Sound On: QAnon Messaging, Biden Says Pandemic is Over

of saying things that we know insight. It's kind of like the United States of Nicaragua. I mean Bloomberg sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden opens a busy week with hopes for a soft landing. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. As the President returns to the nation's capital after attending the Queen's funeral and before tomorrow's trip to the U N will be joined

in a moment by Pangia policy founder Terry Haines. On the president's rising approval ratings and the fiscal instability he's facing. The president has declared an end of the pandemic, but not everyone agrees. We'll talk with Dr Eric Topel, professor of Molecular Medicine at Scripts Research Institute, later this hour and we'll put all that and more to our signature panel. Bloomberg Politics Contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis are with

us for the hour. President Biden touchdown at Andrew's about a half hour ago. Quick trip to London for the Queen's funeral. Sound of the funeral procession following the service at Westminster Abbey. Dignitaries from around the world gathered to pay final respects. It was really something to see, and you saw it and heard it unfold, of course, live here on Bloomberg radio. Many of these same dignitaries will be back together in a matter of hours as the

U N General Assembly takes place this week. President Biden quick to head home with the first lady. For that reason he will speak Wednesday, which, yes, of course, is fed day after telling sixty minutes last night's that we are getting our arms around inflation. I'm telling American people

then we're going to get control the flesh it. We're in a position where for the last several months it hasn't spiked and in the meantime we've created all these jobs and prices have have gone up, but they've come down. For Energy, it hasn't spiked, he says, but of course it still needs to go down and buy a lot, and the Federal Reserve will likely remind every one of this in just two days. Joining us to talk about it Terry Haynes, founder of Pangea policy here in Washington.

He just happens to be in London, as a matter of fact, and I can't imagine, Terry, that you had this funeral in mind when you first scheduled this trip. You're doing all right. Yeah, doing fine. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us so late. No, no, of course it's it looks it's quite something. It's, uh, you know, a lot of Washingtonians have been in and around inaugurals. Imagine this on one level. Imagine this time is about five Uh. And of course the significance of it is, uh,

you know, almost unprecedented. You've got change out of the head of state after seventy years. So it's very, very consequential. A lot of wit. So, Terry, the Biden Administration seems to have won the argument that we are not in any recession right now, despite the two quarters of negative growth. Can It win the argument that Joe Biden just made the sixty minutes that inflation is bad but the rest of the economy is good? No, I don't think they can. Joe A couple of things. It is, you know, the

facts Auger against them, uh, number one. Number two, I think the experiences of the lived experience of people every day augurs against them. Uh, you know, who have not only experienced the inflation but they're being told that there's serious inflation that's not going to go down anytime soon. Thirdly, uh Biden seems to have a basic messaging prob uh

on this. I thought this was the I thought this was the feds issue to solve a few months ago, and now he wants to take it back and say that we will um, which of course puts him more in the bulls eye rather than less. So you know, I'm I'm not. I don't mistake messaging for reality, but messaging shapes reality sometimes and UH, they're having a hard ton. Well, if you know, he likes to talk about gas prices and reminding that we, uh you know, they've been been

releasing millions of barrels from the strategic reserve. So taking credit for that, um. But of course, you know, as we look at this winter approaching, oil prices may not stay where they are. We're celebrating mid eighties right now, Terry. What do you expect we're gonna WE'RE gonna be talking about when it gets cold outside, because that changes the

whole picture for the CPI, for everything we're talking about. Sure, sure, and I well, I expected to go off for a variety of reasons, uh, one being uh, one being Ukraine and the continue new difficulties there. Another being, uh, what needs to happen in order to help Europe, and I think there's not enough attention paid to that in the United States and why it will be in our interests

to do as much proactively for Europe as possible. So Net net is that, uh, they will probably have there'll probably be a situation where where the price of oil goes up yet again. Uh, the administration is going to need to do something about that. So I think I wouldn't over promise if I were them. You're writing, H Terry, about fiscal instability as another byproduct of these conditions of inflation of monetary policy combining rising fiscal instability. That is

not music to the ears of the Biden Administration. What does it mean? You know, it's not gonna it's not gonna change a lot between now and November. But as we go into next year and this president thinks about running for re election, it's going to be a major story. Right. Oh, I think so. Two things about this. One is, you know, it'd be very facile of me to sit this week, and particularly sit in London this week, and say, you know, we're it's some kind of a hinge here, but a

number of ways we are. But the you know, one hinge we're in right now is the divergence, for the first time in the generation, between monetary policy and fiscal policy. Monetary policy has enabled continued fiscal growth. It has enabled, among other things, uh, the huge splash outs we've seen over the past several years for covid related things and

for the Biden Administration's priorities. Uh, that's all well and good as long as there's a communative monetary policy, but when it starts diverging as it as it will in the UK with the new trust government, that who wants to want to spend a lot, as it will with the Biden administration, as it probably will in Europe, what you're going to have is a situation where debt and deficits are going to rise and that's probably gonna scoop

markets further. So, Um, you know, it's we're we're really looking at the first time, as I say, in a generation where UH policy, fiscal policy makers are gonna have to get out of the Rut they've been in and start thinking more creatively and frankly working across the aisland. Well, the president is feeling pretty hopeful, you know, when you listen to him talk. We've got this new NBC News pull out showing his approval rating rising to forty, which

you wouldn't think we'd be cheering. You know, a water, an underwater number, but that's the highest and almost a year, the highest ince October. How does he push that over fifty? Is it possible? Um, technically yes, I think. In Reality No. I mean, you've got a so this is the high water mark? I think probably you've got forty of the country that's that's dead set against him and you've got another in the Middle Um that you know are are resisting being reached by a lot of the messaging we

talked about before. So he's not gonna have any serious breakthrough any time since. Well, speaking of messaging, uh, you know, Taiwan came up in this sixty minutes interview and I wonder if there is actually a market uh angle to this, and I think your answer is gonna be yes. But listen to what the president said last night when he was asked directly by Scott Kelly at the United States

would come militarily. This is men and women on the ground, airplanes in the air, whatever we're talking about, ships at sea here to help defend Taiwan in the case of a Chinese invasion. We agree with what we signed on do a long time ago and that there's one China policy and Taiwan makes their own judgments about their independence. We are not moving, we're not encouraging or being independent. We're not that that's their decision. But would US forces

defend the island? Yes, if in fact there was an unprecedented an attack. So that kind of talk rattles China. We heard back from them very quickly, very stern reply from the Foreign Ministry, terryhanes. Does it start to rattle the markets. I think it will fairly soon. You know that there's been a divergence of two things, Joe. One is there's been a divergence of opinion between the president and his own uh State Department and military establishments for

quite some time about this. Uh. Secondly, there's a divergence of opinion between the Biden Administration and Congress. Uh. Strategic Ambiguity doesn't mean, uh, you know, going into two different directions in the executive branch. Uh, it means there's some

ambiguity in the policy uh and UH. And finally, there is you know, as Bloomberg's own reporting uh points out just this afternoon, there's some yeah, there's some serious question about whether, uh, the United States used a force in Taiwan and the Taiwan straight could actually accomplish the subjectives. So you know, you you pile all that up together and uh and combine that with the Chinese response, and there is what you've got is increased instability in the

region rather than decreased instability in the region. China's got their own issues and inconsistencies, which I won't go into, but they do. So you've got two powers here that are that are not consistently messaging and uh, and that's bad. So yeah, that will affect them, mark. So I'm sure it's interesting. Now he's said it over four times and the White House has come out to clarify his remarks each time, but without he never seems to change his tune off that. So does he need to call the

communications office? Um, I just think they need whatever it is, whatever our policy is, it needs to be consistently expressed, because that's the thing that's best for the United States and the United States military. That's the best thing that for the people of Taiwan. Getting back to our our conversation about the Fed, Terry Haynes, your expectation, I'm assuming, is seventy five basis points for Wednesday. Do you think

they signal a pause after that? and I wonder if you're in the camp that's worried more than this president suggested in that comment to sixty minutes that in fact continued hiking is going to push this economy into a recession. Maybe, maybe there's no turning back from it already. Well, I think I think this show the United Conversation about this not long ago, and you said to me and what we have the US, two smart people agreed on was that it's sort of obvious to the both of us,

and I still think it's obvious, frankly. The Fed wants to raise and they want to continue to raise and you know, a lot of the Fed boffins, the people that that focused monemaatically on fed policy, I think miss the obvious, which is, you know, by law the Fed is the Fed's job is to get inflation down and get to get it down into a two percent rate Um. I think they're I think what they're doing is they're doing their job. That Congress told them to do. So

I think they're going to continue to do that. And if the result of that is a recession, by the public statements of Pal and brainerd and many others, uh, the Fed's willing to risk that. That's the cost of doing business. Terry Haynes, get home safely and thank you for joining us from this night in London, the founder of Pangia policy and of a regular voice here on

Bloomberg radio. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, where the sun is still up, but for long, and we're gonna assemble the panel next Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano with their take on everything we just discussed and more of what the president said to sixty minutes. IS HE gonna run again? Was that an answer? There's more ahead. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio and after we just

talked to Terry Haynes. He's in the camp for seventy five basis points, which is, of course the expectation. talked a lot more with Terry about the president's sixty minutes interview and we've of course got the job ahead at the United Nations General Assembly this week. So let's assemble the panel, coming off the weekend, our signature panel, this here, Rick Davis and Jennie Chanzano, Bloomberg politics contributors and this idea of Taiwan again being clarified, if you will, by

the White House. Rick Davis, what's your thought on this? More than four times now for Joe Biden to make it clear that the United States military is going to be there to defend Taiwan if China moves in. At what point does Beijing not deal with that line of fire if I could say that as as as it has been. Usually we get the statement back. When does this become a problem, though? Yeah, they, they, they put out a pretty vociferous protest. Uh, you know, shortly after

his comments. And I think the key this time is that he actually confirmed that that we would use US forces in a defense of Taiwan. Now, you know, in the past it's always been one of these things where, yeah, sure we would, we would be willing to defend them, but but that could be coming in all kinds of different forms, right, weapons systems, like what we're doing in Ukraine.

We don't have any boots on the ground there. But this was a distinctly specific question and he agreed that we would be willing to put us for is in Taiwan, in defensive Taiwan. And and that is distinctly different. And so, even though he's been sort of off the reservation on strategic ambiguity four times, this latest time is a real

strategic shift. And if it, if this is what his view is, he should give a speech and lay out what he believes to be the doctrine change that he's doing, because what is getting a little bit dizzying is to have the White House back it up and say, Oh, no policy change here, except you can't take his words and think that that's not a policy change. He's trying to slice this somehow down the middle. I Guess Genie Right.

He's saying that I will defend Taiwan, but we're not encouraging their independence and we're still being true to the one China policy. How do you have all of those at once? Well, you can't. And the reality is is this policy never made much sense from the beginning. I mean, if you just think about it, what does strategic ambiguity actually mean? It's an oxymoron to begin with, and for the United States to have a policy which says that

China and Taiwan are one country. Um, yet the president who has said now five times that we'll go in into rick's point with our military defend Taiwan as an independent country. Well, you really can't have it both ways and I think the reality is, as Joe Biden is saying, sort of the quiet part out loud here, which is that the United States has long sort of wanted to have it both ways. We want to say this, we have this ambiguous policy, but it's in our strategic interest

to have it. And when the president comes out and says, yeah, we'd go in and defend everything about Taiwan, you know this is in keeping with our commitment to what he says is the challenge of the twenty one century democracy. So he actually is saying what makes sense in terms of his beliefs, in the plee's, quite frankly, of most Americans. Yet you have the White House coming back and saying no, no, no, we we are not going to go in and do that.

So you know, the policy doesn't make much stense. We do need clarity on it, but it's been the policy of the United States for decades now. You know, I'm wondering, Rick, if this idea of the of the meeting of the presidents, she and Biden is just off the table these comments, than then what we heard from presidents she last week, uh as, he met with Vladimir Putin in Uzbekistan. I

mean this relationship is not warming. Yeah, I think that's a really important distinction, Joe, because we're talking about how Biden is reacting in a vacuum. He's reacting to a very muscular, very provocative China. Right part of the reason we're even talking about. This is because China is claiming large portions of the South China Sea, is our own territorial water, which is not according to international law. They're flying their jets into, you know, Taiwanese airspace, or at

least what they believe to be Taiwanese airspace. This is this is coming on the heels of a lot of provocative behavior by China. So they're forcing this issue right. I mean in the past, I think the concept of China invading Taiwan was not something that that that that that anybody thought was imminent, and therefore strategic ambiguity, the idea that you leave opened the door to doing something but you don't actually specifically say what it is you're

gonna do it, seemed like a good policy. So, I mean Biden may have something here in the sense that if he's going to be called Um, you know, to show his hand by China, might as well show his hand. I mean, you know, there are many in the foreign policy community that believe China should understand the clear implications of a potential attack on Taiwan. He won't show his hand on the next four years either. Genie. This came up, of course, during the interview on sixty minutes. Are you

going to run again? And pretty interesting. It's it's a different answer actually than we've been hearing. Look, if I were to say to you I'm running again, all of a sudden the whole range of things come into play, that I have requirements, I have to change and move and do in terms of election, in terms of election loss, and this much too early to make that kind of decision. I'm a great respect or of fate, and so what

I'm doing is I'm doing my job. We're going to do that job and within the time frame that makes sense. After this next election cycle here going in the next year and making judgment of what to do. Hasn't he been saying he's going to run? Jeanie, he has, but this is smart politics. You know. He is right, by the way, on the campaign finance rules. If he announced,

he would have to address that. That's why Donald Trump probably hasn't announced, amongst other reasons, because he loses control of the millions of dollars he's raised if he decided to run. So that is a reality and the other reality is political. You know, if if Joe Biden or Donald Trump was to say today that they were running. That would change entirely for their respective political parties what was happening in the mid term elections. So it wouldn't

make political sense. He's smart to stay out of it and he'll make a decision, I think, in the New Year, after the mid term has decided. So is that the unanswerable question? Rick Well, I mean we've heard from other Democratic Congress people he wasn't going to run. So he's they're not doing him any favors by keep bringing it up. Genie's right, right. Nobody in their right mind would actually step ahead of a mid term election and put their

name on the back. That's what he would do. He'd say, Oh, this election is gonna be all about my re election and there's gonna be a lot of Democratic candidates like, wait a minute, I thought it was about us this year. So it is something that I think he has to be cautious about. But again, uh Democrats are going to try and force his hand. Spending time with Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano on a Monday, the fastest hour in politics, this is sound on I'm Joe Matthew and Washington president

also declared an end of the pandemic. A couple of months ago, that would have been the top story right. We're gonna talk about that. Coming up next, this is Bloomberg. President made quite a lot of news last night sixty minutes interview, as we've covered in the first half of this program but one line that really jumped out and grabbed me that we're have been on the front page of every newspaper in the world two years ago, maybe even as he was coming into office. The pandemic is over.

We still have a problem with Covid we're still doing a lot of work on it. Uh, it's but the pandemic is over. That's a remarkable statement, and not everyone agrees with him, of course. Dave Chalk, she the former New York City Health Commissioner, talked to David Weston about it on balance of power earlier. David asked him if the president's right. Well, I wish it were true, David Um,

but it's not. You know, we've got tens of thousands of Americans who have died just in the last few months related to Covid nineteen, tens of thousands of infections a day. Dr Eric Topel joins this executive vice president and professor of Molecular Medicine at Script Research Institute, Author of the Newsletter Ground Truth's doctor. It's great to have you back here. Uh. One, were you surprised to hear of the president of the United States say that so uh, candidly?

And two, is he right? We're going to be with you, Joe. Yes, I was surprised, like you and many others, because unfortunately we're not at a point where we could declare the pandemic is over. The only way to do that is to be many months of very low cases, things that are under control, the virus contained, and we're nowhere near that. And you can't declare the pandemic is over until you look backwards and see that you're in this durable, stable situation.

I guess you know. Another way that that I tend to think of this is imagine if there were any other reason why four hundred, five hundred people were dying a day, it would be the biggest story in the world. But we've actually grown used to this. Yeah, we've been made numb to it, unfortunately, and that's been going on, Joe. UH, four to five hundred deaths per day from covid nineteen, since April. For over six months, it's been a long

plateau and there's no sign that that's letting up. So Dr I wonder, you know, are you expecting a surge in the cold weather? Is that not going to happen this time around? If, if the pandemic is at least less intense than it was, uh, say, last winter? I mean, what happens if we get a new O macron? What's going to happen to that statement? I'm assuming it doesn't age very well. Well, in the near term things are

going to look fairly good because we're coming down. There's B a five variant wave, so there'll be lower levels of circulating virus. That will come down progressively over the weeks ahead. So there will be a law, we will get a reprieve. But in the next couple of months, like November or later, we will see another surge because a new variant, whether it's one we've already seen that has the most immune evasiveness of any variant yet in the pandemic, so called be a dot two, dot seven,

five dot two. I wish it had a better name in that Joe, but that one looks really, really rough because it's going to challenge our vaccines and our infection immunity. But it could be something else, like you said, it could be a whole new family. More than likely it's going to be something we've seen already, which is at right in the country now, one percent level. But remember

when that gets legs, it goes into exponential growth. That's why November, somewhere along the line December, we could be in for more trouble. Wow, no one's gonna have a mask on by them right. No one's testing the way they were, so that sneaks up on us. We haven't been funding covid no one's gonna be able to get tests and Joe Biden is going to get blamed, right, well, uh,

it's certainly not going to be right. Yeah, I mean if we were, if we were going after this virus, getting ahead of the virus, you know, working hard to get nasal vaccines, getting better vaccines that last longer, instead of declaring that we could have an annual shot, where there's no evidence to support that. But we're not doing those things. So the best way is to, you know, really leverage the science, the great science that's ongoing, get

us better tools to work with. So we don't have to rely on masks or the booster shots that last only four months. We have to do better than that. Well, look, although I'm curious, you point out that it's most likely going to be something we've already seen. Does that mean if you are fully vaccinated, if you're given up with your boosting and so forth, you're you're good? Well, it depends.

You See, the variant that is most troubling right now is different enough than be a five the one that we've just been for or going through that it's going to challenge. Uh, the vaccines, probably it will not help. It will be a lot more infections. UH, there'll be a lot of spread. There'll be some protection, of course, from the vaccines and from prior infections in the combination, but it's just it's gonna Challenge things. There's gonna be

more people getting sick, more long covid more suffering. Where is it right now, doctor, and is it around the country? But a very small percentage of infections. Or okay, so that that's how you describe it. It's at the one percent level. So, Joe, if you just look at it, if, let's say, it doubles every week right by the time. It doesn't really you don't see it until it gets to fifty or greater it becomes dominant. So we've got

several weeks of, you know, relative quiescence. But if that one gets going, like it likely will, or others that are in our site, we're gonna we have some more trouble, we have some more bumps in the road ahead. Sounds like it's not time to declare our mission accomplished here. To me, hardly. At what point is it an endemic? When do we start calling it that? Well, you know,

it depends on what definition you prefer. But the way I like to look at it is, you know, if you go back to June, we were down to less than twelve thousand cases a day. You know, right now we're at seventy and we're not, as you said, testing very much. It's a lot more than that, in the hundreds of thousands. So we got down to, UH, two hundreds some deaths a day instead of close to five hundreds.

That's what you call containment. We've been there. We can get there again, but we have to aggressively pursue it. And if you tell people the pandemics over, who's gonna go get a booster shot. Well, that's right. Seriously, especially when people are told now, guys, you don't even need a mask on the New York City subway. Good luck getting everyone to mask up again when the next search happens.

That's that's the concern here to doctor. Yeah, no, if you, if you feed into the fantasy that the that this is over, you're not gonna get anybody to mitigate get boosters, or I mean any significant proportion. We have a big booster problem as it exists today in the United States. We are ranked seventy second as countries in the world for our booster rate, which is one in three Americans only. And so it's it's actually really a pathetic uptake of boosters.

And then to declare the pandemics over. How are we going to get this booster rate up, because that's the best way to protect our population? Unbelievable. Doctor, thank you so much for putting things in perspective. That is a serious reality check from Dr Eric Topel. Oh boy, looking forward to Christmas this year. We're gonna reassemble the panel next rick and Jeannie with their take on the pandemic over. We'll see. This is Bloomberg you're listening to Bloomberg. You

sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for being with us as we get a new week underway here. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. This is Bloomberg. Sound on and we reassemble the panel. Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis or with us as we consider this idea of the pandemic suddenly being over again, the words of Joe Biden in sixty minutes. We still have a problem with covid. We're still doing a lot of work on it. Uh, it's but the pandemic is over. Do any I'm pretty

depressed after hearing from Dr Eric Tulple. I think everyone agrees on that. I mean the idea of going through this again this winter and the numbers now compared to where they were six months a year ago. Why is the president saying that on national TV? This, to me, was one of the most stunning parts of this interview. Um, the president says the pandemic is over. In part he gave a reason, as I heard it, because people aren't

wearing masks. But as you listen to the doctor, of course that is not the situation and you know, you move beyond this. Let's not forget the administration has asked Congress for twenty two point four billion dollars. That is that funding is necessary. And you couple that with the fact if the pandemic is over, what happens to his student loan right off? What happens to the issue of all these people on Medicaid that the states can't remove unless the emergency is called off, and food stamps for

work requirements? All of these factors are, you know, tied to the idea that we are in a pandemic and there is an emergency. All of a sudden he announced that that that it's over. I thought maybe, like Taiwan, the White House would come back and push back against that, but they didn't as far as I know, and so it leaves a very precarious situation. That doesn't mean they can't still right, does the just should the White House clarify those remarks? Rick? You know, I think that maybe

where they are. Um, at some point they you think they're gonna want to turn the page? Uh. You know, you mentioned mission impossible during the the Bush administration. I mean, you know, at some point the president gets tired of fighting the old fight and says, okay, I'm turning the page. mission. Mission has been accomplished. There is I'm sorry, mission impossible. Mission has been accomplished and Um, there's no more pandemic

like a wave of of of a wand. And Uh, where is he going to be, though, if we do have another surge next winter, people are told they can't get on a train or a plane without putting a mask on? I mean, you thought it was bad the first time around. Yeah, I don't think there's any going back. I think at that stage she's gonna sort of adopt the trump type policy, which is just blow through it everybody, I mean like do the best weekend, write it like

a cowboy. Well, speaking of Donald Trump, uh, he held a rally over the weekend and I'm not going to pick through the whole I mean it was so long and he said so many things, but I was really compelled by the way this speech closed. It was quite remarkable actually. You you remember this video that came out a couple of weeks back that some people, including myself, asked,

is this the launch of his presidential campaign? And it was essentially titled I believe a nation in decline and it included very sad sounding music that we've since learned as apparently some sort of has some sort of q and on connection. But just from an optics standpoint, from a performance stamp, want to think this is. This is happening at one of these wild west trump rallies where

he really gets the crowd moving. Now He's speaking over canned music to close the speech, with essentially the same script he used in that video. This is how he walks into it. I'm gonna just take you through this quickly. We won't do the whole thing, but now we are a nation in decline. Okay, the music comes up. We are a failing nation. We are a nation that has the highest inflation in fifty years. And now so he and he gets sort of lower tones like this and

and you know, Gosh, this went on for minutes. We are a nation that allowed Russia to devastate the country Ukraine, killing hundreds of thousands of people, and it will only get worse. It would never have happened with me as your commander in chief. We've got a federal fueral of investigation that won't allow bed election changing facts to be presented to the public. The string has come up bump

where Biden's laptop information. We come to the clothes here, and think you remember how Donald Trump used to wind up the crowd with the make America smarter again, safer again, going through to make it rich again. But he sticks with the low tones over the strings at the end. We will make America proud again, we will make America safe again and we will make America Great. Thank you, Ohio, God bless you. Thank you all. Then the music goes

down and SAMBA DAVE come on. I don't know who's planning this exactly, but some people think that the music is intentional. We'll get to that in a second. Rick, I'm just wondering where you are on this use of you know, for what's really an unpredictable event. That's why people want to go this use of pre production here and music behind Donald Trump. Well, you know, it's always been the greatest show on earth for politics, right. I mean he speaks for almost two hours. He usually unloads

on the candidates that he's there to endorse. Uh, you know, it's really all about him and his grievances, and we saw that in the clips that you were playing. But you know that went on for our over an hour. So so it is predictable in that regard. But I imagine too. I mean they've got to keep this audience Um um entertained and it's a lot of it is the same money that goes to all his rallies. I mean,

he's he's like the grateful debt of politics. I mean people travel around the country going to his rallies, the same people, and so he's he and it was. It

was seen that way. I mean part of what was happening in the audience while that was going on is not only people doing the usual thing, which is holding up their phones to record every minute of his last monologue, but also this sort of you know, what we're told is that Q and on salute, which is pointing the one finger up, you know, and uh, and I was really amazed because I had not seen that in previous rallies. Now this is a very important detail that rick is

pointing out. As the music starts, the strings come up, the president starts talking and, you know, they keep the lights up, I think, for the whole speech. Right. That's just not every trump. All the lights of house lights are up. Uh, everyone. I'm not gonna say everyone, a massive, a wide majority of people in the room, hold their arms up high with the with the one finger and number one finger salute to the air. You think maybe that means America first, but rick, this is a q

and on sign. Yeah, I mean, and it's incredulous to me because I know how hard it is to get a crowd to react. Normally you hand them out a piece of paper when they come in saying on this queue you must do and this look completely spontaneous, as if they knew something none of us knew, uh, and we're responding to it in mass. And so I'd love, I mean, talk about something. You want to learn, a

mystery of what in the world was going on in Ohio. Well, you know, for this speech, I'd like to know, genie does it is it when people point their fingers to the sky? Does that mean more than it appears? Well, we are told, as Rick said, and this is all new to me, that it is an index finger salute symbolizing America first, and it is part of this sort of culture within this q and on community, I guess, if you can call it that, and this America first community.

But you know, what I thought was going on in Ohio, quite frankly, was a mid term election and you have donald trump out there doing this and you've just got to wonder who is he trying to help? This certainly is not helping the candidates for election. You know, it's not going to help them, Mike Dewine, it's not going to help the J D Vance to be out there.

You can't court court, rather swing voter and moderate voters needed to win close elections like this by, you know, going in with this kind of you know, sort of Um, you know, conspiracy theory laden rallies. You know, no matter how moving it is to the people there, it's simply not moving to independent voters. And you know, you had people like Barry McCaffrey standing out there on twitter saying that this was like a Nuremberg hit Hitler rally x. This is what it's come to. So I'm not sure

what he is trying to do. Yeah, well, media matters, uh says they've identified this song as a q and on uh I guess, dog whistle or in this case, theme, identified as W W G, one W G A. that's it. It's posted with that name on spotify. It stands for where we go, one we go all, written by an artist named Richard feel good, which I that's great. Um, but that's the slogan. Yeah, that's the slogan for Q and on. Right, where we go, one we go all hands.

Also the finger in the air. Uh per media matters, one of the Q and on followers commenting online described this as the mother of all q proofs and quote, the biggest nod they've ever given us. Unquote. This is the song music again, and it's it's a real down or else. I don't know if what the world this has really to do with q and on, but maybe it's a meditative theme, but it's perfect when you're describing

a nation in decline, as it turns out. And I don't know, I just wonder, Rick Are we going to see this as the close to all of these speeches? You know, it's hard to tell. I mean what kind of reaction he got on. For me, that sounds like don't want to replicate that, but I just don't know what the meaning of it is. In other words, if where we go, one we go all, where are we going? Uh? And if you look at the conspiracy theories that back up the Q and on, called uh it's pretty disturbing.

So I think that any legitimate reporter that interviews Donald Trump in the near term should ask him the question, what was this all about to start asking? Producer Christine reminds us that's also a motley crue song where we go when we go all genie. Maybe he had to try that one next time. Yeah, that might be a little bit more uplifting. I'll tell you where they're probably not going if they keep this up, is to take over the Senate. And you know poor Dat Vance must be.

I wonder if he knows that song. I mean, I've learned a lot here. I really I didn't know anything about any of this cute stuff. But Rick and genie, thank you. As always, our signature panel, Rick Dave was Geenie Schanzano Bloomberg politics contributors with us here on a Monday. That's not the song. I can leave you with, though,

because you know, today is an important anniversary. So Twenty Years September two thousand two, President George W Bush speaking on teaching American history and civic education with a classic I know it's a blooper, but a classic moment in presidential history's an old Shang in Tennessee? I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee this as fool me once. Yea. Shame on no, shame on you fool me. We can't get fooled again. Can't get fooled again. That's more like it.

Apologies to the former president. I'll meet you back here tomorrow on the fastest hour in politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is bloomber