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They are bad. Welcome back, lawmakers back from all four corners of our great nation to solve the problems facing us now, and that begins with averting a government shutdown. However, there are a lot of questions about whether that is possible with so few days left until of course, we're looking at midnight Saturday, and it's a whole other sound that we're going to talk about right now with Congressman Dan Kildee of Michigan. Yeah, that's from the picket line.
The Congressman was there himself just a couple of days ago. This is sound right now live from Detroit, as members of the UAW anticipate a visit from President Joe Biden. He's on the ground. We saw his arrival with on fane from the UAW and Congresswoman Debbie Dingle. Unclear exactly what the choreography here will include, but we'll keep you posted. This is live sound though of the picket line as they wait for Joe Biden, who will be the first
sitting president. We're told to ever visit a picket line. The optics here are quite remarkable. And that's where we begin with Dan Kildey, who joins us from Capitol Hill. A congressman. Is great to see, and we welcome you back here. I wonder if this results in an endorsement from the UAW. You are on that picket line. Is Joe Biden doing the right thing by being.
There, Well, he's certainly doing the right thing for the American economy and for the American worker by being there. You know, we saw fourteen years ago the federal government intervene the workers in those factories make big sacrifices in order to keep the auto industry alive here in the United States, and we succeeded that sacrifice. Now I think should be repaid, and that's what the President is arguing for.
That's what I'm arguing for, and that's what the UAW is negotiating for it to try to get back to where they were before the industry nearly fell. So he's definitely doing the right thing for the US economy. The politics takes care of.
Itself There's been a lot of talk about competing interests, as some see it, between supporting organized labor in this case and pushing a transition to evs specifically not just green energy, but EV's within the auto industry. I wonder how the Democrats can straddle this and how the President can succeed by pushing these two because the union seems to see it in a different way. Congressman, how about you.
Well, they may see it in a different way, but they don't fear the future. I mean, I talked to these workers on the picket lines. I talk to them in the grocery store. They're my neighbors. Yeah, they don't fear the transition to electric vehicles. What they fear is that the companies will use that transition as a way to take take work away from union workers and give it to unrepresented, non union shops. And so much of the negotiation is not so much about whether the world
will change and more vehicles will be electric. That's going to happen no matter who builds them. The question for us, for those workers is to make sure they have their share of that future, not that they have that new that transition used as a mechanism as a way or an excuse to take work away from union jobs.
Congressman, the President is just now speaking to members on the picket line.
Here.
He's standing next to Sean Fain with a bullhorn in his hand. Let's just listen to this for a moment and hear what he says.
It's right here in our own in our own area. It's corporate greed and the weapon we produced to fight that enemy. Yes, liberators, the crew, liborators, the last people, all of you working your butts off on those lines to deliberate product companies. That's how we're gonna defeat these people. That's how we're gonna defeat corporate greed is by standing together.
You know, this is a historic moment.
The first time in our country's history that is sitting us a president has came out and stood on the picking line, chose to stand up with workers in our fight for economic and social justice.
All right, that's Sean Fain. We had just missed the tail end of President Biden's remarks, which were apparently only a couple of seconds long. Congressmen, the optics here are really something, because I'm also remembering a day when the executives from the Big Three were on the north lawn of the White House with President Biden, with a big crowd there to usher in the transition to evs and essentially helping him promote Bidenomics. Are those not competing interests.
I really don't think they are. In fact, I was there with the President and the leaders of the Big Three, and I was there on the picket line, all supporting the same thing. This is really about how the structure of the economy in the next one hundred years will look. The last hundred years we saw the rise of the labor movement and the construction of the middle class in this country. So as we make this transition, and it's
inevitable that we will, the technology will drive that. The real question is whether or not the workers who help save those companies will also be in a position to get the new work that will be developed as a result of the transition to electric vehicles. It's different work, it's a different kind of material that is used. Products are going to be different, but they're going to be assembled by somebody. And what UAW was saying, what I'm saying, and I know the President is saying, is that those
jobs ought to be American jobs. They ought to be union jobs. They ought to be done by the same people who helped build those companies in the first place, and fourteen years ago made a sacrifice to rescue those companies from extinction.
Yeah, we're spending time with Congressman Dan kilde Democrat from Michigan with us as President Biden visits the picket line, and it's one that Dan Kildy is no stranger to. We had a grand debate, of course, about the Chips Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, the IRA Congressman. You talked to us in the throes of that debate. Were there enough considerations for workers in that legislation.
Yeah.
I would have liked to have seen more. The way I, for example, wrote some of the legislation that I authored regarding the transition to electric vehicles would have required or given a stronger bonus for that union work. But that's not how it worked out. Much of it is left to how we implement, and that's why I think it's
important who the President of the United States is. What we're seeing now is unprecedented growth in those jobs that are directly related to renewable energy, to electrification of transportation, A lot of that is coming home, and that's because we've created an environment where there are incentives for private capital make those sorts of investments. That's a good thing.
Of course, I would like to have been able to do more, but what we've done is really significant, and were beginning to see the results of that.
Any sense of how long this is going to drag on for.
No, I don't have a good sense of that. It's going to be determined by not the President, not myself. It's going to be determined by the UAW and the company is sitting across the table. My hope is that it's sooner rather than later. But you know what, I'll stand with the workers. As long as they're fighting for fair wage for themselves and their families, they're going to have us with them.
Well, I have to ask you about what you're up to on Capitol Hill now, and that is, of course, trying to keep the government functioning. Here and talk about a couple of competing headlines. This is on the Bloomberg terminal right in front of me, McCarthy working overtime to overcome hard right before shutdown. That's one story. The other one,
McCarthy says, House will pass stopgap with border security. And now we understand the Speaker is asking for a meeting with the President on border security when we have something like four or five days to figure all of this out. Are we beyond the point of saving this situation? Congressman, Is the government going to shut down this weekend?
Well, I fear that it will, because you know, Speaker McCarthy talks a good game, but it's actions that speak louder than words. On Thursday, he sent everybody home. Here it is Tuesday. Congress is just now being called back into session with just a few hours left to prevent a total shutdown of the US government. You know, this is not a time to be having nuanced conversations about policy. This is the time for us to roll up our
sleeves and keep the government open. And let's face it, what Speaker McCarthy's really doing is trying to remain speaker. He made a bad deal with some of the most extreme members of the United States Congress, and unfortunately he's requiring us to pay the price for that bad deal with the threat of a shutdown. The solution is a bipartisan solution. I'm a member of the Bipartisan Problem solvers caucuss. We've offered our solution. We had a bipartisan budget deal
back in May. I would put that on the table as a solution. That's how it's going to end. The question is what sort of pain do we have to go through between now and then? And we ought to be playing chestnut checkers. We ought to look a couple of moves down the game and get there sooner rather than later and try to prevent some of the harm that will come from a shutdown.
Well, you're on the Ways and Means Committee, you serve on the Budget Committee. You must be hearing things that we don't hear. Congressman. Is the Senate going to get us stopgap bill to the House before Speaker McCarthy does.
Well, I hope they do. I've talked to my senators. I've encouraged them to take up legislation that would be a bipartisan spending package, include a short term and long term implication, and send that over to the House and then see if the Speaker McCarthy would put that bipartisan
deal on the table. If he doesn't, obviously he owns this shutdown either way, but he could prevent it by simply doing that and then sharpen his arguments, and if he wants to have those conversations about policy, we're all ears. We just don't want to do it with the threat of a shutdown of the American government as his leverage in getting something that he can't get through the normal legislative process.
Well, you said something interesting. It's amazing to me how short memories are. But there was a deal back in August when we were heading for a potential government default that was supposed to prevent all of this drama. What if Speaker McCarthy did bring that bill back to the floor that's already passed. Could it pass again today?
Absolutely? You had two thirds of Republicans voted for it, almost three quarters of Democrats voted. That was obviously a bipartisan deal. I got over three hundred votes in the House of Representatives.
Now, is this whole drama about avoiding emotion to vacate it?
Sure is. The entirety of this drama is about the Speaker trying to avoid that motion to vacate, which obviously was a mistake for him to agree to in the first place. I mean, he changed the rules to give his I guess a dozen or so true opponents in the Republican Conference the tool that they're now using against him.
That was a mistake. But you know what, if he wants to have a conversation about how to handle this whole thing and a bipartisan fashion, he should call Leader Hakim Jeffries, and he should do it right away because we're I'm sure willing to come to the table and have that conversation.
If the Speaker said I'm just going to go for it, I'm going to bring this Senate seear to the floor, or the deal we already made, or the options that you forwarded and Matt gets or someone did trigger the motion to vacate, would Democrats come to the Speaker's defense to help him keep the job.
I mean, it's hard to say. I would have to have a conversation with our leader on that question, but I will say this, I'm not super excited about being a party to Republican dysfunction in the House and the deals that they've made with one another, putting us in a position where we have to make that kind of a call. If the Speaker's really interested in trying to avoid that eventuality and he wants Democrats to be involved, he should make that call to Leader Jeffries.
I'm glad you could talk to us today. Congressman Dan Kildy, great to have you back Democrat Michigan's eighth district with us live there joining us from the Canon Rotunda in Washington. You would have known that, or maybe you did by watching us on YouTube, where we invite you as always, search Bloomberg Global News and click play.
There we are.
Cameras are lit up in the studio as we assemble our panel. Rick Davis joins Bloomberg Politics contributor and Republican strategist along with Alvin Jordan Rock Solutions, Vice President Democratic Analysts. Gentlemen, it's great to have both of you here. Alvin, I'll start with you, as the Democrat. Do you want to see your president there today? As the first sitting president on a picket line has got the bullhorn out right now, shaking hands.
Absolutely. I think we're at a place where it is more than warranted. I think the political type rope that the president finds himself in is one that makes it
understandable that he would be there. And all of that is in addition to the fact that you know president or the former President Trump will be there tomorrow, and so it is very much, I think a race to be kind of first in that way, inside you kind of have to take a step back and applied kind of the effort, I believe, especially considering that it is a bit of a political tyro, considering that the push forward ev and things of that nature is so prominent
and also present in the conversation as well. Definitely, you know, a new time that we find ourselves.
In, Rick Davis, What does the President say to Mary Bara what she calls him later on?
You know, Look, I mean I think that he's going to say what he's been saying since he was first elected to Congress, I'm the Union President, and he's acting that way today. Look, I mean he was kind of forced into this by Donald Trump announcing that he was headed there, and.
Joe Biden wants a rose Garden strategy.
But I think today signals the end of the rose Garden strategy. I think the two biggest impacts is he's forced to go and hang out with his Union buddies, which which he should.
Have done to begin with.
And all the polling now indicates that he's either an a horse racer behind he needs to start a campaign today.
Well, there you have it. From Rick Davis and Alvin Jordan. The campaign is on, and a lot more from our panel straight ahead on the fastest show in politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Joe Biden has now officially become the first president to visit a picket line. He chose Detroit, Wayne County. Of course, the UAW now day twelve of the strike against the Big Three. Another reason I guess that this becomes historic times.
Well, Street didn't over conquer the milk.
Built class. So let's keep going.
You deserve what you've earned, and you've.
Earned a hell of a lot more than you're getting paid now.
You deserve what you've earned, and you've earned more than you're getting now, so says Joe Biden. As we reassemble our panel, Rick Davis is with US Republican strategist Bloomberg Politics contributor, joined today by Alvin Jordan, Democratic analyst Rock Solutions Vice President. There are your optics, Rick, Was it the right move here to show up a day before Donald Trump? Did the President just get something for himself?
Yeah? I think so.
I think he is really in, even though this is probably not a campaign event. I don't know, but he's he's really This is the this is the kind of campaign Joe Biden wants to wag. He wants to be amongst the union members. He wants to be talking about their struggle for fairness. He wants to be talking about the middle class and the pressure they've been under. And it's a huge change of message, change of pace for him,
and it fits who Joe Biden is. So as you can hear from the clip, he sounds really comfortable talking about Biden for their rights as blue collar workers. So you know, it is going to stress out some of those people who would prefer him to stay in the White House and campaign from the Rose Garden. But I think he's out there now and he's comfortable, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start doing this more often.
It'll be a picket line campaign. I guess, Alvin, what do you think, Alvin about Rick's point that this is kind of really the beginning of the Biden reelection campaign? Does it begin today?
It has to write? I think just the fact that the president is there shows the sense of urgency that you know, we found ourselves. And I think, you know, also the important point to consider is, you know, just as much as this is about the picket lines themselves, the real question is who the UAW will endorse next year for the election, and so I think this is the perfect place to kick it off in that way.
You know, the many will say that it's a bit too late in the game, but I think just right ahead of the former president showing up tomorrow, it definitely sets the scene.
Alvin. Isn't the first move Republicans make here is putting an ad together of Joe Biden with the leaders of all the big three. I asked Congressman Kilde about this earlier. He spent a lot of time over the past couple of years with executives like Mary Barrow, the leaders of Ford and Stillantis. I guess we used to call Chrysler he's brought him to the White House, he's gone to Detroit. It's really been it seems like pretty productive relationships so far.
Wouldn't that be the first thing Republicans remind us of?
I mean, I would think so, I think, why not?
Right?
But I do think when you take a step back and look at it in totality, you realize that it really is a bit of a tightrope, if you will. And I think that, you know, just as much as their support for kind of our our labor president, if you will, and his kind of staunch support of unions, uh, you know, historically, I think there has to be you know, room for you know, kind of the look ahead as far as where the country is going relative to to EV.
And I think, you know, part of the reason why we'll probably hear you know, President Biden making such you know, kind of quick and nimble remarks is for the sole fact that the talking points can't sway too far in one way or the other, because, you know, let's not kid ourselves. We still are talking about a massive switch to to EV that's already underway, and so I don't necessarily think that that one kind of outweighs the other when when you look at it from a business perspective, at least.
Rick Davis speak to the contrast. Now, what's going to happen tomorrow. Donald Trump's going to go to Detroit. It's going to be more of a prime time more of a formal address. Joe Biden's standing in in a parking lot or something with these guys with a bullhorn. And I'm sure that this is all deliberate. Donald Trump's going to do his normal thing. I suspect a lot of
people show up. But what is his message here to compete with what we just saw and heard, knowing that that pay gap among workers versus executives in the Big Three existed during his presidency.
Yeah, well, he'll ignore history and he'll queue off of what Joe Biden's saying today. Right, He'll take everything that Joe Biden said as to the plight of the unions and say, Joe Biden's responsible for that. He's the reason that the middle class is on your pinch. His inflation is the reason that you're spending powers reduced. He's the
reason gas prices are going up through the roof. I mean like he's just going to unload on the guy, and probably that would be sort of a normal campaign approach, but I'm sure he'll throw in all kinds of other crazy stuff because I'm must say, I mean, the Donald Trump campaign doesn't disappoint when it comes to up in
the ante on crazy. So we'll be talking about all kinds of interesting things that Donald Trump has said and in contrast to what I think is probably a pretty sober debate by his GOP opponents going on at the same time. And so who do you think the media is going to cover that crazy? And I think that's exactly what Donald Trump has in mind.
Well, you you went there. Let's talk about the debate for a moment. That's going to be the counter programming tomorrow night. Asa Hutchinson did not make the stage, so the field is winnowed by one. I'm guessing tomorrow night is not a good night to be round Santas Alvin, what.
Do you think, honestly, I don't know that it hurts tomorrow, To be honest, I really think that we're talking about the race for SACON at this point. At this point, and so honestly, as the nation tunes in, I think it'll be just you know, who's going to be, you know, the opposing figure when we all you know, kind of get get down to the nitty gritty if you will.
And so I don't necessarily know tomorrow if if it is you know, kind of bad to be, you know Ron Decantis or or you know, Governor Chris Christy or whoever you want to throw in there. I think whoever is able to kind of capture, you know, those kind of quick sound bites that are able to be shared over the days following. Well, of course, you know, kind of help themselves. But you know, it just it never it never hurts to to you know, kind of move
the needle in that way. But you know, when we look at it, Trump is so far and head of the feel in that way that I really think that tomorrow, you know, barring some type of you know, curveball or theatrics, you know, it really is just kind of window dressing, if we're being honest about it.
Well, it seems to me that you know, at least in most polls, Ron de Santis remains in seconds. So I don't know if it's a dogpile on Ron as you put it once, Rick, or if it's a different story tomorrow. But listen to Tonald Trump at a speed. Yesterday he's talking about this upcoming debate and this is actually on Fox, and he's telling people not to watch the debate on Fox. Here we go. They you ought to stop wasting the time.
You know, they're wasting a lot of time with these ridiculous debates that nobody's watching. Their last debate was the lowest rated debate in history.
That's a good.
Compliment, is it?
Now?
What was I doing, Marjorie? I was someplace else, wasn't I have? I was doing another interview. We had two hundred and seventy one million people listening to the Tucker Carlson interview.
That's an old time. They love it.
So here we are back in the thick of campaign, right we are.
Just Ana Parino jumps in and they go to something else. Rick, This I suspect is not helping Fox. But is there some truth to what Donald Trump said?
Here?
I mean, who's watching this thing tomorrow?
Yeah? How happy is Rupert Murdoch to have retired just now? Yeah?
I mean doesn't care whose show he's on. It's the Donald Trump hour whenever he's on TV. And you've got to take whatever he gives you and look, I mean he's it's smart on his part. Don't watch that debate. As Alvin said, it's a fight for second. Who cares second doesn't win, and he's got some good talking points because nobody's really challenged him. And now Asa Hutchinson's not even going to be into debate. He's one of the
most vociferous critics of Trump. We'll see what Christine does to try and take advantage of the one percent that Asa had to maybe try and get them on board with his campaign. But I would say it's not for not pulls our shrinking on Donald Trump in Iowa, New Hampshire, that's where the campaign actually is occurring, not in the other forty eight states. And you do see some movement by Nicki Haley in the most recent poll overtaken Ron DeSantis in New Hampshire. There's life out there, and so
it's too soon to turn off the tube. It's too soon to be over confident by Donald Trump. But you're never going to change that. But I do think it will be interesting to see exactly what happens tomorrow night.
It sure will. I don't know what Joe Biden's going to start doing a counter program these things. But we can have that conversation on another day with Frick and Alvin coming up next. Calls for Senator Bob Menendez to resign grow ever louder and a very important voice from New Jersey has joined those calls, and we haven't even talked shutdown with our panelneck. So stay with us.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us live weekdays at one eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.
Well, bad situation apparently just got a lot worse for Senator Bob Menendez, just indicted, of course, days ago on federal corruption charges. We've had, I don't know what it was, nine or ten, eleven the most recent count of senators criticizing Bob Menendez calling for his resignation. But the big one just drops. As you've been hearing on Bloomberg, Senator Corey Booker called on his fellow New Jersey Democrat to
step down. Didn't say anything in front of a camera or a microphone, but out with a statement quote the details of the allegations against Senator Menendez are of such a nature that the faith and trust of New Jerseyans, as well as those he must work with in order to be effective, have been shaken to the core. He goes on to say, stepping down is not an admission of guilt, but an acknowledgment that holding public office often
demands tremendous sacrifices at great personal cost. To here we are said, he was ready yesterday for any cost, it seemed, Senator Benendez.
For thirty years, I have withdrawn thousands of dollars in cash from my personal savings account, which I have kept for emergencies and because of the history of my family facing confiscation in Cuba. Now this may seem old fashioned, but these were moneies drawing from my personal savings account based on the income that I have lawfully derived over those thirty years.
Stuffed in pockets in clothing, no mention of the golden bars. As we reassemble our panel, Rick Davis is joining us. If you're with us on YouTube, wouldn't you like to be where Rick is? In sunny Arizona. Bloomberg Politics contributor Republican strategist Alvin Jordan's backed Democratic analysts from rock solutions. Rick, I've never heard of anything quite like this, just going back through yesterday's news briefing, but this update now from Corey Booker. Is Bob an Endez done well?
He's certainly on the way to be done.
I mean, it is quite unusual for other members of the United States Senate, the probably most exclusive club on the face of the earth, to criticize other members of the Senate, and so this is a major departure from the normal decorum.
The deference that has shown. And I would say Corey Booker, very.
Popular Democratic senator from New Jersey, carries a lot of influence in that state, and I am sure they are thinking about how to defend this seat in the upcoming elections because Menendez was up and who's going to be running. Can't imagine a scenario where Center Menendez is able to successfully defend a seat under this cloud.
I'll ask you the same thing, Alvin, is is it curtains for Bob Menendez?
For sure? I think you know, if we're taking a pole of when you can you know, tell or determine when when it's over, it's when you look around and your you know, kind of top allies are coming out to say, hey, I think I think it's just time to step down, and even with the window addressing if it's not in a mission of guild, and we all understand that, but the optics are what they are, and at this point, you know, if it's not over, it will be very very shortly.
He says, he's going nowhere. Rick, what happens if three four months go by and the Senate, you know, kind of has its own George Santos, Does everyone move on?
No? I think this is going to linger.
He was able to sort of get through a previous indictment, he was ultimately not convicted and survived it. But I think this is significantly different. I think this is salacious in the storyline, and that's going to stick with him.
And I think that it's going to be up to the.
Leadership Democratic leadership to put heat on him to say, look, you're an important guy, you've done well. You need to defend yourself in court, not in a re election. You need to step aside so we can run somebody who can hold that seat, because that is a critical seat for the Democra a majority in the Senate.
I haven't asked either of you guys about what's going on in the House, never mind the Senate when it comes to a potential shutdown, this these questions. I feel insane at this point asking people every day about this, but there's apparently no solution in time. There just isn't enough time legislatively speaking, here to avoid a shutdown. Alvin, is that your expectation for Saturday at midnight?
It sure seems like we're on the way to it, you know, as we look around with you know, just how it's played out with you know, the House being sent home last week and brought back this week, We're
we're really just running out of time. I mean, you know, there are only so many hours in a day, and the conversations that have been had up to this point have proved to be you know, completely empty in that way, and I think where we are is at a point of, you know, if the shutdown indeed happens, that you know, we're really you know, just looking solely at House Republicans in that way, as we've completely just not not been efficient in our talks. And again, you know, there there's
no need for any any policy here. We just need to you know, find a solution. And I don't think that that is going to happen in time.
Yeah, well, I mean, even if it showed up today, there's not enough time to get all of this done. It appears, Rick, there's talking. We discussed this with Congressman Killed the earlier in the hour, the Senate delivering a continuing resolution a stopgap bill to the House at some point before the end of the week. Chuck Schumer's moving
on that today. It's also been suggested that Speaker McCarthy needs to let things shut down just to curry favor, let some of the bad blood out of the House before he deals with things and starts working with Democrats to pass a CR. Is that how this ends?
It might.
There's obviously not a clear endgame for the Speaker.
Every avenue he's tried have been thwarded by different members of his caucus on the far right.
And so I think he's in a trap position.
I think your interview with Dan Kilde you remember the Ways of me as a Budget Committee was really timely because I think he has actually the right idea. Pick up the phone and call Hakim Jefferies. He can actually help you pass all of this stuff by Saturday's deadline. But you can't spend all your time negotiating with Matt Gatz if you expect to get this done.
So there is a pathway.
It's just a question as to whether or not the Speaker has come to the end of his rope, because even if you get through this with a short time shutting down the government, you still have to pass all these spending bills and you're right back into the fire. And so that's a big question for me, is whether or not this is a Bayner type exit where he gets his spending done and then exit the stage and leave the chaos caucus to itself.
Is there anyone else to take that job?
Well, there's always somebody who wants to be Speaker, and my guess is probably not his Number two Steven Scales.
He's fighting cancer right now.
But there are a lot of talented people who've served in his group, and any one of them could step up without the deal that exists that allows one person to call in the question his leadership.
Amazing. Rick Davis and Alvin Jordan, great conversation today. They're back with us for some final thoughts. Next here on the Fastest Show in Politics, I'm Joe Matthew In Washington, where there are clouds hanging over the Capitol.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.
I look back to where we were at this time yesterday. Little has changed with regard to shut down politics. But we saw history in the making, at least briefly with President Biden. We didn't know exactly what the choreography for this whole thing would be, but he did get on the picket line, so to speak, grabbed a bullhorn, yep, made good on his promise, and based on what we're reading, made history indeed.
And that's what Sean Fain had to say. This is the first time a sitting US president has done this, and that's exactly what Biden did. He had some pretty supportive words for union members.
Sure did.
Let's listen, U aw you sved the automobile industry back of two of the H fours made a lot of sacondviics gave him a lot, and the companies were in trouble and now they're doing incredibly well. And guess what you should be doing incredibly well too.
He says, they need to step up for us, Kaylee, and he sure sounded like a union leaders. Yes there you are, Yes, you say so. It's in us versus the when you put it like that. But I've been making the point or at least reminding people the number of times he had the leaders of the Big Three at the White House to help forward the transition to EVS and thus Bidenomics. So what's the next phone call with Mary bar are going to be?
Like?
That's a really good question. This is the conundrum for the Biden administration. On the one hand, this president wants to be both the most pro union and history. On the other hand, he wants to be a climate president and advanced his EV agenda and a transition to electric vehicles powered by clean energy. So it's very difficult when you have the company saying, on the one hand, we can't afford this what they're asking for. The President was asked at the picket line if he thought the UAW
should get a forty percent raise. He said, yes, but you need automakers to be able to afford to invest extra profits into advancing technology, like when it comes to EV's.
We spoke earlier in the program with Congressman Dan Kildey, a Democrat from Michigan, who was on the picket line two days ago and didn't even try to wager on how long the strike might go for, but seems to believe, in fact believes very strongly that these are not competing mandates. If you will. We talk a lot about the FEDS dual mandate, and the President's got his own. Yeah, support union labor and transition to evs, and they're bumping into each other.
Yeah, it's a you want your cake and to eat it too. And of course you had the likes of Transportation Secretary Pete Buddha Judge over the weekend saying this should be a win win, everybody should win. I guess it's just a question of if everybody can.
Yeah, well, put as we bring in Sharon Block, I've been looking forward to this conversation. I know you have two Kaylee, Professor of Practice and executive director at the Center for Labor and adjust Economy at Harvard Law, with quite a resume, former member of the National Labor Relations Board and former senior advisor of the Biden Harris transition team, and Sharon has one foot set in the future here as we look at an evolving workforce. Sharon, it's great
to have you welcome to Bloomberg. Based on what we're just saying, saying, what do you make of this, this dual mandate for this president to support union labor and the transition to EV's. Are they not arguing with each other now?
And I think, you know, Joe Biden is the president to really show how they work together, because they're both incredibly important to him. And I think that one way to think about it is his vision for the EV future is a future where it doesn't come at the expense of workers, but that workers have a voice in
how we make this transition. I think we've heard Sean Fain, president of UAW, say over and over again he doesn't want to stop the move to EV's, but he wants to make sure that his members have a say in
how it comes about. And so I think, you know, President Biden just sort of he personifies the fact that workers have to win the EV future and they're only going to be able to do that if they've got a meaningful seat at the tape ball, and that's I think what the strike is A is a lot of what the strike is about.
And of course, Professor, it was Biden that was there with the UAW today, tomorrow it's going to be former President Trump. And I'd like to call attention to something the former president posted on True Social earlier. This is the quote, the only thing Biden could say today that would help the striking autoworkers is to announce the immediate termination of his ridiculous ev mandate. Anything else is just a feeble and insulting attempt to distract American labor from
this vicious Biden betrayal. What's your response to that?
You know, I don't really want to respond directly to the former president. I don't even understand what that means. You know, UAW members live in this world, so they are also living with the impact of the climate crisis. So it's in everybody's interest for us to make progress in addressing the climate crisis. UAW members and the rest
of us too. So I think the President key, I'd like to focus on what I think and and Biden wanted to accomplish by coming to Detroit today, by coming to the picket line, which is to signal with these workers that he sees the importance of their voice in
this future. And even more importantly, Joe Biden was the pres in the White House part of the administration when the UAW made these incredible sacrifices to save the auto industry, and so it just makes sense that he's now standing with them and saying, you know what, they deserve to
share in the success too. And there's such a through line for this president from those really difficult days at the beginning of the Obama administration to today with a thriving auto industry, and as the president who's done more to address the climate crisis than any other president. It's just he really does just stand at the intersection of
these historical trends. I think he deserves great credit for coming to the picket line today and for continuing to press for this transition to inn ev future, but having it be a just transition.
Why mandate that transition? Though Sharon as opposed to allowing the industry to move in that direction on its own, he's had partners in the leaders of the big three, and some would suggest that he's playing both sides of the fence here.
Well, I mean, I think if you look at the legislation that's passed, the Inflation Reduction Act, we've got, he's provided a lot of incentives for these companies to make this transition. They're each going to do it in their all, in their own way. This is not a one size fits all transition. But we do have an incredibly urgent situation, as we've all lived through this summer. We need to
address the climate crisis. And the President and worked with members of Congress who supported the Inflation Reduction Act to do it in a way that's achievable, that will accommodate the company's interests, and through the strike, I think we'll make sure that it accommodates the worker's interests too.
You know, Professor, the ev issue isn't the only thing at play here in these issues. In these negotiations between the union and automakers, there's a number of things that they have raised, including just job security more generally, as you see the evolution of technology, not just in terms of if it's powered by an internal combustion engine or a battery, but just technology, technology evolving to the extent that workers who had jobs in the past may not
be looking at those same jobs in the future. How do you guarantee security in existing jobs instead of focusing on retraining workers for new ones, for example. How should we be thinking about that balance?
I mean, I think balance is the right word. I mean that is how uh you can tackle the future. We need a balance between helping workers who want to stay in the industry, who want to learn new skill sets, to continue to be evolving members of these companies and
supporting them as they go forward. But there are also workers who have invested a tremendous amount of their lives in these companies, and so you need to balance that also with some basic level of security to sort of recognize that investment that workers have made in these companies. This is an industry. I think the collective bargaining relationships between the UAW and the auto companies go back like
one hundred years. Think about all the technological changes that this industry has gone through over those hundred years, and they've figured out how to make it work through a very mature collective bargaining relationship. So I think we're going to see them figure it out time too.
You wear a couple of different hats in this conversation, Sharon Block one of them, as I mentioned as a former member of the National Labor Relations Board. I wonder what you think of the distance on some of the other issues, particularly retirement. When the union is coming back around, we're trying to advance. We're talking about advancing into the future of electric vehicles, but they want to go back to an eighty style pension plan and that appears to
be a deal breaker for the Big Three? Is that a bridge too far? If you're trying to get people to the table and make a deal, would you tell them to pull back on that request?
Well, I would certainly never tell them what to put on the table or take off the table. These are very complicated collective bargaining relationships with a lot of moving pieces, and so it's really hard to isolate one particular proposal from all the others to figure out how it's going to play out. The union's going to have to figure out what's most important to it. The companies are going to have to figure out what's most important to them.
No party comes to a collective bargaining situation expecting to get everything that they ask for. So I think you're going to see some give and take. You're going to see some proposals fall off the table or you know, be modified. But again, these are parties that know each other really well. They've got a long history. They have made historic decisions together in the past, and so I have confidence in their ability to negotiate through through this
you know, historic time. But again, if you think about one hundred year collective bargaining relationship, you know they've got a good track record.
Well, and this isn't the only example of collective bargaining and action that we are are viewing in real time at the moment. We of course all awoke to the news yesterday or Sunday evening that the Writers Guild find reached an agreement with Studios, at least a tentative one. At the heart of that issue was another technological advancement. It was about AI. How should we be thinking about AI and the American worker sharre.
You know, I think it's a fascinating issue and I'm really looking forward to seeing more detail about how the WGA and the studios tackled that issue and got to an agreement. I think there are a lot of workers out there who, especially over the past few months over the summer, as we're seeing sort of all of these AI products accelerating and really evolving at a very rapid pace. I think a lot of people are sitting out there thinking how are their jobs going to be impacted by AI?
I think including workers who've probably never really thought about themselves as vulnerable before. And so I think there's going to be a lot of interest and attention to how this issue was revolved was resolved within this collective bargaining relationship. But I think it's also really going to signal to a broader swath of the public the collective bargaining is a really important way of having a say in your
own future. And I'll be really interested to see if there's an expansion an increase in interest in collective bargaining, because we're seeing in all these different sectors ways that in the collective bargaining relationship they're resolving really knotty problems about the future and technology.
Sharon, I just saw a tweet, if I guess we don't call it that an X whatever from Elon Musk as we're talking here, and he says they want a forty percent pay raise in a thirty two hour work week. Referring to the UA doubd here sure way to drive GM forward and Chrysler bankrupt. He says, you know, some people think Elon Musk in this non union approach in a right to work state is the future, and that company's been doing pretty well. Where is he wrong?
I think he's wrong in almost every respect. First of all, I think it's really inappropriate to question the loyalty of the UAW and its members to these companies, as if what they want is to drive these companies into bankruptcy again. It's not that long ago that the UAW members made these great sacrifices to save these companies. So to suggest that they're going to push for a contract again when you put all the different pieces of the contract together,
that's going to bankrupt the companies is just wrong. It's wrong to suggest that, and there's no basis for it. So I would flip though this situation back on Elon Musk and say what's going to happen at tesla if and when there's a good agreement in this strike and his workers see that they can get a better deal if they dot collective bargaining reports.
This is a great question. We've addressed this before, Kaylie. They may feel quite emboldened, certainly after what we saw at UPS.
Yeah.
Is there a contagion effect.
Right, Sharon Block, many thanks for the insights with us here today on Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.