Motion to Vacate

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Welcome to the fastest show in politics. As Kevin McCarthy's Republican critics prepared to vote on a motion to vacate and Democrats are apparently not coming to his defense, this is happening in real time. Either way, we will witness history either way. This goes over the next two hours, and we'll discuss with Congressman Ben Klein, the Republican from Virginia is a member of the Freedom Caucus, and we'll bring his view straight from the Capitol in a moment

Declaring the office of Speaker of the House of Representatives to be vacant. Resolved that the office of Speaker of the House of Representatives is hereby declared to be vacant.

Simple as that we've already heard from the leadership on both sides today. Following a Republican Caucus meeting, Speaker Kevin McCarthy out in front of reporters with his view early today.

If you throw a speaker out that has ninety nine percent of their conference that kept government open and paid the troops, I think we're in a really bad place for how we're going to run Congress Democrats to no I, I personally, I'm not.

Do you need their help to remain in leadership?

No?

I five.

If five Republicans go with Democrats, then I'm out. So it's it's it's weather, probably.

So probably, so, he says, if I vote with Democrats, I'm out. We also heard from Hakim Jeffrey's, the Democratic leader in the House. Very difficult to decipher his language. He says they will work with non extreme members of the Republican conference, something to that extent, but nothing specific. Although we also heard from Congresswoman Promila Jayapaul, of course, head of the UH the progressive caucus in the House. She says, it's not a democratic problem. Don't look at me.

Well, it's definitely a historic day. This motion of vacate hasn't been used in about one hundred years. So it's going to be an interesting day and we'll see how things sort themselves out. It has the potential to resolve itself and continue on the road we're on, or it has the potential to be a very chaotic day and next few days.

You've been known as an ally of Speaker McCarthy. Maybe you can correct me if that's not the way I should put it, even as a member of the Freedom Caucus. What will determine your decision here?

Well, I supported him for Speaker, but I also applauded the reforms that the Freedom Caucus were able to get, including the ability of one member to call a motion to vacate that's being used. But I will say that the vast majority of the Freedom Caucus today have indicated that they are not going to vote to vacate the chair because it's a.

Matter of timing.

What we're in the middle of right now is the

Did you receive assurances from the Speaker in the Republican Caucus meeting this morning that gave you faith in him going forward?

Well, we don't talk about what was discussing conference, but what we will say is that the vast majority of members, the vast majority of Freedom Caucus members, have also decided that when it's a matter of timing when to call the motion of akate, whether to call the motion of a kate now is not the optimal time, since in the middle of these appropriations bills, trying to get the most conservative bills to the floor possible, if what we end up with are five moderates teaming up with Democrats,

Is urging to vacate the chair.

You have the potential for not just the same situation, or not just chaotic situation, but a much worse situation than we have now.

Well, okay, so it's difficult to tell if Speaker McCarthy has the votes, Congressman, though, does see have yours?

Well, I'm still considering, but I will say that as a matter of timing and as a member of the Appropriation's Committee, my goal, my primary goal is putting these conservative appropriations bills on the floor and getting them through. You know, we had three of four bills passed last week. We secured our border with our Homeland Security bill, gave our troops pay raises with our Defense bill, made sure

New speaker, well without invading your conference meeting earlier. Congressman, what do you want to hear from Kevin McCarthy. Is it a pledge to bring these single issue spending bills to the floor to avoid another cr or something altogether different.

Well, we did not want to shut down, but I am not a fan of the status quo. I'm not a fan of the current forty five day CR. I voted against it because I don't support the Pelosi spending that's going on right now, and I don't support the lack of a border solution.

And so what we had before that, what I voted for, was.

A continuing resolution for thirty days that did include border security, that did include cuts to spending, and that was something that we could have demonstrated the American people that were moving in a different direction that we're not just treading water, and that's why maintaining the status quo is not acceptable.

Well, I'm trying my best to understand you, and it sounds like we're making a little progress here, Congressman. If there was an assurance to have border security funding in either another CR or a piece of legislation that gets to the floor to help fund the government for a longer term, if you saw that coupled with spending cuts, you'd be behind Kevin McCarthy as speaker.

Well, I think that that was the first continuing resolution that Kevin supported. He put it out there, it was ultimately defeated, and we ended up with where we are forty five days of the Pelosi spending levels put forward.

My hope is that we would avoid that moving forward.

The more that Kevin can reassure us that that is not what he is going to do, that he is going to push for border security, which he has, then that's going to definitely go a long way toward reassuring me that we're.

On the right track.

Okay, that's a start here at least what happens in forty five days. We just talked about the framing of this continuing resolution. How are you looking at the next couple of weeks here, Congressman. Did we simply prolong a shutdown to the middle of November or can progress be made?

Progress ken and is being made.

What we saw from the Majority Leader, Steve Scalise was a calendar of how we're going to get the rest of these twelve appropriations bills through in October, and if that's interrupted by a motion of akate that's successful, then that calendar goes out the window and we're not able to get it done, and then we're facing another shutdown.

Well, i'll tell you one of the issues, the potential problems illuminated by Matt Gates and some other Republicans, some members of your own Freedom Caucus Congressman, has been the potential for Kevin McCarthy to cut a deal with Democrats. Some see this as an example of that with the continuing resolution, is that your biggest worry now that he turns away from you and toward Hakim Jeffries.

Well, he has indicated he's not willing to make any deals with Hakeem Jefferies, and Hakeem Jefferies has indicated that he wants to take McCarthy out, that he wants to remove McCarthy a speaker. So he's instructed all of his Democrats to.

Vote for the motion of a Kate.

So if it's Matt Gates and all of the Democrats and one or two others, then.

That's where we're going to end up.

But at this point, my focus, and the Speaker's focus, and the overwhelming majority of the conference's focus is on getting these conservative appropriations bills through standing up to a Democrat Senate with their appropriations process. They haven't passed a single appropriations bill and ultimately standing up to Joe Biden and removing this woken weaponized government from these appropriations bills that we're able to do through the House.

You're on the Committee on Appropriations. You're also on the Budget Committee. Congressman. We can talk freedom Caucus all day long, but these are very important committees for the very issue that we're talking about when it comes to funding the government.

Well, one of the things that this city understands is power and leverage. And when the House passes it's a appropriations bills and the Senate doesn't pass any and has to come to the table on how to address spending, we are at an advantage. So we want to use that advantage. We want to keep pressing on these appropriations bills. We can win on the policy and on the spending if we just press ahead, and that's what we're planning.

To do this October, and it is a question of.

Whether now is the right time to interrupt this process with a motion to vacate.

Lastly, Congressmen, we understand that the motion to table will be up soon. It is expected to fail. Will Kevin McCarthy be Speaker by the end of the week.

Well, that remains to be seen. But my hope is that we keep on our track. We've got two appropriations bills up this week, and if we can do those two, the Natural Resources, Energy and Water Ledge Branch. We've got a lot on our plate and we need to keep our eye on focused on delivering for the American people.

It's great to have you with us today. Ben Klein, Republican from Virginia's sixth district, a member of the Freedom Caucus, and a real example of the conversations that are happening behind closed doors right now with decisions that have yet to be made. You hear a lot about uncharted territory. Yeah, this is it. We don't even know how this show is going to end right now, never mind how the day is going to end for Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Let's

Yeah, hard to tell.

I mean, I think what you're interview just now with Congressman Klein indicated when he said that Hakim Jefferies has instructed his Democratic members to vote for the vacate that was news to me. I've been hearing Democrats all day long talking to the press about I'm thinking about it.

I'm not thinking about it.

I like it.

I don't. There's a problem with the moderates.

And I'll be honest, I think this is all up to the Democrats right now, because it does sound like there are four or five, maybe six Republicans who have made a conclusion that they're going to vote to vacate, and that's enough to take him out of the chair if the Democrats support that motion.

I love your thoughts on this, Genie, because we did hear from Hakim Jeffries a bit earlier today. Listen to how careful the language was that he used coming from a Democratic Caucus meeting. He did not take a single question.

Courage are Republican colleagues who claim to be more traditional to break from the extremists in the chaos, in the dysfunction in the extremist We are ready willing and able to work together with our Republican colleagues, but it is on them to join us to move to Congress and the country forward.

He's basically saying it's on them, period. It sounds like, Genie, if you kind of read between the lines here. But my goodness, Hackem Jeffries, maybe we can't figure out here. But I couldn't figure out what ben Klein thought about this after a ten minute conversation. How about you?

Yeah, that was just a fascinating conversation because you asked him pretty repeatedly, you know where he stood. Was he going to support the speaker? And he would not, you know, give you a definitive answer, which suggests to me that what we keep hearing on the Republican side, you know, there's five to seven to ten, maybe upwards of you know,

No, absolutely quite the contrary. This is from Jake Sherman at punch Bowl, just posted on Twitter. I still call it Twitter. A dear colleague from Hakim Jeffries. Listen to this Rick and Jennie quote. Given their unwillingness to break from MAGA extremism in an authentic and comprehensive manner, House Democratic leadership will vote yes on the pending Republican motion

This is not a Democratic problem. This is a Republican problem. They supposedly have the majority. They should be able to pick their own speaker. Our speaker is HACKEM Jeffries. It always has been, it was for fifteen rounds, it will continue to be.

So does that mean I've hear that just nobody trusts Kevin McCarthy.

He trust Kevin McCarthy. Nobody trust Kevin McCarthy, and why should we? He has broken his commitment over and over again.

This is amazing. It's the same script as Matt Gates. Nobody trusts Kevin McCarthy. Rick. When you add all of this information, it doesn't look great for him, does it.

Well.

Representative Ji Paul is the Democratic version of Matt Gay's and so I mean, I think the two go together. They're both of the extremes of either party, and sometimes when you stretch that circle around the extremes to touch look, I mean, this is pretty news breaking that Hakeim Jeffries, as Ben Klein just said, has instructed his caucus to support the.

Motion of vacate.

Now that depends upon how many want to stay in the room or how many are willing to vote present. This could go down to the wire. I think what we're watching here is a very close race.

Amazing stuff. It's happening before our eyes, and we have Rick Davis and gd Shanzano to walk us through it.

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Remarkable day here in Washington as we wait to learn the fate of Kevin McCarthy as the Speaker of the House. The motion to vacate has been filed, and we'll see a few things happen. There's a motion to table that motion to vacate that we're going to walk through shortly, and we've got an eye on the House floor for you for when that vote actually comes up. We could be in a world in which Kevin McCarthy is no

Look, I think Matt has planned this all along. It didn't matter what we transpired. You know, he would have done it if we were in shutdown or not. I firmly believe it's the right decision to keep government open, to make sure our military is still paid, our border agents are still paid. And if that makes a challenge based upon whether I should be speaker, I'll take that fight.

So your calling is bluff.

Yeah, yeah, I'm calling his bluff. And here we are. Let's find out what happens. We talked to Ben Klein, member of the Freedom Caucus, Republican from Virginia, at the top of the hour. He voted for Kevin McCarthy as speaker and would not tell us where he would vote today.

I think it's critical. And we heard over the weekend that Nancy Pelosi was quietly urging Hakeim Jeffries not to go in and help save or the Democrats as a whole, save Kevin McCarthy, but she said in the end she would, of course follow the speaker. The speaker has now spoken and now has the Speaker Emeritus, Nancy Pelosi, in very strong language, and I think she really reflects what we're

But Rick, this cuts both ways. Doesn't it for Democrats to turn like this? I appreciate the politics behind this, and maybe Nancy Pelosi is right the majority should pick the speaker, but Democrats get nothing done without a Speaker of the House in this case, and we've got a potential shut down what forty six days away? If my count is right here, does this potentially work against democratic priorities or I'm just I'm in another world here where the institution matters.

Yeah, I think that she's making the same point you are. I think the difference might be timing. I think they're used to doing things when they need to quickly, like they did on the keeping the government open. So all that happened literally in the course of two hours, after weeks of built up. If if Kevin McCarthy is ousted as Speaker today, you may have a new speaker tomorrow. I mean, it doesn't take long to call for speaker's race, right Literally, almost instantaneous with his removal.

Would be a vote to put a new Speaker in.

And maybe they're making a calculation that a Stephen Scalise or a Tom Emmer or Patrick McHenry. McHenry, maybe these guys would be better. Maybe there's more resistance at that point to the to the to the Freedom Caucus and the MAGA team that they like to talk about. So you know, there are a lot of calculations being made. I do think Genie's right, you know, like I think

Truly incredible. We asked Jim Jordan last evening on Bloomberg. He said, I don't want to be speaker, and I just wonder if any of the names that Rick just mentioned Jeannie would ever stand in front of this train, because boy, this is not for the faint of heart here obviously. And by the way, nothing's actually keeping Kevin McCarthy from running again, right well.

That's right.

And you know, I think one thing we forget in all of this is the speaker is not just the party leader. This is a constitutional requirement Article one, Section two. The speaker is second in line to the presidency. We have to have a speaker. It could take a long time to get there. Certainly, Kevin McCarthy could run again, you know. I know it's hard to imagine anybody wanting this job. It is a very very powerful position. So I think if the chips are down, somebody may step forward.

I know.

The name we heard over the weekend was Tom Emmer, but he has said he is firmly and Kevin McCarthy's camp.

Well, so is there a Machiavellian world genie in which Democrats fire or don't defend Kevin McCarthy, they let him get fired and just let the House go to hell for the next year, that this is actually about the election and retaking the majority.

At this point, I think it is possible. I certainly hope that doesn't happen. I think Democrats are right to say this is a republican issue they need to resolve it. But also to your earlier point, you know, we do need a functioning con and a functioning government. And earlier today, when Hakem Jeffries was talking in one of his interviews, he did make the case that now is time to change the House rules. You don't want to let one to five seven members hold up the business of the people,

Well that was a product of a protracted speaker's battle, right, Rick, do you see that maybe being a good thing that emerges from this and that's the change in rules. They got to change this rule.

It's a stupid rule and the only reason that was cut this way was, you know, the speaker McCarthy's desperate need for votes. I would remind everybody that the rule has changed quite a bit over time. I mean even Pelosi was under a tighter rule on this her first term is speaker. But yeah, they ought to change it. I mean, this is what he ought to be cutting deals with the Democrats to do is say, the minute this race is over, okay, say you don't get involved

True enough, nineteen ten Speaker Joseph Cannon. We see lawmakers like Ben Klein earlier joining us from the Canon House office building. That's the rotunda where you see all the lawmakers do in the TV shows named for Speaker Joseph Kennon faced an unsuccessful motion to vacate that he introduced himself to prove a point. The Republican from Illinois live to see another day here as speaker, we'll see about Kevin McCarthy.

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I'm glad to say that we have lined up some important voices to help us through this. We were plenty to speak with. As I mentioned, Congresswoman Chrissy Houlihan, the Democrat from Pennsylvania, is on the floor right now as part of this process. We hope that we will connect with her, but this is the game that we're in today.

It's going to be an interesting next few minutes here. I mean the fact that Pelosi is not here to vote to aust McCarthy, which I think is kind of an interesting take here that she's missing votes. I just saw online that she's you know, racing back from the airport, but doesn't look like she's going to make it. So it's certainly something that you know, as part of this issue.

You could make the argument more that no matter what happens today, whether McCarthy's ousted or whether his job is preserved, that this could make budget negotiations even more difficult as we walk into November and another potential shutdown.

How do you see it, Well, it does because what Kevin McCarthy did over the weekend, like him or not, you know, trust him or not, he got the job done and kept our government open because a government shutdown would have just been handing it to the Democrats to I mean it with every right to be you know, lamenting what Republicans failed to do, which is the job that is House of rosentaas you have to fund the government.

Unfortunately, it's entirely possible. We understand that Nancy Pelosi may not make this vote. It's not a long ride from the airport, but I can assure you the traffic today is miserable. I want to ask you about your experience though with Speaker Bayner, who knew about emotion to vacate. Believe it was Congresome Meadows who brought that to the floor. It wasn't privileged and it was never voted on, but you were part of that office when that feeling was

It's also very frustrating because people are just trying to do their jobs and fight the bigger fight and what this in house fighting, This in conference fighting is super frustrated, especially because it's done publicly.

Kind of you know, you want to keep your fights in the family. That's both sides. We want to try and do as much as possible.

But when you have someone like a mac Gates who is really just thinking about himself and only himself, that's almost impossible to deal with. And again, you know, mac Gates is loving this moment because he's getting this attention and he loves that there's only a five seat majority.

He needs that over Kevin McCarthy. That's how he's holding the whole conference hostage.

So for me, I remember, obviously I have certain feelings about Mark Meadows, because I do. Again, you see right through it. You see that it's an attention seeking effort. It's to appease a small portion of what they think is their base.

Mark meadows. Again, if anyone.

Read John Bayner's book, came groveling in, crying on his knees. And that's just to just tell you everything about what they're really doing on the public facing aspect and then what they are saying behind closed doors. I don't think there's any love lost between Macgate's and Kevin McCarthy.

But again, this is just Matt.

Gate's trying to, you know, seck up all the oxygen and get in front of the cameras. And in that sense he's succeeding. But in doing the job that he was allowed to do, he is miserably failing.

Wow, think of the scene that work Willspie just described for us. So that's another way of saying as well, relationships are being redefined, lines are being drawn. If Kevin McCarthy survives this, what happens to somebody like Matt Gates.

He will continue to Unfortunately for us, I mean for the Republica Party, he's going to continue to do this. He's going to bring up this motion to vacate because he has the ability to do so with the rules that were set in January, and to continue to fundraise off of it, which is the end of the day.

That's really what he is doing.

He's been fundraising off of it, and this weekend he did a media blitz on the Sunday shows and fundraised off of that.

So he's just campaigning off of.

It, partially to build up his own profile, his own brand, but also to account for any impending legal bills that will be coming his way when he has this ethics complaint investigation that's been renewed, and he'll need a kind of account for that. So it's unfortunately the relationship is not going to repair itself. This is more just about the prerogatives of MATC. Gates versus Kevin McCarthy. And I

Boy.

That's something else. It looks like this vote is being delayed here. It's interesting that, Yeah, Matt Gates needs five votes, right, and there are five Democrats missing, So this actually could be put on the table for a moment and we'll let you know how that goes. Just another reminder, mora of how thin this margin is, right, Yeah, and we.

Saw that, you know in twenty fifteen when it was brought up. You know, there was a there's a funeral happening in New York, and so the numbers were different because there were a handful of members of the New York delegation, both Republicans and Democrats, that were up in New York and so they weren't available for the vote. So the number game is really important, especially when you have a thin majority, as Kevin McCarthy does in the

What's the plan, and there isn't one. Right.

He is going into this knowing that there isn't a plan for if he were to succeed. He has no idea what would happen next. And that's what's scary to me is you have people in Congress who don't actually want Congress to work. That's a problem and people should be really alarmed by that.

Huh Maura. Thank you, Mora Gillespie. It's great to have you back a Republican Strategists found where Bluestack Strategies worked with Speaker John Bayner and Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Thanks for listening to the Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. And you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.