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Now forty thousand days. It's kind of amazing see this happened, Kaylee. As we were discussing earlier, is there a tweet or a post from the White House on this yet? Because Donald Trump would have been playing this up big time. Yeah, and it would probably resonate in the polls. I only asked that because the president has struggled to connect the dots on all things economy, and I realized they're two different things. What do you have Biden?
Harris HQX accounts Yes, thirteen minutes ago put out a new ad about Trump in twenty twenty, saying the stock market would collapse if Joe Biden won, noting that Dow did just hit forty thousand, the highest level ever recorded in history.
So they heard it took us at it. Yeah, I mean we've been on the air for a little bit here. I'm glad, I'm Glad to always know that they're listening. Glad that you're with us as well on Bloomberg TV and radio. As we come off a couple of brutal days of testimony, Day two in the Senate today wrapping
up Kayley for the head of the FDIC. And of course this has everything to do with a report that was submitted last week, an independent report highlighting a toxic workplace culture at the agency, and there are resounding calls on Capitol Hill for mister Gruenberg's resignation. We heard from him a bit earlier in the broadcast. Bloomberg News spoke with Senator Catherine Cortez Mast of Nevada about her take on this year's what she told us earlier on Capitol Hill.
It addresses the workplace culture and the structure when it comes to protecting these employees. And so those recommendations, to me, that's the action items that they need to be taking, and they need to be implementing them, every single one of them, not questioning them like the previous report under the previous year, question some of the recommendations that were made and challenge them. That should not happen in this case. They should be saying yes to every single recommendation and
implement it. To me, those are part of the action imans those federal employees need to.
See Democratic Senator Catherine Cortes Masto on Capitol Hill earlier, and we go there now live where we're joined, I'm pleased to say by Republican Senator Jony Ernst of Iowa, who also has introduced legislation that relates to the issues at the FDIC. Senator, thank you so much for joining us here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. In the face of the reports like the one we have gotten out of the FDICE, you, together with a Democratic colleague, Kirsten Gillibrand,
have introduced the No Taxpayer Funded Pensions for Sex Criminals Act. Essentially, this legislation would prohibit sex criminals from collecting taxpayer funded pensions. My question, Senator, is the chairman has not been accused actually of any crimes, just perhaps having a role in allowing this kind of environment to continue at the FDIC, and there's been a lot of calls for his resignation. Does he deserve to collect a pension?
Well, and no, he has not perpetrated any of the acts that are covered by this legislation. So two separate issues. One is he is a very poor leader. He enabled this type of culture to occur at the FDIC, So I'm actually calling on him to either resign or President Joe Biden should fire him. But second is the act that I have drawn up with my colleague, Senator Kirsten Jillibrand of New York that would stop taxpayer funded pensions
going to those that are convicted of sexual harassment. So two separate items, but man, they come together in a exus at the FDIC because we have seen those that exist within the FDIC pushing sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, elicit photos texted to females within the FDICE. So I think there is a lot to uncover here. We saw that independent report over three hundred and forty pages of horrible, horrible, fret boy type behavior happening at the FDIC.
Yeah, there's been a lot of references. Senator, it's good to see you again. We haven't caught up since we were in Iowa. A lot of talk around Washington about locker room talking, locker room behavior, and it was just in May of last year that a jury found Donald Trump libel for sexual abuse if your bill became law, would that remove his pension?
Well, that's quite possible. But what we're focused on is those that are out there, those that have been convicted of that, and then yes, they would have their pension stripped away. It's a behavior that has to stop. So we see this in the FDICE. We see these federal employees that are really suffering. And again I want to go back to the FDIC chairman and how he allowed this behavior to continue. Complaints were made to the fdi CE, complaints that he either knew about or just simply dismissed.
He himself had bad behavior, yelling at employees, throwing objects, all very very poor exhibits of leadership or lack thereof, but again, bad behavior. We need to make sure that those that are in leadership positions in the federal government, no one understand that they can't take advantage of their employees. If they are convicted, they will lose their taxpayer funded pensions. End of story.
Well, Senator, if I could just go back to the fact that you just said, it's quite possible if this were to become law, that Donald Trump could not continue to collect a federal pension. He wouldn't be eligible for that, but still should be seen as qualified to collect a presidential salary back in the Oval Office come January of next year.
Different issues because this is an elected position. If people want him to be the president of the United States, and I fully believe that he will be the President of the United States, then we will see him serving again. A little different issue, a little different take on it. These are people that are hired by the federal government working in an environment where they are assaulting other employees of the federal government. It is up to the federal
government to protect those employees. One way we do that and we make sure that this behavior doesn't happen is by letting them know upfront if you are convicted of these crimes, you will be stripped of that pension.
We're spending time with Senator Jony Ernst on Balance of Power. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington. I want to ask you about a couple of other issues. Well we have you here, Senator, including the idea of raising tariffs on China. This is something that Joe Biden chose to do this week while maintaining the Trump tariffs on China and It's something that Bloomberg discussed with Jamie Diamond. Of course, from JP Morgan Chase. Let's listen to what he said.
I think it's the right thing for America to fully and deeply engage with China. You know, competitively. You know every nation is going to do. It's in their own interest in national security, social America. We should define that fairly improperly. If it's unfair trade, you know, negotiate that or do whatever you need to do. But the engagement is the right thing to do.
Engagement is the right thing to do. Senator, how do you have both?
It's really difficult. But we have seen President Donald Trump do the tariffs. He focused very heavily on correcting the actions for my Iowa farmers, and I felt that he was very strong on that. We see now President Joe Biden doing this and what he is trying to do. He's focusing more on electric vehicles and chips and not focusing necessarily so much on my farmers in Iowa. But certainly when it comes to China, we have to be
very cautious. We want to disengage where we can on items of national security importance, whether that's pharma, pharmaceuticals or items that go into our defense industry. I think it's extremely important, but we also need to make sure that we're looking out for our interests here in the United States and we continue to develop domestic manufacturing. We need to quit leaning on China. They are bad, bad trade partners, and we have seen this with I'll give an example
of my Iowa farmers. China will negotiate on some soybeans coming from the state of Iowa. Those soybeans are shipped by our Iowa farmers. They're headache over the Pacific Ocean. China will cancel the order, then renegotiate for a lower price on soybeans or whatever other commodity it might be, and the Iowa farmers are stuck with it. This is where President Trump really stood up and did the right thing by the Iowa farmers correcting that action with those tariffs.
So we're going to see more of this. We're going to see a lot about this talked about before we go into the election cycle. I wish that we would see more engagement pushing back on China, whether it's President Trump, whether it is President Joe Biden.
Well, Senator, as you talk about the farmers in your state of Iowa. Are you not concerned that if this is pushed too far, these tariffs go too far, that they could be called fall victim to retaliation from China.
Yes, this is one thing that was brought up again when President Trump was in the Oval Office. I had an Iowa farmer that actually laid it out and he said, you know, he slapped his hand on the table and he said, I know this is going to hurt for a while, but he said, I am so thankful for President Donald Trump. He's actually stay landing up for American farmers.
He is correcting this action. So while the pain may be short term, we are going to find other outlets for corns, for soybeans, for pork, for beef, for poultry. We are going to find those other outlets America can produce. China needs it more than America needs China consuming it.
Senator, I'm getting the hook here, but I just have to ask you quickly in our last couple of seconds. Are we going to get a new farm bill this year you keep referring to my farmers, or will they extend the one in place?
Oh Joe, we are really struggling with the farm bill this year, and it is a one and a half trillion dollar price tag in the United States Senate, but only about fourteen to fifteen percent of that goes to farm programs. We need to rename the bill. We're not going to pass it this year. We'll take another shot early next year. We'll have to extend the twenty eighteen farm Bill. It's a disappointment for sure. It's a discipline lease.
Come back and talk to us about this. It's important to our listeners and viewers, just like it is to you, Senator Jony Ernst. We thank you for the time today.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast Ken just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then rod Oro with a Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Joe, it's pretty remarkable to see another great day if you're long equay markets. So you got forty thousand on the Dow, We're north of fifty three hundred on the S and P five hundred. Stocks are at record highs, and yet continually the current incumbent administration does not get credit for anything really going well in the economy. It's one of his biggest headaches. But we know it's just one headache on a very long list.
Well, that's true, big thumbs down on the economy and just about every pole you see. Rick Davis said it earlier, Kaylee, if you had predicted forty thousand to coincide with this administration, people might have laughed at you in the throes of COVID where we were when he took office. And if this were Donald Trump, he'd probably be at the New York Stock Exchange calling this his own. Yeah, that's right. No hats today, by the way, kind of a bummer.
I still have my ten thousand hats somewhere. You're alluding to other issues, though, and Israel is one of them. We've seen this take form in a lot of different ways on the campaign trail. But what's actually happening in Israel right now as we anticipate this vote today to compel the administration to provide weaponry is less to do with what's happening in Gaza now than it is what happens after the war is complete.
Yeah, whenever that after ultimately is because, of course we're still not anywhere in sight of an actual completion to this current conflict between Israel and Hamas. But we know what the US has been pushing for is a two state solution. That is not something that the Prime Minister of Benjamin net Yahoo, seems quite open to at this point. But it doesn't seem that everyone in the Israeli government has the same ideas on this, and you're starting to see that rift born out in public.
Yes, very much so. Ian Marlow is reporting on it for a Bloomberg senior reporter covering diplomacy and geopolitics, joins us at the table here on a post war Gaza. Ian is Benjamin Nettnah, who becoming more isolated on this with.
Time, Yeah, I think so. I mean I think he's stood alone for some time. Secretary Blincoln, who I've traveled with around the region several times, has tried to corral sort of Arab partners in the region to get some sort of grand bargain to bring to Israel. Each time we go to the region, and each time we end up in Israel at the end of these trips, it seems like it just falls on deaf years.
Again, the.
Day After plan is just not the priority for the Israeli government at the moment. For Netna who in particular, I mean, he's focused on destroying Hamas, on getting supposedly, you know, the hostages out as part of their deal. But anything that comes after that is just at the moment, and I think with the conflict dragging on as long as it has seven months now, there's a lot of impatience to see exactly what the reality is going to be like when we get to the other side of the conflict.
Well, I guess my question Ian is We've had a lot of conversations with people like yourself, with others who are experts in the Middle East and Israel specifically, who have suggested that Benjamin and yah who has every incentive to keep this drawn out in order to preserve his
own position of power. So I wonder if we do get to the point where we're talking about an after whether or not he's actually going to be relevant to that equation, Because if we reach the after, is he still going to be in power.
He's very relevant to the equation. The question is whether he needs to be removed from power for that day After plan that the US has to actually unfold the
way the US wants. And I think whenever US officials go to Israel, they go to meet with the war Cabinet, and then they meet individually with different members of the war cabinet, and I think I think that's a bit of a deliberate attempt because a lot of the people in that war cabinet want to be Prime minister the day Netnah who is no longer the prime minister, and so,
and that's a reality that he faces. And BB also faces the fact that his coalition is very ramshackle, it's a very it's the most right wing government in Israeli history. There are people well to the right of Netanyahu himself who say, you know, if you do you know, if you agree to certain things in post war Gaza, like a two state solution, we are going to collapse your government.
And on the other side, on the left, he's actually facing a little bit of a rising discontent there too, because in the wake of October seventh, there were all of the protests about Netanyahu and the judicial reform that he had tried to push through ended and now there's kind of vague talk now of potentially having a general strike, pushing the government to get a ceasefire deal, and other things. So he's being squeezed from both ends here, and I
think you're right. I think a lot of people I speak to say, you know, what the US wants won't happen with Netnahu in charge. And also this, you know, the day the war ends, Net Yea who is out, so he has every incentive to kind of string this out.
So with all this noise, are you hearing that any other members of his war cabinet, you've Gallant or otherwise are back channeling with the White House to their own benefit.
I think anytime one of them shows up in Washington, those that sort of impression gets around, and it's it's hard to avoid. And now, you know, with Gallant coming out and others supporting him, you know, directly criticizing Yaho and his policies, it looks like to some extent that the starter pistol has won to be fired.
All right, it's great stuff. Ian Marlow, as always who reports on diplomacy for US here at Bloomberg, thank you so much. And it's so interesting, Joe to consider that not only are there international pressures on BB Netnyahuo, including President Biden being more and more outspoken in his pleasure with the Israeli government's decisions now but facing a lot of internal pressures.
Well, absolutely, it's really this is an important moment. I feel like we're going to look back at this period of time in the middle of May as an inflection point in this process. I figure those covering the Trump trial probably feel the same way. Actually, Michael Cohens back on cross examination June Grosso a Bloomberg Law is reporting that the defense probably will not let go of the rains here before the weekend because they want the jury to stay focused on their case that they can probably
wrap up next week. This thing is.
Moving, yeah, keeping in mind there is no court tomorrow. It's Baron Trump's high school graduation, so there will be a day off, and then we're pretty quickly coming up on the Memorial Day holiday at the end of next week. So I do wonder how logistically all of this is going to work out. But of course they have to actually finish witness testimony and then do their closing arguments
before we can get to the end of things. And I just wonder what we're making of cross examination day too, or at least what Robert Worder is making of it. He is a criminal and constitutional law attorney. Welcome back, sir, to Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. The defense is spending a lot of time in this cross examination trying to get Michael Cohen to admit that he is lied under oath. In times past, he's been found
guilty of perjury, he's spent time in prison. They're essentially trying to prove that he is willing to lie under oath. So why would the jury believe, based on this testimony that he's not doing so?
Again, well, because he's in a good position to give the information which the prosecution is built up to, and his statements are corroborated. You know, I've said before it doesn't matter if the jury dislikes Michael Cohen as a person. The issue is going to be whether they're going to believe what he says about Donald Trump and this situation
that is the cross examination of him. However, the defense began with a whole different tact which I thought was really ill advised, where they started attacking him saying basically, you hate Donald Trump, and so the logical inferences you hate there, Donald Trump air go, You're going to lie to do anything to get him convicted. The trouble is, mister Cohen has a very good response, which is, yeah,
I don't like Donald Trump. Where I hate don Trump because Donald Trump has done terrible things, and I've gone along with it. And now that I've had my redemption in my little epiphany, I've seen the light and now I'm not supporting him anywhere anymore.
And by the way, when I was lying before, it was only on his behalf. That's why I'm here today.
So overall, I don't think it works out all that terribly well for the defense. I have been in many trials where the government or the state has given immunity to a certain defendant to testify against the others. And the person might be a terrible person that Jerry hates it, it doesn't mean they're not going to believe what they say. Given the context of the cakes.
Robert, I wonder if raising your voice, bringing emotion as a defense attorney is a strategy. And I ask you that because Todd blanche in hot today. He's yelling at Michael Cohen, trying to get Cohen to yell back at him, and they had an important exchange here, Blanche highlighting this is the first time Michael Cohen is testified to having had specific telephone call, or at least one call, with
Donald Trump to discuss paying off Stormy Daniels. Yes, I believe I was telling the truth, Cohen said, what's the defense trying to do here?
Well, I don't think the defense is doing a particularly good job of winning the case with the jury. I think what the defense is trying to do there is make their client happy. And I think what they're doing is fulfilling their client's bigger goals. And I'm going to take kind of a unique tack on this that I haven't heard a lot of people talk about. I don't think for Donald Trump what happens in the courtroom's all
that terribly important. What's important for him is what's happening outside of the court and his ability to spin what's going on in the courtroom as his political strategy dictates.
Look, he gets up.
After every court day and he complains that I should be campaigning. Well, if he's out campaigning, he's out talking to maybe a couple hundred people at a rally, maybe a few thousand, right, But he gets to talk to five million or more people every time he walks out of that courthouse and talks of free media coverage, and his themes are the same. So, for instance, with Michael Cohen, he can walk up and he always talked about Trump
arrangement syndrome. Well, if you think about that, what that is saying is those people are crazy because they dislike me, ignoring the fact that those people dislike him because of what he does.
So if your carouse.
Examination of Michael Cohen is oh, you just hate Donald Trump, Donald Trump comes out and plays the same theme, and he ties it into this great conspiracy against him, and he's their savior of all the people out in TV land. That's what's important. Donald Trump and his lawyers are accommodating this in their performance in the courtroom, and I don't
think it plays well at all with the jury. But Trump has already decided it doesn't matter if he loses that trial because by the time he gets sentenced, by the time appeals happened, he thinks he's going to be president of the United States. He's never going to serve a day in jail. I think that's Trump's overall goal, which is why he closes his eyes during most of the trial, whether he's sleeping or not.
Okay, So that's the considerations for the case involving the former president. I also want to ask you about something involving the current president, Robert as we've had Joe Biden today exerting executive privilege over recordings from the investigation into his handling of classified documents, his conversation with the special
counsel Robert Herr, Merrit G. Merrick Garland. The Attorney General is about to be held in contempt of Congress over this, and we've seen executive privilege now basically use to make sure that this does not in fact get in the hands of the lawmakers who are asking for it. We have heard a great deal upset on the Republican side about this, including from the House Speaker Mike Johnson. Just take a listen to what he had to say earlier.
The President is using all of his power to suppress their release, and rather than defend our closest ally at war, President Biden is using his authority to defend himself politically.
So arguably, Robert, he is using authority that is his to use should he so choose, but is he setting a dangerous precedent here by not releasing these tapes.
No, not really.
Look, first of all, executive privilege belongs to the office. It doesn't belong to Joe Biden. So when all of Donald Trump and his kind of entourage and his menions saying oh I have executive privilege, their role because only the current holder of the office has that privilege.
The next person who holds that office could decide to release whatever.
They want because the privilege goes with the office. Now, I think there's a good argument to be made. List says, Look, you already got the transcripts of what happened here, and you've got a gratuitous statement from Robert Hurr about oh, you know, he's old, he doesn't remember, which had nothing to do with his findings. Actually, her findings were quite
beneficial to President Biden. It draw the distinction between the two cases, President Biden's case and Donald Trump's case in terms of retaining a document documents, they're very, very different. But then he put in that gratuitous statement, which was simply to give fodder for this argument in the narrative that Joe Biden.
Is not competent to old etc.
Etca utterly useless in terms of what the report was supposed to do in the prosecutorial evaluation. So you know, that's kind of what the privilege is. This president does have it. I assume he decides that there's no value for the American people to have this come out, certainly not of value to him, And of course Speaker Johnson then tries to tie that in has something to do with Israel.
At the end, I assume by his statement that you know, President.
Biden should be more worried about our allies versus this that's a total non second has nothing to do with either one.
But that's kind of the political game I see going on there.
He straddles criminal and constitutional law, which is why he's an important voice for us here. Robert macwurdur, we thank you for being with us, sir, as always on balance of power. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines and Washington the word on this, by the way, transcript versus tape from Jim Jordan. Of course, Judiciary Chair changes in voice inflection and emphasis are what you need that you do not get in a transcript. But he probably will never hear that tape.
Yeah, I guess that's why people watch us on TV and listen to us on radio, don't just read us.
So it's true. Actually, yeah, I hear. This is a good listen still even though we're on camera. We'll have more from our panel coming up next. This is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on EML car Play and then, oh, I don't know where the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts A watch us live on YouTube.
We know the decisions out of Washington often do have the ability to impact financial markets, certain stocks, certain ETFs, like say rescheduling marijuana. I noticed today MJ up nearly six percent after just moments ago. President Biden takes to X. Too many lives have been upended by our failed approach to marijuana. So today the Justice Department is taking the next step to reclassify marijuana from a Schedule one to a Schedule three drug under federal law. It's happening, Joe.
This is a big deal. It is actually happening. We've been talking about this for a very long time, and for the President to do a direct to video direct to cameras statement on this says a lot about the demographics he's trying to appeal to here, i e. Young people. MSOs is the other ETF that's specific to US cannabis companies impacted by this. That's up over eight percent right now. As our buddy Nathan Deane likes to say at Bloomberg Intelligence, the pot stocks have hot sauce on them and they
go crazy in both directions. So let's see if this holds.
Yeah, I guess we will. But to your point, it's not a coincidence in all likelihood, Shoe that this is happening in the middle of an election cycle.
That's right, not to mention the fact that we're actually waiting for news on safe banking. There has been an effort to get this done, largely by Democrats, but some Republicans are on board as well. Let's assemble our panel to get their take on this and all the other stories that we're covering today. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzo join us Bloomberg Politics contributors here on Bloomberg TV and Radio.
We didn't see this in common, guys, but here we are. Genie, it's just another you can talk about for giving student loan debt or some of the other ways that Joe Biden has tried to appeal to younger voters. In this case, does it work and with whom?
You know? I don't see this as changing the trajectory of the election. You know, marijuana legalization is something to your point, young people support in overwhelming numbers, and they long have that said, it doesn't usually rank at the top of their list. Still at the top of their list is the economy. So I think this is important. As you guys are just talking about what this.
Has to do with promises kept, doesn't it Genie promise is kept on the campaign in twenty twenty.
It does have to do with that. I'm still not convinced it will change support. I think much more important is going to be his taking on economic issues that matter to these young people, and they are enormous. So I think this is a positive step, and you're right it does meet a campaign promise, although I just really still don't see it as going all the way to change votes, if you.
Will, well fair enough, Obviously, young people are one demographic in which President Biden is seeing turn away from him. Rick Another is black voters, and he is arguably trying to take some corrective measure in that regard as well. This week, as he to day is meeting with family members in the Brown Bird Versus Board of Education case. He'll be doing another event here in DC at the African American History Museum later this week. He's giving the
commencement address at Morehouse this weekend. Does any of that go far enough? How much work does he still have to do?
Yeah?
Look, I think that we heard from doctor King this week that you got to walk the walk, you got to be there all the time. It's not just an election your issue. I think she's exactly right. I think I can't imagine anybody walking the walk more than Joe Biden has. But again, I mean I have to echo what Genie just said. I mean, this is all about economic situation at young black especially urban males, find themselves
in and it's not good. And they're blaming the Biden administration. Right, they didn't have as many pressures on them economically during the Trump administration. They had other cultural challenges that exacerbated themselves in Trump administration. But for whatever reason, those seem to have you know, fallen by the wayside, and now it's a battle with with Joe Biden over the economic well being of the black community. And these are core Democratic voters. So if if he loses them, uh, he's
really got a problem with with with his base. It's not just swing voters anymore. And and I would say I don't think the cannabis issue plays out really very much. I consider it a feel good issue, right And in other words, it fulfills a promise, you know, it does what you
need to do to sort of get over it. But there are very few young voters, very few of them voters, very few voters who you know are in the Biden coalition who are going to vote for Donald Trump unless he you know, uh legalizes pot.
Right.
That's just that's just not a voter that exists in any poll I've ever seen. So the challenge with black voters. This week, he's showing some leg on it. But the question is can he meet that that that challenge by being able to at least articulate a better economic opportunity for that community in the next four years? And again, where's the plan for the next four years? Economically? All we hear about is getting past tomorrow.
Well, speaking of a feel good issue, how about a presidential pardon, not for those convicted of smoking marijuana, but for Donald Trump. Mitt Rodney, of course, the former standard bearer of the Republican Party, thinks that's exactly what Joe Biden should do and should have already done. He talked about it in an interview. Let's listen.
I think President Biden made an enormous error. He should have fought like crazy to keep this prosecution from going forward. It was a win win for Donald Trump. Had I been President Biden when the Justice Department brought an indictment, so I would have immediately pardoned him. I had to pardon President Trump.
That was in an interview with MSNBC. Genie. What do you think about this? I'm pretty sure Joe Biden was not about to pardon Donald Trump. What would the reaction be?
You know, I'm baffled by this for several reasons, but let's just start with one, which is the fact that while a curdin can reach to the federal cases, those federal cases are not going forward apparently in all likelihood before the campaign, I mean for the election. Rather, the only one that has is the state case. And of course Joe Biden has no say in what the state of New York does or the state of Georgia. So
I'm not quite clear on what Romney's getting there. What I do agree with him on is the fact that Democrats have to fight Donald Trump at the ballot box and not rely on the courts. That said, there's no evidence that Joe Biden has been and parcel of this prosecution of Donald Trump, So I don't know how he stops it other than getting involved, which no president should do.
But one of the other things that Senator Romney said Rick is that this is a win win for Donald Trump. Does he not have a point there that so far the prosecution of the former president has only served him in his campaign for the White House.
Yeah, hindsight is twenty twenty vision. I think you can now look at and say advantage Trump when it comes to at least the current status of his legal problems. If he doesn't win election and he gets convicted and he winds up serving time in prison. I don't think anybody's going to say that. But that's not where we are here. And I would say very clearly that Sara Romney isn't claiming that Joe Biden has anything to do
with these prosecutions. If anything, I think he would say that this proves that no one is above the law. But I think what he's trying to get to is a return to civility, a return to a dialogue that is not so detrimental to our national interests, and that only gets achieved by people making sacrifices. And in this case, the sacrifice would have been the president's to basically reach out with the power that he has to grant a pardon to somebody who highly likely at the time, was
going to be the nominee of the party. And I think there's something about national unity and rising above it and serving causes greater than your own political self interests that would have a nerd greatly to Biden's advantage. But that's not where we are. And that gives the cudgel to Donald Trump to then use his prosecution against Joe Biden,
so that that's just fair, right. I mean, it's his Justice Department that has indicted him while he's a presidential candidate, and you know, arguably he's done things that are wrong that have been nurreed to this he is a court of log going to decide whether he's guilty of these things or not. But does that really advance the national dialogue the way we would normally want to see it.
I doubt if any voter would say, yeah, that's Republican or Democrat alike, that this is a good place where we found ourselves.
It's really interesting, Genie, what's your thought on that? To come back around, could Joe Biden actually turn a few independent voters his wages the the optics of doing what appears to be best for the nation.
I don't think it would change to voters' minds. I think he would probably risk losing as many as he may gain in the middle. And I think, you know what Rick is talking about, I think is an important point. I don't think it would help Joe Biden, in other words, politically at this point in terms of the election, but for the better interest of the public good, it may be something worth considering. But again, this prosecution we're seeing the hush money is a state court. He has got
no reach there. He could take action potentially on the federal case. Is very unusual to do before the man has even been convicted, and nothing would happen before the elections, So you know, I see Senator Romney's point, but I think it's a little bit too late to think about something along those lines.
All right, Geenie Shanzano and Rick Davis, our signature political panel, thank you so much. And it is an important thing to consider here, Joe. While Donald Trump wouldn't be able to pardon himself if he wins reelection in the state cases, just the federal ones. We don't even know if the federal cases will ever move forward, true delayed and definitely at this point.
We have to remind ourselves that we're still waiting for a very important ruling from the Supreme Court on presidential immunity that may or may not lead to a Jack Smith January sixth trial that would be a potential game changer.
Yeah, well, well no, we think by June thirtieth, when it's the end of the term. But they could always kick it back down to a lower court and just elongate this process any further. Will of course keep you updated when we get news. We just don't have it quite yet.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast can just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then roun Otto with a Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
We turn our attention to what's happening in Lower Manhattan once again, cross examination today for Michael Cohen. But it's more the guests of the former president, the latest batch of surrogates who are making news because, frankly, as we talked about with June Grosso, we've heard a lot of this already from Michael Cohen. Remember the Speaker of the House went to the court a couple of days ago. We've seen a number of folks who want to be
vice president Byron Donald's. We saw Governor Doug Bergham up there, Vivek Ramaswami the litigator. Today it's the Freedom Caucus. They're not wearing matching suits, but they are there with matching messages. Matt Gates, Bob Good, Andy Gibbs, Lauren Bobert, all photographed in the courtroom. There, I guess pitch in here on the effort. Lisa Camuso Miller is seeing this photograph. If you're with us on YouTube for the first time, right now,
there they are in court. As Donald Trump spoke earlier with reporters, there's your lineup of course, Republican strategist, former comms director at the Art and C. Great to see you, welcome back. Are you going to court soon?
No?
Thank you?
Okay, this has become a strange field trip that is apparently required. But Joe, what do you want to be in.
If you do, what do you do if you can't be on the campaign trail? You have to bring people to you, Mattie, So it's smart. I mean, we're in uncharted territory, right, I mean, this is like something we've never had to see before. But ordinarily, when you're on the campaign trail, you're sitting down and you're bringing people behind you. You're standing at the podium and they are
standing as your supporters. So I suppose that this is the new normal, right, we are going to see people make the pilgrimage to Lower Manhattan to stand behind the former president.
As long as this thing's going, that's for as long as this goes. This is like the new Codel. You just go on up to New York.
But it's not serious, right, So at some point, I think though there's a the worm turns right, And if you are a member of Congress and you are supposed to be demonstrating action and change for the elected as an elected person for the constituencies, does this Does this come back at you? People say, why are you not home in the district. Why are you not in the capital doing the work that you need to be doing.
So to me, this is something I think they have to be very very careful about because right election season is on and they want to see Congress get work done the voters do.
Anyway, that's the idea. Well, let me ask you about that. A couple of things here before we get to actual business. I mentioned the Speaker of the House was there at the courthouse, and as someone who worked for a former Republican speaker, I can't imagine what went through your mind. That's not just a lawmaker. This is one of the highest ranking elected officials in the United States of America.
And Democrats are pretty upset that he went there and have made clear in some cases that they will not be there to support him if there's another motion to vacate. I know he needs Donald Trump, but it sure seems like he needs Democrats too. What did he just do to himself, he.
Does, but also to Donald Trump has been a really big supporter for this speaker, so that's really more important. He's done everything he can to keep the speaker at least sort of neutral in this fight with the Marjorie Taylor Greens of the world and all of these other people. The president, the former president has said he would prefer that that not happen. And so it all depends on
what the vote is. Right, So Democrats can say whatever they're going to say, but if we come down to a vote that's about supporting our allies overseas or a vote that's about the economy, Democrats are going to have to work with this Congress or this Republican Conference because the margins are so so narrow.
Otherwise, Yeah, wow, he did manage to get the FAA reauthorization done, not to mention all the rest we saw Ukraine funding pass, Israel, a lot of things that we were told were never going to see the light of day. So he's got a little bit of momentum here. But now we're told that that's it, it's the sixteenth of mayor we done for the rest of this Congress.
Well, it sure feels like I mean, I heard you earlier say that this is a messaging game. From this point on, that's precisely what happens in an election year, and so it does really feel that way. But if you're the Speaker and you are looking back at your track record, he's got to be feeling pretty confident about
the fact that he got a lot done. The expectations for this member was so low, and the fact that he got these things completed and got them done, FAA reauthorisation, all of that is real accomplishment that ordinarily no one would have thought would have gotten done. And now Republicans get to ride on that success and use it as they're doing their messaging and moving forward into election day.
So bring us inside the Speaker's office at a moment like this, Mike Johnson, who we're seeing there at the court the other day on YouTube, back in town. You bring your people in in the Speaker's office. What's the conversation when it's they like, okay, well it's strategy mapping. We're going to get this is real thing tonight. What do we do next, mister speaker? How do we deploy the troops? Knowing, as you just said, there's no more policy being made the rest of this.
Year, there's not, but you have to think about what are the messages, right, So they're looking really smartly at what are the topics that people care about, right, They care about the economy. They want to see action, They want it actually more than anything, they want to see change.
They're not happy with the way this administration is handling things right now, so they're going to do everything they can to demonstrate that re electing or electing a larger majority in the Republican Conference actually would be better and more productive for the American people. And so that to me is the kind of messaging that they're going to be considering and working on from now until long after a Memorial Day and into elections.
So you think about how to seize the moment. And you've been through this time of year. We're going into the campaign cycle, right, members, you want the members to go away, don't be in Washington, go run for reelection and raise money for all of us. Are we going to see more runs to the border. Where are the photo ops and the events that carry us through the summer.
Well, smartly, they're probably all looking at their own specific districts. So yes, in those border states. They're going to talk about the border in the states where they are really concerned about the support of the military that they're going to be talking about that. They're going to look very specifically and what it is their own specific issues are that they can talk directly about. And you and I both know this. I mean I did. I didn't make
up the phrase. I mean, It's been around for as long as you and I've been walking on the earth. But it's about the economy more than anything else. And so they're going to talk about what it is this administration has done to not make people will feel better about their own home budgets and their own, you know, sort of their own personal economy. They're also going to be talking about how it is that electing Republicans means success for everyone outside of the Beltway.
This is, of course, all against the backdrop of a presidential race, which is something that you and I talk about a lot. And yesterday the big news was debates. There's a debate about the debates. Now on this day after as so, who was baited? Who got you know, served? Does it help both of these candidates to stand in front of the American people and have an old fashioned debate because a lot of people thought we were beyond that.
I think it hurts both of them. It hurts both of them, I think, I mean, neither one of them. Neither one of them is very good in the debate. Donald Trump looks petulant and Joe Biden is at this point he also the two of them are not great debaters, at least in my sort of personal public affairs. Look is not good. And also like not who watches the debates, right, people like you and me? Right, So I feel like it is also happening in echo chamber.
We're all sort of.
Like more than ever now it's cable news, I know.
And we're all paying attention to whether or not one over the other does better here in the debates. I think that there will be gaffes. I think that it provides each one of them an opportunity to attack the other, so more than anything else, Yes, this is the way
the process has always worked. But the American people are going to be tuning into YouTube and Netflix and all the other places they can because they're really not interested in what these two guys have to say, especially when they're debating one another.
Got to be honest, with you. It would not have surprised me if they had announced a live Netflix debate. Wouldn't that be the modern thing to do?
It would be the modern thing to do. But we're looking at two guys that are like, really, they.
Don't watch Netflix, which is part of the problem. So you're you're prepping Joe Biden. I'm sorry, but you got the job. How do you operate by the rules if the other guy's not going.
To I'd like to see more of that Joe Biden that delivered the State.
Of the Year.
You tell in and ready. What does he have to lose? Joe, Oh, I don't know. You just reminded us of the stakes here.
I mean he does. The President himself does stumble. He's famous for all of the gaffes that he makes. But also too, the people that love and are going to support Joe Biden or with Joe Biden, they'd prefer to see him stand up to Donald Trump and call him on the inaccuracies and the falsehoods that he advances when he's in the debate. But can that happen in real time? I'm not so sure. And so that's what I'd be looking for. I'd be looking for opportunities. I'd be looking
for one liners. I'd be looking for the kinds of things for the speed, for the excuse me for the president to use as ways to go back at Donald Trump without attacking him, but also calling him for some of the inaccuracies and the falsehoods that he does advance when he's on the debate stage.
You support the idea of cutting mics when people go over.
Time, Yes, I do, because I think people like you and me who are consuming these debates want to hear the issues and don't want to hear the back and forth.
We deserve mercy. But isn't that a precedent though I keep bringing this up and people it's I don't nothing matters anymore. But to be cutting off the microphone or the president of the United States, that's a new president.
That would be really difficult.
Yeah.
And if they didn't do it on the debate stage with the candidates, Joe, it's super unlikely that they're going to do it with two I mean, one former president and one sitting president. It is very unlikely. And so it's going to be the kind of thing that's going to be unpalatable. People aren't going to want to watch it.
Wow, yet you and I will.
We's page.
It's smart to go early. That's a win for Biden. Get him up in June. I think it's smart to goas atolls.
It really does. And I also think too that it's smart for him to take on Donald Trump, especially now when he's in the courtroom. So Joe Biden can be perceived to someone who as leading and standing behind the podium at the White House, and he is an elected that is at least sort of perceived to be not in the courtroom defending himself against bad decisions that the
former president potentially possibly may have made. Yes, so the optics are good that that he can then go back to the podium at the White House, stand behind the bully pulpit, and say smart things. Well, Donald Trump is in the courtroom talking about his debate performance while he's also talking about his private performances.
I heard something about Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at Bloomberg dot com