Sound On: Dems Keep Senate Control, Biden in Bali

right course for the China U S relationship. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Democrats keep the Senates and still no call on the House. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, as we dissect the deciding Senate race with the Dean of Nevada Politics, John Ralston of the Nevada Independent, keeping an eye on votes still being counted out West and laid or. The meeting of the minds today in Bali will be joined by Kurt Tong,

former U S Ambassador for Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation. On what President's Biden and she accomplished today, If anything, we cover it all with our signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Gen Chanzano where this for the hour.

Still no call on which party controls the U. S. House on this Monday, but Republicans are awfully closed six seats away from the two eight team needed to control the Chamber, and Congresswoman for Millagaya Paul, the Democrat from California, chairs the progressive caucus in the House, says Democrats still have a path. We have still a slim path to keeping the House. I recognize as slim, but it's still possible. There is no question that this will be the most

progressive Democratic caucus in decades. So you're saying there's a chance. We'll talk a little bit later more specifically about this. Democrats would have to run the table, which again could happen with a lot of votes left account in California especially, We could be talking about this still this time next week. Yeah. It was one week ago tonight, no tomorrow, that Kevin McCarthy declared victory and we're still actually not there yet. Different story, of course, in the Senate was big news

over the weekend. First they got Arizona Mark Kelly the race call the Senator will keep his job. It can be tempting to remain focused on the things that divide us, but we've seen the consequences that calm when leaders refused to accept the truth and focus more on conspiracies of the past than solving the challenges that we face today. Beats Republican Blake Masters, who I believe has no plans

to concede, at least not yet. While in Nevada, the senator said to be the most vulnerable Democrat in the country, Catherine Cortez Masto, gets it done. This election. Nevaden's rejected the far right politicians working to divide us, eating Adam laxalt who again pretty sure has not conceded. Let's bring it, John roused to the CEO of the Nevada Independent. John's a journalist and an executive at the Nevada Independent, also the dean of Nevada Political Journalists and back with us.

He was here last week and we promised we get back together to read through some of the the leaves here. John, welcome back to Bloomberg. Nice So as Adam Laxalts called you to concede, yet he has not called me, nor is he called Catherine Cordez mask don nor has he put out any public statements, and it's about I don't know, it's all the time runs together for me, Joe, but I think it's about a one and a half days since the race was called, suggesting he may never concede.

I'm not sure about that. I think he wants to do something else. My guest, because it's ally potentially has done is run for office, and so my guest as he wants to run for something, So I doubt will keep this up that long. Well, as you look back here on the last couple of days in some of the analysis that we've heard, nobody's deeper into these uh,

these districts than you are. When you when you look at the people who actually voted, and why did this have more to do with you know, quote unquote saving democracy as the president likes to say, or was this actually about policy? Were people talking about the accomplishments of democrats?

Or or was it neither of those? Well, when races are relatively close, and the major ones in Nevada were closed, it's hard to single out one factor, and you can try to parse it with exit polling or friends, but the bottom line is is that in the US Senate race, which is very close. Catherine cortest Master did point out that anim lacks all this an election deny in some of the down ballot races that were also very close for constitutional offices. Uh, the Democrats did point out that

there were elections den i ares running against them. Um, you know the governor's race here, which is the only really feather on the Republican Party's camp this time. Uh, it was more a case of a governor hobbled by COVID and and and uh hangover as I call it, with the economy that really cost him that race. I think there were some other factors too, But I just think that you know, when people like me try to pick apart these races, that it's just very difficult to

tell that there's only a few thousand votes. So ticket splitting them was a big part of the story. In Nevada. I think ticket splutters were a big part of the story. I thought there would be, uh Cortes Masso Lombardo, Joe Lombardo, Republican candidate for governor. Voters that seems to have been born out. We're doing on a at the Nevada Independent. We're doing a story about that. We're interviewing people who split their tickets, and I it was a real phenomenon

near the top of the ticket. And I think I don't know if you heard from Chuck Schumer over the weekend, but he spoke shortly after the Arizona and Nevada races were called. He said there were three reasons why Democrats maintained their majority in the Senate. Here he is one, our terrific candidates. Two A the our agenda and our accomplishments. And three the American people rejected the anti democratic extremist MAGA Republicans. Do you buy Chuck Schumer's version of this election?

John Well? The first thing he said was certainly true in Nevada. And it's really one of those old political cliches that people say, and it's not always true, but it is in this case. Candidates matter, Campaigns matter. Catherine Cortez Masco's campaign was far superior to Adam Laxas, and it needed to be in a year in which the Democrats we're facing really really tough headwinds. She did everything that she needed to do to make sure that she

kid get over the top. She barely did it. What's the status of the Republican Party in Nevada coming out of this election? The Republican Party in Nevada has been uh, somewhat of a joke for probably a decade and a half, and that the only reason that that Republicans win in this state is if they have a great campaign team and they run a near flawless campaign because the Democrats

have so many institutional and infrastructure advantages. So you know, when you see people going to Republican Party going out there and bragging about winning races for lieutenant governor and controller, which are two of the most useless state offices, you know that they're they're in a bad shape. Yeah. I didn't think we'd be talking about the controller position in this interview. Maybe we'll bring him back and do that. John Ralston, thank you, CEO of the Nevada Independent. Getting

things started in our Monday edition. Here looking back on Nevada and Arizona, we assemble our panel. Jeanie Schanz know when Rick Davis are both back with us Bloomberg Politics contributors having survived election week, although I guess election week

never actually ended. Genie, Uh, what's the takeaway from states like Nevada, where we were told candidates like Katherine Cortez Masta were about to be fired because they were vulnerable, their stories were not resonating, and the president was dragging them down. Well, well, what it suggests, and and again the the win is by about six thousand, so extremely close, and it's notable that he has not conceded yet. But um, what it suggests is that candidates matter, the issue of

denialism matters. Democracy was on the ballot, and that extremism was able to overcome the negatives for Democrats on the economy and inflation, which was very, very real. And so it ended up not being necessarily a referendum on Biden as much as a referendum on the Republican Party, the Trump wing of the party, and that didn't vote so well for Republicans, although again very very narrowly in the state like Nevada. All the while, Joe Lombardo wins the

race for governor. Here, the Democrat Steve Ceciliac, who got the same rally from Barack Obama that that Cortez Masto got, lost the race. How do we rationalize that? Yeah, I'm not so sure. It's a a referendum on the Republican Party a little bit more of a referendum on Donald Trump.

You know where he left his mark? Uh, it was usually something negative for the candidate, and so I think that helps explain some of what was going on with voters when they they And I think that it's pretty easy to assume that if you were an election denier, you were an election denier because of your fealty to Trump and so being uh, you know, maga supermga mega, maga whatever it is is it was was a real hang up on this election, and that would explain why

in some cases candidates ran away from that and did frankly pretty well. And then those that said, no, no, I'm election denier and I believe everything Donald Trump tells me. H um, you know, fair very poorly. It seems like the postmortem goes easier for Republicans than it does for Democrats, Genie,

isn't it. It's difficult for Democrats to really delineate. You know, Joe Biden will tell you, oh my gosh, you know, we got the we got the the the infrastructure deal, we got the Inflation Reduction Act, we got the burn pits, we got gun control, I'm not sure people were talking about or even aware of a lot of those accomplishments. If you see them as such, Republicans in many cases thought they were policies that moved us in the wrong direction.

What can Joe Biden actually take credit for, Well, he can take credit for getting out there and talking about abortion, talking about extremism, talking about Mega maga as Rick was just talking about. Um, those issues, those are the ones that resonated with voters, because you're right, when it comes to some of the issues foreign policy, crime, inflation, immigration, the border, by and large, voters feel that they can

trust Republicans more than that. And that's what I mean when I say it really ended up being a referendum on the Republican Party that Donald Trump runs, and that's

how many people saw many of these candidates. But again, I think we need to stress a very very narrow victory in some of these states, and they're still counting nineteen House races at this moment, that's right, and and we're going to get to the House in a moment here, Rick, do you remember when the President went to Philadelphia delivered that speech in front of Independence Hall bathed in blood, red lighting It was heavy duty rhetoric, and he was

panned for it as being decisive. Was that, in fact the right speech to give at that moment? Yeah, I mean probably not. Um. I think it's you know, the reaction was so negative at the time, you wonder, you know, did it turn people off? Um? You know, but this has been a study drumbeat since the convention, you know, two years ago the nominated you know, President Biden. This was going to be a theme that the Democrats pushed,

regardless of how much traction it could get. Maybe it did pay off Rick and Jeni or whether us For the hour, We're gonna turn to Arizona next. It's a whole different deck of carves there, and carry Lake is hanging on as we also keep an eye on what's happening in the house. When will we get a call? I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. They

still have not called the governor's race in Arizona. To be clear, the Senate race did go to Mark Kelly, the Democrat, but we're still waiting for a call in the race between Carry Lake, the Republican, the Donald Trump endorsed election denier, and Katie Hobbs, the Democrat who's in fact currently the Secretary of State. Just looking at the numbers of your Hobbs is still ahead by one percentage point. Although carry Lake did a little bit of narrowing earlier.

We expect another dump tonight here. Carry Lake, though doesn't appear prepared to concede this race should she lose it, having accused Maricopa County election workers of slow rolling the count She says it should be election day and on election week. Here we are a week later, and uh boy, just not making a lot of friends with establishment Republicans.

While she's added, of course, remembering, this is the former television news anchor in Phoenix in Arizona calling out what the grandfather, the godfather of politics in Arizona this was, I don't even know what this event was, but with supporters and tweeted out an edited version tweeted out by a guy named Tony Connie who was a deputy campaign director in Arizona for Joe Biden. So this came from a Democrat, but remarkable language. Nonetheless, we don't have any

McCaine Republicans in here, do we all right? Didn't you want to hit the hell out? It was the party of McCaine and it was it was bad boy. Arizona has delivered some losers, haven't they, and then goes on to point out Wendy Rogers, a white nationalist who she calls a hero, uh standing in the crowd. Rick Davis, of course knows a thing or two about Arizona politics.

He's part of our signature panel with Jeanie Schanzano. What's the purpose of insulting John McCain here, Rick, When, oh my gosh, I didn't think you could be a Republican in Arizona without embracing John McCain. Well, there's certainly at least twenty five thousand Republicans in Arizona that identify as McCain Republicans, and that's what she needed to be able to win this election. It looks like so, uh look,

I mean, you know, she she was an outsider. She did not want to uh embrace a movement that's won every election that John McCain never entered, four re elections of the Senate, to presidential primaries, and a congressional election so you know his track records, I think pretty clear. I think his last reelection in sixteen he won by fourteen points. That's just a little more than votes. Um the bear of the party. You know. I scratch my head.

I have the same question. Why in the world would anyone run for office and say they don't want your vote? I mean, it's just like defies logic. She said, get the hell out. I mean if anyone raised their hand at that point, But that is a different campaign strategy for sure. Actually, I'd love to meet the person who to raise her hand, because that's the bravest person in the state of Arizona. No doubt, I'll see myself out. I don't know, Jeannie, look this, there could be a call,

I guess imminently. Here. Are we gonna just delve into an endless legal battle no matter what happens. No, I think she'll just accept defeat gracefully. Why not? No, I think she's going to continue to fight. I mean, this is her brand. If she had nothing to fight against, what would she be out there saying? Because what she's not doing is she's not telling people what she's going to do as governor. She's not asking for their vote. She's just shaming people who she feels don't support her.

And you know, it really gets down to and so many of these races that Republicans have eaten, this case, you know, looks like maybe narrowly lost. It looks like Katie has liked votes ahead of her. It's the choice of these primary candidates, many of them chosen by Donald Trump. And that's what the Republican Party has to contend with.

How do you stop Donald Trump from choosing people who are just you know, going to have fealty to him as opposed to being people who can actually win these elections. And that's the challenge they faced. Whether it's you know, Michigan, whether it's Pennsylvania, whether it's Arizona. You go right down the list, New Hampshire. So that's what the Republican Party has to contend with as they go forward into Then

of course there's Georgia. We're still waiting for Georgia. That's the Senate race, and there's a runoff coming on the sixth of December. You do wonder how invested people like Donald Trump might be having endorsed herschel Walker. If you vote less, I'm gonna vote with me again. But have the people that didn't vote for me need to vote for me because they didn't vote with me, they're gonna

have the government running their life. Rick does does Donald Trump go to Georgia as the as the presidential candidate just to wait in there and make headlines in Georgia? Well, he's done it before. Uh and um, uh, you gotta assume he's gonna do it again. He's looking for relevance in his own party. Uh, there's no question herschel Walker is his candidate, lock Stock and barrel. And so I can't imagine him not insisting. Um, which means he just

flies in there and does it himself. Uh, some presence between now and December six, which is the which is the runoff. So uh, it's it's it's I don't know a single Republican on the national level who thinks that's a good idea. But since when did that bother Donald Trump? Right? Uh? Raphael Warnock, the Democratic Senator of the Incombing Genie, still can't believe this is happen. He's not able to do this work. He's damaged that he has neither the competence

nor the character. He doesn't understand the issues. And what's further is he's demonstrated a lack of interest, yet they're too close to call Genie. Does it matter what Raphael Warnock says over the next three weeks. What's gonna matter is can he get his voters out to the polls again?

Can he pull over some of those vot voters who supported the Libertarian And you know what is really fascinating, as you had Mitch McConnell calling on Brian Kemp to get him to help with getting Herschel Walker quote unquote over the line this time. And so Brian Kemp is doing that. He is giving support to Walker, which he did not do before. So this is going to be a real battle to the end, even though control doesn't

depend on it any longer. That's gonna make Trump want to go just for that reason alone, not letting Briant Kemp take credit for this if it happens. Rick and Jeanie will be here for the hour. We have a lot more to talk about with our signature panel as we turn our attention to geo politics. Next President's Biden

and She together today in Bali. This is Bloomberg. So they met for three hours it actually seemed pleased to see each other when President's Biden and she first met front of the camera's a little handshake and some small talk and then business. We were candid and clear with one another across the board. And I do not think there's any imminent attempt on the part of China to invade Taiwan. I made it clear that we want to see cross trade issues peacefully resolved and uh and so

it never has to come to that. From the news conference in Bali that you saw and heard live on Bloomberg, President Biden feeling pretty good about things coming off the election and now telling our partners in the jeetswey that America is back at the table, and he says they

were honest with each other. We were very blund with one another about places where we disagreed or where we were uncertain of each other's position, and we agreed we'd set up and we did mechanisms whereby we would meet in detail with our key people in each of our administrations to discuss how we could resolve them. Sounds like some progress, but what does this lead to. I want to talk to Kurt Tong about all of the managing

partner at the Asia Group. Former US Consul General in Hong Kong and Macau, former US Ambassador for Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Ambassador, welcome back to Bloomberg. Thank you very much. So, no imminent invasion of Taiwan, an agreement that nuclear weapons should not be used in Ukraine, and what I am interpreting is a general sense of interest in avoiding a cold war or worse between the United States and China. Both presidents seem interested in moving beyond this current standoff.

Did you read it that way? Have the US and China seen the worst of their relationship? Well, I think in the short term at least they they succeeded in their shared mission the two leaders of to use a phrase, putting a floor under the relationship and limiting the short term downside risk that that constant friction over a range of issues, most importantly Taiwan, could lead to a cycle

of deterioration that would lead to outright conflict. So so that that is a mission accomplished by the two of them. So they succeeded in lowering the temperature. If nothing else, well, they lowered the temperature. I think they also succeeded in reaching some shared understandings which existed previously but were reaffirmed on important topics, most importantly Taiwan, where the United States repeated the full mantra of its policy and China did

the same. And that eases the fact that there are in fact red lines intersecting over the Taiwan issue, but there is there are diplomatic positions that each side takes that uses the pressure. There there was a sense that Beijing was accelerating its schedule in reincorporating Taiwan. Do you take President she at his worth, um well, taking him at his word or not? What what I think? The analysis that China had a specific timetable or that timetable

was accelerating is in fact not correct analysis. I think China was becoming increasingly concerned that Taiwan was slipping through its fingers and that Taiwan might at some point declare de facto or de jura independence, thereby forcing from the Chinese perspective, forcing them to act, which is something that I don't feel like China is prepared to do. The best.

Military analysts really questioned the reliability with which China might think that it could take Taiwan back um without great risk of failure, and that I think is really there's there's a lot more caution on all sides than than some of the the media reporting has indicated. We know that China cut off many routine contacts with the US after Speaker Nancy Felosi went to Taiwan, and those contacts

are being re engaged now. For starters, were we in worse shape than you thought at the time, And what happens if these delegations continue to visit Taiwan as have been promised. I think it depends on the nature of the delegation and the degree of the of the steps being taken by Taiwan. Importantly, Taiwan has elections coming up, headed towards the presidential election in about one year, and

so all of these things are potential destabilizers. Potent congressional action, the changes Taiwan's status under US law well now perhaps less likely given the results of the mid term are also a destabilizer. But the stabilizer is fundamentally the shared interests of both nations in avoiding an outright conflict, which

could be a disaster for all concerns. Vladimir Putin is watching this, of course, what will this meeting with Joe Biden do to the She Putin relationship, Well, one could hope that it would chastise Putin and make him realize that that that from China's perspective, it's relationship with the United States is vitally important, even as China values the relationship with Russia. That's what one could hope for. I'm

not optimistic actually, given Vladimir Putin's mindset. Ambassador Kurt Tong, we thank you for the time once again on Bloomberg. Look forward to doing it again. Thank you. Take care. I want to assemble the panel for a quick take on this. Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzano are here. Uh, this seems to be another win in kind of a string for Joe Biden. Is he's riding the momentum in the G twenty Rick, what's the takeaway for him? Yeah,

just think about this. I mean, we're at the Olympics and there's this, you know, significant deal cut between Putin and g to be sort of the access of evil against the rest of the world. We're gonna drive you all out of business, and and and just a few short months, i mean almost one year later. Um, you've got a situation at the G twenty where Putin doesn't even show up because he's so embarrassed and can't face

the rest of the world. And she's sitting down for three hours with the President of States and actually saying nice things. I mean like that is an extraordinary movement of world affairs in one short year. So I can just say, you know, let's hope it stays on this track, because avoiding conflict is the number one issue. That's right. Did Joe Biden buy some time on Taiwan Jini? He absolutely did, And this is a right key point in our US China relations. And he seems to have crossed

that mountain, across that bridge. And good for Joe Biden, Ricky Genie, stay with us our signature panel. Next, Mike Pence breaks his silence. If I can call it that on Donald Trump, this is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The two headlines in the competing newspapers tell the whole story. New York Times Pence says Trump was reckless in assailing him. On January six, Washington Post Pence is slowly arriving critique

of Trump is his party's entire problem. He went for it today, Mike Pence. A lot of people are saying, where have you been. Well, it turns out he's selling a book and sitting for an exclusive interview here with ABC News. I gotta a little peek behind the curtain on this kind of thing. They actually have rules for using this because it airs later tonight, I guess, and I have to follow the rules if I want to use any of it, even though there's this thing called

fair use out there. But there are nine rules, as I read for people playing portions of the interview from ABC News. Hang on, let's get to Mike Pence here. You know, I guess the one that applies to me here the excerpt must be introduced in an exclusive interview with World News tonight anchor David Muir. So I got that all right, so we can play it now. He's

asked about the tweet. David Muir asking Mike Pence about the tweet as he's hiding in the bowels of the Capitol when the President sent the salvo here that Mike Pence did not do what he should have done to protect him in codifying the election. This was clearly you know, this is the big question. He knew was coming here. Maybe it was rehearsed, maybe not, but things got really spent a lot of time thinking about it and gave

his answer that anngered me. But I turned to my daughter who was standing nearby, and I said, it doesn't take courage to break the law. Takes courage to uphold the law. I mean, the present's words were reckless. It's clear he decided to be part of the problem. Mhm. He's done a lot of interviews, the fireside chats, speeches, but this was really the the most he has said about this. Remember the tweet, Mike pat This is the Trump tweet that day, January six, uh pm, at the

worst of the siege. Mike Pence did not have the courage to do what should have been done. Let's reassemble the panel here, Rick and Janie are with us. Like, what's the name of a book? I've had it in front of me. Something very predictable, actually, uh, Rick Davis. Should Mike Pence have said this a year or you willgo So help me God is the name of the book. Thank you, and and so help me God. He should

have said this when it was happening. I mean, the man went on, I mean, the President United States was was under a uh an impeachment order by the House of Representatives, and this guy stayed silent. I mean, he says to his interviewer, it takes courage to obey the law. We're all supposed to obey the law. What courage is that? I mean, I can't figure this one out. I mean, I like Mike Pence. I think he's a good guy, but like, silence is consent. Do you ever hear that?

I mean, and he stayed silent for four years and in two weeks and that was two weeks too long. And I'm any six. Uh you know what, I like to collect books of former UH candidates for office who will never go any further. Oh boy, okay, wow, Rick Davis, what are you feeling that same way about this genie? Well, you know, reckless is quite an understatement. And what are

we engaged in? Mike Pence is one of the first ones out the box in the Invisible Primary, and part of the Invisible Primary for twenty four is to put out the obligatory book. He has done that. He's getting a lot of these interviews um, as you noted this one from ABC as you rightly introduced. Um and you know, so this is what this is and what didn't Mike Pence do? To Rick's point, you know, he waited this

long to say anything. He also didn't testify before the January sixth Committee, the body of Congress designed to get for the American public a fair rendition and a fair you know, historical and repretation of exactly what happened. Maybe he sent them the book. Yeah, I'm sure he will do that. Maybe he'll force them to buy it. But this says, you know, it's it's a little too late. Except this is a political move on his part and

he's out there doing it. Pretty amazing that this would come on the eve of Donald Trump announcing his presidential campaign. As do we all still think this is on He's not He's not gonna waiver now, is he? Rick? Yeah? I would doubt if you'd waiver. Um, he's too embarrassed.

Now take a step back. You know, this is the problem when you get way out in front on something because you think, opportunistically, now is the time to get all the attention and I'm gonna need right before an election and then realize that didn't turn out quite the way I had hoped it had. And so rather than taking a victory lap and announcing my own campaign, Um, you know, he's gonna have a lot of explaining to do. And of course none of this will include talking to reporters. So, um,

he'll have his moment, he'll go off the rails. He'll say things that people scratch her and wonder, how do you get elected president saying that? And of course he did get elected president saying those. He won't be daunted at all hearing from. And of course these are familiar voices on well somewhat certainly Larry Hogan, the the the outgoing Republican governor of Maryland who apparently has his own designs on higher office. Uh. He let him have it on CNN on State of the Union on Sunday morning.

His take on the Trump effect. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. And Donald Trump, he kept saying, and we're gonna be winning so much, we'll get tired of winning. I'm tired of losing. I mean that's all he's done. Tired of losing. Chris Sinnu, the Governor of New Hampshire uh in his diagnosis of what happened in the election with Republican but I think people said was, look, we can work on these policies later, but as Americans, we

gotta fix extremism right now. Ultimately, I think the Democrats did a very good job of of defining a lot of these candidates before they even had a chance to introduce themselves. And when asked on ABC, he said he would not support Donald Trump in four Are these the comments you would expect to hear from these names? Rick? Or is there really something happening in in in a large portion of the Republican Party distancing itself from Trump?

You know, It's just it's amazing to me that here we are two years later after a mid term election that arguably did not meet Republican expectations, and we're still talking about Donald Trump. I mean, you know, and and it's kind of like what Governor Hogan said, how many elections in two thousand eighteen, two thousand two, one, two thousand twenty two do we have to continuously lose and

still talk about Donald Trump? Um? I just think he gets a bye with the party and party leadership, like nobody I've ever seen in modern presidential history still not on Twitter unless something just happened, Jeannie. He's sticking with truth, he says truth social but we're watching Elon Musk of course, refer people to the Republican Party here having bought Twitter, and a lot of people are thinking that might happen. But Ellen is I guess having a hard time as well.

He's fired close to three thousand, seven hundred people since he bought Twitter. He's been threatening bankruptcy, and it sounds like, you know, he's going to be in for it for some time here. He spoke, uh in one of these virtual um summit deals where his face is up on the big screen. You know, he's talking on zoom. He's at home, and he's he's starting to feel the workload. I have too much work on my plate, that is

for sure. I'm really working at the absolute most amount that I can work from morning ful ninth, seven days a week. Um, So, is there's not something I'd recommend? Frankly? Um? Yeah, Genie is he Okay? It was fascinating his face was glowing. It looked like I guess black background. Yeah, like like there was candlelight he's you know, apparently over working. Not only fired those thousands of people, he tried to hire some of them back there lunches for gosh sakes. You know,

it's it's hard to be him. He's wishing like yeah, yeah, so you know, I'm not sure he's all right, but but he's hanging in and um, you know, he still had quite an audience there for this speech, even though he wasn't there in person. But you know, he probably is wishing that he could sell his sandals for two dollars like they got Steep Jobs for maybe someday, but the sandals come with an n f T, which you know,

I'm sure Steve Jobs himself would have laughed at. Uh. It's a great story, by the way, you know, considering this idea of Elon firing and then rehiring or unfiring people somehow the worst ways to fire your staff. I don't know if you guys have ever been fired from a job, but this list is incredible. Uh. And of course there's it's just impossible to beat this guy who ran the company Better do remember this Vishal garg was

his name, the CEO of Better. This is the guy who fired like nine read people on Zoom one day. This was this is the second time in my career I'm doing this and I do not do not want to do this. The last time I did it, I cried hope to be stronger by a worker. But we are laying off about of the company efficiency and performances. If you're on this call, you are part of the unlucky group being laid off. Your employment here is terminated, effective immediately. That was last year, in the throes of

the pandemic. There were four rounds of layoffs, as it turned out. Real popular guy, he's back. By the way, Rick Davis, you work in the business world. You've you've moved from politics mostly into business. Is there actually a wrong way to fire someone? Yeah? I mean look, I mean these companies are part of the community that these

people live in the community. Uh. For every time you have to fire people and maybe downsize, Uh, maybe you hope to be able to build that back up and you don't want to lose that connection with the community. So she Zoom is out. Unless there's a global pandemic. Voicemail anybody can you fire by voicemail? Not voicemail and not text either. Oh, we'll somehow wake up together again. Tomorrow I'll meet you back here. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg