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Welcome to the Tuesday edition of Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Jill Matthew and Washington, where we have nothing but questions about funding the government when this fiscal year ends in just a dozen days. Speaker McCarthy, as we told you trying to sell a stopgap funding measure. We were told there was a deal on this a couple of days
ago to keep things running for about a month. Who's got some members of the Freedom Caucus on his side on this, including Chip Roy, who made the case on a conservative radio show on Fox.
Unfortunately, some of my colleagues don't think that's good enough. They want to hide behind some other rhetoric. They want to hide behind, Oh, we need to do more on DJ or do more on this or that any other. There's no Ukraine supplemental, there's no disaster emergency supplemental. Simply a strong bill that would do what we need to do to ratchet back the federal bureaucracy that's been an odds with the American people and force their hand on
the border, which is a strong national message. I think that's a win.
Some of his colleagues he refers to include Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, the Republican from Florida, showed up on a local TV interview and made this prediction.
Sounds like, and I'm just going to inform everyone that's tuning in right now, it sounds like we're going to be going to at least a ten day government shutdown, but hopefully during that time people will actually be able to take time. Look, it's not going to affect those security it's not going to affect Medicare. But the fact is that we need to make sure that we are not one funding a bloated government, but also too that
we're not funding a weaponized government. And so we have to address to as Congress.
All right, so ten days shutdown, that's what she's hearing. What are you hearing so much for the continuing Resolution? Speaker McCarthy, Well, he's sounding a bit frustrated when talking with froms in the hallway.
I've never seen anybody win to shut down.
You only put the power in the hands of the administration.
If you want to secure the border, passed homeland.
If you want to make America strong and security, you passed the dog appropsed bill.
If you're not willing to pass appropriation bills, and you're not willing to pass a continuing.
Resolution to allow you to pass the rest appropriation bills, and you don't want an omnibus, I don't quite know what you want. I don't quite know what you want, all the while, a procedural vote to clear the path for a continuing resolution. This is just the rule, not The bill appears to have been pulled on the House floor today, So we're glad to have some time with the ranking member of the House Budget Committee, Congressman Brendan Boyle,
is back with us. The Democrat from Pennsylvania will act literally as a news reporter, I guess in this case, because it's pretty difficult to follow the bad inside the Budget Committee. By the way, Republicans on the Budget Committee set to roll out their budget plan this afternoon. Congressman, it's good to have you back. Can we art with this procedural vote? Is this continuing resolution now in peril?
Well?
I guess this is the debut of my reporting career. I can report to you that actually the CR vote was just pulled. The rule vote for the Republican partisan continuing resolution was just pulled from the calendar. So they don't even have the votes for their own. They don't even have The Republicans don't even have the vote for a partisan Republican continuing resolution, let alone one that would pass a Democratic Senate and be signed by a Democratic president.
You know, this Republican civil war is what is causing this dysfunction. And if Kevin McCarthy would for once just stand up to his extreme MAGA base, what he would see is there's actually a strong bipartisan group maybe of three hundred and fifty members or so in the House of Representatives that can pass a compromise bill. We just saw it in June when we raised the debt ceiling and actually passed the piece of legislation that had parameters in there in terms of what next year's spending should
look like. So Kevin McCarthy should quit reneging on that deal, go back to it, and whether it's now or a month from now, I think what ultimately passes the House and Senate will look a lot like what we passed in June.
That sounds like you actually see a world in which there's no government shutdown, which I'd love to hear you speak to. But my goodness, what does it tell us when Chip Roy and others in the Freedom Caucus are actually trying to help Speaker McCarthy sell the idea of this stopgap plan, it's not his entire right flank. Things are getting confused. Congressman.
Yeah, so the Republican Caucus is at war with itself. I mean all day yesterday you saw the Speaker call one of his members a quitter. People defended her. Another member is fighting with the Speaker. It's just been chaos, crisis, and confusion ever since that first week of January when it took them fifteen attempts to elect their own guy Speaker.
Is the government going to shut down?
I don't know.
I tend to think it's more likely than not, just because I do believe there are far more than five members of the House Republican Caucus that want a government shut down.
But again, it can.
Be avoided if Speaker McCarthy comes over to our side and is willing to compromise and is willing to do exactly what we did in June. And what I said before is that sooner or later, whether it's before September thirtieth, which I hope it is, or maybe more likely than not, after September thirtieth, I think the way we get out of this impass is passing a bipartisan resolution much like we did in June.
Just talk of emotion to vacate, That's what mac Gates of Florida continues to say. It's clear that Speaker McCarthy's going to need Democratic votes to pass any real budget plan. Congressman, will Democrats help Speaker McCarthy survive a motion to vacate?
If that happens, well, we're a few hypotheticals down the lane there. So we'll, as the former president likes to say, we'll see what happens. One of the few times I quote the former president. So I really couldn't predict or say,
let's see how this budget situation plays itself out. Before we get into any hypothetical conversation about what Democrats would do in terms of emotion to vacate the chair, I will say what has really defined Kevin McCarthy's frankly miserable nine months a speaker is him constantly bending over backwards to attempt to win over the extreme MAGA members of his caucus, and they can never quite get there.
With Kevin McCarthy, i'm compelled by this idea that you're actually going to be cutting funding more Thanublicans proposed if you take this walk, at least, the idea being if things expire without a budget agreement, there's an across the board one percent cut. As we've discussed before, that was a product of the debt ceiling limit deal, or at least what's left of it. Republicans were proposing, I believe a five percent cut roughly in what's coming in here
non defense discretionary spending. So if no budget passes, the budget is actually cut by less based on what's already been baked into the cake here. Is that how you see it?
So what you're talking about.
As part of that agreement in June, there was this rather unique mechanism put in place that says, if we're still under a continuing resolution come January first, not come October first, that you would keep the government funded but at one percent last, both on defense and what is sometimes called non defense discretionary. But we're still a number of mon months before we would get to that point.
All right, So give us a sense of what comes next. And I've got an eye on the visit by President Zelenski this week. At some point there's going to have to be a concerted debate about Ukraine funding also disaster relief funding, these supplemental requests that the White House has made. Does that visit help to unlock part of that story?
Actually, I think again here's another issue where when it comes to standing up to putin supporting their allies in Ukraine, you have something like seventy percent support, seventy five percent support among the American people, maybe seventy seventy five percent support here in Congress.
But again the.
Extreme mega members that are really driving the bus when it comes to the House Republicans, they're against it. So the Ukraine funding issue I think is going to be quite challenged. It won't be in the Senate, where there is frankly stronger Republican leadership, and I think you have a big bipartisan vote over there. To continue to stand up to PUT and then make sure our allies have what they need, you would have a strong bipartisan vote
here in the House. If Kevin McCarthy is willing to stand up to his extreme mag of members and put that on the House floor right now, he's just not willing to do it.
So there's an appetite among Republican leadership elsewhere, certainly in the Senate. So you do wonder how this pans out. With a few voices here, there seems to be a
pretty broad majority actually supporting continued support for Ukraine. There's one thing I'd like to ask you about that doesn't come up enough, though, Congressman, and that's the so called childcare cliff, the expiration of funding pandemic era funding for childcare services now sunsetting and leaving tens of thousands potentially
of childcare programs about to expire. President Biden, with your support, did not get the expanded childcare tax credit in the Build Back Better debate that some of us have blocked out at this point. God, it was a protracted debate that en up with the IRA, But I wonder if childcare is going to be on the table in this debate.
It needs to be.
You know, there were a couple provisions that we did during the pandemic that made such a big difference. One of them was the expanded child tax credit that lifted so many millions of children and families out of poverty. We saw this past week the devastating impact of that expiring and more children now below the poverty line. And then likewise, when it comes to the childcare crisis, this is yet another I mean, I voted to make that permanent as part of what was originally the Build Back
Better Act. It's a tragedy that the Senate then wasn't able to pass it. So I'm part of a group that's really attempting to put this on the forefront of our agenda, and I do want to make sure as part of these budget negotiations that we address what is a crisis and frankly, affects not just those families that need childcare, but it affects our overall economy. It holds back the full growth potential of our economy.
Before we let you go, Congressman, will Democrats make an ally of Speaker McCarthy? Will Speaker McCarthy make an ally of Democrats? Through the process of this budget debate, it appears one cannot operate without the other.
Well, as I mentioned before, Kevin McCarthy seems far more interested in pandering to every last mega member of his caucus.
That's why I ask you if it's possible or maybe rather.
Than working, rather than working with Democrats, the one and only time in the last nine months he was able to reach across the aisle and work with Democrats, we saw a big bipartisan success when we passed that budget agreement raise the debt ceiling. Eighty percent of House Democrats voted for it, myself included, sixty seven percent of House Republicans voted for it. Kevin McCarthy gets back to that sort of bipartisanship, They'll always be a willing partner on our side of the aisle.
It's good to have you back. Congressman. Thanks for being with a son Bloomberg. He's the ranking member on the House Budget Committee in the throes of this debate, Congressman Brendan Boyle, Democrat from Pennsylvania. As we assemble our panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanseno are with us for the hour. Bloomberg Politics contributors with a lot to talk about today, and I'd love to have time here to hear from
both of you on this genie. The view of a Democrat in this world, Brendan Boyle sounds like one that obviously in the minority, doesn't have a lot to say. And what's about to happen next. How can Democrats affect the outcome of this debate?
You know, I don't think there's much they can do at this point. But of course, if the Speaker wants to get something past, and he's going to have to look to Hakeem Jeffries, he's going to have to look to the Democrats, and he is going to have to work with them. And you know, I think the fear of some of us is that the decision to throw an impeachment inquiry into this mess in an effort to distract his card right conservative end has made that a
little bit tougher. But I do think End, whether it's to save his job, whether is it to pass a continuing resolution, hopefully to fund the government, he will be able to count on Democrats to do that. But they're going to have to do what has to happen. They're going to have to negotiate that out, and I think Democrats will be prepared to do that. But I think the representative of the Congressman is right, you don't want to talk about that and insert yourself into a family
civil war at this point. But when it comes up and McCarthy decides to come to them, I think that the leadership on the Democratic side and enough Democrats will be there.
Ricky, the Congressman didn't have much good to say about Speaker McCarthy right now, and I did give him an opportunity to come back around on that is his criticism, correct, Or will Democrats find themselves at the table with Kevin McCarthy completing a final product at some point?
Yeah?
I thought Congressman Boyle actually kind of sounded like he felt sorry for Kevin McCarthy because he is kind of being held hostage by one of the wings of his caucus, and the caucus is an open revolt, and he's trying to get a few things done, like actually not shutting
down the government. In today's Newsmaker, that Congressman just talked about that the rule that was going to set up the vote for the continuing resolution got pulled, means they don't have the votes for it, which means that you're going to have to wait and see what happens next.
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Maybe the problem solvers can fix it, right, There's got to be a caucus somewhere in this House, the Bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus working up report the a clean CR sixteen billion dollars disaster relief. But none of the Republican concessions that we've been hearing about is that the plan B. There are so many families to please here in the House, it's getting a little bit confusing. Of course, a lot
of this hinges on President Zelensky in support for Ukraine. Incidentally, we're going to be hearing from President Vladimir Zelensky live from the un He'll be standing in front of the Green Marble a short time from now. We'll bring you those remarks on Bloomberg Radio here on YouTube as well when they happen. Incidentally, join us on YouTube if you want to be in the studio here search Bloomberg Global News.
Our cameras are lit speaking McCarthy talking about this, by the way, knowing President Zelenski's coming to Washington after that speech, He'll be here later this week to meet with the president, go to the hill, meet with the leaders, Like, mister speaker.
Is Zelenski elected to Congress? Is he our president? I don't think I've committing I have questions for him. Where's the accountability and the money we already spit? What is the plan for victory?
That sounds like a fun meeting. Let's reassemble the panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano or here Bloomberg Politics contributors. What do you think of that?
Rick?
It's a lot different when someone's sitting in front of you. But McCarthy does not sound like he's looking forward to talking to President Zelenski says, what is he a member of Congress? What's that conversation going to be?
Like?
Yeah, no, I mean, I'm actually stunned that he would take this kind of chip on your shoulder attitude.
What's your plan for victory?
I hope Zelenski tells him, I'm going to kill as many Russians as I can get my hands on. I mean, like, what in the world does he think is happening in the Ukraine.
There's a war going.
On, and it's a war that they are fighting, not us, And the most we've done is to put some of our treasure to work. And I just find it unbelievable that he doesn't have more sensibility around a guy who's in the middle of a shooting war with Russians. But look, I mean, he's got bigger problems than Zelenski. You know, the reality is, is he still going to be speaker when Zelensky gets to town. I don't think it's an
academic question anymore. And so Zelenski actually may survive longer than he does.
That's pretty remarkable. Genie. I don't know your thought on this, but it is different when somebody is coming in person to ask you for something, as opposed to ping ponging around the media and a reporter is going to ask you this in the hallway and you have to sound like a tough guy to please certain constituencies. Which one do you think shows up at the meeting?
Yeah, I think that all depends to your point on whether that meeting is in public or private. I think in private Kevin McCarthy will be incredibly respectful to Zelensky. He understands the situation over there full well. But this is the Kevin McCarthy that we have seen since he was narrowly elected speaker, and it is a you know, a speaker with very little power to run his own caucus, and so he goes out and he says outrageous things like he said about Zelensky. Is he president? Is he
a member of Congress? And then he'll say something else privately. It's the same thing he said after January sixth, when he chastised the president rightly so for his role on that and suggested he can't continue to serve and then, of course, not that long after, went down to mar A Lago hat in hand. So you know, this is Kevin McCarthy in the position he finds himself in as
he desperately tries to maintain this job. And I think the question that has to be asked about Kevin McCarthy to Kevin McCarthy rather is is this job worth it? You have to be able at some point to stand up for what you believe. And with Kevin McCarthy, we see him say one thing privately, one thing publicly, one thing to Zelenski, one thing to reporters, one thing to his caucus. I mean it goes on and on, and at some point he may not have this job much
longer because he's been too cute by half. And I think it's an awful shame for Kevin McCarthy to be in this situation.
Well, you guys agree on that one. As we consider what's happening all the while in Detroit, I've got to ask you both about the strike here as we stand by to hear from President Zelenski at the un Friday deadline noontime high noon, says Sean Fain. The UAW, as I read on the terminal, says more of its members will go on strike at all three of the Big Three if deals are not in place by then maybe
we haven't really even seen the hardball yet. Rick, what do you think does a deal emerge ahead of the deadline?
Yeah, I actually think the UAW did a brilliant move. I hate to give them credit for this, but the standing strike, you know, only three locations, a lot more leverage to do.
Use the week very effectively to draw.
A distinction between the ultra rich executives and the you know, blue collar work that are making the cars. I think he's played this week as best as any labor union leader I've ever seen, splitting the politics, having Donald Trump, you know, basically looking like he's trying to directly appeal to UAW workers, and the President, who seems outflanked by that, is caught in between wanting the economy to move forward but not wanting to look like he's helping a bunch
of rich executives. I mean, this is a mess of effort proportion, and I think the UAW seems to have everybody on the run. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't increase the strike after the Friday deadline. I doubt if they're going to get a deal done because I don't think there's enough pain in the.
Corporate boardroom right now.
But after Friday, I think all bets are off and you could probably see something happen pretty quick.
Well.
The debate among Republicans is fascinating to me, Jennie, and as a Democrat who supports unionized labor, I would love your take on this JD vance with an op ed and the Toledo Blade with this moment Hero, the UAW leadership has an opportunity they cannot let slip through their grasp. Should use their leverage and force the president to stop subsidizing an industry that benefits communist China more than it does American workers. That's an op ed that's resonating today.
On the other side of things, and by the way, Rick also referred to another big part of this. It's Donald Trump going to speak to UAW members in Detroit instead of attending the Republican presidential debate next week. On
the other end is Senator Tim Scott. Imagine this as Donald Trump courts an endorsement from the UAW, Tim Scott calls up Ronald Reagan and talks about potentially firing unionized workers who go on strike, with memories of those were, of course, federal workers air traffic controllers back in the eighties. Here's Tim Scott on the campaign trail.
Donald Raigny gave.
As a great example the guen federal voice side must write that you start your fire.
Civil concept to me to they said that week. If you said it once again.
Absolutely, you're striking your fire. Genie, which one of these approaches of all three might stick for Republicans.
You know, I have to say here, I think JD. Vance and Donald Trump's political instincts are much better than Tim Scott's on this issue. They understand the reality is the Republicans had the White House in twenty sixteen because they were able to make inroads in the Midwest. Michigan is critical in twenty twenty four. Joe Biden narrowly captures it in twenty If he loses it, Donald Trump or
whoever the Republican nominee is, is likely to win. And it seems to me that Donald Trump understands that full well. He speaks a language that appeals to workers on the line. The problem is his policies haven't followed suit. So while he's trying to use this cudgel of China and he's trying to talk about to EVS, I think Sean Fain is right to point out that you have a millionaire billionaire talking to people on the line about what he's going to do for them. It falls flat from the
perspective of the leadership of the UAW. But I think Trump is right, and so is Advance to try to make this play. I think Scott's got to wake up to the reality of the way the electoral College works this day, and this is a really important constituency to appeal to and vance and Trump know that.
How does President Biden answer this challenge then, Rick, does he show up on the picket line? Does he come up with some sort of special one time unemployment insurance for workers? How does he seize the moment?
Yeah, I think he's I think he's got to have some of those options in his toolkit right now. And I'd say he's got less than a week because he wants to do whatever he's going to do to help benefit the UAW workers.
He's got to do it before.
Donald Trump shows up there, because Donald Trump will tell him what they want to hear and with no real intention of doing anything about it. But I think it's a broader issue here, so like how far the Republican Party has come from supporting free enterprise and corporate America. I mean, these corporations have a friend. I mean, look at the Santas. He's out there attacking corporations every day. You know, they're too woke, they're too involved in politics.
And you know, here are politicians now getting involved in labor strikes, not on the side of the chief executives in the boardroom, but on the side of the union organizers.
It's it's really amazing.
And so if Corporate America gets one message out of this, like they need to take a look at what kind of politics they're playing, because they don't have a friend at the in the game right now and they need to go find some.
It's kind of amazing. Republicans are now the party of union, labor and tariffs. What's going on?
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We have heard from President Biden. He spoke a bit earlier, a couple of hours ago. As we see the headline on the terminal, Biden urges you when to stand by Ukraine as allies see long war ahead. Of course, this was for an audience around the world, not just those at the United Nations General Assembly and certainly those in the US House of Representatives.
If you allow Ukraine to be carved up, is the independence of any nation secure. I right respectfully suggest the answers, No, we have to stand up to this negative aggression today and deter other would be aggressiors tomorrow. That's why the United States, together with our allies and partners around the world, will continue to stand with the brave people of Ukraine as they defend their sovereignty, an terrotorial integrity, and their freedom.
Applause for the American president today, standing up to aggression today, deterring aggression tomorrow, the message, let's reassemble our pan Well, Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis or Bloomberg Politics contributors. Is that the case, Genie, that's essentially the argument he's been making for nineteen months. Or does he need to start altering that argument to tailor certain interests here in the Capitol?
Yeah?
I mean, I think it's an important argument, and I thought the speech today was fairly good. I thought it was very strong on the issue you talked the most about, which was obviously Ukraine. I do think he needs to be cognizant of not just the world audience and that
is critical, but also the audience here at home. And I've long thought he thought rather he needs to do a better job, and it's a hard job of letting Americans know why they have an interest in continuing this level of monetary support for Ukraine, because this is where we see poll numbers dipping, not just with Republicans but with Democrats. And it's not that the American people don't
support Ukraine in the fight against Russia. It's that there earned about sending resources, and I think there's an important argument to be made about why that's in our interest. But I think that should be a big part of the focus. So I thought he missed a little bit of that today, But overall, on Ukraine, I thought it
was a good speech. Not so much on climate change, where I think he's going to get hit very hard and he already has, but I think he'll get hit harder by activists and that's a problem for him domestically, let alone for people around the world.
Well, Genie does remind us this speech was about a lot more than Ukraine. I'm zeroing in on that point as we're kind of talking about the budget debate here in Washington, but knowing that President Zelenski will be here, Rick, does this set the table for what's going to be a much Louder conversation at the end of this week.
Yeah, I actually.
Shockingly agree with Genie on the need for Biden to have done more to lay out why the American people should care about Vladimir Zelenski and the Ukrainians. But I think it should have started with a full throat at attack, not on Russia. Russia didn't start the war. Russia didn't invade.
Vladimir Putin did. And I'm just stunned that Vladimir Putin is basically getting away with a buye from, you know, from the President of United States and a speech to the UN.
Here's a guy who's like running out of troops and running out of AMMO, so he's going around to every two bit dictator in the world he can find, begging for armors that he can use in a country.
That he's invaded.
I mean, I think it could have been a much more ferocious speech by the President and that would remind everybody in Congress you have one side to be on Vladimir Putins or ours, And I think when you put it in the that context, there are a lot of people who'll be voting yes on a funding bill.
For the Ukraine.
Well, that's a reality check for the naysayers here in Washington, certainly Genie the It's an interesting debate here that we're hearing, and I'm not sure what your expectations are later on this week, But should funding the government rely on funding for Ukraine here or should Congress be handling this as a separate matter.
You know, I do think it makes sense to handle it with the emergency aid that needs to go out to so many places impacted, including Hawaii, which hasn't gotten as much attention of late, and other places that have experienced that. So I do think it makes sense to do it that way. You know, I think the reality is and I love how Rick is saying shocking when he agrees with me. Rick agrees with me more than
he wants to admit. But you know, I do think the problem that the Republicans have is when you talk about Putin, you have a small group, but a sizeable, powerful, loud group in the Republican Party who are fine with being together with strong men like Vladimir Putin, and that comes right from the top, people like Donald Trump. So you know, that's a problem for the Republican Party, but
for Democrats in the administration. I agree that would be a tactic for Biden's sake, But I say I think most importantly, he's got to make the case, as he's tried to make to his credit throughout his presidency, that this is a struggle much bigger than Putin or Russia.
It is a struggle between the autocrats of the world, and when we say they are winning, the data supports that, and democracies like ours, which are in enormous up people look at what's happening with Modi and India and Canada today. We haven't even talked about that. I mean, democracies are in peril. We have an obligation in the United States to lead us through that for people around the world.
And that's a message I think Biden's got to send to Americans at home and democrats small d around the world. And it's far bigger than any sort of bipartisan or partisan bickering in the US.
Rick, do you buy the argument that it's advantage Biden because so many other world leaders are not there? You already mentioned Putin president, She's not there, Macron's not there, asun it's not there. Does that help him maneuver more effectively at the general Assembly.
Well, I certainly think it sends a message that the US is willing to engage when others are stuck at home, either because of their own crisises or that they really don't think it's a welcoming venue for them.
So look what he's done.
He's gotten this really cool Atlantic Council that he's put together, that he announced I think on the very first day.
He's meeting with the Central Republics today.
Now, any time you can get the stands in one room without Russia hovering over it is a good day. And so I think that's a really important place in the region, you know. And he's spending more time with the Global South. We've talked a lot about that and how important it is in the competition we're having with China. So yeah, I mean, I think it's a good use of his time. Frankly, I think he ought to stay
in the work and keep doing it. Don't come back to Washington for a while, because this town is not set for him right now.
Well, I'll tell you he's coming back, and this is going to be interesting Thursday Friday. It's all anyone will be talking about here is funding for Ukraine and how it plays into a potential shutdown. Great insights as always from Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano. They do agree fairly often. Our signature panel here on sound On this is always who we want to hear from when news hits that matters. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast.
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As we spend some time with Jane Harman at the table again share of the Commission on the National Defense Strategy for ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, Jane, I guess, prescient, you're timing to sit here with us as we all listen together to President Zelenski today, in the time that you have with us, connect the dots between this speech and the very difficult conversation it appears that we're about to have in Washington upon his visit this week.
Well, this is as I understand, it's Celenski's first speech to the UN General Assembly since Russia illegally invaded his country. This will be his second speech, well, not to Congress as a formal entity, but to members of Congress and another meeting with President Biden. The Washington part will be tougher, no question, there's a friendly audience at the UN. Russia is not present. The four veto wielding members of the UN General Assembly other than the US are not there.
So there are one hundred and fifty countries well represented there, many of whom are recepted to his message, although some are not and think that there are higher priorities here. He's going to pitch one thing, which is supplemental funding for his country. Biden is strongly for that. I certainly am strongly for that. Some lead Republicans in the Senate, like Mitch McConnell, are strongly for it. But Kevin McCarthy has basically no room to maneuver and is holding his
cards close. And it's not clear yet what will happen. I predict that funding will occur. I can't imagine the US walking back on commitments to not a NATO member, but a NATO neighbor. After all, it's gone on, so I think Congress weekly but eventually we'll get there in the next period.
But if it is weekly that they get there, if it takes a lot of arm wrestling and twisting and it's difficult to get done, it shows that there is a waning appetite, at least in the US in some parts of it to continue supporting Ukraine, and that has to ripple around the rest of the world as Biden is pitching to other countries to help.
Well, it's crucial that we be there. More than half the funding of Ukraine by NATO comes from the US. We have led, Biden has led. Biden deserves enormous credit for restoring our alliances, something he talked about at the UN earlier today. He really does. But I think this is a manifestation of a broken Congress. There's no agreement on a budget. People want to reign in spending. This is the wrong spending to rein in. I want to reign in spending too. While in Congress for nine terms,
I was a so called blue dog. I'm for fiscal responsibility, but this is not responsible to walk back on this war. I mean, after all, if we want to contain authoritarian aggression in the world, the Ukrainians have to win and we have to help them.
Win, if you know, if anyone does. Everyone's a tough guy when they're on a remote interview with an ear piece, or they're yelling at somebody by way of an op ed, or they're on a cable news network that agrees with them. What happens when Speaker McCarthy is standing in the room with President Selenski. That's the success that he had upon his last visit when he addressed a joint session of Congress. Can he recreate that?
I think it'll be hard. I think he has made a deal with the devil, meaning that he has absolutely no room to maneuver as speaker. I think in his heart he knows what the right thing to do, so there's no persuasion. And I don't think he's in favor of closing the government either. He is in favor of cutting spending, but again, so am I and so are lots of people, but not this way. And I don't know what he'll say. I think it's going to be a very awkward moment for him.
While we're looking ahead to the speech Selenski is going to give in Washington. That speech at the UN General Assembly is ongoing. He just said we must act united to defeat the aggressor and fight all of these challenges. And Jane, I'd like to point to a Bloomberg opinion piece by one of our colleagues, Andrea's Kluth today who said Moscow's genocidal invasion of Ukraine is person xcisely the sort of war of aggression that the UN was meant
to prevent and punish. And yet much of the world still refuses to line up behind Biden in the West against Moscow. Does do you an't even really serve a real purpose? If that is true, it's a convening authority. And look at all the folks who showed up in New York. I'm sure the traffic is impassable. Showing up there myself in another.
Day, I'll pay for that. But it is not using all the power that it could use. I mean, just think about and I think Zelensky was mentioning this, the weaponizing of food, the inability of Ukraine to get its ships out because of the Russian blockade. Where's the UN? The UN could be escorting those ships. This is a legitimate question about whether NATO ought to be stepping up because three NATO countries border the Black Sea, which is
a not territory of Russia. So I don't know what will happen, but I would love to hear the UN itself make some more money uscular comments about Ukraine, and I think this would be a good opportunity.
I'd love your thoughts before you leave us. On the news that was driving the day at this time yesterday, and that was a prisoner swap with Iran, Secretary of State B. Lincoln spoke. I won't say emotionally, but he was clearly touched by his conversations. We spoke with them moments after they were released. There are Republicans who are
criticizing this deal heavily. Ted Cruz, senator from Texas, was on with us last night who said this was essentially the equivalent of a secret nuclear deal with Iran by unlocking this money, the six billion dollars that was involved in the transaction.
How would you respond to him, that's a little overblown.
I mean, getting our prisoners back who are unjustly held is a high priority for the US. My understanding is we do have means to monitor how this money will be spent. This is money, This isn't our money. This is money that has been embargoed. That is their money, so let's go there. But if it's spent on help
for the Ukrainian people, that's in our interest. We would like the Ukrainian people to know our issue isn't with them, it's with their totalitarian government, especially Theresian Yes, with the Ukrainian with the Iranian pardon me, pardon me, with the Ukrainian people, with the Iranian people, we're talking about our issue. Our issue is not with the Iranian people. It's with their repressive government, which, among other things, is is doing
dreadful things to women and women's rights. And as the chair of the Freedom House Board, I'm very, very happy that we are doing everything we can to protect those women.
So that was the right deal, You'd do it again.
I think we need to know a little more, but yes, that was in the right direction, and I think Tony Blincoln being emotional is also right. I think this is
a big deal to the American government. Our soft power matters, it's not just hard power, and showing that we care about Americans and human beings detained all over the world is a very high priority for us, and it persuades others to support not President Biden per se, although I do, but to support policies which bring the world back together in favor of freedom and democracy.
We're glad you could join us. Jan good luck in New York this week. Travel safe, we look forward to talking again. Jane Harmon, as always, welcome here at the table. Thanks for listening to the sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.