Weird thing, weird weird. Welcome again everyone to a special episode of Bled. Sub said, so we have I know, I'm just embracing them with like I just wanted to match your energy with arms wide open to Uh. We have another trainer from the Monrosa to a good friend of mine who was at the Creator Gateway with us, but going through it with us, and I think it was on like the second to last day that I even found out you were a trainer and I was like what, so, I don't know. It was kind of
mind blowing. But we have Emily Thomas.
So great to be here.
Thank you, thank you.
Yeah, we're excited to talk more Monroe stuff. It's a really fascinating topic to me right now. I'm just like drawn to it, so I'm excited to talk to you about it.
Yeah. I remember like sitting beside you on the I think it was like the first uh, I guess debrief we did, or maybe it was like before we even meditated, right, It was kind of like an orientation on the first day and you were sitting to the left of me and you were wearing I remember exactly what you were wearing. It was that like baseball tea. You remember the Monroe one. Yeah, yah, you were wearing that and I look over and you're just sitting there, and I was kind of like nervous
about introducing myself to everybody. And I was just like, hi, I'm Ryan and You're like hi, I'm Emily. Oh cool, you know, and we got to talk in and I don't know, I just like, I just remember that moment before the experiences like knowing you, and then I remember after just completely viewing you in a different light, and I think where that shifted for me. I wanted to
wait till your episode to tell this story. I don't know if you remember this, but there was one time in the cafeteria, I think it was for lunch one day, where I was standing beside you. We were getting our food, and I was like, that was very stressful. It was the first time I went out of body. It was kind of an accident, and I was explaining to you that I was freaked out, and you looked at me and you were like, dude, you're fine.
Do you remember this?
I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were really blown away.
It was like intro to out of body and yeah, you were just like, oh, you're totally fine, it's normal, and you're and I'm like.
Yeah, you're no, you're right, you're right. Yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine. Everything's fine. Fine.
I was, I was really freaked out. But then from that moment on, I just was like, you know, I don't know, I just felt like such a comforting energy from you.
So, so was the Creator program. It's like a version of Gateway.
Yes, no, it was gate It is Gateway.
With cameras and okay, okay, I get it. So how many if you haven't an approximation, how many Gateways have you done?
Well? I have only done and this has been in training to be a residential trainer. So I've done for in terms of training to be that to train Gateways, I've been or attended two Gateways. And then before I ever did any of that, I did they have the Gateway Voyage kind of on CD, and so I had purchased that whole series long long ago and did it over and over and over and over again. That's a benefit that you can do.
Oh that's cool. I didn't know that that was the thing that you could you could do.
So that begs a really important question for the listener. At home who might not have the funds or the resources to make it to the institute. In your opinion, Emily, do you think that this is like a great starting point for individuals to like, will they get the gateway experience from listening to these tapes?
They will get close to the gateway. I mean, what happened for me was that that was exactly what happened was I didn't have the money, and I didn't have the time. I was young, and I was poor and working in all of that, so I couldn't take a week away and I didn't have enough money to pay for it. And so it was still a substantial outlay, because I mean, I don't actually even know how much it is now, but it was several hundred dollars to
do that. But you could do it a little bit at a time and get a few days at a time, and it provided me with the beginnings of the skills to get to the different focus levels, to get to these different meditative states. And yet I could do it in the comfort of my own home.
Yeah, and at your own pace.
And at my own pace. So I could do one particular one over and over and over again. If I liked it, and so at the time it was life changing. I'd already been very familiar with Monroe Institute anyway, but at the time it was life changing. It was exciting, it was mind blowing. It was all the things that Ryan was just saying, you know, freaking out and you can have all these amazing experiences, and so it's a
wonderful way to begin. Absolutely, it does not quite compare to being on campus and doing it for a week, though, because once I did that, I was like, oh, oh, okay, I need to come back here. I need to find some you know, some way to be able to do it.
It's a social thing too, you know, you're like experiencing it with people, and yeah, I mean, nothing could ever compare it to the in person experience. I totally get that, But it sounds to me like you kind of go way back with Monroe based on what you're describing.
Yeah, it's been sort of in and out of my life. So when I grew up, I grew up first in New Jersey, and I was always kind of like a weird, mystical kid anyway, and having out of body experiences when I was really little and things like that that I didn't know that that's what they were.
Wow.
But I had plenty of things like that, and fortunately I was the kind I had the kind of parents who didn't try to talk me out of anything that I told them. Good, So I was able to just kind of experiment with it. When we when I was sixteen years old, my mom and my dad and I decided to move to Virginia and one of the first houses that they looked at was very close to as in, within view of the Monroe Institute. No way, that's the first time I heard about them. Yeah.
Wow, So we were a kid. I was a kid.
I mean I was sixteen and I was standing there in front of this house that we almost bought, and the real estate agent was across the street going and down there is the Monroe Institute, and god knows what she thought. She was like, they do some weird things. Yeah, and so so I remember that. I mean, that's sort
of like, you know, etched in my memory. Yeah. And then after that, uh, you know, I kind of went through my own phase of agnosticism and atheism, and I was a super rationalist in all of this kind of stuff. And then a friend of mine read the books that's always the start, and then I found the books. Yes, so and ended up doing an internship. So I when I was eighteen or nineteen, I would go and visit.
Oh that's so cool.
I knew none of this. This is amazing.
I didn't even know they did internships.
They probably don't anymore. I mean, but it was a brief thing.
Right, Yeah. How cool to be eighteen like doing internships. It's such a spectacular place. Yeah that cool.
What does that entail? Like working the microphone?
I know, right, no idea what he did?
That place changed me?
I I I now that you say that, I have no clue what was going on.
Yeah.
All I cared about was being able to get on the grounds because the grounds are mystical, The grounds are powerful, the energy there, and so that was when I first started hearing about the binaural beats and the meta music and and all of that. So that's how that, really, you know, began.
You got thrown in thrown she's the girl next door. Yes, the whole time, I didn't know any of that. That's that's like really an amazing background. Emily. That is so cool. It's like your destiny was to be where you are.
It would not leave, you know, Yeah, I just came in and out.
Wow, when you went after an internship, did you at that point know like roughly kind of what it was about.
Like, it wasn't even that it was a friend of mine and I to visit, So I didn't even I wasn't even the intern. Wow, but I didn't know. I
knew that it was about out of body experiences. And this goes around to what y'all have been talking about some I think on this podcast, is that what appealed to me at the time was that I was in this sort of atheistic, super rationalistic phase and when I read his books, it helped me integrate everything that had happened to me when I was a child, and all of that mysticism that I had come by naturally and intuitively, and then the rational rational I could do it. I could do it.
No, that's like really mind blowing to put it that way.
It is, well, it's kind of similar to Robert Monroe's origin, right, it just started happening to him. He was like a scientific, rationalistic kind of person, and those two worlds just crashed into each other. And then look look at you. Now it's it's it's kind of similar.
Yeah, but like I think, to expand on that deeper, it's I didn't think about this, but like Monroe really is kind of the place right where that those two things meet. They have just as much data, if not more, than anyone in the world phenomenon that involves, you know, consciousness. Like that's just it's profound. I don't know, it's just I didn't really think about that. All I could think about is like, what can I learn next, you know, Like, no, that's really cool.
Well, I think that's one of the really cool and interesting pulls to Monroe from at least what I can see from the outside, is that, like so many people are like rationalists, and they use that to kind of clash against the spirituality. But the truth is that they they actually go hand in hand beautifully and one overlapping.
Yeah, juststerium.
One can inform the other and does inform the other, like they work closely together.
I think to flesh it out. I'm more along the lines of realizing, like I think, I think Monroe is really going to go down in history bigger than it is. I mean in a big, big way of kind of like bridging the rational in the you know, the spiritual, the metaphysical or whatever. I don't know, it's exciting. It's
just like there's so many exciting things ahead. But no, that's like really cool that you grew up next to them, Like I don't know, so Gateway, So you did the tapes right, and you were like having that sort of you were just on the edge of did you go out of body with the tapes?
Yes, I did kind of what you had referred to in the past, Ryan, which was that whole bit with your arm moving, and I did that. I remember writing in my journal I just had an out of finger experience and I was so excited with that. But I, yes, I definitely did that. And I also had episodes. I also had episodes of things like sleep paralysis or waking up and feeling waking up, not really I was awake and sensing a figure at the end of my bed.
So there were some scary things too. But I think that one of the other values of Monroe is that it's allowing with support and with energetic support, with personal support and with trainers support, it's allowing people to have these kinds of experiences and kind of be held along the way. Yeah, and then the more that the years go by, these experiences aren't unusual anymore. This happens all
the time, and that's why. Like when you were standing with me in the lunch line and you were freaked out, I was like, of course you're freaked out. It's normal to be freaked out. Everybody's freaked Outalizing freak out can be helpful.
It helped, you know, it truly helped. Like it changed the whole course of my day. And I was like, no, no, you're right. I am fine, Fine, that's not the deal. And then I and then an hour later I did it again and I was like that was awesome.
Serious, Yeah, so you went out of body. I mean, it doesn't automatically happen, not at all, and for a lot of people, it takes a lot of practice. And it took me a lot of practice too, So I would have the out of finger experience and then the out of hand experience and all sorts of weird things. But it took me, h, I want to say, maybe another four years or something like that of sort of dipping in and out with curiosity and then working at
it and being intentional about it. I'd had out of body experiences when I was younger, but they weren't intentional, and the key was to do it on purpose, you know.
Yeah, was curiosity the like driving force we talked with Archie about, like people's why why they're doing it? Was it a curiosity thing more than like when you first start reading these books and hearing about it. Was it just a curiosity thing?
Very much?
So?
Yeah, I wasn't even thinking that much about what had happened when I was younger, although some of what had happened when I was younger was sometimes a little frightening, So I didn't really want that to happen again either, But I was intensely curious and I just so wanted to see what more was out there.
Yeah.
So were you maybe like blocking those experiences from you your younger years, you know, or were you more so like not necessarily yet making the connection between the two, or like.
I kind of think that my unconscious had already made the connection. And yes, it's took a lot of effort because I think I was blocking it. I was afraid that those things were gonna happen again.
Yeah, so like kind of down the road you realized maybe there was a connection there. Yeah, that's that's really cool. Kind of like it sounds like what's going on with him, like with all this sleep paralysis stuff like, it.
Can be traumatizing. Yeah, scary.
I've had it once or twice and it's freaky.
It's just I mean, especially if it's happening to you when you're a kid and then like going like fully out of body. I mean if that had happened to me when I was like with no education, none whatsoever, like I would be particularly freaked out. And that, Yeah, it can be very rattling, can have permanent effects on you, So I mean, yeah, that doesn't surprise me. But it's it's good that you have had enough experience with this now to know that, like it's not scary, it's not
a bad thing. Nothing bad it it's got to be healing in a way.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's kind of a full circle phenomenon in a way that you can sort of reframe it into something natural or into something kind of magical really, and it also affirms just how powerful we all are.
Yeah.
Absolutely, Yeah, it's very empowering for sure. Like something I told you this a couple hours ago, but I'll say it for the listener. Something that came through to me at Monroe. I haven't said this on the show. I don't think like on the three part series. There's there's a lot of things that came to me that I wasn't ready to share, or maybe I felt like I never will because it's personal. But something that came through to me is like our whole lives. People would message
my dad or they message us, why you? Why are you having these experiences? Why do you think you know? Why you? Why you?
Why you?
Why you? So we did this exercise right where it was like ask your higher self five questions. So one of my questions was something like, uh, you know, why is this happening to me? Or when did this start for me? Or something. And something that came through to me, and it honestly was life changing for me, was you are not special because everyone is right. Don't worry so much,
don't think about it. Everybody is special. You are light beings walking amongst the earth basically, like that's the reality of what we are, Like, we're all special, We're all from a special place, you know. And yeah, that was very perspective shifting for me.
That was like a comforting thing for you to.
Oh yeah, It gave me the answer I've been seeking my whole life, Like, yeah, it doesn't matter to think about some grand reason why things are happening to me, because everybody has a grand reason for everything happening to them. It's a paradox in a way.
Yeah, you know, like, h it probably made you feel a lot less alone.
Yeah, it did?
You know?
I told you you might remember this.
Guys.
On the last day of the Gateway, I was like, I was like, oh my god, I finally don't feel like I'm alone in my life, Like I've always felt like everywhere I go, I'm the crazy one or I don't have anything to relate to. And then coming here, I was like, I finally feel like I I'm normal, you know what I mean. And I'm sure you've probably felt the same way, you know, when you started going out of body. But enough about me, So yeah, so
you start going out of body with the tapes. Now I'm curious what it was like when you went there for the first time.
It was extraordinary. I was And by the time I got there, I was going through a period in my life where I had sort of unbelievable work stress. I was directing a local counseling center. And I won't get into the details about that, but it was just really traumatic some of the stuff that was going on administratively and everything. And by the time I signed up for that gateway, all I cared about was the fact that I got to lie down for a week. I didn't care what happened. I get it, you lie down. I
don't have to be responsible high I did not care. Yeah, And and also back then they don't do it as much now because of the the the cell phones and the need to be in touch and everything. But back in the day, they would come around with this basket and they would make you put your watches uh in the basket, and then there was no time for that entire week. You only responded to bells when they would ring your bell, ring the bell for dinner and lunch and you know, to come back, you know, to do
a meditation or something. So you lost sense of time altogether, and there was no calling home, and there was it was great.
I really need.
So. And I think it was the very first exercise I was lying down, and again I was a little familiar with it, and I sensed four beings, two up by my head and two by my feet during the exercise, and then I could sense sort of them putting their hands in my abdomen and sort of opening it up and like messing around in there.
Whoa.
So that was my introduction.
That's start. Oh my gosh, the first extra again, you were in there like beyond like resident tuning in the initial stuff right at first, like actual yeah.
Wow, wow wow.
And I was like, uh, y'all, what are you doing? You know that is in wow?
Yeah, that's that's that's a lot of process.
I don't know what I would think.
When I asked what they were doing, they said we're breaking you, which might sound and when I shared it later, some people are like, oh, that's so negative. But it wasn't. It wasn't it was. It was we're resetting you.
Yeah, maybe humbling you a little bit.
Yeah. Maybe I felt it was more like we're taking you apart and putting you back together.
Yeah yeah, yeah, that's really cool.
Was that a scary feeling?
It was just odd? I don't know. I think by that point, you know, on.
The ride, I'm on the ride. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. Yeah, wow, take my guts apart and really that's fine whatever.
Yeah, No. The since I get from that, though, it's like, yeah, like I know, you said, they're like resetting you or they're taking you apart and putting you back together. It's like that's crazy because I mean, first of all, I don't know what I think about that. Yeah, there's a lot to process, but yeah, it's like, if I had to guess, it's you know, you you had these experiences as a child and it was very frightening, and because it was so frightening you you had a certain philosophy
for years and years and years. So maybe that was your resetting point if you could start over. And I mean it's like now you're like you're literally teaching this, You're you're you're initiating countless others into this experience now, you know, like where you are now is so different from where you were then. It's like crazy.
Wow.
So were you there for the Creator? Yeah? Yeah, So how how was that compared to the average gateway?
The average gateway, I don't know if there.
Was the baseline there is very high high.
It was really just it was an absolute blast. It was such a privilege to be there, and it was Also I didn't know what to expect with the cameras and with people who were going to be thinking about that sort of thing. And it was a little like, you know, what if they say, is you know, negative stuff or.
I don't know, yeah, I know, ye, I never even thought of that.
Yeah, I mean they could people do and have the right to if they have a negative experience. It wasn't about trying to make sure everything was only positive. But yeah, I had been asked to be a participant as a kind of support along with another one, Agnostio, and so I didn't really know what to expect going in or if there were going to be cameras around all the time, and you know all of that. And from the very first day, everybody, including you, Ryan was so warm and
so pleasant. I just knew it was going to be so much fun. So I had kind of a parallel process in a way, because first of all, I was a participant, but I was still supposed to be in a in a I don't know, a reperive kind of role, I guess you could say, yeah, And so I was sort of paying attention to that and really enjoying interacting
with everybody. And then I was also doing Gateway two point zero, right, hey, Yeah, And so it was going into the exercises as a as a different person, as a person who more than a decade had passed since I'd done that first one, and I had a whole other range of experiences that were right for me at the time. So it was again an absolute blast.
Yeah, you guys were a masterclass. Like I think, the more I talk about me with you guys and and sort of like the curtain is pulled down because you know, when people in the world think about Monroe, it's this I keep telling you guys this, like it's this big mystique. It's like you know, declassified Gateway CIA tapes, and you know,
like that's how the ordinary person thinks about Monroe. But in reality, it's just a amazing people like you know Emily and Archie and you know Big Nacio and al And it's just a bunch of people with their heart in the right place running this profound institution. And like the curtain comes down and you're like, wow, this, this this is really freaking awesome. Right. The more you guys are telling me about like the stresses you felt and
like the anxieties you had hosting this thing. It blows me away more like you guys handled this with so much finesse, so much just mastery, Like the way that it went off without a hitch. There was not a problem. There was not a I mean, to my knowledge, if there was no one told me right, everybody got along, There was not a flaw in the planet, just went perfect, And like I had no clue. You guys were so stressed, and it makes sense. What if someone came and they're like, oh, this place sucks, you.
Know, concern It was like like one of the things that I was thinking about is like, does the does the introduction of the camera take you away from the experience kind of thing, which I think you guys said they were worried about it kind of worried about that as well. Yeah, that's another one. But I mean it sounds like it didn't hinder anything whatsoever, which is great.
But do they always when they do a Gateway or any of these classes, do they always have the trainers or representatives in the class as well with whoever else is taking the course?
Do you mean, like in the role that I was playing that time or.
Yeah, yeah, like if you if like on a typical I'm not gonna use the word average on a typical gateway experience. Would like, let's say you have a class of like five people, would they typically also put in a trainer to take the class with. No, Okay, I think that's cool. I think that's really that's special because they kind of serve as a guide and they're like jumping in the water with you.
It's like, I told you, dude, I didn't know you a trainer for days. I found out later and I was like really, because we were doing everything together, the exercises, the debriefs and it. You know, it's like it's just the whole experience is it was mind blowing. Yeah, you know, I knew Ignacia was a trainer because we had correspondence before, you know, with Emily and everything.
But yeah, yeah, I think that's that's like a good thing because it's it also is kind of like a barometer, like you look at them, like, all right, they're not freaking out, So I think I shouldn't forget. I think I'm probably good. I think I'm fine. I shouldn't be freaking out either.
Yeah, very cool, but's so a question. What I want to know is like Okay, so I know a little bit of the question. Right, I'm trying to think of a different way to word this because I know now that you had experiences, you know, as a young lady, going out of body spontaneously and things like that. But then what I'm curious to know is, like, in what other ways did going to the institute and like taking the courses and what ways did it change or maybe
like enhance your life? What did it add to your life?
Right, That's a really great question because one of the things that's really important to me about doing my work as an outreach trainer too, which is the program where you can give two day workshops during a weekend, for instance.
And one of the things is that I also have a psychotherapy practice, and so I just feel like my whole professional life is about teaching human empowerment and learn helping people learn to trust themselves, learn to trust who they are, and to become more of who they are. And I would say that going to the Monroe I was going to say workshops, but even the programs or the workshops, those two day workshops really help us do that.
I think that the out of body stuff is fascinating obviously, I do, or I wouldn't have spent years trying to and eventually succeeding and doing it intentionally. And I think that having beings on me, you know, and saying we're going to reset you or break you or you know, that's fascinating, right, all of that, all of it really is. But I think that these programs really have the potential to heal, heal a lot. It did for me, yeah, really deep healing a.
Lot, and change my whole outlook on life.
Think about, for instance, when you got that message about I don't know how you said it exactly.
But you're not special because everybody is.
You know, what a burden lifted, right, I mean, the minute you find out that you are as special as everybody else and you have your part to play and you'd better play it. But you know, no, biggie, if you don't, but really you should. Yeah, and they all have. Yeah, but it's it's not like the whole world is resting on your shoulders.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's other people out there that'll pick up the slack if you don't. Yeah.
Yeah, there's room.
Yeah, that's a good way to put it. There's room. Yeah.
Yeah. And and and like you said, it's like we're all a piece of this puzzle, Like we all have a special part to play in this if we choose to participate. I think I think everybody is, you know,
truly special, and especially like after going to Monroe. I mean, I I can't tell you that that I'm not a completely changed person since coming there and be telling you the truth, like just so many things that I learned there, like for example, another thing, not only things that I learned from you, right with Archie and Maya and teaching us and communicating with all you guys. But then I'll
so like out of body meditation messages coming through. And one of them that came through was I had this question like why is this stuff happening to me?
Right?
And the other answer that came through, Oh no, no, no, that's not quite how I happened. It was like I saw something and it was it was that night when I told you guys, like, oh my god, I saw orbs in the sky tonight, right, a miracle in this guy. And then that night we all saw orbs. It was the last night and in my session when I was like out of body and I was seeing this stuff, I was doubting it. I was like I was doubting myself. I was like, no, no, no, that's that's not gonna happen.
And my high self came through to me and it was like, you need to stop doubting yourself, Like, it doesn't matter if you think it's you know this or that it's real and you can't change it. You can't. It doesn't matter what reason you come up with why anything is happening this or that or the other, or what special label you assigned to anything. It doesn't matter, because it's happening. You just need to go with it, you know. And that was like, wow, I never thought
about it like that. I really don't have to prove anything to myself just to accept that things do happen to me and it's okay, and I can't control if it does or doesn't, so I might as well just get up and keep going and accept it.
Yeah, there's your free will right there, right.
I don't know if that makes sense. I've never really said that one out loud.
But no, it definitely makes sense. That's something that we've talked about on the show before, where like in your life there have been points where you feel this need to just like prove prove it to people, and like I gotta make them believe, and like I gotta make them see what me and my family have been going through and they have to know that it's real and
stuff like that. So I mean learning that, like it's happening, it's okay, And you don't have anything to prove to anybody, not even yourself, not even yourself.
I want, I needed to prove for me, you know, but it's like, no, you don't. It's happening.
Yeah, yeah, talk about healing. Yeah, that's that's a heavy thing to carry it around, dude.
It's like six days of that six six days of what like four or five hours a day, right, like meditating, and I mean it's crazy.
Yeah, that's that's a that's a heavy thing to carry around. So like not having to carry that around anymore has got to have you feeling like your floating.
I came back smiling. Yeah, I came back. I was like, what's up, guys, I'm home.
Yeah. You know.
It's funny. The day after our gateway, which by the way, I did miss two exits.
Oh yeah, that's right.
Yeah, Because for those listening at home, they tell us on the last day, they're like, you know, you need to uh ground. People have reported missing flights and getting stranded, missing exits on the highway. I literally missed two exits. The day after that, like literally twenty four hours after being home, we drove to Raleigh and we were together with like fifteen or twenty of our friends, maybe more like fifteen of our friends for his thirtieth birthday. And
it was like this big party. I was so worried to go. I was so worried, like I'm not gonna be able to blend in. And I go there and I was just like, I love you all, I love everybody. This is a fun, fun this is amazing. No, I was so worried. I was so worried the energy would clash and it didn't. And there was at one point in the night. I don't know if this is normal. Maybe you guys could, like I say, you guys could arcus Rand, but you're the one with the mic, so
I don't. I don't know if you could like comment on this, but like, definitely, for days after leaving, there was a lot of crying. Oh sure, yeah, a lot of crying. And that's not common for me. I grew up with a grandpa was like, you know, suck it up, like you don't cry, and to me, you know, it's like a thing. I'm not a big crier, but after Monroe that has completely changed. And yeah, it was like anytime I would think about it randomly, it would pop into my head and then I would just start crying
and all these thoughts would come to me. It's like what if it was what if it was a one time thing? What if I never get to experience that again, and what if I never get to go back? Just all these thoughts cycling through my head and I would get emotional. I know that's not true, right right, but it impacted me so much being there that it just, I don't know, just like open up this well of things.
So there was one point at the night when I was at his birthday party where I had to step outside for a little bit because it popped into my head and I was like, I gotta go outside, and I went outside on the back porch. I sat down and I looked up and boom, I saw a norb and I was like, I'm good and I went back inside.
But were they I'm curious because like that's a big emotional release, and I mean obviously goodness, the amount of things that are happening to your emotional state while being there, Like, there's gotta be some residual feelings afterwards. Were they like sad tears, happy tears, fearful tears? Yeah, all of them, a combination of all.
Yeah, I don't know. It just kind of like opened you up. Yeah, it sounds like it really just unfound territory.
It open I'm gonna reset you real.
Hey, at least it didn't say I eat you for lunch or so.
That would have been far more unsettling.
Yeah, this is interesting that we're on the topic of like emotional state and being emotionally open and stuff. Being a psychotherapist, do you see a connection between like the emotional state and expanding consciousness, Like is there a profound connection there, because I've heard things like that.
Yeah for sure.
Yeah.
I feel like what happens is when people expand their consciousness and they become more aware beyond the filter that they're normally using in every day, because that's a lot of it is our consciousness is and our brains are a kind of filter, and you know, once we start to loosen that filter a little bit and allow a little bit more in then something kind of like what Ryan is describing, where you were able to let go and release and cry and that wasn't a sad cry,
it was a free cry. It was something releasing, yeah, you know, yeah, and loosening. And one of the things that I was thinking about when you were talking is that the reality hasn't changed, but your relationship to your reality, your relationship to all of the phenomena that you've experienced in your life, has changed. And it sounds to me anyway like it's gotten a bit lighter, it's more joyful.
Yeah, yeah, lighter.
Yeah. So, I mean he's a perfect example. I think of the expansion of consciousness and how that can affect the emotional state absolutely daily.
I wonder also about about if different emotional states could cause like a different experience with expanding your consciousness, Like if being in a sad or depressed emotional state would make it more difficult or maybe easier, or you know, I just I wonder if there's a connection between the emotional state and consciousness in general. That's just something I think about.
I think one thing that we've seen, especially in you know, the psychotherapeutic world is that if somebody has had a lot of trauma in their life, and if they're way of relating, for instance, maybe they have a lot of huge emotional ups and downs many times, not always, but
many times. Sometimes when they have sort of altered states of consciousness, the stuff they experience might be a little more frightening, you know, So they're kind of going into it with maybe a kind of a chaotic or disorganized or a generally frightened aspect to them in an emotional state. And then when they are in a state of consciousness which the very speed of their thoughts it's determining their reality and what they're observing, then what they're going to
create or experience might become more frightening to them. And then the opposite can be true, right, is that if you're feeling really, really wide open, then you might have a lot more light experiences. However, I also think, and I could say this from personal experience too, maybe you guys too, if you've done some of this, But like, if I go into a meditation or some kind of asking for guidance or whatever, and I'm miserable and at
the the bottom of my barrel, or whatever. Sometimes that's exactly the time when I get that helping hand, you know, and it feels like a blessing, like something has come to me to help. So it does vary a lot.
Yeah, yeah, certainly it has to. Everybody's so different. Yeah, I'm sure this stuff is more difficult. I mean, do you guys notice that that, like some people have a harder time expanding their consciousness or breaking into some of these like the focuses and.
Yeah, yeah for sure.
Yeah, even I noticed that. What did you notice just people around us like giving us feedback at debriefs, being like, well, you know, I kind of have maybe have a little resistance.
People who are hard you know, really hardcore skeptics, people who think that they want to know but actually have a lot of barriers and that kind of stuff, they will have a harder time. Yeah, but it's not to say that this is just the power of suggestions. So if you're really suggestible and ready and wide open to you know, see angels, that then you're going to see
angels and that's all you needed. But yeah, definitely I think that and also people who go when expecting an afraid of what they're going to see might see it or interpret and maybe that's the real thing, is the interpretation. The interpretation of the phenomena is maybe the most important part. So if you're afraid, you may interpret what you see as something fearful.
Sure, yeah, yeah, that's crazy because that first time that I had the out of body experience, and then I talked to you in the cafeteria after and you were like, no, you're fine. It's totally normal to be, you know, freaked out by that or whatever, and you know everybody is at first, and I'm like, oh, yeah, it came to me in meditation right to alter my affirmation, just not
to change it, but to add to it. Because Archie said on day one, you can add to it whatever you want to add to it, right, say the four You can boil it down, you can stretch it up, you can sell that the affirmation however you want to say it. You just have to hit the four core points. So I was like, let me add a fifth core point, right, and mine was I will see without fear. So from then on, when I started having these out of body experiences at the institute, I started saying, I will see
without fear, I will see without fear. It's okay, I will see this, you know, phenomenon that I'm observing without fear suggesting it to myself. And it did help. And the first time that I spontaneously went out of body laying in bed at the house, I wouldn't necessarily say it was the kind of experience where like I'm out of my body and I'm walking around. I was like, it was like, I'll describe it to you. Maybe you'll
have some input on this. Yeah, It's like I'm laying there and you know, if you close your eyes you can still see, right. But you know, is really weird now that I think about it. Two nights ago, when I started to go out of body, I just remembered this. I could see the wall with my eyes closed.
Wow is that normal? Yeah?
No, well normal, No. I just it just came to me as I was telling this, like I could see the wall with my eyes closed, and then I you know the hand thing that I tell an Archet episode, Right, But the first time this happened after the Creator program was about two months ago. And I'm laying there and like I said, even when your eyes closed, you can see because you can see in your mind's eye, right, obviously you can't see with your eyes, but you can
see with your mind. And the vision that I could see in my mind started, it just kind of started like not a literal snake, right, but it started slithering like my mind was going on this like wavy pattern, and it felt like it was changing. And next thing I knew, I was downstairs in my dining room, and I was like, WHOA, this is weird. And I looked at my dining room and this is the strangest thing. But I'm just gonna tell exactly what I saw. I saw myself, but I looked like a clown, but like
a scary clown. What And he turned. He had long black hair and it was me with like this white paint. And he turned and he looked at me, and he put his finger to his mouth and he went like, you know, kind of like I don't know, like be quiet or something. I don't know. And then it changed and I wasn't seeing myself anymore. I was seeing this strange machine. Like if you've ever seen the movie Howel's Moving Castle, it's like a Japanese animated film. You know
you've seen it or you seeing it? He said, yes, it's it's it's a it's a it's a Japanese animated movie, but it's really good. And it was like produced by Disney, and it's this Wizard's Castle and this Wizard's Castle is like this machine and it's really weird and it's like this abstract thing that has all these like weird cod
parts and yeah, it's a weird thing. And I was seeing a machine like that, like that was so abstract that it was just kind of had all these whistles and pistons and things, and it was like really like aggressively doing all this mechanical stuff. And this information was coming to me that I was being like tuned up.
And then it changed, and then the vision changed and I saw this stone statue and it had its hands up like a Hindu deity, and its tongue was out and it had these wide eyes, and uh, it's shocked me. And I could see the stone texture and everything, and it just shocked me, and I went back into my body. The next day, I was so perturbed by this. I was like, what the heck was that stone statue? I started looking up Hindu deities right with the with the tongue out and the eyes wide and I found out
it's Collie. I was like, oh great, doesn't she wear baby necklaces? Baby skull necklaces? No, seriously, like in Hindu mythology, you know what, I'm talking about death, the goddess of death. Ye, darkness. But you know, there is a view, and I guess you could say, like Buddhism or Hinduism, that the more shocking the image or the vision or the supernatural experience, the more uh aggressively it's dissolving your ego.
Oh wow, you know.
And what's really strange is a week before I had this out of body experience, something was sent to me in the mail. Let's take a look at what it was.
I don't even know what it is.
Oh, whoa, it's a pyramid by a gentleman named Meta Mancy on Instagram. Look at the bottom. Who's that?
Oh my gosh? Yeah wait what with the baby's necklace? Yeah?
No, yeah, no way. So I was freaked out a little bit. Whoa, So I started digging what does this mean? What does this mean? Oh? It's you know, it's fine. The more shocking the image, the more it ceased to dissolve your ego.
Like wow, this like energetically permeated your vision.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I'm I'm kind of working on a theory right now that like it's important to learn to see without fear, you know, like you you know, sometimes things can be frightening, but maybe it's okay, Maybe it's a test, Maybe it serves to break down your barriers you have in your mind. I don't know, it's just theories, right, But I don't even know how he got here.
But it's a magic journey that we're on, my friend. We just we just go where it takes, where the energy takes us.
What's your take on that.
I'm sorry, no, no, no, you you mentioned something earlier about there was Lifeline. We were talking about Lifeline and then you said that you do.
Was it reliefs or oh right, retrievals?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, retrieval what what is? What is that? Because lifeline is remind me what lifeline is? She should Yeah, you're right, I've never done fair. Yeah.
Yeah, I took Lifeline. It's a graduate program at Monroe and it is a program that's based primarily with a service orientation, with the idea that we're taught essentially how to go into other states of consciousness and be able to find and locate in those states of consciousness, if you want to say, the souls or the consciousness of people who may have died and are not away air of it.
Right. I heard about this vaguely. I would love to hear more about this. That is beyond fascinating.
Yeah, it's a for me anyway. It was a really profound program. It was one of the ones that I was really dying, dying, come on, I really wanted to take and it met all of my hopes and everything because we were taught how to get to a state of consciousness in which we might be able to locate
or find those people. And then there are several states between that called the belief system territories, where in the past podcast with Archie we were talking a little bit about what people like expect when they die, and these
belief system territories could be described as that. So it could encompass anything anything, whether it's a Christianity or whether it's Buddhism, or whether it's nothing or whether you know, no matter what it is, if people are thinking strongly enough and believing strongly enough that that is what's going to happen, then that is what their consciousness will create. And so in those states of consciousness, those are the belief system territories.
So it's like thought forms, right, kind of like we can be trapped in thought forms of fear at death if we have bad ideas about death.
Right we could, right, we couldn't you help those people? Yes?
Yea?
And it could be people who aren't aware, like as you were talking about. I think then where you don't believe in anything, so you still think you're in your physical body and you've got a ghost, right, And so that's a possibility. And then there is an area beyond that that is essentially human created, created by human consciousness, called the park, and that is a place of rest and regeneration for souls to go to after they've died.
Wow.
So what we do is we go to that place, we find people that might be stuck, and then we bring them through the belief system territories and essentially the idea is to get them to the park where they can be greeted by souls that are there to do just that and take care of them, and then they can rest and just go on their merry way. We just sort of drop them off there if you will.
But sometimes what happens, and why I'm describing the belief system territories is that if that person's beliefs had been strong enough, they don't always get all the way to the park. Sometimes they kind of drop off into those territories. And that's okay because now they're not stuck. They're just you know, at a different place. But so we're in this other state and learning to do that. And the reason why I wanted to do that so much was because after learning how to do that, I would go
to places that were kind of famously haunted. So I spent time in Fredericksburg, Virginia, where they're both the Revolutionary War and the Civil War had been fought and there had been battles there, or going to the Civil War battlefields and kind of helping people out and just going into that state while you know, sitting in the field
or whatever. And then the other thing that once you learn those skills, if someone close to me has died and I'm concerned because of who they were in this life, then I would at least feel like I could have the ability to go and check on them, make sure they were kind of not stuck. So it's a service, and it's one that's really really meaningful to me. But it's also empowering because you know, I mean, you start to realize that all all everybody needs is love and helping hand really.
Everyone.
Yeah, wow, yeah, gosh.
That's so profound and what a cool thing. Yeah, the service aspect of it, like with great power comes great responsibility kind of thing. That's I find that really admirable because you could do this kind of stuff and have these experiences and explore and but to have the opportunity to reach out and help beyond the physical realm is like, it's so mind blowing. I don't think there's enough people submitting applications for that job. I think I think we need a lot of people on that on that job.
It's hardcore.
That's incredible.
One thing that was really cool that kind of blew me away, and I can't remember. I think it was after taking Lifeline. You guys may have seen this, but it was a I think it was a Brazilian movie called astral City.
I haven't seen it.
Astral City, I don't, I don't.
Think so much. And it was about a man, a doctor who died and it followed his life in the afterlife, and this was a movie that was based on channeled material. Oh and so it followed his life in the afterlife.
They interestingly, for what it's worth, they called him a suicide, even though he hadn't actively committed suicide, but because he so completely ignored his health issues, they still called it that wow in the afterlife and he had to kind of he had this experience that we're talking about today, where at first, because he didn't believe in anything and he'd been negative enough and bad tempered enough when he died, his experience was one of darkness and was really scary,
and he had to sort of awaken and open his eyes in order to move ahead and beyond. But what really hit me was that once he got into what's called the astral City and he started being of service and learning to help other souls that had departed, it looked in so many ways like the Park. Yeah, And I was like, oh my gosh, like, look, there's a real similarity. And man, you can't make this stuff up.
Yeah, I mean, I have so many questions now, like are there ever any moments when you're doing like retrievals or lifeline type you know, meditations.
Are there.
Are there any spirits or whatever you want to call them in particular that you've spoken to on more than one occasion?
Do you mean like people that I was helping.
Yeah, yes, like day days a part of me, like different days, like oh you know what I mean, Like any familiar I'm just curious, like I'm curious about the connection or the relationship that could be made on the other side, that that could go on. If that makes sense. Oh that's possible.
Yeah, Oh absolutely, yes. I had been married, my husband died and I was able to contact with him, and same with my a niece of mine and my mother.
Oh so yeah, Okay, now I'm starting to get the sense of like why this is such meaningful work to you?
That's yes. I mean my mother died before for me taking lifeline, and my niece did too, And in my first lifeline I saw both of them.
Yehow you were you were you trying to see them?
No?
Oh my god, we're just there.
Yeah, my niece especially, Yeah, were they.
Like aware of you trying to get to that place like me? I don't want to prive it's personal.
Not at all. No, I mean they were really just kind of hanging out, and I find that I found that more reassuring. Like Mom was busy. I got this impression she was kind of like a tour guide at a museum. I mean, you know, yeah, that is fascinating.
I wonder if you even could find some soul, a specific person's soul intentionally in that place, how would that even work. It's just it's the whole the lifeline stuff is really fascinating.
It's so fascinating, man. And and this just came through to me earlier, but it's like, how crazy, Like I feel like this is such an amazing conversation, and right now in the month of October, like you know, Halloween around the corner, Yeah it is. And it just feels so like festive to even be talking about such a I don't mean strange in a bad way, but such a like bizarre topic. You know, I don't know, like me and Jenny have been watching spooky movies, but this
is riveting stuff. Like there's so many questions that come to my mind about this.
So on the topic of Halloween, though, do you think that doing a lifeline on Halloween or on these solstices where the veil is thinner, do you do you have you had or witnessed a change in the connection or do you think it has an effect on on I mean either lifeline or gateway as a whole, or any of them. In row practices, ours was a solstice, remember in June, it was the solstice.
Yeah, we had that. I wouldn't be surprised, especially at those those thin places, as they say, But I would say from my own experience, though, that my intent counted for more than anything else.
Yeah. I think that's a great answer. Yeah, yeah, I think that's true for everything, right, Like those things don't necessarily matter, But then again, it's like they do. You know, it's weird. You know, on a full moon we have trouble sleeping, and.
Well the traditional stories about these like solstices and like all hollows eve and like whatever. Is that just like random weirdness occurs, right, Yeah, things just kind of slip through and stuff like that. But I think what you said about like your intention counted more than anything else, that's really the kicker, Like, you know, the random stuff happening. Who knows, maybe it's a thing, maybe it's real, maybe it's not, But the truth is the intentional get you there now?
Your consciousness that kind of focuses it all.
Yeah.
Yeah. And if there's more random weirdness, all you're doing is focusing more of that maybe, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's like it don't matter if it's spooky day or not, Like your intentional gets you there.
Yeah. Yeah, that is so cool. So you said it's empowering, like you know, doing the retrieval work, and I'm just curious, Like I'm curious about the changes that came over time, about like how you viewed your relationship to yourself and the universe big picture when you started to have proof of communication with the other side, you know, you're doing the lifeline work and all that, Like how did your thoughts about things generally change?
Honestly, I don't know that my lifeline work changed a whole lot. Has changed a whole lot for me in terms of my relationship, and I think that's because those were some of the things that ever since I was a little kid, I was always seeing others and or feeling them or sensing them. It was such a part of my life. So this lifeline was kind of like
giving me the tools to do something with it. Yeah, I do think that some of the other programs helped me, helped empower me and give me the tools to sort of live out that life of service or what I'm trying to be and kind of like what you were talking about of also understanding what it is to not be special, to just have my task. All I have to do is this task and the rest. Try to get some joy while you're here.
Yeah, just do your.
Part and then try to get try to have some joy. Yeah, as best you can.
Yeah, it's not all on you. Just you play your part. If you're a cog in the wheel, that's just as important as every other cog in the wheel. Yeah, there's true, really beautiful about that.
Yeah, there's so much less to fear. And then the less you fear, the more everything opens up to Yeah.
The more you attract. That's that's a hard lesson to learn. That's like threading a needle, you know, it's it's very hard to learn. Have you done MC squared?
I have not.
I'm very curious about that one.
Maybe that's your next one.
Well, they can godline conversation, but that's you know, well, we'll see if we'll see if the universe aligns there.
What's the deal with MC squared.
That's like energy. I mean, you could probably fill in a little more, right. It's like basically like spoon bending type stuff and like using your mind to like kind of like alter things. Light bulbs, light bulbs, psycho it's like psychoconesis type stuff. Like it's a program. It's called MC squared. I'm not sure what that stands for, but that one really resonated with me. I definitely want to
take that one. And Guidelines. I was going through the website the other day because I had to do a research assignment for an undisclosed Monroe project I'm working on, and I was just reading all the different programs and going through them, and I was just like, oh my god, guidelines. This is perfect. This appeals to me. And it's basically it's a whole program. There's there's guidelines, there's Lifeline, which
is what we've been talking about. There's Heartline, which I guess that's like what being more heart centered.
It's all about unconditional love.
Yeah, yeah, and then I think that's all the lines unless I'm mistaken.
Yeah. And MC squared is Manifestation and Create Creations squared and what I think what it really is about it's it's the spoon bending and the lighting of bulbs is away of showing us in the physical how much we are able to manifest and change create, Right, that's the principle behind it. But that's like showing you.
Yeah. Yeah, I very very poorly paraphrased it. You know, it's like it's amazing stuff. It's amazing stuff. And then guidelines is like, by the way, for those listening, these are all things that are after Gateway, right, So like Gateway is ground zero, like that's where you start. That's where if anybody out there is like super interested Monroe and you want to dive in Gateway, right, And then they have all these programs after Gateway. That's like, wow,
this is cool. I can you know, help the dead crossover to the other side. I can you know, binspoons with my mind and have tangible proof of the manifestations through my will you know? Or you have guidelines, which is like where you connect with your guides or personal guides and receive communication from them.
And that's something I've always been fascinated. Yeah. I want to meet them. Yeah, I want to meet guys.
They're there, have a word with them.
I just want to be like, thanks, Homie, I appreciate your dog, but I just want to talk to them. I know they're.
There, man, Yeah, they are right there on the other side of Yeah, I get that, man, like yeah, the introduction. I just need someone to show me how well. I mean now I guess I know who.
But yeah, that's awesome. That one is particularly fascinating to me. That one is Lifeline, Like those sound like the coolest, that's yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's crazy. There's there's a lot of incredible programs.
There.
Are there any other that you've done or that you have like significant experience with that stand out to you?
Heartline?
Heart Line? What's that like?
Oh? I mean that's essentially spending the just about the entire week in that heart space that you're talking about, and in learning the power of love as a force, even a primary force, I say, or in making allowing it to be the primary force in your life. And there's there's a lot of different aspects to it, but it's it's about largely creating coherence between our thinking mind and our heart and the wisdom of our heart and sort of in training that together. And Archie would be better.
He's a trainer for it. I mean, he would be better at describing it, probably, but that one was deeply meaningful for me. It is for a lot of people.
I know that while we were doing the Creator Gateway, because I had lunch with Alan and Arkie one day and Amy was with us. We just sat together for you know, one of the days that she was there, and we were just talking and I was just asking her. I don't even remember what I asked her, to be honest, it doesn't matter. But she ended up telling me that they while we were at the top of the mountain doing our thing, the staff was down at the bottom
of the mountain doing Heartline. So it's like, huh, Heartline, what the heck is that, you know? And I went
and looked it up and that's very cool. But I thought it was very cool to know that like that the staff is, you know, going through programs, and it just gave me a sense of like, I don't know, like thinking about you guys, like for example, you and Ignacio going through the Gateway with us, even though you've done it many times and you teach it, you know, it's like, you know, well I want to experience it too, right, Yeah, it never stops the Seeking Never stops, and I thought
that was really cool, but you know, very fascinating stuff. It's it's very profound, like the impact that it has had on me so much so that as you could probably imagine, I really just want to help other people to be introduced to it, you know, and like I really appreciate you coming and being on the show.
Thank you for inviting me. It was just such a really privilege and an honor. Thank you.
I appreciate it.
This was great.
The Institute reached out to me in March and invited me to go, and I was honestly shocked. And I don't know if I specifically said this on our three part series, but like, it's just so funny because I was invited to go in twenty twenty two. I know I told you this story, but you know, for the Listener's segment, I was invited to go in twenty twenty two for their first ever private UAP event with my
dad and my sister and several other people. And I turned it down because I was like, well, we have a podcast and I'm afraid if I go to this thing that I won't be allowed to talk about it. And you know, you guys, go experience it and tell
me about it later. And they got back and they told me about it, and it was the biggest regret in my life saying no, like literally, like there's not many things in my life that I deeply regretted, and that was one of them saying no. So this March, I got an email and it's literally, hey, we'd like you to come to the Monroe Institute free of charge to make content and videos and talk about it.
So I was like, no way.
Yeah, I mean it's like it's you know, if manifested, you know, whatever you call it, manifestation is realm dripping over my words all day.
It's a lead day, bro, it's a little day. It's a Halloween leak day.
But if manifestation is a real thing, this, this to me was like tangible proof. Like I literally turned it down because I was afraid to not be able to talk about it. And now I'm being invited to talk.
Like we want you to talk about it.
Yeah please, So I went, and I don't know, it just was so meaningful to me that the you know, the idea to even go and and have the experience and how my like profoundly impacted me and being asked to like help promote and realizing who the institute and like who you guys are really as people, Like you're just people just like we are. We're three guys working a camera where you guys are like twenty or thirty people running the premiere Consciousness Institute of the world. Well,
it's more like one hundred trainers. But you know what I mean, you know the directors who run you know what I mean, right, who run the organization. It's like one hundred trainers, but people just like us who just happen to run this place. And it's like, wow, this is this is unreal, like just seeing behind the curtain
and I just I don't know. I made it my mission to try to help just help get you guys out there and help them listening to understand, like it's it's really not this mysterious place, but yet it is, but it's also not. It's really cool and it's really fun and really exciting and really like, I don't know, easy to get into. It's natural.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's nothing to nothing to be intimidated by, right exactly?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I was intimidated. No, I don't want to go there. I'm not gonna be allowed to talk about it. I don't know what to think. You know, my experience meeting people or you know, reading about CIA tapes and this and that, and then you get there and you see the reality. Yeah, it's just like the coolest, friendliest, funnest,
just kindest. Yeah, well intentioned the environment. But but then on the other side of that, like the level of mastery of the psychic, you know, the mystical whatever, it's it's the technique. Yeah, the technique of education. It's unlike anything I've ever seen. It's it's one of the best experiences I've ever had in my life. So anyway, I'm going on and on. I'm just really glad that you came. I'm really glad you guys would do this with us,
and I'm humbled. So is there anything that you feel like you want to get on your chest?
No, I think you said it really well. But you know what I was thinking about was that that concept of Monroe being sort of mysterious and and how what it really is. And I think all of us who are there are wide open and all we want is for as many people as possible to experience the largest sense of self they possibly can, you know, And is there mystery in that? Yeah, because anything worth exploring has mystery to it. Yeah, but that's where the fun is too.
So yeah, I'm really grateful Ryan for all of this that you're doing to get it out there. Yeah.
Yeah, I really appreciate that. I think that this is a wonderful collaboration that is only beginning, you know. So we'll see, we'll see what comes of it, right, but you know, the disgui's the limit. And well, because you were in the studio when we did our kis amazing episode, do you know how we in.
The show the exit? Yeah?
Yeah, So all right, bye.
Guys, Bye guys. What ut bonies?
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