Beating The Book: Alan Boston

Some baseball season win totals, for instance, from Roxy and Jason Weingarten Roxy Roxboro that is perhaps scaled back to whatever length of a season will get that kind of thing today, something brand new. This is from my interview last week with Alan Boston, had never aired on Visa until just this week we put it in podcast form. Allen Boston, his origin, how he became the man and the better that he is today, The arc of his life is a better exclusively right here on the Beating

the Book podcast. Enjoy It is a numbers game right here at Visa in the Vegas Stats and Information Network, the Sports Betting netwhere Gil Alexander um, this is a privilege today It's actually an honor. And I really mean that, and I know that kind of makes uh my guest here today feel a little uncomfortable perhaps, but it really is, uh a profile of one of the great iconic betters in the United States has been for many decades. And just happy to have a chance to sit down and

talk to him, the great Alan Boston. What's happening, man? Thank you for coming in. That's the that's w Yeah, well, I appreciate you coming in. That intro doesn't make you feel uncomfortable, doesn't that you're that I consider you iconic in this field? Uh, it does, but it probably shouldn't. And reflecting upon what's out there today, we'll get we'll

get to that. Can I start at the beginning, I think wherever you want, I think, I think people some people are very familiar with you, most perhaps in this day and age, are not, and I want to remedy that. Can we start the beginning, like, just tell us where you grew up, how you grew up, and how it is that you first gravitated towards betting in general. Uh So, having always been a very uh self reflective person, I grew up in Brighton, mass which is a suburb of

Boston which is now the High Rent District. But when I lived there, certainly wasn't. My parents got married young nineteen and twenty, that had me nine months later. Uh, best friend growing up with Howie, and we saw each other my mother and his mother literally walked us in strollers, so I literally have known him my whole life. He's two months older than me, and his mother became like

my second mother. But my mother was twenty when she had me, and Ray was I think forty five when she had Howie, and how he was a lonely child with with with older parents and the dynamic was difficult for him. And Uh, anyway, my father got a job in uh Framingham, which is uh it might have been Worster first Worcester, which is sixty miles west of Boston. We moved to Framingham and what they would now call

the hood, but we called it limited income housing back then. Uh, and uh that move probably uh was I mean, even though I'm only seven years old, it was a very very uncomfortable dynamic for a very very long time. And probably it's probably the start of I mean, it sounds strange, but probably the start of how I ended up, uh choosing to be in a field that that that's more woner driven than than something normal for lack of a better word, Uh there, Yeah, there is a a social

aspect to what we do. Perhaps, yeah, not not not the way I do it. Uh So yeah, loan are driven, That's that's definitely. Uh do you remember the first time that you, oh, right, go ahead? And I'm sorry I don't. Yeah, I mean we're not even close to the betting part yet. Uh. I'm just I'm just, I'm really I I know I get a long winded and wind bom but I really try to explain thoroughly like where I'm coming from least, and the only way to do it is to really try to give a picture of of me the person.

So here, I am feeling alone without my best friend in in in a in a new place. And I remember someone called me one day and I did break his nose. So that was the last time he used that word. But how old were you then? Eight? Wow? Yeah? But all this was foreign to me. I didn't know, you know, like Alan Boston kind of to join us here on a Numbers Game special best of edition of a Numbers Game right here at Visa the Sports Betting Network. Alan,

the idea of racism to me is is bizarre. We're all human beings, Like what does what does anyone think they're better than them? Or it's it's uh. And like I said, I lived in a very mixed bad community. So when you're young, you're you're you know my my my best friend had a mixed mixed parent and one of my friends in from him. Dad was white and his mother was African American. I guess the best way

to say it, big deal. You know, it didn't matter, so you know, uh so that yeah, that that was that that word was hurtful, but but he didn't say it again after that. But it did kind of, like, you know, set me more towards a shell. So, uh, what people wouldn't know about me? It was I probably was more athletic than it was smart, which is probably a big surprise. Uh And and really had a great knack for playing baseball. And so there's the uh, the

rub is I love baseball. But at five years old, I had my mother had me take when I now know was an i Q test, and I know I did very well with because I remember one of the I remember there was a question that that got her. You know, I was rattling the answers off and her jaw dropped and like, uh, so my young parents know they have a smart kid. What they don't know is

the smart kid wanted to play baseball. And now I come to an area I don't know anybody, and I don't really have opportunities to to you know, like you know, play a pickup game or or or do anything like that. So I was already driven into a small circle there and I and I'm doing all this for a reason. At eight years old, my father took me to Hinsdale Raceway, which is in New Hampshire, quite a long ride. His had a horse racing. The name of the horse was

Beth Dexter. I don't know I remember that, but I do. Wayne Colby drove I think for Gordon Corey, who still trained and ultimately trained a horse for me, uh fifty years later, so uh, Gordon Cory's from Manizo awesome old school naturally harness trainer. The horse did win by a nose, and uh that's probably kind of the start of my love of Gambly eight years old watching a horse went by the thinnest of margins. It was a finished print. And uh, back then it took a while. They had

actually wait for the photograph to finished. To see you one, Uh, several trips to hornors tracks later and uh a rough marriage. And you know what I talked about earlier, the too early knowing that we're mortal really drove me into this uh inner inward, bitter in a coal human who found uh solace and peace of mind at the race track. So now baseball is out. In fact, everything's out. I didn't want to see anybody. What was the point? And uh so now I've got a pen, which I shouldn't

have gone to. Uh. I wasn't ready for college because I hadn't allowed myself to get out there at all. You know. Ah, but you're obviously super smart enough to get into pen. It was easier to get into back then. But yeah, I'm not denying my intelligence. I definitely have a probably higher IQ than most. Uh can I can? I let me just interrube one thing you said there. I just want to clarify for people you said, uh

that you knew mortality? You knew that? Did I miss what you were talking about specifically there when we were had that interview? And I think I went through a very painful segment. I could I could redo it. Uh, when you understand that you're gonna die at the age of thirteen, it's it's young, it's too young. And when it coincides with your parents breakup. Uh, then what's the point of falling in love? Right? It's it's number one, you're gonna die anyway. And number two, look what look

at it might end up anyway. So at the time that I should have been interested in girls, I was interested in hanging out in the closet in a room, I mean, just by myself. I didn't want to, uh interact with anybody. For those who don't remember that, what was the part where you thought you were gonna buy thirteen, that you might not be with us anymore? That wasn't no, no, no, no, you missed you missing it. I understood that that everything

does end. You don't understand that at thirteen. Typically. In fact, in the movie Boyhood, the kid asked, uh, Ethan Hawk, you know, what's the point of all this? And and Ethan Hawk brilliantly answered, I don't know. We're all just winging it. But he was eighteen in that film, and this kid was a very evolved human, and and and the movie and the movie in some ways mirrored his his uh, his his life. So you know, if if it dawned on him around seventeen eighteen, imagine thirteen is

a little on the light side. Sure be understanding that. And then that thought could be, you know how I have. I don't know if other you know, I'm young, I'm a kid. I'm thirteen years old. I don't know anything. You don't know if other people even understand that, And and so you really don't want to bring it up because you don't want to make other people what if they don't understand, you know, and and so you just

don't bring it up. I always picture the world like just saying, all right, if someone out there, we're gonna stop living, which we're about to do here, by the way, Uh all right, everybody was stopping, So tell us what this is all about. You know, we're recording this during

the coronavirus pandemic. That's why Alan makes that comment. So with all that background, then as you say, you're probably not prepared to go to college, but yet you're at Penn, then yeah, I'm at Penn and now I go to the Plus tra and I watched with Salin Duquine the City schools played their games at the plusure then because it was before. It's when people played for the love of the game and not because it was big money involved. Uh. I dare say more kids enter sports because of the

big paycheck now than because they love to play. Right, the kids used to play you know, like, uh, football in the fall, hockey to winter, and and baseball in the spring. And now they choose a sport and spin or sixty five days a year, so that whole dynamic has changed too. They have coaches when they're you know, six, seven, eight years old. The whole thing is just crazy, but it's understandable given the fact how much money these pros make.

You know, when you're making way more than a doctor, you may as well spend time on sports then on academics. But you're right, it was totally normal to just switch sports every season. That and and fun. Uh So yeah, here I am at Pennon and uh I watched Duquesne and LaSalle and I like, wow, that point guard for Duchane is really good. It turned out it was normal Nixon,

so yeah, he was pretty good. Uh. And I used to buy the New York uh Daily News and in the New Art Daily News there was a little calumn called the Latest Line. The Latest Line was by a gentleman named Jim McCarthy might have been Jim McCarthy Jr. But he wrote all these a little alliterated blurbs that are often kind of clever. Take Manhattan to SINC. Navy. I mean, you know, so it's a little cliche Sinc. Navy, but it he had better stuff than that. And you

know he listed the lines. And this is nineteen seventies. You know, this is the Dark Ages. You could barely get a score in a game. That's what people now couldn't possibly understand how much different it is now than then. It's it's it's like even seventies to eighties was different, and the eighties is a Dark Ages compared to now. So you're lucky if you can get a score in a game. Sometimes it took a day or two to

get a West Coast score. In the East Coast. Uh to get updates, you used to have to fiddle with the radio to try to get W and S New York. At quarter past the hour, they would update all the scores. Uh. So if we're still in the bottom of the fifth inning, you knew you were rallying like for two consecutive updates. You something good with that? That's how did it? Uh? So I'll try to get I'll try to fast forward this a little bit. So I I was aware of what the lines were because they were in New York

Dale News. I was also aware that people could pick winners in this game. But I wondered, how, I mean, how do you get information on the crighton Missouri State game when you're southwest Missouri State at the time, when you're living you can barely get a score on it. How did these so called wise guys know who's gonna win? So I was intrigued. UH. Graduate college read a book

called The Handicapper by Robert Kaylich. Page one and two of The Handicapper is this, uh handicapper the man that turns out and he gets this manic influx of phone calls UH with all this information because you could not get information back then. There was no Internet, there was no nothing. It was just they completely winged it. That's what it was so intriguing. UH. And he put all this information into his internal at a base and he just winged out the winners. And after reading the book,

which was not the cheeriest of books. But uh, I said, you know, I would like to be that guy someday. And you know, I guess and in a lot of ways I I succeeded. Wasn't was it or failed? As my one of them might think. No, no, I'm sure she doesn't. But you know, I'm curious. Was it about, you know? Was it your love of sports? Maybe it was? Maybe it was all these things. Actually the only sport I didn't watch was basketball, So no, it wasn't that

I love baseball. How interesting? But what was it? What was it about basketball handicapping? Then? Specifically, it's the it's the unknown. It's that how do these guys know? That's what was intriguing. How the hell do you know when you can't even get a score in a game? How do you know who's gonna win some game when you can't get a score? And and it was no information, nothing. It was nothing for us on the East coast too.

It was normal for us if there was a late basketball game from the West coast, the next morning's paper would never have it. We'd have to wait another day to get that. Yeah, so do you remember acknowledging in your head? You didn't even have to verbalize this at

the time. But you remember, do you ever? Do you remember and acknowledging that, in addition to being fascinated by the actual subject matter, that it would also afford you to not have to deal with other people, maybe like it was, Oh, here's this, here's a vocation, here's something I can do where I can actually just be by myself. And did you remember that speaking to you? Not? I don't really remember much because then the eighties was an attempt to hide from all these painful thoughts, and I

did it. You know, Coke was very relevant. I certainly found it. I remember the first time I got a line of my friend and I were driving to Artford tele Theater about Yonkers Raceway. I'm a big Horness fan. Not anymore, they ru when that came too, But uh, at the time I was a honest nut and UH did very well betting horness races. Again, I I well, others looked at the obvious. I looked at what was going on at the back of the pack, and that's where you found the most information out at Hornors Race.

So uh, I've always had that. My mind has always worked logically. I can't fall a TV show. I can't read directions and follow it. If you were directions on how to build uh this this phone, put together the phone, I couldn't do it. But logically, I'll solve your relationship problem in two seconds. You know. It's just just that part of my brain works in in a in a very good manner. Ah. So no, I I got myself

in trouble betting. I ultimately worked for a bookmaker to work off my debt and did so for many years, and at some point the FBI, the state police raided my house. Uh why do they want me? I'm just a clerk, just the guy who worked for a bookmaker. Certainly they know that, you know. But it turns out that one of the guys I I met to help out as part of the game was exchanging information with the state cop. So by indirectly, I got put in with him, and they thought I was some big deal.

But that was nothing. So when I raided my house, they didn't find anything because I'm nobody. Seriously, they had my heart. They had stacks of Hunter's programs with That's what they carried out of there, and they were piste and uh. It also helped that I knew they were coming, so I, you know, maybe get rid of some drugs that were there. And uh, it's just sorry, s uh statute of limitations has expired. Yeah, I was nobody. I wouldn't hurt a fly. Believe there's not a mean bone

in my body. So so so yeah, yeah, this this, this, this has purpose to Uh so I'm in Vegas when I get a call your trials coming up, and and of course we beat the case. In fact, the judge in the case was Judge Zovel. He later did a very famous case, uh that shaking baby case with a nanny. He was the judge in that case. His wife was a judge to a brilliant guy. I remember when he first postponed it. He said, uh so we're gonna postpone this from June fourteenth Flag Day to the more ominous

July fourteenth bast Steel Day. And I'm like, this guy is awesome. That's that's awesome, just bringing that out like that. Also, I remember when I was first pleading the kid beforehim, he was up for murder and now I'm up and he says, you know name, etcetera. You know, did you go to college? Said yes, would you go as a University of Pennsylvania. Did you graduate? Yes, degree biological basis behavior. And the judge like looking like, what the hell are

you doing here? Like this is the first kid. This kid was up for burder and I'm up for that's over telephone or something, you know, some nonsense. Anyway, the judge ended up yelling at the d A and said, don't ever bring a case like this in front of me again, because they had nothing on me, because I was nobody, literally have nobody. I'm just a kid who was answering telephones working up at debt. Now you clossed over something. What was your major? Biological basis behavior? What

is what? Like premed it's FREMD, it's it is, it's I just interviewed a kid who's who's uh majoring in it too. I said, you know what, I was a guinea pig for that. They it was an experiment. They were trying. They were they were they were teaching to sciences in a typically different order. They taught physics before uh biology. I think, I don't know. They just had some set thing. But it also allowed a lot of freedom of choosing classes. So I took some anthropology, I

took a lot of psychology. Uh, but I had no idea what I wanted to do. I I wanted to teach school. But school teachers don't make any money. You had no idea, but you kind of knew. I kind of want to be a school teacher. School make money. Yeah, if they got paid? You would you be a school teacher today? What do you think you would teach with English? I have the whole I have the whole thing scheduled.

In fact, I was gonna do it anyway. I told Chad when we were doing the book that you know, if I have another good year, I'm done, referring to the odds the book that yeah, the year before we had killed it. The year before the odds we had absolutely killed it. We will want so much money. It was nuts, Like the I R S is very happy with me that year. Uh. And the next year I did pretty good. But then I maybe, you know, I

maybe I didn't know my head. I built a really expensive house and I tried to keep the mortgage down. And you know, I never had planning. I just did everything by day. I know, worried about anything. That's why this whole coronavirus thing, it doesn't even phaze me. It is what it is. It's just life. You know, it happens. It's let's go back to your court your court date

there how from that point forward. All right, So I'm found innocent, and now I'm told you gotta get out of town, Allen, because they'll plant evidence that they have to. Really okay, I had met someone, uh during the Wild Series of Poker, which I came out for every year since eighty three, and Jeff Star was his name. He passed away a couple of years ago. I'll probably visit his wife while him out here. Uh yeah, Caro'll be pistove, don't visitor. And he said, you know you can always

come out here. Will make money. Now I had no idea what he meant by will make money. And I didn't know him that well. I knew he had money. Uh he kind of lived uh very freely, and and we got along great. So I thought I thought it would be a good thing. But I wasn't gonna go out there cold. And this is probably the only one of the more until it was one of the smarter things I did. So that summer I bought a uh a college a college football book, and I really was

very wrong on how I created my power ratings. I think I looked at some final scores and started with a final score, and then from there looked at the final scores and jotted down a bunch of numbers. Right, based on final scores. You based on the result, not what actually happened. Right, But I had no way of finding out what happened, because this is nineteen eight or

eight seven eight eight somewhere on there. Uh. And then I bought the Sporting News and and found out who was coming back, and then changed my ratings again not really properly. But the first week, I said, listen, the STARTUS puts the line up at six o'clock on Sunday night. Here's what I made the eight game this week. Do what you want. And sure enough, I remember the first one he bet was Washington State plus six against Illinois at home, and I made it pick and a closed

pick in Washington State one we had plus six. There were bigger moves back then. The lines weren't as strong because it was you know, it was less information. It wasn't a computer ages. There was a bunch of guys trying to figure out a line, and and and you know they did a good job. They really did. And in retrospect, you know, Scotty had guys who knew what

they were doing. But like, even if I put up a line today, let's say some guy, random guy on the street who knows something about college basketball, if I put the line up to him, he's gonna beat me because he has a choice of finding where I made a mistake. Now, maybe he's not gonna beat me for as much as I beat him, I would gather that's the truth because I've just better at it and I've

had more experience. But uh, and where he think I might have made a mistake, I might actually have not might not have made a mistake, right, So uh, referring to the fact that the bookmaker has to put up a line for everything, but choose so even on my eleven of ten, if you know what you're doing, you have the edge. That's the whole point of being a

sports better. Uh. Well, you can be like some of the people today and just get out there and claim you do everything and why about it and hope something good happens. That's that's the other approach. We're gonna get to that anyway. So, was that late eighties early nineties. We're talking, we're talking late eighties. I'm at I got. I went to the HIGHERT Regency in Cambridge every night. Al Wnch was the bartender. I had no money. I remember I used to nurse and amstell light. It was

two dollars. I left the dollar for her tip. He had uh free nuts there, so I got to munch on the Monday night football. They had free hot dogs and popcorn back then. Remember Richie Schwartz was also a very famous USh Thoroughbred handicapper who recently passed away. But he would come in and visit me just for the free forgot dogs of popcorn. He was so cheap. Uh, but it was a beautiful hotel I met. I met Hulk Hogan there and uh I met Christopher walking there.

Where was the Cambridge exactly? It's right right border in the m I T campus, right on the Charles River. So the Cambridge in in Cambridge, Mass right on the Charles River there, right, that's right I lived. I lived in Watertown at the time, which is I lived ten minutes away. So it was a very nice place to drink. And again I could be by myself. It wasn't a disco, which we're you know, a little more popular. Well they

had phased out by them. But you know, I could bring my bullet and do my cocaine and drink, have a very nice night, and I'd work on my power ratings. So when the time came for me to leave, did the coke focus? You didn't help focus? You? You You think I just got high? It was good back then. The coke today sucks, but back then it was really good. Sorry, yes, so what I mean, you know if that, if that bothers somebody too, it's just it's just ru I mean,

drugs are drugs are drugs? What do you think? What do you think? Mentally real people get So when people are depressed, a people who can't sleep, they get drugs. So vegas then permanently. How did that happen? So I told my friend these are the games I made. It turns out that every game moved the way I thought it would move. My lines were good. So he said, all right, I'll give a couple of hundred of game, and and he got me a place to say. My job, ironically,

was to take care of some dogs. So the dogs got well cared for naturally, and uh, and you know, I remember at two games I've had and now you know, he was betting. He bet eight games to start, and now we were betting five thousand a game. Uh. And he would do what he want with the rest of it, and I would have my two hundred. He was a little uh, he was a little uh tight. Uh. Maybe he was a sweetheart. He wouldn't he wouldn't. Yeah, No,

he was a sweetheart. He had a good heart, but with money, he was a little uh, a little rough around the edges. Uh And and ultimately that's what made it very difficult for me to work with him. So when basketball starts, I found I found a book of power writings. I have no idea who they were, and I started with them and created my own and just worked that season just on you know, just on my

own pretty much. Ultimately, my friend Howard Letter and his crew, he knew, he knew, I knew what I was doing with uh football, and I think it was or so and I was kind of laying dormant, and he asked me, do you want a handicap as a sure And he gave me like five as a game, which is nothing, but it's better than nothing. And we're killing it. And now at seven o'clock one morning, and I never did ask him about this, I get a call, read, yes, Bill Walters here, Huh. I think I might have something

that's good for both of us. Can you meet me at the country club? But h I said, I'm not a country cover, Mr Walters, we do you want to meet? And so now I I had met him once. We didn't get along. Uh. He was a bit condescending and I was young, and it wasn't a good match. He was very professional and I was very new and he didn't realize how new I was, and just the whole talk didn't go well, the whole That's kind of irrelevant because now he has called me, and so we meet

at Ellis Island. That's where I chose. Now, Ellis Island at the time was the biggest die bar in Vegas. Maybe that in the dispensary. I don't know. I can't remember the old die bars, but Ellis Island was one of them, same location as it is today, Cold lull Layne. Yeah, I assume it's still there, real sleeves bar. So I try to pick the place so he would hate most but I loved, I loved I loved I love Dallis Island and read is what you went by? Yeah, I had red hair, lots of it, well, not lots of it.

That was the problem, my good feature. That's why I lost it. Red hair and hazel eyes. Yeah not not not your typical jew combination. Not really, not right out any any I was a mutant basically. Some would definitely agree with that too. So he starts telling me why I should work with him, and I said, well, I said, all right, is it my turn? He said yeah. I said, well, last time we talked, you were condescendle. So I don't see why I should work with you. Like, I don't know,

I want to deal with you. Uh. I appreciate your honesty, rid you know, he had the right rebuttal as usual, long story. Show up my buddy Oscar, who again is no longer with us. Uh. I talked to him and he said, no, he couldn't stand Mr Walters, but that that's that's for another day. He said, ask him twenty dollars a game now. I probably had twenty dollars in my pocket. Ask the game now, that's ridiculous, he said, you're you're you're an idiot. Then He's like, he's calling

me an idiot for not asking that. So all right, well, I guess I'll ask for a lot like I don't know, like, uh, you know, I'm getting five hundred dollars a game I had so between ultimately I we met at the Sterling Brunch. It was the first brunch in Vegas that was really, really fancy. It was at Bally's. Loreo was the maitre d and they ran him out at some point. I really I wish I could say goodbye to him or

aload to him. I remember I ran into one of the waiters there years later at the gym and he told me Areo had just been railroaded out of there, and but he was. He was still doing fine. But this was six years ago now. But he was one of those old school Vegas matre d's who just knew how to make you feel welcome. It's it was just

an incredible talent to have, uh. And the Sterling Brunch was this gorgeous array of food where fresh squeezed orange juice and fresh brewed coffee at the table, and you know, it's like seventy dollars in the nineties, it was just insane. But that's where I met Mr Watson and I said, all right, I want I want twelve thousand dollars pay to live on and I want up to twelve thousand game And he said, uh, well what about ten? I said, this is when out here to bargain and she asked

no question, and he's all right, we gotta deal. Well, he must have known you were good, though, But the question is how did he know it was me that that That's what I have to ask him because when I was betting with with with Howard and and his crew, he had a bunch of handicap as. It wasn't just me. So how do they know it was me that that they we started really you know, bombing Monday mornings with They went out on Monday morning just started you know, betting,

and you still do you still don't know? Answer? What if you get a chance to ask him? All yeah, I'm I'm going to if he ever gets out of jail. This is a real sin but uh yeah, I wan't. Well we'll skip that topic. That's that's a real sore source subject because he definitely he definitely didn't do what they claim he did. Like there's just no chance the guy spent a half a million dollars one day. I called him up on day Well, Red, I spent a half million dollars to make sure what we're doing is legal.

Spent a half a million dollars to make sure what we're doing is illegal. That guy, the guy who spent the half million dollars to make sure what we're doing is legal, is not going to pick up a phone from some known scumbag who's going to tell him to buy this stock, and he's gonna put that phone down and pick up the other phone or buy me options. Uh, you know the April fifties on this. You know it's

not gonna happen. Yeah, and didn't happen. Just referring to just to clarify, referring to Billy Walter's uh, the Dean Foods insider trading that it was, I just know what didn't happen that that he wouldn't do that. Number one, the money didn't matter that much, and number two, he was too careful. Walters was accused of and convicted for insider trading in that case Dean Foods. Um So he said yes, I said yes. So we worked and we

worked successfully for many many years. I did the basketball on my own with uh again Howard, who I never I never actually asked him. I feel bad about this, actually I never asked him. By the way, his what Mr Walters offer, but do you want to match it? I just didn't think that five would become twelve thousand, you know. But but he he should have been asked. Howard's last name Letterer, later famous for full tilt poker

hated actually for no reason at all. Again, people, you know, make assumptions and then have mass hysteria like a day of the Locust kind of thing, like what's going on now again with this coronavirus where it's it's I'm sure it's I'm sure it's evil, but I'm sure it's not as bad as uh, you know, they're making it seem or they're not telling us something like it's not a deadly virus. It's very contagious, but from what I've read, it is not deadly unless you're old like me, And

all right, well, I'll be a guinea pig. I don't care. I mean, something's gotta wipe this, point it out, because almost every single creatures in danger besides humans, and that that can't be nature has to get even somehow, So hopefully I wish there was some disease that just pinpointed, uh, those people who want to kill elephants, that's that would That was my goal at eight years old, by the way, I wanted to be uh, making enough money to hire mercenaries to go down to Africa and just kill anyone

that even looked at an elephant the wrong way? Eight years old? You had eight years old? That was my dream, Yeah, it might have been nine. Were you aware throughout all this arc like you you correct me if I'm wrong. You're very introspective. You're very analytical, Like are you even at eight? Were you aware, keenly aware of every little thought that you had? And did you think to yourself, this is not normal this age, that's what job? No, because I'm a kid, What do I know? I just

assume everyone knows everything. You know, you don't, you don't the mortality thing I knew was was probably hovering, like you know, because how can everyone be so happy knowing all this? Like you know, all that raw raw? High schools really would offend me because here I am thinking total opposite they were. They're thinking how wonderful everything is? And I'm thinking how horrible everything is. You know, it's where the where the drugs escape, or where the drugs

just definitely escape. They were definitely a band aid. Uh and still are. Yeah. But I'm you know, I'm not a rehab I'm not. I'm not. I'm not struggling with a drug addiction. I enjoy it on occasion, and sometimes it's more than on occasion. But yeah, I think I had my my best basketball season was I was whacked out of my mind every single day. It's interesting. So so with Billy, now, are you just doing college hoops or you doing other sports? I'm just doing college football,

college football only a football in college hoops? Are doing on my own again, Howard and uh my partner Billy a different Billy. They put a hundred and fifty each other. And uh so with three way partners, you do the work and you get a third and we won. Uh I think we want three that year. Uh And I said, oh, okay, screw you guys. I'm putting up my own hundred thousand. So I didn't want anyone put up money. Pol I don't think that's right. Uh, But without it, I would

have had a start. So you know I did. I did get lucky in that regard that that Mr Walters came along and I still did my thing with Mr Walters, and I made money every year with him. I never had a losing year in football. And uh and and and and we we started to that pretty big with the basketball. I mean at some point we were pretty big Betters and you and you you smile when you say that, so pretty good. It was one day, I mean, so I'll tell this story. There's one day I Uh.

I just told the story to Matt of the three m W crew that Herb Syndick was coaching, as he said, it was playing Bobby Kremen's. And this was back when second clocks and you know, being a good coach mattered more because you could control tempo and control the game a lot more than you can now. Uh So coaching matter a lot more back then, and and psychology matter a lot more. But but that that that's for another day. So I wanted to bet Ncy State. This was like,

this was later in the year. Uh, they needed this game like blood they were they kind of would have been considered probably on the bubble. It would be bubble talk. Now there was no fraud naughty around there to torch Us with this, but uh, he's he's wow, Uh fraud Nardi reference Caches on the show. Yeah, Froddia. It's just talking about somebody who knows absolutely nothing about basketball, who's

who seems to have relevance. What a shame? Uh this late eighties with Cremens early eighties later, we've moved up the ladder here where we've uh no, no, we've we've we've had some success. And you'll hear how much success in about a minute. This is Circer. So the lines wanted to happen two, and I made it three. I made Georgia Tech three, but I wanted to bet NC State plus three. Now I had to. You know, I have my own way of doing things that that you

know right or wrong. It's how I did it. You know, there was no handbook on how to do it. So I just winged it and and I hope that it worked out. And and you know, for the most part, I did I I I only recently realized when I did a podcast with Jeffrey Barr and Rufus Peabody that I I what I what I've done is is is actually rather incredible so not bragging, but I never thought, I just I'm just the guy betting sports. What's the

big deal? You know, I didn't realize that some of my thoughts were like, you know, ahead of so ahead of the game. It's crazy, But it was just it was just sheer luck or you know, just that part of my brain works well, and I think, you know, maybe a combination of both. So anyway, I started, I laid the one and a half, and I started laying

all the twos on the screen. And typically you know, it was back then where it's not as ridiculous it is now where where these people see a line moving, they move without a bet, which is totally opposite what we should be doing. Uh So, a long story short, which is unusual for me. I end up with seventy two dollars on Georgia Tech, but I like NC State Now, seventies two thousand dollars is a large bet for us.

Never mind I have it on the wrong side. Well, I call my buddy Oscar up, and I said, uh, see what you can get on NC State plus three and and and if you have to buy plus three minus twenty, that's okay too, because we're bending the law here. So he came back with a D seventeen thousand off screen and buy off screen. I mean the don best screen wasn't affected by it. All right, Well that's good. Now we have a pretty big bet on the right side.

So now we can just go and you know, bet the rest of our hours we had someone who helped us. I told him go get you know, plus three three minus twenty and we finished it and we ended up with this you humongous been on NC State, which as soon as we were done, Betty, Mr Walter is about the same side. So now it's gone from one and a half Georgia Tech to three Georgia Tech to now one and a half Ency State, right, and they want by a hundred like but I had never gone out

in a limb like that. And and my partner, who was a little conservative, was never never blanked. I gotta give him credit, like, you know, he let this lunatic just do whatever you wanted to do. And uh, anyway, that that was. That was one of my better moments.

I I the reason I wanted to get three was if I made it three and I and and I thought, that's what the relative difference in strength of the two team is, but I had these other reasons besides what goes into that rating to make me think one team was going to beat the other. I wanted to be able to get what I made the number because I knew I had an edge at that number. I don't know how if I have an edge of two and

a half, but I know at three. All these reasons that I have for betting NC State are gonna give me some advantage at the number three. In this instance, I cheated a little bit for poster re Mindus morning, but also because we had so much on the wrong side that didn't really matter. So the Pluster Mindus twenty would cover the wrong side and we'd actually have our

bet at post three. If you if you recall that as being a highlight, do you recall a similar low light where you were like, oh this, Oh yeah, laid pick with Texas Tech against St. John's in the n I t it closed St. John's too, and St. John's got the last ten of the game to win by one. Geez. Oh, it's like that St. John's Georgetown game the other day where St. John's closed it to nothing. I lost that one too, Yeah, I lost both the Saint John Rodgtown

game today. We were talking about that St. John's was twenty ahead in the first game lost and then twenty three otis in the in the second game when we had we lost both ends of it. And then I asked Matt, so, think about how many times we were twenty ahead and lost and how many times we were twenty behind in one and come back to me with what you come up with. And yeah, I got you. All right, you're right. So the eighties and mainly perhaps even more the nineties and then the early two thousand's

were sort of the heyday for you. Yeah, i'd say the Yeah, the early two thousand's, uh, right around when the Odds was written. Actually, ironically he wrote it the year after that, the year after I did that NC State thing. But we we were actually that year we were head. I mean, I could, I'll spend it. Whatever is it make I'll spend you know, it's it's it's so long ago. We're at one point two million after

a month. This is a three way partnership, which isn't insane amount of money like to one in a month, like we didn't bet that much big, but it's not that much and I remember when February hit, we we did the figures and we're stuck thousand, like, h this isn't good. And from then on in we won every single We won virtually every single game the rest of the year, like we just killed it. And part of that win was that NC State game where we're just on this big role. Uh. Yeah. That was a good year.

And that year, our friend, a friend of of of my partner, uh was diagnosed with brain cancer, and we had agreed that we're going to give well, they they were giving tempers out of the profits to them. I only gave five. I didn't even know the guy, but I'll throw five percent. And I barely knew him. I I knew him to say hello, ah, And when he

came to town, we happily said here. By the way, we did pretty good in those days, Alan, because if you could bet a lot, you could bet a lot, and and it was people knew bookmakers knew that you were this successful, and they moved. It's not like today, not at all. Well, I mean, maybe someone will come in and and maybe we'll maybe someone will actually hire a real bookmaker, which I'm hoping it happens in Vermont

I'm a guy in Vermont speaking with me. They trying to legalize sports betting up there, and I'm trying to get a friend who we all know to go up there and do it. And and I'd love to help. If you have a real bookmaker, a real bookmaking operation instead of these uh be encounters are known absolutely nothing. Come in and and actually book bets. You see how it's supposed to be done and how the business is

supposed to be run. Yeah, you want to know what smart guys are betting because it helps form your line. I mean, Mr McCarron knows that he used to open up. He used to get abuse for opening a stale line to somebody, but he had a reason for doing it. If you let's say so, let's say let's say this five games. Okay, let's just pick San Diego States, uh eleven, you and l these three and a half, Colorado States

four and a half. This is the present line. Okay, we'll just do four games to make it less confusing. So Sandego States eleven, you l vast three three and a half, Colorado States four and a half, and uh New Mexico's uh pick with air force. Those four games and that's the present line. Now someone calls me and so right, we're opening and they opened me San Diego State nine and a half and the games eleven everywhere. Now you could be you could be saying, well, what's

this guy doing? You know? But when I say pass, he knows that he can open this game nine and a half very very safely. And information from that. But with legalization, I'm sure you anticipated the worst of what could happen post legalization. And does any of this surprise you that books are now behaving as they do? Yeah, some of it does surprise you. Oh shocking. Really, you didn't expect it to go this bad. I thought that I thought someone would actually try to understand how to book.

But they don't. They're all narrow minded, being counters. They don't. They don't look at big pictures. When Vinny was in here, I said, the idea, of course, is to get people in a casino. Right when they first put sports books in Vegas, they weren't here to make money lost leader.

They were here to keep their big customers. Because when Caesar's where Viny was put their beautiful sports book in all the quote unquote whales were going there because they get got ten dollars on an NFL game, so they go play back rattle four in the morning, they'd make their NFL bets. They go to bed and they'd wake up and watch it on TV and they'd have their bet. No one else offered a sports book, so all the big customers were going to Caesar's because they had an

opportunity to bet the NFL. So other places quickly through sports books up, but they had no there was no need to make money with him. They were there to keep customers. So the whole idea that the sports book bust make money is is a wrong and be if you're gonna make money, what's the best way to make money.

And these people contend that it's staying in the market throwing people out, And I would contend it's no get everyone you can in your casino, which, by the way, this tertiary value to having x more number of people in a casino, right because they might get drunk and they might go and blow money, or they spend money in a restaurant and your waitresses to make more tips. Whatever it is, it's good to have people in a casino rather than out. So if I ran a casino.

If I ran a sportsbook number one, we'd have a line way different than everybody else. We'd move that line as we took bets. Sometimes we move it the wrong way just to have fun. We do anything to get business in there. The late night game, I'd offer like a dollar five either way. If you're in the casino, you have to be live to get the dollar five. The app would have to have a dollar ten. You do anything you can to get people in there, have

contests every hour, or do anything you can. Just who cares. If you give away something, you're gonna get it all back. And they don't understand that. They don't understand that at all. How do you lose as much money in a game? Well, it's a game. Well and in the case of the euro as we call them the Euros, the European influence that now exists in legalized jurisdictions in the US, maybe they do understand that alan and they just don't give

a damn. And they realize that they can create whatever new bedding generation to conform to whatever it is they want to. They could do what they want, but I guarantee you they're minimizing their profit. No, I agree with you. It doesn't bother me Anymy I'm not gonna do this anymore. I mean, this is just it's not fun. You think this is the end for you, Yeah, there's no way, no more. College sucks that I had a really bad

day the last day. Uh, someone made the mistake of asking me if I was getting another great day, and like, I completely broke down and had a really bad thinking day. I had winners, So I just didn't have the right amounts on it because I just my brain was just not and plus I had three days without sleep and then took an overnight flight. I was I was really I'm like centered. Now. It's a shame that, uh, the last day didn't happen. We had good bets the last day.

A lot of people lost that last day of college basketball before all the cancelations. It was a weird day. Teams that teams were on bubble that had to win, just were that were nine and a half point favorites lost by double days. Just looks like the kids were distracted to the last day of the basketball season. Um, let me ask you about and and forgive me if you don't want to talk about this, because I didn't I didn't prep you. We didn't talk about this beforehand.

I don't do props. There was uh an incident that most people are aware of here where you got mugged, you got jack Like, what was that story? Okay? Uh, I don't know. I'll tell you the story about. I don't know why it happened to this day. So Mr McCarroll is putting on a Beat Boston contest and we're laying what year is this about? I was living in my new home and it wasn't far into the new home. So Alan Boston kind enough to join us here on a numbers game special best of edition of a numbers

game right here at Visa the Sports Betting Network. Alan, two thousand seven or eight. I don't remember. I honestly don't remember, but I wasn't. Oh actually I can't. I can't tell you what it was because Matt Smiling mout was my trainer and I just moved. No, it was

two thousand uh three or so? Okay, yeah, two thousand three, two thousand four, right, okay, what casinea Jimmy's Jimmys put on Beat Boston content and at the Rivierairo's property, right, and uh we laid thirty thousand and twenty thousand and we we id out, handicapped the other guy, and we picked five games on a Friday night. The problem was after week one where I went four and one and he went three and two. Was the following morning, when I was trying to bet the games I liked, people

were like hammering him. There is a good story to all this, so I well up since it's the first conference game and Cincinnati was playing at Marquette. My memory sucks, by the way, but with this it's good. It's weird,

really weird. So anyway, I'm trying to lay Cincinnati minus two minus twenty for a big bet, but someone keeps betting minus two and a half, so keeps going to three at Chris and I have to hold this line till eight am when Grande opened ground took a big bet, and we had one other place that opened the eight

that took a big bet. So I had to get this game to back to two and a half by So I had a hit the plus three they took the time, I had to hit it four times, and the full time I timed it right and it was two and a half an out. It got set two and a half to the whole industry. And now we laid two minus twenty. And meanwhile we had this extra ten thousand a bed. And it turned out the game fell three, so I signed it for an extra ten thousand. Yeah,

that was a good That was a happy story. But I also told Jimmy the next week we were in trouble. I can't give these games out, you know, I can't give what I like out because so that didn't work out too good. That was another favorite did for somebody. That cost me, Uh cost me fifteen thousand. We're probably laying too much anyway. I probably couldn't leave three to

two anyway. So one day while walking over there, I, uh, I'm walking across the street, and and and also I can tell you as I got up, and I said, wow, what's a bump on my head? You know? And and I walked in there and Jimmy said, uh, hey, what's up. I said, well, I'm here to do a show. He says, you're not doing a show. I said, what do you mean, I'm doing a show? I had no idea what happened. This happened out doors, right, this happened just outside the

Revere was supposedly there were cameras. There was one girl that was witnessed to it. So there were two people, one of them at UH some iron and a cracked man ahead with it. I didn't see him. Obviously I would stopped him. Sorry. I was as strong as an ox and uh and in very good shape. And that's probably would save my life, by the way, that's what. That's what. But it's not like any money was stolen or five thousands in my pocket that didn't take it. Uh. The only thing I came up with was I was

wearing a full tilt hoodie and a beanie. And the only thing came up with this is is I was in a gang area and I had the wrong callers on. That's the only thing to come up with. Because I never screwed anybody. I never nobody ever caught any thanks someone's wife for or robbed anybody, or cheated anybody. I do have honor. People don't like me, but I do have honor. And that's one thing they will most people will agree on is boss is not gonna, you know,

trew you over h perpetrator was never caught. Now, even though there were cameras, the cameras weren't working. I could have sued the reviewer and and had an easy case, but that's not my style, you know. But I ended up in the trauma center and and and the guy there said, you know you have a separate There was actually an an e m T guy, retired m T guy, and he told me to lie down and he diagnosed

me immediately with a concussion and a separated shoulder. And uh remember the security guard one of my I d and I told me to go left himself and the m T guy says, well, you're He said, you're the toughest guy I ever scene in my life. Like me not really said no. He said you took you took a shellacking like like a few have ever. And I have no idea what it was about. My god, geez, you know, I hoped it wasn't because I thought Jerry

Tarkani was an idiot. You know, I made that clear in the radio that I thought he was a terrible coach, but you know, he was revered around here. I hope someone wouldn't hit me over the half of that. But anyway, uh, you know, I still got a little ump of my head for my trouble. Yeah, well it's here you felt. Uh. But both the the MT guy and UH and the physical therapist I went to UH told me that because I was so strong, my core was able to absorb more of it than my head did and it probably

saved my life. He said. The best case you probably could have come out of this was a vegetable some sort. That's how hard a boy like. They really just they were trying to kill me. People would have probably preferred but UH, anyway, Yeah, I have no idea what was about? It sucks? I want to be game that week too, would would have got back into the contest. So when did when did uh? When did you leave Vegas? Why did you leave Vegas? And we'll wrap it up with

how you feel about sports betting these days? And why you think you don't want to do this anymore? When did you leave? I wanted to do it for the years I wanted to quote. I wanted to be a school teacher. What Chad did the book in two thousand? Like I even talked to him about it, like you know he did the UH? I said, would you be willing to be uh, you know, a guest? Because he was a good writer before he before he completely lost his mind with this sports betting stuff. He was he

was a very good writer. His first I said, note to that book originally by the way Chad Millman, who wrote The Odds in two thousand one, I believe it was. I don't know. We're the first show we watch. We we watched the episode one of Freaks and Geeks Together, Wow, which is my all time favorite TV show. Did you enjoy the experience of the Odds that you enjoy the experience of the Best of It, which you were featured in as well sports betting documentary? Uh uh, I don't know.

To me, it's just it is what it is. It's just I don't know if joy is the right word. It was interesting. Interesting, So why did you leave Vegas? Finally, so I had planned I I so I built this house in Queensbridge, and I remember I put like six d thousand cash into it and took a mortgage for seven and thirty thousand. That's those were the exact numbers. So I built this place for one point three three and a year later on Zillo it was three million. This is the housing market, all right. I have a

seven hundred thousand mortgage place things worth three million. I'm in good shape, and I had money. I'm gonna be all right. I'm gonna retire soon and go teach school. That's exactly what my plan was. Uh. However, I'm not one who's very good with money, and I always assumed I'd be able to make it. And and by making, I mean make like make a lot. Uh. And when I started running out of money, and I they had these loans that they were the government loans that you

could apply for. I had a list my expenses, and when I listed my expenses for the month, I realized that, you know, it's okay, two make two thousand year, which is quite a good salary. But if you're spending four matt's not good plush. Your house is losing value every year. And ultimately, you know, I had a couple of years that weren't so good. One year I lost a little, actually, and one year was a peanut win, which you know, that's my whole salary. I have no salary except that

in college basketball. I had quit college football by then, right, I I told Mr Walters when I called him up when I I had I was up in Maine and I had dinner with a uh mindy, A lady and I had dinner up in Maine and uh I set up boy him dreading this college football season was Old Orchard Beach Man. I love it up there. Chad went up there to do an article to for ESPN the magazine, which I I that one I did, like, I thought

that was very good. Uh. It was also in good shape, so a good picture when I was in good shape. He said, that was your biggest regret, regret about the best of it, that you weren't fat pig in the best of it. Yeah, that's terrible. The only that the only thing I'll get back that in a second. So I told her I really am not looking forward to college football. She said, well, do you need the money? I said yes, but no, you know I really don't. She said, well, life is short. So the next morning

I called up Mr Walters. I said, you know what, I've had a lot of fun. You've been very fair with me. I've honored to have worked with you, and I just don't think I can put enough effort into this too warrant getting what you're giving me for this. So thanks. He respected that. I'm sure, of course, like I could have sent him a list every week and taken the free role. And I even could have called my partner and asked h what he liked to just send his list in every week and made money. But

that's not the right thing to do. That's that's you know, that's deceitful, and I'm not going to do that. So the last time you spoke to Billy, no, No, I've I've spoken him several times, several times after I stopped with him, and written several letters in jail and wrote a letter in his behalf that that I thought was very good, but obviously it wasn't good enough. Uh, and still write letters to him and his wife told me he was gonna call me from jail, but that that

didn't happen. So that's a little disappointing. Uh, what did you want to say about your weight and the best of it? You're gonna say something you said. We'll get back to that. Yeah. So anyway, that's when I ended. That's when I ended football. And I only came back to do football when someone followed me on Twitter asked me if I'd be interested. So, uh, the wait thing, right, So two years ago I called back to the best,

back to the Beat Boston contest. The final show, I brought in a physio ball, which is one of these big round balls, and my trainer at the time was Matt smiling Matt, I called him, uh, and he we had just done an exercise recently where I kneel on the physio ball. So I'm kneeling on top of the physio ball. I eventually learned how to stand and on a physio ball and do squats on. Yeah, I was. I was a really good athlete. Uh, but it's not that hard. But doing weighted squats while standing on a

physio ball is a little tricky. But that was fun. That's fun, by the way to me. And this will all make sense of the second because obviously I wanted to be a baseball player and that never transpired. I quit it at all too young an age and really talented. Ah so that's my regret. Like when I read the book The Bottom of the Bottom of which is an amazing read, I completely broke down, like just it was just hit it every regret in life. Uh. So athletics

can be a little tricky with me. But so we have this big physio ball and I'm kneeling on it. And he takes a foam roller, which we're kind of new back then, and he said, all right, I've gotta whack you and your and the abs with this foam roller, so get ready. And during in the eight thirty commercial break, I said, all right, this is Matt Anthony and he's the reason I'm still alive now because he's the one that got me in such good shape that I was

able to withstand that blow to the head. I said, And if anything ever comes to this and we go on tour with the Beat Boston contest, I have come up with a commercial. So I brought the physio ball and he had the foam roller and I got up on it was a little tricky as the floor wasn't even, but eventually got kneeling on top of the thing and he takes them the phone roll and waxed me and the gut with it. I said, there we go. We got a Beat Boston commercial. Uh. So back to the

fat pig thing. So when I came to Vegas, I was five eight, probably to fifteen, and not because I worked out. I drank a lot, did a lot of coke. Wasn't healthy. Uh. One day a doctor said I don't know what you're doing, but you better stop. And I always had low self esteem. You know, I thought I was ugly to what, you know, what girl would have looked at me, and you know thoughts that probably a lot of people have battled in their lives, but I

really battled them. Uh So, I thought that getting into the jim would be helpful for both the self esteem which eliminates clutter of the brain. I thought it would help my thinking. That was my my thought that getting to the gym would help my thinking. So I started working out. My roommate actually was a was a personal trainer, and uh so we worked out together and eventually, uh when twenty four hour Fitness opened and someone they gave me six free training sessions. That's how I found Matt.

Matt's from Maine. Like I refused him, but they said, this kid's from Maine. So interested. So Matt Matt opened my eyes to what what the possibilities of working out are? He would We didn't do the same workout. In three and a half years, I worked out with him five days a week, not the same never never had the same workout. He was wildly creative and I respected him to no end. And and in fact, I'm gonna call him when I get off. When I get out of here, I gotta call him. Uh so he he, He made

me understand what a workout really was. And from there it just got crazier and crazier. Two the point where uh, Brian who was my last trainer and I worked out with him over nine years. He's now a detective in uh Las Vegas Police department. Uh and I'm having dinner with him Sunday. I told him, when you're leaving, and said, when I've done it with you, I'm leaving. So uh. I called him up two years ago, I said, you know,

the proudest moment of my life. You might think some people might think, you know, graduating in ibilly school, or you know, being a part of the odds or the best of it, or being on outside the lines or whatever, you know, whatever nonsense that people think it is. Uh No, the proudest moment of my life is I walk into a workout and the workouts were being amped up, for sure, but I was in good shape. I mean, you know, I'm training five days a week. I never eat a

wrong thing. I look good, like really good. This is someone who hates the way he looks, but I was ripped h and we do this four exercise superset with chest just crazy. I think we did like heavy chin incline and uh peck deck and push ups. Those are probably the four exercises back to back to back to back. Then I rested for a minute or so when we did them again, and we did four sets of this.

We've never done four exercise superset before. And I am just destroyed, like I'm like crawling to the next thing. And he's already over there, you know, all grinning, and I'm on the bench, knowe, with my head between my legs, you know that look when you've had enough. And he said, Okay, we're gonna do a Burbie, which if you don't know to burbie is looking up. We're gonna do a burbe and explode to a pulp four sets of eight and

I can't even stand out of my chair. And I looked at him and said, you are you at f and mind? And he says he You're just gonna be uh whatever, your whole life. And I said, f you, and I got up. But I did four sets of eated at exercise like it was absolutely nothing, and I'm like, I called him away to that day. I said, you know what, I've copped out my whole life. Thanks, I learned a lot today. And and two years ago I called him and said, you know, that was the proudest

moment of life. That day I did that for exercise four sets of eight burpe exploded to pull up and I couldn't even stand. Did you say you were on outside the lines? Did you mentioned what were you on outside the lines for? Oh boy? They don't like me either. I gave them probably the best interview I've ever given anybody, three hours of of of stuff. Uh. They it was when the nc AT tournament was starting to get big.

They wanted to compare an amateur to a pro, and Chad had the ready made pro because he had done the odds and had me. And despite what anyone thinks, there's not many of these around who do their own work and and you know, and and don't follow anyone at all. I want to just get this because you you say, this is, you know this is. You don't want to bet anymore, you don't want to do this anymore. Explain what the factors are that are going on in the market today. That leads you to that number one.

I'm sixty two this year. Number number one, I'm six two year number two I planned on retiring years ago. Number three, The joy of living in a multimillion dollar home with your you know, high ceilings and big TV and berber rug and your great Dane lying around and the desk. That's exactly what you wanted it. Uh, there's something to be said for that. Uh. And and going to the gym every day, five days a week and just getting a living crap, beating Audia and loving every

minute of it. Uh that that's that's fine. The beginning was fun because it was all fresh and new and I was trying to figure it out. The middle was good because I made a lot of money and I lived the life a lot lived the life of Riley.

And my yearbook. My yearbook quote, by the way, it's from an old show called Maverick with James Garner, and he said, as my pappy used to say, and my quote, here's my quote, how presciate to buy with this quote, By the way, work is a good way to while away the time, but a bad way to make a living. That was my yearbook quote. So I always thrived to be independent. That was my dream in life. So and in that regard I succeeded. But the joy of winning

money isn't enough anymore. And and trying to bet is just it's just a nightmare. You can't get down. It's just they look at you like you're like you have a gun in your hands. Uh if you try to make a bet. Uh. And and there are people who are now betting as soon as the line opens or before there is any before there was enough market. You have to be able to bet X number of dollars or in a living like what's your edge on a game? Two percent? So what are you earning on a thousand dollar?

About twenty dollars? Maybe I don't know. I'm not a math guy, so that's a good guess. Yeah. So you know, so you're talking earning twenty dollars on a game and you bet a million dollars? What's that? What have you made that's not going to get through the year? You know? So are you talking about people who are not originators

like yourself? They might be originators. They they certainly know what they're doing because they bet, they bet all the right sides, but they are betting before there is market, and they are influencing the line. And to start the day off, there's you know, five or six games that are no longer a bettable, and you know more more more of those are gonna win and lose, and and now you're you know, now you have to find other

ways to win. And and luckily you know, like like I'm not, I'm not I'm not bragging when I'm saying I'm good at this, I am like I I have ideas that that I was told her just like so far ahead of the game. It's nuts. Like when I did that Jeffrey Maher podcast, those guys talked after like I was a genius and one of them went down my tea and when them went to Yale, like that's the first time I even consider myself to be smart

when they talked about it. So obviously I have a knack for this that that's very very profound in a simple kind of way. I really do keep it very simple, but it's also very profound. When I'm thinking about my adjusting a team, Obviously a lot goes in my head that that I could never teach anybody, but I tried it. But yeah, well, no. And we've had you on the show and you've you've done a pretty good job of

breaking that down. I find it interesting though that you needed others to tell you, others with a pedigree to tell you that you were genius like about this, but you never really acknowledge that. It's just it was just a way to make money, That's all it was. It was an escape from me. Remember if you remember the the original reason I became a gambler, it was to escape evil thoughts. It was to escape life. Really, I just uh so that that that was the purpose of it.

It wasn't anything at all. I and and you know I what I do is very very simple. I never even thought about I just did it and and and and ultimately that is the highest level, right when you just react to something as highest level. And I always encourage people, you know, do spend money on a toute, because if I was a tout, they couldn't win. If I charged them, they couldn't win because you're already stuck

the money of paying me. And now, if I'm any good, the line that I give them to bed Ad is gonna fly like hey, you know, I fly like uh crazy, So that you know, unless you can give it out where people can all do it at the same time. I'm sure the way to do it, but you can't win with it tout. You're better off just picking some sport or league or conference or anything that you feel like you have some knowledge at and just winging it. Just that lines to WHW, that lines too low or

and that, and that's it. That's your simple thought. Don't overthink it at all. React to that line. That's how you should bet. If you're an amateur you happy today? Do you consider yourself happy guy? I've never been a happy guy, so still not. So it's still not no, not even close content though, because I know you and I when we talk off line, we talk about how you interview prospective candidates for the University of Pennsylvania. You

enjoy that. I do enjoy that. Yeah, I enjoy that whole There's a show on called The h Do I think there's a reason for that. I obviously my teen years were not your typical teen years, and and that's not a typical, which, by the way, is the best show on Netflix. A typical is mandatory viewing. It's an incredible, incredible show, probably will be in my top five. Just yeah. In sex Education is the other one. They're both very

high level, genius TV shows. But there was something about helping kids in their teen years two guide them a little bit. There's something about that that resonates with me, and I think because I was so lost in those years that it would have been nice to have me help me guide my way through it. Back then, I probably wouldn't end up a sports better I might have had a more normal existence. But you know, I'm not I'm not complaining. I'm not complaining. Believe me, I do

the good end of the stick. How many people get to build their own home and and and live on you know, in Queen's Ridge North and spend in summers in Maine. But at all, I man, I I did great. I'm not complaining. If if I don't, if I'm broke, the rest of my life I want. Well. This is why a conversation like this is so interesting, because it all makes sense. It all makes sense when you lay it out like you have. Hopefully it did a lot of it makes sense. And I hope listen. I know

you say you're not gonna bet college basketball anymore. I take you at your word. If you change your mind. It's not fun. It's not fun. And I don't know. I don't know if it's beatable. We wont this year, but it was just it's just I don't know. I'm working with different people and and you know, and and the reason I I I brought on the I I explained this last time. I brought in the kids from

three Man. We've because I hope, like I said, I'm never going to be that guy who who's on there evaluating why plus seven is a good bet, even though there's no one more. There is no one in this world that's more intuitive as you. There's no one more qualified. I beat the game my whole life. You know, you can have people on here and they can say they did this and did that, or they bet this and they about that. But they're all most of them a

full of it. Okay they are. You can't if once you devote your entire to betting college basketball, uh, you're not beating it. So all these people who claim they do this, this and this this, they wouldn't even have time to do this. Well, this is this is why I wanted to do this, Alan, because I gotta tell you something years from now, when I look back on

this just how you were looking back on stuff. I will point honestly, this is this is a highlight for me because the privilege of being able to sit with you for a long period of time and really find out about what made the man, what made the better that you are. Uh, this is a complete privilege. And I speak on behalf of the listeners as well. I'm sure like doubt, but no, no, no, totally like this is you are not you are You're an original. You're

an originator. You are somebody doesn't exist today. And I know and you correct me wrong. I know that when you see and now with legalization sports betting, media is a thing now and about of it, if not a hundred, I don't know, but a huge percentage of it must really know at you. I don't read it. I don't read it at all. But the three man we've kids do do know what they're talking about, and they do

have an old school feel to their modern approach. They write in a very modern way with a reference ken palm and all these other things that I don't even know what they are. But when I explained to them why it might not be the right way to talk about it they understand. They don't just automatically refute me like you're an old dinosaur who don't know the hell you're talking about. That would not be accurate. I'm still smarter than than they are, so and I have evolved

with the times I've eliminated. Like the way handicapped now is compared a way to handicapped back in the early days isn't even It's not even the same. It was all psychology back then. I talked to chat about how I got inside each team and tried to feel the ebb and floll of that team, knowing when they might play well, annoying when it might not. That's all gone by the wayside when it became a big money game, these teams playing, they all asked road games, you know,

Like I really laid into Spiker for Drexel. I write for the Always a Dragon ball, and the last thing I wrote on there by the way, I'm very proud of I really, I really am proud of it. It's on Always a Dragon. I really I really liked what I wrote there. Uh, but Spiker played as can Winter for forty minutes, some lame duck game, Like yeah, there's no point like these guys trying to win these games instead of just playing possum. If I coached a one bid league, I might dump the whole year and get

ready for conference tournament. I might play a completely different game during the year and then pull out all the tricks for the conference tournament. Because the idea is to get an n ci A tournament, and you're still not interested in betting in game. It's not your thing, because I think you'd be spectacular at it, given the fact that you love the EBB and flow of how a team ends up with the final score that they get to. Yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's a different kind of

it's a different kind of thinking. I could do it if I didn't have a bet on the front end, like I did have some good halftime bets on, like I was pretty sure St. Mary's was gonna win at the half. And it's interesting though that you're pretty sure Nother Kentucky was gonna be Wisconsin Green Bay by a hundred. Your pre flop bet might influence you, is what you're saying, or might I can't watching him objectively when I bet on it. Interesting, I cannot, and I know it the

good news. I know it, and you know it. That's that is a good Yeah, No, it's it's it's number one, us have fun anymore. Number two, I don't know. I might not be able to earn a living any other way, so I might not have any other choice. But I'm gonna get poker a shot, even though it's kind of a dead thing. But I I've always been ahead of the game with that. By the way, to my ideas

about poker have always been different. But the people that laughed at me now are now finding out that my ideas are what the computers are telling him to do. So once again, I I've for some reason, my brain just logically gets at it in a good way. I don't know. It's awesome. I I listen, whether you choose to do college basketball, whether it's all poker, either way, I hope you will be willing to come back on when you want to. You're always welcome to come back

on the show. Well, thank You have to have some honesty on here, right, Yeah, what I want to have it as honest as humanly possible throughout Well, I don't so. I mean, that's one thing I can say is is is not one word of bullet that I've said on any show at any time. I know that I don't have to go back and think about what I said, because what I said as the truth. That's right. So I don't have to talk about some future but I made that actually didn't make, you know, etcetera, etcetera. Alan,

thank you man, You're welcome. I appreciate it so much. Alan Boston kind enough to join us for an extended period of time. Um, and I I think I speak on behalf of everybody that helps us understand where you came from and and uh become the better. But oh they care, they care. Um, American icon in the betting world, Alan Boston right here exclusively on a numbers game at Bason, the Sports Betting Network