Sound On: Establishment Dems Win, 10K Student Debt Nixed (Radio)

within his own caucus, but also in the country. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The US pledges billions more in weapons for Ukraine as the war reaches the six month mark. Today, welcome to the fastest hour in politics. As the Pentagon and NATO doubled down on the war effort, just as fighting begins to intensify once again. Retired Navy Admiral James Debritis will join us on the strategy for Ukraine and how long this could last.

President Biden makes good on his promise to forgive some student loans. The planning just announced that goes a lot further than that. We'll get details from Bloomberg. White House reporter Nancy Cook, who helped to break the story. Analysis from our signature panel this day after another primary night, Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis are with us for the hour, and we start things off. President Biden today announcing the US will send Ukraine it's largest

weapons package to date. It's almost three billion dollars in surface to air missiles, mortar rounds, radar systems, drones. The announcement delivered in writing coinciding with Ukrainian Independence Day ceremonies in the capital of Keys. To sound from a replaying by President Zelenski and the First Lady of Ukraine as the nation marks thirty one years of independence from the Soviet Union. Here's Zelensky in a news conference earlier today

with translation, and the civilized world is supporting us. We are not afraid of the Russian Federation, he says, six months in, but more intense fighting is coming, and we're joined to talk about what is next. By retired Navy Admiral, former NATO Allied Supreme Commander James Sturbridus, now Bloomberg contributor and Vice chair of the Carlisle Group, author of the book To Risk it all, Admiral, welcome back to the program.

Could be with you, Joe. Now that we've reached the six month mark in this conflict, there's a huge sense of accomplishment in Ukraine in here in the US, because well, nobody predicted Ukraine stay in the fight for this long. We got it through six months. It's kind of remarkable. But then, Admiral, the sobering realization follows that this will not end anytime soon. How long can Ukraine keep this going? Oh? I think indefinitely. Um, this is turning into a stalemate.

I think a pretty good model, frankly is the Korean War. Um. North and South Korea is still in a state of war. Technically, occasional military operations go back and forth, both nations jockeying on the world stage. UM. I think this one has every possibility of going on for a lengthy period of time. And that's the worst news for Vladimir Putin because over time he'll continue to be outside the global economy and it'll it'll put enormous downward pressure on his economic situation.

The US is announcing another three billion dollars in military aid for Ukraine, and it appears to be coming with the promise for plenty more UH as needed here. But it's been interesting to hear the administration's language around this and and even that from NATO suggesting that some of the arms that we're sending right now are not for the imminent battle but for months down the road. Are we still giving Ukraine what it needs? We are, Joe, and UM, I think the proof is in the putting.

The results show that we are. We've stopped the Russian advance effectively cold. Um, They're not going to be able to roll over the entire country as they wanted. Um. They're going to have to settle at some point for some portion of Ukraine. And that's um, you know, still to be determined whether the Russians will even get that much. So, UM, we're sending the right weapons. And I'll make two quick points. One is, Yep, we've added three billion dollars. The total

tab now is north of ten billion. But in the context of what we spent in Iraq and Afghanistan, where we spent billions and billions of dollars every week, UM, this is not a huge amount of money. And we can continue to do this, and we ought to continue to do this, and The second quick point is back to the question you as a moment ago, UM, I

think the uh. The polling in the United States shows UH strong majority of Americans support this and understand why we need to stop Vladimir Putin, which is going to be pretty important a few months down the road, especially if we're still talking about elevated energy prices, the winter

heating season and so forth. We heard from the administration today on Bloomberg Amanda Slout as Senior Director for European Affairs on the National Security Council, with a clear expressing a clear expectation, if not concern, about much more concerted fighting in the weeks ahead. Admiral listen to what she says. Well, have you respond? I would expect that we will begin to see an escalation of the fighting again. Everybody is

obviously very conscious of of winter coming up. The muddy season starts in in midfall, UH, and so there is going to be a desire by both sides to make as much progress on the ground as they can before we move into the winter months. It's anonymous line, winter is coming. Admiral Stefrida's what is Ukraine need to do now to get ready? Um? First and foremost, take the weapons systems that are flowing so freely. We've talked about the US contributions, there are equally enormous levels of resources

coming from our European colleagues and NATO. Number Two, they need to go on the offensive in and around Cure soon, which is a major city gateway to Crimea. By doing that they'll draw troops away from Putin's main military effort up in the Don Beast, so offensive operations. And number three, the Ukrainians need to continue. They're actually quite remarkable abilities to reach behind the front lines and take out Russian logistics, sinking the Black Sea flagship, knocking down dozens of aircraft

on a base in Crimea. Um, the Ukrainians are showing a great deal of creativity and war that's often a key to victory. You're a sailor, of course, Admiral of the concern about keeping the Black Sea open and secure remains a major one. Are we outfitting Ukraine with the weapons it needs to continue, keeping ports open if that's even possible through the winter, or simply attacking Russian vessels

in the water. And I ask you that now against this backdrop of President Zelenski claiming that they want to take Crimea back at the war will end in Crimea. Yes, I've been following President Zelenski's commentary. I think both sides are going to create very high levels of expectation in their rhetoric. We'll see where it all lands once negotiations occur. But you're right to point at the importance of the sea and all of this. Here's some good news for

a change. Um, the Turks negotiated agreement between the Russians and the Ukrainians to export grain. That's working well. Dozens of ships have left, more coming in that will help the Ukrainian economy. It'll keep the major port of Odessa busy and open. It will keep a route through the mine fields that have been laid in the Black Sea by the Ukrainians to protect their shores. So that's going well.

And finally, yes, we should be giving the Ukrainians the ability to reach out and touch the Russian Black Sea fleet as they did so successfully and sinking the Muska the flagship a couple of months ago. War fair or is that ship to ship warfare or something I'm not thinking of. It is using shore based cruise missiles that can reach out to see and they have to be given direction and targeting by drones. So it's a combination.

Ukraine does not have the naval forces to go toe to toe with the Black Sea Fleet, but they can hurt them badly from the shore using drones for targeting and long range cruise missiles. You said just last week that Russia is pushing the world to the edge of a potential nuclear crisis. We're watching what's happening in this ongoing Russian occupation of Europe's largest nuclear power plant in Ukraine. This doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon,

as it leverage for Vladimir Putin. What's he trying to do? He has three goals in occupying that nuclear power plant. Number one is simply to deprive the Ukrainians of about twenty of their electricity, which comes from that Zapparzia nuclear power plant. Number two, Putin is kind of trying to scare the Europeans. He's sort of waiving the Chernobyl scenario at the Europeans. I think it's highly unlikely he's going to go in that direction because prevailing winds will deposit

radioactivity on his shores. As well. And thirdly, Putin believes that because it's a nuclear site, Ukrainians won't attack it in force, and as a result he can use it as a kind of mini sanctuary for his forces. It's very strict magically located near that city of cure San that I mentioned a moment ago. Does this war ends in some sort of fade out of attrition as opposed to a climactic decisive when I presume you still think on behalf of Ukraine, um, I think it ends with

a negotiation and armistice agreed to by both parties. Whether that's six months from now or six years from now, I think is hard to predict. But certainly for the next six months you're gonna see both sides maneuvering, trying to gain as much territory as they can, because both sides are burning through resources. On Putin's side, too many killed in action, wounded, seventy eight thousand, too much equipment destroyed.

His burn rate is terrible. And on the other side, we mentioned it earlier, the patients of the West, the support for the weapons going to the Ukrainians, both of those are dwindling resources. Six months from now, I think both sides will be looking for a negotiating table. Well, you just said something, Uh, you just said something very interesting. As a professional warrior, you're looking at this and allowing for up to six years. You said this could be

six months or six years. Is that really what America needs to brace war? I think that again, let's look at the Korean War that's been going on since then. What I don't think we're going to see is massive levels of combat. This is going to dwindle down to a kind of a stalemate of frozen conflict is the term that sometimes used. They'll be flare ups here and there, but I think that it is more likely we'll get

to a negotiation sooner rather than later. My point in mentioning a six year um and pointing to the Korean War is simply that war is unpredictable. Retired Navy Admiral currently vice chair at the Carlisle Group James his new book, To Risk It All, Nine Conflicts and the Crucible of Decision. It's our pleasure as always, Admiral, stay in touch with us on Bloomberg. Thanks so much. Always, will assemble the panel next. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. Sound on

on Bloomberg Radio. So another three billion dollars in weapons for Ukraine. That's just from the U S alone. But it's not all on the way yet. It's not on a plane or shift right now. It's great information on the terminal from our Pentagon team. You're not gonna hear this anywhere else unless you watch news briefings all day. The Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, Colin Call, you've heard him on this program, said this to reporters at

the Pentagon. The new aid is aimed at a year from now, two years from now, to dissuade Vladimir Putin from the notion that he can wait. Everybody out, Let's assemble the panel with us Rick Davis, Jeanie Schanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors on this six month and Independence Day, both coinciding for Ukraine. Rick, as I reading this story and it's a very important part of this package. Six additional national advanced surface to air missile systems have yet to

even be put under contract and produced. These are made by Raytheon. So or are we signaling our intentions to be there two years from now or are we actually buying this stuff? You know there has been a concerted effort by the administration to start broadcasting a comfort level with the idea that this conflict is gonna last a

long time. And so I think this messaging around the three billion dollar package, you know, here are the kinds of things we're gonna send that will help build the defense infrastructure of the country, not just fight the war.

So you know, these these items you just mentioned that Nasam's um you know, their air defense package, so they would go around you know, a capital city or somewhere like that, uh and the Washington to protect exactly, especially with unmanned attacks, and so there are other kinds of systems that go after jets. And so you know, you can see the narrative building around this administration, which is like, hey, we're in it for the long haul, you know. So this knows so much about a war that drags on

two years. Rick, this is for building a post war military, is that what you're saying, Yeah, this is this is to give the tools to the Ukrainians to really satisfy their security needs long term. Three billion dollars is a lot of money, Genie. In two years is a long period of time. How many Americans do you think are are aware of this, and does the White House need

to be doing a better job telegraphing that. I mean, most people were not at the Undersecretary's briefing, that's right, And you know, Zelinski himself has been saying in the last couple of days exactly what you are saying is the concern is that people across the world, not just in the United States, forget about the plight of Ukraine and as this drags out. This is what Putin has been banking on too, the Biden administration's point that Americans and the West to simply don't have the stamina to

stay in this. So that's why this you know, two three billion today is so important because it suggests, along with Boris Johnson's surprise visit to Kiev, that there is international and Western support there. The challenges, of course, it's been thirteen billion dollars total, and that has to sustain over a long period. I'm not saying the money, although it does, but the support, and that's going to be very important to your point that they message this appropriately.

And again, there can be issues that crop up that we don't imagine at this moment that will diminish support in a big way. I'm glad you mentioned Boris Johnson. Well, you never know who is going to show up and keep you at all friends. I simply say this, we must keep going. We must shore as friends of Ukraine that we have the same strategic indurance as the people

of Ukraine. Almost missed him. Then you Uh showed up there leave unannounced at least publicly to take part in the ceremonies today and they held a joint news conference. Who else needs to show up there, Rick, I mean Joe Biden, I'm assuming is not going to keep anytime soon. But we've been talking a lot more about visiting Taiwan than we have Ukraine lately. Yeah, And and that's disappointing because I think it was great of Johnson to go

on Independence Day. We've heard all kinds of reports about what kind of initiatives the Russians we're gonna try and take. Everyone was worried that there'd be active shelling and Kiev we actually suggested to get the us UH citizens out of the country. Um So the fact that he was willing to do that, he gets the profile and courage

award for the day. But I do think it's important to keep up the public diplomacy in support of of Ukraine, and I think really important as we get in toward this G twenty meeting in November, where Vladimir vibra Putin is is actually playing to a ten and so what kind of pressure can we put on how do we heighten the visibility you know, of Zelenski and the activities in Ukraine in advance of him coming out of his hole and and trying to act as if, you know,

there's nothing wrong. What if Joe Biden did show up in Kiev, Jennie, Is that good politics right now? What if that was your sort of October surprise out of the mid terms or is it foolish? You know, I was wondering if he might do that just before the mid terms. Um, But I think the danger there is

it would look like it was driven by politics. And I think for Joe Biden and so many other American public officials, not just in his administration, but bipartisan, this is something that they see a sort of above politics, if there can be such a thing, or a bipartisan So I think he's got to be careful about the timing. But most important is the issue of security and that's something that we heard when when they were considering him going prior it was not secure for him to go.

And maybe that will change and we will see him there. But I give Johnson a lot of credit for going. It's that kind of spotlight that that needs to be kept on this in order for the public support to sustain itself. Secret Service wouldn't deal with It's still right, Rick, Yeah, you need a lot more Nay Sam's around keep to want to have the President Nited States show up in

the plaza, got it. Yeah, So they actually need to be ordered, by the way, the six I mentioned the prior to that had been promised have still not been ordered yet. So it is an interesting sort of component of this defense that we're well support of the defense program here that we're providing that not a lot of people are talking about. Yen Stoltenberg at NATO today pledging basically unlimited support. You can continue to count on NATO's support for as long as it takes, for as long

as it takes the word from NATO. Rick and Genie stay with us for the hour of course. Our signature panel, I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. Glad you're with us as we turned to the big news from the White House next student loan debt, relief, forgiveness, but also a lot more than the headline is telling you. We'll dig into this with Bloomberg White House reporter Nancy Cook, who helped to break the story. I'm Joe Matthew again. This is Bloomberg.

Thanks for being with us on Bloomberg Sound On. President Biden made the announcement today at the White House. Using the authority Congress granted the Department of Education, we will forgive ten thousand dollars in outstanding federal student loans. In addition, students who come from low income families which allowed them to qualify to receive a pell grant, will have their debt reduced twenty thousand dollars, just as you read in

the story from Bloomberg. White House reporter Nancy Cook out ahead on this yesterday and early today, and she's with us now to pick through some of the details of this plan. Nancy, welcome back to the program. Thanks for having me. Let's start with what this does. Ten thousand dollars that sounds familiar in loan forgiveness for most, twenty thousand for those with pell grants, But there's also a cap on undergrad loan repayments. How does that part work?

So basically, the way that it would work is that you would take um, you know, if you're if you're below the one thousand, so if you make less than a d dollars a year, it would cap your monthly payments at five percent of your income. And that's a huge thing. I mean, I feel like the ten dollar forgiveness and the dollar forgiveness that's really sort of like

the headline news and what people have been watching. But the Biden administration is also trying to make tweaks to the student loan repayment system going forward beyond just this one time debt kid. It would have impact a huge amount of people. Um And and also there's like some nuance there too, like you know, it could affect the student loan forgiveness also applies to people who have parent

plus loans. So if you're a parent, for instance, and you co signed for you know, one of your your kids loans as like a bunch of people do to help them, you know, that loan also counts for loan forgiveness. Like the kid and the parents couldn't both take advantage. But my point is this is actually a big deal and it's something that progressives UM have wanted for a

long time, and they're thrilled with the wind. Some are not, though, and it's been interesting to hear the reaction from from certain politicians, from certain groups like the N double A CP. Joe Biden promised this on the campaign triol and we went back and listened to a couple of his rallies yesterday when people were honking horns back in COVID, you know, the drive ins. He even mentioned the ten thousand dollars at every turn, the hundred and twenty five thousand dollar cap.

So why why criticism from the left. Well, I think that it depends. You know, I've talked to different people on the left. I think some people feel like, you know, the N double A CP, for instance, was really pushing for him to forgive at least fifty thou dollars in student debt. I don't think he was ever going to do that, UM, And so I think it depends who you talked to. Senator Elizabeth Warren, who has been very intimately involved in this discussion. You know, I think it

is really happy with this outcome. You know, UM people feel like progressive that I spoke to feel like they pushed Biden further than he was likely to go. You know, Biden, I feel like, left of his own devices, would have done ten thousand dollars in student debt if if anything, And there's a sense that they moved him on, you know, some of these nuance issues that we already talked about, but also the twenty dollars for pell grant recipients. He's

doing this all on his own through executive action. Exactly does that mean that if another president came in a couple of years from now, they could undo it. Well, the thing is is that the debt cancelation is a one time thing in terms of the cap though, oh sure, right, in terms of the cap, they could make those tweaks. Definitely, that's a great point. Interesting what happens to those loans? Does the government pay them off or do they just vanish?

I think they just vanished, that's something I know country, But I also think that that's why, you know, this is a controversial idea among UM economists. You know, we've been talking about student debt, and I've been covering this for a while, but it is like a pretty new political and economic idea. And I do think you know, if you talk to economists, not the ones who work in the White House, you know there is a sense that people haven't really tried this before, and so we're

not really sure what will happen to the economy. Well, Republicans are already calling out administration for worsening inflation, right, and of course they point to none other than Larry Summers, which they must love, uh and the Biden administration. But he tweeted a couple of days ago you saw this. I hope the administration does not contribute to inflation macro economically by offering unreasonably generous student loan relief or micro

by encouraging college tuition increases. He says, it raises demand and increases inflation. But interesting another tweet, he said, every dollar spent you saw this on student loan relief is a dollar that could have gone to support those without the opportunity to go to college. That sounds like a tweet that Joe Biden thinks about at night. Well, also, Joe Biden speaks to Larry Summers, and Larry Summers speaks to the White House Chief of staff Ron Klain. I

imagine he said these things to them. It's not just Larry Summers who was raising questions. Jason Furman, you know, another top Obama economic official, has been very down on student loan debts. Republicans are I mean, I think the White House decided that this was, you know, a good political thing for them to do ahead of the mid terms. It was a way to excite voters. It was also a campaign promise that they wanted to fulfill. Um. It was a way to deal with some of the generational

wealth gap issues. UM. And I think that we'll have to see what it does the economy. You see the comments on Twitter, Republicans say, there he goes, he's literally buying votes now to do this right before the mid term elections. Does the White House have an answer to that? Is that? Is that part of the talking points? That's not part of the talking points. But isn't that always what political parties do. I mean, Republicans passed a huge tax bill in seventeen Um, you know, before the terms.

You know what I mean? I feel like this is the way Washington. This is the way Washington works. Both parties do it when they're in power. I just congratulate you on the reporting because this has been so long in coming, I mean since before he was in the White House. And if you have a terminal, if you're on Bloomberg dot com, you saw it with Nancy Cook sharing the byline last evening. Thanks for coming back to talk to us. Thanks for having me to We've learned

a couple of things. You know. Look, the President says, by the way, that the deficit reduction from his administration more than covers all of this. But you heard the response from Nancy. They're like, well, the Trump administration did the tax cut since and that's exactly what the reaction has been. Well from the President himself, he was trying to get ahead of this in the speech while announcing the program using the authority Congress granted the Department of Education.

We will forgive. I will never apologize ever helping Americans, working, working, American's mental class, especially not to the same folks who voted for a two trillion dollar tax cut that mainly benefited the wealthiest Americans and the biggest corporations that slowed the economy, didn't do hell uch for economic growth, and wasn't paid for, and racked up this enormous deficit, so the White House can claim a win here to say that the president's making good on a campaign promise, and

even the statement later from the n double a CP was a lot more favorable than it was this time yesterday. We'll see how the panel feels about it. The politics US could be moving on this as we head for the mid terms. Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis will be with us as we also look back on a big primary night New York and Florida. Big night for Nancy Pelosi. I keep hearing, but what about Joe Biden. It's the fastest hour in politics. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. Thanks

for being with us. We'll check traffic and markets on the way. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden makes good on the campaign pledge to relieve student loan debt, the forgiveness plan ten thousand for most twenty dollars and loans for some who received hell grants. By the way, we haven't even mentioned at least I haven't. If you

can forgive me the extension. This is the final extension, the President announcing four more months on the moratorium on student loan repayments. So that gets you through the year. And this is as you may well expect. Well, we've already told you this not playing well on the other side of the aisle. You're gonna satisfy that obligation. You do, you follow through, you work hard to do that. Then all of a sudden, other people don't have to changing the rules of the game in the middle of the game.

Just as not fair. Congressman Dan new House, Republican from Washington, kind of crystallizing what many in the Republican Party think about this. It's a fairness issue, they say, just as well as an economic one. Let's reassemble the panel, Rick Davis and Jeannie Chanzano or whether Genie, you've got your classroom gonna be full of students next week. I assume that this is going to play very well with them.

But do they vote? Uh? They do? Um? We I think we will see a fairly robust turnout in the mid term amongst people under the age of twenty five. But you know, I think for me, I have to say that, you know, this is critically important because of course these students are carrying the largest single debt of

any group of Americans. And the question that I have for the Biden administration is, yes, relief on this, that is fine, But I think they should couple that with addressing the really problematic issue of college affordability, because to me, what's happening here is, you know, something of an upstream parable. They are just addressing what we're seeing as the remnants of a problem without addressing the problem. And the problem has been needed to be addressed for many, many decades.

The actual cost of the damn thing, the the actual cost. And you know, and Republicans are right, I know a lot of people in college. I know a lot of people who chose not to go, who went to more affordable colleges because they couldn't pay back loans from more expensive colleges. People who didn't go and are working in paying taxes to pay for this. They have a right

to be frustrated by this. And that's why not just the Biden of administration, but Congress as a whole should address once and for all the issue of college affordability, not just deal with the remnants of a problem without addressing the root cause. There's the forgiveness component here, Rick, and we saw that coming, but I was kind of blown away. And I think we established with Nancy Cook

a little earlier that you can flip this headline. The cap on loan payments going forward of five percent of of someone's discretionary income is a huge deal. That that impacts any future student loan borrower going forward. How does that play? Is that something that people can Republicans say

that that's a bad idea. Well, sure, I think what they're gonna say is that all of this adds to the national debt um It just took a year for Biden the past the Inflation Reduction Act, which which reduced the national debt by just under three hundred billion dollars. He just added five hundred billion dollars including the extension maybe even more, uh to replace that. I mean, in one fell suit, one move of the pen, A year or a year's amount of work on reducing the debt

has just been wiped out. And he's line that this is more than covered by deficit reduction is not genuine. No, I mean, and and by the way, why have deficit reduction if you're just gonna pilot right back on the next day. I mean, like, this is the thing that's confounding most budget watchers is that that, first of all, this should have been done through an appropriation process, right, Joe Biden. The president is not allowed to make appropriations. Uh,

it's the job of Congress. And so we talked about this last night. Rick. Let's say Donald Trump wins the presidency, it's twenty four he can rescind this executive action and the cap specifically on his first day in office. Yeah, but he can't. He can't claw back the five dollars worth of deficit that just been added back, because wouldn't that be something to Jennie you know, Hey, sorry, you gotta pay it back. We're gonna put this back on your credit card. Yeah. I don't think anybody could claw

it back. But I think an even bigger issue is can Democrats are quite frankly Republicans as well. Once you go down this road, the incentive is you key doing it again. And so you know, it's really really hard to pull this back at all because people borrowing tomorrow. Yes, the cap is there, but they're going to be saying, hey, am I going to be forgiven that first ten thousand dollars. Again, the issue here is the problem of affordability of higher

education in this country. It should be a public good, just like health care. It should not be only for the wealthy or when you get somebody in office who forgives a loan. That's the critical issue that needs to be addressed. And this is all icing around the cake at this point. Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis make up our signature panel here on Bloomberg Sound On. We got through another primary night, and I have to ask you

both about it. We're not going to dig through all these races because it's been a bit of time, but there you know that we talked so much about this race in Manhattan between Jerry Nadler and Carolin Maloney. She lost by a lot. This is a long time Democratic leader on Capitol Hill, two former allies going at it. But while we consider that race, I want to bring you back to the debate that they had when President Biden came up. Because I was told all day today and I read all day to day that this is

a great night for Nancy Pelosi. Nobody said Joe Biden. This was the New York One debate with Nadler Maloney and Pateel. Should President Biden run again in Mr Nadler too early to say, doesn't serve the purpose of Democratic Party too to deal with that until after the mid terms. I don't believe he's running for re election. Okay. That prompted a whole round of stories, forcing her to apologize the next day on CNN. Mr President, I apologize. I

want you to run. I happen to thank you won't be running, but when you run, or if you run, I will be there. You have deserved it. You are a great president. Rick. It just makes me wonder what role, if any Joe Biden is going to play in these mid terms. Now that we're pretty much getting through the primary season, you see what the general is gonna look like. Is he gonna play a role in it? Yeah? His Uh, certainly he'll play a role in the general. I think

his numbers are starting to improve a little bit. I think he had a good legislative session, so I don't think you're gonna be able to keep him out of some of these districts. But I think he has minded his p's and queues, knowing that he was incredibly unpopular in a lot of these districts and and and stayed out of a lot of these primaries. So um, he'll be unleashed. He'll want to see the Democratic tape go over the House and ensure that he has his role

in that. And I suspect they'll have him in states campaigning for Senate candidates if they think his numbers warrant it. Um. You know, his popularity has been ephemeral. It's gone up and down. Uh, he's having a good month, but I think things like this student loan forgiveness can put him right back in the box because all those people who liked what he was doing on deficit reduction are going

to be grossly disappointed today. You might remember, Genie, when we had John Fetterman on the lieutenant governor Pennsylvania is running against Dr Roz for Senate. Now, we asked him, you know how about Joe Biden. He said, I would be proud to have Joe Biden campaigned for me here in Pennsylvania. So it depends on the race. It depends on the state. Yeah, it does. And we shouldn't forget that. Poor Caroline mcloni. She had a bad night last night, but she did that not once, but she did it twice.

She also did it with the New York Times editorial board, and so, you know, I don't think it's ever good politics to say that the president of your party either should not run or should not campaign with you. It does you no good, particularly when you're facing a primary. And it made little sense from the beginning for her to say that, And of course it was turned out to a large extent that really got her last night.

And she is now, of course talking about issues of sexism, which are themselves real, and so I think we're going to hear a lot more from her on that going forward. You know, you probably saw the back and forth between Fetterman and dr Oz. I have to ask you about this just while we're still here, because it's it's kind of amazing the fact that this even took place. This brings us back to Wagner's rights and the crew. Detay thought, there's a grocery shopping. I'm at weg nurse and my

wife was some vegetables. Dr Ozzie went there shopping. He's getting the vegetables for the so called crewe to day, they hit him for that. John Fetterman says, we call that a veggie platter in Pennsylvania. Uh, no, tequila and crete and uh, then it's not Wagner's, it's Wegman's. Veggie

trey was the term. So Dr Oz doubles down. Did you see the statement that that he said, if if John Fetterman had ever eaten a vegetable in his life, then maybe he would have had a Maybe he would not have had a major stroke and would not be in the position of having to lie about it constantly. The Fetterman campaign was quick to right back and call him out for insensitivity. Uh is this fair game, Rick,

when you're talking about a candidate's health on the campaign trail. Yeah, I would think the doctor in doctor Oz would have understood the caution about lecturing people about their diets and and and what causes strokes. So I thought that was insensitive. I was really enjoying the crewe tote battle though, I mean that was actually starting to have a lot of fun. But I think one of the things Dr Os has to start worrying about is if Fetterman gets him into

this tat on on memes, he's gonna lose that race. Uh. He needs to be talking about inflation, He needs to be talking about, you know, what are the bread and butter issues for American families, and talking about CREWD totas and Fetterman stroke and things like that are not going to get in votes. And so this is a sign of an undisciplined UH candidate who has never run for office before, and it makes me worry that he's missing the big picture here. Jennie Fetterman's replies statement said, I

had a stroke. I survived it. I know politics can be nasty, but even then, I could never imagine Reddy kuling someone for their health challenges. Is this a loss for Dr oz Oh, it certainly is. I mean you can just feel him struggling to catch up and struggling to get, you know, to kind of play around with these issues and memes and online, you know, back and forth. It wasn't just the Crew to te it was also the number of houses. And he's been sort of trapped

by this. And to Rick's point, what he should be talking about is something that does appeal to voters in Pennsylvania. That is inflation, that is gas prices, that is Joe Biden. I mean, you can go through the list he's gotten. They've gotten him off track and he needs to get back on track. Genie and Rick. Great conversation our panel here on Bloomberg Sound On. You can hear us every night on Bloomberg Radio five, Pete M. Washington Time. If he showed up late, subscribe to the podcast. You can

hear us that way too. I'm Joe, Matthew, and Washington will meet you back here tomorrow on the fastest tour in politics. This is Bloomberg