Beating The Book: Story Time with Chris Andrews, Part 2

stories attribute to his book. Then one day four years of book making, a Nevada story time with Chris Andrews exclusively on the Beating the Book Podcast. Enjoy It's a numbers game with your host, Gil Alexander. You want Judios to believe in a a limit, Yes he is. It is a numbers game right here at Visa in the Vegas Stats and Information Network. Gil Alexander even have the uh the T shirt rocket a day on that one of those idiots who believes in analytics today, not much

about analytics at all, in fact, nothing at all. It is part duh of Christie Andrews on the show Telling Stories. As promised on Monday, we did a whole show on Monday. Um, it's not b sides. It's not a step down for you, Stevie Wonder Fan, Stevie Wonder fans out there. It's like going from songs in the Key of Life to fulfilling Us first finale. If you're Billy Joel fan from the Stranger to fifty second Street, it's not a drop down at all. It's just another grade of another set of

grade stories. Um and then tomorrow on the show Just looking Ahead, we got Bill Crackenburger, Mike Palm, Todd Wishnet, Brent Musburger later in the week. But let's do it. It's from his book Forty Years of Bookmaking in Nevada. It's called Then one Day, forty Years of Bookmaking in Nevada. We welcome back in our friend, the director of the South Point Hotel Casino sports book, My Mish Book of Christie Andrews. Good morning to you, Christie. How you doing? Oh?

Hanging in there gilt stand? He Actually, I'm not that bad. I told you yesterday. I make the great prisoner. I'm okay, you know, just sitting here by myself. I'm sorry. If you committed a crime and they sent you to jail, they'd be like we can't break this guy. He's so comfortable. Yeah, just give me my books and the internet. And you know, I'm an occasional movie and I'm fine. I'm okay, man, they cannot break you. Uh, listen, we are lucky to have you. By the way, you get to hear Roxy

from Thailand yesterday and Rufus, who had tested positively. You know, I well, I had texted Rufus the other day just to see how he's doing. Sounds like he's doing okay. I slept in yesterday and he gets against Lusen yesterday show. But you know, come my favorite guys in this business. And yeah, we're all worried about Rufus, you know, jeez. You know, he actually came down with the disease, but it sounds like he got through it. Okay, Yeah, he's good,

He's all good. We're happy to have him, only happy to hear from him. All right, Chrissie again. Then one day, forty years of book making in Nevada wherever books are sold at is available. You told some great stories on Monday. Uh these are ones that aren't as told well, someoneret as told as often. But you got a great one to start with this morning. Yeah, you tease this one the other days. I feel we might as well start with this one, the Max story. And uh, this was

when I first started to count Neva. So I was young. This is one. I was twenty five years old, and you know, when I look back, you know, it's probably a little bit of a mark, you know, running running a sports book, runner race book, and you know it's been around a little bit. But I'm only twenty five, you know, so probably you know, guys were definitely taking shots at me with a different propositions, just all kinds

of stuff, you know. And one of them was this guy mat And he was a horse player, pretty pretty big horse player. He come in every day and he just start talking. I mean, we got to know each other a little bit after like it seemed like a couple of days or really a week something like that. Told me he was a hit man for Meyer Landsky. Guys out there don't know. Lanski was probably the number one Jewish mob guy in the world, and he had connections. A matter of fact, if you look at the if

you watch Godfather to Hyman, Ross is modeled greatly after Landsky. Uh. And so they started telling me this stuff and I'm like, why would he tell me this? You know? And Nancy told a couple of people that's one of those deals where I didn't know whether believing or not, whether it was short. There's definitely an edge to this guy here. There was something going on there. And I knew a guy, you know, an older guy is no longer with us, but a much older guy who at one point in

time they had been a bookmaker for Meyer. Landsky was connected with Landsky, and uh, and I called him up and I explained him the situation, and uh, you know, and he listened. He said, wrong, the guy doesn't ring a bell. But this guy had been away from Landsky for at this point in time twenty thirty years at least, probably more than that, because it doesn't ring a bell. I don't know, but it sounds like the kind of guy Meyer would use. And I remember the last words

before we hung up, be careful, okay. So anyway, things happened, and you know, he started, yeah, like courting me, I guess in some ways. We went out to dinner maybe once or twice, and head lunched and we would have a cup of coffee together, and uh, you know, it just went on and it became I would say, friend Lee, even if we weren't friends, we're certainly friend leave and uh so at one point in time he was I guess he was more bad in the horse and says,

you know, he needed eight hundred dollars. I don't know where he come up with that figure. Can I help him out? He says, I got some money coming in the next day or two, and I'll get it back to you when I get it. And I have eight hundred bucks, and you know, I mean I had it, but you know, at the time, I was a pretty young kid. Eight hundred bucks was a lot of money to me. But I said, yeah, sure, and I gave it to him, and what do you know, the next day,

it just he disappears. Now when when he when we were together, we both kind of like the same girl, and he went after her hard and she she picked me, And there was like, can we listen, he's as human as anybody. Of course, yes, So there's like a little bit of resentment towards me because I wanted to marry this young lady. But you know, if I'm buried as this girl now, we weren't very good at the time, you know, but you know, we were definitely an item.

We were to get it exanially. He disappeared. I not that surprised, just a little bit maybe, but you know, it's slightly surprised that he just vanished one day and I didn't see him. This probably went on for about maybe you know, about a month or so later, maybe six weeks later. I asked, this young lady was my first wife, sharing I said, yeah, you know, we had a day office. Let's go down to the track, Let's

go to Bay Meadows, um, you know, for the day. So, you know, we got down of Bay Meadows, we're in the turf club and uh, as we're sitting around in the turf club, um, around the corner, here comes Max. Now I've been around enough to know that, you know, like, you don't want to challenge these guys, but you don't want to let them step all over you, because if you do let him step all over you, they don't really step all over you. So I see him, and I said, I gotta say something to him, and say Max,

how you're doing. I'm still I wish Aaron, you know. And I just looked at her and said, go take a walk, you know, and I'm thinking to myself, I don't know what's going to happen here. I mean, I was definitely scared, and I'm thinking, the last thing I need is for him to kill her. That's a laugh. And if he doesn't kill me, I really don't even want her there to witness it, because who knows what would happen after that. But I was no doubt about it.

I was scared, you know, And I forgotten about the part I had forgotten the part that I had forgotten the part Chrissie that he actually liked her at one point that I that detail. I had to be liked her a lot. Yeah, Yeah, he liked her a lot. So that was That was another thing that again makes me, let's just say tad uneasy to put an um. So uh anyway, I says, yeah, so she likes she leaves, she goes, you know, and I said, you know, where are you? Then I said, well I got shot. Now

you know a little backstory. Max was like a little powerful guy, and he was one of those guys you know, I swear to gun and all these years I've never seen any of the kid gain and lose weight like him. He'd go on the latest crash diets and he lose like pounds, like in a matter of a couple of weeks, and then like within days it seems like he gained it all back. It was one of those guys always had like a weight problems, and he was a little guy.

He's only about five foot four, I'd say, you know, so it really show up on So I asked him, worry what I got shot? Really? Be goes, yeah, I've been in the hospital for a month. It's really okay. I said, well, congratulations. They looked at me, says, well, what are you talking about. I said, well, they're the first guy in history that went in the hospital for a month in game thirty pounds and he started laughing. So at that point he started laughing at him, like okay,

I don't think you're gonna kill me. So so anyway, like I said, we talked with him, wh I said, you know, Max, come on, man, you know I treated you pretty good. You know, am I gonna am I gonna see that eight hundred bucks or what? He says, Well, you know it's a kid. You know you really did

treat me well. Uh you know, you know we were friends and uh, you know I'm I'm sorry I did this, and uh, you know, I think, uh, you know, I'll be up to Reno in the next you know, a couple of days, a couple of weeks, and I'll make it good. He said, I don't have it on me now, but it was in the turf club betting no horses, you know, but I don't have it on me now. It's okay, that's all right. I mean, how far is

I gonna push this, you know? So uh So anyway, uh, you know, we we kind of shake hands, and I'm thinking, okay, I got through that one, that that wasn't so bad. At least I kind of made my statement. And let's just say when I pouted myself down every night, I didn't even cool Hunter Bucks, so I had a feeling I wouldn't there see it. So anyway, uh, you know, time goes on. Uh and it's probably about a month or so later Nash see, I hadn't seen them. And

back in those days, this is the nine one. So back in those days, you know, guys don't realize, say we get the out of town papers. You know, there was no internet, there's nothing like that to try to get as many out of town papers as you could, uh and try to just read up on what was going on in the world of sports. And we know it was actually a good position. We've got to San

Francisco Chronicle every day. We also got the l a papers. Uh. You know, we get the Portland's and Seattle papers, which were dead two papers at this time, both very good, you know, k do we get a Utah paper. We got to Las Vegas papers nationally. So there's a guy who had great little news stand in downtown. You know. I didn't go in there every day, and the guy

was actually a better in mine. So I get all the papers every day, and usually with all those papers, I would just read the sports section and just throw the rest of the way. I didn't have time to

read everything else. So this one day, for some reason, I got to San Francisco Chronicle and I for whatever reason, I just started reading the whole paper and I get to the local sections of the local San Francisco Bay Area section, and on the front page there's a murder and a motel parking lot in sam matale I. Look, Max Kirshner was murdering somebody, put a shotgun to his neck, pulled the trigger. He died, I think on the way to the hospital or shortly after he got the hospital.

They declared him, said Jesus, you know, so there's definitely something going on with him. So that story, right next to that story, and a totally unrelated story, was a picture of Meyer Landskip, who was either being indicted or was in depositions or something like that over god knows what at that point in time, and I'm thinking to myself, there is no way this is a coincidence. Somebody at the paper knew something or suspected something. And and again

right then I started getting the creeps. Well, first of all, he was dead, and I listen, despite what happened and all that, I still kind of like the guy. You know. Whether it's foolish on my part, it easily could be, but I kind of liked the guy, you know, So

I read the story. You know, I mean, this is not how most people died, you know, you know, you're not going to your car at a motel and Santito and somebody comes up with a shotgun to your neck and pulls the trigger, and that's you know, there's something going on there. And then you have the Lancey story right next to it, and I'm thinking myself, you know, and to this day, I don't know how much of

it is true, how much he isn't. But Gil, I know you did some google work while we were on the air when I first told this story, and there are things like, I think on those tax returns he put you know, uh, mafia muscle man or it must be a mafia man or something like like it was that kind of a guy. I mean, he was a total nut, you know, and he wrote a couple of books.

I'm sorry, you'll go ahead, No, no, I'm saying the first time that you told this story on the podcast, the Beating the Book podcast, I was I was googling while towards the end of this story because I couldn't believe this story, and it got into like some microfiche images where that was what was revealed. We actually I actually did some here. First of all, before I even show this, we found um, how long after you had contact with him did this? Did you read this newspaper?

Was it a year? Was it at six months? Like? What was it? Do you have the newspaper right there? Well, we don't have the one that you're talking about, but here on January, and Kelly, you can throw this up January. Uh. This is from the San Francisco Examiner. And as you point out, this is sort of it's down on the front page. This is in the California section. I guess they used to have a California section of the San

Francisco Sunday Examiner. And the name of the pieces called boasting quote hit man, unquote, slain and san Mateo known for temper. That was the That was the title of the article. Yeah, known for temper. Would you like to be known for your temper? Uh? And next to it is an image of a book Joey Kills by Joey So all the while, Max, who was a hit man, also wrote books under the pseudonym Joey Um. And so

there's a there's a picture of that. By the way, part of this article reads, and it's really small on visa dot com and Visa app, but I'll read it. I'll just read a little section of it which says um Joey in quotes, because that's again what he wrote the books as was not the type of man to argue with except you were just you were just smack. Is two hundred and fifteen pounds on a five ft five inch frame were pure muscle. That there's the part

of joy. As his literary agent Richard Curtis of New York said, quote, he became so hostile when you sounded skeptical, it was better to believe him. Unquote. Uh. The comment was echoed by David Fisher, the man who helped Joey write his books. Uh. The New York freelance writer said he remembered, Uh, Joey. He remembered having dinner with Joey and with a few of his friends in Los Angeles. Fisher said one of his friends asked, Joey, what would you say if I told you I didn't believe you?

And Joey This is from the article here in the San Francisco Examiner again January, right after his death, Joey picked up a fork known as Joey, but this is actually Chriss Max. Here, Joey picked up a fork, leaned across the table and shoved it up against his friend's throat. I'd say to you say it again, Fisher quoted Joey. It's say by the way. The previous day, United Press International u p I, as those of a certain age will remember it. Uh. The dead man's brother, Morris Kirshner,

said he's surprised. He was surprised by the killing. Uh. Quote said he was not surprised by the killing. They actually have a mission here. Quote. I just figured his time was due, he said that. Imagine, I can't imagine you must have been what like after you read all this, weren't you sort of like it wasn't that chilling for you? Yeah?

And I think that when I told you the story the first time, I think I remember telling you a gun My heart is beating because I didn't tell that story to too many people over the years, you know, but I can feel my blood pressure rise, my pulse increase, and uh, you know, I was probably in a cold sweat the first time I told you that story on the podcast. Like I said, if he would have killed me that day when I was in Bay Meadows and psalm and you know, I don't want to, you know, confrontation,

it's not even a proper language, you know. But when I saw him that day, uh, I wouldn't have surprised you that much. I mean I was I was prepared, Like you know, I'm not sure what's gonna happen here, and I was very happy. Now the you know, Sharon was not my wife at that time. So this happened in January of eighty two, so I only met him like in June of eighty one. So this all happened

with him like seven months, you know. So this was, you know, whether rather rapidly, but yeah, I you know, confronted him over eight in our bucks, made a joke about his weight, and uh stole his girl from him. I think said he killed fifty Yeah, I think he said he killed fifty three people. I'm glad it wasn't fifty four, just when we put it that way, because I might not be here to tell those stories. Yeah, I look back and yeah, sure, and I when I saw some those details. Uh, you know, he stuck a

fork at some guys stroke. I'm surprising at all. Not not in the least bit surprising. He was that kind of guy, and he could fly off the handle in the second it was five five and what they pay to Yeah, but as you said, is weight fluctuated from them? Yeah? Yeah. From the u p I art from the u p I article from January two. As you point out, Kirshner

claimed to have murdered fifty three people. His literary agent described him as a very funny, very colorful character who sported taps on his on his patent leather shoes and war and I'm curious if you remember this war an elaborate ring on his left pinky elaborate ring, not just the ring, and elaborate one. He said that in nineteen seventy two, so ten years earlier, he was so taken with Kirshner stories that he had arranged for a ghostwriter to collaborate with the self styled hitman on a book.

And so for those who are interested after this show, perhaps to to read read more about it. The name of the book and you can, actually, I think by this if it's in stock on Amazon. It's gold Killer Killer, the Biography of a Mafia hit Man, written under the pen name of Joey Black. And if I'm not mistaken, and I have not watched this yet, but I think this morning, when I was doing just a little extra uh googling on this, I think there's a video of

Max talking about this. Don't hold me to that it might be his literary agent, but there's a YouTube clip about this as well. So I mean this is some serious stuff. And again Chris Andrews here thirty eight years later. Uh, lucky to be here, because I said, I've never seen anybody gain so much weight in the hospital. Yeah, like I said, I look back at I don't know, I don't know how he let me get away with that,

And I'm just taking a fork in my neck. I really don't know, you know, But but I know I kind of like me was person the funny guy, you know, but I wouldn't have been that surprised to be killed me or tried to kill me at least, you know, the figure and all these things that happened along the way there. But unfortunately I'm here. So but the other things we're stanting to mention, you know, Yeah, the cops never came and questioned me or anybody account me either.

And Matt, I mean, I'm starting, you know that such a I would figure I'd probably would be a suspect. You know, I don't know, I mean, you know, you know me, I'm like, I killed somebody over eight hunder butts, you know, but I'm sure why wouldn't they even come and talk to anybody? You know? Obviously they they didn't care that much, you know, So as as as someone who has spent most of my adult life in the Bay Area, I'm not surprised that police work. Let's just

put it that way. Glad you're here with us a classic story, and glad you're not victim number fifty four. Imagine he's like, yeah, fifty three, like he counted the guys that he murdered. We assume it's all guys. Uh. Next story coming up actually involves one of your long time friends and UH fraternity members bookmaking in Nevada. Nick Bogdanovich involved in the next one. It's a shorty coming up again the name of the book. Then one day forty years of book baking in the state of Nevada

from Chris Andrews, available where all books are sold. U telling stories all day long, a special edition of story Time right here on the Numbers game at Visan the Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to a Numbers game with Jill Alexander Backs game is DAGE Live, San Francisco. At least I'm in San Francisco. Chrissie back in Nevada, back in Las Vegas, UH telling the stories once again from his book. Then one day forty years of bookmaking in Nevada.

We can flash that up on the screen. Whatever available. We're all books are sold, including Amazon. Uh maybe in the South Point gift Shop when it reopens, we don't know. We'll see if it's restocked. This one is a a

quickie but involves Nick Bogdanovitch as well. Chris. Yeah, this was when Nick and I were working at the Golden Nugget together, and uh, you know, every day about last time we go and take a walk around town, and only one of the things about downtime least back then, and probably coming back to a lot of different sports books in town, you know, so it's like kind of a great way to, you know, shop for numbers and when you usually walk around see all the other sports books.

We go out of the Golden Nugget and we'd walk up to El Cortes and I can't I can't remember if they were part of the South Point yet or not. They might not have been for a while. They were like a satellite at the South Point, and so may we go up there. We went to the Freemont, which was avoid property. We went to Union Plaza, which I think at the time was Lucky's. I think they had

a sports book. And we go to Fitzgerald's, which was a leroise, you know, so we kind of make the rounds, just kind of look and numbers and seeing what was going on. I talked to the guys behind the counter, and that's what I think. So we going to Fitzgerald's, which this is the Dean now by the way, owned by our good friend Derek Stevens. So this was fitzgerald before Derek bought the place. And we go handing upstairs, and I think it was our last stop before we're

heading back to the Golden Nugget. So we go in and uh, you know, we're talking a little bit and then we're gonna head and yeah, we're gonna go get the bathroom before we walk back to the Golden Mining. Okay, so walk into the bathroom and there's like five or six guys crowder around us. Stall. Now we walk in there. Oh, I'm about about maybe forty eight or so at the time. I think Nick's about seven years younger. Me said he's forty one. We went the youngest in there by like

twenty years, you know, probably in the whole place. You know, walk in there, there's all these and They look at us like, oh, here's these young studs don't know what to do. Okay, we look at it. They look at us like, what the hell is going on? So we're trying to get the door open. We we think this guy dead on on the toilet, Jesus, so we can't help him. You know, show me the door open. We get it open. We're looking side. Oh yeah, he's dead. He's dead on the toilet. The one you want to

give him mouth to mouth recitation. No, I don't, but if you do, feel free, I'm not gonna do that. What do you think we drive? I think you just called security of what you do right now? You haven't done at all already. They're waiting for me and Nick Bugghim just to walk in the rescue the guy. You know, that's just a quick story, but one of the one of the tales of downtown lots day, just back in the day. So it was kind of a weird one.

Did of a seam of murder, of the hurder, a bit of a scene of murder here so far murder. I'm not sure this guy was accept maybe is a high cholesterol diet something like that was probably uh, his life's choices. I think murdered him more than a guy like Joey Black I would. So anyway, just know that we come up on this segment pretty quick, so that's just that's just a pretty quick one. But just one of those things. And I guess they shouldn't be laughing.

But you know, the guy wasn't older gentleman like I said. I went in. I was forty eight years old at the time. I was the youngest guy around, like like twenty years So yeah, anyway, I still tragic you're the guy. But it's just one of those weird stories in Las Vegas that I'm sure it happens elsewhere, but sure it seems like it happens in Las Vegas more often than than the other parts of the country. I was probably not in Beverly Hills. That's probably not what's gonna happen.

You're going to the restroom at the Beverly Hill probably not gonna gonna happen. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, Chrissie. That was that's the hard rock every weekend about a decade or two ago. Uh in the back. No, I'm kidding um. By the way, I brought up murder, that you won't be Angela Landsbury for the rest of

the show. But do you ever hear the pet summer All John Madden thing when they used to when Summer All used to promo murder, she wrote, at the end of the at the end of a football game on a Sunday, they they were getting so they would drink a lot that two of them spoiler alert um and then they decided to have a bet between each other

to crack each other up. That every time at the end of the show or at the end of the game, as the game was winding down, some are all would try to make the gap between murder and she wrote longer and longer, so it got to the point where by the end of the season it would be like coming up except for those of you on the West Coast sixty minutes followed by Angela Landsbury and murder. She wrote, that kind of that kind of thing anyway, but no

more murder, Christie coming back on a Dumble's Game. Then one day, four years of book making in a vat on the way back right here at Vista the Sports Petting Network, Welcome back to a Numbers Game with Jill Alexander It is a numbers game right here at theast of the biggest stats and information network, brought you by the bet MGM map. It's Gill Alexander live from San Francisco today, Chrissie Andrews on the phone. Uh. And for those just tuning in wondering, Oh, they're just telling stories

all day. Uh. This is the sort of you know, the version of story time that Chrissy used to tell on the Beating the Book podcast, all sort of condensed into one show. We'll put it in podcast form later in the day as well, Chrissy. Uh. From Murder to Honor, this is about one of your mentors in the business. Yeah, this is This is a story about Warren Nelson, who was the guy really who hired me at cal Neva. And uh, you know, without Warren, without the cal Neva,

you know, I wouldn't be where I am today. So a lot of kudos to him. There's a lot of Warren stories I have, but this one is my favorite. I wasn't there for it, but so I can't vouch for the the the absolute truth of the story, but I can vote for the truth. If this is what Warren's told me, I can tell you that. I guess, let's just get into it. Warren was one of those guys.

Grew up in Montana. And Warren's passed away. Now he was alive, he'd be about a hundred and ten, I think, so, you know, just to go back and subtractor when he would have been born, I guess about nineteen ten something like that. So grew up during you know, the early years and lived through his depression that sort of thing. So it really was the wild West back then. Sometimes Montana is still a little bit like that. Anyway, back in the day, Warren would tell me there's all kind

of stuff going on in Montana. A lot of Chinese immigrants. They like to gamble on an awful lot of things. And and that's so there was a lot of Charlotteans around there. And Warren learned to to deal, to like deal black jack, poker or whatever. And he also learned a lot of magic tricks with cards. And he did something for me, like right in front of my eyes, and I mean, I'd be like, you know, two ft from him, and he mix the deck, mix the deck, mixed deck. Boom, here's the Ace of Spade. Holy crap.

He mixes deck cut the cars. Boom, here's the Ace of Spades. You're sitting there like he's right and running and they don't only crap, how did he do this? You know? But he could do those kind of things. And as a twenty one dealer, he could also deal you from the bottom of the deck or whatever to give you any card he felt like, given you one. Kind of guys and uh, you know, I mean, I'm sure there's some of them around, not too many anymore,

I would hope, but they're still around anyway. So this was back I count EVA started in nineteen sixty two. Now that they was originally two places, the County EVA right along the state line up that uh uh an Incline Village in Lake tom and there was the county even downtown Rena. So I think they had split by this point and it was just the cal Neva in Reno and uh Reno for those folks that don't know,

can be extremely seasonal. Uh if we get a bad winner, a lot of people can't come in from the Bay area, which is the big feed or market. They can't get over the hill. Um it's about a you know, I think about an eight thousand foot pass. You have to go over uh to get into Reno from California, and especially back then, you know, the road cruise weren't nearly as good as they are today. So a lot of times in the winter, Reno would you know, really be

pretty slow. This was one of the This was one of those years and Calmy was just getting started and they were coming up the first year in business without the lake, and they weren't going to make paywall. Uh. They were struggling and they had expenses obviously, and they was coming up and they, you know, these guys, they didn't know what to do. Into the joint. One night came Pappy Smith. Now Pappy Smith and his son Harold owned Harold's Club in Reno. Now Harold's Club was really

a pretty happening joint. And for those who remember, probably guys my age or even older, there were signs throughout the west about you know, X amount of miles to Harold's Club and Reno x, you know, and it was really kind of, uh, you know, pretty good marketing plan. And that was a thing. Harold, Pappy's son, was really the casino guy, and he started the company, started the casino, and Pappy came in and Pappy kind of almost mustled

out his own son. You know, Pappy was not a casino guy, but he was a great promoter, which he really was. And Pappy was quite the character. I think he was married five times and even like some of his ex wives when they when they got you a couple, I know that we're very sick late late in their life. Uh, Pappy took care of them, you know, financially, So he good and dad was Pappy, as with most of us, very hard to just say he's a good guy or a bad guy or whatever. But it was definitely a

promoter and uh, that sort of thing. So it was a very colorful character. So he's at the County EVA and he comes into the County EVA and this is during the wintertime, county of the sweat and whether they can make their payroll. He comes to the blackjack table buys in for thirty thousand. Like I said, this is early sixties, thirty thousands, pretty helping buying nowadays. What was a fourth and back then he buys in for thirty thousand. Warren moves the dealer off the game. He's going to

deal himself to Pappy Smith. Again. Something you won't see nowadays. You know, So Warren starts dealing the Pappy well low and behold, Warren starts healing from the bottom of the debt. Or you know, however or however he did it, I really don't know, but you know, slowly but surely he gets Pappy for the thirty thousand. Now, Warren wouldell himself. He'd say, Cappy knew what was going on. Pappy knew

he was being cheated and never said anything Warren. Warren said, Pappy must have known that we were in some desperate straits, weren't going to make payroll as he and even though they were right down the street and a competitor, Pappy let it go. I knew he was getting. Did they have a previous relationship, Chris, the two of them, Well, I'm sure they did. I'm sure they did, because that's

the way Reno was. You know, certainly a very small town back then, and uh you know, a lot different in Las Vegas, the downtown Reno a lot of little casinos, but you know, some of them were very profitable. I mean that Pappy's joint made a ton of money. Harold's Harolds because really one of the first uh No hotel or anything like that. Just the casino, and that was that was another part of the market around Reno. At

that time. All the motels filled up. The hotels weren't all that big until much until later Harris came in and build a big tower and all that. But before that was really all the motels. So Pappy loses the thirty thousand and walks out, doesn't saye and even makes payroll. Wound up being very profitable, very very successful. Warren and all the owners became very wealthy. I don't know how much. Let's bookmark that story right here, because I gotta squeeze

in one break. This is a good place to to sort of take that break, uh, And we'll get back to the conclusion of this story. We'll tell some other ones again for those just landing on the show today, just in the in the time that we are in these strange times of the coronavirus. Something to distract you, uh from yourself quarantining and from the uh, just sort

of odd situation that we're all in these days. Some stories from back in the day from then one day forty years of book making in Nevada from Chris Andrews will continue in moments at Visa in these Sports Betting Network right here on a numbers game. Welcome back to a numbers game with Gil Alexander. It is enough as game Piel Alexander back here on the show, live from

San Francisco. Chris Andrews kind enough to join us for the full two hours telling stories story time with Chrissie today on the show before we get back into the War and Nelson story, because it was an interesting point where you left off. I have to say, it's a beautiful day. It looks like it's going to be a beautiful day here in San Francisco. And I have to tell you, Chris, this is the part of quarantining that is that is not. I don't think enough is made

of when the weather is terrible. I think everybody's cool on staying inside. When it gets beautiful like this, it's amazing. It's amazing. And think about it, Like in comparison, Roxy was making this point yesterday, how little we sacrifice of this. We're just being asked to stay on the couch and watch Netflix. Right, But when it's nice like this, I'm telling you there's gonna be tons of people running outside.

It is. It is tough. It goes against our nature, even though we know that's what we're supposed to do these days. Oh yeah, Like I think you and I talked yesterday that our parents are grandparents, uh you know, Flotting wars yours escaped the Holocaust um and the sacrifice we have to do is wash our hands for twenty seconds and stay inside. You know, so amazing, amazing apatis compared to that. You know, this is a very serious crisis, and we can't you know, we have to take care

of ourselves to take care of everybody else around us. Absolutely, absolutely, quick wrap up, please, a quick wrap up of that. Warren Nelson's story, just very quickly. So Warren beats the guy out of thirty thousand. He swears Patti Smith knew what was going on, but you know, and sometime in her on I don't know what six months, a year or two years, I have no idea. Warren wasn't specific about that. He told me. After Colt y Evil was born,

like I said, they became very very successful. He took thirty thousand over the out of the cage and he went over to Harold's close and he purposely blew the thirty thousand. Back to Harald's club, back to Patty Smith and his son of Harold, and uh that Harold was actually the casino guy. But of course Harold knew what was going on, and just on the way out, Warren's just kind of nod at the Harold. Harold nodded back,

and that was the end of it. He your audio, your audio, for sure, your your audio dropped out for a second. He did it playing black jack. He just purposely lost it on black jack. What how did he lose the money again? Yeah, he went over to play black jack and purposely lost it playing black jack. And Warren was pretty good black jack. He was pretty good at all those casino type games, you know, so, uh, forgetting to lose thirty thousand would not be you know,

a normal thing. But he went over and purposely lost it. Back to Harold and Pappi Smith. So you know, good on mon for being a man of honor, which he was. Yeah, again, something you couldn't imagine a casino conglomerate CEO doing with another one today at least I just just wouldn't happen. Um, all right, but this uh oneted this tell this one too. You haven't told this one in a long time. Oh

really okay, I hope obviously one of our favorite stories. Uh. This was back in the day at County even again it was nine two and uh one of the things we were doing at Caltyva we tried to add year round parlay cards and then you know, we tried to argue with Warren did not do this, you know, but he insisted on it and he did it. So he parley cards even through basketball season. Was one of those

deals where it put out some numbers. We make the card, like on Wednesday or Thursday, even at by time Saturday and Sunday came around. Some of those numbers were really still and it was very playable card, h with a very slow whole percentage. But that's what Warren wanted, so

that's what we did. Anyway. One, uh, this is one Saturday. Um, we had this guy who was as every sports book manager in town has at least one guy like this, probably more five dollar better and he's always betten you know, four or five, six, seven, eight teamers and he's a total pain in hees. Chris, I bet over on this game? Can I change it to under? The halfway through the part like you'd have an eight team or four in and he wanted to change it. Chris canna get listed

pictures on this party. I mean, whatever could do to just be a pain, that's what he would say, you know. And this guy was the Psycho James we called them, and he wasn't psycho. A nice guy, but he was definitely had some some issues. Uh. Anyway, started coming up and this was like really a daily occurrence to go through this, you know, every day, every day. So finally I got tired of dealing and I said the James, I would love to do it, but you Lawando won't

let me. Now you Lando Juna, who's been in this business about as long as I have, is that the mirage rights are about a couple of weeks ago. And we still laugh about this story. I would do and you Lawn that kind of ran the back room, she ran the race book, she handled all the computer stuff, all that sort of thing. And I would tell him James, I would do it, but you Lawn, they just won't let me do it. It's not on me, it's on

your Landa. Oh oh, so you Lawana, she's the big boss. Yep, you Landa, She's the big boss if I could do what I would, but you Lawanda just won't let me do it. Oh okay, okay. So this would go on and he says, Chris, I know I want to change his ticket, but Yolanda won't let you do it. Oh no, James, I would love to personally, I would do it in a second, but Lawn, they just want him to do it. So we had our sports book and race book was separate at the time, and you lawn to, all the

computers and everything were over in the race book. So Ylanda was working out of the race book and she come through the the sports book every now and then. And as she would come through, Now, James used to wear a hoodie. Now this was back in yet his hoodies were not all that popular and certainly see him a lot today, but they weren't around much back in

that day. Well, he would like sinch up that hoodie and he looked like Kenny on South Park, you know, where you could barely see his eyes and he scrunched down in the chair. I mean, he was just an abject fear of Yolanda, just fear of Yulan. And Landa didn't even know this guy existed. And she didn't care less, like said, the guys the five dollar better. She never had to deal with them, of course, because he was scared to death of her. And I had to do it every day. So how is she gonna know about

this guy? You know? And but there would be Psycho James and we would just laugh when Landa would come through, we said, what watch James, watch James, and he since that. I mean, it was just so funny, you know. So anyway, now this is back, like I said, early eighties basketball on TV, and the kids these days don't understand it. I mean, before then you used to get like one game on TV on a Saturday and maybe two and

that was about it. But now with the advent of you know, ESPN was showing games and the USA Network was showing games. Plus we were getting uh local broadcasts on the satellite system all that sort of thing, so there was a lot of games on TV. So this was one of those days. And and James bet a five dollar parlay card and it paid a thousand dollars, you know, so the odds were, what's that two hundred a month? So James has a five dollar pin, he's got seven in he's got seven in and it's going

to the eighth game. Now, the games were all in the morning, and then the the eighth game was I think a five o'clock start, So eight o'clock back east, so Harry comes Christmas. Can I can I avoid out my eighth game because I just say, uh, you know, five hundred or whatever. It is. No, James, Now he's got he's got all of this. He's got a thousand guys are five dollar read, he's got thousand dollars running on his last game. He wants some for you to take it, or he wants to get somebody to back

them so he can head the last bet. You know, nobody's gonna led James five dollars for him to let the you know, the head of his last game. He couldn't come up. And now the game tips off. He's got a sweat the game, and I pretty I went back and looked, and I think I I found the game. I think it was Connecticut versus uh Syracuse versus Connecticut. It was a great Connecticut team, a big, great Yokes team that had uh Leo Rautins Arab Santa for you know,

go back to like that year. I think that's the game. I'm not sure when you think it might be anyway, Yeah, I think it's a little before Pearl Washington. So anyway, so Syracuse is blowing about, they're blowing about, and James he starts strutting. He starts strutting. He's running around the sports book. For those do know, no, a lot of Reno guys probably listening. The county of the sports book was big. It's a big sportswoo probably bout the size of on the South Point, you know, sports book so

pretty big. He starts running laughs, He's got the ticket in his left hand, holding it up. He's got to roll up newspaper and he's hitting himself on the butt like a jockey whipping a horse and running around the castine, running around the sports book holding the Chris Chris thousand dollars, thousand dollars, you owe me a thousand. Tell your lawn

that that, tell your line to that. And now he starts running around and he's hit himself, and that's the chance that he's, Hell you lawn to that, Tell you lawn to that. Well, who comes walking through the sports regret at your Lawnda and she's like, what the hell? Is this because I've been throwing your lawned up? Oh no, no, And like I said, I've been throwing her under the bus for months. You know, she has no idea, you know though this guy, she doesn't know I'm throwing her

under the bush. Well, now I gotta pest up and tell you, lawn to really, what's going on? What's happening. And she just looked at me like that. She was probably bad for about half a second, but after that we just started laughing. And like I said, to this and I had. She was at a dinner with me a couple of months, a couple of weeks ago, and we did we told the story again and we both still crack up at the site. It's burned in your memory.

Him parading around the sports book, you know, slapping himself on the butt like it was like a jockey whipping a horse. Tell you, laan to that. Tell you And there's a couple of us work that they're still in the business and we still if I ever say tell you to that, don't just start laughing right away. Psycho James won his one thousand. You know, as you know Chris I worked with for I'm sorry, go ahead finish, go ahead. I'm just gonna say. Then. Of course, James

started betting to game mat Man. By the next Saturday, he was back to five going part that's of course he was. I used to work with j Rute as you know what, MGM, and he one day he casually was like, yeah, my assistant Yoli, and I was like, Yolie, you mean Yolanda. And I went up to Yolanda and I go, you're Yolanda. And she couldn't understand. She had no idea what was going on. She was amazed by that.

We'll come back more stories for see on the Numbers Game Visa the Sports Betting Network, The Numbers Game with your host Gil Alexander. Believe it is the Numbers Game right here at Visa, the Vega Stats and Information Networks, brought you by the Bed MGM app Gil Alexander live from San Francisco. It's our new San Francisco office. Is uh here at Visa. Chris Andrews with us for two hours talking about his book. Then one day forty years of book making in Nevada, telling some of the stories

that are included in that book. Later this week on the show Tomorrow, Bill Krakenburger, no time like uh these days to do a profile of Bill. I always get to talk to him every week, but never really get to get into his origins and betting. And we'll hear his story. Mike Palm and Todd Wishnev on the show

tomorrow a little uh megapod reunion. We'll hear from Mike Palm how everything is affecting Circle, what they've done to sort of I don't know, uh, what's the word, but to protect to themselves these days from what's going on, uh with the coronavirus, Todd Wishnev with how it's impacting his life, uh. And then Brent Musburger later in the week, Ron flat or Vinni mala Ulo. Thank god yesterday for

Rufus Peabody and Roxy Roxburrow and Mike Lombardi. Michael Lombardi was fabulous yesterday for an hour, so of course he's a great guy that will have on time and time again through it all talk NFL free agency and the draft of course approaching. But we're lucky to have Chrissie not once but twice this week, uh to hang out with us for an extended period of time. Chris another

hour of stories. Let's keep them coming. This one, It's one is a is an oldie, but goody, I love We We title these when we send them back and forth to each other like what we're gonna what we're gonna actually talk about? This one is simply called well, I won't even say because it's kind of the punchline, so I'll let you tell. Yeah, yeah, okay. So this was my teen seven is a Sunday night game team. And for those who remember back then, so this was

the Bears and the Vikings. So the Bears were two years removed from that team that a lot of people think they're one of the best ever, certainly one of the best defenses ever, won the Super Bowl, and easily think wounded up with one loss all year. Anyway, two years removed from that, so there's still a great team that certainly not what they once were. Minnesota was a terrific team this year, but this was the strike year

in Minnesota. Of all the teams really kind of blew it during the strike because they had three strike games and they all counted in the standings and they used scabbed players, and Minnesota kind of and they admitted afterwards. They never took it seriously. They didn't think they were the games. They didn't think there'd be anything, so they were totally unprepared. So they were kind of fighting for their lives to make it into the playoffs. Uh, because

they blew all three of the strike games. So each game once they once the players came back in and what had each game was really almost like a playoff game for them. So it was a huge game from Minnesota, who was good, not a great game, but a very very good team that year. And I think a matter of fact, this year they lost on the to the Redskins with a pass that Darren Nelson dropped in the end zone. You know, you probably remember that better than I. I was at that game anyways, I was. I was

at that game at k Stadium. Yeah. Yeah. No. The reason that that significant that the Vikings didn't take those scab games seriously is because contrasted with the Redskins, who did take it very seriously. Bobby Betherd and Joe Gibbs coached up those players. Movies have been made about the Redskins scab team, and the NFC championship ended up being Minnesota at Washington largely because those scab games all counted. So yeah, yeah, that really was it was significant. Yeah

in Minnesota really blew it, you know. Anyway, So this was they were playing something night game against the Bears and the game was running around picked him, you know, that was pretty much the number around. It was gonna be an intense team. Hey, well we had this one player and I told him Ben, I don't want to go into too many details about him, and you'll see

why he kind of seen. But he would come in and this guy, I mean, he had big, big money and it was about as big as the general gamblers here from bed in your life back then, like I said, we didn't have the done best screen. We didn't we didn't have anything. And halftimes in basketball we're you know, practically unheard. There were there was a few round loads of big games. Remember he came up U. He came into the County EVA and he said, oh, I'm late

getting here. I'm late. Jana U c l A and b y U was on the TV and he said, can you make me a halftime number as well? No, I know I haven't really been watching. I don't know what's going on. He's I'll tell you what make hand number, and I guarantee a thirty thousand dollar bet. Well, okay, I'm not gonna turn that down, you know. Okay, come up with a number, and there he goes. He bets me. You know, I mean, listen, I'm getting eleven, he's getting jack.

So he bets me thirty three thousand and win thirty. And I can't remember which side he had, but he did lose that game. But anyway, the guy was really a pretty good handicapper, uh. And he was also a big player in the pit. So this is a whale that we landed at calt Neva. But a lot of guys like that, they really liked coming to a reno because if they went to Vegas, they were a big fish in a big pond. If they came to a reno,

they were a monster fish in a small pond. And this was this guy, and he loved to have his butt kissed and everything else. So we treated him like goals. And he was a huge player both in the pit and in the sportsman. Anyway, he comes up one weekend, Uh, this is for that during that Minnesota and is a cash here's check for two thousand and it's kind of going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth

a little weekend. So come to the Sunday night game, he's pretty much like dead even he wants to put the whole two hundred seventy five thousand on the on the game. Okay, well, he goes, well, I want to bet. I want to bet the vikings, you know, And at this time I always said I want to bet a hundred. I want to bet two hundred thousand on the vikings. And I know what he's gonna do with the other fifty. I know he's gonna come back at half time and bet the vikings. Because that he was never a guy

that would have hedge, never ever. So I said, Howard Thomas Man, you know, you know, I'll let you play, but I gotta give you two numbers. And that's a that's a big bet, you know, I I gotta let I'll let you play. You have to lay pick and then you have to lay one for half of it on each Oh, no, you've got this all right. It was always a negotiation with this guy, always fighting with it and whatever. You know. Usually, you know Bill mcke who was the boss. Bill mc would handle like you know,

almost all the negotiations as far as money. He loved gonna cash your check. He was looking to get a marker. He's doing all this. Bill handled all that, but let me handle like the negotiations as far as you know what he was gonna bet what point spread, et cetera. There, And I would tell him, I said, I gotta shows something to build. I just can't let you step all over me. And kind of as it's still picking one, as they still just have to win the game. You

know that, it's still you know, it's a difference. I understand that, but it's not huge, you know. And so finally I get him the okay, even when you pick him in one other game hundred thousand each, and of course he comes back at half time and bet the other fifty five thousand, five thousand ride money game, Yeah to seventy five to win two sixty you know. So anyway, uh, why it's a great game. Now, I have to tell you this. It's a kind of a mea culp on

my point. I got some of the details wrong in the book, and the game in its entirety, as of about a couple of months ago, is posted on YouTube. So I went back in the whole game. Somebody told me that that I the whole game. I went back like the fourth quarter. So I had a couple of things wrong, you know, with you know, listen, I wasn't taking notes at the time. This is ven. You know, I got a few of the details wrong, but I

got the crux of the story right. Anyway that you know, the uh, the Vikings were down, they came back, take the lead, Bears come back, and anyway that the score is sitting at twenty four twenty three Minnesota with like under a minute to play, and right away I'm thinking, you know what, well, first, I'm gonna blow a hundred thousand, I think even when it's half time that two so

I'm a ball and or fifty thousand. I know this guy is gonna give me a big paint in the ask because I made him later one also almost like I'd rather just win the two hundred thousand, you know, than than now, because he pushed on the one that I'm gonna have to deal with this and it's gonna be tortured, and I was. This guy was just he was another guy I always kind of liked them, but he could really be difficult. To deal with So anyway,

you know, we go. We you know, I'm watching the game and you know, Bill comes down to my office and watching the game and he's doing the same things, and she's, yeah, those when you made the write bookmaking move. But this is just going to be such a band and he asked to deal with that. I'm gonna hate dealing with it, but you know whatever, that's what it is, and we we're gonna blow at this point. So okay. Anyway, So now, by the way, the other the other part

of this story, both teams lost their starting quarterback. Now. For the Bears, it was Jim McMahon. For the Vikings it was Tommy Kramer, but both good quarterbacks. The backup for the Vikings was Wade Wilson, who was a career backup who was always one of those guys almost like a George and the type we can't had a great career as a backup, was never a terrific starter, but he pulled out a lot of games out of the fire as a backup. And let me just Chris for

a second. Wade Wilson was the guy who ended up playing the rest of the season for the Vicers. He was the guy who threw that last beast to Darren Nelson that went in complete. Darryl Green broke it up at the goal line in the championship game. So yeah, that was the end of the season. The rest of the way was Wade Wilson. Yeah, so he really was a terrific back. I had a pretty good career. I think Wade Wilson passed away too, by the way. Um anyway,

so Tom Mike, Tom's deck and undrafted free agent. He's either a rookie year I think he might have been a second year man out of out of Ohio State. Undrafted. He's the backup for for UH for Jim McMann. But he's playing pretty good. So now, yeah, there's under a minute to play. Yeah, they got a score. He got a a at least the field goal here to win

the game and games in Minnesota. And Tom Zack leads down the field and he hit Gary Gentry, who was a converted running back who they were using a wide receiver. Of course, you weren't getting a lot of carriers with Walter Payton in the game hit us, so they converted him the wide receiver. He catches the ball in the flat, he breaks one tackle and it's one of those. I mean, we're watching you can see he breaks the one tackle.

He's gone. He's so he winds up to avoid one other guy, you know, just you know one on one that the goal, and he avoids him, goes into the end zone, scores with about forty seconds to play, and naturally, yea, the Bears wind up winning the game, and Ben goes bull listing. So he's looking to win, you know, like from winning a hundred fifty thousand, he goes the losing two hundred seventy five. He goes nothing and and uh

now he goes we have them. He we had his own special room where he was watching the game and Bill and I are watching it on you know, closercuit TV. He's going nuts. He's you know, he would smoke like crazy when you know things are on the line. He's growing ashtrays. I don't know if he broke the TV or not in fit him, but he's throwing ashtrays. He's going nuts, ripping up favors, throwing He's trying to trying

to get get ahold of Bill. Bill doesn't want to talk to me, trying to avoid you know, Bill, I gotta get out of here. I gotta Finally he gets ahold of Bill he wants, you know, so he blew all his money, he had his cash, gear's check. It's all one. He gets Bill to give him a marker I think for twenty thousand. Yeah, I'm being pretty sure that's one to get Bill. He writes a check to Bill and he tells Bill, I'm not gonna be you know, don't can't catch it right away. He said, that'll be

good in a couple of days. Takes the twenty thousand and uh, and he doesn't tried to win a playing black jacket and one of my favorite parts of the store. So he has his own blackjack table and he's playing like I don't know how many hands. I'm really not a black jack guy. I'm not a you know, I'm not a take games guy. But I'm watching and I don't want him to see me, but I'm watching. Over on the side, they bringing a guy who was kind of a friend of mine, who was like the calmest

dealer you ever saw in your life. And they brought this guy in on purpose because they knew Ben couldn't rattle him. Because he trying to rattle everybody, everybody all the time. So they bring in this guy to deal with the where it was, you know, dealer dealer has like, uh, you know an ace up or face card up. I can't remember what. You know, Ben had dealt to four teams. He takes the cards, he ripped them up, and throws him in the dealer's face. The dealer just looks over

at the pit. Boss says, new deck. That's like, um, I lost that. I mean, so funny just the way this guy reacted looks over that deck. He winds up flowing, he winds up blow in the twenty thousand. Uh, you're trying to get you know, trying to win a quarter of a million plus, you know it's probably more probably looking to win the whole casino. At that point, he's just steam and steam. He blows the twenty thousand. Bill won't give him any more money. You know that that's enough.

You know, he just won't go. So he storms out of there. He leaves, and again you think that'd be me, and the story is not. So the next day we come in nextally, we're we're feeling pretty good. You know, we just want a huge bet. That's a lot of money for a little place. I count me in a book and the win you know, everything else. So we had finished off just a great, great weekend and all of a sudden bill calls and that beisades uh Ben

is trying to welsh on the cashier's check. I'm pretty young at the time, I'm third be one of I can't use check. I can't use check. How did that work? I don't know. But we have to get our legal team, and you know, and again I don't want to mention the bank. The bank called us. They're going to stand behind him and try to not pay this check. Said, well, that's you know, that's that's ridiculous. Now I'm not one of the owners at this point. I'm just you know,

I'm just a working stiff. But they're keeping me posted, you know. So, I mean they're they're on the plane. We get our legal team, so they have to fly into this guy's hometown where the where the bank was, and everything else so on on the way there. And like I said, I always said, tell me it was really pretty well connected politically, you'd be very surprised. I mean, I've had you know, Harry read in my office. I've had Dick Brand who was a governor and a senator

in my office. I you know, I got to know Bob Miller, who was a government I got to know him reasonably well. Uh Frankie, they'll uh Frankie Sudell Papa, who was the Attorney General Secretary State in the Vatan rampord, Governor Kenny gwyn All. You know, I got to know those guys all pretty good. It was all through Cantedo. They're pretty well connected politically. Anyway, they're on the way to UH to meet the bankers and meet Band's gonna try to waltch on the check and we're going in

front of a judge. And on the way they're they're they're calling the bank and saying, listen, this isn't beyond one check, so this is the cashier's check. You realize what you're doing here. This is like and I can't quote a law, I don't know the law, but this is a serious violation of whatever the banking standards are. And I'm not sure if it's you know, what the statutes are or whatever. This is a serious violation. And they explain to them, like I said, we had some

pretty powerful lawyers. So by the time we get in front of the judge. So there, the judge calls us forward. I'm not there. I'm just hearing this all from Bill, who loves giving me the play by play. They're like, well this is all going on. So you know, we get they get in front of the judge and here comes the bankers. Well guess what, they come on our side.

So Ben man in there by himself with his own lawyer and wait a second, the bankers, you were supposed to be on my sid No, no, no, and I will explain them that this is you really can't do that. And he's, you know, he's stunned. He's stunned. Now the bankers are taking our side this, which of course they have to. I mean it's a catch your's check. You welsh on the catch you this check, you know. So we we get the money. And now it's the next day,

Tuesday morning. I'm sitting in my office. I'm working on the parlay card. There comes Bill into my office and knocks on the door. Hey, what's up are you doing? I'm booking a party card? What's up? Uh? We're being sued? Who's being sued? Me? And you? Bye? Who? By Ben? What mental cruelty. It was one of those deals. I looked at Bill and we just both broke up laughing. We couldn't stop laughing. Here we are getting to it, and this was like the cruelest s ob you ever

met in your life. Like that part of me kind of like the guy, but he was cruel. You could see him in medieval time and running a torture chamber and loving every minute. But he would be one of those kind of guys. He would absolutely be that guy. And we start laughing, And why don't we stopped and look at each other and just start laughing again. I mean, we couldn't stop laughing. This guy was doing us for

mental cruelty. Anyway, the wind up of the story kind of fizzles from there, but we never got called in for death positions. We never had to make a sap. At some point, cooler heads prevailed, and I'm sure the lawyer explained them. Then you couldn't win this suits for mental cruelty. That's all yourself. Now. The wind up of the stories, the business held in and I don't want to say what kind of business it was, Bill happened that this check, you know what, not Christmas would not

be his biggest day. There was another day where I don't want to say what it was, where his business does the biggest sales of the year, and Bill hold onto that check until after that one day, after that weekend at the positive that check and that twenty dollar check and that cleared too, and he must have gone at that point he must have really wanted to do the mental cruelty. He Bill got him for the last and we would laugh about that one as well. Women Uh.

And then of course I think the best part you and I agree is the dealer going new deck, new deck. We'll come back stories on the way, storytime with Chris the ages right there in a numbers game in Welcome back to a Numbers game with Jill Alexander not just kill Alexander from San Francisco, but Chris Andrews of course from Las Vegas, Nevada. Um talking about his book. Then one day, forty years of book making in Nevada available world books are sold. Um. You know that story, Chris,

that you just told, the mental cruelty story. That that's if we had an underrated one through the years. I think that's the underrated one that was. That's an awesome twist third story. Um, and it reminds me, and this has nothing to do with anything, so forgive me for even injecting this. But I'm here in San Francisco. I used to work at came L Radio. For those who, uh who are from the Bay, I used to wear at came L back in the day, and this was This did not apply to me, but to two of

my coworkers, the late Michael Ericson and Rosary. We had a listener who sued us, not for mental cruelty, but for planting a chip into his brain and brainwalk like. It was just amazing and nothing ever came of it, like in your mental cruelty case. But the fact that lawyers had to spend billable hours on these things just reminds me of stuff like that. It's amazing. Um, this is another great one that you haven't told the while I I don't know that I've ever I think I

told it once on the podcast. I didn't put this in my book for a very specific reason because I have a version of this story. You know, I hoisted the story and changed quite a few of the details in my novel, which I'm trying to get published. A lot of things on hold right now, but I was kind of moving forward with that before those virus hits. You know, I'm gonna actually reach out to this one person and see if I can get this thing moving again.

But I have a novel written and I think it's pretty good, and I have a version of this story in my novel, So let me just say it. But I think I've only told it once in the podcaster on our show, and it's not in the book. But I will tell it. Okay, This is a couple of guys, and you know what, I didn't use their real names of time. I thought I might as well use them now. The one guy's passed away and the other guy's a multi multi millionaire and he's over nine years old. I mean,

there's nothing they could do. And then then they really didn't do anything that bad, you know, as far as they were concerned. Anyway, These were two guys that ran junk its into Las Vegas, into the Caribbean and into London.

Now this is uh, you know, early seventies, at late sixties, early seventies, and uh, there was guys that don't know, London had a pretty happening casino scene at the time, and you know, casinos were uh, you know, really just a burgeoning industry, interest industry in America, you know, with Las Vegas being the primary one, and uh, but there was other ones throughout throughout the world, mostly in Europe.

So they would run junkets into into London. And one of the guys, a couple of the guys that ran, you know, some of the some of the bigger casinos in London. Among them were the Craze Brothers. There's a couple of movies out there's a decent movie, uh, involving

the Craze. Now, the Craze were twins out of London's East Side, uh, you know, Cockney brothers, and they were some pretty rough customers and you can go Wikipedia and Craze k r a Y. So the movie in was The Craze and it started Gary and Martin Kemp from Spandau Ballet, which was a like a new way band out of London. Yeah yeah, yeah, Smandel Balle not a bad band, you know, And anyway, that's that was they started.

They were twins and played the Craigs Wins. The other movie, which I think is a little better, it's called Legends and it starts Tom Hardy and Tom plays both brothers and Tom Hardy having a terrific actor you know, another

another brit Yeah. And anyway, the brothers were Reggie and Ronnie Craig k r a Y and uh, I mean they were definitely mob guys, but socialites too, almost like a gaudy like a John Gaudy kind of guy, where uh, a mobster of the people, if you will, because they didn't actually do some things like helped a lot of the you know, poor kids around around the East end of London, you know, but of course that doesn't forgive them for some of the other things because you're like,

they're mob guys, but they're socialites too. Yeah, they were, They were, they were you know, I mean to ring like you know, theyre not with like Judy Garland, you know, and George Raft and some other you know, you know, celebrities of that day and age, and you know that's the way it was, you know. Anyway, these guys and that, like I said, I'll use your just Captain and tips and uh captain captain who got Captain's one and the

other guy was tipped. I'll just use their nicknames. Yeah, Chris, let me let me just be let me be rude here, let me be route to interrupt you because you know this is a short break here. Let's let's continue with this story. We should probably yeah, that's all right, way sorry, Oh that's alright, short one. We'll come right back. We should probably play out spandout Ballet's true out to break here.

Um this is the story about the Crab Brothers Chrissie coming back right here on the Numbers Game in Visa exclusively the Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to a Numbers game with Jill Alexander. We get tweets at Beating Booth. Always appreciate the feedback on Twitter at Beating the Book. Um Man, this is from Dan Wood at Wood Dandy, got to tell you this show is helping me so much getting through the day. Story time is awesome to

thanks Gil and Chris. Really all thanks to Chris. I thank him as well, Big Cajuna uh In these times, listening to you and Chris is a perfect deflection from reality. Thank you both, and uh T for three got me in quarantine bouncing around saying tell you a love to that. I got a lot of tell you a love of that tweet strips from people. That's all right, I'm sorry we interrupted you again. Back to the Cray brothers there, no, I'm sorry. You know, we're not going to get through

all these stories. They just take longer than I thought. And that's my fault. I hadn't in my notes that that's a short segment. But we never got through anyway. Anyway. So these guys, so the Captain and Tips, they go and they got drunk is running into into London. Out there in London, the Cray Brothers said, listen, we got a soccer game going and the fixes in. We got the referee in our pocket, and we got the goldpender in our pocket. So you know, oh that sounds pretty good.

So they're gonna bet the game, you know, Tips and Captain there. Now, like I said, Captain was kind of guy. I think I got interrupted right at this point. Captain was kind of guy. If he walked into the room and he's bought a big guy or anything like that, but he's like a powerful guy. You know, you see some of those guys every once in a while. Not a big guy, but definitely like commands the room. Short of it. He's one of those kind of guys. Tips,

not at all. Tips is always kind of like a little bit very smart guy, but a little bit of like a lost soul. You know, he'd be the kind of guy at the movie asking you who's that guy? What happened? Why did they kill that other guy? You know, he'd be one of those guys. And I love Tips, but he can drive you crazy a little bit once in a while. Right, So, so they're watching the game, like I said, this is I think this is early seventies.

So the game's gone on TV. But they have a guy at the stadium and let's just make up two teams totally made up. I don't know the teams involved. I think it was probably a second level game. Uh so, but let's just say you know Arsenal and chef Chelsea. I said, they've been on Chelsea and you know, so they got the gold pender in their pocket and their referee. So the game is going on, and you know, so

they need Chelsea games going on. They're getting calls from the pay phone because there's no score phone or anything like that or you know nothing, you know, mill mill mil mill, what's the score? Nil mill still mill mill. Then you know, getting towards late the game. Arsenal scores. What's the score Arsenal one nil. Oh jeez, Arsenal one. It's coming down in the end. Oh man, they're next.

Now they need Chelsea to win. You know, it's one of those streewave that's like they have in Europeans offer. They need Arsenal they need Chelsea to win. Arsenal one nil, Arsenal one nill. They're an extra time Arsenal one neal one deal. So the final comes in. You know, the rest can't extend time any more than yet. He gave as much extra time as you possibly could, Like they said they got they never got a shot on the goal, even though they had the goaltender in their pocket. They

never got a shot on goal. So final comes in Arsenal one mill. These guys, you know their m f and throwing their in bar. You know, they're like drinking and you know, abusing the bartender and throwing glasses around, and you know it's pretty obvious what happened. It leans over to the captain. He's a captain. How many is nil? It wasn't sure yet if he lost the bet. He didn't know how many is nil? I've seen the captain

maybe like once a year or something like that. When he comes to last dayas and all I have to do is say, Captain, maybe nil, and he'll just die laughing because one of his favorite stories of all time. You know, So that the Craze offered you to make a bet, you better make the bet. I would tell you that you didn't want to mess with him. I'll do that every once in a while, too crazy. But what I'm watching, and I don't watch soccer that often, but when it comes up, I'll say to somebody'd be like,

what is nil? What is nil? And they have no idea what I'm talking about. Um, let me go back, because we have just a couple of seconds here. Let me go back to the story you told earlier about the Sunday night football game, Psycho James. The great story you told earlier this hour, Um, the mental cruelty story that Sunday night game between the Bears and the Vikings.

And again, you know, historically speaking, has nothing to do with the story specifically, but historically speaking, neither the Vikings nor the Redskins were the one or two seed in the NFC. They both ended up playing that scabbyar in the NFC Championship. The Redskins went on to win the Super Bowl UM, but that Sunday night game, which the Vikings ended up losing and mattered much in the standings, ultimately UM for that home field ultimately in the NFC playoffs.

What was the detail that you got wrong? And the reason I ask the detail you got wrong in the book is I think I remember it differently too, And I always find this fascinating how collectively we have a memory, shared memory that is not true. You know. You know a lot of people know my wife had a brain tumor, and I wanted them learning a lot about the brain, just as I tried to understand everything I could about it. And it is fascinating how you can have these shared

memories that are totally wrong. And I remember the way I remembered it was that the Bears had to score a touchdown and they didn't. All they had to do was get a field goal because they were down by one. I thought they were down by four, and that's what I got wrong in the game. I thought that they needed to score a touchdown. But you know that was you know, I don't know what it was. Maybe just Bill and I talked really what I found out, you know, as I said, I I tried to find out a

few things about the brain. One of these things that they have. I don't know if it's a theory or proven or what, but when something happens you, you you actually don't remember it. You remember the last time you remembered it. So if there's a link in the chain that gets messed up more along the line, that's kind of like, you know, engraved in your brain somewhere, so you know that it's it's kind of a fascinating thing. Now.

I don't know if they've proven it, not much that board vance and knowledge of the brain, you know, but that that was the thing that they said, you actually don't remember the event hasn't occurred. You remember the last time you remember it. You know, it's interesting to me, fascinating. By the way, there's a term for this, and I

can't come up with what the term for this. Someone will tweet us there's a there's an actual term for what we're describing about a shared memory that is actually incorrect but has somehow pervaded pop culture in a lot In a lot of cases, this one's not exactly pop culture. My thing about this game is for some reason, like if you told me it was Gary Gentry, I would have been like, no, it wasn't it was Dennis McKinnon, Like, I just don't remember it being Gary Gentry. So something

about that game specific, right, Yeah. Interesting. Someone will hopefully tweet us exactly what the term for that is, because it's an interesting work. And there it is Kelly's and my Kelly Bidlin, Uh, my producer today in my air, the Mandela effect, the Mandela effect, because there's a lot of people and I believe it traces back to some shared collective memory that Nelson Mandela had passed away in jail, but he never did, but somehow a huge portion of

our society thought of him that way. So it's it's something called the Mandela effect. We'll come back maybe some adventures in bad bookmaking next. We'll see from Chrissy right here on a numbers game at Visa. Welcome back to a numbers game with you, Alexander, my producer today, Kelly Boland and I, uh sort of tripping out over this Mandela effect that we were talking about. Chrissy. Um, you know,

just an example that that came to mind. I was right that It's called the Mandela effect because for some reason there was a huge swath of population that believed that Nelson Mandela had died in prison, when in fact, of course, he never did. He got out of became president of South Africa. There's other things in our pop culture.

But just to give another example, I don't know why I thought of this, the old Sally Field Oscar acceptance speech, where like the rest of the world, like most people think, she said you like me, you really really like me. She never said that, like, she never said that at all, but that's how we all remember it. In fact, yeah, she said this time, I feel it, and I can't deny the fact that you like me right now, you like me, So it just becomes something that it's not.

That's just one example that left him up. But there's tons of these, um But anyway, that bears Vikings game. I'm sure we have a lot of those in sports. Do you want to end with some adventures in bad bookmaking? You want to do that? Yeah? That other story we will tell some other times, you know what, you know, the adventures and bad bookmakings. The one that people ask me about all the time was the hockey teasers so let's start with that one. Yes, let's see what happened.

What happened, Um, I was running the county Neva. Uh and again we were doing parley cards year round and it was one of those things where I fought worn on it. I didn't want to do it, but he insisted that we do it. And it's a lot of you know, a couple other places in town wanted to copy us, but they don't just put out the car. You actually have to have the right numbers, etcetera, etcetera.

And it was really a pain. And uh, a guy really helped me quite a bit out of Roxy's office, Scott Kaminski, who was just a great And Scott's had a long career as I have in this business. And uh, Scott h Scott like just a He's had a fantastic career and he's still around. I'm not sure exactly where he's at right now, but I see Scott about once a year. He comes to Las Vegas. We usually have lunch or dinner together. Terrific guy. Anyway, he would help me and we go through all the numbers and it

was really a chore to put these things together. So guys wanted me. Uh, so I was doing to this county Neva. There was some cross ownership with another hotel casino down uh, just down the street called Calm Stock, And like I said, there's some cross ownership including Warren Nelson on the little piece of that. He said, but would you help these guys get their sports book up and running and that sort of thing, and kind of advised them. I'm sure I would have done anything for Warren.

So I did it. I get him up and running. So they get some guy and you know, we still see this today. You know, oh it's a sports book. Well, this guy is a sports fan, he reads the sports page. We'll put him in charge and then he just gets the line and you know, people come in and bed and we'll just make a ton of money. It'll be just like the slot machines. Well, you know, obviously doesn't

work that way. So I put this guy in and he was like about as green as you could ever get out of a guy, a nice guy I'll call Lewis. Lewis would come in and he started calling me like everything, you know, time and time again, calling me, calling me, call me, says listen, Louis, I'm running to Caldela. I'm not running the calm stock. You you have to stand on your own two feet and sometimes but I'll tell

you what to do. Call row Sea Rocks. Bro Roxy was just getting his business off the ground, you know, consulting with sports boots around the state, called Roxy, Roxborow. He'll help you, Okay. So Roxy calls and Roxy starts giving him the line every day and all that he wants to do parley cards, just like we did at County EVA. So Roxy tells him, okay, here's here's what

you do for the parley cards, you know. And this was like towards the end of the football season, so I'm not sure he had basketball on the card, and he might have, but I'm not sure. But Roxy giving him the football line. Here's what he used on the cards. And so Lewis asked, all what about teaser cars? And Roxy as well, you know, he just you know, move six points each way off the line. So you know, he explained it to him and okay, okay, Now at that time, if folks my age, remember we had ties

in hockey. So if you use the game on the parlor card as a half, I mean that was a legitimate line you know you won't see that today naturally, because every game does not end in a time. But if he used the game minus a half, used like the home team two equal teams, the home team would be minus a half. So Roxy gets a couple of hockey games, like four or five hockey games put on the card minus a half. So anyway card goes out, Roxy's calling him now it's like the card I guess

went out, like on Wednesday or whatever. Roxy calls him on Thursday, Lewis, how's everything going. All these teaser cards are the greatest thing in the world. Right then, Roxy knows teaser cards are not the greatest thing in the world. Rocky says, what do you mean, what are you talking about? Because I'm getting so much action on these teaser cards you can't believe it. Right then, Roxy knows, uh, something is wrong. Well, explain to me, you know where, he says, Well,

you know, he starts getting much. But here's the ones I'm getting all the action on. I'm getting two way action on these teaser cards on all these hockey games. This is unbelievable, said he got to be Kidney hockey games on the team card. He says, yeah, I just added six points to each side. Get you get the home team plus five and a half, and you were getting the building plus six and a half. These are all you know, essentially pick them games. You can't do that.

I've got a ton of action, but I'm getting rock and getting two way actions. Those you understand you're gonna lose both sides. He says, you have to stop the card. You have to end there right there. So so he explained it to him, Lewis, I don't know to this day be going up. Well, he understood once the figures came in, needless of saying. They got annihilated that week on their parlay cards onto teaser cards, and uh, the sports book didn't last long after this. I think it

might have closed right after that weekend. And they finally realized, no, you just can't put in some rummy and just figure everything's gonna be just fine. Pep were just gonna come in and blow their money. But you know, that was one of those deals where you put in totally a guy who's green is grass, and that's when happened. So you are you telling us and even the other yeah, go ahead, probably the Dave Cooke and he just eat texted me together. Yes, I gotta ask whatever that was.

His favorite story in the book was the hockey teasers. Whatever happened, Well, big lasts long. Maybe let's just say he's not in the business anymore. So when all of this is, when all of this has passed, when the coronavirus curve, uh finally uh peters out and we're all past this, a sports are being played again. And if hockey comes back, are you suggesting that you will not do a hockey teaser promotion the first weekend? You're not doing that for us? No, nothing like that. I'm not

gonna do that. No. And it was one of those I looked every once in a while when I see a blowout. Oh the team watched by seven one of the games, and every game was like three to two of that week. You know, uh, we have we have four minutes left being that. Oh my god, I can't believe we take so much time. Comes, I'll tell you another quick one involving Rocky. You know Rocky Uh back in the day. This is uh the Ivy League totals. He didn't tell this story the other day, did he? No?

He did not. I love this one, Okay, So Rocky was servicing a guy this again back way back in the day. And uh, this was during the NBA All Star weekend. So it's Friday, and guys don't realize now like on Friday's back then, all you had was that's the only teams that played on Friday. So guy, you know, guy Rocky the service and a bookmaker, I think in South Carolina. And uh, and I said, Rocks, I want to have totals on the Ivy League games. There's nothing to bet on all it got four Ivy League games

in that I don't want to give you totals. They're gonna be bad. So right, it was finally convinced, Right, is there Art, I'll give you the totals, but I'm telling you right now don't take any more in a couple hundred bucks on them. I'm making the totals, and I'm telling you they're not going to be that good. So I said, this is long before the shot clock. Yeah, a lot a bunch of white guys shooting set shops. But it wasn't too far removed from that. So that's

the way was back then. You know, the Rocky getting them the numbers. You know, Okay, Cornell nine seven. Uh, you know Harvard eighty six and a half, Penn two and Dartmouth you know ninety three? Okay a guy, right, Okay, this is great. So Roxy giving them from me in the morning, you know, Roxy Colson in that afternoon. Hey, how's it going. How's those IVY League Coast? Oh my god? These are so great. It's unbelievable. How much action I'm getting.

And again the Rocky click, something's wrong here? What he says, Well, told me, tell me, like, what kind of action you guys? And I can't remember the numbers I just made up and gave me. Says Oh yeah, Well I'm getting like the printing game under one nineties seven. I'm all the way down the under one sixty on for my I didn't tell you nineties. I didn't tell one ninety seven. I told you nineties seven. You're kidding me. I'm not always.

I mean I'm trying to. Hey, and Roxy's like, you gotta have you never paid attention a basketball in your life? A private booman? You tell him nighties seven he's doing a one nine seven. Well say he locked every one of those games too. I don't know how he paid everybody off or seven with all these guys, and uh he was out of business the next week too. So those are a couple of stories and adventures and bad books making. We have a lot more than we can't get to you today, and uh, you know it always

take a little longer than I thought. No, no, no, I mean that's okay. We love we love hearing him. I think the next time, whenever we decided to do this again, and we could do it, you know, short term these days, for sure, we can do it soon. Um, we should just do the Adventures in Bad Bookmaking to start with and see how long that goes, because I think that's fascinating people. And you have a special subsection

that could be its own category, specifically with adventures in making. Yeah, yeah, we'll say yeah, and and and to this special that's awesome, uh you know, and it's funny to this day, Chris. And it doesn't happen that often, but I would say once every four to six months, I'll get a hockey teaser tweet like that story lingered in people's minds. Yeah, I'll still talk about that. Um, I appreciate it. The name of the book again. Then one day Adventures in

Bad bookmaking Chris, stay safe. Don't let me hear that you're back in a casino through a back entrance. Okay, it's gonna be a lot, it's gonna be a while. I can tell you that, alright, man, have a great day. Stay safe again, Chris on Twitter. By the way, at Andrew's Sports, the beloved Chrissie, Andrew's kind enough to join us for another couple of hours right here on a numbers game at Visa in these sports betting network hope it serves as a distraction for you in these very strange,

uncertain times. Enjoy your day, Stay safe with you and your loved ones.