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I'm Joe Matthew and Washington Ledger with us here on Balance of Power.
There's still an Iranian.
Proxy group that is on the attack against Israel. It's an important story that we want to get to here and one that hits the terminal with the headline Israel hits back at Hoothy's in Yemen after their slow escalation.
This is something that may not have been on your radar over the holiday, but Houthis have been shelling Israel from two thousand kilometers away and Israel is now responding airstrikes that we can confirm hit rebel targets in the capital of Sana, including the airport, in a power station, and it's the capital of Yemen. And something that we want to talk about with former Ambassador James Jeffrey back with us here on the broadcast. Former US Ambassador to
Iraq and Turkey. Not sure of the Wilson Center Middle East Program. Mister ambassador, it's great to see you here. Is this just noise or the start of something new?
Joe, thanks for having me on. And this is a continuation of what has been a region wide walk between Irean and its various proxies and allies. The h group you can call them, Hamas, Isbela, the Hoodies against Israel, a reluctant but extremely important supporter the United States, and bits and pieces of other Arab states and Europeans, particularly against the Hoodies. The last man standing, so to speak, right now, is the Hoodies. Irean has lost its missile deterrent.
The Israelis handle it well and struck back. Hod Bela has excuse me, I sued for a sea spia Hamas. It's all that wiped out. But the Israelis and the international community still is having to deal with the Hoodies, who, besides shelling Israel with these long range ballistic missiles, are also shutting down international sea traffic and the rid Sea. This has a significant impact on everything.
Well, we've talked about the impacts on shipping quite a bit here, Ambassador, and I know that there were greater concerns a couple of months ago. As attention returns to Hoothi's now the impact on shipping and of course the attacks against Israel. Is this going to be the last piece to falk and Israel cut off this group from Iran.
The Hoodies have been very, very hard to shut down. The United States tried half heartedly, basically by intercepting missiles fight at ships, but that wasn't successful in the Red Sea and it certainly hasn't deterred them. Israel can take out capabilities, but as long as the Hoodies can get additional supplies from Iran, particularly missile components, now they can.
Keep this up.
Israel has to weigh a decision whether to hold Iran responsible for what one of its proxies is doing. I think that Israel will eventually decide if the Hoodies don't shut this thing down, to go after Iran.
Ambassador.
I want to ask you about what's happening in Ukraine, where it was a deadly Christmas for some Ukrainians. Russia directed more than seventy crews in ballistic missiles and one hundred strike drones against the country in Christmas Day, strikes on the company's the country's energy infrastructure. We've seen this, of course over the past couple of winters. Vlatimer Putin
is no stranger to using cold as a weapon. What are we going to see between now and January twentieth, Donald Trump takes office in Ukraine.
Between now and then, we'll see the Russians inushing forward and I underline inching forward. On the ground, they're not doing all of that well, although they have plat superior human and material resources and continuing to strike sensitive parts of the Ukrainian infrastructure such as electricity, But none of this is going to change the outcome of the war.
It is basically a stealmate. It is calling out for some kind of negotiation to try to freeze this conflict and bring this part of the world back to something like normal. So I think that some of what you're seeing is last minute pushing back and forth. The Russians believe that Donald Trump is going to push hard for some kind of settlement.
He sure says he will.
In that world, do you freeze the map where it is now? Does Ukraine lose the ground permanently that it has lost to Russia in this war?
The best example that I can cite historic is the Korean War. We ended it with a stalemate in nineteen fifty three. The stillmate is still holding. South Korea never gave up its claim to those parts of Korea that are held by now the Kim Yonglan North Korean communist regime legally, but in practical terms thereon trying to take it back, and the American security commitment is only to those parts of Korea that the South Korean government controls. I imagine whatever we get in the end will begin
with something like that. There'll be other issues concerning Russia and it's near abroad, NATO and how the basic major pillars of security in Europe are rearranged. But at the center of it will have to be some settlement in Ukraine that basically will freeze the conflict.
There's been some disturbing reports that I'm sure you have heard about this Azerbaijan Airlines aircraft that crashed in Kazakhstan. Reports suggest that Russia Russia anti aircraft fire may have been the reason ambassador why that airplane went down. They've looked at damage to the aircraft, They've looked at footage of the crash. If this ends up being true, what should happen to Russia.
Well, the problem is we have condemned Russia in so many ways. We have imposed so many sanctions on Russia. A Malaysian airplane full of holiday travelers from the Netherlands was shot down in twenty fourteen by it turns out Russian anti aircraft. This is nothing new. What's particularly troubling is it looks like after the plane was hit, it tried to make an emergency landing on Russian territory, and it was told to overfly the Caspian Sea to land
in Kazakhstan. It actually almost made it, but clearly the intent was for it to crash at sea without any evidence.
What should be the US posture on this.
Well, again, the US has already condemned Russia from here to Sunday for its invasion of Ukraine and many other actions. This is simply another example of the behavior that everyone, including the new Trump administration, will have to recognize is unacceptable and needs to have a very strong response. Right now, we have a response, which is to stop the Russians and Ukraine. You saw we basically stopped the Russians in Syria and they're now all but out.
Ambassador Jeffrey, we're hearing Donald Trump talk about the Panama Canal. He wants the US to have control over the canal once again, I guess, unless a new deal could be made with Panama. He wants to take Greenland into the Fold, which we've been hearing about as well. And I know that both of these might be with regard to Chinese
influence around the globe. But as someone who actually worked as a diplomat in the first Trump administration, you were Special Representative for Syria Engagement, Special Envoy to the Global Coalition to Defeat isis what is it like to be a diplomat under a Trump administration without always knowing what the go forward is going to be when you get on an airplane to go talk with someone abroad.
It has its charms and it has its disadvantages as well. One thing is that people take Donald Trump very seriously. They saw what happened to cost some solimione.
You know.
Believe me, however much Americans may may not have responded, dictate us out of that picture of a bleeding Trump pumping his fist into the sky after he was shot, and they see it as somebody they don't want to mess with that's actually good if you're covering out diplomatic instructions. The problem is the instructions often change, but the underlying
policies usually do not that I'm wandering stressed. Trump tries to get headlines, he tries to shock people, he tries to shake things up, but in the end, we were carrying out policies not all of that different from those that the Biden administration continued to its credit.
How about that in our remaining moment, then do you take him seriously on Greenland and Panama?
I take seriously that he wants a farm or a sort of United States that will push transactionally for its advantage around the world, and everybody needs to be on notice for that. And there's nothing like threatening to seize Panama or seize Greenland to get people unnoticed. But no, neither of these things are going to happen.
From someone who knows James Jeffrey is great to see you, sir. I hope you had a great Christmas and happy New Year to you. The former Ambassador James Jeffrey, former US Ambassador to Iraq in Turkey. He's now chair of the Wilson Center Middle East Program.
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Sean caston the Democratic Congressman from Illinois shares part of Chicago. He was with us at the DNC and Congressman, it's great to see you here. I hope you had a great holiday. Welcome back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. I have a lot of questions for you because you've been a busy guy lately with regard to government funding, with regard to the Ethics Committee report in the back gates. But I want to start with you on this issue
that we're talking about now. When you go to Chicago dot gov, your town says the city is shouldered the responsibility of caring for more than forty nine thousand immigrants new arrivals seeking asylum. Many flown to Chicago from states like Texas. What will happen to them when Donald Trump takes office?
Well, it's important to understand where these folks come from. There were you know there were a surge of immigrants when Greg Abbott was bussing people up from Texas, but if you look nationally in chicago's no different. The overwhelming majority of the undocumented folks in our country are not people who snuck across the border, no matter how many how much we might like to sort of fall for that lazy stereotype. They're people who came here legally and
overstate a visa. Maybe it's a student who studied here, Maybe they fell in love while they were studying here, it had a child. They're people who had temporary work visas and then the temporary work visas weren't renewed in many cases the prior guestment. Maybe they're less so in Chicago, but certainly downstate Illinois. They're farm workers so we depend on to grow our food. But our programs have not
provided support for these people. So to tell those people, you know, the average undocumented person in this country has been here for twelve years, and again most of that is visa overstays. To tell these people who are contributing to America, who are paying taxes, who in many cases may be married or living with American citizens that were going to break up your family. I mean, you could
not be more anti family than that. And it's creating a lot of nervousness all across the country, not just in Chicago.
Well, so what will be Democrats posture on the issue of Dreamers? Then you're describing some of them in this conversation. Congress been knowing that Republicans were elected in part Donald Trump elected in part due to his approach to the border. Dreamers weren't even mentioned in the Senate deal on the border that never, of course, became law earlier this year, one that Donald Trump did not want to see passed. Will they be included in this debate in the new Congress?
Well, let me speak to this from the perspective of the House. Yes, Donald Trump won the election. The House can seats. We picked up two seats in the last election. And so you've got a lot of people on my side of the aisle who are pretty contident that that people liked what we were selling. And we are in a rapidly growing economy. I have yet to meet an employer in the last three years who wasn't saying we
have a real problem finding qualified people. The CBO said that part of the reason why inflation in the United States came down so much faster than other countries is because we have had a growth in net immigration to this country. So if you want inflation to be down, if you want to make sure that employers can find workers, we need to make sure that we have a humane, robust immigration system that continues to attract the best and brightest.
And what I think all of us are telling our Republican colleagues is to go read Ronald Reagan's farewell speech. You said that I've always seen America is a great, shining city on a hill, and if it must have walls, make sure it has doors and windows so that those with the means and ability can come inside. Yeah, that's the message we need to remind people of because that's the only thing that has ever really made America great.
This is a conversation that will clearly continue in the new Congress, as will be the one about government funding. Here, you barely got this done to avoid a Christmas shutdown, Congressman. It was, of course, late Friday, the Continuing Resolution was passed to fund the government through the fourteenth of March. What happens on March fifteenth, when this resolution has expired.
You know, I joked with one of my Republican colleagues in the elevator. He said, he said, what are we doing here today? And I said, well, that can doesn't kick itself down the road. That's why we had to
be here today. And it's sort of funny, but it's also not funny, right because the over the last two years of Republican control in Congress, they've never really managed to put together an appropriations package other than one where the terms were dictated by the Democrats, either through a continuing resolution that the Democrats carried across the line, or through the deal that mcarthy negotiated with Biden that essentially locked in the funding levels we had set in the
last term with some minor adjustments. And so the question will be, with a much thinner Republican majority, can they get online between their sort of extreme right wing that would would happily shut the government down and wants to massively cut government services and they're they're more moderate and in many cases more numerous reasonable wing who has pose those tensions, and that fight has bedeviled the Republican caucus
for this whole term. I think you'll continue to find that Democrats are willing to work constructively with those Republicans on a bipartisan basis as we have, but we'll have to see what they bring together. There's you know, I like to remind people that there were two fist fights in the House this last term. They all involved Republicans, and trying to figure out how they're going to get along together is going to be is going to be a challenge for this next term, at least in the House.
Well, when we consider what was left out, and you know, I know a lot of Democrats were heartened to see the request for emergency funding for hurricane relief put back in, but we didn't see year round sale of E fifteen gasoline, the crackdown on PBMs that we heard about, also restrictions
on investments in China. Congressmen, some Democrats like Rosa de Laurel, like Jim McGovern of Massachusetts said that's the real reason Elon Musk opposed this because of the amount of business that he does in China through Tesla and other entities.
Do you agree.
There's a lot of smoke there, you know, whether there's fire. I think we need to do some more investigating, but that you know, I serve on the Financial Services Committee, and Patrick Mchennery and Andy Barr were really great sponsors figuring out how to manage that outbound investment. There's a real concern on the Republican side of the aisle with what we are doing to send US technology to our adversaries and how are we controlling that, especially technology that
has national security implications. And yes, there is huge concern that mister Musk weighed in so heavily against that, and I would you know, I would hope that the fact that there was such a bipartisan support for that provision will also lead to some bipartisan oversight support to ask some questions understand what's going on there. But yes, it
is a it's concerning. We spend so much time in classified and unclassified settings trying to track where US generated IP is going, and I'd rather not get in a fight with the White House about whether we should give that intellectual property to our adversaries.
Wow.
Well, I'll tell you last time you were with us, Congressman, you were about to go to the floor of the House with the privileged resolution to force the release of the Ethics Committee report into Now former Congressman Matt Gates. That report has been released. It came out Monday morning, and it is quite a salacious read. I can't say some of this stuff even on the air. As I read from the report, Gates is now threatening to show up next week to claim the seat for which he
was elected. If that happens, and I don't know if you're hearing anything about this congressman, should he be sworn in.
Gates doesn't have that option. Gates formally submitted his notice not to run in one hundred and nineteenth Congress we call Ron DeSantis initiated the special election so that they can go through and hold that. The deadline to file to run that election has passed and they're printing ballots. So I mean, Matt Gates is trying to get on the news given as you mentioned, the salacious details in
that report. If I were Matt Gates issues, I would be trying to keep a lower profile and not have people looking in to find out that you know, he had you know, he paid for sex with seventeen year old girls. So if people want to talk about that, we'll talk about that. But he does not have a way to become a member of the next Congress. He just has a way to talk and get on television.
You must be glad that it's been released.
Now that it's public.
I mean, I think glad is probably the wrong word. I'm glad that the Ethics Committee stood up for ethics in Congress. I'm glad that, you know, we're hearing that at least two Republicans on the Ethics Committe voted to release that. And it's not because we're trying to, you know, hurt one of our former colleagues. It's because the House has to comport itself in an ethical way that attracts the respect of the American people, regardless of how they vote.
And when we hold ourselves accountable, when we hold members accountable for these sorts of actions, we base sickly send a message to the American people that we care about this institution and we love this institution. And that's the important thing of releasing this group.
It's great to have you today, Congressman. I hope you had a great holiday. Merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah to all of your constituents in the Chicago area.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon Eastern on APO car Play and then Roud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
We wanted to spend some time with Adam Hodge to talk about the legacy left and potentially work that remains Hereies, managing director at Bully Pulpit International, former official in the Biden White House.
Adam, it's great to see you. I hope you had a great Christmas. I did have a good. Thanks for joining us.
I'm a bit jealous of Biden. I'm born and raised in Saint Croix.
Was Oh my god, jealous.
My sisters are good.
Where did you go home? I should should have.
This is a a tradition for them, much like going to Nantucket on Thanksgiving. This tradition for the Bidens. What's the conversation at the family table this weekend.
I gotta imagine it's a bit of nostalgia, thinking like this is the last trip that they'll do as president. Down there, it's a reminder if they do it every year, just that the presidency is coming to an end.
I think, look there, certainly it's a bittersweet end.
Joe Biden ran for reelection at the beginning because he wanted to continue to serve. I think he felt he had more gas in the tank, that is, more things that he wanted to get done. Obviously didn't turn out that way, but I think he'll walk away with a bit of pride.
In what he did accomplish.
I mean some of the big things that they got done, whether it's the American Recovery Act, digging the country out of the pandemic, Inflation Production Act, the infrastructure Law, like the Chips and Science Act, those are hallmark legislation that will be tough to unravel, although you've heard the Trump administration think about doing some of that. But he'll hold his head high on some of those things, and also the things they've done to strengthen America's position around the world.
He came to the defense of Ukraine, and while we saw the attacks over the holiday period Russia targeting specifically the energy sector, which.
Is I mean just barbaric.
Donald Trump, I mean, has threatened to walk away from some of those commitments, but Joe Biden can say, Look, NATO is bigger than it was when I took office. More countries are meeting the two percent GDP commitment to their own defense. A lot of that money actually is coming to buy American goods and American defense suppliers and getting shipped back to Europe. So he's got a strong record to hang his hat on. I think I hope he takes that away from the office, and I think
you're right. It will be a bittersweet moment to watch Donald Trump take the of office, but he'll be there because he believes in democracy and the transfer of power.
A lot to talk about Trump proofing as he heads out of the White House. Here to what extent can Joe Biden protect elements of the IRA? For instance, you mentioned in Structure and Chips will seem to be pretty popular on a bipartisan level. The IRA is the one that we hear about. Donald Trump wants to reverse many of the components of this loss, so.
Does Mike Johnson.
Well, but I think the key thing that we'll look at in the new Congress is they're going to try to extend the Trump tax cuts seventeen and we're talking of a four trillion dollar price tag by independent estimates, So they're going to look for other pay fors wherever they can find them. And some of the clean energy
tax credits. You're talking three hundred and fifty billion dollars that are potentially a threat as they look for ways to fund the other tax cuts for corporations or wealthy individuals.
So that's certainly.
Something that I think people should be watching. Investors should be clearly keeping a close track on that because it's clearly.
Going to be on the table.
The thing that I'm conscious of, though, the Republican majority.
Is so slim one maybe two.
After some of the nominees get confirmed, and there are a lot of these projects that are in some of their districts that are and would be at threat if they cut some of that at funding. So it's going to be a really tough battle for them to kind of get through, and it's going to come thick and fast, especially with the ceiling also on.
The table early in the new cast.
It's going to be wild as we consider the future here with Adam Hodge and things that could have gone differently. You know, there's a big post mortem that happens after a loss like this. Even though he technically didn't lose to Donald Trump, he dropped out of the race. Do you believe this came down to inflation. If Joe Biden managed to lick inflation, if he managed to get prices lower, would it have been different.
It's hard not take a stock of the broader geopolitical move I mean, incumbents, especially center left incumbents around the world coming out of the pandemic and the inflation and the supply chain crutch that.
You see a global trend, a global trend.
I mean the only incumbents across the world in Poland and Spain right and was just one example. We also had the lowest inflation rate of any major economy in the world. I mean, we had one of the more successful efforts to drive down inflation in the country, but there was definitely a palpable sense in the country that prices were too high, and it hurt incumbents around the world.
So I think regardless of what Joe Biden tried to do, and they did a lot to get inflation from nine percent down to two percent two and a half percent, when come election day, that's you know, was still too much for people and it's a memory. But I think the question for the Trump administration coming in or do the policies sort of reverse some of that trend that we've seen, right, tariffs have a real threat to drive
up inflation. You know, the bond prices are going to be looking at the cost of borrowing if the government takes on a whole lot more debt to pay for the tax cuts. That's there's all kinds of costs that could add to more a greater burden on the American taxpayer. So that's a real thing I think to be watching as we go in the new year, and Republicans are going to have to try to find a way to
deal with some of those challenges, that's for sure. Democrats have been clear they're going to fight for the things that we believe, and I think there's an opportunity to unify around some of the opposition to those Trump policies in the new Congress.
You've heard in this post mortem as well, a lot of Republican critics who accused Democrats of covering up Joe Biden's mental state, his mental acuity, his physical state.
And I just wonder where you are.
On this now that some time has passed since he dropped out and since the election. When you see Joe Biden, now you saw him, I think just last week as part of the Christmas celebration at the White House. Do you feel differently about that now? Do you think that he in fact did age precipitously through the year to be in a different place physically or mentally than he was when he.
Said he was ready for another four years.
I mean, there's no question that he's aged over the last couple of years.
That's not really debatable.
It's not like the president, though, was hiding he was president of the United States.
Publicans.
No, but he got a pool that's following everywhere he goes. Every time he stepped on and off air Force One had. You know, people looked at that. I mean, he would show up to events and speak and you saw him. It wasn't like he disappeared from the public eye, right. So I think it's a bit of Republicans playing games with him.
And but I think you don't buy the cover up. No, I mean, he's the president.
He's out in public, right, I mean, it's not like there's a cover up. And I think the thing I kept hearing when I was in the White House from people who come out of meetings, it was how hard he was on them, pushing him for them for answers or asking asking detailed, probing questions about issues. And you know, there's no question that physically getting moving around, he's had some struggles. But I think everybody can, like what I heard from people who were still in the White House recently,
he's still asking those same tough questions. He's still probing and pushing them around.
So I don't think.
I don't buy this argument that there was some sort of cover up around his.
Abilities to service.
And nobody, the Vice President who's in all those meetings with him, said the same. That's what I believes he gonna do.
Now, when you finish a job like this, he tend to go dark for a while, right, He's gonna try to relax, get some things done.
Uh, he's an older man.
I don't know how much time he has to enjoy retire.
What does retirement look like for joke by everybody.
Who said, you know, especially his kids and grandkids say like he burns up the phone call and then ipect.
That's gonna continue.
He's gonna he's gonna spend some time with his grandkids, like see his family. I mean, that's he's earned that, right. Maybe he'll write a book about his you know, his presidency and in the time, and I think there will be some insights.
Does he speak politically and I'm sure he will.
He will find opportunities and moments to weigh. And he saw Barack Obama after he left, after even Trump took office, he took some time, you know. And I think is the right thing to do to let the next generation of.
Leaders step up.
So, whether that's Keem, Jeffries and you know Schumer in the in the Senate, other Democrats around the country, giving them an opportunity to show and be a present a compelling vision for what the Democratic Party should be.
I think is the right thing to do.
Joe Biden is not going to be president again, that we should let the next generation of leaders could have take over, and King Jeffres in the House will be front and center in that fight and have a chance to present a unified, different message. And I think Democrats can take some stock. Trump's going to give us some opportunities, whether it's on immigration you were talking about last segment,
whether it's on the tax cuts. There's gonna be a whole lot of issues where Democrats will have an opportunity to unify. And I think The key thing is how we pick and choose our battles and show the areas where we're fighting for working class people and less privileged and set up that clear contrast with President Trump. That to me seems like where you'll see Democrats try to go in the new Congress.
We're out of time, but Democrats start running for the midterms starting next week, right.
They will, certainly, But I think Democrats have to also think about where we go, not just the next cycle, but the next three cycles. We have to regain an ability to win seats across the country.
That has to be paramount fascinating.
Great to see you, Adam Hodge, Managing Director, Bully Pulpit International. Great to spend some time post holiday with you. Enjoy the rest of them in Happy New Year to you, of course, with us here in Washington, d C.
Adam Hodge.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and Enron Oto with the Bloomberg Business ad. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
As I mentioned, Trump two point zero the new administration January twentieth, but one that is already well in the works. Here there's news today, in fact, and it's the big talker in town here at the front page of the Washington Post about the Borders Are, which, of course is a position that does not require Senate confirmation because it's
not an official cabinet role. Tom Holman, as we told you weeks ago, in that role, will have a lot to do with the initial stages of the Trump administration's approach to immigration, and news today that family detention will be back on the table. Holman telling the Washington Post that ICE will look to hold parents with children in soft sided tent structures similar to those used by the Border Patrol.
When they have immigration surges.
Authorities will once more put families with children in detention centers.
Says the Borders Are.
And that's where we start our conversation with our signature panel. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzeno on the Thursday edition. She, of course, Democratic analyst and political science professor at Iona University. Rick Davis, Republican strategist and partner at Stone Court Capital.
This may not sound surprising to you. Rick it would be consistent with what we saw in the first Trump administration, but counter to some of the more recent remarks he's made about working with Democrats, for instance, when it comes to Dreamers and some of the other outreach that we've heard. How do you think this will play out here with an official who's not in fact confirmed by the Senate, but could start working immediately when the president is sworn in.
Yeah, well, first of all, we know Donald Trump loves to work through zurs, right, and Fulman is just a good example of someone who won't have any you know, sort of official role in a cabinet agency, but use the power of the White House, which will be all powerful in this administration, to dictate policy. Of course, we see other people like Doug Burgham or a governor who's going to be the Interior or secretary, but his real role is going to be the energies are so he's
tacked that on. And of course nobody can discount Elon Musk, who in essence is the budgets are right and he will he will oversee the DOGE program. So these are all extra curricular government officials who will have amazing amount of power. And if you believe what Donald Trump has said, as you mentioned, Joe, then you got to believe there's going to be more of a comprehensive approach to immigration reform.
And I think that's what a lot of people expect to see happening in this first turn of the first Congress, now one hundred and nineteenth Congress, and that is a big bill that's going to incorporate a lot of rules changes, a lot of budgetary impact to really solidify Donald Trump's stamp on immigration policy. Things he knew he wanted to do and did before that got rejected in the Biden administration, and then new things that he wished he'd done that
he just didn't get done in his first administration. And there will be room for a conversation about dreamers and other Democratic priorities in order to build a coalition to get that bill through.
Jennie Joe Biden ended Family to ten in twenty twenty one. What does this headline mean today?
You know, we've heard Tom Holman just over the last few days commenting on this horrific act of violence, this murder of this homeless woman in the New York City subway. She was sleeping, an illegal immigrant doused her and set her on fire, killing her. And Tom Holman spoke out about that, as did many people, of the horror of that, and said that this is because the Biden administration has not been tough enough on the border and he is
going to correct that with Donald Trump. And that is what you know, seventy four seventy five million people voted for Donald Trump. For the problem when he moves to these kinds of policies that the Post is reporting on today is the question, does Homan and Donald Trump do they overread Donald Trump's mandate? You know, these seventy four million, seventy five million voted for security at the border, for
a sound immigration policy. But even Donald Trump himself on Meet the Press the other day said he knows how horrific some of this video and some of these pictures will be when you are dealing children and families. And that is going to be the big test here. Do this, you know, accepting the seventeen million who voted in the primary for him, do the other you know, fifty million people stick with him or does is this a bridge
too far? And that's something I think we're going to have to wait and see.
On well onto mass deportations here home and telling the post Rick that the government will not hesitate. He says, to deport parents who are in the country illegally, even if they have young US born children. Interesting quote, he said, here's the issue. Quote you knew you were in the country illegally and chose to have a child, so you put your family in that position unquote. Does that resonate with American voters? Is that how Americans feel?
I think it's going to get tricky in this category. Americans are relying compassionate, and I think if these cases and they will go to court, courts will also look on it in a more compassionate way and look on it based on the judicial history. And the judicial history of this is that these are citizens in the United States and they turn they turn a blind eye to the immigration rules when it comes to a minor who's an American citizen needing their parents.
So we'll see.
My suspicion is based on what Donald Trump has said repeatedly that he's going to go after the hardened criminals. These aren't the ones leaving behind naturalized citizens. They're the ones who are either one already serving time, have been captured or to the police have been after for some time,
so rounding them up will be no easy task. But if that is a top priority, he will engenerate great support amongst the American public for rounding these gang members up and these criminal hardened criminals and getting out of our country. After that, I would suspect you're going to get into cases such as what you just described, which is, you know, families who came to the country illegally gave birth to a naturalized citizen, and that's when it really
gets complicated. But I think the American public is about compassion, not about persecution, and I think you're going to see a bit of a change in the process at that point.
Talk to us about this, genie. Do you believe that you just mentioned it yourself. Donald Trump knows what the images will do, he knows how this will play in the news. But you've got Tom Holman saying, Hey, you knew you were here illegally, you chose to have a child. That's on you.
Yeah. I think we probably see an EO on birthrate citizenship that then goes into the courts, and the courts will have to make that determination. That's why the Biden administration, the Democrats are working so furiously to get these nominees to the federal bench through so much of this fight is going to be in the courts. But Donald Trump knows better than anybody the images will play out on
social media on television. When you talk about a young child who is here innocently and there is either a separation from family parents otherwise, or they are deported to a place they've never been and not known, you are going to see a furious reaction from the American public. And that again is where this question of does Donald Trump overread his mandate? The mandate is for security. The mandate is to make sure we have a sound immigration policy. It is not to do harm to innocent people who
are here through whatever means. And that's where we heard Donald Trump quite frankly talking about DACA. There has got to be a way. And then of course there is the economic aspect of this doing all of this billions of dollars. Where is that money coming from? He has not talked about that yet. So all of that makes the idea that they're going to go that far that much more difficult for me.
Please, we're still going to have a lot to figure out in the new year with Genie Shanzo and Rick Davis.
Delighted to have you both with us.
Thank you, as always our signature panel here on Balance of Power. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify.
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