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Welcome to the Wednesday edition of Balance of Power. We're halfway through the week together as we join you live from the nation's capital, where something big just happened. Did you feel it? The ground shook a little bit, The house past something and passed it by a lot three point fifty two to sixty five. A new funding measure? You ask, a new budget for our country to keep the lights on past March. Maybe money for Ukraine the billions they've been waiting for. No I answered all of them.
This is legislation that could lead to a ban of TikTok. Now, boy, don't call it an outright ban. You'll hear from lawmakers on that. Remember we talked about it. This is the mechanism that would force Byte Dance to divest TikTok in a certain period of time. They give them six months or be banned. Don't ask me who will buy it. Don't ask me what Donald Trump's gonna say, or the Senate for that matter. This sailed through the House. This
has been moving quickly. This statement from Chuck Schumer next door where people think maybe this might actually not be able to pass. Quote, the Senate will review the legislation when it comes over from the House. Unquote. The reaction from China what you'd expect, resorting to hegemonic moves as we hear from Beijing in recent years. This is from
a spokesman from China's Foreign Ministry in recent years. Though the US has never found any evidence of TikTok posing a threat to US national security, it has never stopped going after TikTok. And will they complete the band room. There's a ban of federal employees using it on government phones. The Biden administration or the campaign rather is also on TikTok, and so is the Trump campaign. So maybe we're talking out of both sides of our mouths here in Washington.
That would never happen. Of course, Dan Flatley is with us from Capitol Hill, Bloomberg national Security Reporter, because Dan, it's great to see you. This was done in the name of national security, right They didn't want China collecting data on Americans. Is this going to pass in the Senate?
Yeah, Joe, absolutely. I mean, this is all done in the name of national security. As you said, and you mentioned that, the path forward in the Senate is much less clear than you know, what we just saw happen in the House, a big bipartisan vote, three hundred and fifty two votes in favor, sixty five against. It's not very often that you see a bipartisan vote like that these days. But you mentioned Senator Chuck Schumer's statement, perhaps you know, giving some to those who want to see
this bill pass the Senate. Is the statement from Senators Mark Warner and Marco Rubio, the chair and vice chair of the Senate Intel Committee. They said that they were happy to see the House pass this bill, want to see something similar done in the Senate. They want to work to get this House pass bill through here. The problem is is that, you know, that's two senators out of one hundred. They do have a lot of influence.
But the Senate, you know, will probably work its own will on this, and as you know, Joe, any one senator can really gum up the works. So it's going to be a little bit of a different process over here.
Yeah, you know, I'm taken by the statement dan by Maxwell Frost to give us a sense where progressives are on this. He's taking this as a First Amendment issue, writing, quote, this legislation is an infringement on our constitutional right to freedom of speech. That also places a nearly impossible condition for the app to be sold within six months or less. He says, it is unrealistic. Unquote, is there something to
be said for that? Is that First Amendment argument going to be heard in the Senate?
It's possible, I mean, certainly, that's something that Kentucky Senator Rand Paul intends to raise. He's said that already. You mentioned a couple of other issues there, Joe, which is the question of is this enough time for bitte Dance to find a buyer for TikTok. It's a very valuable company at this point, much more valuable than it was a few years ago when then President Donald Trump tried to ban it through a similar mechanism in the executive branch.
Six months is a very short timeframe. Actually, it's a little bit shorter than that. It's about five and a half months technically, but if you, you know, look around, there's no buyer that has come forward yet. You know, maybe they're trying to keep their powder dry in that sense, but it would be very expensive, obviously. The other thing that you hear is that this just happened too quickly.
In the House, Lexandria A Casia Cortes earlier when she announced that she would be voting against this mentioned the fact that this just happened too quickly. Maxwell Frost also mentioned the fact that this happened too quickly and that while they have concerns about data leakage to China and other things of that nature, this bill would not address those concerns in a workable way. So that's kind of what you hear from the opponents of this bill right now.
Yeah, Dan, great, thank you for being up there for US today. Bloomberg's National security reporter Dan Flatley with US Live from Capitol Hill where it all just went down. The bill has passed that could lead to the ban of TikTok. Alexandria Cossio Cortez just mentioned by Dan issues a tweet. I'm sorry, Susie hit me off at the door and said, you gotta start calling it x it's not Twitter anymore. I'm still calling it Twitter. I'm voting no,
she writes on the TikTok Forced Sale Bill. The bill was incredibly rushed from committee to vote in four days with little explanation. That is pretty remarkable in Washington. She goes on to write, there are serious anty trust in privacy questions here in any national security concern should be laid out to the public prior to a vote. Maybe that national argument has yet to be made. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington glad you're with us here. Our other
big story brings us to the campaign trail. It's on the rematch. I know we all felt smart on Super Tuesday, looked at what was impossible math for Nicki Haley certainly anyone else running against Joe Biden in terms of Dean Phillips. But when you actually reach that level and you can call them presumptive nominees, it's meaningful. And we got there last night. As we discussed, of course, it was a
primary day. We talked about Georgia and pretty interesting to look at the results here as Joe Biden's victory in Georgia put him over the top, but he still showed some weakness here the polls coming out of these contests. Donald Trump has his own challenges as well, again in the state of Georgia. Joe Biden's problem might be in the Midwest, as we've discussed Michigan, Minnesota, the uncommitted movement, the protest vote that has been following him across the country.
But this is going to be the nation's first presidential rematch in seventy years. We are actually doing this, the longest campaign in modern history and the first rematch in seventy years. As we dig into this with Nancy Kaffer, a new voice on the program, I've been looking forward to talking with you, Nancy, editor of the Detroit Free Press editorial page. It's great to have you with us.
Joe Biden's got some weaknesses. A lot of them have been discussed openly, certainly around the State of the Union address. It was all about his age, but his policies are bringing challenges for young progressives and voters of color. What's your view from Detroit where Michigan is everything?
Thank you so much, it's really a pleasure to be here. Yeah, I think that there were some really alarming results in Michigan's primary outcome, and I think you're seeing those uncommitted voters in spread to other states. You're seeing this movement spread. We're talking about a state where Donald Trump won by ten thousand votes in twenty sixteen and Joe Biden won by one hundred and fifty thousand votes in twenty twenty.
These are really thin margins, particularly twenty sixteen and near one hundred thousand uncommitted voters in Michigan after a three week campaign to get this up and running. So this is this is you know, Biden has been around, He's done this before. He's I'm sure concerned and is trying to He's figure out what he can do to turn these voters.
Back to his cause.
He's got union workers to worry about as well. He's walking the picket line as the first president to carry a sign with the UAW just months ago. And all I keep hearing, Nancy, is that the rank and file UA doub you're going to vote Trump when you add these two together, knowing that the razor thin margin we're talking about here, this is a potential problem. He's losing Michigan in Bloomberg's swing state pole. Does that accurately reflect the lay of the land there.
I think it's really hard to tell. I mean, yes, he's been consistently polling poorly here since last year, and you know it certainly cause for alarm. I think we are still several months out from the election. Inflation is going in a different direction. You know, it's hard kind of I mean, I know it's we're getting closer to the election, but it still is. We've still got a
lot of time for things to go differently. We've got a lot of time for folks to realize that walking into the polls, this's a binary choice that it's Joe Biden or Donald Trump, that there's not a sort of third fantasy candidate that they can select.
But yeah, if I were the Biden camp, I'd be worried.
I'd be I'd be trying to do what I could to get Michigan back into my column because there is no Look at that electoral map, I don't see a path for victory for him except for through the Midwest.
Do you.
That is absolutely right, which is why we keep talking about it. I mean, he's just without Michigan, without Wisconsin. Ask Hillary Clinton how that's going to go. Here's a doozy, Nancy, and I can't figure it out. We can talk about economic polling all day long, and you can point me to inflation and higher prices and I get it. But for Joe Biden to see no post State of the Union bump in the polls, to me is a screamer here. This was lauded as the speech of his lifetime last week.
Even Republicans said, yeah, boy, he cleared the bar. He was yelling at us from the rostrum. We're not going to be talking about cognitive challenges here in the near term. But if you look at five thirty eight, yesterday's updated approval rating average is a new all time low. What do you think about that?
I mean, I don't know, man, Buble, I don't know how many it's it's a I mean, it's it's become becoming.
Clear with every poll.
Like he he has got to really campaign the hell out.
Of these states.
Oh, I mean, you know, in Hillary.
Can I say that? Could I say?
Yeah?
I just did?
Okay, Sorry for newspapers, we have a little more time to self at it. I'm sorry.
Hey, I work in a newsroom. It's all good, Nancy.
So you know, in twenty sixteen and Hillary Clinton sort of famously didn't campaign in Michigan for nine months and that did not go well. I mean, similar issues in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and again we saw how that turned out. Those three states have voted in lockstep for I want to say, at least twenty years, maybe more so. I think it's it's going to be also interesting to see to these states split off this time?
Is it ASCO's Wisconsin? So goes our nation?
Like?
How how does I of the Midwest? Like how does this? How does this? Uh?
How does this all play out here? But yeah, he's got to get here. He's got to win these voters back or he's in big trouble. You know, one hundred thousand voters is it's a lot. It's a lot of people. And especially considering again the short period of time in which this uncommitted campaign got up and running. Now, typically you see about twenty thousand people vote uncommitted in.
Every presidential primary. I'm kind of curious about that.
I didn't really realize it was such a phenomenon until this year when when this campaign started.
But yeah, you get about twenty thousand people in.
Every primary who choose uncommitted, except for some weird years where weird things happened in primaries, like in two thousand and eight when Obama wasn't on the primary ballot, here like three hundred thousand people voted uncommitted as a proxy for Obama. But yeah, so eighty to one hundred thousand people here dissatisfied enough with Joe Biden's presidency to go to go out and make that choice. We also, you know, this was centered around Gaza, and we have the largest
air American community in the country in Detroit. But our precinct level analysis after the primary show that this wasn't this wasn't contained to the more densely air of American
communities in metro Detroit. This was a problem at University of Michigan, for Biden, for any st lancing at Michigan State University, that these university communities with young progressive not simply air of American voters, which is, as I think someone smarter than me said, not a lot of states have a high air of American population, but most states have liberal college challenge fulled with young progressives, so sort of a spreading problem.
Well, you really put your finger on something there Nancy in our in our Last moment, speak to that because we're we're not including issues that could be dogging Joe Biden that are economic related when it comes to young people, the promise of student loan forgiveness, the promise of legalizing cannabis, things that they heard on the way in that have not happened yet. That's part of the problem here, isn't it.
It is? But the other thing is he has moved a.
Lot of domestic policy, and he's got to get better at talking about it and better at convincing people that's made a difference in their lives. We're in a weird world where people don't always evaluate the facts on the ground. How do we feel about the facts on the ground, how do we feel about things that have happened?
Is a competing factor.
But also telling people like, no, you're wrong, things went well for you isn't a winning strategy either. So I think he's got an incredibly difficult job to do. But he does need to start talking more and more convincingly about the things he has actually done for Americans if he wants to turn that tide.
Well, I'm glad you can come talk to us today. Nancy, don't be a stranger. We'd like to stay in touch with you over the course of this campaign with the view from Detroit and from Michigan, where she is editor of the Detroit Free Press Editorial Page, one of the nation's great newspapers. Nancy Caffer, thank you for your insights.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple CarPlay and The Oh with the Bloomberg Business Act. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, j Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Here in Washington, we often talk about how difficult it is to come by a bipartisan effort to get anything through both chambers of Congress, frankly, which of course are controlled by Democrats in the Senate Republicans in the House, and there's usually not a lot of bipartisanship to be found. But this TikTok bill that passed the House today did so on pretty remarkable bipartisan grounds. Three hundred and fifty two people Joe voted for the bill, only sixty five against.
Amazing, and it had to be a pretty overwhelming number under suspension, we needed two thirds. They crossed that bar cleared. It isn't it amazing though, these two different universes, because it's not clear that this could pass the Senate or that Chuck Schuber will even bring it to the floor.
Yeah, because of course, some senators have expressed concern about what this means in regard to First Amendment rights, potentially what precedent this could set for, say, US companies that operate in other jurisdictions. And of course there's concerned that the youth vote may get mad if you take their TikTok away. The thing is, though lawmakers will tell you, this is not a bill to ban TikTok. That would just be the consequence if TikTok is not divested from
byte Dance, of course, the Chinese parent company. And that is the point that the House Democratic Leader Hawking Jeffries made earlier today.
Take a listen.
I don't support a ban on TikTok. The legislation did not ban TikTok. It's simply a divestiture of TikTok so that this social media platform can be owned by an American company that would protect the data and the privacy of the American consumer from malignant foreign interests like the Chinese Communist Party.
Just don't call it a ban. As Seth Molton schooled us the other day. Here around this time on this broadcast, the Democrat from Massachusett's talking about the vote. Here turn to Maxwell Frost. If you want to really know how progressives feel, the Democrat from Florida saying in a statement, this legislation is an infringement on our constitutional right to freedom of speech that also places a nearly impossible condition on the app to be sold within six months or less.
It's unrealistic. That's where we start our conversation with the ambassador. Been looking forward to seeing Mark Ginsburg. We tend to speak about geopolitics and we might get there. But Mark Ginsburg, the former Ambassador to Morocco, is also the founder and president of the Coalition for a Safer Web and is deeply involved in this conversation. Mister ambassador, welcome back to Bloomberg. It's great to see you. Should TikTok be banned?
Oh, I'm all on favor. I would have voted if I had a vote on this one. But let me you know, it's great to vote on these on these bills that actually will unfortunately die along death in the courts when it's going to be challenged. And I'll explain you why we filed a lawsuit. Organization filed a lawsuit, which this legislation is directed at, at both Apple, both Apple and Google to remove the TikTok app from their app stores. We did the same with Telegram because it
was providing support for terrorism. Several years ago. The Ninth Circuit in California threw our case out on the basis that such a court that this type of interference would violate Section two thirty of the Communications Decency Act. So I'm one of those folks who says, yeah, let's go, but I have long experience understanding how complicated this is. Even though there is a legitimate reason to essentially divest TikTok from by Dance and have it owned in the United States.
So a legitimate reason perhaps, but legal questions and the legality around this is something that actually Brendan Carr, a commissioner over at the FCC, talked about earlier today on Bloomberg Surveillance. Just take a listen to what he told us this morning, and then we'll have you respond.
This plainly is a conduct law, meaning we're acting because of the demonstrated malign national security threat of TikTok, not because of the content of anybody's speech. And the bill is narrowly tailored, which is key for First Amendment analysis because it simply requires divestment, meaning the millions of Americans that love TikTok, I'm not one of them, but they can continue to use the application, but just in a more secure way.
So I guess, Ambassador, I kind of have a two part question. One is it narrowly tailoreded enough that potentially it would survive legal challenges, But also isn't the narrow tailoring part of the concern you're hearing on the other side, which is that this is naming a speci ccific private company in legislation targeting It is narrow both potentially a good thing, and about that.
I think this is a pylon because if you flew to Beijing today, you would not be able to not be able to go on your phone and read anything from Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or whatever, because China bans all of those US apps. So there's an issue of reciprocity here. That's number one number two Kley from the strictly legal point of view and from someone like me who works with all of these platforms and sees the content, the extremist content. I mean, TikTok is not the worst, but
it's one of the great offenders. Give you an illustration. When the October seventh massacre occurred in Israel, Hamas used TikTok to you to retain influencers on TikTok to disseminate its proper again to operations into the US. Okay, Now that stinks to high heaven. The fact that TikTok has no algorithms or content moderation to stop that. And that's one of the problems. We've seen all sorts of extremist
content on TikTok. It's not the innocent playground a lot of folks make it out to be, even if you argue about its Chinese ownership. But this law doesn't deal with that. This law does not solve that.
Problem, Ambassador Ginsburg. TikTok says it not only intends to exhaust all legal challenges which we're talking about here, but a divestiture, it says, would also require approval by the Chinese government, which of course, says it would firmly oppose a forced sale. We heard from the Chinese today. You could have written this statement in advance. In fact, they did, they issued it before the vote took place. But what will that mean in this process?
I don't know or how anyone is going to acquire TikTok in the United States because the magic potion that makes TikTok TikTok is its unique algorithm, and you can't force the Chinese to divest the algorithm if it owns the company. And so no matter what happens here, I don't know who is going to want to put up billions of dollars if the Chinese refused to provide you the secret gateway of what makes TikTok TikTok.
Well, there's also the question, Ambassador, of who would be allowed to buy TikTok. This is not going to be a cheap acquisition. Someone has to make it in the hundreds of billions of dollars. So realistically it would have to be a larger company that would try to buy it, right, but big tech antitrust is kind of a big thing here in Washington. I can't imagine any big tech company being allowed to get bigger very easily.
Gosh, you hit the nail on ahead. I mean, is Mark Zuckerberg going to go off and buy it? Is going to be someone else? Is Trump's truth Social Company going to go ahead and buy it? I mean the problem here is that there is the antitrust issue and most importantly, the anti competitive issue that is going to
be set up should anyone acquire. That's why I'm saying, anyone who's sitting here and worried about this becoming instantaneous law and bye bye TikTok, that's a lot more gray hair on my head before I see this happen.
Surprised you didn't mentioned Larry Ellison Oracle is already hosting TikTok's US data ambassador. Wouldn't that be an obvious buyer?
Uh? Yeah, it's possible, but that again depends on whether Larry Ellison is going to be able to convince China to let him buy the algorithm. And I just don't know. You have Look, you have to break this down, guys. You have the customer base, okay, and you have the dissemination through the servers, but you've got to have the algorithm that permits the videos to be curated the way
they are. And if someone can develop the AI here in the United States and substitute it for the algorithm that is owned by by Dance, that's going to be an important accomplishment to justify the sale.
All right, Ambassador Markensburg, always great to have you on the program. Of course, he is the founder and president of Coalition for a Safer Web. We appreciate your time today, sir, and now we want to turn to our political panel. Genie Schanzino is with US Bloomberg Politics contributor alongside Lester Munson, BGR Group, co head of the International Practice and the Republican Strategist. Thank you both so much for joining us. Lester, first,
to you. Considering overwhelmingly House Republicans supported this measure, despite perhaps the feelings of former President Donald Trump. Do you think Republicans in the Senate will do the same? Is this going to be able to pass the other chamber?
I think, you know, it's a great question. K I think if this comes to a vote and the and that's a decision for Democrats to be clear, it comes to a vote, I think Republicans are going to be
hard pressed to not vote for it. In other words, I think I think Republicans will do much in the Senate, will be much like House Republicans and will vote for this despite what you know, President Trump's ambivalence or even leaning in favor of TikTok here, I think because that's what they're that's where their base is, that's where kind of the voters are. There's a lot of skepticism of TikTok and the China connections, and I think voter and if it comes to a vote, that's where senators will be.
Genie, you're surrounded by young people every day as a professor at Iona University, and I wonder your thoughts on this broadly. We just asked Ambassador Ginsburg if this should be banned, if you actually agree with this movement to begin with, when you hear from the Maxwell Frosts of the world, this is a violation of the First Amendment, and a lot of folks see this legislation as a setup. What's your answer though, to the national security worry?
You know, I think the national security concerns are obviously real. I do wish that we had more information on that aspect of it. You know, this has been one of the challenges here because I think my concern and I wouldn't say this is the concern of the young people I talked to. My concern is, okay, you ban TikTok? Is there truly no other way for China or the Communist Party to get our private information? The reality is we are living in a country with no real privacy concerns, controls,
or regulation. And you know, there's just been some really good research out showing how easy it is and I put easy in quotes to gather this information for somebody with the means, with the money, and with the interest. And so I worry that, like so much else in Washington.
D C.
What we're getting here is a you know, a slight nip at something that is very popular right now going against the Communist Party. But I'm not convinced yet how effective it will actually be in you know, really securing us as a nation and securing our privacy as individuals. And of course I do have First Amendment concerns, but you know, national security has got to be you know, the most important concern.
But Kaylee, aren't all of Genie's students is going to VPN around a band anyway isn't that What we've learned is.
That's the question. Will they still be able to access the platform assuming the band goes in place?
This isn't true to the village happened? Should they not divest? Should this even become law?
This is a backdoor to TikTok, But using a VPN to get to TikTok kind of underscores the perhaps desperation to be on TikTok and the addiction that some people have in genie. As we talk about your students are just youth in general, a group that say, President Biden is hoping we'll re elect him come November. Could there actually be political consequence to lawmakers doing this, to Biden signing it?
Yeah, I mean, I.
Think that's why we've seen in part why we've seen Donald Trump say, hey, you know, maybe not so fast. I think, you know, Donald Trump for monetary reasons and also for vote reasons. We're looking at one hundred and seventy million people on this app. But you know, just what you guys are talking about the VPN again another example, how effective is this really? If a five year old
can work around it in three seconds? So that's what makes me think that This is more rhetorical than effective in terms of, you know, really show really securing our national security interests and also our privacy interests.
Yeah, you know how to do that, right, I don't know how to do that. You know how to do that?
Well, this is something the ambassador was bringing up. You can't use a lot of stuff in China. When I went to China, it used to VPN to use my stuff.
In chinable hook Ye happens. Don't worry. Where is producer James going to get his golf tips? Where will we get our recipes?
Right?
TikTok? Yeah, I don't know. The jury's still out on this one. Thanks to our panel, Lester and Genie. Well, they'll be back with more next here on Balance of Power Only on Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play and then roud with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Welcome to Balance of Power. It is the Wednesday edition. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington alongside Kayley Lions, and the rematch is set one of our top stories today. Joe Biden Donald Trump, the two a majority of voters have said they do not want in a rematch. Yep are now the presumptive nominees. You cannot deny the math the under election. While we feel like it really started in New Hampshire, I guess officially begins today, Kayley. And it's going to be a long one.
It's going to be a marathon, not a sprint. This will be about eight months that we will be in a general election campaign between these two and whoever else is involved, Robert at Kennedy Junior, potentially a third Labels ticket, whoever that may be. But the question I have is, we are talking about a former president and a current president. The name idea, the name recognition has to be as close to perfect as you could possibly get. And a lot of people probably have their minds made up already
of what they think of these two individuals. So what do you what can you change over the course of even an eight month long.
Period, making it pretty difficult for both of these candidates to move the needle beyond what they're walking in with. It's a really great point. And when you see the polls here five point thirty eight telling us today that Joe Biden, who seemed to not clear the bar but leap over it in the State of the Union address, having heard from Republicans and Democrats on this program agreeing with that, got no bump from the State of the
Union address, as history would tend to provide. In fact, five point thirty eight says updated approval rating average is now a new all time low for Joe Biden.
Pretty incredible. So on this note, we want to turn to one of our politics gurus here at Bloomberg. Gregory Cordy is with US who covers national politics for US here with Us in the Washington, d C studio. So, Gregory, the matchup is set. It's the matchup we all knew was coming as it was, and pretty much to the entire American voting populace knew that they were ultimately going to have to choose to decide for one of these
two or maybe not show up at all. So what realistically can change now that the general election cycle has begun between now and November.
Yeah, when we talked last week, it was just after Super Tuesday. This felt like anticomactic Tuesday.
Right.
We all knew who the nominees were going to be, and yet our story on this matchup is one of the most read stories on the Bloomberg terminal, and I suspect part of that is our global audio is just now sort of waking up to the realization that there are no off ramps here. This is the matchup we're going to have. It was baked in the cake all along. And as you say, these are two of the best known public figures, never mind politicians, in American life going
back over the past half century. There aren't many undecided voters. And so to answer Joe's question, I think the answer is not voters deciding whether they support Trump or Biden, but whether they show up or not show up.
Huh.
And that's particularly a problem on the Democratic side, where there does seem to be a dampening of enthusiasm for Joe Biden compared to four years ago. And the job for Democrats and for President Biden is to remind voters why they voted against Donald Trump in the first place.
No off ramps, says Gregory Cordy, We're just Thelma and Louise right off the cliff. So look at what happened in Georgia last night for Donald Trump. Specifically, george is what put Joe Biden over the top. He won Georgia. People might forget by eleven seventy nine votes. Guess what Nicki Haley got seventy seven thousand yesterday. I know you're going to tell me that there was early voting, but that's got to mean something.
Yeah, it's absolutely a lot large part of that is early voting, people who voted before she dropped out, and she remained on the ballot even after she dropped out, and so there were a number of those. By the way, Chris Christy got something like one percent. So there are candidates who remain on continue to get votes, if not delegates. And yes, to answer your question, there there is a
question on the Republican side. We just talked about the enthusiasm problem that Democrats have, but for Republicans, one of the questions is do these traditional Republicans come home to Trump or do they do what a lot of them did four years ago, and that is say, look, we need we need a change, we need to start reset here and hopefully then we can get a Republican we like better in twenty twenty four. Now that that hasn't happened?
Do they vote for Trump again? And hope maybe twenty twenty eight brings a more traditional style Republican.
Had Gregory, thank you, it's great to have you with us. Anti climactics Tuesday? Are we going with that? No off Ran not Super? I guess not super at all.
Any other Tuesday.
I think Super Tuesday was either the bumper sticker twenty twenty four. No off Ramps. Let's reassemble the panel with that uplifting thought. Jeannie Shanzano is back. Democratic analyst Bloomberg Politics contributor, joined by Republican strategist Lester Munson at BGR Group. Try to lift you up here, Jeannie, but this is what we have. How does Joe Biden try to leverage the moment here if he can't get a bump out of the State of the Union.
Yeah, no bump. You and Cayley make me very depressed. This is gonna be a hard meats. I think, you know, I think what we're going to see on both sides, because they are both as wildly unpopular as Gregory just was taught talking about, is they are gonna be talking about Hey, wait a minute. You may not love me, but look at the other guy. He's dangerous, he's you know, incompetent, he's stupid, you know, all of the things. So I
think it's gonna be an incredibly negative campaign. I think we're already seeing that, and it's just gonna get worse from here. So I guess we do have to buckle up to use your Thelma Louise reference.
Sorry, yeah, take that bet.
And I'm sure Lester your bunk buckled up as well. To the point Joe was asking Gregory about the seventy seven thousand Nikki Haley voters in Georgia, I'm sure takes some of that off for early voting before she actually left the race. But even when she was in the race, we were seeing that there was what twenty to even forty percent of Republican primary voters she were specifically making
the choice not to pick Donald Trump. How worried should he be about trying to draw those voters back into his camp over the next eight months.
Well, that's clearly his biggest challenge. And in addition to you know, kind of driving out his base voters, he's got to appeal to those nicky Haley voters. There's an obvious move here for Donald Trump if he wants to do it, which is persuade NICKI Haley to be his running mate. This is, you know, effectively what Joe Biden did four years ago. He went and found his toughest critic in the primary, Kamala Harris, and made and brought
her inside the tent. Donald Trump could do that. If he can do that and demonstrate some flexibility, I think that that changes the dynamic for him and makes it makes his victory a little more likely, maybe substantially more likely.
In November, we talked about the no Labels effort a couple of days into the Super Tuesday week because that was going to be the moment they held a secret ballot. They say they're going to run someone. Well, we still don't have anyone. There have been reports about names, Genie and I wonder if you're still waiting for something to emerge that could be a game changer, or if your focus is locked on RFK Junior, who today has the nation in a lather over his potential vice presidential pick.
Bring it on, Aaron Rodgers, Jesse Ventura, It's going to be a fun one. You know. I can't help, but again say that for no Labels or quite frankly, any other third party non party. They don't like to describe themselves as a party. The idea that they are going to be able to get electoral votes is really difficult to imagine. And so what they will be doing is
spoiling and that remains a big, big problem. So, you know, I don't I would love to see where the sponsorship, the money for No Labels is coming from, what the rules are going to be, and all those kinds of things that they say they're going to tell us, So hopefully we get that information. But I think spoiling is really the watchword when it comes to No Labels, and I understand that's not what they wanted to do.
So, Lester, do you agree on the on the spoiling point? And who is there any candidate that No Labels could put up, any ticket to candidates Republican Democrat that they could put up that would not act in that spoiling capacity. Is there any world in which it actually might work?
Kelly?
As a lifelong Chicago Bears fan, I can tell you that Aaron Rodgers is a game changer. Uh And and I don't necessarily mean that in a good way. No he's he's. He would be the ultimate game changer, would they? Would no labels be a spoiler the probably probably. But if there were ever, if there were ever a year where the where a third party on the ticket could make a difference and get some electoral votes, it's this one. The two main candidates are so unpopular that there's just
this there seems to be. Seems to me that there's a real lane for a vibrant third party candidacy to make a difference here. So I wouldn't while I suspect Genie's corrected it'll end up spoilering, I would not rule out that if they get the right the right people on that ticket, that it could be something different this time.
Interesting. I don't know, Genie. Maybe Aaron Rodgers could redefine the role and be like a working vice president, still play the games on the weekends, you know, maybe a little less policy that time of year. Do Joe Rogan on the side deliver the message for this new administration, We just figured a lot out.
I feel like, yeah, you are really selling it, Joe. I think that's the way to go. And you know, maybe it'll start a trend. We'll have vice presidents who are doing two three other jobs at the same time.
Everyone on this show knows Jesse Ventura would be more fun. Lester. Let's admit it right now.
You know he's got a great screen presence. He was terrific in Predator, as I recall, and he was like, yes, maybe maybe not great as governor of Minnesota, but pretty good on TV and in the movies.
The ain't guy time to bleed campaign? I can see it and hear it. Kaylee is not on board with me on this great panel, Lester. Thank you Lester Monson at BGR. Genie Schanzo, Bloomberg Politics contributor, thank.
You for humoring needing.
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