Weird things happened in the backyards. Weird, weird, weird. Wow. Welcome to bless this episode and even though he was on with us last week, we have my cousin Lee today. This is gonna be open ended. Yeah, conversational approach with Lee and and and sharing some more candid, you know, moments between us. Lee Smith, welcome. Yeah, I'm very happy to be here. I've been a long time listener. Yeah, you had like that, you've been You've been really super supportive since day one.
That's very kind of you. Let's listened to every episode. Yeah, I'm the only one I hadn't listened to. And I told Ryan this a little while ago. I didn't listen to Isaac Weisop two Okay, and it was because I hadn't watched Twin Peaks. Oh yeah, but either and then I spoil it. Then I listened to it and it was good, So I am caught up. Okay. Actually, though, did y'all do an episode on like a full episode on the don't the Bagel? What's the big?
Oh? Everything everywhere all at once? That's a full episode? Okay. I've talked about it, Okay, then I have because I felt like I skipped that episode, but it didn't exist. Skipped it because it didn't exist. Yeah, so I have I'm caught up and all, Yeah, I'm the best episode to skip. Yeah, yeah, that's true, is the one that doesn't exist. So true, Lee's hurt every episode we've we've intended to get him on the show when the time is right, and this summer
just it just worked out. And also, like, not only have you listened to every episode, but we grew up together and you know, since we've been babies, I mean our birthdays were even ten days apart, and and you know, like our moms or sisters, so like we've we've just naturally been a part of each other's you know, lives the whole time.
Yeah. And Lee was around when a lot of this stuff was coming out, and I think that, like you have an interesting perspective on what that was like in the family when the two thousand and eight documentary came out. Yeah, so I did get a Fayetteville incident, shure, the lime green one with the UFO. I had one cool we watched The Night of the Whole Family, and I didn't I just didn't understand straight up, like because you were how I would have been eleven, Yeah, twelve, Yeah,
because I was fifteen. You said it aired in two thousand and eight. Yeah you should, I would have been twelve. Yeah. Yeah, our birthday is the same month. So if I was fifteen, you were twelve. Yeah, so I did. I watched it. I just was already I was still Christian in that way. I was much more adhering, and it was very confusing. Well, you just said something that was truly a revelation to me that I had no knowledge of. You just said that that
night, your whole family watched it. We watched it. All all of us were there that Yeah, we watched. I remember standing up. You know, I'm just driving a house that doesn't even exist anymore. But we I was, you know, standing up, and then the family was over on the right and all that we sat and all watched it, and I it seemed I don't remember that super well. I remember the shirts though. So y'all were all at the big party thing, the big gathering. Now
we did it at our own house. No, I'm just we had all separately watched. Ye you never knew that. Nobody ever came up and was like, yeah, I love the show. I get this a good point. Yeah, it was more like, don't talk about it. Yeah you know, yeah, I mean I watched it so I as a kid, I'll, i'll, they'll do a little backstory to to lead up to that. I don't know if you knew this, probably not. I was huge.
I was absolutely obsessed with ghosts and UFOs. Like I would go to the school library in elementary school and check out ghost books, real ghost stories and like that's you know. I had made a joke about the Abraham Lincoln of the boots thing, but everyone knows it, and that was one of them. You didn't know that what? No? What? The White House is haunted? No? Yeah, okay, but y'all don't know. You just casually we made a break for a second and hear that. Yeah I'm
interested. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's super simple. I mean, there's a lot of different presidents. I don't I guess it's weird that so there's a lot of presidents who would report seeing Abraham Lincoln strapping up his boots in a bed in one of the rooms in the White House and he would roam around it. There's other ghosts I can't remember who I can't believe you didn't know that though. Yeah, it's one of the most famous ghosts in the like I want to read it's super fascinating. Did they have books,
you read books about it? Yeah, but they were kid books. But they were you know, it was like real image of a castle and then the things that would go on in the castle and the bumps and all that. It was like a true stories book. Yeah, yeah, but it was it was nonfiction, you know, and it metaphysical nonfiction. And yeah, the fact that you were interested in that as a kid was yeah, you were. So I was already boost exactly. And then UFO is the
same thing. I can see it. There's a lot of UFO photos that are the same thing for me, where I like, there's the image of the ghostwoman walking down the stairs and it's just like this weird form. It looks messed up like it's it's almost like just a dress that's on fire. It looks rad it's cool. Like, so I was always really big in the ghost books. And then UFOs the same life with the weird cloud that's got the buldest shape. I don't think you've probably seen it totally. Some
of the most quintessential images for UFOs and ghosts. That's what I was really into. So and then like I was always very afraid too, so like I would read these books and then get really scared, like all the time. I would do it all the time, like kids, and we would hear ourselves with staplers. Yeah, just no. Well, when you have three, you know, three boys in the same house, it's like like who can do the dumber thing? You know, it's like competing with each
other. Who gets that's pretty what I can jump off the the bike, you know, it's always going harder and harder the ram thing. I'm on board with them. But I never stapled myself. I mean it's like I never you know, you purpose, You're like, I wonder how bad this would hurt? Stab yourself in the arm of the knife. No, neverne that, never like that. It was unintentional. But I definitely pierced being like the fat of my yeah, all the way through. Yeah, I
did that one time too. I was I was wondering, doodle, So I got a little pocket knife. They get the Blue Ridge Parkway and I was stabbing into it and it went, it slipped and just pierced my hands. One of my hands. I definitely stabbed a part of my thumb. I don't remember, but on purpose. No, no, I've never stabbed myself. A stabler. You know when you're a kid and you would like take like a sewing needle and you would like, oh, you could put it on. Yeah yeah, yeah, like stuff like that. Yeah yeah,
I mean hurt and you're like, it's funny. That's a universal experience. Everyone did that. It's wild. I would do it in class. I wouldn't even pay attention. I would just get like a safety pin and would just do it and be like and then like the finger floating a hot dog thing. Yeah, yeah, that's People always would say that's the like, that's where the blind spot is. It's not true. You know you have a blind spot. Yeah, I mean do you know how you can
find it? Everyone can do it. So you close one eye, right, do it? I'm serious, Everyone close one eye, put your thumb out all the way arms length, stare at it center, keep your eye on that point right, and then drag your thumb to the right. If it's your right, I do it that way and your thumb will disappear. Swear huh wait, huh, you're doing it. Right, you're doing it wrong. Oh you gotta do use your left hand with your left eye.
What do you focus on the center point where your thumb is and then keep it focused on that point and then drag it thumb right and it disappears whoa later. Yeah, but that's the blind spot. That's the little point you're right now that doesn't gather information, but your brain blurs it to hide it. Oh my god, what the hell you blew my mind disappear as a Teddy classic? What the hell? Yeah? You know, you know what, it's really interesting to know that you were like into phenomenon a Jason oh
yangs. Yeah, I was so into it. I question, Yeah, what were you more afraid of ghosts? Really? But now I'm like, please let me see a ghosts. I want to see it. Take me to a haunted house, Like ghosts are just inherently scarier, Like yeah, by nature, well it's uncanny, like it's a dead person and by your reckoning, you know, like that's someone who's not alive, they're at all, Yeah, at least you know, in the in that idea. Yeah.
So yeah, I've always been super fascinated with ghosts and stuff like that. I love cryptids. You know, I've always loved like Bigfoot. You know, like you've always liked Bigfoot. Do you have a fave cryptid? Man? Come on, there's a festival and Point Pleasant. I want to go through this. There's a festival. They do it every year annually and Point Pleasant. For me, that dude, that's pretty cool. So what
was the vibe? Like, I mean you don't have to like point out anybody in specific, but like, yeah, yeah, what was the vibe like when all the like initial stuff started happening. It's mean, it's how you describe it pretty much. There's a lot of don't talk about it. It's not it's either not true or it's not saying yeah, or you know, drugs and drinking, like drinking, you know. And then seven other people I don't four there were five total. Five yeah, five other people.
Yeah. So it's always been that way where it's never like I've never been encouraged to ask questions about it. Because did you ever ask questions about it? No? I didn't not until if I'm being honest, I mean I didn't really ask me, but like to other people, no, I mean I would say that, like I've never been keen on asking questions because you know how the response was, yeah, I guess, yeah, but I don't mean that negatively. That's just kind of like you can have the
most perfect parents and you still really don't. Well, there's a dynamic when you're children. Yeah, you know, sometimes we forget about this as adults, but it really was like twenty years ago. When you're a kid, it's kind of like I don't want my mom and dad to know exact you know what I mean. It's like the kid I want to get in trouble. I can sure, I can't assure you. I didn't want my parents knowing. I was reading about ghosts and UFOs really yeah, absolutely not.
I mean I got saved at seven, and I was doing ghosts things at like five and six, like as soon as I could pretty much. Maybe not five, that seems pretty early. I don't imagine I was going through a library. Yeah, yeah, it would have been second or third grade early I was thinking about it. Yeah, Like, but I've always had a huge fascination with ghosts. I've always thought they were super cool. I mean, I like ghost stories like something like you know, you saw VHS.
You don't like it very much. But my favorite one is also Saw that like ten years ago. Yeah, I'd probably like it. It hasn't aged as well. What are we talking about. It's a movie called Lee Shares the Fascination with horror films. Yeah yeah, I'm just like as insane as Ryan and it's about horror movie. I'm gonna make a joke, but I won't. You have some of the same faves. What's the other thing of Hereditary? D easy clap? Void? You recommend? The Void is
incredible? That one and my good friend Brandon I love him to death. Yoh out, Brandon love him. I'm I'm like pretty spooked by I know, scary stuff. So okay the Void? Where is that on the spectrum of spookiness? It's it's weird, It's it's intense. It is intense. I because I would sorry, how dare you touch my toes? I'll do it again. So like the Void, horror movies are weird because like Hereditary is scary. It actually it's scary. It's actually scary. I like as
above, so below that's pretty scary. I would say it's on the spectrum. Yeah you know what I mean, Like it's it's not like terrifying to me. But it's like it's scary to an entry level, Like I could see you know, it's scary, but the void the thing color out of space. I saw that you could handle the void. I I you know better what movies I've seen and what from Nick's perspective, Okay, the void
would be. It's it's it's a pretty it's a pretty horrific film. What dude, you're desensitized, Lee. Okay, you're wearing shirts about the binding of like you know they're like the love my little weird little boys who like go into hell and like fight these derangements. Well they only go into Shiel. Well I think at my point, Yeah, you're you're desensitized to horror
films. Yeah, Nick, Like, dude, remember the void is like it's terrific, putrid dismemberment of these cosmic creatures coming through from the void. And it's it's a pretty intensive. It's funny because my like, my aversion to horror is very specific. Is it jump scares? Yes, there's no jumps. I can't say that. There's definitely some. It's the jump scare and the tension building up to the jump scarre hereditary. It makes me literally
like going to panic heredit. Terry doesn't ever break that tension. That's why it works so well. It never breaks the tension. It never once breaks the tension ever. Yeah, I can't do that. But like, you know, I love like the Witch. Witch is awesome. If you can handle the Witch, you can handle the Void, right, I mean the Witch is freaking wild. I'm just crazy. Yeah, I'm coming from a place that The Void is one of those films where it's like very atmospheric,
Yeah, ominous, Like it's one of those films. It's like some films induce this dread, like there's absolutely no chance of survival, and The Void does kind of do that. It's like crawling in corridors by like deranged beasts from another dimension that are like, you know, after you in tight space. It's like it's a very intense move. Yeah, you know what I mean. But I guess if you're if you, let's watch it and we'll report on it. Yeah. Yeah, have you ever experienced the feeling of
being chased? It's the scary feeling of being chased or trapped? Yeah, Like if you ever played like Minecraft, as silly as that is, Like, have you ever been running away from an Enderman. Well, I have scary rights. Scary. It kind of induces that sometimes I can see where you're coming from with that. Nick, did you ever play Slenderman? Did you play slender at the seven Pages? I did eight pages? Sorry I
did. That's scary, Yeah it is. It's it's pretty spooky. It's weird because like some horror movie lender some horror movies I can just handle great, no problem. Midsummer is like, I don't know if that's a thriller. Well, it's actually considered a comedy, a black comedy. I love like thriller. It's very funny. Like The Shining is one of my favorite movies of all time. It's Alien is probably my favorite horror movie ever. It's like, oh my god, Alien's amazing. I never I've never seen
anything like the moment when the replicant it gets revealed. Nothing like it nothing because you know you never see it coming. No, and then it happens and you're like, it is going to do one of the worst feeling rug pulls. You can Oh, yeah, the thing is better. That's unfair. I love the thing. It's very good. Yeah you would like the thing. Yeah, you would you would love I've been he's been telling me that for like over a year. Now, I'm ready to watch it.
I'll watch it. And the Void is basically it's just inspired I think, yes, yes, yeah. The premise is like they're trapped in a hospital like around a cult and they're like really trying. It's a cult. I'm trying to It is like the article, and they are constantly being attacked by the clear things. Well, they're being attacked by the cold. The colt is like sacrificing them to open a doorway to the void where these entities are coming through from another dimension. Ye, it's both. Yeah, it's like
they're being stalked by these psycho killers with knives. But then there's like demonic monsters. Yeah, and it's all practical effects. Yeah, you know what's crazy. Since we're talking about the thing in prosthetics, have you seen what the Thing from twenty eleven was gonna be? I haven't watched it. I haven't either, but it's all cg and everyone hates it for that reason. They had prosthetics practically, Yeah, you tricked. I'm trying to say,
they had practical effects that were crazy. But then the movie got rushed out and they couldn't. Yeah, like there's one of the things that they would do, how the thing where it was a piston with a silicon like ball on it, so when it would it would be like an eye opening and closing from like a sphincter type or if it was. It was disgusting, but it was so good. It was so good. It's always going to be more impressed with practical effects. Yeah, it's always better, and then
it's gotten so convincing. Yeah, it looks yeah, like even thinking about well Star Wars episode spoiler, but like when when episode seven came out, they went back to, like I love mostly practical effects, and it was like the charm was back the chart. There's nothing that's cap episode four though, episodes four. In my episode four is my favorite. Yeah, I love the vibe of a man playing with toys because that's what it is. Honestly, though, like we gotta all agree, cg I Yoda is better
than puppet Yoda. No, it depends, yes, yes, because he'd be in puppet puppet form in the fur in the in theriginal in the original and episode is Yoda's goofy. Yeah. In episode one, the phantom menace. Yeah, but puppet is when they you know, will say when that makes a return, Yeah, it's it's fired. It's so fire. Bro, Oh my god. But i mean, look, the thing is like, yes, CG. Yoda like pops off with all the cool action. Yeah, but puppet Yoda spits facts. Yes, so you know he's going
to say something important. Luminous beings are we Oh my god, bros crude material? Yeah, bro, he's just spitting facts. So Okay, what age were you when you started to, you know, get into the phenomenon stuff with their family, Like we never really talked about this openly until we were adults. Yeah, I would say probably. So I've always I'll preface it by saying, I've always believed y'all, but I've always been confused where
it fit into Christianity. Yeah, because that's always what you do, right, You try to define it with what you with, like you know, and what I knew was Christianity. So like I tried to make it fit. Sorry, it doesn't fit. Ye. I mean when first I was I know, that's not really for you. I guess it's a natural reaction. Yeah. So like I've always known, I've always felt like I've always believed, but I never and I can't like approach all about it because it's
confusing. It's something, it's weird. I could have obviously, I could have. Yeah, we would have been happy. I know, you know, I you know, it's too late to regret it, but I do feel. Yeah, I was like, you know what I mean, I was really coming. You are not on the list of people who made this hard. There's nothing to read it close. Yes, no, I'm just saying it would have been okay if he did. Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, but I've always you know, I've sat in in
the red room. I sat in. We watched Catching big Foot. What is it? Yeah, I think it was tracking what is I don't remember, but I know the shore you're talking about is foot or something like that. Yeah, we've watched that, watching that, and I loved it because I love you know, I've always loved cryptids. I love my I've loved the Fresno Nightcrawler. You know what that is. It's a it's a it's a security it's a home security footage video of what's essentially white sweatpants with eyes.
They're walking and it's like a big one and a little one. What dude, look at it? I love heard of that one. I love the yo did y'all see uh Lee, you're on TikTok right, Like yeah, okay, well that is not a shameful I love. No, it's just I'm not really I have I just swipe. I like. It has a lot of drawbacks, but it's it's there's so much amazing information content. I'm worse with Twitter. Last month there was like an explosion of gnome videos. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, wait wait yeah,
it's exactly what it is. Don't don't think too hard about it. There was an explosion of people posting videos that they were claiming was no, it must have come off of the me as a baby. It must have come up. I can hear that song in my dreams, like the little song, dude. I swear like there's just been a resurgence of like you know, little cryptids, cryptids and little uh No, it's folklore. Okay,
I would say, but there's a fine line between the two. They do like I would, I don't, I wouldn't say, and I don't like saying wind to go too much. There's you know, there's some negative it's in the the native sphere. It's like inviting it something with skin Walker. I shouldn't say it, but like you can't avoid it the same thing in a way. It's from what I understand, I'm white. I don't know for sure, you know, but like the that can google and read exactly.
Yeah, But like what I understand is it's like cloak, like like nine tails cloak. You gain the ability that's like you're not it's not like explains walking from what that might help you a little better. What I understand about window Go is this like possession. That's okay, Well those two are
separate. Like that's based on like a curse that you get driven to a point of desperation and it the curse of that and habits you, and then you consume, and then the more you consume, the more intense it gets. They get to a point where they eat their own lips. It becomes so ravenous. The window Go, okay, is a window Go slash skin Walker's okay, They're definitely different. Are they considered types in a way?
It just depends. It's it's it's native lore, okay, It's the window Go is algonquin I don't know what the skin walker is if I'm okay, yeah, I mean they're is it one of those things where like people's belief can Yeah, it's like this. It's like you think you seem shows like
Supernatural and all this other pop culture media. There's video games about it where the window goes like a creature, yeah, but the belief is more like it's a spirit, yeah, that takes over you and you on a rampage through the window go yeah, and you become like this feral, demonic spirit and it's undying and you'reiblistic, and they like they really believe this, like
they will have. That's wild, and that's why we don't like it's frowned upon to talk about it by name in some in some tribes for that. But I'm like Harry Potter bro I'm like, but the same thing with a skin walker, the same kind of thing. The it's more of like the ability. I don't like planes walking in the magic, the gathering types fear. Of course, you're not learning to walk across planes. You're learning to change your shape physically, and it's wild. It's super fascinating. I love
both stories. I love both lures very much, but they're not cryptids, I wouldn't. They're definitely lore or folklore myth more appropriate. But you know, I think Mothman's kind of gotten to that point a little bit too. It's a bit of both, a bit of lore, bit of cryptid big big foots the same way I mean, y'all have your own spiritual you know, y'all have a mythos of your own for the big Foot in its own
way. We like your dad's incredible dream, and it cross references with like I think it's called far Site, which is where the the not the Monroe they later got involved in Monroe, but the the army, the projects target, you know, remote viewers. They were getting similar hits about big Foot, you know, liked, yes, similar, You've talked about the dream, Yeah, and on the show It's very cool. In the eighties they
were getting similar information. And then Dad had that dream. So and just to refresh my memories that like, the Bigfoot is a species from some other realm or some other planet. Well, well, what happened to Dad's dream is they were on another planet. I can't recall the name. I don't even know if they were given one in Dad's dream. That not Monroe, I keep saying Monroe. The remote viewers with Project Stargate, I think they called it like mar Duke or something like that, or maybe that's even an
other literature. But they were on another planet. Okay, So now from their perspective of my dad's dream, they wiped themselves out in a cataclysm, and the Guardians that the this this sounds like some movie plot or but the beings that like my dad experienced initially they called themselves the Guardians and my dad's dream, they came in and they whisked They kind of like just took all
the souls of the billions of dead beings who wiped themselves out. And you know when they when they destroyed themselves, they went into a shock like you know, like they always say, spirits stay behind them and they has a shocking death. We'll imagine a whole race having a shocking extinction. So the Guardians took their souls, fashioned them a more primitive body, brought them to Mars, and you know, gave them the capabilities of enterdimensional travel and they
kind of roam between Mars and Earth. So this is so that was in dad's dreams. So cool. It's very and I think we covered this when we talked about this so so long ago. But it's very similar to the d classed excerpt onca dot gov the nineteen eighty four mission to Mars where they had a remote viewing team remote few Mars. That's exactly what I was just saying, like, yeah, they correlate, well, that's yeah, and they got the same information basically, right, Okay, Yeah, and you
can go read that pdf online. I think it was called Project far Site something. Yeah, I mean, if you just google. But yeah, they were like convinced like the way we go to other planets is with our mind back then, I don't know anyway, So like it's it's crazy, Like the reason that the beings supposedly created their primitive bodies was so that they would have like lower cognitive capabilities so that they could redevelop over time so that
it wouldn't be such a great shock. So it's like rehabilitating the souls, allowing them to slowly evolve over time again but be protected and safe like that. You know, nobody can really capture big Foot on camera just just dips away, you know, just hops away. Who knows if that's all true. I mean it was a dream, right, But yeah, you know it could be some big allegory or or symbol or you know some a huh yeah wow that what if I got small feet, I would qualify. I
would qualify as a big foot. I think, Oh my god, you know what's so funny about that? My whole life growing up, my parents called me bigfoot. Really because to this day they still call me big foot because I walk very heavy and like we had very I guess, like hollow floors or you know, you step. It makes a lot of sounds like boom. They would always say when I they could hear me coming a mile away because I've just boom when I walk, So they would always call me
big foot. So maybe I am a big foot. It's a lot of sense. Wow. Thanks, it resonates with me. Big Foot's dope. D Yeah, I love it. I mean I got used to that cool bigfoot shirt, like I have years I have big foot meditating in a little yeah this little moodra going on that can you do that with your legs? Nah? Well I don't have shoes on. Hey we did. We did a skit where we tried to do that. Oh yeah, I watched that yoga was only one. We try, Yeah you watched it seven hundred.
Well for now, there will eventually be more when yeah it'll blow up. Yeah, but yeah, okay, cool. So we didn't really talk about the phenomenon stuff until we were adults. But oh yeah, but like when did you really like when did it start clicking with you? It's hard to say, Like, I've always like wanted to know more. The story has always been incredibly fascinating. I've always like, yeah, I've just always wanted
to hear more. I would say, like maybe teens, I was a little bit more curious because like at that point, y'all were falling in line with what Like I was already reading about like I would. I've you know, like I would read Creepy Pasta as a kid, like all the time, Like I would be in high school, not doing work, looking at my phone reading about the goat Man like like all the time. So like
I was already like, yeah, the goatman in my backyard. Meanwhile, his brother who has said this on the show, So it's okay to talk about having knows and visions about being dragged a hell, yeah, hearing dad when he wakes up every day. Yeah, I like, yeah, well, I've Warren and I fell into a similar path. I would say we both are really interested by Christian themes in that way. Like he likes I like Isaac. It's literally the same thing. It's called the Binding of Isaac,
which is a story in the Bible about Isaac being sacrificed. Lo and behold he dies in his own way. But like that's and it's filled with its own like runs from Nordic like mythology. It's filled with the like the zodiac stuff. I love it. I'm so like you're like, it's the combination of the two. It marries the two things. I'm really cool with your Christianity and subconsciously being pulled in those directs. Yeah. Yeah, because
I've always been interested in zodiac. Like people would talk about their horoscope and I was like, that's weird. I've got no clue what that means. Yeah, but it's talk it talks about And I love space. Space is like my biggest fascination except horror and other things. But yeah, goat Man, I love that story. Man, if you've ever read The Goat Man, it's fire, it's heard of the goat Man. I've heard of the goat boy, why are you the goat? Yea, that was truly a
blank. That was that was downright pathetic. It's ok it's okay, Yeah, I swung it. I got it. Didn't even make it on the field, I got it. I don't know what you're talking about. I said, you're the goat. Yeah, okay, okay, I appreciate you. But yeah, like I always, I've always been fascinated with I've always wanted to know more. But it's hard to approach that when like, like some of the first things you were like piecemealing with me was like like those
some of the first things. Yeah, we yeah, that's it. We got territory. Yeah, but that's one of the first Well look it up later, okay. It's it's like it's not great, or don't don't I mean, or might have to blur that one. Do you know what that is? Yes, it's kind of why I stopped going in a conspiracy. It's like Alite. It's like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean like alite like bad stuff to kids type stuff. Yeah stuff, we don't. It's
okay, all right, we'll blow the word. No we don't. I mean, you never know, YouTube could be listening and being being that word. Yeah, I should have chose a different whatever, it's move on, it's okay, so uh yeah, and then cern which shine that one's cool yeah, wild wild show that to me, I was like, this is to show you the commencement ceremony. Yeah, the tunnel. It just makes
no sense. Why would they do that? Yeah, the whole entire time I was four hours of showing, I was like, it just bad vibes, it felt wrong, it's it's it's a doozy of a watch. So those were like some of the first things. Like, I mean, we would always talk about a horror stuff already, I feel like we talked about games. So it's just we never like because I didn't like go to your
house very often. I hung out with Emily a lot more. Shout at Emily yeah and uh like so like we would just y'all would play Pokemon and stuff. I was never huge on Pokemon until way later. Yeah. I feel like I've always like been out of step or first and getting into things really so yeah, like one piece, I always okay, okay, okay, okay, I've always felt the opposite. I've always felt very slow to
pick up on this kind of stuff. And interestingly enough, when I finally got like my big breakdown of my astrology chart, that was one of the things that it said is that you are slow to pick up on metaphysical concepts and things like that, but when you do catch onto them, you like fully concrete them. Yeah. Your I don't know your mentality or whatever it is, but I mean I had a similar experience with like at first hearing about all this stuff, I did the same thing, like try to fit
it inside the Christianity box and all of that stuff. Everyone tries to sit in that box, whatever the boxes, and and so serendipitously, it was like I was kind of going through my own religious deconstruction at the time. That like right before Ryan and I started talking about like doing the podcast and like do before really Ryan had started dropping the heat on me of like the esoteric stuff, the metaphysical stuff, I was already start going through like a
religious deconstruction. Yeah, kind of realizing the contradictions and the moral contradictions. Yeah, it was. It was really the concept of hell that did it for me. Yeah, it's it's super scary. It doesn't quite make total really a positive message. Yeah, no sense and then like only the elite few perfect are are allowed to like not suffer for the rest of all. It's absurd, and so it's just not the way that was happening already.
And then me and Ryan were kind of reconnecting, and he's dropping this heat on me, and every time he would come to me with something, it's like I would feel this little glow inside of me, like that's it. That's the thing. You know. I was doing that intentionally because I was I was trying to remember how how like when you were younger, a lot of this conversation would terrify you. Oh yeah, I was. I was
trying to show you. I was trying to show you certain things that had proofs behind them, to like make you see things that you can't lensee yes, you know, like the six pointed star vortex on the surface of Saturn, Like you can't resk it so fun you can't really. Yeah, when you saw that one, you were like, dude, I still show people that to this day because I you know, we've been saying in the past couple of days, like I'm science guy. It just really interests me.
And that was one thing where I was like, hang on, that's that can't be real, right. I was like, that's not real. There's there's not a heck sagonal storm just raging on Saturn. There's the negative. And then I just went and looked and looked, and every picture is a hexagonal storm on the bottom of Saturn. And I'm like, oh, this is how do you explain that? You don't? You don't, you know, you don't. It's it's bigger than us, It's right, it's bigger
than what just science alone can comprehend. We have a tiny thing that we can study here, right, and we're not there and it's just not possible we can talk about it. But yeah, and that was one of the first major major things that clicked in my brain, like, this is something I think also. I think also when you found out about Alistair Crowley, because that's because that's like real history, and you start googling him, and
you start googling all the people publicly who you know associate with him. It opens this rabbit hole. Even though it's all dark and negative, it opens this rabbit hole in your mind, like people really are into this stuff. Yeah, and Osiris was a huge part of it too. You telling me about your dreams. Yeah, yeah, I think that for me, I agree. Sorry, no, no, no, cut me off. That's what we do as I'm always hesitant to tell that dream because of what people
think. But like that that changed my life. Yeah, it kind of changed mind too, because like it's such a specific, vivid telling of you know, it's like hinting at the mythology of Osiris. It's like you're just having this as a dream, and it's like it's one thing to just see Osiris in a dream, but the whole like frog dying and coming back to life things, And I felt this deep sadness for it, like it died
and suffered in my hand. I was lost. It sounds more like a trip than it does a dream, Like it's more the way you describe it seems it was just uncharacteristically very vivid. It was. It was hyper vivid. It was borderline lucid. But I wasn't aware that I was in a dream. Yeah, but the vividness of it was like real life. I just remember always feeling like this is way too specific to not be sick nificant.
Yeah, this is so well. Also, like I knew nothing about Osirius other than from Smite the video game, and I thought, I mean I never even played the character really and read it. I just thought he was an evil god. Yeah, he's green, he looks like a mummy. Like I'm thinking he's a bad guy, right, he's got a sickle. I mean, I just thought it was a scary, like evil Frankenstein. God. I didn't know anything about him. Yeah, And I had that dream and I was like, I can't I can't stop thinking about this.
I'm so curious. And you look it up and it's like it's like a early archetype of like christ consciousness. Yeah, or it might be the origin. That was one of the big things for me too, Like I really like most of no, like religion is like original, Like they all share very specific details with each other, like there's always a great flood, right, Like there's always something. And then you know the existence of a
prodigal son type figure. So like when you describe like Egyptian and that's way older, when like way older, and Chris, I felt like that was really he just grew up in Egypt. Yeah, that's that's just common knowledge. And then he came back spitting heat. And then you go back and you realize that there's stuff that goes even further back, like Zoroastrianism. Yeah, that was a huge click for me as well. It's so weird before that. Oh yeah, zoro Astrinism is only a thousand years before Christ three
thousand BC, but it's still old. It's still it's still older. Is in Christianity? Yeah, you know what I mean. And it's like some deep spiritual wisdom. The original zoro Astrinism, not when it what it later turned into, which was like Mythriism that is a far shoot from the original, but they're different texts, but it all claims to be zoro Astrounism whatever. That's a more in depth study. But yeah, it's crazy, bro. Like I've I've walked away from all of this, like where I am
at right now in this moment. I believe that there is a true I say christ consciousness force. I also say Buddha consciousness, but for some reason that doesn't ring to me in the same way because when I think of Buddha consciousness, I think of a man or or you know, just it is more human. I'm a man, so I think of a man, but I think of a human who is wise, who is enlightened. But when I think of christ consciousness, I think of someone who is awakened to more
of a cosmic you know, divine compassion, love. And maybe that's because I grew up Christian and i've and I have a little bit more of a emotional tickle when I think of the word Christ is over Buddha. You know, I grow up a Buddhist. They may very well be the same thing, but I believe there is a thing that there is a level of consciousness that a human can experience that is in resonance with the actual you could say, secret or true vibration of light, you know, Christ consciousness. I
would figure they would be the same thing. Yeah, they do kind of fall into a similar vein of like ideas. It's just how which one got spun in which way. It's even like it was either Ramdass or Terrence McKenna who said, like, when you go into the DMT realm, you're in the room with Christ. And at the same time, who was that? That was Ramdass or Terrence mckinna, I gotta think about it. It might have been it was one or the other. I think it was the room
because we did a Ramdass episode. We've never done a Terrence mckinna. Yeah, which we should. Actually, it really should. It's about time, like yeah, yeah, dude, Actually, let me say this real quick. It's kind of funny. We're two years into this, we're one hundred plus episodes in, and I think back sometimes I'm like, why have we not talked about this? Yeah? Like why have we not done Nicola Tesla? You know, we get so stressed about what should we talk about?
What should we talk about? And there's so much more that we can explore. It's exciting when you put it in that perspective. Yeah, every time we get together, like what are the next few episodes, it's like we come up with it fast because there's an endless supply there is really used to think that, at least I did. I used to think likely, No,
it's impossible. So many I like figures that you can just study, honestly, like, because you'll get to a point where you might have just maybe not defined but like described a lot of belief systems and stuff, but you'll always have figures like oh yeah, yeah, and like even if they're not great figures, you'll like, I'm not suggesting do Alistair crow Crowley.
But I am suggesting that he is worth studying. Oh yeah, so we talked about him on the show exactly, so cliny, I didn't want to like, why do we sit in high school and we're forced to study Nazis? Like I think, you know, it shouldn't be seen as a bad thing to study things that are bad, right, Yeah, depends on your intentions. You can learn things from horrible things that happen in the past.
Yeah, you can learn things. My opinion is more like it's like that, But it's also like I just want to be aware of what has happened. Sure, period, like it's the whole story. I just want to know what has happened. Yeah, I want to know answers. I'm not trying to get down and you know, study this material as a neophyte and become enlightened by you know, master Crowley. I'm just I just want to know what happened. Yeah, that's neutral. That's some something Alex don't know
about. Yeah, that's some great Jedi shit. That's yes, it's being aware of information without you know, endorsing it or being attached to it or whatever. Yeah. I think I think everybody should study a little bit Uster Crawley and see that that is a reality. But I also am like, you know, we've talked about this many times on the show, like it's a lot of that propaganda to freak people out. Yeah, I don't know, some of it could be. How could well be? You know,
how could any of us know? He could have been a sip. We don't know exactly, We don't could have been. It could have been. It really could have been. Ryan talks all the time about how he was six. Yeah, well that's that's just history. Yeah, you know, so, I mean it's very likely. It's it's more than possible, it's likely. Yeah, you know, I think so too. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, like I'm I'm definitely convinced there is some sort of
christ conscious thing. Just to wrap up that, yeah, you know, but like it matters, you know, like being kind to people, being compassionate, being you know, just smiling Like I'm telling you, dude, for the first time in my life, after that documentary aired the other night, I just lay in bed and I just smiled. Yeah. I don't just sit around and smile, you know what I mean. And it was like, you know, I did too, it's good that whole Like you
texted us, You're like, this got me Geeking's right. I texted the group and I was like I can't stop smiling. Yeah yeah, Like I smiled like until I fell asleep. Same. It just made me feel so relieved and so happy, Like, yeah, I mean you've been since January, like you have been toiling internally and externally since anyway about seven yeah yeah, yeah, no, but yeah in January of twenty twenty. Yeah, for sure. The story isn't over. But you know, like, have
you ever had any sidings? I have had h one night with Chris Sinior. We went he was like on the phone most of the time, which you know, it was book related. So it was around then while it was being written the past years a couple of years. Yeah, I do not have many. I started writing the book only like last April, so it's been within the year. Yeah, you know, and we went out there. I think it was last summer, like a start of last summer
around March, gotcha. I can probably put it in March, maybe April, it doesn't really matter. But there, you know, we saw like he described about ten to fifteen. I think that's pretty accurate. I saw some pretty strange, obviously undefinable visuals. Yeah, and uh, I mean that's I'm not like I want more, I really want more, But I
did see. Yeah, I saw to be careful what you wish for, bro, No, I don't want to want a story about little baby Lee studying spooks and ghosts and books and coming home scared and you're sitting right here having the face of reality, and I think changed. I've I've transferred that energy from fear into excitement to wonder. Yeah, yeah, curiosity and wonder.
I like I used to in that in that uh, in that like idea, I would like walk around the house being like afraid I'm going to see a ghost, and now I'm like, let me see what, let me see that, let me see what he's like. Yeah. I'd rather preparing myself to be afraid than be afraid to see. Oh yeah, okay, that's a quote. That's a quote right there. I'm trying to rip that was heck. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. That's awesome. Dude.
Could I tell you all the story about the night before the documentary earned? Yeah? Please? I hadn't told you this yet, Okay, I told Alex, because I've seen you know, I came home and we've seen each other a few times since. It's pretty wild. He said, this is the night before it aired. Gotcha, So it aired. Let let me get it straight, because it aired late at night August first. Was what day? Tuesday? Sure? Because yeah, okay, so Monday night.
I think it was Tuesday. Yeah, so Monday night it was Marky's wedding. Shout out Marky. He and his brother Bobby have been there. Like a fan favorite episode of ours. It was a wall back, but I think we called it Mormonism and demonic encounters. Anyway, Markie got married, so we we were. It was such a beautiful wedding, dude. Just it was such a wonderful, just great time and I'm so happy for
their family. But they came over to SkyWatch, you know, both of the brothers, some of like Bobby's girlfriends, some of their friends and and it was just like a crowd of us out there. But right before they got there Monday night, Yes, the night of his wedding. But it was a complicated situation and it was totally fine. He was not in the doghouse. It was like it just it worked out perfectly, you know,
like family in town. Bride's busy, So anyway, he comes over to SkyWatch, and right before they get there, my dad and I are just kind of like getting back from the wedding, settling for a minute. The night before we all SkyWatch. We didn't see anything, but the sky was like one hundred percent covered in clouds, and you know how it goes. It's pretty hard to see things on a cloud. Yeah, we didn't see anything the night before, but we were also kind of feeling the vibe.
Me and Dad. We didn't want to tell the group like now we're not gonna see anything tonight, but like also we kind of feel it like night, it's not really the night. So we just talked. We had open conversation, meeting new friends, blah blah blah. The second night, we get out there like it's on and like the clouds were gone and we're sitting there and right before they start showing up, Dad and I are talking about the time in twenty twelve when I had my intense experience with what Dad says
was the Lady. It's the experience when I'm like talking to him like I want to see an entity and Dad it's like, you know, cutting through the story here, He's like, dude, you gotta shift your perspective.
They're magical. They're not aliens. They're magical. And the cow star moon at we're talking about this experience in that moment, and he starts telling me and he's like, sign and like that video you took two weeks ago, the one where the two orbs flash over each other, and like on the phone with him, he's like, you don't get it, like your voice is connected to them or they're they're connected to your voice, like you you have to understand your connection with them. And I'm just like, wow,
you know, sitting there then I kid you not. I don't know if you notice this. I'm sure you've noticed this. Obviously you grew up on this property too. But at the woodline there's a fence about hip HiPE. You know, it's like it's not chicken wire, but it's wire. Yeah, a fence is right there at the tree line. And just on the other side of that fence, I'm talking about a blood curdling howl, a coyote, how at us? How old at us? And from horrible It
sounds like a it sounds like a wolf. No it sounds like an us. Well, no, it's not a it's not a bark like a dog. It's a howl like a wolf, like a like a build up in the long peak of the sound. And then a couple of oh, you know what I mean. It was like it was like we're sitting there like whoa. And Dad looked at me. Dude, his eyes were wide, and you know that's rare. And Dad looked at me. He's like, son, I am sixty one years old. He kept saying that I am
sixty one years old. I have been all up in the woods in North Carolina. I've hunted here my entire life. I have never in sixty one years in any part of North Carolina heard a coyote howl like that. He was like, you need to pay attention right now because that was a message from the spirit world. And I pulled up my phone and he was like, he's looking at He's showing me, and it was like death and rebirth
symbolism being protected by the spirit world. It's like a trickster God, but like in a good way, like you know, like giving you a sign that you're going to be nude. And it was all this like positive symbolism. Wow. And he was telling me like, I've only ever heard coyotes out in the West, like hunting. My dad would always travel, he'd go hunt in Montana, in California and Texas and wherever. He would hear him out there. Never in North Carolina. Incredibly rare. Then I look
it up, we only heard the one coyote howl. They don't even howl solo. They howling packs. They howl in groups. It's it's they're communicating with each other. Yeah, they're usually like in my experience, they're a little bit more like yippie than a wolf. They're a little bit more like like a dog bark, like a high pitched Oh no, this was a half but yeah, no, no, I've only heard him like yep, and they like yip in packs, so you can like hear him in the
distance, but never like howl. This was straight up like, Dad, is this a wolf? And He's like, that's just coyote, you know. So then what happens. I'm sitting here, you know how it goes. We sit on our lawn chairs out there and we look up. Yeah, so I'm sitting here looking down, don't have my glasses on already. I'm trying to text my wife. Holy shit, I just saw coyote howl at me. I didn't see it, but I heard it, you know. Yeah. It was literally like forty yards away or less, like like
right there in the woods, Bud. He's snarling at the fence like it's right there, you know what I mean. I'm texting Jenny, Dude, coyote just howled at us, and this and this. I'm telling the story and then Dad is still looking up. I'm talking. Within two or three minutes of that coyote howling, he goes, oh, I just saw a spirit whoa five feet over his face, a black spirit apparition manifesting. He said it looked like a He's seen many of these. This is not the
first time. He said. It looked like a swimming magic carpet. It just flew over his face and then it disappeared. And then we turned and then we're talking and we're like mind blown, and I like kind of look out of the corner of my eye behind me kind of like this, and I see a bright orb but I like, I saw it up here, so I was like, huh, there's an orb? Is it a plane. No, I think it's an ORB. Know, you had the thought like we're trying to identify every time, and then a line of them start
coming. You know, they're side by side, but like it looks vertical from your perspective, but it's not that simple. You know, one is closer, but you know the orbs up there. And then a line of these blue dots start coming and I'm like, oh my god, is that starlink? Yeah, and then we got that video of the ORB next to
starlink. It was dude, It's like it's a crazy video. Seeing it on video is one thing, but imagine you're looking up there and you're seeing the whole freaking sky move Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of movement. One. Yeah, and like, not only was that starlink, but that was that was an ORB. Yeah. You can see a bunch of satellites and you're like, that's what, that's your sample size exactly,
there's your that's not a satellite. We also confirmed at the moment we saw it it was not the International Space He yeah, I mean we knew that, but Dad was going to post the video. He's like, let me double check, but no, the ORB showed up and it was very bright, like the the luminosity of the ORB was like way beyond the starling lights. It was gold. And then when the starling faded out, the ORB started flashing red and then it turned and flickered and disappeared. Wow. And
then the crowd showed up and then they started seeing some orbs. It died down when they like really they got like a few. They didn't get like all night affair, like you know, like it happens a lot of times. It was like they each saw two or three and some of them are crazy like flashes in the woods. Some of them were like, we literally saw one. This is rare. We literally saw an ORB going left from our perspective and it just did you turn, It took a hard right and
shot the other way. Oh, those are the ones that like curve and
change direction. Dad ain't a satellite. Yeah, I mean, we know they're not satellites by now, but it's like, come on, like I want I want to just super briefly tell everybody I overheard a conversation my dad was having on the phone the other day on the speaker phone with one of his old buddies, and he was talking about he saw the documentary, the History Channel episode, and he literally said in that thing, he was like, man, at first I thought they were satellites, but then they started
moving erratically, he said. He said, I saw him curving and moving, and he said, I know it. I didn't know satellite. He said. They had the astrophysicist on you, physicist man, and the NASSA man. I'm the CIA man, he said, man, they all said it was real and they had that machine out there and then he wasn't a plane, it wouldn't have drone, it wasn't no satellite. And then he was like, I want to come see him. That is just amazing that
just like that, just like tickles the little booty. Oh you have you not just say that. It's like a little booty, like it's a baby, Like it's a jokeful little baby. Was that like tickles the booty? That a little too visually stimulation. I'm a very visual thing. I know, I'm very visual. You know how crazy is that? This is like my dad's childhood best friend, like one of his best friends ever growing up fifty years Yeah. Yeah, and he's like, he literally said on the
phone, I don't believe in no bigfoot. I don't believe in no outer space mass. That's what he said, outer space mass. But when I saw that right there, I knew that was real. In the morning. It sounds like writing. He called me at nine thirty in the morning yesterday to tell me this. He texts me, He's like, it's like nine thirty, bro, And I had just woken up at nine. You know me, it takes me a while to get out of bed. He texts me, you awake, and I said, yes, sir. Within seconds
he called me. He was like, dude, I gotta tell you what I just heard. It was exactly like that. It was hilarious, bro. But I mean it's true. Like you've seen satellites your whole life. Yeah, when you see something that looks kind of like a satellite, except it's brighter and a different color, and then it starts moving weird and it's way up in the sky. A drone can't get that high. There ain't nothing, dude. At this point, we don't even gotta say stuff like
that. Right. They brought out that AI machine that tracks everything, even space junk. It tracks everything, and it was straight up saying those orbs are unknown unknown and also if it's just as simple as space junk, why is it not being seen all the time, every like the Moon video was flying around the Moon, everyone would have seen that happen. That's why we
know it's fake exactly. So like it's yeah, it just doesn't it's no identifiable thing that was just like that was smoking gun, that AI device, Yeah, it was like yeah, there's just no there's no arguing with the EEG thing as well, there's just no arguing. No, you can't refute it. The reality is, and like I'm I'm honestly, I am one hundred percent thankful and pleased and at peace with what aired and how it was portrayed and like what people have seen. But the reality is it was literally
one hundred times crazier. Yeah, they got over one hundred orbs and on the video they only had the space to set up like five sidings, you know, which is still a lot. And what I've all think, it's never been produced on camera, that's still a lot. What I've been saying Ryan though, is think about it, like if this is like the majority of the planet's first kind of look into this and there's immediately a hundred orbs, it probably pretty overwhelming. Yeah, and then also like it's televised,
so there's always this separation of disbelief or suspicion, suspension of disbelief. You'll never know who will receive it very well, and if you create a huge claim, you're less likely to be taken as fast. I think that was very tactfully right, perfectly done, because like, yeah, I mean if I had never heard a word of any of this and saw that the first time and there was a hundred orbs, I might be a little like, yeah, but that was one hundred unknowns. Yeah exactly. But it's okay,
It's okay. One is all. One is all you need. That's true, you know what I mean? Yeah, just one that's true. So I'm pleased with it. Oh yeah, I think it couldn't have been better. I mean it was fantastic. Yeah, I totally agree and amazing.
So then the next night we saw the documentary and then we were walking to the building where you know, we have this theater room in our apartment, and Dad was like, I fill him here halfway to the building, and I literally I was purely joking, but I was also like, come on, dude, like we gotta go I was like, Dad, tell him to wait. We got a show to watch, you know, in a few minutes. I gotta go set it up. And when we get
to the building, orb appears. It's right over the building. I swear where we're gonna watch the show and the ORB it just appears and then it goes and it disappears behind the theater building. And I literally made the joke. I was like, it's like a cosmic neon sign, like, yeah, you know, walk this way, enjoy the show. Yeah, it's a cosmic red carpet. Yeah, that was just flast in my head, like you know, you're driving on an intergalactic highway and you got neon signs.
It's like, right this way, enjoy the show. That's so cool, dude, that's amazing. I'm so happy for how Yeah, it could not have I mean, you can always want more. You're allowed to want more as well, but it also went incredibly well. That's not to sound like it could have been anything different. I guess I think it was perfect. Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't want that to I don't want to mince words. For sure. That was awesome, dude, It was
so awesome. If you guys, haven't seen it? Anybody listening? You gotta go check that thing out beyond skin Walker Ranch episode eight eight, Yeah, season finale. I mean, come on, now, you gotta peep that thing. If you ain't seen it, what you're doing, if you're listening, I think there's a good chance. There's a good chance. There's a good chance. But if you haven't, that thing is sweet. Yeah, honestly, I got that astro physicists out there. I'm dying, just
twisting in erratic forms. Yeah, it's we're just having fun now. Yeah, you know, it's like the burden is gone. But for sure, was there anything before we close out that you didn't? I mean I did put like lots of notes, but that's that's for next time. Oh yeah,
yeah, absolutely. I do want to say, like, because I've been a long time, like since before you even aired the first one, I've been following the project, and like when you started producing, you had said like, oh yeah, we'll have you on maybe like we'll have you on, and I from that point was already writing lots of notes, lots of notes. Y'all would say things in the episode and then I'd be like, I'm going to talk about that. But then I stopped doing that because
that's too much. There's one hundred episodes. Now I'm not going to sit here and you know, goofily nitpick or not. You know, like that's not how it was, but like that, you know. But like I've a lot of notes, like like I want Thumper. I thought talking about that because like like esoteric symbolism. Yeah yeah, yeah, and like I have a whole like I Stephen King he is bathing in it, he really is. I want to read this is a dark Tower. Yeah, there's
like I think there's ada I really want to read. It might be twelve, there's a lot. I've only read a few of his books, but they're all incredible. Read Pet Cemetery. I haven't read it. I have copy. I've seen the movie. I've seen the one and the classic. Oh dude, classic better Yeah. Pet Cemetery though, like you know what the premise is. Yeah, it's like a cemetery of pets when they come to life, right yeah, yeah, so it's there's more to it.
Everything comes to life. Yeah, anything's buried, Oh, anything buried in it will come back. We'll spoil it for me, okay, yeah, your children, Yeah, yeah, the book. I want to preface it by saying the book feels bad, really, the whole book. Once the child passes away, the whole book. Yeah, it's like, once it happens, the sensation of dread never stops. And it's not like because he's writing, like all these weird things keep happening, it's am I really gonna
bury this thing? Am I gonna bury my child in something that may or may not come back messed up? Oh? Yeah, And the animals would come back and they'd be like rabbit or yeah, you would violent. They would always come back every time, and you would go house and bury it, and then they would come back a day later and they'd be wrong.
And then the child dies and it's like, well you know, yeah, yeah, Like they bury the pet first, and then the pet comes back and he's like well and then the child dies, and the rest of it's like do I do it? And then when he does it, it's bad, it's not good. And the way he writes grief sucks. I think I feel bad. I think I've only read The Shining. Kujo got The Shining so good? Have you read Doctor Sleep? I have it? I haven't read it yet, you and I have need to read it. I've
read Shining Kujo and uh, Salem's Lot. Okay, Salem's Lot is so good. Do you know what it adapted? You know what's adapting it? Midnight Mass. It's literally an adaptation of Salem's Lot. Wait, oh oh, yeah, is that not Midnight Mass. It's I cannot no, wait a minute. I've read Salem's Lot after I watched Midnight Mass, and I didn't put that together the whole time reading Salem. It was because you know, the first two we'll talk, you know, as long as we can.
The first one that he did, the Hunting of hill House. It's based on the book by Shirley Great show, Yeah, incredible, great, surely something Jackson. Shirley Jackson's called The Hunting of Hill House. It's a book. The second one is a Blin manner, The Turn of the Screw. This that the Turn of this Crew. Yep? Is that a Stephen King? No. But in Salem's a Lot, the guy loves it. He loves Dracula and Salem's lots of you know you've probably read Dracula, right,
yeah, yeah, I mean forever again, read School. I've read Frankenstein Oh, wow, you should read Frankenstein is a beautiful It's it's it's considered like the first of the two most integral like genres. Now what Frankenstein. Yeah, science fiction and horror. It's but it's Mary Shelley revolutionism, both about simultaneously. Yeah. But the book is so much more beautiful than any of the movie adaptations and stuff, because you can't distill it. Frankenstein's
monster was beautiful. Yeah, he was perfect. He was perfect. It was Hanny. That's why he threw people off. It was sensitive, yeah, because he was so perfect. But yeah, Salem's a lot that was so hard. I cannot believe I didn't put together that, dude. It just never occurred to me, like I was like, oh, these are things. Yeah. It's also not like it's not very clear he talks about. It's more of an inspiration in an adaptation. Obviously I can see that
now. Yeah. But the reason I bring a pet cemetery is I mean, in like the way they bury the people, they bury them in a spiral shaped cemetery and they get resurrected whoa, you know, like the spiraling and they come back and like they're different. It's negative. I don't remember. I think it. I think it's says clockwise, it says one. It actually describes the direction. But like the whole thing, it's like literally
death and rebirth, that's the whole thing. But in the case of it, there's a phrase they say all the time, the soil is sour. Yeah, there's something like the soil is sour because they try the stony grounds something good. I'm gonna look it up for you. Oh my god, there's a particular quote that comes back. Yeah, I have a copy of
it. I just have. Granted I've only seen the movie Got You, but yeah, and the way they handle Henry, which is the wind to go, because there's a wind to go in it, they handle it really well. Uh, it's really fun the way they do it. I love it. I'd love it. I can praise pet Cemetery a lot. He doesn't even like reading it. He hates the way it makes him feel. Yeah, he said, it's it's the worst feeling book he's ever written. The ground is so good. Okay, y'all are hiving me up to read.
And then all of the other stuff. I mean, I don't even have to like the institute. Have you read it? It's like twenty nineteen, it came out recently. It's amazing. It's a way to go, creature that haunts the land. Reading that that's not explicitly in the movie. Nope, it's a wind to go. Yep. I mean typically his books are just like the movies are always great. Yeah, but then like, are they usually good? It's like they're not always great. Yeah, it's
good. The movies are not always great. No, they're they're not always great, but like the books always go harder even if the movie is shining, shining. That's just mostly always true though. Yeah, yeah, you know, honestly, there's some adaptations that do the justice. They like Dune is crazy, it's missing some important features. Yeah, but Dune is really good. Hot take, controversial take. Don't kill me anybody out there, but you did. I think The Lord of the Rings movies are better than
the books. I think that's not that hard a take. I can't read the books, honestly, it's not a hard I've tried three times. I love the books. I've read them all like five times. I love them. But I've watched the movies. You can't digest them one hundred times. Yeah, I love the story. I love the Laura, I love everything about it, the plot, everything, But the way that the books are written is just like so hard to get through. That's how I feel about
the Turn of the Screw one. It's really old. But then when you think about Dracula and it was written in eighteen ninety like six or something, it's like incredibly modern. It's it's impressively modern. Talks about Dune even though it's the nineteen sixties. It's modern, so it feels like you're reading a model, like it's the current. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's like so interesting, so compelling. Yeah, easy to understand. Yeah, well yeah, the first few chapters I had to reread like three times. I
thought I was having an aneurysm. But because they drop they drop you in without holding hands, just because of like the made up words. Yeah, well there's a lot of that. That doesn't mean it's hard to understand. You're just seeing make believe gibberish and you have to learn. But that's not your Yeah, that's not your fault. It's not. But I felt like I was having an aneurysm. The writing is in such a way that I
feel like you, it respects you, it respects you. Yeah, it's not overly, you know, fluffed up, and yeah, it's not patronizing. It doesn't spoon feed it to you. It's like you'll catch on. You'll catch on just if you just when you do, it's, oh, it goes. You can't stop when you catch on. Finally you're like, okay, I mean there's a reason I read like read. I've listened to in the model with an audiobook that's reading. But yeah, that's until reading. Yeah, I did it all within a year, and all of them,
all of them. WHOA, I've read seven, which is Brian and Kevin Anderson and Brian Herbert, The Sun and the Son. They're okay, but you can't be Frank, I've only can't read and Messiah I have. You should reach Dune and then you desperately need to get on. Sandworm is the sixth one, the seventh you ever read? Harry Potter. No, I'm gonna have risten to him. I recently. Yeah, he see his eyes are wide. I know, I know I've seen you see his eyes
are wide. I've seen him almost think about that one. You think about that right there? How you're making I thought about doing it about how you're making it feel. But yeah, he's same to you. Boy, I wanted like the institute, Stephen King's the institute. It is literally I can't there's no smoking mirrors. There's no smoking mirrors. It is the Monroe Institute. Yes, like I don't know if it's intentional, same time, same situation. I don't care. It's the mun Institute. They read that.
They're all the main character Luke, he he gets kidnapped, not the Monroe Institute, to be very clear, Emily didn't get it kidnapped, but he gets kidnapped and they force him to gain uh like psychic powers. So like he gets there's t K, what's telekinesis. Then the other one, uh mindread what's mind reading? Like telepathy, telepathy, the TP and TK that's what they call him. T K telekinesis, and so the ability to move
objects, and then TP is the ability to read minds. Eventually all of them gain the ability to just through like almost like a ritual where they go into a room and they call them the Stasi lights and you just look at weird circles and they make your brain uh more attuned to being able to like have their psychic abilities like yeah, and it was really yeah. I think it's called the four Lights in Next Generation. You know it is like that.
Yeah, it opens his mouth and it's like there's dead lights. Yeah yeah. Yeah. So like they they slowly in kind of like with the Monroe Institute in particular, they go into a thing. They'll have a little ritual where they all go separate ways and then try to actual project and you know, in a few words, right, like they'll all have their group
meditation session and then it helps open you up a little bit. They just do that in a group setting with everyone in the room where they get opened up a little bit, and then they all become more powerful, more attuned with their psychological selves. And you know, it's a Stephen King book, so it's not the totally you know, it's not totally nice. So it happens. It's always like a darker vibe. Yeah yeah, but like it's the same thing, like it's in in essence, it's still like nurturing a
psychokinetic type thing. And the kids, like they they even go into detail about how the if they're all together, they're more intensely a bit like it's crazy, dude, It's it's definitely a recurring theme in Stephen King. Yeah, by the way I talk about Barbie, I know you haven't seen it yet, so like very light spoils just teams. I'm not gonna tell you
what happened. But not only are there like the Matrix in two thousand and one references, but there's one quote where like you know, you've seen the commercial, you know they go to the real world. Yeah, and there's real people. One of the real people says, mom, do we just shine? Yeah? And it's like the context is like psychic, like you know, do we just shine right now? Something like that. Yeah, But but it's the reference. Yeah, you know, it's it's cool.
Stephen King's a genius. He really. I don't want to give him the same certainty of credit as like Lovecraft, where like he's very prolific. Ever he's a household name Lovecraft I think at this point is even if you don't know it. Yeah, well the Kings are because of Lovecraft exactly, you know what I mean, deeply inspired. But that's just how are ye are
imitates art? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Like he's super I love the way he does things like that, and there's endless supplies of his weird mystic teachings in it where he'll he's he's also like like Edmund with super mystical like he just it's really cool when Lee comes on again, we could do an episode around a Stephen King story. Yeah, we could pick one of the books we've never done. The Shining, dude, the Shining is dripping,
yeah, because you might not. You know, it would be even cooler if we just did like a more robust King episode where we each read a book we were interested in it. That's a fun idea because I'm kind of interested in reading pet Cemetery after being it. You know, it's described to me. You could read The Shining. I've read it, yeah, you know whatever he did read Doctor Yeah. Yeah, just read Doctor Sleep. Yeah, that'd be pretty cool. Yeah, pet Cemetery, big, No,
it's like they're all kind of fat. It's like four. Yeah, it's not too bad. It's King. Yeah. I mean when you can heard to the Stand and it each one being at least a less thousages. Yeah, that's why I could never read I love I want to read it. I hear it, like obviously it's his number one, one of his It's the Stand. Typically it's the stand and it the twenty eighteen remake of it. That's good first, really good. It's one of my favorite horror
films. I really like Chapter two. I know, like I really like it too, because if you take it too like I was talking about Junjiito, if horror isn't goofy, it doesn't work as well. It has to be kind of goofy. And Chapter two is very goofy clown. Yeah, yeah, like it has to be. But like the the whole thing where they like go off and they do their own little like story and it's just
good. I love it. It's it's very for next time, Leason, we all read a Stephen King No and we bring some stuff to the table. I've got to find a good one that I wanted to do. The JFK sassination one where the guy goes back and stops it. He That was a limited Hulu series. Was that good? Really? Top ten? It was? I think it was called nineteen sixty three Years. It was James Franco. It's like it was all right, it was, yeah, the series, but the book is supposed to be good. And then I hear
fairy Tale is good. It's his brand. New one about the anime. No, no, that's a fun idea. Yeah, I'm and like fifteen years will do a one piece episode. Yeah, yeah, you know. Tonight we watch a gear. Yeah, it's about to come out. It's about well, Alex has to meet his wonderful sweetie for dinner. Okay, sorry Olivia for holding him. We do have to wrap up, but Lee will have you back on. So I think we're at a great stopping point. Save your notes. Yeah. Yeah, we got through a lot of
Yeah, I mean yeah, we got a lot. We'll we'll, we'll do a This was great. It was like an introduction to you know, like I really did want to pick your brain about how you grew up. You know the vibe, right, I hope, I hope I answered it to you. You did, you did, because I never I never want to, you know, be negative towards people. Yeah no, but it's not anyone's fault that they're the way they are typically, you know, like it's hard to it's hard to define why, but they can't help it.
But but also like next time, you know, with that being removed from the you know, the the tasks at hand, we can we can do it more content heavy thing. Next time, I'll we'll dive into some King literature or something. I would love to I love King. I didn't know I loved King until I started reading it, and I think that's literally how everyone happens to do it. Yeah, he's great, he's super smart the way he or Okay, I'm sorry, I have an even better idea.
Instead of just doing a King episode, we do an overall not just Lovecraft's specific. Yeah, but like a more you could say mystical horror or cosmic horror, and we could do King. I could maybe read Uzumaki, we can open we can open the authorship here. That would be cool. But do more like a mystical horror. I would love the type thing, yeah or love Yeah, We've got to find one more author. I guess Juji, it's O King and Lovecraft. You know you gotta read Who's a Mocky?
It's so good Mission zero? Yeah, choired so good? Awesome? All right, well thankfully. Yeah, I was about to say that, you said at the same kind of I'm not gonna say it. It's okay. Thanks for coming on the show, dude. I would love to do it again. Yes, let's do it, all right, three two one, Bye guy. Weird things happen in the backyard L's house. Yeah, over it got so weird, kind of clus you're to hear likemiling on the
inside of it. No enough man, Wow, which come for I never dine, Sie begetting happy