Dessa is a singer, rapper, writer, speaker, science and philosophy connoisseur, podcast host, and ice cream flavor inventor. (Her flavor is Dessa’s Existential Crunch which consists of crème fraîche, brown sugar ice cream, Jameson Irish Whiskey, Disaronno Amaretto Liqueur, and a cashew and praline pecan brittle crunch).

Dessa has made a career of bucking genres and defying expectations — her résumé as a musician includes being part of the Doomtree collective, a solo artist with performances at Lollapalooza and Glastonbury, co-composer of pieces for 100-voice choir, performances with the Minnesota Orchestra, and top-200 entries on the Billboard charts. She also contributed to the #1 album The Hamilton Mixtape.

As a writer, she published a memoir-in-essays called My Own Devices which was released in 2018 in addition to two literary collections along with many articles in journals such as The New York Times and National Geographic Traveler.

And now she is the host of a new podcast that explores “why we do the things we do” called Deeply Human. The podcast is a fun exploration of a number of topics and brings in experts to help explain why we behave the way we do.

We wanted to talk to Dessa before we knew about her podcast. Here is part of the e-mail that we sent to her publicist to ask for an interview:

“While it may seem a bit off-brand for us to ask for an interview with Dessa, we think that it would be fascinating, and we’d love to talk to her about the intersection of music and emotion. While we typically interview behavioral science researchers and practitioners, we often interview what we call “accidental behavioral scientists.” These are people who are applying the aspects of behavioral science to their work without really knowing that they are doing it. Dessa captures a lot of our human experience in her lyrics and discussing that would be a wonderful way of exploring this concept. We would also love to talk to her about her experience with the scientific fMRI research that she talks about in her essay, “Call of your ghost.”

Our conversation with Dessa examined a wide range of topics – moving from her podcast, to music’s ability to create synchronicity between people, to how we can’t compare subjective experiences, to how emotional connection comes from dropping veils and getting out of our “practiced mirror face.”

This is an episode that you definitely don’t want to miss.

Links

Dessa: www.dessawander.com or www.doomtree.com

Deeply Human: wherever you get your podcasts from

Lute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lute

The Diary of Ann Frank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_of_a_Young_Girl

Alan Alda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Alda

Helen Fisher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Fisher_(anthropologist)

Barry Schwartz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Schwartz_(psychologist)

Oxytocin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin_receptor

EEG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroencephalography

QEEG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_electroencephalography

Autism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism

Epilepsy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy

Penijean Gracefire: https://penijean.com/home

Cheryl Olman: http://www.neuroscience.umn.edu/people/cheryl-olman-phd

fMRI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_magnetic_resonance_imaging

Neurofeedback: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurofeedback

Harry Haslow – Wire Monkey experiments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Harlow

Research on Emotion and Narrative - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325962169_Emotion_and_Narrative_Perspectives_in_Autobiographical_Storytelling

Drummer Boy (Military): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drummer_(military)

“Rock ’n’ Roll but not Sex or Drugs: Music is negatively correlated to depressive symptoms during the COVID-19 pandemic via reward-related mechanisms”: https://tinyurl.com/yw4v5avs

Pew Research (2016) The Joy and Urgency of Learning: https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2016/03/22/the-joy-and-urgency-of-learning/

Common Biases and Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHpBr0VFcaT8wIUpr-9zMIb79dFMgOVFRxIZRybiftI/edit?usp=sharing

Musical Links

Dessa “Fighting Fish”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9bwKI-fb7k

Dessa “The Chaconne” (Kurt’s favorite version of the song with Aby Wolf and Jeremy Messersmith): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8dt8mY2WiQ

London Bulgarian Choir: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GEDbKe038o

Lady Midnight “Bloodsong”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRb6Uqsvq5w

Chopin’s Mazurkas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5D46aHhRDM

Erik Satie “Gymnopédie No. 1”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL0xzp4zzBE

“Hamilton” soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPSWZUExZ8M

“Hamilton Mix Tape”: https://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Mixtape-Explicit-Various-artists/dp/B01M3XVPL4

Dessa Live - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5n1lsfZI3A