he reached five thousand that it would change the world. And they found out that they actually reached that very quickly in the world, and here we are. But I love that. That's amazing, you know, trying to engage. It's like when I learned that because my initial thought about Monroe before I had gone for myself, as you know, my dad had been, my sister had been, and I've known a lot of people throughout my life who had
told me about Monroe. Let me listen to some tapes, so I had a little bit of an introduction, but I didn't really know what you were about. You know, I knew what you were, but I didn't know what you were about. And when I found out what you were about, I realized that it was just such an amazing mission, you know.
So, yeah, that eighty people were going to reach I'd.
Probably do that every week, you know, but that's amazing.
It probably is something like eighty people every week.
Way more, yeah, way more it's been millions by now for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, like throughout the whole what are we coming up on?
Just over fifty years, Tube has over a million that's awesome.
Wow.
But a lot of this has happened in the last two years.
Yeah, the momentum has hit a different stride. It's hit a completely new stride yep. Which it's it's amazing, And I mean I think a lot of people need this in a very serious way, and I think it's saving a lot of people.
Absolutely. I can tell you it's saved me.
Yeah, in a sense.
Oh. I love hearing stories and reading people's experiences because it's it's all about self evolution. Bob and Rose said he looks at this as the Earth life system. So we're here and we're given the let's say, the hand that we're dealt is to help us with our reach our highest potential. So with that hand, then we play it. And if we have help and we learn tools that help us play it better, we're you know, we're more likely to reach that highest potential for ourselves.
Yeah.
So that's where Monroe comes in. Let's let's give you some additional insight.
That's amazing, it's really profound because there are a lot of people that that is it's the drive to experience something like that, to experience something and know that you're more than your body is is the most important thing in their lives and without it, it's like their purposeless or they're they're lost or distraught.
But sometimes you're lost and you're trying to figure things out, and that's just part of your journey too, you know.
It really is profound, and that's it's that's my favorite part about what we do with our show is reading the people who reach out and say your show has really helped me, and you know, I feel like I have a community or I feel, you know, like I can be myself with with you know you guys and feel like I'm in the room with you guys. It's and then meeting them in person is just like the
takes it to the next level. It's so profound, and it really just it fills me with a sense of Okay, I'm impacting positive change, right.
It's you know what I wish everyone could do, though is and sometimes it's hard, and I've been in situations where it's been hard, but to remind ourselves that this is the earth life system. This is a game that we're playing, and then we we just need to play it the best we can as it unfolds for us. And if we can step more into the observer role, which is what that is, then it's a little easier.
Yeah, and it's.
Yeah, yeah, it's a beautiful and we're.
Lucky to be here having this experience, you know, absolutely, no matter the handw're dealt.
Yeah, absolutely, gratitude is a hugely important thing, like, you know, just to be here. You know, when I'm going through the lowest lows in life, gratitude is the thing that pulls me out, like I'm lucky to be going through this horrible dark thing right now. If you look at the statistics, the chances of us being here versus the amount of people that could have been here astronomically different.
That reminds me of something that I experienced in Gateway or Creation Station. Is I went in with my mantra and what I learned was that unlimited gratitude leads to unlimited wealth, and that the gratitude directly is responsible for having unlimited wealth. This is interesting that popped up.
That's amazing. Two things to say about that. One Just the other day, my sister sent me a psychological study or some kind of study I can't remember, and it's like proven that when you actively practice gratitude that the parts of your brain that process anxiety are dampened, like neurologically, just actively practicing meditation.
Right, Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, in terms of the practicing gratitude thing. Just this week, just two days ago, I think my wife, Casey, was having a tough day at work, just really you know, one of those days where you're just getting beat up from every angle and you're like, I can't win today and whatever. And she was really really down. And we eat lunch together every day because we work for the same company, so we go and
have lunch together. And I told her when I was heading back, I told her, just for the next ten minutes, list every single thing in your life that you're grateful for the biggest things down to the tiniest little things that you take for granted, and just do not stop until you can't even think of things too, because I do that. Just you know, maybe a year and a half ago before moving here was just a tough time in life. It just happens.
You're going to have them it's like, yeah, it's like seasons and they're natural.
Yeah, and they come out of nowhere. You're like, where in the world did this come?
You're growing from it?
Yeah, absolutely that.
The problem is some people aren't aware of.
That, right. Some people think it's going to be this way for it, they suffer.
And how fortunate I feel to know that it's just a temporary season. Yes, it's seasonal. And like you said, I I almost when you're in it, it's you know, it feels horrible, but there's that little thought in the back of my head like I'm going to be better because of this. I'm going to get out of this. And but for a while, it was like just crushing
gratitude was the one thing. It's the one thing, literally going on a walk and saying out loud everything I see around me, I'm grateful for everything I have in my life. I just don't I wouldn't have made it through.
I wouldn't have another one I like to use, especially if I'm dealing with someone that's either adversarial or upset with me, is in my head just repeat I love you, I love you, I love you.
I don't know how, but I never thought of it. I knew you were going to just like a and you.
Might not see it switching in that moment, but it'll it starts turning, you know, and just so instead of attacking back, you just you just send out love.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Can I tell you about an experience that I had a Gateway. I kind of was curious because it seems like, based on our conversation earlier, you had a similar experience when we were talking at lunch. But when I was a Gateway last summer, I was at a really hard place in life. I had just bought this house the day before. So I got to the Creator Gateway June fifteenth, the day before we had just stopped doing construction work on this house after a three month, very stressful period.
My head was messed up when I got but I had to go.
You know.
It was like the best opportunity of my life. And I get there and I learned so many tools from Gateway, you know, the like the energy conversion box, the reball, yeah, and and and all of those different tools and even the focus levels. And there was a couple of instances there. Some of them were I don't know if I would say out of body. I definitely did go out of body one or two or maybe even three or four times.
But then there were some times where it's like I wasn't necessarily out of body, maybe by locating maybe I don't know, I don't know the term. But something was happening, you know, And something that I experienced was because I was already at such a hard place in life. I had this very strange journey that I went on where it was like I was floating down a river, but that river was time, and I understood it as across
all lifetimes. Okay, right, So it like I was just kind of maybe on a raft whatever, but I'm just like floating down this river. It's winding, it's going down. Sometimes it's like rapids and it's really rough. And it came through to me like the only thing that you have control over throughout the entire existence of all of it is your own inner light, is your own inner
you know being. And it came through very clearly to me, like, you know, practice the reball, practice being happy, being as positive as you can, because every now and then life is like, you know, if it's the metaphor of the river, you're going down the rapids and it's turbulent and you can't control that. But what you can control is how brightly,
how you respond, how brightly you shine. And it just kind of came through to me, like sometimes it's tough, it's all right, it's a season, like we're talking about, but with these tools, you can navigate these storms or these you know, rocky roads or whatever. And that was really profound. And then there was a couple other things
I experienced there that that were very perspective altering. And I came home and I was just like Alex will tell you, I went very stressed and then I got home and you the first thing you said was you were like, wow, you look different. Remember that's common. Yeah, it was. It was life changing for me, and it and it I say it saved me. That's a little dramatic, but like I went to Gateway not having the tools
to manage being. Uh. I guess you could say like a person having psychic or supernatural experiences, living in a world that is very mundane, and the majority of people that you encounter, I'm sure you've experienced this, you know, being in your position, the majority of people you encounter, they they want to suppress it it scares them.
Well, no, not the majority I made anymore good.
But there was a.
Time in my life at the institute that's true.
Yeah, you are meaning like minded people, and I.
Wasn't right you know now I was. I've lived there too, yeah.
Yeah.
And then when I went to Monroe, I was normal. Yeah, I was totally normal, right, Nobody was phased by any of it, and it was it was amazing, and I was like, there are other people in the world like me, you know, and uh, not only that, but like there's an actual school that is real, genuine where you come to develop these things, you know, so.
And there's no dogma, right, you know, attached to it. So that's nice too. We're not trying to change any beliefs at all.
Oh yeah, I think that's one of the best things about it. It's like you don't have there's nothing required.
It's all about you having a personal experience and extrapolating the things and interpreting absolutely, yes, yes, absolutely, and then leaving with those tools that will help you spiritually but also help you, like you're saying, like navigate just kind of the the everyday mundane life things that just like meditation like like you know you can it can both help you in a spiritual way or if you're having a bad day, you know it can help you in that way as well.
Practical applications too.
Yes, yeah, absolutely, So what would be an example of practical.
Application concentration which you said you use it guilty? When he's been preparing for our training program, you've been listening to it.
You said, Oh, so we're gonna put the cat out of the bag right now. Oh, I'm sorry, no, that I was kind of hoping this. I honestly was planning this. Okay, So yep, you heard it from Alan.
And we accepted you.
Yeah, you're hard to get. Yeah, the theme here.
We I haven't signed off yet, that's true.
That's true.
I'm on thin ice by a couple more dinners.
Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. So, yes, you have heard it firsthand from Alan that I am going through a training program too, and.
You'll be training some like Focused ten and Focused twelve, which are basic founding and other things too.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's that's how it started.
Yeah, this has been in the works secretly since last June. First time ever.
Okay, aout, he's been dropping He's.
But yeah, this is the first time. It's it's completely out there. Yeah, that's congratulations.
And you'll be finished when.
I don't know, because I have to do the Phase three.
Which is you know, I've been tour things yeah, okay, and.
I have initiated contact there and I've been busy this week because you came, you know, but I'm very It'll be this year for sure. Ok probably summer.
Yeah, don't let it, don't wait.
No, absolutely not. Yeah. Phase two is April. Phase three get that out of the way, which I have to talk to you guys about that.
Okay, you guys will.
Be my guinea pigs.
All right, sounds good.
Yeah, So anyway, moving on. Yeah, so now I can speak a little more clearly. When I was there in June, that kind of unfolded and meeting you too was very impactful and you might remember this, but I had done an interview with you, do you remember, yeah, which is going to come out soon. I was kind of timing it, which I mean, this is it's like three or four minutes. It's really cool interview, but this is you know, this takes the cake and this this is amazing that you
came here to do this with us. But when we were doing that, I had just come out of focus twenty one. As you know, throughout the week you start you start to shift, you know what I mean, because you're having these profound experiences. And there was a moment when I was trying to work the camera and I looked at you, and I don't know what possessed me to say this. I just looked into your eyes and I could just feel this, uh, this powerful energy with you, you know,
like you're just an amazing person. You radiate thank you and energy. And I looked at you in the eyes and I said, Alan, you have a presence about you. I just want you to know that. Do you remember that I don't? And You're just like thank you? And that was it. But sure, to God, I was just like, let me tell you. I said, Alan, you do have a presence about you. You You're a very powerful person. Anyway, just talk to me about the institute and I'm like
recording her. It's a fun week. And that just kind of unfolded. And we've kind of been working this out in secret, and I've been I've not been looking back. I've just been wanting to completely dedicate myself to helping the institute.
Do you mind telling adding the part about the institute to your the story You just telled us about the river, which part you said as you were going down.
Yeah, yeah, that's okay. I'm glad you said that. That was actually two different experiences, So I'll talk about the other one, Okay, Yeah, I would love to. I paraphrased it at lunch, but sure. Yeah. So when I was there, it was it was after Archie came to me in private, and it just happened that way. We were having lunch one day. It wasn't like he was like coming to
me and whispering me on the side. We were just talking and we were at lunch and we were really having a great conversation and he just casually was like, you know, you really should consider looking into outreach. It starts next month. And I was like, what's outreach, you know, which is how Alan started.
Yeah, amazing. Yeah, I was gonna ask.
That's why in the beginning of the episode, I was like, we really have a similar path.
I was gonna ask, Yeah, okay, we.
Had the same I promise, I'm happy with the outreach thing, and and you know, kind of the synergy of the platform here, and you know, I'm not like, I don't know, I'm just taking it one day at a time. I don't know what this path unfolds. But anyway, yeah, well you know, I'm happy. I'm happy with how it's unfolding. So anyway, I'm talking with Archie and he's just like, you should look at this outreach thing, and I'm like, tell me about it. And we had this whole conversation
about it, and he basically told me. He was like, look, normally you have to have X number of programs, and that's why I'm doing the guidelines. You know, it's like kind of rushing. That's why I have to wait for phase three because I want to do that first. I think I had worked it out to where I had to do that, and then I'll do the phase three, right.
OK.
So anyway, Arkie's explaining it to me, He's like, normally you gotta have a program beyond Gateway and then you go through it's like school. It's like a year of school. It was like, huh, Monroe University. That sounds enticing, you know, just.
Like that's cool, or perhaps Monroe Institute of course.
Yeah, you know, I my school was in you. And then for whatever reason, I thought about Monsters University, and I just like Monroe University in my head. I was like, you know, it's like people get PhDs. I'm going to the premiere psychic constitute of the world and getting certified to be a trainer. I'm like, Wow, that's amazing. This is my real thoughts, you know. I'm like, this is this is actually amazing to think about. I'm like, wow,
I actually am really interested in that. But I'm scared because I have such a busy life and we have this thing going on, and and I was like, would I really be cut out for this?
I had that same question right, A lot.
Of those fears you were describing, I had to, you know, And I went and I did a meditation after we had that conversation, and I saw again kind of how I saw the like the river of my life. This time it wasn't like time, but it was like my journey and it was a road. It was like a dirt road, and it was just like infinitely unwinding, and it was like, this is your path. You know, you were walking this path. This is your destiny basically, like
where you're going to go next? And I saw Monroe just kind of appeared on the path and it wasn't like blocking the road. It was beside the road. It was going with the road, and it just kind of you know how it goes, like sometimes understandings flash in your mind, right, and it just kind of flashed. It was like just follow Monroe and I went up to Archie after that session. I was like, I'll do it,
you know. So we worked it out to where I could get that second program, you know, before the graduations. And there's a few other things about Monroe and the ones I haven't even told you yet, you know, if you want me to go into that, but sure. Yeah. Well, since I left Gateway last year, I've gone out of body spontaneously like five or six times.
Very nice. It definitely opened a gateway, you know, and a lot of times it happens after you get home.
Right, yeah, And that has been happening for me even like not even just going out of body. But I will tell you, like a lot of pressure in the third eye area. Is that common?
Really? Yes, all the time, fascinating all the time.
Not not all the time, but all the time.
It can depend on how you perceive and so some of us can do so through physical senses and and so you're feeling that energetic expansion in a physical way. Okay, see yeah, so not everybody might experience that, just like not everyone's not everyone will be Claire audience, which means hearing or clarent right, right, So it just depends on how you tap in.
So for some people it's more in the mind.
Right, it can just be you just know and that that's psychic, you know, that is being intuitive. But a lot of people will dismiss that because it's not how they want it to be.
That's been me. Yeah, Like I've always kind of felt like, I guess the term is clear sentient, like sometimes these knowings just come to me. But I have always active suppressed that. And then I went to Monroe and it was like that gateway was open where I came home and it was like, Okay, I can't suppress this anymore, you know what I'm saying. And anyway, so there's been five or six different occasions over the last just under
a year. Now that I'm laying there, I'm like kind of trying to go to sleep, but like I explained to you, I'm hyperactive. So a lot of times, I'm just slaying in bed for an hour, you know, So I'm not asleep. I know what it's like to fall asleep. I don't just fall asleep, you know what I mean. Yeah, I'm always the last one up.
Yeah, Oh oh my god. We'd have a bunch of people over staying the night. He'd be up to like six am.
As a kid, you know, even as a toddler, I would resist going to sleep, even.
Just like a year ago, when we were recording in the other apartment, if we'd have guests come, or if like his siblings would be there staying, He's up until the last person drops. I always I throw in the towel hours before then I'm going to bed.
So I say all that to say that I confidently know that I am not asleep when this is happening with me, you know what I mean. It's a real theme in my life, and there have been multiple occasions where I'm laying there and all of a sudden, I'll
feel this pressure in my like pineal glands. It's not painful, but it's like kind of like a it's kind of like not a pulsing, but it's like a just like a energy movement thing, you know, and sometimes it's like like the first time it happened, it was like my mind like if you close your eyes, you can still kind of see. You're not seeing with your eyes, but you can maybe see images in your head or whatever.
I was closing my eyes and laying there, and all of a sudden, it's like I was away from my body and my vision in my mind kind of did this wiggle like a serpent and went through this almost like a portal, and it's like, next thing I knew, I was downstairs and I was looking at myself, but it's it's gonna be a little weird, but it'll it'll circle back.
I'm looking.
Yeah, you're the CEO of so I'm looking at myself, and as weird as it sounds, I look like what I thought at the time. I looked like kind of like the Joker, Like I had white face paint, these black marks on my face and black long hair. And my first thought was, oh, it's a clown, kind of like the Joker. And that was in I want to say, probably like June. Oh no, no, no, September, because June I
was at Gateway. Then I went to Europe for a month and then I got home, so it was probably more like August or September that that happened to me. And I was like whoa. And I saw a couple of other things, like I saw this stone statue that looked like some Hindu deity and it had its tongue out like making a really like you know, like a
shocking face. And I looked it up later and it was something like Collie, like, you know, the Hindus believe that sometimes when you're going through like a like a an ego death, or you're going through some sort of tative, transformative experience, that sometimes the more shocking the image that you see, the more it serves to like reduce your ego.
I don't that's what I read, you know, I don't have a particular thing with that image I saw, but it was a stone Hindu statue and it was like shocking, and I was like whoa. And then it changed and it was like this weird machine, like just all these levers and knobs and like pistons and they're just like moving and all this steam coming out of it. And this information came to me that it was like you know, you are you are evolving, you know what I mean.
This machine looked like nonsense. It looked like some weird alien technology, but you had the feeling. But I had the feeling that I was the machine like evolving.
So that's that clear sentience word that you guys are talking. It's like a no, yeah, okay.
I just have these like it's like information come through and he just has a voice. It's just like a feeling.
And then it resonates, you know.
Yeah.
Wow.
To wrap that story up, Alex Nick and I go to a Halloween party in October at our mutual friend's house. There's a guy there addressed like the Crow. Do you know the Crow? It's you know, Bruce Lee has a son that he's now passed. His name was Brandon Lee. He played in the movie called The Crow, White Face.
Paint, The.
Marks, yep. And I end up having like a thirty minute to an hour long conversation with this guy. And he had this very traumatic spiritual psychosis event in his life where he was hospitalized, and I found myself in an opportunity to be able to give him words of like affirmation, and he kept saying things to me like yeah, I went crazy this that and the other, and I was in an opportunity to like, no, man, you're not crazy, you just you know, and like encourage him, lift him up.
And I was like, wait a minute, I didn't see myself as the joker.
It was that guy, right.
Whoa, That's what I saw.
Whoa.
So anyway, so back to the one about Monroe that started happening pretty regularly where I'm like just spontaneously going out of body, and one that I had was I saw Monroe and I saw myself, and I saw myself portrayed as having this kind of like energy field around me, and all of these experiences throughout my life, you know, the orbs or maybe weird dreams or any sort of
kind of phenomenon that can't really be explained. It was like there's this field around me that it was just like a wild field of unfocused like psychic energy, and things were happening around me subtly that I wasn't even aware of, you know what I'm saying. And then I saw the institute and it looked like a castle, like with turrets and all these walls, and people are walking up and down the walls. It just looked like a
medieval castle. For some reason, maybe a symbolic the information came through to me that like the Monroe Institute is a place where people go to make those unconscious abilities conscious. That there are many gifted potentials in the world, and really everybody is gifted. I just think some people aren't
desperate need to understand it, you know. And it just came through to me very clearly, like Monroe is the place where you go to develop this, make it conscious, you know, learn like like it was explained to me, like you know, like a student and a master, like sometimes you may be born you know. You see three year olds play the piano, and some people are just born with abilities that need to be refined by a master, you know what I mean. So very nice. Yeah, and it goes on and on more of a and.
Do you journal? Yes. The reason you want a journal is because you can go back and a lot of times it's like you're getting little bread crumbs which you've described several and then you can look back at it and see for validation to remind yourself.
You know, yeah, kind of your progress.
Yeah. I mean I've been reading my journals again because I'm writing a book. Really, yes, and it's been very interesting. You know what I wrote about and I didn't remember, you know. One of them was something you said earlier about there were people like me. So I kept hearing this message over and over there are more people like you, there are more people like you, And I think I think it resonates with what you were saying, that we're out here, we just need to figure out how to get together.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
So what is were you going to say something? No, oh, sorry, I didn't want to cut you off. But what's the overall premise of the book.
It's more about the journey of moving from being what I would consider not psychic to psychic, and just talking about the tools and then bringing in Bob's work with it as well and Bob's message.
Interesting.
Is it a sort of autobiography?
I mean it is. I do use life my life experiences to make points, so there is some personal telling natural of the story. Yeah, but the focus I believe
is more on the tools. Yeah, and how to self evolve, you know, how to continue that process, and then sort of the lines we were already talking about, you know, just ways to think about things that shift your perspective, like gratitude, one of my favorite mantras that I've been using, and I didn't know this until I read my diary, but I've been using it for about ten years, and that is to say, what's mine is mine, what's not
is not. So when I don't get something that I really want, or you know, it's a direction I'm going and I just know that's the right direction and it falls apart, I can be sad about it, but I can pull myself really quickly out of sadness because I just remind myself what's mine is mine, what's not is not, So mine's coming. I thought it was that it wasn't, you know. Yeah, So that kind of information.
That's something I struggle with really bad. And that's been a theme this week that I've had the opportunity to talk about with Alex. After you left the other night, we just had a you know, sometimes we'll record and then you'll leave and then we'll do another show, but we'll kind of talk a little bit before we start. Yeah, and with my wife this week, something that has been a recurring theme in my life lately is like trying to let go of results because I.
Am so you've got a new affirmation which is what's mine.
Is mine mine, Okay, and what's not is not?
Yeah, yeah, I like it. Yeah, So make the intention. We need a path, we need we need something to intend for and then take the steps and it'll come in whatever way you know it's supposed to. It might not be the way you think it's supposed to come. Doesn't mean it's not coming, just it will look different. Yeah, it's divine right there you go.
It's caused me a lot of grief in my life being so obsessed with results, results, you know. So like that's something that has just been a recent theme in my life that I have. Coincidentally you're bringing this up. It's like perfect timing for me. Good, you know, because it's like something that I really am Like, Okay, I need to work on this. Yeah, you know, detachment or whatever.
And that is a hard one, you know, And that's part the manifesting idea is that you're supposed to release, you know, like once you put it out there, you're supposed to surrender. And that's that's easier said than done. You have to surrender to the attachment.
The attachment thing we are like so naturally we cling to things because we want to feel like we own them. We want to feel like we own our destinies in our lives and we are in control. We're in full control, and like you know, and then right right the second that we realize like maybe we're not, it can crumble and it can feel devastating, but it's good. I really like your mantra. I really like that what's mine is mine and what's not is not. It's similar to my favorite, which is it is what it is.
Yeah, that's a good one.
That's my that's my favorite love. That's my favorite mantra in the world that if things are just abysmal, it is.
It's kind of like some street wisdom. I like that. I want to ask you some pretty out there questions, but from a very genuine place of learning, because I think everybody's individual experience with reality is just going to be slightly different, you know. So I'm curious, like in all of your time being involved, i mean even before Monroe, with you being interested in this kind of psychic body of knowledge, and you know, we talked about this a
little bit at lunch. I did have another out of body experience at Gateway where I know that Monroe is a place of non dogma, and that's one of the best things about it. But I also understand that throughout time there have been other things maybe that have a dogma, but still have you know, maybe they have things that are true and things that are not true, or they have a dogma because maybe it's some centuries old tradition.
But anyway, my point is it occurred to me in the out of body state I found myself in like
ancient Egypt. It's very I talked about it on the three part Monroe series and it very clearly came through to me that Monroe the Institute as it is today is a genuine emergence of a tradition that has been happening for thousands of years, which is, you know, you have things like the Templar Knights, you have things like all these other traditions, the Rosicrucians, the x y z, all of these different mystery traditions have been secretly holding
the knowledge that we can go out of body. You know, you see it in movies, you see it in all kinds of popular representations of this stuff, and it's like this secret I feel like that's that's been around for so long, and it just kind of came through to me very clearly that like the Monroe Institute is like I don't say this lightly, but like a new age offshoot of that in a very real and genuine scientific without the dogma shedding the things we don't need, you know,
all of the ritual and the religious observation, and it's just taking the truth of what we are. You know, you're more than a physical body. You can explore this, you can go out of your body, you can find out for yourself. You know, they've been doing it for thousands of years, but have a lot of you know, little things that maybe I don't need that maybe I don't need to fast for forty days under the tree, or maybe I don't need to give up all my possessions,
you know. So it came through to me that like Monroe is a very very special place and that there were like just so many amazing forces at play to bring it into the world. And throughout the week I'm having all these things come to me and I'm like, man, this really is a good opportunity to commit myself to this institute in a very serious way. But anyway, so that was a long winded set up for the question. But I wanted to know in your time walking this path, like what have you explored?
What?
What have you determined? Your understanding of things are? Why can we manifest things? Why can we go out of body?
Why?
How is it possible? From Allen's perspective, that's a big question. Well, like I would tell you, you know, I'm a spiritual being. There's some sort of high. It's not a tuck question like I just you know, how did you come to know this? Why did you come to know this?
Like, well, I would say through experience boom, Yeah, and that's that's what Monroe offers, you know, a pathway to do that. Yeah, And I mean just having the experience of connecting with what I call total self or Bob called total self, I'll a lot of times say higher self. And then the connecting with guides and guidance. That's that's when I just knew something was happening here. And now I can even have a conversation with my body.
Really, what do you mean?
So well, let me start at the beginning. So about fifteen years ago, I'm listening to hay House Radio and that was how it first came out. What the podcast?
Oh cool? It was.
It was a radio show whoa that was because that was before podcast and there was a hostess name or a host named venus ANDRAK and she was a psychic, and so I just listened to her show while I'd be working on my computer. And so one day she goes, now, the next time you go meditate, ask your body what it needs from you. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah.
So I was like, okay, I'll do that. So the next time I meditated, I got to the point where I felt like I was deep enough, and so I in my head, in my you know, in my mind, I don't ask out loud. I say, body, what do you need today? And I'm expecting lettuce fruit. I was always on a diet, and my body says butterfinger.
Oh?
And I was like what? And then I was like, I prefer snickers. I don't even It's like my body's not matching my personal taste. But then I decided, and I had to talk myself into it. I did go get a butterfinger oh, because if the you know, like I asked, and if you tell me and then I'm not going to help you get what you want. But interestingly enough, I haven't been asked to supply something like that again. It's been orange juice, turmeric, you know, things like that.
Interesting.
Wow.
So it was just that one time.
And the turmeric. It was an interesting one because I didn't know the word. You know, now it's talked about more. But I had inflammation and so I was asking what I needed and I heard tumeric. I'm like turmeric, and I'm trying to sound it out and so I can bring it back with me in the minute I get out of the meditation. I'm trying to, you know, write it down. And I look it up and I was like, oh, okay.
It's a powerful you didn't even know. No, You're like, what is that body? That's amazing.
So you can do that. Yeah, But if you're gonna do if you're gonna be serious about it, I would try to honor what you're asked. Sometimes when I'm asking, the orange juice SEMs to be the most common, I'm like, oh, man, I don't have any orange juice, and I don't have time to go to food Lion.
Yeah, shout food Lion. We love a food line.
I don't.
Anyway, So you just do what you can to honor honor the request that you hear that's amazing.
So it sounds like then you are Ryan is much more of a like why I need the information. I need the why why is it happening?
I need the results?
Yes, yes, yes, I need the results. I need the data. I need an explanation why, whereas you are more like I have the experience.
I have what I have, and it is what it is.
It is what it is. I have what I have.
It's just different.
I think it's different for everyone's.
Every mind is different, you know, like just to elaborate on that when my dad, my grandparents have told me this my whole life grown up, and my dad's told me this, like it's everybody knows this about him, that that he wanted me to tell you hello, by.
The way, and Emily your dad, and Emily, hello, I will, I will.
But I've always just known this about my dad that when he was in diapers, my grandma would come in the room and you know, the washing machine has been taken apart. He was three, he would get his hands on a screwdriver. He has this mechanical mind. He would just take everything. When he was so young, he didn't know how to put it back together.
You know.
He would take his bicycle apart, he would take the washing machine apart, or the radio, and it was a problem. They had to hide things from him. By the time he was like nine or ten, everybody on the street would come pay him cash and he would put the radio in their car. By the time he was thirteen, he built his first house. By the time he was my age, he's building airplanes and motorcycles. He has this mechanical mind that's I feel the same way, but only
about spiritual things. I feel like I have to learn everything I can learn. There's no way you can possibly understand it all. That's the curse of, you know, studying these things. It's so abstract and ineffable, but I feel like, yeah, it is. It's almost bottomless or infinite really, you know. But that's kind of how my mind works, is I feel like. And that's why Monroe's so good for me, because it gives me tools that I wasn't finding in other places. You know that work, They actually work, and
they're based in ancient practices. But you don't need all the fluff. Just look, this actually works because you're more than your physical body, right, you know, so I have a lot to learn and I'm loving every bit of it.
You know, really, we all have a lot to learn.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's part of the fun of life. If we run out of things to learn, what's the point, you know, It's true, and I love that there's a little something for everybody in Monroe. Everybody works a little bit differently, but that you know, I'm I'm much more of the it is what it is kind of person too like. But I mean, I think just as many people are more like, why is this happening? I need to know the specifics and the data and the you know. And it's not that it's like that is one is
correct and the other is incorrect. It's two different paths to the same results, right style. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So, I mean, is there's a little something for everybody?
You know.
Another thing, so many people have the idea that it's about being visual, Like when you're in your meditation experience, I'm not seeing anything and guess what you might not you know, you might not be one of those people. And I'm not really one of those people. I mean, I have had a little bit of that in out of body experiences, but in meditations it's like completely blessed same and I'll just have to I'll go, Okay, where
are we? I can't see anything, you know, so everybody everyone's so different.
Yeah, yeah, it's very rare that I see things in my mind, very very So you.
Have to use your imagination. And that's the other thing people think if I use my imagination, I'm making it up.
Yeah, I'm guilty of having I used to think.
That, Okay, And so if you use your imagination, it's really a good way to start the process. It's a way. It's an initiation, and a lot of times you'll find it takes on a life of its own. You're no longer in control, in control of it.
It's like a jumpstart.
I used to do this thing where I would go to this space and I had a healing center. I still do the healing center, but this was I was reading this in my journals recently. And I had a healer named Rob. I don't know why his name was Rob. And then I had a career closet. I called it because I was always trying to figure out what I was supposed to do with my life. And I had a book like a library that I could just go pick a book to get answers and uh huh yeah.
And then I had a room that had a bean bag and a TV screen, so I would just start it every the way it started it. I would go hey, Rob, you know, and go in and have a healing session that I kind of directed, and then it would just start doing its own thing. And one time, and I wrote this in the book, I was going in to say Rob, and I said Hi, Mike, who's Mike, you know, And so that it immediately started taking on a.
Life time whoa without a while into you.
It was just like right when I had started in, and it was like, instead of saying Rob, I said Mike. And so I had a conversation with this guy named Mike.
Interesting. Well, yeah, I get where you're coming from too, because you're like, wait, why would that just like automatically come out of me when I've been, you know, thinking of this this Rob figure. It's it's almost like it just kind of took a life of its own. It just happened.
And you know Prime in the pump.
You know, yes, exactly exactly Prime in the pump.
But like Focus fifteen is one of the levels we talk about and that's there is no time, and that is a space of initiation. So if typically if there's going to be an experience, there needs to be an initiation which would be started by imagination, or you can have the opposite, which is the void in that same space, which is very still, and you you experienced fifteen very still, very quiet.
They did too increases.
Oh yeah one time.
Yeah, there was one exercise.
Yeah, so yeah, I think that was one of the only times I actually really did see something very vivid. Was was when we did that? I don't I don't remember if it was that practice or if it was did we do that on our last day?
I think so.
More than more than likely, because you would have done ten and twelve first, and then I'm.
Pretty sure that was the one. I need to look at my journal again, but I'm pretty sure that was the one.
I think it was.
See. I rarely like I wonder if I have this thing called affantasia where you don't see anything when you close your eyes or when you imagine stuff, you just it's just nothing. But every now and then I can't.
And then you do. You don't have a condition, right.
Right, right, right exactly, It's like every now and then something will will peak through and I see something. Same with my dreams. Usually don't dream every now and then.
On you do dream, you just don't remember it.
Yeah, it's probably something like that. Yeah, but every now and then I will. And then most of our things in Creation Station, it was like I'd have more feelings thoughts than any ideas. Yeah ideas.
You know, it's interesting. I forgot where I was going with that because you said something that I was gonna latch onto.
It's my not seeing things in my in my mind and then not seeing things when I dream.
So okay, I got it. So one of the things about using your other senses besides being visual, and I was really frustrated. I wanted to be visual because that's you know, that's where people are seeing the movies, you know, and they can explain it all to you. And then it dawned on me one time that I was the way I was perceiving or receiving information. I didn't have to interpret as much, because if it's just a visual movie in front of you, or like a symbol coming
at you, you have to interpret it. If you're here in a sentence, you got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I have learned that for me, it's better not to be visual, right. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's just like straight to the core of the message.
Yep, it's different for everybody. It's different for everybody. Yeah, that's a that's a good way to look at it. That's a positive outlook because sometimes it's frustrating.
Oh I know, hey, I've been there. We call it, well, we call it focus envy, you know.
Yeah, we learn all the insider legal.
I mean, my Gateway was not exceptional. I mean I knew something good was going on. I knew I needed to come back, you know, I had that very deep knowing, but there wasn't a whole bunch of you know, there was nothing spectacular that happened.
And this was your very first experience going there.
Yeah, you just so it's you know, like people think, Okay, if I go there, I'm gonna go out of body. Maybe maybe not, but that's not really what's happening there. Yeah, that's just that's an experience you could have or possibly have. But even in Gateway, there's only one meditation or exercise that that's focused on the out of body experience. That's not the purpose of that program.
Man and it's just like an intro, just like teaching you the tools. And then yeah, I mean that's a great way to So then what about like Obe, would that be.
That that is the intention? Okay, but what happens to people they come to the program and almost everyone you interview because I've taught I was a trainer for OBE Spectrum, they would say, I want to have the classic experience, and the classic experience is vibrating and knowing that you're coming out of your body, then going to the ceiling looking down seeing yourself maybe there's a silver cord. Most people don't do that. Yeah, so it becomes more about
what I call projected consciousness. So you know you're in your check unit, but you also know and some people might call that by location. But by the end of the week, people don't care if they've had a classical experience because it's about the outcome. How you got there, you learn is just not that important.
Yeah, yeah, huh yeah, And that's true in my experience, Like I mean, I'm like positive I went out of body, but it was it was nothing like you know, oh my gosh, look there I am. It wasn't like that. It was just like one minute, I'm there, and then one minute I'm in ancient Egypt. So yeah, it's like one minute I'm you know, in my body, in one minute I'm not. And it's like maybe I'm in ancient Egypt, or maybe I'm downstairs in my living room. Actually you
might find this interesting. At Gateway last year, I swear it was like the second to last night, I think, and I was laying in my bed in the check unit, and I was at such an elevated state, which I'm sure you know what that means. Maybe them listening at home, they're like, what do you mean by that? But you know what I mean. They know what I mean. You know, doing the program is just over time, after you're having experience after experience after experience, you get to the state
where you're just sort of like expanded. I don't really know how to explain it more, but I was there and I was laying in bed and I'm like close my eyes, you know, and it's like next thing.
I know.
It's like if you imagine an old radio when you like turn the knob in their static. You know, it was kind of like that a little bit like the transmission of this where I am right now got a little fuzzy for a moment, and then I swear to you it was like I was standing in line in the cafeteria in the morning getting a cup of coffee with the you know how the cafeteria is where you have the trays and you go and you get you know this, you know, maybe get the eggs, maybe get
the sausage, whatever. And I'm like standing there trying to get coffee and I was like, wait a minute, I'm laying in bed. And then it was like I'm back in bed, right, you know. It was so weird. The next morning, I got up early and I I don't remember why did I think? I was just in so much of a like a peaceful state from the week that I was like, I want to go sit and drink a cup of coffee by the crystal, you know.
And I grabbed one of those blue lawn chairs that's you know, kind of near the crystal, and I actually dragged it over to the crystal and I sat there in silence, and I was drinking my cup of coffee, and I put my hand on the crystal and the same thing is like the knob the static, and it was like I started to get really fuzzy, like, oh my god. It's like I was going somewhere else and I was like, I gotta get up, I gotta walk around. I can't do like I have programs and.
Do it right.
It was just so weird. And I don't know if you've heard stories of that or if that's common, but it was weird.
Yeah, no, I've heard. I've heard lots of stories. Sound I haven't experienced that to know where I was awake.
And I'm sure there's a million things that people experience that are different from everyone that that are really kind of hard to pinpoint, you know, but interesting. So what's like your most profound Monroe experience.
Hmm. So I would say happened at Heartline, which is a program I'm working on the heart But that's not what happened. That wasn't what I'm going to talk about. I was in my check unit and drop in just almost immediately to knowing I'm in a you know, in that place, and I hear led Zeppelin and I'm like, and then Bob's talking, and I'm like, oh man, Bob, use letting, you know, use led Zeppelin as the background music.
And so I like crack it up, crank it up, and then all of a sudden the check unit, the bottom of the check unit falls out. Well before that, I get it. It kind of the two like sides come up and create a box and I'm lying. I'm lying in the box. And then the bottom of the check unit drops out, and I go on to this like roller coaster thing that's like a like a coal mine.
Oh wow.
And I'm having this experience and I'm thinking. There was a guy named Dirk there who had been had taken this particular program eight times. Wow, And he kept telling me just wait, just wait. The next exercise is like so, I'm thinking, Dirk, I mean, I'm having fun. Dirk didn't tell me about this? And I'm thinking, oh no, what about the people that are claustrophobic because it puts you in a box. And then I'm going and I'm going, Dirk, why didn't Dirk tell me? What about the people that
are claustrophobed? You know, this is going on as I'm riding on this thing, and I'm like, I didn't know they had all these tunnels under here, like wow, no one told me. And then the exercise ended. I opened my eyes and I had been in my check unit along, but it was like real, it was so real. Wow, I really thought it had happened.
That's amazing.
Yeah. Wow, it was fun too. Yeah, for heartline, and usually you're working on your heart, so a lot of times there's a lot of healing that takes place. And for me it was a joy ride. I was on magic carpets, I was jamming led Zeppelin.
That's amazing.
Yeah. So it's different for everybody, you know. It just spends on where you are in your own journey. And each program has an agenda, but we individuals come in with our own agenda and that can take you over.
Like a conscious agenda or like maybe a subconscious.
It could be subconscious conscious, it could be an agenda that your guides have to try to get you back on track.
You know, let's talk about guides, okay. And that's something that is it's very fascinating to me and I have no experience with that.
You know. That's the why you're going to guidelines.
Yeah, actually, yeah, that is because I had to choose a program, you know, and it was like, I think it was between that and MC squared, and I was like, you know, MC squared is really cool and I do want to do it someday And I was like, that's really cool, but I really feel like I could use more direction, you know. So I ultimately chose that one, and I think the timing of it worked out. But let's let's let's let's explore like guides, why why? We don't have to say why, but like what is a guide?
So it is hard to find because we don't really know the answer, right. But for me, it's just something that it's either a wiser part of myself or maybe it's deceased loved ones that are helping me. I have a communicated with a mother from a German life that keeps checking in on me, checking. Yeah, She'll she'll want to see me, and I'm like, I don't really know you. I don't have I don't have the same emotional reaction that she has. But so I don't know the source
of it. But I know I've had like I had a guide and she identified herself as a group, but I identified her as an seeing thing and I would get information and then she would One time she said I have to leave it, and I had become she was my friend, you know, so I was very upset that she was going to leave me, and she did leave, but she said, are the group the group that she said that they needed to leave because I was now at a different stage of development and I needed other guidance,
And so my and I wrote this in my journal. I asked, so, is it going to be the same, you know, will it be similar? Well, because I really had a friendship with this oh wow, And she did tell me, yes, it would be, but it would be also different. And it's to me, it's very different because I don't have the same type bond. Yeah, water style.
So is it usually one guide at a time.
Or say that? I can't answer that, you know, because I know I've talked to people who have who would say, like it's a day and then individuals and maybe it's there a deceased grandmother. But it's hard to answer, just like I kept calling this person a name that it was a group, yeah yeah, and then the total self communication, you know, that can be interesting too, So.
And I'm sorry, that's like a like a higher version of yourself.
Right, higher self. Bob called it total self. That's why I tend to say that, but higher self, Yeah.
That's fascinating as well. You're essentially is it like sort of like the idealized version of your spirit or so.
One way to look at it would be you are let's say, your higher self is in the crow's nest, and you are the captain of your ship. So there's little little self and big self and so the higher self is seeing a much broader perspective and the lower self is the one driving the boat that's getting information with our five senses, hopefully getting some sixth sense information because they're doing things like dream analysis and or just paying attention and being aware. And so that's how I
would define it. So it is it is you, and I would say it's the self that's connected to your soul.
Wow, I really like that analogy.
You find out by the end of Robert Monroe's third book, So like in the second book, he you know, he went out of body thousands of times like wow, you know, and they studied his brain and it's a whole amazing thing that you know, the formation of the Institute and the early explorers and all this amazing stuff. And he would regularly communicate with these guys, guys that weren't humans. They were like energy beings called AA and BB. Right by the end of the third book you find out
that and BB were Robert Monroe. But it was like from his higher self, you know what I'm saying, Like all along he realized after you know, twenty years of doing this or thirty, I mean really from the fifties to like the nineties, you know, it was forty years he had been doing this by the time the third book was published, and because I think it was published in the nineties if I remember correctly, And he realized after forty years that these entities that he had been
communicating with were him, Yes, aspects of him, Wow, from some greater level of understanding than he could perceive, you know. And they didn't even reveal it was him until he was ready for it to be revealed. There parts of him.
You know.
So it's just that's a head scratcher, Like it was kind of a mind blowing reveal. You know, it was very fascinating to me, you know, so big time.
That's you kind of have to It's so abstract at times, it's like you really, at least party, you just have to let go. You just have to and just like this material brain maybe can't fully wrap around what's happening, and that's okay. As long as I'm having the experience and it's positive, that's all that matters.
And it might not be positive because you're working through things. I Bob and his first book was running around screaming all the time.
Pincher people. Really yeah, was out of body?
Well yeah, I mean it's shocking. It's got to be so shocking, especially because it just started happening to him, right he wasn't seeking it well.
And a lot of times, like I had written about a dream Ob I had, and I realized after I was out of what I would call out a body, that there were these two men who knew you were up to no good in the room. Well, of course they weren't there, and I knew. I just I don't know why. I've never been afraid of it, but I just knew that it was representing something for me that needed to be a shadow or something that I needed to personally pay attention to a work through, and so I just kicked them and left.
That's how I feel about nightmares, that it's it's some shadow part of me that trying to tell me something, you know, and it's not necessarily a lot of people think of it, like you said earlier, like an omen or a superstition, and like, well, no, maybe it's more like a mess.
She working things out. Yeah, And I love it when I have a nightmare and I become aware and I can like just turn the whole situation upside down, like that wolf that's coming after me and about to you know, attack me. I can you know, take charge and yeah, turn it into a bunny. Yeah, or kick it or you had to kick stuff.
Getting a theme here. You're kicking all sorts of entity, right.
But if you can, if you really can look at it like that. And Luigi Scamarella is one of our trainers from the UK. He's a loocid dreaming expert and one of the things he looks at or talks about with dreams is so like when you dream about people in your dreams and let's say you know them or
you don't know them. Typically, about eighty five percent that was a figure that was given from a researcher, About eighty five percent of those characters are parts of yourself interesting that you are needing to, you know, work through, do something with address. Maybe it was something that happened during the day, and you'll start and I have a parade of people that are regular characters, and I've you know, I've interpreted and identified what they mean. So then they
pop up in my dream. I have an easier way to deal with that. Lucid dreaming is still dealing with as of yourself. The obee is when you step out of that.
Yeah, so even when you when it's somebody in your dream that you know in real life, it's still an aspect of you.
Yeah, that's what Martin Kelsey is the person that I followed and read about, and that was his theory about it, and it made sense to me, and I used it, and so I believe it because I've had the experience of working with my dreams.
So the same in my opinion, the same could be said about why we are psychic or why we are immortal beings of energy, you know, because it's almost like where you know, if you're if the character in your dream is an aspect of you, then certainly we must be an aspect of that source consciousness. That's kind of like projecting us into existence, you know. It's kind of the same thing in a sense, you know, which I don't know. It's another head scratch.
Yea, it is.
We don't know. We just don't know all the answers.
Yeah, for sure. But you know that's that's something I like to think about. You know, there has to be some reason, right, Yeah.
Like what the nightmare thing your brain, your mind, rather not just your brain, but your mind. Your mind wouldn't just like want to scare you for no reason. It wouldn't want to just ah, I'm going to scare you and freaking out. It's like, you know, it's it knows what it's doing. There's a mind body relationship. It doesn't want to just like sabotage. So it's everything means something I don't know in my opinion.
Well, and with dreams, lucid dreams, out of body experiences, you also can you just need to remind yourself. Dreams are tricky though, because you're not consciously aware typically when that nightmare is happening. But with the lucid dreaming and the obe you are, so you just remind yourself, Hey, nothing can happen to me. They can't. That person that
I'm seeing is scared. You can't do anything to me. Yeah, And then that's why it's nice if you can turn your dreams into you know, turn them around.
Right, I'm not really usually in that situation. One more thing that's sticking out to me that that I think is kind of another important ask is like, since you've gone down your journey with Monroe, how has your daily life changed? Have you found that you know the techniques that you've and I already kind of know the answer, but it's for them, right. Have you found that, like, the techniques that you've learned have helped you manage trivial
things such as stress, anxiety, things like that. You know, how has it changed your normal daily life?
First I was going to say, because I took the question, is now that I'm in this job, It's like, yeah, it's changed my life a lot.
That would be fun.
It's a big job. But no, that's true. So I had two situations that happened after I'd been doing a meditation Duram practice for a while, and I wrote about them in the book that made me realize that a big shift had occurred for me. And one of them was I was having surgery. And these happened within months of each other, and I was having surgery, and they brought me in to the room where the surgery was going to take place, sat me down where I'm looking
at the table. I'm looking at all of the you know, equipment that they're going to views on me. And the nurse starts taking my pulse and she, you know, she keeps hanging down there a little bit, and then she goes, you are the calmest person that I have ever taken a pulse before surgery. Wow, And I had been. I used him a sound technology support, that operation thing, a surgery thing to prepare for the surgery.
Interesting.
But I also know because of what the next exact sample I'm going to tell you that it was all it was just throughout me like it was. It was a part of me now. And the other was I live in Oklahoma, and Oklahoma has a lot of tornadoes. Right in this particular day, thirty tornadoes touched down in the state of Oklahoma.
Oh my gosh.
And I knew about it because it was on the news, and so I prepared the little interior room. You're supposed to go into a room that does not have an outside wall, So we had one. It was a half bath, and I had three dogs and my daughter and would grab the you know, supposed to always have pillows, and so I had the pillows and the radio so I could, you know, if the electricity went out, so that we had a siren and the person would I mean the
voice would come over it. And the voice said take over. Immediately, it was like, okay, so I calmly, get you know, everybody in the room and we're sitting there listening, and all of a sudden, the broadcaster on the radio says, the tornado is over Iba Drive and Loper Street, and I'm like, that's that's me. It's right, it's right above my head. And I was so calm, and I was just like, well, I'm either I mean, it's either going touchdown or it's going to keep going right right, that's
perfect for that. So but again it was just like, you know, a totally different thing. Now years later, I have now an r ring and it helps measure stress. You know, there are a lot of smart devices I have. So it's interesting to me look at my stress levels now because I'll be like, things will be happening that are very stressful that I'm having to manage, and I'll look at the end of the day at my stress levels, and it's like thirty minutes maybe in the whole day,
you know. And yeah, and I joke about it, if I had if I'd gotten this position ten years ago, twenty years ago, I would probably be in a fetal position. Not just because it's such a big job. Yeah, well you're managing a hotel. Yeah, and you're managing an international operation. You know, it's it's a it's a lot research through your doors. Yeah. Technology.
Yeah, that's amazing, it's impressive. You were impressive. You are amazing.
Thanks.
You know, just what an honor that you're here with us doing this.
Absolutely, Thank you so much, thank you.
I've enjoyed it. I'm glad I got to touch sand today.
Yeah.
I regretted not taking a selfie by the water. We'll have to get one in here for sure, you know. But I really do regret that there was a service truck in front of us and she didn't have the proper shoes to step down in the sand. And we're walking away and I was like, oh, I got a nice right.
That was I have a beach girl.
Yeah, well you got a free place to stay anytime.
I'll take you up on that, yes, yes.
And I will be your way and Fober Virginia soon, and just thank you for coming and doing this. This is amazing. The Monrosa has changed my life. Yeah, I mean for sure, I think a lot of people can say the same thing million you know, And after going there myself and experiencing it for myself, at least as far as I'm concerned, I have dedicated my path going forward to make sure that one way or another, I'm I'm somehow doing something with Monroe. Whether it's programs, whether
it's becoming a trainer, I don't know. I just I just know that it's a good thing for me, and therefore it has to be a good thing for others too, you know. So talk about it to as many people as I can. And very cool that you could have this conversation with us, and hopefully it impacts people out there, you know.
So I'm sure it will.
Yeah.
Also I have to say that I thought it would be really cool for the people out there in the world to see what an amazing person the CEO of the Monroe is. The two days, So thank you, thank you, And if there's any one more thing that you could I like to ask the question, like if there was something you wanted to get off your chest. If you're like imagining, there's actually you know a large number of people that you feel like you can make an impact
on them with a message. What's that thing that you feel It could be about Monroe, it could be about anything. Just what's something that you feel like? Man, I wish people would take me seriously about that. You know what I mean?
I said this to you earlier today, Start saying yes, you did say that and yep, start saying yes. And you can always say no. And I like to say I'll try anything once, but say yes even if it scares you. Yeah, and it's going to take you a lot more places.
It's powerful, it is. That's something that I want to do a lot more of. I like that I'll try anything once and sometimes. Yeah, doing that is it'll you'll discover something about yourself you didn't know. Yeah, I love that. That's powerful.
Another one would be pay attention to the things that scare you because that probably means you need to get over them because it's important. It's important for your future or your you know what you're going to be doing next.
That's very powerful, Like for me particularly right now, you know just it resonates with me, and you know, maybe if it's scared, you kick them.
Well, mine was public speaking, just really scared. Yes, And I joined test Masters, which is a nonprofit organization that helps you learn how to improve and get over fears.
Wow, you never know it, You never know that you were.
And then I talked of communication and public speaking on the university level. So I made myself get over it. Yeah, I just I said, yes, I just kept doing it.
Awesome, Well, thank you for coming and doing this, And I said, yes, yes, yes you did. I was very I'm honest, I was very shocked because not that you know, for any negative reason. I just thought you'd be too busy to drive out here, if you remember. I was like, I'll come out to you. Yeah, you know. So when when I found out you were coming here, I was like, guys, guys, we got a big one. You guys are gonna love her. Yeah, thank you for doing this from other things too, so yeah,
I mean it works for me. So just I can't thank you enough. So I'm going to stop. And we have a very simple and really ridiculous way that we end our show. And we look right there at the camera and we say bye, guys, Can you do that with us?
Yes?
All right?
You ready? Yes? Bye?
Guys?
What ut bmies.
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