Sound On: Iranians in Russia, Bannon Goes To Prison

come before our committee. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Iranian boots on the ground in Ukraine. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. As the White House says, the troops were sent there to help Russia use their new drones, the same Kama Kaze drones use against civilians. This week, we'll have the latest from Washington and insights ahead from William Taylor, former US ambassador to Ukraine.

Later Steve Bannon gets four months in prison the same day Donald Trump is subpoena to testify before the January six Committee. We'll talk about both with Bloomberg. Washington reporter Mike Dorning and as President Biden predicts Democrats will keep Congress in the midterms. Will get analysis from our signature panel a Friday with Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzano. We know Russia has been using drones provided

by Iran to target civilians. Over the past week. We've seen horrifying images and read terrifying stories for harrowing accounts. The US says, though, that not only have Iranian drones been used by Russia, and that's not real news, this has been around for a bit. The Iranians themselves are there Iranian boots on the ground in Russia occupied areas of Ukraine. Here, State Department spokesman Ned Price, we assess that Iranian personnel, Iranian military personnel, we're on the ground

in Crimea and assisted Russia in these operations. Russia denies it's even using Iranian made drones, which did not keep the European Union from announcing new sanctions sanctions on an Iranian aerospace company and three Iranian generals for providing them. Pentagon spokesman Brigadier General Pat Ryder says this this new Iranian element has not, however, been enough to turn the tide here he is from a strategic standpoint, it still doesn't change the fact that Russian forces on the ground

continue to lose territory or at best, hole ground. But more drones are coming from Iran is the word today from Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln, making things ever more complex in Ukraine. This idea of Iranian boots on the ground. Let's bring in William Taylor, who I know has strong feelings about all of this, the former U s Ambassador to Ukraine now Vice President Russia and Europe at the US Institute of Peace. Ambassador, Well, come back to Bloomberg.

How significant is it to have Iranian trainers inside Ukraine, whether it's called Russian occupied Ukraine or not. So Joe, it's it is significant, um and and the significance is demonstrates what trouble, what difficulty you want to bind Russia is in. So Russia does not have the ability to manufacture weapons of precision guided munitions. Why because they don't have the components. They can't import the components. United States and other nations have denied them and denied the Russians,

so they have to go other places. And apparently they've gone to Iran apparently they've gone to North Korea. That's what they're that's they're reduced. So it is significant. We've kept a distance though, with all of the hardware that we have provided Ukraine. We pull Ukrainians out of the country and bring them to NATO countries like Poland or Romania to train them and send them back. Now Russia, of course, you know, there's a lot of gray area here.

Russia just brings the Iranians right into Ukraine, but they do it in areas that they call Russia, and I suspect we'll see this in other zones as well. But it increases the risk level, Right if we get into a direct engagement or if Ukraine US in a direct engagement with Iranian forces, doesn't that change the game? I'm not sure it changes the game? Um, but well, um, if the Iranian forces are in let's stay Crimea, which we recognize and the world recognize this as part of Ukraine.

We know that the Ukrainians, apparently without our weapons on using their own weapons, have struck targets, military targets inside of Crimea. So the Iranians are taking some risk in basing in Crimea. And and having the training go on there to help the Russians figure out how to use these drones. There's some risk the the they're vulnerable to

attack from the Ukrainians. We're seeing drone warfare perfected in this conflict, certainly advanced the way the Ukrainians had used drones to sink the flagship uh ship in the in the Black Sea, that Russian ship, the way that they have used them to protect themselves as well. I spoke earlier this week with of all people, Mark Hamill, that the actor Luke Skywalker, who's signed on as Ukraine's so called ambassador of drones. Maybe you guys will get together

at a cocktail party or something. Ambassador, but he's helping to raise money for drones and to get donations of drones for Ukraine. Listen to the way he put it, Ukraine needs drones, and you know they define war outcomes. They are they protect their land, their people there, they monitor the border, their their eyes in the sky, and not just we're not just looking for volnetary contributions, but

if you have an actual drone. I saw that. I was really shocked, because I mean, they give me these updates at least two or three times a week about what's going on, and they said that they've received over five drones. Incredible. I started this. I know he's obviously doing what he can to help. And that's all for United twenty four, this government program to raise money for these types of things for Ukraine. Ambassador Taylor. I just wonder what this leads to, uh, in sort of a

new generation of warfare. So it is a new generation, new generation, Joe. You're exactly right, Um, And both sides, as you say, are using these drones. Um. The Ukrainians are using these drones to to direct their artillery, and their artillery has been enhanced as we know, by the Americans and by other other NATO nations to give them

the ability to strike deep. The Ukrainians the ability to strike deep, and in order to strike deep with accuracy, they need to know exactly where the targets are, so the drones give them that ability, UM. And the drones also are very valuable in identifying other targets that are that are on the front lot. So yes, uh, and these could be civilian drones. UM. The eyes, um, and that that we're talking about here are very valuable for in the military but they don't have to, they don't

have to be weaponized. They've been incredible in in evening the playing field. And what has been, or at least was at first perceived to be a David and Goliath conflict. You can judge for yourself if it still is. But John Kirby, the retired admiral now speaking for the National Security Council. Admiral says they will consider new sanctions against Iran because of this revelation. What would those sanctions look like? Would it matter? Probably would matter. It's a strong signal.

The sanctions that we already have on Iran, like the ones we have on Russia, do have an effect. Um. They send a message that you're not at you. If you're an official Irani in official or Russian official responsible for these war crimes or this war, this unprovoked war that the Russians are fighting, then you're subject to being sanctioned. The real sanctions, though, Joe, are the are the ones

on the economy, on the Russian economy in particular. Um, And of course the Irans have known what that is, and that is that is hurting the Russian ability to continue to pursue this war. So when's the time for

a serious conversation about secondary sanctions. And I know everyone in Washington is kind of afraid to talk about that, But isn't that where we're going here, whether it's Iran or China, wherever it's trying to help Russia, it absolutely is, It absolutely is, And you're right to bring up China.

China is a very interesting case. They while they professed before the war, before the Russians invaded Ukraine, the Chinese and Russians, that is, the President She and President Puttin got together and they said they were gonna work together. There's no limit to their cooperation. But we remember this whereever it is comment however, eve of the war, because on the eve of the war is at the at

the Olympics, the opening of the Olympics. Exactly right, And um, the Russians have been disappointed at the support that they're not getting from the Chinese. The Russians have wanted financial support or on the topic that we're talking about now, the Russians have wanted the Chinese to help the Russians get around evade these sanctions, and the and the Chinese have said no, they're not going to do it. Why secondary sanctions. They don't want to be sanctioned for breaking

these these sanctions on the Russians. They've got enough trouble with the United States at the moment. Can we assume the Irun nuclear deal is dead? My asking you a dumb question here, No, you're not asking a dub question at all. It sounds like there's not much interest on our side with this stuff going on. How does that even how is that even possible? Exactly? How do you how do you have a negotiation with someone who is

arming the Ukrainians in support of the Russians. But it's also complicated where the Russian the Russian has been part, you know, supportive of this deal and now probably not so much. Yeah, what is this going to look like? Between now? In winter? Ambassadors? So much is said and I know that you're not a you're not a general, you're an ambassador, but so much is said about the

closing window because of the season. We're talking about the use of drones in a lot of creative ways by certainly at least Ukraine, in some deadly ways by Russia. But how can Ukraine continue to close the gap before it gets too cold? The right question, that's exactly the right question, Joe. And the real key m The real important factor on the ground in Ukraine is infantry, is soldiers um. And the soldiers are the ones that are moving the boundaries, that are pushing the Russians back. Um.

The artillery is important to help them do that. The drones are important for the artillery, like we were just saying, But it's really the the Ukrainian military on the ground that is steadily in some case, is rapidly pushing the Russians back out of their country. This is going very rapidly, as we've seen. It's a route in the north, it's it's a it's it's it's still moving in the south,

not as fast. But what might happen? What we should keep our eye on, his hair Song that this city down there, it's on the west side of this river, of the of the main river, Nipper River that's going down towards the Black Sea, and the hair soon has about twenty thousand Russian soldiers there that are about to be cut off, Joe. If they're cut off, they're surrounded, they don't have a way to get out, and they

don't have a way to resupply. They're in trouble. He knows Ukraine as well as anyone we can talk to on Bloomberg. William Taylor, many thanks, should have his own broadcast. I could listen to you all day, former US Ambassador to Ukraine, now at the US Institute of Peace and kicking off the fastest hour in politics on a Friday. We've got the panel next time, Joe Matthew, This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound with Joe Matthew on Bloombird Radio.

You know that conversation with Mark Hamill that we had earlier this week, the ambassador of drones has gone viral online. Even the Russian Embassy was tweeting about it today. We know they're listening right now. Maybe we should do a remote right over there on Wisconsin Avenue. Yeah, really, the Russian embassy tweeting some upset about the shirt. I guess that President Zelenski was wearing in one of the many pickups that we got. Man, everybody got clicks on that one.

Everyone got a piece of Mark Hamill saying that five hundred drones now have already been gathered on behalf Ukraine. We assemble the panel and it's great to have Rick Davis back with us, and of course Jeanie Chanzano. Our signature panel wouldn't be really Friday without both of them

together here Bloomberg Politics Contributors, Rick, welcome back. When you hear this idea about Iranian boots and I don't know, you know, we're we're talking about trainers here, It's not like they've got infantry running around, but Iranian operatives whatever you want to call them, on the ground in Ukraine. Isn't that upping the anti uh? Yeah? And I think

we just need a level set this too. There's a u N ban as Security Council ban on the transfer of weapons like these that the Iranians have sent to Russia or sent to Ukraine on behalf of the Russians. So it's not like just this is some kind of a transaction. They're violating u N. Security Council rules against the transport of these kinds of weapons. And then you add insult to injury by flaunting that that that ignorance of of of the law by then sending operatives there.

And it shouldn't shock any of us that the Russians didn't know how to use a controller, right, I mean you know, it's it's just it's just more evidence that the Russian military is really you know, stone age, and they're thinking, and so now they've got to send these Iranians. And and we should also remember that while all this is going on, where the arrange exporting this kind of terror, they're also creating a crackdown at home against legitimate democracy

protesters who are tired of a repressive regime. So, you know, it's one of the worst regimes in the world right now. And and and and frankly, I don't think the world is doing enough to sanction Iran, both because of the export of terror and the skies over Ukraine, but also the way they're treating their own people at home. We should be clear, this information is coming from the White House, Genie,

it's not like Russia announced this. In fact, listen to h ned Price again, the spokesman for the State Department. Russia and Iran continue to lie, continue to claim that there's no they're there. Uh. The Iranians continue to claim that they are not providing this material. Uh. And for

indisputable proof to continue to emerge. So you want to believe me or you're lying eyes Genie, that's right, and and and the EU said they're putting new sanctions on They describe these as kami kaze drones um that Russia has used. And let's not forget the pact of this. Now of the civilian energy has been destroyed or impacted

by this. The latest reports about their their mining this area around this hydroelectric power plant, this dam that they are threatening to blow up, and they're not sure you know if or when that's going to happen, but certainly that is a big threat, the damage to the civilian infrastructure, but civilians on the ground, this is a real attempt at a war of attrition on Russia's part, being aided

by Iran. At the same time, as Rick mentioned, while these protests by dissidents are going on in around and you've got the Biden administration engaging in talks with Elon Musk to provide some kind of starling satellite inside around to support protesters there. So it's a very complicated set of situation, set of circumstances. Rather, and the Russians relentless focus on civilians and civilian infrastructure is something that if they aren't stopped, could really result in great danger that's

that's the reality on the ground there. Genie's referring to a story, by the way, that actually was came from President Zelenski himself. He claims that Russia has mind a major hydro electric damn in in Ukraine. In the Ukraine that that that would flood dozens of towns if they blew this thing. It could be if this happens, a horrifying development in the war. But the drones were talking

about rick, these Kama Kazi drones. I thought it was interesting to read on the terminal that you know, we've actually managed to get these materials so we could take a look at them. You know, some of the drones that that have been shot down and have or or or have some pieces left from after they blow up, and we're trying to find vulnerabilities and see how we might be able to help defend Ukraine or shoot them down.

Don't we have all of this technology already well, first of all, drone uh drone US as a military weapon, especially what they call lord munitions, which is what these are. They fly around looking for a target and then go kill it. And as as Jenny said, you know that

that's the Kama Kaze part they blow themselves up. Um, it's a relatively new development on the battlefield, right and we're seeing it play out for us right in front of you, you know, in Ukraine, and so the protections against it, the anti drone technology comes in a lot of different shapes and sizes, but it hasn't really been proven on the battlefield because we haven't really had to defend against you know, swarms and loan raiders like these.

So yes, there are ways, um, both through electronic measures disconnecting the operator from the drone it falls out of the sky, or you know, different ways of trying to actually shoot down the drone. And we see pictures of those coming out of Ukraine where they're launching rockets against these drones. And so, uh, it is an experiment right now as to what is the most effective way to to neutralize this kind of threat. But look, I mean Iran has been uh marketing these drones around the world

to other despotic regimes. You know, you can look at them up on the internet. It's almost like, you know, come by a drone and attack your own people with it, and and so, uh it isn't new, but I would say, uh, it's it's a development on the battlefield that's going to reshape war as we know it. You heard the ambassador Genie. Does this end in in additional sanctions against Iron? It will. I think we're going to see increasing sanctions, but quite frankly,

it's probably not going to be enough. And and you know, let's not forget. At the same time, you have everybody from President Biden to Mike Pence saying to Republicans like Kevin McCarthy, who may take over the House soon, you can't defund this this effort. You cannot cut this aid. And that is a very real threat as we look at the damage on the ground. It's going to be a huge debate in the next year. Rick and Genie, thank you there with us for the hour. I'm Joe

Matthew and Washington. This is Bloomberg. It was quite the scene when Steve Bannon arrived today for his sentencing. Give a listen. Remember this illegitimate regime. Their their judgment day is on a November when the Biden administration ends. I want to thank you all for coming, thank you, and remember take down the thank you. Okay. By the way, CCPAN people are yelling Trader in the background. It was

crazier when he came out. Uh this, of course, the longtime advisor to Donald Trump not just four months in jail but also six thousand five fine, which shouldn't be too much of a problem for him, I'm assuming because he's been raising money on this story for quite a while. And it happens the same day that Donald Trump gets the subpoena. A lot of people were asking me, how would this another subpoena. No, this is the same subpoena that you saw them vote on in the January six

committee at the very end. Remember they took a vote very end of the last committee hearing, supposedly the last one that will be on TV. Well, he got that today and it says that he must testify beginning November for however long it takes. This could be days. And he's got a hand over the documents that have been subpoenaed by the fourth of November. Now. Mike Dorning has been following this all along, Bloomberg Politics reporter and one of the voices of reason here in the Washington bureau

at Bloomberg. Mike, it's great to have you. Thank you for being here. Is that the coincidence he has come down the same day. It is a coincidence that he's come down the same day as far as I know. Um, it's great to be here, Joe, by the way, great to have you sir. So four months is does that end up being good news for Steve Bannon? I mean, I realized people should understand the significance. He's the first Trump allied to actually be sentenced to prison for anything

involving January six. But he's turned this into a franchise also, hasn't he? Oh for sure? And he's um, you know, obviously using the moment to try to embolden um turn out in the election, saying, hey, the judgment day is November eight. Um, Actually the judgment day on the Biden administration is going to be two years hence, but he needs the people to come out at this mid term election. The sentence is not that far from the maximum sentence of six months. Um. The judge gave him a little

bit of credit. Um, Okay. There's a lot of questions about where he was gonna go, and now I'm reading it will be at a low security lock up. What's his life going to be like? Uh, well, it's Um, I I don't know the federal prisons that well, but these low security lock ups tend not to be that bad. They tend to be here with white collar criminals, it's um, you know, dormitories and you might not book it for a hotel, but it's not awful. So he's not going to be like in you know, in in in the

Alcatraz style prison. We're all this prison. He'll be like with insider traders and people who concocting scheme. Uh. Sorry, the subpoena goes to Donald Trump. That's just a formality, right. Did we were these dates known beforehand? I mean, is there any chance he testifies on the fourte um The date weren't known beforehand, he says, or people close to him have him saying that, oh he would love to testify, um,

you know, and wants to do so publicly. Most people think his lawyers would tell him not to testify because if he says something untruthful, then you know, he would be Um, he could be prosecuted under the law for a false statement. Well, so okay, so there you go. After what we saw today with Steve Bannon, the House could vote on whether to make a criminal referral as you report two Attorney General Merrick Ireland. Uh, a former president is a lot different than Steve Bannon. Is there

any chance of that happening? Uh? You know, the House could vote after November four to make a criminal referral. But but he could also, you know, try to get a court order and fight the subpoena on grounds of executive privilege or something thing else and drag this on and then lo and behold, we'd be onto the next Congress. So there's a good chance in reality he could drag it on until it's kind of a mood issue. Okay,

so that's the strategy. Then, right, you just let this, Uh you let this kind of bleed out for the rest of the year, assuming Republicans take the House and they do plan. Kevin McCarthy has planned to dissolve this committee all along, right if he has a chance to do it. Yeah, And even if he doesn't, he would get a chance to appoint the members of the committee, and the once McCarthy points might not be as insistent. I appreciate the insights as always, Mike Dorning, have a

great weekend, Like thanks for being here. Bloomberg Politics reporter with us on Bloomberg Sound On, see what the panel thinks about this quickly. Rick Davis and Jeannie Schanzano are here Bloomberg Politics contributors. Jennie, does this change anything in in sort of the broader January six case to see Steve Banning go to jail or does it just enable

him to have more fun when he gets out. You know, from the looks of it, when he came out afterwards, he did not seem deterred at all, if that was the judges intend talking about deterrence, and he seemed ready to go and fundraise. You know, the judge gave him time obviously on this appeal. He's not going to go to jail. So I don't think it's going to change anything.

And certainly the president, the former president, is going to be able to say he's got executive privilege that Steve Bannon never had that And so we're not going to see anything out of the subpoena with Trump except for the opportunity for the committee to say in the report that they gave him an opportunity to respond. That's really what this is about. Okay, got we you heard Steve Bannon going in and like one person yelling trade or whatever.

Listen to the craziness when he came out. Here's Steve Bannon again, November eight, there's gonna have judgment on the illegitimate Biden regime, and quite frankly, and quite frankly, the Nancy Pelosi and the entire committee. And we know which way that's going. Either they've already been turfed out like Liz Cheney, right or if quit Kinzinger and all the Democrats,

or they're about to be beaten like Lauria and others. Okay, so his name checking politicians here, Rick Davis, who he thinks you know, will be will be brought down on judgment day. Of course, Adam Kinzinger has already you know, made up his own mind. But framing November eight as judgment day, he probably sees it as worth going through

this to boost turnout or passion ahead of the election. Right, Well, it certainly he sees worth going through as long as his appeal works and he doesn't have to spend four months in prison. So I would say nobody looks forward to that was laid off to political activism. It's not like he couldn't go stand in front of a bunch of you know, radio and TV cameras and say the

same thing and get the same reaction. I would say that nobody would have probably taken him alive like they did today and actually honor this kind of diet tribe. But the bottom line is that he's gonna try and take credit for election wins that Republicans have in the House, and to some degree, you know, he'll be emboldened by that. Does he win the appeal? Is that a real case? Uh? I wouldn't know how to handicap that, but I wouldn't

count him. Op standby Rick and Jeanie our panel. They're back in just a moment as we turn to the latest forecast, the mid term forecasts from President Biden. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. It's impressive to

read on the terminal. The US budget deficit saw a record drop in the fistical year, second straight annual drop that for the fiscal year through September narrowed to one point for trillion from a revised two point seven eight trillion the previous year, and President Biden wanted to tell people about it today. That's idea that his plans are coming together to lower the deficit. And that's even after the treasure reaccounted for this move to forgive student loan debt.

And the President says, boy, with the mid terms in mind, and that was, you know, part of the design of this event. If Republicans take over, will you know what here? He is, Republicans in Congress are doubling down on a commitment to explode the deficit again just this week. It's hard to make this stuff up. Just this week, republic leader said if they get their way, they're going to extend the tax the Trump tax cuts were doing to expire in a couple of years. Extend them. They said,

they'll repeal the corporate minimum tax. Of just that I just signed a law fifteen. He can't believe that this message is not taking hold, as Republicans are of course expected to win the House in this high inflationary environment, with so many things to talk about here, and it just reminds me thinking of Joe Biden today at the podium, like you know, I live the deficit, and still reminds

me of that classic scene on Saturday Night Live. Remember Governor Ducaucus Rebuttal, I can't believe I'm losing to this guy. And here we are in two Rick Davis and Genie Shanzana with us. Is it just Rick about I mean, should we just give up the ghost on this deficit issue and acknowledge publicly that nobody cares about it? You know, I think voters do care about it. I think it's it's it's difficult for candidates and members of Congress administration

personnel to articulate it. Well, um, we've seen it play heavily in past elections. Ronald Reagan got elected on it. That was a long time ago. That was a long time ago. But that's also when parties actually had a difference of opinion on federal debt. Now it's basically everyone's

a big spender, Republican race or mojo on it. I mean, it's not it's it's not shocking, but it's shocking to me that you have a Democratic president talking about how much better the Democratic Party is in the Replican Party on debt. Really reality, really particularly good, that's true, And it's always the minority gets religion on on deficits, right with you know, when they have no say in spending, Genie.

But we don't really hear Republicans talk about it. There is a small contingent of Republicans who have talked about this. Put to your point, it's usually when they're out of power that they talk about it, and they blame it on the party in power. And we've heard that, you

know a little bit throughout the Biden administration. But you know, I think that Joe Biden is actually making a case that Democrats need to make more, which is, don't compare me to some mythical godlike figure, compare me to who we're actually running against. There's a choice here, and that choice he's gonna say is either Republicans who will cut Social Security benefits, increase the deficit, you know, and corporate

of all those things, or there's or there's us. And I may not be perfect, but I'm better than the alternative.

And I think this is something that Democrats have got to keep saying, because the reality is the President did sign a good number of bills this summer, much more than people thought e would, and the pol seas, for the most part, are supported by at least small majorities of Americans and many it doesn't need to connect the dots to inflation, though, explain at least that this is about, you know, helping to lower prices here that in the end,

a lower deficit will do. Otherwise, he's helping to elect Republicans. Rick says, Look, they're gonna extend the taxes. Well, great, we'll all vote Republican. Then it is arguable that this year Joe Biden has been the greatest weapon for the Republican Party that there is. Look, I mean, the same day that he is touting his prowess as a deficit cutter, he adds five hundred billion dollars to the deficit by

doing the student loan program. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense that you do one thing and then do exactly the opposite, all in the same press conference. Uh well, yeah, a couple. And there were two events today. Early he was talking about the mid terms, Genie and you know, who needs the cook political report when you've got the President of the United States. Know, the new forecast is out from five thirty eight. Joe Biden is asked in an event that was to point about student

loan debt forgiveness. He was asked about his expectations for the mid term elections, having seen you know, the whole story we've talked about at Democratic momentum slowing and the thought that maybe Democrats peaked a little too early here to actually hold the House or or maybe even keep the Senate in the mid terms. Here's the president. The polls have been all over the place. I think that we're gonna see one more shift back to our side

the closing days. And let me tell you why. I think that we're starting to see some of the good news on the economy. Gas prices are down sharply in forty six of the fifty states. Because of what I've been doing, We're moving in the right direction. There's more to come. State unemployment today, State unemployment it's all time lows in eleven states, and seventeen states have unemployment rates under three Genie. None of those factors have seemed to

matter until now. Why would they in the next two weeks. You know, it's shocking to hear the president and say he thinks they're going to come back, um, you know, and not to trust the polls and things are getting better. You know, Joe Biden has got to make that case.

I think he's trying to make it. To your point, on the economic issue, it is not resonating in the polls, and that's why I think he really does have to do more about what he said today, which is to focus on the winds he did get, and to talk about how inflation, to Nancy Pelosi's point the other day, is a global problem and by comparison, we are doing better. He's got to be empathetic with all of us because we're feeling the you know, the difficulty, the economic hardship

that is out there. So they've got to be empathetic. But they've also got to make the case that they're on the right track and it's going to take time. I don't know if it's going to work. I'm not as confident as Joe Biden that it's going to work in a few weeks. But that's the case that they have to make. Is it just the president's job to say that Rick or his political advisers telling him that, yeah, to steal a British phrase it probably is being overused

in London right now. Is he's got to keep that stiff upper lip right. I mean, he's got to be the chief campaigner and office also and and so sure he's trying to sell he's trying to sell a big push at the end. But you know, as you described, I mean, you know, the polls are not just changing, they're collapsing for Democrats in a lot of different places around the country. And the odds now of the Republicans take control of both chambers have increased dramatically since a

month ago. So you know it, overturning that momentum is going to be hard to do without some big action forcing event, some October surprise, and right now there there doesn't seem to be a surprise. It's in the works. There's been a lot of questions about why we didn't get the full court press on student loan debt forgiveness from this administration, why they've really only been passing references to it from the President and some of his recent speeches.

But today was the day a big formal event about this. And listen to the way he framed the argument against those who have criticized this, largely Republicans and his name, checking them as being unfair. Here's Joe Biden. Marjorie Taylor agreed, she got over she and her husband got a hundred eighty thousand dollars in business loans forgiven from the p p P program. She said, it's completely unfair for us to forgive student loans for working in middle class Americans.

Representative Vernu Canon of Florida said, our plan was reckless. Guess how much he got in that program forgiven two million, three hundred thousand dollars. Listen to the crowd of joke. Okay, so how come he hasn't been doing that all along, Jennie, He should be doing that. It is, you know, using the old hypocrite model, and it it can be effective, you know. I don't think, however, it changes the reality

of this student loan forgiveness plan. And the fact is the plan does very little to address the bottom line issue on why colleges and universities are so expensive, and in fact, it may make the situation worse. And we've already seen that it's been scaled back over the last few weeks and will continue to be so. So I think the pol see itself is problematic, but the President is going to go out and tout it because it's a big part of his efforts to reach a certain constituency.

Would you help the president frame the argument that way, Rick, Is that is that really? I mean, look, we're those are the very people who are trying to to to to attack the president on this plan. Yeah. I think at some point the President's got to focus on, like what is the broad message and not sort of pick off individual members and their their conduct on this kind of stuff. It feels good, but it doesn't really help the broader party to try and win elections across the board.

Uh So, I I think the one thing this administration just hasn't gotten a grip on is inflation and the economy, and and that is the number one thing that people are saying they're going to vote on this year, and they still don't have a message around it. I mean, with all due respect student loan forgiveness, even if it's big, and it's it's it's glitzy, and you're putting an incredible

amount of you know, uh, debt to work. Uh You're you're not really talking about the hope streams and aspirations of voters as they're going to vote in this election. So until he gets with the inflation and the economy, he's not talking to voters about the things that care about. Well, you know at the beginning of next week, when when next week dawns, we're gonna be talking about two weeks to election day, which gives me the sweats a little bit.

But beyond that, uh two weeks left. You know, the president's going this weekend, Jennie, tell beach, tell me Joe Matthew to the beach, to Rome. I mean, is that exactly where he should be? You know, this is not a president who we've talked about who has gone out and and done big rallies. Are those kinds of things they just simply don't work for Joe Biden. And I would just say that, you know, they didn't work so well again for Barack Obama or Donald Trump and their midterms. Either.

The reality is this has very little to do with Joe Biden. This is how midterm elections work in the United States. So I'm not sure him going around the country where he's not wanted and potentially could do more damage would be a good plan either. How about you, Rick, would you tell him to do exactly that? Uh? Stay at home? Sure? Uh Look, I mean these candidates don't want to nationalize this race, because if they do, they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna get worse, not better. So

the local localization. You know, how do I become if I'm running for governor or mayor, uh, the local guy to talk about the local issues. That's the winner issue voice from the expert Rick Davis and our expert analysis from Genie chantay O. Great conversation, thanks to both of you Bloomberg Politics contributors. Next week the big debate Dr Roz, Jon Fetterman, that's Tuesday. You know we'll have it here. I'm Joe Matthew. Have a great weekend. This is Bloomberg