Beating The Book: Story Time with Chris Andrews, Part 3

racing tail thrown in as well. Part three Chrissie story Time on a numbers game at Visa Now on the podcast right here at Beating the Book. Enjoy it's a numbers game with your host still alex and believe in Adam's Good Monday morning to you from San Francisco. It's Gill, Alexander. It is a numbers game right here at Visa in the Vegas Stats and Information Network. Serious except Channel two O four, Visa dot Com, the Visa app, food Boast

link a game plus. Thanks for joining us this morning for part three, Part number three of the Chris Andrews story Time Special where we call together all the story not all the Story Times really, but as many of the highlights of story Times from years gone by, on the Beating the Book podcast and from a numbers game, and try to put it in audio form, back to back to back, because honestly, what better time ever is there to have done this than now in these strange times.

Hope your standing safe. I hope you're with your loved ones. And that voice you're here in the background is that of the South Point Hotel Casino sports book director Chris the Andrews my mess book A good morning, Chris. How are you man? What's going on town? I'm doing okay, I'm doing okay. Ye, actually one fine. You know, I joked about it last week. I'd make a great prisoner and um, reading, writing and watching a lot of TV stuff. That's that's my day and UH in this day and age.

I guess that makes you like a hero or something like that. So yeah, I'm doing good. Glad to hear you. And again, you know, if if a distraction is what we can create for folks, UH, then I think we're doing our job over here. Today we'll go through some of the great UH stories and and really these aren't stories to start the show. With today so much as they are that sort of segment that we had on top of stories, which was adventures in bad bookmaking through

your years. Again, the book is then one day, forty years of bookmaking in Nevada. That's where all these come from. And you started out, could you remind folks what the first couple adventures in bad bookmaking we left off with last Wednesday? Oh? I can't remember what are we talking about last line today? Oh my god? He's at hockey teasers. That's the one that has touched so many people. And I hear about that all the time, Dave Coke and uh,

sever kind of reminded me of it last week. You wanted to know whatever happened to a guy that was booking hockey teasers? And I would venture to say he's probably not the business anymore, But uh, I get I get those kind of notes every once in a while from guys, and that that seems to have struck a lot of people. Are we talking about rocks? He given numbers to a guy. This is way way long ago, and uh the Ivy League was still I like it one.

It wasn't a bunch of white guys shooting set shots, but it wasn't far from that, and before the shark clock in the three point line, and he was giving him totals like ninety seven two and the guy thought it was one ninety seven and one and one. And obviously that guy I don't think he stayed in business too long after that either. But those are a couple of the ones that I mentioned last week. But we got to hold watch others because I've been in there

a long time. I'm seeing some really bad book making over the years, and we're gonna have on some of those today. Well, those of us who weren't around for that, we sort of we we shake our heads and we're like, wow, I wish that kind of stuff would exist, because it happens today. They sort of like, ah, your bet is nullified and forget you kind of thing. Yeah, no, real sustained there is like that. Um, can we do the old Let's let's start with the start us opening lines.

I know you have a story around that, okay, So this would be like kind of towards the late eighties, mid the late eighties, and this is what Scott Sheller, who by the way, preceded me at Colty I took over for Scott and uh, Scott, I have certainly been friendly over the years. You know, we're not like real close or anything. Well we've we've had a relationship. I

like Scott. He's a big guy. Anyway, Scott really did a lot of things to move this industry forward when he was at the when he was at the start Ust and he would open the line on Sunday night at a Startust and it was kind of considered at the time like the opening number. And you know there was no no Internet, no Chris, no Pinnacle, nothing in

the Caribbean, none of that crap, you know. So Scott's line was the open line, and it was it was a madhouse to get to the window when Scott put up the numbers and he put them up and he had they had a lottery and like you know, you're one line or number four, you know what that was they had to get and you got to make through des and go to the back line. So this was a stock more that frenzy. Uh and so I had to die and rain And I don't want to mention who he is or where we were because guys that

figure out exactly who he is. But you know, we always get there's so many opinions in this business, and some are just some are like sort of right, some are partially right, and some are way way off. Anyway, a lot of guys, a lot of guys who would say, well, that opening number is as good a number as anything else in the world. And I would always say, you know, yeah, it was when Bob Martin was making the line. But you know, it was a whole different world back then.

We didn't have this kind of information. Thought that Bob's line wasn't great. Bob was you know, that was the bible. When Bob put out a line like seven, that was the number, trust me, that was And if it went one way or the other, you know, if you went back to Bob's number, you were going fun. But it wasn't like that anymore. You know, the whole the whole

world had changed. Everything had changed. But I still had some guys you believe that that opening number was a solid and number you could possibly get, and this guy evidently was one of them. So Scott would open the line, I want to say, like about seven o'clock on Sunday night, and he would open the line the next day on Monday morning at about eleven with Scott's opening number off the number that got that around. So some of these

games moved four or five, six points. You see how it goes in college football, and they pros, you know, aidan pros can move like a point. Maybe a point happened, that's the key move in the pros. But in college football, games would move like crazy. Well, he would open Scott's original number, the original number he posted on the board. So I was getting the I got naturally all the updates, you know what Scott opened and what the games had moved to. And you know, so by like eleven and

not everybody. There's like one other guy and he's I see him around Las Vegas right now. There's one other

guy that kind of knew this. And I would be there at eleven o'clock when he opened the numbers, and you know, by like eleven, third year noon, how was like done for the week with all my action, you know, any open numbers that I wanted, and then sometimes I agreed with the move, and then I would just you know, not play or you know what I mean, maybe come in and bet the other way or whatever I wants. You know, So I had, I mean, I was like a kid in the candy store. And uh, you know,

eventually this guy got fired. It cost me quite a bit of money and he was replaced actually by a friend of mine. So like the Grady train had left down, this guy did some unbelievable things. The other one that he did so I mean that the football was you know, and they it's a ton of money. Yeah, like I said, just got the bed into stale numbers for like a pretty decent limit. I think he was taken. I know I was to die in the game. And it's probably about Paul. He was taken. Uh. It really was like

a lot of Grady. But the other thing that he would do that shows you how sharp he was. We had. He would put up like the go don't go on fight, but he would put up two different numbers, Like he put up seven and a half rounds and you know over was the favorite, and he put up nine and a half round and then under was the favorite. Well, he was letting us parlay. You can parlay the over seven and a half to the over nine and a half and those you guys that camp, you know, you're

not quite figure. Yeah, if it goes nine and a half, it already went seven and a half, so you're written you were making one bet essentially getting paid for two of them, you know. And this went on for like a couple of years, and we had there was another friend of mine who was in there doing the same thing, and sometimes we would just split it, you know. Uh you know, he would tell me, goes, well, I'm gonna

beg both of them under. I said, okay, I'm gonna beg both him over, and like whatever we make we would split, you know, and uh t you could make a force. He wasn't taking a ton of money on these things, but you know, it was good. Every time there was a fight, it was good for you know, at least a couple hundred bucks in your pocket. You know.

There wasn't that much risk really. I mean, if it came eight rounds, you could lose you know, one unit, you know, but actually lose the parley, I should think, you know, so it could It wasn't. It wasn't risk free, but god nang, it was one of those things where you're getting you're making essentially a straight that you getting

paid for a two team parley. And it was a lot of grade in there too, And I just remember one day, you know, I was I was making the vet and he just he just kind of looked at me as, wow, um, I guess if it goes nine and a half, it already went seven half. Huh that's all. Uh yeah, I didn't realize that. Yeah, okay, like well that that particular gravy train stopped right then and there, but we had plenty of others going. That's just the kind of book maker was. And he's actually had a

pretty decent career as ay. Uh, you know, somewhere in like the political realm. So that again, that'll tell you what kind of realm that is. So that was that was the story Number one. I got that that Scott's opening numbers, you know, uh like four fifteen hours after they were posted, and guys that the start Us were killing. He said, there's even a story. And whatnome of the guy pulling out a gun to get in line to bet? Now? He said, Man, if I'm pulling out a gun, I'm

gonna be robbing somebody. I don't want to be given them my money, because that's pretty much what he was doing. Well, he was kind of he kind of was robbing someone, just not you with the gun right, yeah, probably yeah, probably yeah. Um but wait, so hold on now, so so those boxing and you can't even call this, I mean, can you even call those correlated parlays? I mean those are right on top of each other, so they're they're as correlated as anything gets. Um, but how long did

it last? For? How long would you say that you had the opportunity to bet those before? And I guess what you're suggesting is he was standing right over your shoulder and that's what ended it because he finally figured it out. Well, yeah, the boxing parlays and I would say the start US opening numbers, the start US opening

everything lasted like two full football seasons. I mean, like I said, and didn't say, wow, they didn't take big action, but they took like a dime, you know, I mean, so uh, and that's about all I was betting at the time. I had been a little more if I had a chance to get a good number or something like that. But I mean, you know, when you had that kind of great job, I mean, I didn't have that big of a bankroller bet every game that I liked,

you know what I mean. There was a lot of gravy out there, you know, like I said, you had guys, you know, almost killing each other to get in line at the start. So I mean I'd walk out of there on a Monday with you know plays sometimes you know, and uh, it was just it was it was just the biggest gravy train I could ever imagine. And he always keeping track of my action at the time. And uh, when my friend did go in there and replace this guy, I told himself, I hope you do okay, but I

wanted you to tell him. I want to tell you how much money you cost me by you getting this job, because he was he was way too sharp ever do anything that's stupid. He just wasn't going to do that. Year late eighties, mid to late um, yeah, probably, I'd say like eight six, eighties seven, like right in there,

right about it there. Yeah, but you know, you've seen that a lot, you know, with any time in new industry, and it was still sports betting, especially like in the casinos, was still like like a relatively new thing, and we still had the guys like from the old you know, the veggas veterans will know from the old Churchill down San Anita, Hollywood, downtown of Saratoga. I measured Bill Dark's del mar a couple of times. So those were a

lot of you know crust, the old bookmakers. It really knew what was going on, but a lot of you know, these casino executives. And I wrote it in the book a lot of times they said, wow, yeah, look at this guy. He's a nice guy. He reads the sports page every day. He'll just get the numbers and you know, we'll be fine. Yeah it looks good. Were highest hues are shiant and it was fine. Yeah, well our sports

book manager fine. And and just to give just to give the context christ to those days, because for those who aren't aware of Vegas in those days. And by the way, great shots at Visa dot Com and the Visa app of old Vegas shout out to uh our producer today, Danny Burke, for for helping to put those

up the um the sports books. We we all take it for granted now that sports books are inside casinos, but in those days, just to paint a picture, those were standalone sports books that had by and large the names of horse racing tracks. Is that how it was generally speaking? Mostly, Yeah, there's a couple that were not. Like I said, there was the Hollywood Downtom. But other than that, trying to think of some of the guys when there was you know the Hollywood which is the

on Hollywood race track. There was del Mar, Santa Anita, Churchill, Bounds, Oh Man, I'd have to, I'd have to. There was one the rose Ball, which obviously is not a race track, you know, but that's kind of where that's where most of the names came from. And back in those days, really the room was mostly dedicated to horse players. Um. You'd go in and the sports side was very small relative to the horse side, um, because that's that's really

where the action was. And like I said, I mean it's hard to think of that now, but sports betting, I mean it was popular amongst you'd say, guys like us, you know, but you gotta remember back in you know, go back in the day, uh, you know, horse racing and it was like horse racing, baseball and boxing were the most popular sports in the country and that's what people bet on. And that's they really didn't watch you hanging around and watching the game. They wanted you to

make your bet and get out of there. But the horse racing is a whole different thing. You were betting. And by the way, none of these races were on TV at the time. We all had they had the wire and if you ever watched them will be the sting. It was very similar to that. That's why we were getting horse results. But still you know the way the horses work. You're shipping now at the forum and you know, usually betting throughout the course of the day, so that

that's the way those uh, those shops work. But the sports book didn't get into the casinos until I want to say seventy seven, maybe seventy eight, something like that. Probably seventy seven I think, but again somebody can look that up and I think I'm Rocks. He probably has that edit his fingertips. But yeah, right around there. So before the end, the only time you could bet sports, this was by Nevada regulation was in a standalone shop. Wow.

We won't bore people with the details, but a lot of it had to do with uh prohibitive taxes on sports and then that got changed from tem percent. People don't even know that attacks exist today. That makes it a good deal for casinos to have sports books. Fascinating history, more adventures in bad book baking, and there's own many

of them. Harris has its own wing. We'll get into some of that on a numbers game at Visa right here with Chris Andrews, um exclusively on a numbers game Visa, the Sports Betting Network story Time, Part three, right here at Visa. Welcome back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander. Back on the numbers game. As the man said, thank you on flatter It is Gial Alexander from San Francisco, our satellite office in San Francisco, California. Christie Andrews joining

us once again. The name of the book then one Day, forty years in bookmaking in Nevada, and the reason it's called then one Day was when Chrissy would originally tell these stories on storytime during guessing lines on the Beating the Book podcast. Inevitably, invariably, every one of these stories would turn by Chrissie somewhere in the middle, giving some preamble and then say one day, uh and everything, Uh,

today we're talking about bad bookmaking. We were talking off air about what this one is, and then you said a couple of things that I'm like, I don't even get even decipher what that is. So you go ahead and tell this real quickie. Okay, this was Roxy was coming to Reno quite a bit, and uh, you know he and I we're running buddies, and uh, a lot of times he'd come to Reno. I make fun of all he used to be so broken up to sleep on my couch. Let's just say rock Rocky's couch sleeping

days are long gone, you know. But that was us. Was trying to hustle. Uh yeah, He's that all right for himself. But we would leave in the morning and you know, trying to get up to Lake Tahoe to make the first race in New York. And a lot of times, you know, we're you know, typical guys. We just you know, we were late. And uh so we would stop at Artichoke Joe's, which is this little place in Carson City along the way up to Lake Tahoe.

So we'd stop in at a arti Choke Joe's, and we'd make our bets for like the first to New York, and then we you know, hustle on up to the lake and I'll finish our our daily business. Whatever we're gonna do well when we're going there. This is uh again, this is back in the early eighties, probably like eight two, maybe a little bit maybe at eighty three or so. And guys that were around that time though that call our NBA totals were moving like crazy. I mean, and

it's not only moving like crazy. They were winning at an unbelievable clip. To say six is way underputting what they were winning. It had to be closer to like I mean, is there was like money in your pocket every day. These things were moving. Hey, We'd start at Artichokes and R. Choke had what he called the coconut line and what it was a total. Like let's say the total was two tens, you had the bet. But

I'll explain what that means in the second. So let's say the number was to ten, so it's artichokes you had the bet over to fourteen or under two oh six We had an eight point and you're laying eleven and ten both ways. And that's what he said. You had to be coconuts to be betting into this number. Now it makes perfect Yeah, yeah, not make buri good. So Arti Choke and coconuts. I don't know if that goes together, but if you want together, good for me

and roxy Uh so we got the coconut line. Now, like I said, some of these games would move seven, eight ten points. So even though you were taking four points kind of the worst bit off the opening number, it was still I mean, it puts four points two buckets, you know. So we were so we ranked down the artists so glad, and then on our way home we had games that were moving eight ten points. Well it's still worth it for us to go into Artichokes and bed into the coconut line. And he looked as, oh,

you guys, are you guys know what you're doing. No, man, you know, he's just thinking, look at these two bums coming. You know, we would bet it and uh, you know, obviously cut our presentage down a little bit, but not that much. We we still I mean, that was another

gravy train that we had going for us. And we're up to the lake and had to the you know, running back home, running back down down the hill to get the harder jokes by post time to bed into these numbers that we knew we weren't going to move all day. He didn't move to the number. He just felt like, no, but I got an eight point metal working for me. Plus is used, I'll just go with that, which I'd say in this day and age w probably be pretty good. But that day and age n all

that good. You knew what you were doing, and me and Rocks, he took pretty good advantage of it. That was a lot of fun. Geez. And And how quickly did it take you to realize, Like when you first saw that line, you must have been like, oh my god, this is terrible, but then you quickly figured out, oh, he never he never does anything with it. We could still get the best of this number, even because of the of the manner in which it moves all day long.

Even though he thinks he's he's killing people with this, Yeah, I didn't think as long, believe me. That's uh, maybe one or two trips to ARTI Chokes when we realize he doesn't moved the number. The number just sit there all dwyn. He would even tell you that, to tell you that himself. Yeah, I'm not going to the number. And the Art Chokes was kind of place. Like I said, we bet the first race in New York or whatever, and you know when we we'd go to the next

there next next week to catch our ticket. He didn't ring up your ticket and says, okay, page you know two you have in an envelope in the drawer? Yea ARTI choke Joe's in the coconut line. I don't even remember that story. That's how That's how many of these there are adventures in bed. Coming back on a numbers game at Visa the Sports Betting Network, Welcome back to

a numbers game with Jill Alexander. It is the numbers game once the game right here on Visa, the biggest Deess Information Network series Sex and Channel to OH four, Visa dot Com, the Visa app, foodbos linking game plus

is Kill Alexander, San Francisco. Chris Andrew's the author, of course, of then one Day forty years of book making in Nevada with story time telling some of the stories from days going by, specifically what we used to call adventures in bad bookmaking, which again those of us who weren't around you can only dream of what that must have been like. But you were smart enough to take advantage of it. I mean, it wasn't like everybody figured out these things, and you have another example of that. No,

it was. It was a hell of a great between right then, I gotta tell you. So here's another one. You know. So back in the day, um kids pay attention. We don't have cell phones or even beepers, nothing like that. So I was running from my uncle Jack. Yeah, I know, I was writing from uncle Jack. So he I stopped by, like on a Sunday morning. Let's say, you know, he give me, like he gave me quite a bit of money, and he'd say, okay, here's what I'm looking for, and

he give me a list. He said, don't bother calling me. If you see these numbers, just go bet them and then call me later. Tell me what I got, okay, And I take like whatever, you know, whatever they take, whatever the limit is, you can bet it, okay. So this one day. Then one day I go, I'm on my journeys. I go to stand, I go to sam Town. Now on my list. That that that day, and I think it was the I think it was the Monday night game. I'm not sure if we had some day

and I football then or I don't think we did. Anyways, Chargers are playing the Raiders. So he gave me Raiders minus two and a half or the Chargers plus four. So obviously the number was pretty much three tainted on everywhere. Wow. So I walk in. They got the Raiders minus two and alp. So I run up to the counter and you know, stand in the line everything else Sunday morning, and I think, give me the Chargers minus two and a half or five thousand. Okay, guy writes you taking

this guy? I kind of knew a little bit, so I I I get you know, I go and look, they don't change the number. I got all my uncle Jack. I said, well, I got to the Chargers the Raiders minus two and a half for five thousands. Said well, they move it. No, we'll go bet him again. So I go to the same guy. I go to the same guy. I'll go up to the front. So you know, I already bet you Chargers my third Raiders Raiders two and alf for five thousands. You didn't move and I'm

gonna bet it again. He says, Hey, they didn't move, but you're entitled to bet it again. I bet it again. I'm sitting there and they don't move it. They don't move it. They don't move it. I called my uncle Jack back. He says, did they move it? I say, no, as well, go bet him again. So I get back in line again. Go to the same guy laid the two and a half or five thousand, and you know what,

I tell him, I'm gonna move. I'm just gonna keep that. He's, well, they'll probably move it now, but they haven't moved it, so you're not doing anything wrong. You're fine. Okay. So I go and I look back and uh about the mintial ayres They did move it, not the three, not even the three and a half. They moved with the four. Called Jack back, and yeah, they finally moved it. And he could tell by my voice what they do. Did they move with the three and a half? I don't know.

They moved at the four. You're kidding, No, he says, We'll go take the four. Okay, what are you calling? Yeah, I run up. I just wanted to make sure, you know, I run up. I take the four again, like in the same window, same guy. You know, I take the four for fucking call my uncle Jack, I said, Because I'm good, go on to the next time. I'm I'm

ready where I want to be on that game? Okay, And like I said in a book, I even have to tell you the final chargers one and later on I had one of those guys working for me, and and he told me about that game in particular. You know, the guy was like just the ticket writer at Champs not at the time, and like the boss uh called him back and says, say, I want you guys to look at this game. This is how your book a game.

This is how your book a game. The show they had like, you know, a ton of action on both sides. You know, we can't lose that. We got ton action on both sides. Everything's perfect. My guy tells them not not. The Raiders win by three, because what are your talking? Love, The Raiders went by three and it ain't gonna be so good. But he puts in like the one if score, and oh my god, they were gonna lose a fortune

because I was the only guy that you know. And naturally that's exactly what a game, of course you did. Of course, that's three, of course being the most common results in an NFL game, or landing on a margin three. But so again, with all of these, I'm curious, when did you realize, like how how do you remember the preamble? Do you remember the talk before we were like, hey, like when this guy moves something he didn't just move it like that. He moves it massively, Like do you

remember that conversation? Like how was that figured out? Not at all, not at all. Because in my early days, my first move Flas Vegas. And now this I didn't even put this in the book, but I swear to God this is true. So I first moved to Las Vegas. So I mean I'm mustling around that. Yeah, I'm broke. I don't have any money, you know. So I run up to SAMs Times for the Monday night game and it's like about two or three in the afternoon. I didn't put this in the book. I absolutely should have

I put it. I go up to Samstimes was my mother. I was staying with my mother. She lived kind of towards that that side of town. Run up to Samstun's like two two or training accident, I walk in. I go to be the Monday and I can have a number I like on the board and I go to bed. But Gil like, I think I was betting forty four and win forty that was my unit at the time. And he comes right this guy, this guy the boss, because no, no, no, we're not taking any more action

on that game. We're booked perfectly. We're not taking any more action. Yeah, yeah, we're booked perfectly. I don't want to take any more action on that game. We're fun. Okay, point this is but this is the way the business was back then. You had some real some guys. How much time do we have left field? Cause I got another starving the same guy. Uh, we got ninety seconds left, so we may want to wait for this. Uh. You know, he was explaining to me the horses one time to

figure out the extension as well. The horse pays like, you know, twelve dollars, you know, and you take a bed, you know you have to. You know, it's this times two. It's a two dollar wages to practice too. You know, that's how you figure your extension. I said, why don't you take a bed amount times the odds times five? And he looked at me like I just taught him how to split the atom. He was like stun that. Oh this is the way you figure that out. Yeah

that's yeah. He was not the brightest bulb. What year again? Was this just for context? Uh? You know, wow, man, a different different era. Can you can you tell the uh? The hard to explain Super Bowl parlay story next, Can you do that for us? Sure? Sure, yeah, okay, okay, this one will require a little bit of explanation, I believe, But super Bowl Parlat's adventures in bad bookmaking coming up again? The name of the book, uh, then one day forty

years of bookmaking in Nevada. It is our friend Chris Andrews, who runs the South Going Hotel Casino sports book. That book available everywhere, including of course, at Amazon. Check that out. More stories coming up, bad bookmaking? Love that right here in the numbers game at Visa. You know, Alexander, It is Bill Alexander, and it is Chris Andrews kind enough

to spend another couple of hours with us. Uh, this morning part three of stree Time The Cold the version of the back to back to back to back version of story Time, Christie. This one requires a bit of extavation, but we're we're all ears. Let's hear it. Super Bowl parlays,

I believe, is what you call them. Okay, Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what year this was, but you know, whatever super Bowl was, the member was writing around pick them and I think the total was forty eight, So I'm not positive what year this was, but it's it's kind of a kind of a legendary story up in northern Novata. So this was Harris up at the Lake now between the Lake and Reno and the downtown Reno.

They ran their books completely independent of one another, So what what you found that one would not necessarily be what you found with the other one anyway, So I'll put the lake. They put out a parlay card for the Super Bowl and on it so it was every every quarter was like pick them on this parlay cards. There is no no advantage. Everybody has slight but not really much. But they had the totals on every quarter,

on both halves and for the game. So I'm not sure exactly what the totals were, but I'm pretty sure I know close. So the first quarter total was ten, second quarter total was fourteen, third quarter total was ten, fourth quarter total was fourteen. First half total was twenty four, second half total was twenty four, and the game total was Now all those numbers individually are the right numbers. And that they put out that card like that, and they thought, well, you know, we got the right numbers

on the parley card. We're fine. Now. After about a day or so after they put the card out. They started getting like just an inordinate amount of play on the card, and it just kept streaming and streaming and streaming in and finally somebody up there figured it out. If I bet over ten the first quarter, and I bet over ten over fourteen a second quarter, and I've bet over twenty four for the half, the first quarter comes over ten and the second quarter comes over fourteen,

then that half is definitely gonna come over twenty four. Conversely, get bet the other way. If you go under ten, the one under fourteen in the second, the first half is going to go under twenty four. So what you were doing, and then that's about the lowest denometer you could bet a two team or essentially and get paid for a three teamer. So two teamer pays what to five and a three teamer pays six to one. So

that was a hell of a bargain. That doesn't mean you have to win first first quarter, could go over, second quarter, could go under, and then you're gonna blow the party because it all has to line up. But you could do it for the game too. First half goes over twenty four, second half goes over twenty four. The game's gonna be over again. Conversely, the other way, you've got under twenty four for the first half, under twenty four for the second half. The game is going

to be under forty eight. And they were taking just so much money on this and really had no idea what they were doing. They didn't realize what was going on because they were looking at each number individually, and each number individually, like I said, was pretty pretty much the right number within maybe half a point or something like that, each quarter cojuicing ball, each quarter number, both halfs numbers, and the game total number. They were all

solid numbers. So I just gave you an example of a three teamer. But guys were betting, like, you know, up to a six teamer. He's bet first quarter over, second quarter over, third quarter of the fourth quarter over game over. You know what. That's a five team, you know, But I mean no, but okay, yeah, I'm sorry. They're throwing the halves too, you know, first quarter over, second quarter over half over. Yeah, so you could bet up

to like an eight teamer. I guess that right at sixth team whatever it is, they were putting together every combinating teamer you could figure out, yea, So just to be clear. And just to be clear, this didn't have to be a super Bowl. This could have been any game and it would have been a terrible bet to offer. Yeah, it would have been a terrible bet under any circumstances that happened to be the Super Bowl. So they were under like the false um what's the word, I mean,

you know, like they thought everything was fine. There's a word I'm looking for. I can't think of it right now. Uh, they were under the false impression that everything was just hunky dory. They were just they hit on this thing that was going to create so much action, and it was just so popular. They really struck bold with this thing, and we're doing so much business. And finally somebody, somebody figured it out. And I remember that the guy guy who I don't think he's still alive. He was a

very good writer. I wrote for the Reno Gazette Journal. Steve staid, And you know, Steve and I had a pretty good relationship. Remember Steve called me. He says, you know, he didn't understand. And it's one of those things where like, if you're not kind of in the business like we are, you could look at it and it's not it's not the easiest thing to understand unless you know. Probably most of our listeners, I would say, probably understand what I'm

talking about. But like, you know, Steve was a writer, you know, he wasn't really a better and like that, and he had me explained to him and then and again it was like like I explained them how to split the at him, like I was like, oh my god, he goes, you kid me data, and I he says, do you mind if I write that? I said, Steve,

I don't mind if you write it. Don't you my name, you know, just you know you talked to you know whoever howeveryone identified me, just fine, but don't use my name, and don't tell them you know what position I mean at the time. And don't you know, I'm gonna say. I think in the line I put in the book was the old thing is God looks after drunks and fools, and I would never choose the hair as people are

being drunks, and you know it's split out. It split out perfectly, you know, like first quarter went over, second quarter went under, so they blew that, you know, like first halfing. I'm just making this up, but I know it's split up. First half went over, second half went under, and you know the quarters nothing really aliged, you know, nothing really came in. So all these guys you had, way, way,

way the best of it. And like I said, if you gave guys like that, uh, that kind of uh, that kind of bargain that I mean, just you know, the monetary value of something like that is astronomical. Especially they were taking big acts and it being the Super Bowl, and they got they got lucky, and things did not correlate and they wound up pulling the card once. Once they figured out what was going on, they would up

taking the card off. But you know the other and it's kind of weird the way the lake was at the time up in Lake Tylo. And again it's a very different, yea, the whole industry is so much different. But there was like a pretty good wise guy community up at the lake and a lot of them were, you know, kind of make a limit of sports betting, um, you know, back in the day, you know, uh, Like you'll go over some of these stories here and see

it was not a very well run operation. In the book the Adventures and Bad Bookmaking, Haris themselves have the whole chapter to themselves because of some of the stupid things that they did. This was way up there, and I said, they they skated on this one. They they danced around all the numbers. And next year obviously they didn't have But I talked to one of the guys who was in there, and uh, the powers that be, the board of directors, the box that said, oh my god,

you guys did a great job. This, this is beautiful again next year, right, And they got no, no, you know, uh, you know, we decided no. And they didn't want to set up to how stupid they were they were all the boxes, how bright they were, how brilliant they were out that sort of thing. Yeah, Chris, because as you're telling this story, I did a little, just a little googling.

Could this have been the Super Bowl in January of night two, so after the one season, because that was the first Niners Bengal super Bowl in Pontiac, Michigan, where the total was forty eight and I believe the Niners were favored by one. Could that have been it sounds like your numbers, It sounds like it. I think, actually, um, yeah, that that very well could be it. And I think the Niners were. And by the way, I took Michael

Jack when he came up to visit me. We went up to the to the lake while he was there, and the Niners were pretty much one everywhere that would use googling right there. Well that was that was yeah, that was a que Yeah, and again everybody got it. Well, you know they we got this discussion yesterday talking about certain numbers and Nancy A Championship games. These numbers are not there's not a union, you know, it's not it's

not one number. But I remember taking Michael Jack. We took a ride up to the lake, and you know that they didn't know him or anything like that. They put him on for a hundred thousand on the Bengal plus four plus four on a game there was one and of course he didn't dash. The Niners beat him, you know, but five by the way, they won by five. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, one of those. But but I would say, yeah, they probably were thinking we are

the smartest bookmakers in the world, Jerry. You know, after between that parlay cards, putting my uncle on for a hundred thousand, probably the game if it were in fact, if it was in fact, that game the first quarter was nine or seven nothing. The Niners then outscored the Bengals thirteen to nothing in the second quarter for those who remember that game, so it was twenty to nothing at halftime. The Bengals outscored the nine Ers seven to

nothing in the third quarter. But here was the here's probably what saved her as if it was in fact this game, fourth quarter Cincinnati fourteen, nine or six, So that would have completely destroyed any correlated if if you know, anything correlated if people had included the fourth quarter. But yeah, so what was the line? God protects drunk drugs and fools, And I would never accuse Airs of being drunks. It's great,

just one of the great lives. By the way that I'm not sure that's the game, but it might be. It's right yet that it might be that, you know, uh, it's right there. Yeah, I couldn't swear to that with that be in that game. But that is what happened, and they got lucky. They skated, and I'm sure they were taking that they were the sharpest bookmakers as well. They I think they sold themselves to their bosses that they were the sharpest, but they knew that they screwed up. Yeah, yeah,

we're not gonna do this next year. We we thought about it. We're just not gonna do it to their bosses. Coming back. More adventures and bad bookmaking with the great Christie Andrews right here on a numbers game at Visa the Sports Betting Network. It's a numbers game with your host, Kill Alexander. You want those mutis to believe in our number two of the numbers game. Right here at Visa, the Vegas Stats and Information Network. Sorry to step on,

Charles Barkley, It's Kill Alexander from San Francisco, California. Quarantining. I hope you're quarantining with your loved ones. Hope it's all going well, are you. I hope everyone's staying safe. We're trying to, uh just give you some great stories from days gone by, as told by one of the great storytellers. I think this is the underrated part about you, Chrissie. If I may just roast you for is I cannot

really a roast but pay tribute to you. Um. Because a lot of people have good stories, a lot of people don't necessarily know how to tell those stories in an entertaining way that is your gift, sir, that is your talent. Yeah, thank you, I appreciate that. Yeah, thanks, thanks. You know, sometimes you need to work on it. Some guys are natural. I think I had to work on it a little bit. You you darn good at and we look forward to whatever it is, whatever else you're

going to produce book wise in the future. This is about then one day forty years of bookmaking in Nevada, which is available in all bookstores, and of course all from the old story time segments that we used to tell on the Beating the Book podcast that Chrissie used to come on and tell. After we would guess the line and then to sort of wrap it up, Chrissie would tell a story. Um, this of course is about it bookmaking. You were up in Lake Tahoe. You wanted

to stay at Lake Tahoe for the next one. Yeah, this was really my first foray into understanding this. I'll screwed up. Harras was particularly up at the lake. I shouldn't just pick on them. The other one. The other the Reno side was pretty bad too. But anyway, you know, Haros really back in those days, So this is like one really promoted themselves as being like in the papers and came out throughout the country because they had very

good connections with the media. That Harris Reno Tahoe opened the NFL line, I remember, like taking saw Bob Martin opened the line. Was my uncle Jack lying to me about this stuff. You know, remember asking Jack, what about anyway? See you out of your mind? Nobody cares what Harris opened the line and Bob opened the line. They're just get their names in the paper, okay, but yeah, they

certainly thought of themselves as big shots, you know. So anyway, I go up, you know, and I was living at Reno, so Jack made sure I had some money with me, and uh, you know, I to him one going to take drive up to like just you know, kind of get the landscape. And that's where I think, Okay, so it's calling when you get up there, give me the line,

but call him. And so with the Tuesday, so I got reading down the line opens you know, one Sunday night or Monday for most books, and by Tuesday there's not really that much booth and it's really pretty pretty solid line. So I go into Harris right down the line and I call him up. He says, yeah, because

I really don't see anything. But anyway, when I first went in there, you know, as I'm writing down the line, I go up to the guy and as far as I know, that guy was still there up until like even last year or so I go where I asked them. I said, well, what do you what do you take in the football? And he looks at me goes fifty. Okay, you know, so I called him uncle Jack. I give him the numbers because yeah, and I remember the game.

It was Baylor and it was taking things. They were like a like a thirteen point dog everywhere and they had fourteen and a half and uh and I you know some reason, he just really they got you know, you could take fourteen and AFL on Baylor. Yeah, he says, well go ben on Bailey. He says, yeah. He said, I don't. I don't need fifty thousand, but don't take twenty.

Give me twenty thousand on bailer. Okay. So I go into the bathroom, you know, going to a stall, but I have money like in my you know, I'm more in a sport code. I got money in my pockets. I was wearing at the time. I'd wear two pair of pants, like shorts under my jeans, you know, and then my shorts. I had money in my g you know, I just if I got robbed, and I hand them one, you know, five thousand dollar bundle. I mean, they're gonna

be happiest can be. And then I, you know, I get to I need to lose all the rest, you know, So I got anyway, I got money, and its under the long pants. Chris always a good look strategic though. Oh yeah, a real babe magnet. Let me tell you. Yeah. Yeah,

they were calling all of them that way. Yeah. So anyway, you know, I count out two and you stick at my jacket pocket and I so, you know, I go up to the counter and you know, I tell the guy, you know, whatever number is given me, you know number you know, one oh three was it's Gil Alexander Christie Andrews. Is a numbers game right here at Visa. Go ahead. So I go up to the counter and I said, you know, give me one oh three Baylor h plus the fourteen an effort for twenty two thousand. Guy comes

running out. The same guy just thought he said, whoa, well, what are you doing? What I said, Well, I'm making a bad, so we don't take that kind of money. Will you tell me? I just asked you five minutes ago, will you take He told me to take fifty thousand. I'm only bet you twenty. I just didn't know you were gonna bet that much. I said, why don't you just give me an answer? What do you think I'll take two thousand? I said, you know you told me fifty.

I'm betting you. You know twenty, So that's what you just told me. And you're taking only ten percent of that because well, you know you want it or not, it's two thousand. If you don't want to bet it, don't bet it. But it's two thousand. That's just your bet. And I said, you know you're making me look like a fool here because I said, I got twenty two thousand sitting on the counter, and uh, you know, the rooms full of people and they see me pull out

this money. I'm want to pull out this kind of money. If I didn't think you were gonna take the bet, and he told me you would take fifty thousand. Now you only take it too, because listen, I'm only taking to do you want an esport to your crist No, I don't want an esport to my call. I just want you to take the bet that you told me five minutes ago that you would take. That's what I want, is well, I'm not taking that. I didn't know you wanted to bet that much. Why why did you give

me that answer? You know? I mean, I didn't you know, I said it certainly wasn't a babe magnet or anything like that, you know, but I was dressed in a sport coat and you know thosen't you know I showered that morning. Whatever, I didn't exactly look like a bump, you know. And it just tell me what you want to be, what you wanted to take. And you had two thousands of fine bits, but but two thousands, but fine, when you told me you would take fifty, well yeah,

and like I said, I'd go up there periodically. And even the last time I was up there, that guy is still running the joint. So that's you know, that's the way Harris does things. And I always said he found a perfect place, he found the first perfect place to have a career in this industry, because uh, you know, last I looked and I don't know what the status was. But when I wrote the book. I think they were twenty two billion in the minus column, and you know,

declaring bankruptcy and everything else. And I mean this was a one time one of the great great companies into VAT and really throughout the world, and they just it was, you know, mismanaged, and uh, you know, I don't know that much about the entire industry that I can even comment on, but I do know how badly they mismanaged the sports book, and I would imagine that they missmanaged

quite a few other things throughout the company. But yeah, they were in uh you know, and they in Caesar's and uh you know, and I you know, the Eldorado wounded up my uh you know, big chunk of Caesar's and those those are my friends. I know the Corono families fairly well. So I hope they do well because I like the Crono family. I really do you know, of all the stories, yeah, of all the stories you tell,

that one is the most relatable. Two betters today who I don't know about post legalization and and and all those stories. And I don't even know if if the companies post legalization even claim Some of the European companies that have come into the country claim to take those kinds of bets, but at least pre legalization in the state of Nevada accepting you know, not not not the South Point, not the West Gate. But I'm talking about the CG technologies of the world, the William Hills of

the world. There have been numerous occasions, um where and I've talked about them on a numbers game. Other people have talked about their experiences where the claim is. And remember when CG came in to Las Vegas. At the time they were they were candid gaming. They have the claims, Oh, we're gonna take anything, anything you want. You come in, you take the bet, and then you realize that it was all a bunch of nonsense, that that wasn't the

case at all. Um. And there's you know, I told the story about Major League Baseball season win totals from a few years back. Oh yeah, we're doing all this stuff, and they took, you know, a nickel and made me feel bad. You and and now you can't bet anymore. We'll take a nickel on two of these and then don't come back here. So I mean that of all the stories you tell, that's the one that rings the most true, I think for modern day Betters. So they're like, oh,

this sounds familiar. So it's been going on forever basically, Yeah, I'm sure you know, when you get Cracked Burger on your show, I'm sure he would tell stories about this that happened, you know, a couple of weeks ago. They were very similar to what this is, you know, but

that was my first foray. But like I said, at the time, you know, Harris painted themselves like they were the leaders of the industry, and that's what the newspapers throughout the country had this profile of Hairs that they were this fantastic bookmaking an outfit that would take anything, and they were the biggest money you know, the biggest money outfit in the world. And it was just so far from the truth. It was ridiculous though. Yeah, but that was it. So we have we still have some

more time before the break, Mike, Yeah, play it. Play it's up, go ahead, Okay, Okay. So some of the other ones, you know, this is uh you know the uh. I got one that I want to tell, but that's gonna take more than just a few minutes. But you know, Harris, they just they you know, their future book was legendarily bad. So this was by the late eighties, you know, in the forty nine ers for winning Super Bowl after Super and they believe what the Niners killed us during the eighties.

Joe Montana and that team was just so great. I think I wrote that the guys are the guys leave in the Bay Area. They say, Okay, I'm in a bet like a dime on the Niners, and I'm gonna have a two parley Niners and over and that will pretty much pay for my trip. And then anything else I do is great. And you know what, they cast an awful lot of those bets. You know, So who killed you more Niners in the eighties or Patriots modern day? Oh no, not even close, even close, not even close,

not even close. Yeah, not even in the same breath, Yeah, not even close. They murder us, you know, because you gotta remember where we were. You know that San Francisco was just you know, right down the road, and yeah, and yeah, there's regional proximity. Plus you know, the world was just a lot different back then. We didn't have we had a pretty good wise guy group up in Reno.

But you know, the liquidity of the market, it's you know, there's only x amount of money that could be in the market at any one time, and these guys were pouring in from the Bay Area, you know, a pretty wealthy part of the country and like that, and why wouldn't they just keep betting them? They just bet it like crazy and win most of the time because we

have wise guys playing back the other way. But uh, you know, it wasn't enough to overcome the just you know, the general public that was you know, on the forty nine ers and usually on the over and like they usually cast you know. But but don't cry too much for the bookmakers. He only wound up okay. But like I said, they had the legendary they had the legendary dad uh future book the one year I went and

I just looked at the Future book. So they had, you know, the Niners like to win the Super Bowl. I think they were like honestly, like even money or something like. This is before the season started there, like even money or something like something ridiculous. And not only did they have them, they had them minus four and a half in the Super Bowl, which super bowls matters

won the Super Bowl. Uh, this would be like by then the late eighties, when you know Joe was really Joe was I still, for my money, the greatest quarterback that ever played. Uhoe was just tearing it up. They were minus they were even this and before the season. Like I said, we weren't halfway through and they were tearing it up before the season. There were even money

and minus moren't half in the Super Bowl. So if you're stupid enough to take them and even money and you had the latest four and a half in the Super Bowl. So that's just of anywhere. But my favorite, my favorite futures book story with Harris is the year a Rod left the Mariners and went to the Texas Rangers. Uh there's a huge flood of money went in on the Rangers to win the World Series, win the pen.

Remember the Mariners kill. I think he told me they win a hundred and sixteen games they without eight run I think that's correct. Or it was the year two thousand they won a hundred and sixteen games or two thousand or two the two thousand one Mariners a hundred sixteen games. Okay, so they're the Rangers are in the same division. Mariners won a hundred sixteen games. Whatever. The Rangers did I think they're right around five hundred day

or whatever. It was probably less than that. So so one point the Rangers, and I swear to God these numbers are true, because I look, they were fifty games fifty five, fifty games out of first, out of the first place Marriners behind the first place Marine. They had the Rangers three No. One to win the World Series. There fifty games out of first. And I finally went to you know, and I usually didn't because I think

I'm not a paid consultant. I'm not going to tell them what to do, but this one was so ridiculous. I finally had to say something, the guys, they're fifty games at the first play game through ead On, Well, we have a lot of money. If you have a lot of money on them, So what you kidding me? Three to one? Three when there's three millions of one to make the to win the World Series? Are you guys out of your mind? Long the last time you wrote abound them at three to one, I don't know,

you know, uh, you guys are so ridiculous. This is such a joke, and they were. They were the biggest joke. And how they ever got that sort of publicity. Uh, it just shows you what the media can do for right connection, because they did they had good media connections in In Harra's defense, the Rangers only finished forty three out, so you never know, they trimmed that lead, they made a run, right you never know? Um you, I don't know if you wanted to tell this here, but did

you want to tell the coin flip thing? Because I think that just gives an indication. It's sort of a good segue from what you just talked about of just how people are willing to bet anything, period. Yeah, that was one that's you know. I had this as a separate section, but my editor put it in as bad bookmaking. I guess, not that I looked back, it really does belong to But guys, for years during the Super Bowl they would ask me, uh, we got the coin flip?

Could we got the coin from? And I would say, know, why would you bet me the coin flix? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard in my life. Is that the absolute definition of a random outcome? Why would you go bet your buddy? Go take a corner out of your pocket and flip it and uh, you know, heads one guy wins, tails, the other guy wins. Why you know, if I start booking, I'm not gonna book at it even money, I'm gonna make you pay juice. We want

to bet the coin flip one. So finally, after a couple of years, I relented, I said, Okay, if people are that stupid to bet the point flip and calmiva, and even at this out point, we always pride ourselves we have the tightest grattles on any lines. I want to give the biggest break to the better as we can. But forget if you're that stupid to betting coin to them. I'm gonna use a forty line minus twenty on heads, minus twenty on tails. And the people that stupid to

bet it let him bet it. Well, don't you know? I did so much business like and I remember one guy even betting me five thousand, and of course he won, but even at the tightest I think he was five thousand on heads. And I remember the one guy working. Should I move it? No, ri No, don't move you out of your mind? Should I move it? Should I move it? No? Cheez? You know my god? Yeah. So anyway, obviously after that I started booking a corn flip. But

I think I used like minus. I don't know, I'm might have started a minus one oh five each way mine and I think last year at the south point of minus one oh two each way, something like that. But I mean that to me show and I think I quote h Mankin, did you never go broke? Underestimating the I can't quote him exactly. The something of the American public. It's not a complimentary, it's you know, it leaps to mind, and this is nothing intelligent, Yes, of

the of the American public? Was it at the time? I believe, Uh, this has nothing to do with your stories. But this just sort of jogs in my head now. I mentioned last week. I think I mentioned it to Rufus. I may have mentioned it to you also, Bookmaker Offshore. Uh. And this is not poker. This doesn't include poker, this doesn't include other sites like Chris. I'm just talking about

the Bookmaker site on non poker. So we're talking table tennis and you know, e sports and random stuff, random soccer from corners of the Earth, random horse racing, I mean, the most obscure things. And I mentioned last week. I it I misspoke. Last week I said they were doing a hundred twenty five thousand. This is two Saturdays ago, so nine days ago they did I was wrong. They did two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in handle on all of those random sports on the one day on

that website, not including poker. So if you if you think about like, people will bet like news flash breaking news here spoiler alert on the show, people given a chance to bet, will bet on anything. This weekend now, this past weekend, Chrissy, just to sort of play on the coin flip thing, they were running, uh, simulations of Madden Football games. So we're talking about Madden NFL. They

all grew up on. They were running simulations. They would just give a Twitch account to people, you know, to log in and they would run these simulations of games. Do you know how much they were doing on on each one of those games that they ran on average thirty thousand dollars handle thirty thousand and a hand doll which you know isn't a lot of money in the world of football, but on fake football, you know, just

so people are just betting. I mean, if you don't, if you think that the world has betting, it's just not and that you know the oh no, these books are gonna, you know, reports of their demise or premature, let's put it that way. Um. I don't know what it was about your coin flip that made me think about these things, but it's just that people will bet on anything. It's incredible. It is incredible. I talked to Nick Bogdanovich and uh, I don't I'm not going to

repeat the numbers, you know. And but they're betting pretty strong on Russian and Ukrainian ping pong ping pong, you know, and I actual is this from America? Yeah? This is the America that I mean, come on, really only cow. Yeah, people are betting world what the world? We live in? Ten player ping pong parlays. I think they had a fifty dollar ping pong parlay where someone been all the favorites that cashed for almost ten k. I mean, it's just incredible. Um, but uh yeah, I mean those those

Harris stories are legendary. And again they all appear in the book. Uh then one day, forty years of bookmaking in Nevada, it's told by Chrissie Andrews. Of course we actually got to sit down and write it, so it was obviously not an audio form, but he actually got to do it at a different medium. There are pictures were running some of those on the screen a Visa dot Com and the Visa app. There's a picture of you with the late great Uh, your late great uncle Jack.

That's probably featured in the montages that were showing. But like Roxy, pictures of Roxy looking like he's in Bachman Turner Overdrive. Uh. In the middle of the book obviously pictures of you full beard uh and mustaches your younger days. Uh. It's a great book and I hope folks picking up at Amazon and wherever books are sold. We got more stories coming up, and yes, we may even have Chris's famous horse racing story maybe here by the end of

the show. More adventures in bad book making coming up. I leave. We have some strike game stories scap games on a numbers game at Visa on the way, Welcome back to a numbers game with Jill, Alexander back on a numbers game here at Visa, Kill Alexander and San Francisco Chris Andrews at his home in Las Vegas, Nevada. It's all brought to you by the bet MGMP uh. Telling stories from back in the day. More adventures in

bed bookmaking. Is this still the hair is edition, Chrissie. Yeah, we've got a few more hairs that we get throughout there. These are a little shorter, but uh, you know, one I'm not sure an exact year. This was in the nineties at some point, but they always had their book in the main floor of the casino and they were

moving it downstairs. And you know, we've heard because a lot of the construction guys who were building it out, they would come over the COLTIV afterwards and you know, make their bets and you know, have a beer or whatever. So a lot of us were telling a lot of them were telling us, Uh, it really looks good. They've been a great ab it's beautiful bar in there with all sorts of micro bruise and imported beers and have a great snack bar. And they really did a terrific job.

It's just a well designed, beautiful sports book. And I don't know why they abandoned that. I mean, who knows, It's just another one of those uh decisions a company like that would make, you know. But anyway, they had it there and I remember they had like the opening day and you know, a big party or derves you know, free drinks, all that other stuff. The media is invited. It's not like they invited me. But I was going anyway, you know. So uh so there was like an escalator

down into that portion of the casino. Like I said, it was like kind of like the basement. But they you know, their their overall business the time is going pretty good. But they wanted to make as much room in the casino floor as they could, and they made this downstairs. So you go down the escalator and like I said, all we've been hearing was how beautiful was and it really was beautiful. You're good. I'm the escalator. The banner across the sports book my right hand to God.

This is the truth. The banner across the sports book, as you come in, not welcome. The hair is not welcome to our new sports book. Come and enjoy nothing like that the banner. We reserve the right to refuse any wager. They're grand opening and they're welcome. Awesome. What do you say to that? That's great? Oh, this sunds

like a friendly place. Of course, you have the right that you mean, if Warren Bucker comes in and anyone's ten knowing on the Dogger game, that I you're not gonna take that kind of joining it that that's the thing they have across the top. We reserve their hate to refuse any ways, just shows the management of that. But that didn't last long. After a few days, finally somebody says, no, you gotta take that thing down. That's just ridiculous. You know. It's where where was that against specific?

Where was that Chris those in Harris Reno. Uh, like I said, they had their Yeah, they had their sports book on the main floor for many years, and and their business was born pretty good at the time, and they wanted to create more casinos based on the main force, so they moved that down stairs. Yeah. So one more quick hairs story. I know, we don't have a lot of a lot of time, but they'd come in every day and copy the lines off of me at the Caldeia.

I mean just they sit there right there, the guy that hair and uniform on and you know, right down when I put on my board. Yeah, I mean it

was every day. We would laugh about it. You know. Anyway, this was you know, in the eighties and the Montreal Canadiens at the time, we're the best team in hockey and uh, and I tell people today, you know, games were and we had ties back in the NHL at the time, So he's a game a half that was very legitimate line because there's a lot of there's a lot of games that did ended up and tie, so the half of it, it was a real number. So anyway,

you know, hockey betting still wasn't all that popular. We're putting them all up, and I remember so like we'd open up and I, you know, we've had like a little flurry in the beginning, and this and that, and usually taking me about half an hour to get through that first little flurry. And then I'd go out with my chart and check the board and make sure the lines were all right. So I remember going out and I told my guys and hey, you know, you got

the wrong line on the Canadians game. It's supposed to be minus one and a half minus of dollar sixty five, and that's a pretty big savor. Minus one and a half minus one sixty five, I said, he got, but he had it a half sixty five, which even then is pretty decent sized faith at all. And he says, oh, yeah, I screwed up because I wrote it down right. I guess, but I just put it down on the board wrong. It was okay because you know we had you know, our boards were kind of weird. So anyway, runs up

makes it one up. So anyway, now it's about maybe eleven so and you know, the busy part of the mornings over, so I'm gonna go over hair is just to see what they got and maybe make a bet or two, you know. So I walk in and the guy I could still remember, I don't want to say his name, but he looked at me, like with this venomous look in his eye, and he runs up to like he's got the Canadians lineup and your rape is

it real fact? And like looks at me like you scum back holding on for every day all the rest of this we'll get back to it on a numbers game at Visa story time with Chris Andrews. Welcome back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander. You were so rudely interrupted at the end of this last story. So you go into the hair. You go into the hairs,

and the guy's mad at you. Yeah, just I can just I can still see him just glaring at me, like, oh you know, I mean I had no interest in betting the Canadians and probably would have been still I have six five, But that wasn't my intention that I know. And I just looked, what are you in there copying my line for every day? Go get your own line service, you know, I'm getting them from my uncle Jack and Roxy. I had to pay those guys. Are you're gonna pay

your guys? You know? So he copies your lines? That is mad at you because you bed into his lines basically that we're missing that, we're miss copy that. Yeah, he copied it wrong, and obviously a lot of guys in town went in and bet him. You know, he thought like I was setting him up, you know. Yeah, you know I should I should have done in a way more than I did, But I did, you know, all right? Chrisy nineteen eight seven. I actually referenced this year with Brent the other day when Brent was kind

enough to come on the show. For those who don't remember, it was a year where the NFL went on strike, but the owners drew a hard line and they said we're bringing in we're bringing in scab teams, we're bringing in replacement airs. And for three weeks, three weeks that counted. Um, the National Football League played on mid season and then teams started to cross the picket line. The Cowboys, Dandy White played until the door set played and Randy White I think even and then the Redskins did as a

as a group after the third week. So then the strike kind of ended at that point. But all those games counted in the standings. But you have a story about booking those games. What must that have been like, Well, there was, uh, you know, when again you gotta go back in there's no internet, you know, no cell phones might have just been getting started at that time, you know, so there was the communication in the world was completely different.

Guys that they wouldn't understand that, but there was no nothing, you know. I mean you had to go buy newspapers and we had a U p I wire in our book, but but even that, it was just wasn't anywhere near the same thing anyway. So the scab games, you know, they're gonna play scab games like you know this Sunday, Okay, So now, uh, you know, we're gonna want to take the action on it, but we don't know what the

hell we're doing, you know. So my one friend and he's the guy that helped me design the pleaser card. Remember he invented the pleaser I've been at the Pleaser card and he helped me design it. So guys, anybody listening arena know exactly what it is. I'm not going to mention his name. He's kind of disappeared, and I think he would prefer to remain anonymous. But I'd love to give him the credit if he ever wanted it. He was really one of my good guy and super

super sharp. Anyway, he came in and he comes running over to me, you know, because we were pretty good friends. We've been at dinner and all that other stuff. You know, Chris, Chris, look at these bets I got, and he's showing me from Harra's he got. You know, I'm just making this up. You know the you know, the Saints plus seven, the Seahawks plus four and a half, you know, the Packers plus eight, And I'm looking, said, where the hell did

you get these? Karen's has things on the board right now, and I mean, Gil, I mean, there's there's nothing I could say about this except they completely pulled it out of their butt completely. They just thick and made it up from deep inside. Yeah, and figured, hey, we're Harrah's. We could do whatever we want. I mean, the rest of the world will follow us and copy us. Well, I run over and they're taking like a dime a game, and I got he gave me all his plays, and

and I bet, like everyone of what's there? You know? Back now, I don't know if there's fourteen or fifteen games. And there was fourteen, and I must made like ten plays, Okay, I must made like ten or eleven play something like that. And and I go over and I call my friend Johnny Felinski, who is uh, you know, really like a double sharp guy analyzing football, particularly players like he knew the valueable player. That goes back to my USFL days. We murdered him also because of Johnny knew how to

valuate players. Make a number. So I called Johnny up and I said, Johnny, if I gave you these games, these strike games, what do you make the number? He says, well, you can't make a number. Nobody knows who playing. I said, okay, gun of your head have to make a number. Well, you know, I don't know home team too. I said, yeah, I would make the exact same thing. So I didn't read off like every bet that I had. And he says, you're kidding me. Where did you get these? I says,

all Paris put him on the board. I said, not that, the Harris put him on the board. And I'm telling you what I but I didn't even get the best of the number. This under guy got the best of it. I'm in after him, because oh my god, you gotta be kidding me. Now, this was like his day's off. This was like Monday. I think John was off like Monday and Tuesday. He said. I said, Johnny, get to work, find all you can on rosters, and let's try to find you know, what kind of numbers we could put

out about, you know, about these games. So Hay went to work and it took him a couple of days to find all these rosters. But eventually you could. And again we didn't have the internet. You had to you know, we had the U p I machine in our in our office, and we could get some out of town newspapers and whatever. And remember that first week, you're John, You're the nineteen parlay. That's how bad these numbers were.

They like ten beads and I think that might have been nine and one, and John Mann's did not bet one loser I had, you know, he had, and I gave him a piece of everything that I had, you know, and we just murdered. And it was one of those deals where you know, they just decided and there was no rhyme or reason for any number they put on the board. They just totally made them up and threw

them up there. I mean, really, it would be like you and I make the numbers on Ukrainian ping pong, you know, we have no idea, and they put them up until cashing on him and vable. But that was this. Yeah, this was even worse than say, trying to book the XFL this year. The XFL. You even had some idea of who these players were, but these guys were off the street in seven. By the way, when you asked fourteen or fifteen, I thought you meant the number of

games played in the season, which was fifteen. You were referring to the number of games per week. Did they do this for all three weeks of the of the scab games, of the replacement player games? Oh no, they got murdered at first. That was the end of that. They were having, Like, yeah, week one was it? You know? That was it? That was that gravy train didn't last long, especially with me and the sudden one of the other guy in particular, it's like just so sharp, you know

after he bet him that I bet him. I mean once again, cooler heads prevailed, but mad until we took I'm pretty serious to me. You had a nine team or that first week? Jeez, yeah, this was this was not Land three Jones playing quarterback or Cardale Jones that you didn't know these guys names at all. Uh, we'll come back. Could you tell the horse racing story? There's nothing to do with Harris. This is one of the classics, Chrissie's horse racing story and tribute to one of the

few sports that's still going on these days. Um, this is a legendary story, uh, which has twists and turns, just phenomenal on the way story time for Chrissie on a numbers game right here, bigestativation, Welcome back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander. It is a numbers game in this time of very few sports, let's put it that way that are going on these days. Always nice to hear these stories which are just and we were just talking about this off air. It's just so hard

do believe that these stories all happened. But yet Chrissie, you were there for all of them. Uh, and you've got a great one here, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were there. Nothing to do it here is I'm sorry? Good No, I was saying, and we were also saying, how you know, maybe not enough is made of the fact, which is you you said it earlier, which is it's because it

was a burgeoning industry at the time. It was new, it was fledgling, and it just wasn't the and I used the word science affair, but it's not a science. But but it wasn't as tried and true as it is today. You didn't have thirty forty years under your belt, or the industry didn't. And many times people, just as they are in many industries, arrogant, right, Oh we know how to do this. This can't be that difficult until

they lose their shirts. And it's just fascinating, you know, the microcosm of many under this industries as well reflection of many other fledgling industries in this country. That's what it was like then. Yeah, and even you know, you go up to the uh, the board ruler, upper management. Oh this is easy, isn't the piece of cake? You know, it would be just like goy we put out slot machines a deal twenty one and you know, no, it's a whole different thing in our racket, a whole different thing.

So anyway, let me tell the horror racing story. So I had a guy who was a good friend of mine and uh, and we we got to be pretty close, and he was hate been a little bit of sports, but he was mostly a horse guy, and he was one of those guys he wasn't really all that concerned about reading the racing form, but he had a lot of information from the track, and he had the information from tracks all over the country, but he was particularly strong in northern California, and he owned he owned a

couple of horses. He bred some horses, and so he had great information, great juice at the track, etcetera, etcetera. So anyway, we were getting these horror says occasionally, and he had he called him the kids, because the kids give me these two horses today, kids gave me and the kids were like the assist top assistant to one of the leading trainers in Northern California. Again, I don't want to mention the guy's name, but not the leading trainer, but you know in the top like two or three,

four maybe trainers in northern California. And when they would give us a horse, I mean it was you know, it was gold. And you know they weren't giving us eight to five shots or anything like. Yeah, they'd give us some pretty live things. So anyway, I'm sitting at home one day and he calls me up. I'm in a reno and he calls me up. He says, listen, I think we've got something going tomorrow. Can you make it down to Bay Meadows? And right away I said, well, yeah, sure.

You know, before I can't even ask him what is it we got going? What is it? And I knew if he told me that he was you know, I knew it was something he's I said, oh yeah, sure, yeah, what is it? He says, well, there's half a million dollar carry over on the Pick six And the kids told me the favorites in five of the six races can't win. Your kid makes it. No, that's what they called they can't win. Well, okay, you know, he says, can you meet me eleven o'clock at this one restaurant,

and I knew I had actually been there before. It was like kind of like a kind of like a wise guy hang out on Camino Real in uh In Saint Matteo. Can you meet me there at eleven o'clock. Well, that means I had to at least like really early in the morning. So I left early in the morning. Uh. This was in I think July of eighty four might have been. It might have been August of eighty four. And I'll tell you in the second how I know that exact date. So anyway, I had my wife and

my young son, my infant son, and my wife. She wants to come with me, which is fine because her mother lived in uh in San Jose and so you know, and and her her her father, her stepfather, so like my father in law, he was another horse player too. So I asked this friend, that's just kind I bring him. He said, yeah, yeah, because we're gonna look to make as big a ticket as we can make. We want to try to, you know, nail down this pick six. Okay,

so we all meet at this restaurant. You know, my wife and my son go off with her mother and my father in lost days with me. So like, you know, Gil, I'm twenty eight years old. I put in a thousand dollars. That an absolute fortune to me, you know. But I knew this guy if he told us we had something, I knew what it was. I think my father in law put in you know, five dred or a thousand, and I knew another guy put in a thousand. Anyway,

there's a couple, there's a couple of his friends there too. Altogether, we put in a ten thousand dollar ticket to play this pick six. And we're sitting there and you know, and we've got the two kids with us, and we're going through the racing for him, you know, raced by racing, and I'm looking, Oh my god, this horse can't win. He said, no, I'm coming. You just can't win. He's cripple. We can't win. And some of these horses were gonna be eight to five even money, you know, maybe even

odds on. And I'm looking at these can you know I'm coming. We're not even gonna put them on the pick six. They can't win, okay, you know, so we wind up we put together this ticket, you know, a ten thousand dollar ticket, we put it in, you know, they give us a couple other horses, and you know, anyway, so now they get started, you know, and it was one of those days and having like pretty good day even without this. So get to the first race of

the pick six and race those off. It's like, I think the first race was like a thirty dollar horse, we have them. Next race, twenty horse. We got him. Third like another twenty dollar horse we got fourth race was like a ten dollar horse. We got him. Fifth race like another ten or twenty whatever it was. I mean, all big numbers. We have every one of them, like I said it. And the reason I remember it was well, I'll get back to that in a second. But anyway, so now now you know we got them. Now this

was back in the day. They didn't give you like the will pays and all that other stuff. They didn't tell you anything like that, you know. But since this guy had juice at the track, you know, he had owner and breeder privileges, he calls up to the office and finds out, well, you know, what are we looking at for this ticket. Well, now with a carry over and everything, it was up to seven hundred and fifty thousand and there's one ticket live. It's ours one ticket line.

So we're going into this last race. Now, this was the one race where the kids told us the favorite is probably gonna win. Now, for horse racing fans out there, it's a kind of race you never see in America and North America at this time, and you you almost never saw it back in nine four. Uh you know, it's a mile in a quarter on the dirt. Claimers

really cheap horses one a mile a quarter. So anyway, so he made a couple a couple of like wind bets and exact as you know, bending against this horse, just to kind of heads our bests a little bit. And so we go down. He says, come with me, let's go down to the paddocks. Like I said, he had paddock privilege isn't in it. So we go into the paddock. We put together, we we we each pitched in a couple of bucks. We've got to take a five to win on our horse. On our horse, he's

gonna go give it to the jockey. I don't want them to seeing me, but go give this to the jockey. And I forget the guy's name. I wish I could remember. I go and he looks at me after heir, this is for you. He takes the ticket. He looked something, and I said, yeah, this is for you. We need you to win, and he like tucks it in his pants. Okay, I mean five months, and that's that's pretty big scorn for those jobs. You know, they're singing for their suffer

every day. You know that's that, you know. So besides winning the race, he would get this extra nickel in a win. My horse goes off seven or five total pieces of crap in this race, like I said, going Tom on a corner and I forget the exact fractions, but he busts this horse out of the gate, and I think the first quarter they go like twenty three and something. I think at the half he's like he's like going about in about forty maybe forty six, you

know something like that. Like I look over to my body and I said, he's gone faster than Swell in the derby. Now that's how I know it was four because my money on Swale I made four. Kentucky They're had a big swell. Probably this guy gave it to me, uh to win the Kentry Derby. And I and I look over and I mean he's like white, It's like a piece of paper. I mean he is, he's what like he knows and like that. He knows that, uh, he knows the horses as good as anybody. And he

knows right there we're dead. You can't get a horse to keep those kind of practice. A friend of ours is texting us, we got he just can't keep those kind of practice. And so he goes to half and like I think it's like forty six and something, you know, and they're, oh my god, and I like, sit back in my seat. Now by this time, my what now? My ex wife she's coming. She's like jumping up and scream and jumping up and screaming, and I'm you know, and she looks at me. Would you quit? Would you

quit being such a downer and we're gonna win. I'm no, no, we aren't. No quit being like that quick, being like that. Well you know, yeah, okay, well believe what it tes. And my guy he hasn't moved. He knows we're dead. But I mean, these are other pieces of crap. And I mean this works about like ten links on the field. So they around the turn and turn for home. He's shortened and stride so bad. It's unbelievable that here comes mart and you gotta marry every other horse in this

race is a total piece of crap too. So now we get to about the sixteen full and now I can't resist it because he's still winning, and I jump up, come on, come on, come on, and don't you know we're getting nailed in the final. And I just sit back and oh my god, I blew. I kept in my head, I was thinking it was a hundred dollars, but it was more like seventy five thousand. Once I went back and looked, I blew. Seventy five thousand and twenty eight years old would have been in caps flute

force with me. But like I said, I looked back, you know, we got divorced like that long a you don't wind up with all the money anyway. Up anyway, I don't know what my favorite part of that is. That might have been the punch line. But the other but that I love is at the very beginning, when you're like, I'm all in, oh, what are we doing? That's the other parts going up. Chrissie, We love you,

Thank you so much. Story Time with Chris and then one day, forty years of the book making, I ment that I hope you will enjoyous