Weird Things happened in the Weird Weird Weird. Welcome to today's special swapcast with I am Ryan Bledsoe and I am Nicker of Bledsoe said, So, joining us tonight is Meredith Hack with Edwards of Meredith for Real, the Curious Introvert, and we're also joining you. Yes, we are joining each other. This is the joining of the pupils because this is a swapcast. Yeah,
this is our first time doing a swapcast on our end. I'm actually excited because, like I said, like before we you know, ever hosted our own podcast, I'd always heard swopcasts. I'm like, oh, I want to do one someday. So here we are. You have made one of my dreams come true. So just for anybody who's on our end, who you know, who's catching up and is learning of Meredith for the first time, Meredith is super cool. She interviewed my dad and just reached out to
me. I think we had followed each other for a little while and you reached out to me through Instagram and you said the very kind DM about our show, and immediately I was like, you know what, I just think it'd be better if you came on it. So here we are. I think we've had at least one really long, really I think productive conversation leading us here today, and I just felt really good about collabing. So I'm
gonna get out of here. Yeah no, no, me too. I want to say what I say to everyone, what I said to you when I was noticing your show. I was, you know, playing with my plans as one does, and binging all of your episodes. And because one of your listeners, actually when the episode with your dad aired, one of your listeners reached out to me and said, hey, you need to listen to Ryan and Nick's podcast and specifically listen to the episode about the hypnosis regression
sessions. And then I think I had to reach out to you to figure out what episode it was, but I found it, and that's what I was listening to. I expected it to be much browier than it was. That the messagement. Yeah, yeah, I really did. I stereotyped you. Sorry about that episode, but it's like, it's so smart, but it's so like living room ish at the same time, and I was you very impressed. No, we're getting away from the bro thing. That's right,
that's right. No, I was actually tickled when you said that in the message, because like from the start, that's one thing that that we set out to not be was just some like you know, Okay, we're three males making a podcast, but we we we we really like our crystal girls who tune into the show too, so you know, and that's that's a that's an old meme that I don't think we've talked about in probably a year. But yeah, I mean we have a pretty sizeable female audience,
and honestly, I mean it's great. I think it's I love having like we have almost a fifty to fifty split, and that's like one of the things I'm most proud of about the show. That's yeah, I don't know that that really Yeah, we say dude a lot. If that makes you broy then that's kind of our We say bro a lot. Yeah, you do say dude a lot. I did notice that it's like it's a like a subjunctive, it's a noun, it's an adjective like it's in everything,
which but you know, there could be worse things. So so yeah, I was very impressed. So I want my listeners to definitely check out your show because it's really great, and I know a lot of my listeners I have learned are very much into the topic of phenomenon, which is something I didn't know in the beginning. But you know, I've been doing this since the end of twenty nineteen, so it's been a minute and I'm learning more
about my audience every day and they love it. So I really think that they'll love your show and mine is I cover sometimes phenomenon stuff, but it's not a phenomenon show. It's a society culture show, and I talk about taboo topics through nuanced conversations. So if you've ever wished that internet headlines weren't just Internet headlines, like if you could wish you could dive deeper into stuff, that's kind of what we do. So things like are trigger warnings helping
us or making us weaker? And how do you actually know if you're an alcoholic? How are we supposed to make friends as an adult? And why is male anxiety so stigmatized but women's anxieties like super accept it and you know, stuff like that. So it's it's fun. It's a really it's a really fun and uh, very it's it's stimulating for me. I really enjoy
the conversations that we have. So to to one of those points, I just visited my sister shout out Emmy and in Tampa, uh two weeks ago now, And yeah, she just moved to Tampa in the month of July. She's only been there for a few months, you know, coming from North Carolina, has no friends out there, really, and I kid you not, she there isn't there is like it's like bumble but for making friends.
And she goes on dates with people that she's made friends without. And she's found a young lady her age, I say, young lady like my sister's not my age, right, but you know, and yeah, she goes on friend dates through through a friend platonic dating app and it's it's really adorable. So I mean, it's never too late to make friends, right, I know. It's like their second date was right when I left.
They had their second friends. Wow. I love that. And then to the other point, you know, you you you had to encourage your listeners to come check us out. Well, I want to do the same to our listeners before we get into the meat of this. Yeah, because I got to say, like Meredith's I had followed you before your episode with My Dad even aired, because naturally, you know, me and my dad talk and he told he tells me who shows he's going to go on, and
I went and I followed you in advance. And I have to say, like your Instagram is it has an amazing esthetic. I think that the content that you produce is amazing. It's to me, it's very like, I don't want to say documentary style. It's very much like the vibe I get is you're like out there in the world, like you're doing stuff, you're documenting that you're doing stuff. You're hitting these really cool, expansive topics.
And I have to say, like, to be fair, our show is not really a phenomenon show either because we really talk about the phenomenon when it's relevant or you know, and it's on our hearts to share. But we talk about such a wide range of other topics, and I think there's a crossover between you know, we're just exploring a lot of spiritual and philosophical things. We're really doing the same thing that you're doing, just in a different arena. You know, maybe you're doing it better, you know, but
anyway, they're complimentary. I think our shows are in the same vein for sure. Yeah, so, yeah, I appreciate that, and I'm excited. It's like yours has a little bit more of like the social like dust on it, and ours has a little bit more of the spiritual dust. Dust was the only word that came to my mind. So I'm sorry, but when you combined dust with the hand motion that you just made it hits
like that tracks, you know, like I was buying with that. Hey, I want my listeners to know who you guys are, So can you introduce yourselves? Tell them? I mean, I've talked about your show, but can you tell them like who you are as you know humans? Sure, Nick, you want to go first? Sure, my name is Nicholas Fermanitis. I am lucky enough to co host Bledsoe said. So with Ryan,
we started it a few years ago. I started I really wanted to be a part of it because Ryan's been my best friend for over fifteen years, and I felt like if I could help him shine some light on his family and their experiences and maybe even have like some Catharsis come out of this project. If I could help him do that, that's like the greatest gift in the world that I could receive. So that's why I wanted to do the podcast. We also have a little band that we call twice Born.
I'm really into music, so yeah, that's that's that's me in a nutshell. You beat me too, and I I you might not know this, but now when I go on podcasts, I'm definitely dropping twice Born. We do have a heavy metal band, twice Born. It's like the podcast is our main baby, our bread and butter that we work on like all the time, and then we do have our other creative venture together. So twice
Born heavy Metals. It's our fun thing. And then as far as the main thing, I'm Ryan Bledsoe. I'm the other host of Bletso Said So And you guys listening from from Meredith's side of of our family lines here, I'm just gonna like say that our podcasts are like family. Now. I like to create that picture. We're at least weed smoking cousins. You sneak
out at Christmas and you're like for a walk. Yeah. But but sometimes I like to think of myself as like the wise old uncle that that like leads you out to the shed in the forest and then you find out he has all these magical mushrooms that are mushrooms. Yeah, I mean, let's let's just take it up a not you know, yeah, and then and then we'll and then we'll do a little d M T. No. But seriously, for those who are coming from Meredith's side, you should know who
we are if you heard my dad's episode. My father is Christopher Bledsoe Sr. He's like one of the most documented, uh publicly acclaimed. I guess you could call it UFO experiencers. He's a best selling author of UFO of God. And uh, we do have a recent documentary Channel or excuse me,
History Channel documentary episode Beyond Skinwalker Ranch episode eight season finale. It's literally called Chris bled so I highly recommend if you guys haven't heard that, you pause this right now, you go watch that, and then you come back, because then you'll kind of really understand what we're getting into when we get into some of this deep stuff. But that's who we are. In a nutshell. We talk about all kinds of spiritual, philosophical, esoteric, religious,
whatever, metaphysical occult. We talk about all those fun nuggets, but then we sprinkle in a lot of like our life experience dealing with the phenomenon and the DoD, NASA, CIA, all these intelligence agencies who've kind of like poked and prodded at me and my family throughout my life. We hit on a lot of that stuff too, So it's really a dynamic thing.
And honestly, I don't really think I don't really think there's anything else like it, So I think you're right, Yes, yeah, yeah, I take notes when I listened to y'alls high cast, I'm like, her medas is both nyras, what is all this stuff? Yeah? And also I'm super excited because until I've done the podcast, I really have not met a lot of people who also have a background and Pentecostal holiness. Yeah, and that is also my Christian background, Pentecostal holiness. So I'm really excited to
get into that today. Yeah. So maybe we should start there because I'm assemblies of former assemblies of God and your former Pentecostal holiness and they're weed smoking cousins, So we should let's set the stage. I think there's a big chunk of my audience who know what a simlies of God is. But maybe let's let's start with like Pentecostal holiness, like describe them, like, were you like tambourines and streamers or like what, No, no streamers because that
would be vain, right, Oh okay, oh there's no dancing. You want me to just run it through like what Pentecostals were, Yeah, run through it. Yeah, run through it. I want to make sure I'm respectful when I don't want to like, you know, hurt anybody's feelings. And you know, I still have a lot of love for Christ. And
I'm not saying, you know, shun religion. What I am saying is I've had a very traumatic religious upbringing, being a family who was having you know, very intense paranormal experiences and then going and telling people in the community, including our church, and then the way they treated us was very vicious, very cruel. So I'm, you know, like, I don't want to like lash out at Christianity, but it hasn't really been kind to my family. So I just, you know, it's it's how it is.
But I say all that to say Pentecostal it's probably like two steps removed from Amish, you know, like if you if you had a sliding scale of how strict your denomination of Christianity is it's like you have Amish at the top, where you live in these ascetic villages removed from society. They don't even have technology. And then it's like Mennonite, which is a level lower.
I'm not very familiar with Mennonites, but I know it's like, you know, it's it's very similar to Amish, but they still live in society.
And then you have Pentecostals, which are like imagine that, you know, if you've ever seen a movie that's parodying or satiring Christianity where it's like that old timey, really old tiny brick building with thirty or four people in the old fashioned hundred year old pews with the stained glass windows, and the only instrument they have is like a piano and tambourines, and like everybody's you know, very very committed to praise in like loud worship and shouting in tongues and
like all that's that's what Pentecostal is. It's extremely strict. Women only can wear long skirts down to their ankles, no piercings, no makeup, no hair color, you can't drink alcohol. I mean, it is extremely strict. Like every book or every word in the book is one hundred percent infallible. It is literal every interpretation that it like for you know, Earth being
six thousand years old all that stuff. It's like, it's like Pentecostal is one of those old timey really sort of like underground and modern times, like you know, maybe have an aunt and uncle who goes there, but not many people have really been there. I mean it's just strict, you know. And yeah, so it sounds like Pentecostal holiness is like the country cousin of a symbly of God, and Assimblies of God is like the city kid. Yeah, I'm not very familiar with assemblies of God to be honest.
Okay, So Assimblies of God is a sect of Pentecostal Okay, and it I mean, I can just tell you, like I'm not going to go through like the official whatever because I don't know it off the top of my head. But we swam in T shirts and short Yeah. Yeah, it was very charismatic in the worst up. I actually really enjoyed that a lot.
The Tambourine Lady was the fave Palm Sunday. It was my favorite, always thought it was just so beautiful because we bring in huge palms and it was just, oh my god, I love it and the highest Yeah, I loved it. I mean this was before Hillsong really became popular, So this is pre uh smoke on stage, you know, with like the the special effect, Like god, the fog fucking fog machine. Can I have to cuss on your show? I hope I have absolutely? Hell yeah,
the fog machines. That's when I was like, is my tithe money paying for a fucking fog machine? No? I am yeah about this life. But I loved Palm Sunday, So they did that. Dancing in church was okay. Dancing at a wedding, you know, you couldn't do like club dancing. Definitely, no secular music, no cussing, no sleeping together. A lot of people didn't like even kiss before they got married, like their
wedding day was their first kiss. There was. It was the nineties for me, so it was very you know, Joshua Harris, I kiss dating goodbye. If any of your listeners are closer to my age, they all know what that means. And yeah, so I'm purity culture yeah and yeah, but like but a little bit more like definitely make up, definitely you know, modesty, but also kind of modern. And the youth group was all the you know, the nineties Christian stuff like DC Talk and Jarza clay
Man, Love me some Jerassic Let's go. Yeah yeah. So Nick, are you from the Pentecostal holiness background too? No, So I kind of have an interesting uh duality in my religious upbringing. So uh, my family, like my parents, we always went to like your like stadium, non denominational, like you know what, like the big right, like the fog machine, Like the fog machine was in there since the day that I was going there. I'm pretty sure that church invented the fog machine. So it's
like, you know, a lot of that stuff and like that. I don't know if you've ever been to those kinds of churches, but it's it's very opposite to what you guys are describing with like the strict stuff. I mean, you still follow the tenants of that that like most Christians do.
There's not like cursing, you're not really gonna hear that that you don't talk about like drinking alcohol and you know, but it wasn't like girls have to wear a skirt and they're not allowed to cut their hair and like stuff like that. So that was half of it. But then the other half of the time I went with my grand parents, and my grandparents are Anglican, and if you're familiar with Anglican it's like one step away from Catholicism. Like
it's like it's like a Catholicism light. It's like it's diet Catholicism for sure. Like like they say the nice in Creed, like the you know, the the prayer is similar. There's like similar hymns. It's it's it's really really similar, you do. Like so in the non denominational church, communion was like the little plastic cup with the wafer and the grape juice. At the Anglican church, it was like everybody go to the altar and kneel and
fed unleavened bread and drink wine. Like if you're four years old, you're drinking wine, you know that, like that that kind of thing, And that was a more strict kind of thing. So it wasn't It's certain. I've been to church with Ryan many times and vice versa, and yeah, and vice versa absolutely, and I love the next church. I'm sure Ryan would agree. Uh, he basically just said it it's nowhere near as strict as as what he's used to. So that's my background, but that doesn't
take away from the severity of it, you know what I mean. Like it may not have been as strict as like freaking obey or die, you know, you got to follow these tenants, but it's it's still the same kind of like strict adherents and belief in the community. I mean, it's it's very similar to no, you know, it is in many ways, and I still to this day am like working out the kinks of some religious trauma. So like it still did its number on me. For here's an
example. Like, for instance, you know, I grew up Pentecostal, but you know what, my dad let me watch whatever rated R movie I wanted. He didn't care. You know, Nick went to a church. Uh you know, I'm not sure what church you went to as a kid, but his parents wouldn't even let him watch like Pokemon you know yu gi
oh, yeah, things like that that I was watching. So like, it doesn't matter whose church was more strict, you know, because at the end of the day, it's like what your family and what your parents believe and what they take home and what they put on you, right, and yeah, and I would add like your personality, like how you your personal internal filter interprets things, you know, how you your personal how you manifest the outer message into an internal world, and so that's that's it too.
So yeah, yeah, there's all kinds of factors there. I would like to know for you personally, Like Ryan, what was your how would you describe your personal faith pre pre January two thousand and seven phenomenon moment because I was gonna say pre Well, but phenomenon has always been a part of your life, so that doesn't really work, right, I understand. Yeah, like before I started having those experiences, Yeah, before the big moment. Well, I'm thirty now, and I know I don't look at I look
about eight. I know, let's get that out of the way for everybody. Whatever. But you look very spelt and manly and thirty. Thanks bro, you do. But yeah, so before all the phenomenon stuff happened, I mean I was, I was right there. Actually. You know, it's funny. I didn't really start heavy going to Pentecostal churches until I was
about fourteen. Before that, my grandmother was Pentecostal, and my mom and dad just took us to like this really strict, devout like non denominational church and then we migrated to the Pentecostal Church actually right around when I started experiencing the phenomenon. But like I said, I always grew up with a family who was Pentecostal, and my grandmom and you know, many of it was always in the family, right, So that's that's what I came from.
That's what I was. You know, I'm not gonna lie to you and tell you that going to these strict churches that I wasn't, you know, a little kid just like every other kid, you know, sneaking off of saying cuss words and playing grand theft auto and stuff like that. I mean, you know what I mean, Like, it doesn't really matter how strict your churches. Kids want to kids, right, But I still believed I still would sit up as a kid. Literally, I mean me and my
brothers. I have two older brothers and a younger sister. But my older brothers we would sit around and I remember, years before we experienced the phenomenon, my older brothers would be like, what what do you guys think aliens are real, and we're like, yeah, you know, and and I think I think my brother Chris Junior was like, well, when I die, I want to ask God if aliens are real? You know stuff like
that, Like we we really believed. And I'll never forget being like ten years old and sitting in church and hearing the other kids of the youth group being like, well, when I die, I want to go to heaven
and be the incredible Hulk. Well, I want to be a super saying you know, like you know, as a kid, like really believing in heaven, really really believing in Hell and having that deep fear of if, you know, if I don't say a prayer before I drive off a cliff and crash this car, I'm not going to go to hell or you know, should I always be on alert to say that last forgiving prayer to save
my soul so I don't burn forever. I mean, it was the cycle of constant and guilt and shame, like wanting to be a normal kid, but also living in constant fear of hell, and not even fear of the devil, but fear of God right, because it's you know, it's like work out your salvation with fear and trembling, fear the Lord that God right, and I believe that, and I feared and I as a kid, you know, going to Pentecostal churches, I would watch everybody around me go
and kneel, and my pastor, God bless him. He would say, uh, you know basically, you know, God, God, God is God is Uh, God is is is watching. You know, like if if you're if you're shouting and joyful and and and praise in church, that's that's appreciated. It's like stacks up in the Kingdom of Heaven. But you know, I'd be worried about the ones sitting in the pews with with you know, with sitting there cold and not not praying and shouting and rejoicing together
on Sunday. It was like that kind of culture, like this guilt that I'm not. I was kind of introverted. I didn't want to shout in church. Everyone's around me dancing in the Holy Spirit, and I'm sitting there like embarrassed I'm not, and they kind of shame you. Yes, it's a low key shame you. Yes, if you're not like outspoken like everybody else's quote unquote supposed to be it's it's messed up exactly. And I would so many times all the way up until I was like eighteen, regularly going
to the Pentacolt Church. I would walk myself to the altar every Sunday and I would kneel and I would pray, and I would pray, and I would pray prostrate on my face, trying to cry, you know what I mean, like trying trying to trying to shed the guilt and the shame. And I have to say it never worked. But that's what I really come
from. I really did believe that way until you know, two thousand and seven, Like I said, when I was thirteen years old, I saw the lights in the sky with my family, and I will say, I don't know if you're aware of this story, Meredith, but one of the very worst moments of my entire life, like if I was to die and pass through into the Bartow loop, where I see my life on repeat, like we all do, you know, you see the sequences of your life
play out and all the grand pleasures and traumas. I probably we would see this moment thrown in my face multiple times, where at thirteen years old, I watched as a Baptist preacher came into my house with holy oil and tried
to exercise the devil out of my dad for seeing these lights. That was that was the reaction from the church to us, you know, and at such a young age, experiencing this this phenomenon, all this stuff and you know, NASA cum and knocking and the CIA, and then the interaction with the church, it was it was very crushing and I realized, at a young age, they don't have it figured out. I think, you know,
they're in the right place. I think maybe at the time I'm thinking me, you know, fifteen twenty years ago or whatever, I'm thinking like, maybe they're in the right place. Maybe the Bible is the right knowledge, and maybe I should be here. But I know something that they don't, you know. That was my thinking, like I know something they don't. It's my little secret going out and seeing the lights in the sky. They're telling us it's demons whatever I know it's not. You know, we
pray and they appear. So it was this strange dichotomy of like having these experiences, having this this knowledge and all this stuff going on, but then still trying to blend into church and it didn't It didn't last. Yeah,
it's kind of like you had a secret in a way. How you described your response and your your reaction to your faith community is kind of like in a cerebral space, you know, like and you're a cerebral guy, you know, Like I've properly cyberstuct you, so I know, oh you know, you know, like like there's some people that really come from like a really heart led place and everything is about the feelings and charging their crystals in the moonlight, and I I I hear you kind of on the opposite side,
you know. You you said a word a minute ago that I'm like, oh, I should write the down another bar loop and yeah, well yeah, bar I'm gonna write it down right now. It's like the Book of the Dead. It's like when you die and you go into this spiritual state where you're seeing your life on repeat, and it's like, do I want to jump to the next life or where are we going from here? You know, to betan book always that. I love that, But what I would love to know is like, how did you feel about God?
Like did you have you know, to use jargon from our past lives? Did you have a personal relationship with God or was it truly just a ping pong of messaging that was you know, guilt salvation. Guilt salvation. Yeah, so yeah, like before the phenomenon, it definitely would would have been guilt salvation. I never I think that people can say all day that they have a personal relationship with God. But in my experience in life, I
have observed few people that I believe that to be true. And like, it's funny, this might come as like an out of left field hook, but like Nick's dad is one of those people who I've sat back and I've observed and I'm like, you know what, this guy really believes what he's telling me. Oh, really fully gets it. He really has that faith. But there's I've kind of like described it in the past as he sees through to the core of it, you know what I mean, he has
the ability to completely he has like horse blinders. He just sees right through to the core and he really has it down. I mean, I mean, it's I've never seen anything like it anywhere else. As well, he's hilarious. He's hilarious because he's like he's pretty open with you, you know, if you're in his inner circle. He you know, paraphrasing, he wouldn't say it exactly like this, but he basically like, uh, you know, I'm fucked up, but the Lord's got my back exactly, you
know, Like I'm pretty sure my dad has said that. I'm pretty sure that's tattooed on his forehead like that. That's what I appreciate about your dad. And then I'll get back your question. But just like, I see so few people in my life like that who are like, I'm not perfect, I'm not trying to be. I'm just trying to like I'm just trying to like get this message out and like, you know, have faith and you know, and I've met few people like that in my life. Like
obviously I would say my dad. But like as far as me, I never really felt like I had a real spiritual connection with God until I started seeing the lights. I mean, you know, going to church and reading about it is one thing, and it's like I felt like it was desperately seeking to establish that connection, but always feeling subconsciously in my mind as a little boy that I was going to go to hell. And every night as I'm going to sleep, I'm praying, please forgive me if I die my
sleep, don't send me to hell. Please, God, you know I'm sorry. Make me pure, make me literally, change me, just change me, just use me. Please change me, like, save my fucking life. I do not want to go to hell. But when I started
seeing the lights, it became more of a I I think. I think that you know, God is speaking to me here, God, God, I know you know it's like and understanding that, like, oh my God, there there really is something up there, like I see it when when we have these experiences, and and you know, you can ask Nick, you can ask Alex. They've seen it many times. I was just in flor I hate that you live six hours away from where my sister lived because
I know it'll happen. We'll make something happen. But no, it'll happen. Yeah, we could have skywatched, and like, it's one thing when you go your whole life reading about it or hearing about it or thinking about it when you see when you you know, when you say a prayer or you know, say the word Holy Spirit or the Mother or the Trinity.
I know to your listeners they might be like what, but you know we can get it that later I'm assuming that my listeners have listened to the episode with your dad, and so they kind of know the story, you know. I think a lot of them like went and bought the book. So I think we're I think we've got that baseline established. Maybe some of the details they'll just have to listen to your shelf. Do you get set?
Yeah? But when you when you see though, when you see these things, these miracles that mortal eyes should not be seeing, you know, how can you deny that you have a personal relationship with something out there? You know? Think about it. It's like you, you, you, you put out a prayer to the heavens and then a light appears. Well, I know, I say you, but I'm saying in my experience, I have a very unique experience here. But when you see this, it's like,
how can I not have a personal connection? And I feel like after having these experiences. Although I'm no longer a Christian, meaning, I'm not like keeping my mind inside the box of the religion Christianity, you know, I still love Jesus. I think Jesus, do you consider yourself like Christian adjacent? No, I don't consider myself religious. I just think that God is real. I think that Jesus. I think that, and and you
know, Buddha, I think Hermes truth Majstus Zoroaster. I think there have been many wonderful people throughout the several the last several thousand years who have had a very similar message at different AONs and humanity and have at the time that these people have come, they may have embodied a level of spiritual mastery that most people not ready to incarnate with and brought some knowledge that progressed the way
that people felt and connected spiritually with the One Great Spirit. You know what I mean. Like, I'm not a Christian. I see value in Jesus. I see value in Christ. I believe God. Do I think that God is only in the Bible. No. I think that God is outside of everything. I think that God is ineffable. I think that God is something that the more you try to imagine it, the more you push it away. It's like the tal say, when you put a name on me, when you put a label on me, you've lost me. Right.
I think that God is this force that is outside of our little games, outside of our little telephone game of well. I think it's Osirius well. I think it's you know, Jesus, Well, I think it's Kuanyu. I think it's bigger than all of that. I think that it is one objective force that is connected to all of us through the breath and through our spirit, and we can connect to it if we humble ourselves to the higher forces. We open our minds and our hearts to what is actually out there.
And just you know, you don't have to pray out loud. If you're self conscious about this, that's fine. I'm not gonna like religiously shame anybody, but you know, you can think it in your mind. Just whatever is out there, whatever is real, show me, connect with me, uh, fill me up with wisdom and guide me to understand what you are. And I'm telling you the synchronousities will be off the fucking chain. This is a good time to talk about mushrooms, don't you That sounds lit?
Yes. Also, you know, there's some kind of theory out there that the Bible is actually a story about psilocybin. I looked into it a little bit, but I'm trying to go deep on that. Like apparently all the allegories in the Bible, there's somebody that theorizes it's all about mushrooms, but sorry, go ahead, Yeah, I Lex Friedman just did an episode about that. I saw a part of it on YouTube, but I haven't been able to watch the whole thing yet. I just want to know,
like what role plant medicine has played in y'all's spiritual journey. Thig you started? Okay, all right, fine, plant medicine. All right, So I'm going to talk about two of my favorite plant medicines. Uh, one being psilocybin and the other being cannabis thhc Uh. I was recently able to get completely off of my antidepressants and my eighty H. Well, I guess it's searchraline, which is like a what's it called zoloft, you know, it's it's that kind of thing, like an SSRI SSR. Right, That's
what I was looking for, Thank you. I recently I've been taking SSRIs for four or five years now. I was having really really bad anxiety at one point, uh, and depression. You know, I didn't even know I had depression. I went to the doctor because I was having like my heart was racing, I was short of breath. I thought I was like gonna have a heart attack or something. But I went to the doctor and they're like, oh, no, you definitely have anxiety, but also take
this little survey you might also be depressed. And I was like, uh, all right, I don't think I'm depressed, but all right, and I like filled it out, and like the nurse looked at it and was like, yikes, you're pretty depressed. And I was like, okay, sure tell me what that means. And you know, so five years later, I've gotten to a point where it certainly helped me for a couple of
years manage my anxiety and my depression and stuff. But over the past like year, year and a half something like that, I feel like it's outlived its usefulness and it kind of started to have the inverse effects on me. And so just here, I don't know, two or three months ago, I got off of my ssri and now my daily supplement for that is cannabis. And let me tell you all the goods and none of the bads. I am more motivated and less depressed than I have been in quite some time.
Obviously, that doesn't mean I'm just happy hunky dory all the time. Like life still is hard sometimes and the anxiety is less than it was a few months ago when I was taking anxiety medications. So that's that little bit. But as far as psilocybin goes, I would say that psilocybin had a very profound effect on my spirituality. Let's see, the first time I did
mushrooms, and it was right before we started doing the podcast. It was I remember, Okay, I was gonna ask because twenty twenty November it was. It was because actually my wife and I and some friends, it was all. It was our first time doing it, and it was the like ten year anniversary of when my wife and I started dating or something like that. It was a very it was a significant moment. But anyway, that checks out because you just hit thirteen years last year. Yeah, okay,
all right, yeah, I just know everything about this guy. I know. I know. So we all did it together, and it was I definitely had an ego death, possibly for my first time. But the really profound thing that happened with me in that moment was I looked around the room. We had like neon lights and like we had it was decorated. We
did a whole big annoying thing about it. But and I looked around at all my friends and my little cat that was sitting on my lap, and my wife that was sitting next to me, and I remember looking around and having an overwhelming feeling that everyone in that room, including my cats, were all the same being we were just Wow. I was like, I looked at over at my friend Nathan, and I it was like I saw my soul in him, in his body. Wow, I saw his. Well,
it's more like I felt it, you know. It wasn't I didn't see, but it's like I felt his. And then I looked at my friend Angel, and it was like I felt his soul in my body. It was like the blur, the lines were completely blurred. I even remember looking my cat dead in the eyes and being like, you're the same thing as me. And and as Ryan said, as Ryan said, it was
right before we started the podcast, Yeah, months before. Yeah, just just a few months, because we started in like March or everywhere, like we started we launched in June. Yeah, we started working on it in like March. Yeah. Yeah, And I just remember, you know, we started doing the podcast, which is when I feel, I honestly like
had my first relationship, my first real relationship with spirituality. Was when we started the podcast and we started diving really deep into all of these like you know, these wisdom traditions and this esoteric occult knowledge and uh, kind of looking in the Venn diagram between in the middle of the Venn diagram, between all these different exoteric and esoteric religions, Like, I felt my spirit resonating
with this information in a way it never did with God. What I thought was God, you know, because I had the same relationship as you guys. I think Meredith, you implied that you also had that relationship where it was like, you know, apologize and then redemption, salvation. It's kind of kind of something that was definitely it's like a shame cycle. Oh, that's a great way to put it. It's absolutely you feel ashamed, so you reach out and apologize and then you feel better and then it just goes
and goes and goes. Because that was my only relationship with that God, you know. And so I think the combination of me having that experience with psilocybin, feeling the collective consciousness represented in my apartment living room, and then starting this podcast and learning about all this information that was that kind of jump started my spiritual awakening. Oh wow, that's really cool. That's really special that the podcast was like a part of your journey so far. Yeah,
well maybe the biggest part. Honestly. Since we've started the podcast, you've also had some pretty like hair splitting paranormal experiences too, you know. Oh yeah, which definitely helps. It puts the key in the ignition for these. Well, and I had had experiences. You know, I started going over to Ryan's house. Just for your listeners who might not know, I started going to Ryan's house when we were, like, you were fourteen, I know it was fourteen, And you know, a couple years two three
years after going over there that I started seeing things. I started having experiences. I had a couple when we were younger, not a lot. It happened a few times, but when we started the podcast, it started happening a lot. Yeah, you're right, Sorry, Ryan, Yeah, go ahead, Oh no, no, I just I know exactly when it was because I'm a grade ahead of Nick. We both have summer birthdays, so I know that we were the same age all year of a school year.
And when I was in ninth grade, you know, we were friends on the bus in middle school, and then I went to high school one year, and then when I was in the tenth grade, he came back and he was on my bus again, and we were like, what's up. And we were old enough to where our parents started letting us hay not outside
of school, and the rest is history. So that's why I know you came over when you were fourteen, r you know, Okay, Yeah, and I definitely want to hear more about some of those paranormal experiences, Like so let's like try to remember that between the three of us, okay, because I want to come back to this after we leave the realm of the psychedelic. But yeah, so what about you, Brian, Yeah, definitely definitely. Plant medicine been a part of your spiritual journey. I mean,
you know, like I would say the same like with psilocybin. I first had experienced it a few years ago after we had started the podcast, like very shortly after, and yeah, I mean I have to say like it's it's I mean, I don't talk about psilocybin or yeah, mushroom mushrooms. No, I had tried mushrooms, and I don't want to sit here and be preachy to people about like the effects it has on the brain. From a scientific perspective, I mean, anybody can google that that there's no negative
side effects. It's literally impossible to overdose. There's nothing negative to be gained from mushrooms work. I mean, sure, yes, sure you will beat And you know, there's all this, there's all this, like there's all this like Richard Nixon era, you know, nineteen seventy War on Drug stigma
about psychedelics, and you know, they put out all these commercials. You know, this could be your kid on acid, and they show this like really grainy fake video of somebody jumping off a roof and it's like they were so high they killed themselves. You know, they put out all this stigma about psychedelics. It's not true. It's absolutely not true. And like just just for anybody who is a kind of a scientific thinker, you know, you like to stimulate your left brain a little more or maybe it has more
activity than the right brain, you know, if you like data. They have rats and they made them ingest seventeen thousand grams of psilocybin mushrooms only, and only fifty percent of the sample size perished from toxicity. And just for a perspective of like dosage and things like that with psilocybin. You know, when I did mushrooms, the biggest amount was like four grams. Yeah, you know, like this is seventeen thousands. We're Yeah, it took seventeen
thousand grams from actually be full like you would be. You couldn't consumer. Yeah, they had to like inject it from like a chemical perspective. Yeah, but that'd be the whole room full to the top of mushrooms like a video game or something. You have to really try. Yeah, that's my point. It's impossible to actually be harmed from these things. So moving forward, what I will say is it helped me to change the way that I
see things. You know, and coming from a psychology perspective, you know, we have these barriers in our minds, our ego that that like, it's one of the things I learned in psychology, Like it is actually a pain full stimulus to the brain to challenge your worldview, to try and change the way that you see the world. You know, if you're Christian, or if you're Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist, you know, if you have some ingrained belief whatever it is, it's physically painful to the brain to try
to challenge that that belief system. But what we know about psilocybin is that it's like fireworks go off. I know I said I wasn't gonna be preaching about the science, but go do it. Wait wait, hold on, observation this is ten points if you get that reference. This is like the example of what I was talking about earlier is how you tend to be cerebral. Like I was like, Ryan, how do you feel about the mushrooms?
And you're like, well, here's the data, and so that's that's like, you know, it's neat to to to see how your your wheels turn in that way. But I would like to hear more about like the first person, you know, less measurable part of your psychedelic journey. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, So we know about the neurons exploding and
your brain thinks on a higher perspective. Well, for me, it was like yeah, it was like it allowed me to let go of very limiting beliefs and just you know, it allowed me to change my perspective and I think, just be like a more well rounded, open minded person and just be a little less judgmental and a little more open to trying creative ideas that are solutions that I may or you know, problems that I may have had in my life for a very long time that I couldn't come up with a
solution for because I was stuck in one way of thinking and one way of behaving. Mushrooms allowed me to think on another plane to where I could sort of like from a sideways perspective, see certain limits that I had within my mind and release them. It felt like walls were being knocked down in my brain. And that's the easiest way that I can describe it, other than the wall and the walls are moving, you know. But like the inner
workings of the process changed my life. And I've probably done mushrooms thirty or forty or fifty times now, and there have been some times where I wasn't in there setting and I freaked out and I felt negative, But you know what, later I had tremendous lessons to learn from it. And that's another thing that I, you know, want people out there to understand who haven't tried this is like, even if you have a bad experience with this kind of thing, it still teaches you in the end, and you still I'm
going to add a little context. The same night that I did mushrooms the first time, like an hour after I was like having fun with my soul and other bodies and all that beautiful stuff, I was in my room face down, having a panic attack. So yeah, let's put that out there. But I woke up the next day remembering the experience that I had, and I truly felt like a changed person. I mean I felt like I felt. You ever have that that quick moment of lucidity where you like kind
of feel like a kid again. Yes, you know, it was one of those. I was like, oh my gosh, I had I had like an or you feel old too. Sometimes you just feel yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, it was one of those. So yeah, so you may have a bad experience, but you'll you'll most likely have more of a positive experience. Yeah yeah, outside of set and setting like where you choose to do it. You know, be responsible, don't don't be an idiot, all that kind of stuff. Outside of that, if
you do have a bad experience, just breathe. It's gonna be over. You ain't gonna die, despite what many people around me. So I'm gonna uh you know, like you're not gonna die. Yeah, you're gonna learn from it, You're gonna grow from it. And sometimes we need to be
humbled, you know. Mushrooms throws things in our face, you know, psychologically speaking, that we might have been suppressing for a really long time, and it's like you have to overcome these fears, overcome these these issues that are in your mind, and you grow and you're you're stronger and wiser and just a more wonderful, luminous being on the other side. I think it's so spiritual. I think I think psilocybin. You know, this is gonna sound really weird, but it I think it calls to you. I think
plant medicine can call to some people. Maybe this is it's probably not everyone, but but that's how that happened for me because being Pentecostal, because a symbol of God is Pentecostal. Just in case people are getting confused between what
you're saying, Ryan Pentecostal, what I'm saying Pentecostal. But when we would sing in church or you know, we called it the worship session, it was basically meditation, like we would get into an altered state of consciousness and it was very vibrational, and we never used that word, but it very much paralleled experiences that I've had that were spiritual, but not in the dogma of in the context of like a church. Because I remember the first time
that I ever smoked weed, which was pretty late in life. I think I was thirty five, thirty seven, I thought, I waited, I was like twenty one or something. Your bring was almost developed to bring almost developed. Yeah, yeah, hopefully twenty five, so your brain was fully developed. But yeah, so I was like really late into that. But I had meditated before. And the reason that that's relevant is because you know, I took some of the medicine and see, my friends were so sweet
and they were like, Okay, how do you feel? And I was like, oh, I know this feeling and they said, oh, wait, what you do? Yeah, like when I meditate. And that feeling of when I meditate was also very similar of when we were in worship, and I would call it in the zone, and it's a physical vibrating feeling
from head to toe and you just feel this inner resonance. It's hard to describe that it actually does feel like a physical vibration and it's quite like you know, like you know, and we this, Oh, this one's really cerebral, Like it is cerebral in a sense, but sometimes it's a little more body. But when I smoked weed, that was the first, my first reaction. And just like you were saying, Nick, there has been been moments with marijuana where it would teach me things like this. One time
I was at the beach and I just had too much. Yeah, but I didn't. I didn't really realize it until you know, it's too late, until I was less enough. And so I went into the water and I'm laying in the water on like a float or something, and suddenly I just think to myself, I'm here. I'm here, right now, i am here. Oh my gosh, I'm here. This makes no sense,
but I just was like so present. I didn't realize how fractured my my own like consciousness was as far as like, yeah, my attention, like, you know, I'm talking to this person, but I'm really thinking about the groceries or you know, whatever, some something not really important. But I was like, oh my gosh, look at this beautiful blue green water and look all my friends there on the shore. And I started to cry and and you know what's beautiful though, is that feeling of being present and
mindful. I was like, I can access that, that's within me. That's not from the weed, but it is like the weed was like here you go. You know, it's like a little weight. It was what it was the teacher. It was your teach. It was the teacher. Yeah yeah, it only opened the doorway, but it was you exactly you yeah, like yeah. I think of it as like the waiter at a restaurant, Like the weed was the waiter. You know, your food didn't come from the waiter. Your food came from the kitchen. The food came
from the chef. The waiter just brought it to you. And the weed was the waiter, and it just brought it to me. And so I was able to kind of carry that and tap into that present mindset place after that, and so it didn't down the road I was. This year, I had my first mushroom trip, and I knew that I wanted to approach it from a place of like a ritual place, you know, like a
sacred place. Yeah yeah, yeah, like I felt I had been holding onto the mushrooms for about a year and it just didn't feel right, didn't feel right, and then it occurred to me one day, like a person that I could maybe asked to help me, and so I called him and it turns out he does it all the time, like, oh, okay, cool, and so he helped me and guide me through it and helps
with integration. And that was just completely beautiful and spiritual. And some of the nick you mentioned, you know, some of the traumas, the religious traumas, you know, a little bit of that came up. I had
more to do with the relationships within that setting. But so there was some what we call shadow work happening, which I didn't really sign up for, but we got anyway, and some really beautiful visuals that I didn't know what they meant, because I don't I don't like, I'm not that woo woo like, I don't know, like I just now kind of know which colors are which with which chakras. But it was this beautiful pink and violet and like swirling space, like yeah, actually, wow, that is so synchronistic.
I'm going to keep that in mind. Okay, I had a d MT experience. We'll get to that. I just wanted to make a note, Okay, Yeah, yeah, so it's like all these in everything in that kind of color spectrum, and then all of a sudden there was a butterfly, but it was drawn. It was a white butterfly as though I had drawn it, and it was moving, and then it turned into a
mandala, which was beautiful. But I was like, yeah, that came from my brain, of course, because I like butterflies, and who doesn't love a good mandala fractal geometry, Yes, I did, exactly so. But you know how mushrooms are a bit different than weed because in weed, you're like, am I in the future? I think I'm a dream? Am I the past? Like you just sort of old Like yeah, am I said, I don't know, Yeah, who are you? How have
we been standing here? But like mushrooms is so it's like it was a grounded experience, like I was still me, I was still present, but it was like it was a definitely it felt like I was hanging out with a person. And yeah, like to this day, I don't know, I just have this deeper reverence for it. But so mush the butterfly,
No, no, the butterfly was for me. The mandala, I'm like, yeah, that totally like came out of a deep place in my little hippie heart, except for then all of a sudden there was a serpent, and I was like, oh, I didn't invite you, and it wasn't threatening. It just it was also drawn as if I had sketched it, but it was just like out of the corner. I was like, oh, here's a serpent. Okay. And then later just you know, it wasn't malicious, but that wasn't for me. Like I'm not all down with
snakes. I mean, I'm not afraid of them, but I'm not like love a negative symbol, it's a spiritual symbol. Well, yeah, the guy told me that it both of all three of those things. Butterfly, mandala, and serpent are representative of transation, and so it was very helpful to have him there. You'll notice when you look at the ancient hieroglyphs of the eyes of Raw and Horace, they have cobras as the eyebrows, symbolizing it's it's like the Kundalini. It's it's the it's the energy that travels up
our spine and rises to our crown. You know. It's like we have thirty three vertebrae in our spine, and if you look at like the Wisdom tradition and Mystery tradition view on serpents and symbolism, it's believed that they might be the animal and nature that is the closest connection to the divine because they only have a spine, they only have a spinal column, they don't have any other appendages. They're just pure energy moving. It's it's just one way
of looking at it. But there's a lot of esotericism behind serpent symbolism, and it's not evil inherently. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean I didn't feel unsafe or threatened or anything by it. It was it was very very healing and very cool and a lot like what you said Ryan about how you feel your view of God is more expansive. Now, that's that's how
I feel about it. But it's really hard to put into words, like I still consider myself christian Ish, but I just feel like going back to church in the way that I did, or even just going back to church like like Nick you were talking about you went to like a modern contemporary, non denominational church, Like even doing that for me just would feel boxed in. And yeah, yeah, but I'm also not like charging crystals in the moonlight, Like I just am you like that to us? I got my
tom on gang Garry. What's up? We keep it on deck? You already know I like, I don't charge them in the moonlight. I keep selling it around and keep them charge you know. But you know what there's I mean. I do love my stones. I'm a I'm a turquoise girl, like all the you got the stones matchine the nails in the necklace. Look at that matching bro. So we're not a bro podcast, right,
like our crystal growth exactly exactly. I love it. Okay, So I want to talk about like the negative spiritual stuff or like the not it could be negative, but the abnormal, the the not like mandala butterfly thing. Oh wait, Ryan, you wanted to talk about something first about magenta. Yeah, I had a couple, Like I know, earlier I ranted about data numbers and all this bull crap. But to cut to the heart of your question, mushroom experiences. And then I'm gonna move to the d MT
one. So I had some pretty wild mushroom experiences, one of which was the first time I ever took like a pretty sizable amount, and I like just remember laying there and looking up and then eventually I closed my eyes, and when I closed my eyes and my mind, I just saw like this construct made of light, and I intuitively knew that whatever I imagined in this construct would emit a subtle energy to affect change in the real world. It was like, I got the sense that, like, whatever we imagine and
visualize is making a real impression in the real world. You have this little imaginary realm that exists in your mind, but when you really stimulate that and visualize that and believe in that, it's like manifestation. It's like it has an effect in the real world. You know. That was the sense I got on the mushrooms. And if you study all the mystical body of knowledge,
that's basically it. You know, there's even people like Nevill Goddard who have this whole system about using imagination to manifest you know, because the idea is that we are all fractal sparks of God. But then you know, it's like the universe exists within the mind of God. So maybe the minds of each of us are entangled to God. You know that maybe there's something real in the mental realm anyway, So moving forward, I did have a
couple of other really are shocking mushroom experiences. They kind of humbled me a little bit and made me pump the brakes for a while. There was one time where I was like so deep, and you could call it the mushroom realm or whatever. I mean, if you take a high enough amount,
you just look around and everything you see doesn't look normal. And I saw definitely like the faces of the people in the room around me were morphing and changing, and it looked like I was viewing their higher selves and they would have like four eyes. Their faces would be like changing directions and they look like this higher being and I'm like, damn like and it was too uncomfortable
to look at. And then like when I would close my eyes, I saw fractals of light in my mind of like these very massive like gestures unraveling these massive infinite tongues at me and this infinite fractal and it was like they were taunting me. And the sense I got from the mushroom was like I was so uncomfortable viewing everything externally that even when I closed my eye, it's like you're not getting away from me. We're going to show you what we
want to show you. You know, all of what you described. It sounds very similar to is Ecal chapter one where they talk about the wheel and the animals and there how they had eyes on different sides of the like I feel like you're describing the vision kill. Oh, it was very uncomfortable. It was very uncomfortable. And but you know, I again, it's like when you have those uncomfortable experiences, you still grow. Still. Sometimes I
think sometimes I think wisdom is gained from suffering. I mean sometimes I think we got a little be a little bit uncomfortable to grow and to heal. And you know, it's like mushrooms in nature only consume that which is dead. And I believe when we consume the mushrooms, they are consuming things in our mind that which are dying. You know, these old limiting beliefs inside of us that need to be taken away. I think the mushrooms are helping
us consume those limiting patterns and are helping us see higher perspectives. But moving forward to D and T, this is the real thing. I have to comment on that because that is so cool, Like I think listeners just need
a moment to soak that in, because Okay, that is amazing. And some people have said that their mushrooms visit them, like come back and minded in a meditation, And in the meditation they showed me as a decaying body in a field of wheat, and more mushrooms were coming growing out of my body and it was a beautiful death. It wasn't like a fear or gross or like gore thing. But so that is so freaking cool that you said that, because I never thought of it that way. So we're gonna just
mark that as this conversation is now part to my spiritual journey. Thank you very much. Ran. I've never heard you say that either, did Were you just like channeling? Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I felt a little weird, you remember how I explained to you. Sometimes I say things and like my vision kind of I had one of those moments where I heard heard it tune through my ears and my vision blurred a little bit. But moving past that weird shit, yeah, So so I just I feel that
way, like it's it's consuming that those old limiting beliefs within us. And then the other thing, Oh, this this is something I'm gonna say before the DMT thing and then we can surely move on. But this is something I've been thinking about for days, and I think that you have presented a
scenario in which it's the perfect time to explain this. But like, you can look at anybody that has been practicing a hobby their whole life, you know, like take Nick playing guitar since he was twelve, or me playing drums since I was, you know, sixteen, or Alex surfing since however old he was when he was adopted by his cowboy parents. But I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that was an inside joke from our show. I was just trying to see if these guys were awake. But we'll get over
that later. But oh shit, adopted by his cowboy parents. Ryan unplugged my microphone. There was that another channeling moment, you were no, that was that was to get a reaction out of you guys to be there.
Okay, well it works. Yeah Alex is over there laughing. But anyway, so yeah, you look at anybody who's studied a hobby their whole life, and you have to understand, like, Okay, tell me how to play guitar, and you can sit here and you can say, Okay, I don't know the order of playing, you know how you would learn,
but like, maybe let's start with some scales. You put your finger on the string on this fret or you know, maybe I'm like, you know, put your right foot on the kick, put your left foot on the hat, and then you're gonna put your left hand on the snare and your right hand on the hat, and you're gonna do this, and you're gonna
do this. But you really don't learn or even come close to mastering a skill until you've put in the time energetically touching and sensing and feeling this thing and developing a sensitivity to it. Right, Like, you're not truly you can hear intellectual jargon all day, but you're not really learning something until you're sensing it, until you're feeling it, until you're experiencing it and touching it, and over time that sensitivity develops and it grows. Right. Spiritual experiences
are no different. Right, And you just sat here and you told me that you never really felt any sort of expansive feeling about God until you did mushrooms, because those mushrooms allowed you to sense it and allowed you to feel it and develop the sensitivity to the subtle spiritual dimension that's around you. You just didn't know how to sense it, right, But when you take these things, they blast your senses way open, where you're feeling things differently.
You're attuned to the energy in a different way, and you're developing that connection and you're beginning to sense it. Your sensitivity is sharpening. Right, Like, the connection to the spiritual world is no different than any other skill or feeling that you've experienced. It's just more subtle, it's more invisible because it exists in the dimension beyond. Right. So like, the more you have these experiences, the more that sensitivity is sharpening, and you begin to feel
things differently. You begin to have different subconscious beliefs, the way that you see people as different, you treat people differently. You know, the more spiritual you become, the more you become attuned to this vibration, you start to have thoughts, like, you know, you don't want to judge people as much anymore. Maybe you want to help people a little more when they're
suffering. You want to be a little bit nicer to people because you've suffered, right, So you know, Okay, I've suffered, this person is suffering. It doesn't really feel good when I'm in a state of suffering when people aren't kind to me. Right, Mushrooms kind of force you to suffer. It's like a blast to the mind and you start having these I'm serious, like, I'm dead serious. You know, the way you say things is funny. They do they make you suffer, They force you to suffer,
they do. I'm telling you, I've had times run so wasn't that my experience? Mine was very nurturing. But I tend to I tend to be the person that that in the past old me would like if a stranger bumped into me in the street, I would apologize. So I think, you know, maybe that's what you needed suffering to learn. Well, yeah, I've had I've had plenty of suffering in my life. But when you
start, yeah, you start from more and more and more. That's when it gets to be a slippery slope because then you start digging really deep and it starts bringing up stuff that's really deep, and it's like kind of forced. I'm telling you, I've had some experiences where I'm sitting there for four
hours. Just thank god. I learned some meditative breathing technique to like, you know, like just six seconds and six seconds out, it'll be over soon, you know what I mean, Because you're face to face with things that's like, you know, uh, I don't want to talk about private you know, people dying that I've experienced that was very traumatic that I'm sitting there, like sitting with on mush things like that, you know, like it it can kind of force you to suffer a little bit, and exactly,
yeah, for a positive outcome, not just like to suffer. It's anytime I have quote unquote suffered and had kind of a bad experience or a bad trip, I definitely wouldn't call it a bad experience because overall the experience for me personally is always positive. I've tripped a little too hard a few times, but it's always a positive outcome for me. I always learned something absolutely Yeah that that that's my point. But yes, Magenta so DMT.
Yeah, so last summer I did DMT, and we can forget everything we just discussed about mushrooms now we are in a different field. DMT was so fucking insane. It's like my friends told me, They're like, it's the best roller coaster you'll ever ride that you can't get in the real world. Like it's there's there's no there's no physical experience that could simulate the sensation. So like you you know, you you you blast off or whatever. And
for me, it was like my my attachment to my body. I started to like lose vision, and then I realized I was in the saliva that was swallowing down my throat and I could and you feel very different when you take DMT, Like physically you feel very weird until you take the final one where you blast off, you know. So like I just remembered being inside of my saliva sliding all the way down my throat and I could acutely feel it until it got into my stomach, and then when it was swallowed,
I just disappeared and I was an avoid of blackness. But in the void, it's like imagine being in space, but there's no stars. It's just a giant black void that's as big as you can fathom or imagine. And in that void was a face that I was beholden to. It was the only thing that I could see or experience, and it was so far away and so massive, yet it was in my face invasive, like I was like, oh my god, like I can't get away from this. It sees me and it was a It was what I understand to be like the
divine feminine, like the goddess or the mother or whatever. But it was comprised of waving, non collective, non non connected, abstract lines of magenta light. It was, Oh my god, you just described the You just described my trip. That's that was the background that the trip was. It was like not one solid color. It was kind of a spectrum of colors that were themselves active. Yeah, yeah, like they were living. Yeah,
like it was the being. The being I was seeing was it was abstract and this like you know, you draw a face, all the lines are connected, Like I'm looking at your faces now, and there are archetypes of like circles and squares and ovals. You see these shapes that are very hard, they're very logical. They make sense. Everywhere you look around you shapes make sense. What do you do, DMT. None of it makes
sense. It's all abstract. It's so foreign to the brain. Your brain sort of melts and you can't really understand what's happening, and you're processing all this information simultaneously. There's multiple things happening. It took weeks for it all to come back to my memory. But the main thing was this massive face of the It was like it was like an impression of a face that was in flowing lines of magentle light. And then I got the incense that I
or I got the impression that I was to be trapped there forever. This is my life now and I just have to embrace it, and you know, goodbye to my previous life. And then it changed and I was inside of a construct made of light. I say construct because it's like imagine a house that kind of has like the idea of like a square structure, but it wasn't like walls, Like it wasn't like you're being in a house.
It's like everything around me was light, like you know, you know, if you go to like edit a photo, or you're on the computer you're doing Microsoft Paint something of that nature, and there's like a color wheel where the colors are connected and you could scroll the mouse. Everything around me was like that, but they were all flowing and morphing into one of each other,
you know. And then that face that was out in the distance in the void was a little bit of a smaller scale that I could fathom that it was inside of this construct of light, and it was kind of like intimate. It was kind of like it wasn't sexual, but it was like it was very It was very connected to me. It was very intimate. It was like showing me, you know what I mean. I felt connected to it, like we have a bond here. But it didn't feel like
impure or weird or anything like I don't know how to describe it. Like it was a very deep, emotional, intuitive connection. And this face was moving through the construct and it was just giving me impressions and feelings and all these downloads about what it was and what it was communicating to me. And I got the sense that it was the true form of the divine feminine that although is. You know, she appeared to my dad in the form of a beautiful blonde hair, blue eyed lady, and you know, you get
this idea. But what I saw was like it was fierce. It changed to be like a darker red, and then it appeared a little bit more angry and wrathful, like it could it could devour me or destroy me if it wanted to, but it's taken care of me. It's both right, Like the feminine is powerful. It can create, but if it wanted to, it could destroy, you know. It's it's just this powerful force, and I was very afraid of it in the sense that like, I can't
fuck would you? I can't do anything. That's how I felt like literally in DMT, I was like, I'm beholden to you, like yes, ma'am, yes, yes, I was. Boy, I was. I was like you know, you know, I was. I was. I don't even know where to go from there. I was, that's okay. Well, I wanted to ask Nick about, you know, speaking of kind of the writing that line between the you know, real warm fuzzies and the
not so warm fuzzies. You said something earlier about something not warm and fuzzy but in the spiritual realm, and that like growing up in church, we were always it was always reference right, the good, the bad, the evil, the holy, and we were always aware. And in my community it was you know, like we didn't have cell phones then, but if we had them and they didn't work, it would be like, oh,
that's the devil. He's trying to stop us, you know, like like it was always a part of our daily lives and in the so silly ways, like you know, if your technology didn't work, it was like Satan is working against us. But it was also there was some really like gnarly things that I can't explain. And so I know Brian has a couple of those. But Nick, you mentioned something someone to hear from you what happened. So I don't know that I've had I mean, I don't know I've
had any negative experiences like with the phenomenon per se. I mean, when I first learned about it, there was a lot of fear. There was like I was like very I'm kind of I've always been like a scared kid, Like to this day, I don't watch a lot of horror movies and stuff like that. Like I'll never forget the first night that Ryan and Jeremy told me about you know, they dropped it on me like a huge bomb.
Like Ryan's brother Jeremy was like, yeah, it's probably aliens outside right now because the dogs were barking, and I was like, oh wait what excuse me? And Ryan was like dude, shut up, shut up, don't don't don't say anything. Just just don't it's it's too early. Don't tell him about this. Our documentary had just come out to our first Oh that made it feel like even more real to me. So I was like, what, what's but I mean no, I never I never had any
experiences with the phenomenon that were bad. Necessarily. I've had some spooky sightings that didn't feel so good. Okay, actually, hang on, something's coming back to me a little bit. Well, a couple of things. Actually, now now you got my Now you got my brain jogged. They just weren't experiences with Ryan. So one time I was at a friend's house very late at night, and I saw a humanoid figure, like of a shadow on a wall. And this was like we had we had like a few
friends over. This is a my buddy, Oh Raven, he's been on the show. Shout out Raven. We were all over at Raven's house and there was like a few of us over there. So I assumed, like, oh, somebody's in the back room, that's their shadow. The shadow
like continued walking until I couldn't see it. So I walked back into that room, the only place that the shadow could have been coming from and then I look, nobody's in the room, and there's like I even opened the closet because I was like, you're not gonna get me, Like you're not about to get me right now. If there's somebody in this room, I'm gonna find out open the closet nobody in there. That was like super super eerie. And then another thing is since I was like ten or eleven,
it stopped a few years ago and is far less frequent now. But I used to have sleep paralysis like once a month. And when I was little, it was like really simple, basic, like bad dream stuff. But the older I got, it started feeling more and more real in the sense of it carries real, not consequence into my waking life. But it was like telling me messages about it is similar to like the psilocybin thing. It shows you things that you might need to address, even if you're not ready
to do that in a shocking exactly in an abstract and shocking way. It's like you you probably won't even immediately understand that. That's what I meant, Like it forces you to suffer. It's like it's not for a bad person. It's like some things you just you feel like you're not ready to see but you need to. Yeah. I feel like with psychedelics, you can't
sign up for what kind of experience you want to have. You have to sign up for I want an experience, sign your name on the dotted line, and that's the only bit of control that you have in the experience. It could be great, it could be a panic attack. Ultimately it'll probably benefit but similar with sleep paralysis, it was like for you, it was just terrifying to me. There was no there was no like lesson to be learned in my mind. There was no wisdom to be gleaned from this.
It was just like, oh, I'm being attacked by my own mind. You know. But did you coming from the context of the church and churches in your case that you were in, did you did you code it as this is evil or this is double or did you have a more secular perspective of it that it was a fabrication of your own imagination. That's a good question, I think, I think so. What I can say for sure is that the earliest experiences felt very malicious. They were they were like scary,
scary. There were sometimes I mean, I've had it probably over a hundred times in my life. There were some times where it was just like I'm frozen and I can't move, and it's like that's it, you know. But then there were other times where there was like voices in the room.
It was like, you know that. The scariest type that used to happen to me was like I would fall asleep, but there was no lapse in my vision, so I thought I was still awake, and yeah, very very very spooky, so like hearing like scary ghostly whispers in the corner. But then I would wake up from it and realize it was a dream kind of thing. So I have lucid dreamed a few times. But it's
it's really interesting with with like sleep paralysis. I even for a while was like trying to train how to lucid dream, you know, because you can there are things that you can do to increase your chances. But with sleep paralysis, it is I am completely at the mercy of whatever this is. So to answer your question, I don't think I ever felt like, oh, this is like biblical demons attacking me. Even as a little kid when I was like very in the church, it didn't even feel like that.
It just felt it. But it did feel like like malicious spirits. It was weird. It was like, I didn't feel like it was demons, but it felt like malicious spirits to me. I think I think that's the best way I can answer that. I think that makes sense. It does because I've experienced it one or two times. I've has Sley paralysis like one or two times in my life, and each time it did feel like some
sort of malicious thing. Yeah, oh there was I mean Polder guys though, Ryan, right, like you had Polder that's when I was awake. But I think that's really interesting because you know, in your dad's book he does talk about some of the negative phenomenon experience paranormal experiences that he's experienced on the property. But well, let's clarify that. Let's clarify that the experience is that we had weren't negative. It was the interpretation of the people around
us that was negative. You know, like the phenomenon, the Poultergeist activity in the house was viewed as negative by my mother, who was telling us it was scary. You know, don't talk about this, but these entities never harmed us or did anything to us that was malicious. I mean it like, I wouldn't say that we ever had a negative experience. It was the people around us telling us it was negative, telling us it was demonic
or were crazy or whatever. But isn't by definition the word poltergeist or like the category of poultergeist activity mean that it's malicious. I'm not. I don't know, things that like cabins get opened and closed. I mean, yeah, like, I mean, the way I think about it is just like things bumping around in the house, that there's some sort of higher entity there jiggling stuff around, messing with us. I mean, it's not like some malicious spirit was like tormenting us. I mean it was like, you know,
we we definitely were like some people called it a portal. I think it's deeper than that. I think it was just these beings messing with us. As people had nothing to do with the property. But we were a location where there was an extreme, shocking and unfathomable volume of activity that was
was instigated by entities from another dimension. I mean things like light bulbs being unscrewed inside the casing, you know, the lights on in the back porch and then the lights off and then I walk outside and the light bulbs unscrewed. I mean, it was things like that. That's what I say is poltergeist activity. It wasn't like stuff tormenting us. You know, it wasn't like that. If poulter Geist is the wrong word, then then it's the
wrong word, you know. It's yeah, I don't know. That was just you know, because you know, run to the light Caroland, like, that's that's my idea of poulter Geist. I saw that one. I'm telling you, I'm scared. Yeah, that's a movie. That's a movie that's fridly as negative, but you know, living the reality of it. Actually, every time these every time, these supernatural experiences happen, and I
can't get enough of it. And I've only actually had one sighting of any form of entity that I felt was negative, and it was attached to an individual who was in a very dark and depraved vibration. And it was like, I didn't get the sense that I was having this experience, you know, as the phenomenon or whatever. I got the sense that I was in
a state at that time. I do believe that we can slip into higher spiritual states unconsciously and I think I was at a time where maybe I was a little more sensitive, and I did see a shadow being attached to an individual one time and I was like freaked out. But other than that, no, I've had thousands of times, thousands of bizarre supernatural experience. I
mean you can again, you can ask Nick and Alex. They've combined, they've seen beyond one hundred, one hundred and fifty orbs with us, not to you know, the sheer number of years that we've gone through seeing that many, so many nights. I mean it's been thousands. And there was that one time that I just told you about that I was gared. I mean, these entities have never invoked a feeling of fear in me. I mean Nick was at my dad's house this summer with his whole family. We
did a whole episode about this. We had this insane group sighting and there were orbs two feet away from Nick, all around him, and he was walking towards them, trying to get closer because he was so he wasn't scared. You know that he played some sick guitar and so they were like his
autograph, which if you had asked me, like prior to that. Like, if I would be afraid of that, if I would be afraid if that happened to me, I would say, yeah, I'd absolutely I'd be terrified if that happened to me. But it happened, and I was I didn't think twice. I just walked towards it. You just want to get closer. You have a six hours, just I want more. And I've never I mean, I've never seen anything like that. That just happened six months ago, not even probably. I saw an entity in my room.
It physically touched me, and I wasn't afraid of it. I wish it didn't leave. I had expand on that. Please sure, sure, sure, I mean wherever you want to go, Like I just I want to elaborate out there. You know, it's one thing we're talking here, But my concern always in the back of my mind is the listener out there.
I never want to leave an image of fear in their mind. These entities are very benevolent, you know, and and and they've never done anything to harm any of us or scare us or Okay, well, the first time they appeared, it scared the ship out of my dad and my brother. But how could you play the right the first time. It was that their intention. I doubt it, you know, but I would like to think they least get a little kick out of it, you know what I mean.
I think I think I was listening to one interview that you did about like anything that's in Maybe maybe it was you, but it was like anything that's intelligent also has a sense of humor. So some at some level they've got to, you know, have a you know, a happy hour, like a phenomenon happy hour where they get go to them on beer or bar and they they round up and they're like, all right, did anyone shot their pants today? Bob's got a story. Check it out, Bob,
Bob, It's good, it's good. Yeah. The entities that I know have healed people of cancers and other diseases, you know what I mean. They've they've they've performed miracles that we've only ever read about in ancient texts. But so you don't feel like there's any negative or dark forces out there at all. They all benevolent. I'm not saying that there are dark forces, but you know, it's up to you if you want to attract that. What I am saying is that The entities that I have experienced are not dark
forces. They are benevolent. You know. I have experienced a particular group of entities that I mean have occurred over seventeen years. You know, the same orbs and all this stuff is appearing, and you know, are there other beings out there? Sure? It's just like you go in the ocean, there's whales, there's sharks, there's fish. You know, you go on the farm, there's chickens, there's pigs, there's there's every biome you go to. There's there's a diverse group of existence, you know what I
mean. There's light and there's dark. There has to be. Yeah, I mean, we actually had one of our friends, Bobby, I mean he's been on the show a couple of times, and he tells, I mean one of the most bone too, now two of the most Both of his episodes were horrific, very dark sports with witchcraft and things like that. Like, yeah, that that stuff is real. It's out there, for sure. It's not experiencing that. I haven't experienced that. I've met other
people who experience it. And oh and you know what they worship the fucking devil and things like that. You know, what I mean, Oh, well, you know you're you're, you're you're addicted to meth. You know, you're you're doing all this dark ship. Yeah, no, no, wonder Sherlock that you're having dark experiences. It's well, I think the fear, Yeah, I think the fear for people that come from a background like like I do, is the the belief that you can get a hitchhiker,
which, if you know, for people don't know what that means. It means like you you go to a haunted place, the haunted thing hitchhikes and follows you home, Or that you open yourself up and you invite accidentally negative things in or third that you open the veil between the living and the dead and you don't close it again and bad things happen. And so there's this hesitation among people who have a spiritual background of any sort that being unskilled in
this area and also dabbling can have serious side effects. And I think that's that's the concern, is like, oh, I don't want to fuck with you know what I don't know about I totally get that, you know, but like here's my perspective, right, I think we can all agree that there is wisdom in the Bible. There's very good spiritual wisdom that I think much of it is true, you know, in the New Testament stuff.
Anytime Jesus speaks about some sort of spiritual knowledge or wisdom, I believe he's just as masterful as a sage as any of the other masters of you know, these these wisdom traditions. And my point is we can be not strict Christians and still take from what he said. And if I remember correctly, he said that we have dominion over spirits, right, and that we could test these spirits in their nature. And it's like, here's the thing.
There have been so many people in the last seventeen years that they spam comment on you know, my YouTube or dad's thing. Satan could appear as an angel of light. Satan could appear as an angel of light. Okay, well, okay, so we're talking to a Christian here, So let's just get down and like Christian semantics, you're telling me that we can go out and we can pray to God and Satan can overcome and appear, right,
we can. We can pray to God, we can pray to Jesus, and God is so weak and powerless that the devil or some malicious spirit can invade and overcome. Like, first of all, that doesn't sound right.
You know, if you're gonna if you're gonna attack what we're actually experiencing outside of your not you, but you know a madary person who said this, outside of your limited little world of just commenting negative shit on the internet, you're going to go and try to like attack somebody with real experiences over your belief. Let's go revisit your belief. It says we have dominion over spirits,
right, Okay. It also says that when we pray to God, that God is not a god of confusion, and that God will appear and will you know, I don't know the scripture word for word, but my whole point is like, how can you think that we're the only people in the world that we go to and pray to God and we see these lights and have these crazy experiences, and we're literally telling you and documenting all this
crazy shit and going on TV and showing that it's really happening. And we have witnesses coming out saying, you know that they have been healed of this kind of thing, and we're telling their story, writing about it in the book, But like the devil is just tricking all of us and is overriding, and you know, we're out there praying to God, but it's the devil that's just so stupid. It's so ignorant to think that, you know, Like, here's as simple as it is. We go outside, we
say God, please, you know, show me a sign. How how can we like, how can we how can we fuck that up? How can we invite something evil there? How can we invite something dark there? You know, but alternatively, alternatively, to really hammer home your point, I was in Tampa last week and visited my good friend Jordan, who has been on our show. Shout out Jordan Crowder. He's a very phenomenal human being. He has a really good TikTok channel called Alive and Kicking, and
like I said, he's just been on our show. I was talking with him and his wife was telling me, I really hope that they're okay with me sharing this. But his wife was telling me she had a tarot reading in what's the town The town of Louisiana. I'm blanking the main one, New Orleans. Yes, she had a tarot reading in New Orleans and she felt sick and nauseous and like she had to puke and they had to go home, and she had the sense that there was an evil spirit trying to
attach to her from the energy of the place. So yes, we can, like we can think that we're savvy and smart and try to like engage in these strange, you know, mystical practices, and if we don't know what we're doing and we're not adept, I think that negative, nasty things
can attach to us. But you have to really fuck it up to walk outside or you know, stay inside, doesn't matter, and pray to God, pray, pray in your mind, imagine the highest, most loving, pure vibration of light in your mind and address that and something negative a peer, I've never heard of something like that happening. Yeah, well, I mean it's it's part of it's part of the inner dialogue of people that come from communities like we come from. And your dad, it's something really amazing
to say about it. When I interviewed him, his response was that that sort of distrust of our own prayer process is part of the structural control that keeps us tethered to, you know, the organizations that desire to you know, direct your lives and keep us giving money and and those sorts of things. And I thought that that was that was really insightful. And but you're
right. I have heard you say and your dad say about you know, when y'all are going out in the backyard basically and just sort of you know, not do a vote, like hey, we're here now, you're just sort of like we're here, yeah, hey, yeah, could you give us a sign? Thank you God. I wanted to ask I wanted to ask you all about because of the correlation between prayer or meditation and the orbs.
What is your hot take on Stephen Greer. Well, let's just say I like to that's that's tricky because it's like, you know, what I really feel might be private. But let's say this. I don't buy it. I just you know, it just doesn't sit right with me. You know, somebody charging five thousand dollars a pop to shine lasers up at the sky and uh sort of trademark this specific meditation, but there's really not like
much presented evidence that that you know, it's it's it's going on. It's like this, it's it's like, uh, it's like an attraction it's turning into an attraction. Like you got to do this specific protocol. And you know, if you come to my retreat for five thousand dollars, you can stay with me for a few nights and we'll go outside and we'll get into a group meditation and we'll do the protocol and we'll shine light to the sky, you know, like we just walk outside and we just pray and even
write in the book. Like you can do it too, Go try it, you know, do it seriously. I was you go ahead. I was just saying when I talked to you on the phone, Meredith, what did I say? I was like, Oh, I'll be in Florida in a few months. Yeah, where do you have Let's go SkyWatch together. I didn't ask you to bring your check book or anything like that. You know, like it should be free. This God, God is free to all that. You know. Stephen Graham might not say it's God. It
might say it's being so it's an alien or whatever. But I mean, at the end of the day, you know, the UFO subject opens the Pandora's box. What's out there, what's out there is God? What's behind all of it is God? Right, It's like Okham's razor. Let's cut through the shit. Let's get to the heart of what it really is. It's God, all of it everything. Someday people don't understand that what we are. We gonna say it. Oh, I'm just gonna say that.
I've seen it so many times. I've been a part of it so many times. There's no ritual, there's no I mean, obviously I believe no, I believe that meditation could in some cases probably help, but that's never once happened with Ryan's dad and the you know, I've been with ten fifteen people all looking at one time. Everybody's just chit chatting. We're literally just outside just like yo, new Zelda game about to come out. Bro, oh my god, yeah, Jeremy. Jeremy's over here ordering a gaming chair
on his phone. And then Ryan's dad is like, everybody quit, quit the chit chat and look up. And we look up and it's like a light show for an hour of completely inexplicable majestic sights. That there's these lights just doing these things that you know, you just you don't see that anywhere, and there's no there's no smoking mirrors method, there's no method there's no ritual, there's no nothing. It's just go outside, believe it's gonna happen,
ask for it. There it is. Isn't it so funny how we are such ritual seeking things though we like it's almost like at first it's this you know, existential experience, and then it becomes like how can I how can I formula it? How can I eat it? How can I seek it out? Make it a checklist and do it on Friday night? Yeah?
I feel like that's probably attachment to an expectation or like desiring that result, Like, yeah, results driven, That's what I was saying, because as humans, like we want to hit the light switch and the light come on, Like you know what I'm saying. We want to be able to know exactly what we need to do to have something happen every time. And it's like that's how Madder might work, but like, our spirits don't work that way. It's far more complex than that. But I totally get it,
like how do I write down the steps? What are the exact instructions? Like I would be that kind of person if I didn't know that it
doesn't work that way for sure. It's just like you know, to go back to your question about the greer thing, It's like I have seen so many things in my life, like I just wish people could just like see through my eyes for a moment and and and see all these lights, and like the impact that that has on the mind and your perspective and and and how you see things, and you know, how how you view this And like one thing that my dad and I and my family we we really don't
like when people have the notion or the attitude that they could do some sort of ritual protocol to like some of these beings like fucking dogs, to just like obey their command. It's just not how it works. I'm sure that it works sometimes where they might like, you know, they might, oh, well, there's there's a there's a light. It's not like that these beings have free will. As a matter of fact, they created us,
and they are from a higher perspective than we are. You know. It's like you draw on a piece of paper, this two dimensional that entity in the second dimension, if it if it existed in its own plane in some limited form, and you take a pencil and you draw a hat on it, right, you draw a little on that little character, well, that little two dimensional character poof just had this godlike miraculous encounter where they look up and there's a hat on their freaking head. Oh my god, some higher
dimensional form just manipulated my reality and there's a hat on my head. And now we're here in the third dimension and we're having these experiences with beings from a higher perspective. They are there's no difference between what they are capable of and magic. They can defy the very laws of reality. There is no
physical obstacle to them. They told my dad in the initial encounter that they could sometimes they'll just take your soul from your body, leave your body on the couch at night, so you know, your wife thinks you're home asleep, and we're gonna take you on a journey and put your soul right back in your body. They said, we can pop out of your light bulb. We can do whatever we want to do. We can vibrate through the the molecules in your wall, we can get beneath the atoms, and we
can go through anything. There's nothing we can't do. They can't not do anything. They are higher beings. If they wanted to kill me, if they wanted to kill my family or anyone around us. They could have, they didn't. They've They've done very good, very amazing, wonderful things throughout my life that I've seen. And here we are now we're making a show just to tell all about it and try to, you know, to spread
what they're all about. But it's crazy to describe them about, like all the things that they could do this, and they could do that, and they could flip over atoms. What I'm hearing you say is their creative and I see creativity and that I see play, and that that's why I'm sure they have a sense of humor, like they gotta, you know, like because the highest I mean on earth anyway, that the things that are of
the highest intelligence they prioritize play. And so I think it's I don't know, it's kind of cool to think about, to think about play being so important that even these beings make it at the top of their list. And we're over here like stress and about stuff. We're in a realm of creativity. That's all there really is. Like creativity is God, It's all. It's all in the same Vin diagram. Like imagine this for a second,
Like yes, scientifically, our eyeballs are perceiving everything around us. Yeah, you can look at it that way if you want to, But you can also look at it as like the portals in your head are drawing infinitely beautiful, immaculate, incredible, Like you can only experience your reality through your own eyes, no one else, even somebody sitting in the same spot as you. It's not going to be exactly the same. Life is just one big creative act. I think this realm that we're in is just a creative act
infinitely. And yeah, I think pure light beings that are the pure, unfiltered essence of this realm, and the realms beyond are like that's that's gonna be all they care about, because that's all there really is. I think it's just creativity and then a bunch of distractions, like matter is just a
distraction. We talk about this a lot on our show, Like, you know, if you look at pop culture and you look at it through the lens of like maybe there's some wisdom to be gleaned, because you know, surely people at the top of the humanity putting out the majority of you know, pop culture, they have to be in on some sort of knowledge. I mean, if you believe in that sort of concept, right, that there are secret societies that you know, the top members of society are involved
in. Just just hypothetically. We see this trend in a lot of movies, a lot of shows, a lot of art and media in general of this sage like figure who is really light, really like like Yoda for example, this jolly little green dude who you know, Luke Skywalker goes to train with this ancient master and he finds him in the forest and he's just kind of like laughing at him and just giggling, and he's really silly, and you know, like that's kind of what I think, Like the higher you
go into wisdom, I think, the more like joyful and childlike and care free and silly. Right. But like when I was in Mexico a few months ago, I happened to go to this city where it's like the heartland of this really ancient five thousand plus year old shamanic Payote tribe that still exists today. They're one of the only ones that exists today. After you know, Mexico was colonized or whatever, a lot of those ancient traditions were wiped out, but this one still exists today. So I was like, dang,
this is awesome. Got home and watched a documentary on him, and you could see like some of their most enlightened members of this shamanic tribe. Who are the ones, like the elders of the village, Like they're just like, you know, decrepit eighty ninety year old men, and they're just like playing with all the kids, and they're laughing and they're smiling, and they're joyful and silly, and they're they're they're the ones who are supposed to
be the master of this stuff. You think they'd be serious like in the church, right, But no, I like, yeah, And I don't think the phenomenon is any different. I think like the higher you go into the scale of like you're you're you're you're becoming enlightened, right, keyword being light in the middle of that word, the more enlightened you become, I
think, the more joyful and care free and you know, humorous. I'll tell you what one night, the first major insane high strangeness encounter that I had not to mention, you know, seeing orbs in the sky for five years of my family, but like a like a close entity encounter. They moved at me like cows and listen, I can confirm there are no cow farms anywhere. Mire Ryan's out miles and miles away. Remember the lady appeared as a bull to my dad first, So she was like, She's like,
do you think he'll get it? Guys? Do you think I didn't get it? For five years? My mind is My mind was melted, like like it might my brain moved out of my ears. And my dad had to like tell me. He was like, dude, like that's your you know. I was sitting there telling my begging him. I'm eighteen years old at this point, five years in. Chris Junior doesn't want anything to
do with this stuff, you know, which nobody blames him for. But he was at this point where he was running away from it, didn't want to talk about it. And I'm outside, me and my dad are skywatching at night in the summer, and I'm like, Dad, I I don't understand, like why he got to be there that night and he doesn't want anything to do with it. Here I am walking outside every night, going out, you know, in the backyard and the dark, trying to see
them, trying to see these entities. Why won't they come to me, Why won't they approach me? I don't understand. Why did he have this experience? It doesn't make sense. It's not fair to me. And Dad's like, you gotta like, you gotta be more humble, Like you have to understand, son, these are not aliens. These are magical beings. They're not up there spinning around in a ship spying on you with some telescope
and some you know, listening antenna. They're knowing your thoughts and passed in the present in the future, and they know exactly what you need when you need it. And God's time works differently than our time. He was like it' Psycha says in the Bible, a day in God's times a thousand years in our lifetime. And you just have to be patient and understand that when you're ready, you'll have an experience. But first you have to understand what
it is. And he's telling me this stuff. He's like, they're magical, they're spiritual, they're divine, and I'm like, Dad, I just I don't understand that, Like everyone's telling me that's not so. I don't understand that. Then they started moving at me like cows and they were all around me. There's just cows moving all around me. There's no cows in miles and miles. My dad got up the next day and drove around and looked for all that. There's no cow farms five ten miles away, you
know. And I had four or five cows in my backyard. I didn't see them, but I heard four or five cows mooing at me and my dad and we're just standing there, like overwhelmed by the sound of these cows. And my Dad's like, you got what you asked for. That's so funny. It took five years to accept that. So do y'all believe that, like the traditional i'll say, alien figures, the traditional space ship excitings, that that is real and that's something separate than what y'all are experiencing.
I believe that, like we have two phenomenon going on there. I do think that they have some kind of secret government stuff that they might be flying around in some highly populated areas. I don't know that for sure, but I kind of do tend to think that that a lot of these the world governments have advanced crafts. Yeah, okay, yeah, stuff like that.
But I also think that, like people do see things that appear to take that form, because sometimes entity experience are a projection of your consciousness and how you interpret things and how you understand things. It's like a reflection of like for example, when people were reporting UFOs in the eighteen hundreds, they were like massive flying warships and blimps, you know, and over time it changed. Then around the nineteen thirties or forties, we start popping up with reports
of flying boomer. Then in the forties they tell this story to the mass consciousness, you know, that they put out all this shit about Roswell and these flying saucers or you know, in the fifties, the culture is, you know, they come from above and war of the world, and we have all this imagery of flying saucers being beaten into our souls, you know, and it's like there comes a certain point where when the collective sees something
and understands something this way, it's gonna manifest in a certain way to match that form. Sometimes, like I think I think that, like I think that consciousness is reflexive, right, I don't think that that that you know, there's actual physical, alien biological abductions happening. I do think that people have seen things that appear to be like saucers. I've seen things that looked similar to that. What about you, Dick, Yeah, I think I
think I agree. I'm I'm the type of person that doesn't like to like close the book on anything. So who knows, you know. I think there's billions and billions and billions of star systems and planets and who knows what's
going out going on out there beyond our reality here. But I have read things like Ryan's talking about, where it's a spiritual encounter that will start off manifested as like a flying saucer, and then it'll turn into a ball of light, and then it'll come down and then it'll turn into a humanoid figure something something like that. So I definitely believe that that happens. And as far as, like the actual Green booker guys on other planets and stuff,
maybe maybe I don't know. I don't see why not. Maybe I don't close the book on nothing these days. I used to, but I think mushrooms took that out of me. All I know is love that the lady told my dad in twenty twelve when they first met. She said that there's a dark force at the top of humanity scripting out the Book of Revelations to try and force a cataclysm to bring us into this negative timeline where you know, the biblical prophecies are true because we manifest them through fear the masses.
They're trying to constantly barrage the psyche of the masses. It's like social engineering, you know. They want us to believe a certain outcome so much that we play into it and that we manifest it to be true. She said that this was happening with a great deception. There's going to be a great deception, this push that there is this evil alien narrative that there is no God, there is no spirit. The goal is to completely break us down
and to rip away our spiritual belief in our connection to that world. That's the goal. She said that the deception would be to portray the phenomenon in a negative light, completely separate from you know, spirituality and from God. And guess what, you go look at all the mainstream alien shit and it's you come back to me and you know, like you'll be like, dang, you know, it's kind of looking like the shoe fits, you know, what I mean. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, so
our aliens out there, I don't know, I don't care. You know, I haven't experienced aliens. I've experienced beings that come from a different place, a different realm, a different demand. They told my dad it was like, they didn't call it the spirit world. They called it the eternal world. That it's where we go when we die. They said that, you know, we all become as them and we we go into orbs and we go back to the eternal world. It's it's the grand journey of the
soul. It's immortal, the soul. This is what they said. They said, the soul is a mortal It never dies, and it goes through on its on its journey and goes back to the eternal world. You see your ancestors and your family and your loved ones and all that, and you you become reunited with them, and you know, maybe you come back.
I don't know that that's depends on the development of your soul. But yeah, that's that's what I that's what I care about, you know, I care about what's right in front of me, what I've what I've been experiencing. Yeah, well, hopefully we all have a very soulful future that isn't just the nuts and bolts and the facts, and it's joy and play and mushrooms, joy play and mushrooms. In the title of the episode, joy
play and Mushrooms, that is, well, this has been great. You guys, do you want to tell people where they can find your your show and your socials and all that stuff, because I really think that my listeners would love to continue to engage with what you have gone on. Sure, yeah, blodsosetso dot com. That's our website. You can pretty much find
everything there through link trees and all that. Otherwise it's just blods so sets so on all podcast apps and YouTube and we have a pretty kick ass Patreon. But maybe get your toes wet in the show first before you start looking at that kind of stuff. And yeah, I mean, we have a heavy metal band, Twice Born, and I think the same goes for our audience. I think that they will absolutely love you and your show, So please do the same for our audience. Give them all the links and the
socials. And I'm just gonna go ahead and say, everybody out there listening on our side, jump over to her side and listen. She please do, please do support. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm most active on Instagram at Meredith for Real and my show is meredth for Real The Curious Introvert and it's a yellow logo, and yeah, it's weekly every Monday. All the topics are completely different week two weeks. It is very ady D
friendly, so you can kind of jump around. And I do something kind of fun where if you, you know, kind of like YouTube gives you recommendations off since you watched this video, you might like that video. I kind of do that for my listeners, so it helps you kind of navigate the variet of topics because for each episode at the very beginning and the very end, and written in the episode description says, if you like this episode, you will also like episode number blah blah blah. So it can become
a fun way to binge the content. Yeah. Wow, that idea. I have to say for our listeners, show show some support. We we we have a really a good group of people that listen to the show, and just be sure to show her support. Her vibe is amazing and you're
just a really cool person, a really kind person. Thank you for collabbing with us, and you know, hopefully, hopefully our listeners will see value in each other, and you know, we'll just have like a big, a big, big a big cousin smoke sash, a big walking, so many strange little phrases from this conversation that I will share eternally. Thank you, guys, I have I have to tell you real quick. I know, I know you got to go Marridis that I do want to say.
Of all the hundreds of episodes that we've done, this was the first time that I looked up and I was like, damn, it's been two hours. I was going to say, this is the fastest that two hours has ever passed. It was definitely the fastest, genuinely, and that says something. Thank you, thank you very much. I really I enjoyed it and
I appreciate the love. And I know that my listeners will follow their curiosity ride on over to what you guys got going on, because it's really good and if there are anything like me, they will have a page of notes of words and phrases and historical references that will be enjoyable rabbit trails afterwards. Yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome. I think our listeners are going to do the exact same with your show. I love the variety of topics, so well, can we sign off our way? We have a ritual?
Oh okay, yeah, it's very esoteric and spooky. We just say bye guys at the camera, all right bye. God. Weird things happen in the backyard Blodso house and said oct it was so weird coming closer to us. Myer say his straight up like smiring on the inside of it. No one knows, mad, Wow, it's come for I ever did a solid driver. Ain't happy? Can be having ch