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As the President tries to swing attention to domestic affairs, here with an event yesterday yeared towards the battle against inflation. This is interesting because Israel is not helping him in the polls, his foreign policy is not certainly his economic policies or not. Here's the President yesterday at the White House.
Well, this past week, as America has gathered around their own kitchen tables for Thanksgiving dinner, that was our goal to get him a little more breathing room, and together we made progress. You know, from Turkey to air travel to tank of gas costs went down. They went down out of people making a lot of money. That doesn't matter a whole lot, because the costs are relatively small compared to wealthy incomes. In fact, as a share of n is this nice Giving dinner was the fourth cheapest
ever on record. I want you'all know that.
But of course, as we've told you here as well, it was still twenty five percent more than it was in twenty nineteen, and that is why we find the headline here at IPSOS, Biden's problem is an inflation problem. It's just out today and Cliff Young, the president of Public Affairs at IPSOS, joins us to talk about it. Cliff, it's great to have you, Thanks for joining. This is
obviously not a new problem for Joe Biden. But you're looking at an approval number in this poll south of forty percent, which is pretty close to the lowest that we have seen for him. How does this keep getting worse?
It's inflation, and it's sort of the dragon of inflation. It affects people Americans in general or thoroughly at this point, especially the younger, the less educated Blacks and Hispanic Americans, and they cite the economy and inflation as the number one issue.
You would think at some point, though, if inflation is easy following an historic series of interest rate hikes that have created, of course, a whole different problem for consumers if you look at mortgage rates, if you look at credit cards. Right now, we've seen an easing and inflation, but his numbers don't seem to be responding to that. Is there a lag effect with this economic condition?
Yeah, first and foremost, there is a lag effect in when it comes to economics, public opinion typically is a lagging indicator, not a leading indicator. But the other issue is that it's not about rates, Joe. It's about the level of prices. And as you were saying before, things are still more expensive than a few years ago, and Americans feel the pinch, they can't make ends meet. When you look at specific demographics, like younger Americans, they feel
that especially. So so, yes, there's a lag effect on the one hand, and it's about price levels on the other.
President talking about supply chain yesterday at this event, and they had, of all people, the Secretary of Homeland Security making media rounds to try to make the point. I know they had Pee Boodha Jeddge, the Transportation Secretary around the Thanksgiving holiday and everybody gets their turn, but supply chain, Cliff, And maybe you've pulled this is not exactly a household conversation, a kitchen table conversation. Things are either more expensive or
they're not. Is the White House just reaching for the wrong narrative.
Yeah, they're trying to connect with Americans. They're trying to explain things, but in a context of that is difficult. At this point, Americans are not ready to listen right Obviously, supply chain. Talking about the supply chain is super abstract and the average American is not going to understand what it is specifically. But more importantly, people are not willing to listen right now because they're not feeling.
You're right in your piece. What can be done? Need to be patient. The President, I guess, has time on his side here. There is another year for these numbers to improve before peace people vote. Defend the policy agenda, though, jumps off the page here. If he's going to get above forty percent before the election, how does he do that If it's not supply chain?
Is it?
I feel your pain? What's the approach from the commander?
Now?
I think he needs to be patient. He's going to have to wait. This inflationary inertia is going to have to work itself out in public opinion, and it will. It typically does. And he hasn't doubled in on his message, a message of economic growth, a message of economic vitality. Talk about those programs that he's like initiated over the last few years. Maybe today people are not willing to listen, But that doesn't mean half a year, a year from now, they won't be.
The time to drop the Bidenomics thing, get rid of this brand.
Yeah, their branding has been a suboptimal at best. They need to go and talk about the benefits and the specific you know, reality that people are living in. That's the best way to connect with with with anyone, including the American opulus.
For spending time with Cliff Young from ipso's Cliff, I know you had run numbers on the president's foreign policy as well, and we're seeing a lot of pushback really from progressives and in some cases the same people who are being singled out in your new poll on inflation. Here, it's in many cases people with lower incomes, it's many in many cases people of color who this president needs
to get re elected. How much of a problem is that when you add the layer of foreign policy here with what's happening specifically between Israel and Hamas.
Yeah, foreign policy is an important issue, it's not a determinate issue when it comes to the election. Really, once again, if you put inflation versus foreign policy, inflation wins out, and that's you know, that's tinging a more negative way. If we look at Ukraine as well, there are weak numbers there. The American populace in general when it comes to foreign policy is more is more isolationist, more inward
looking than let's say a generation or two a go. Again, the real problem with the numbers is an economic problem, more specifically an inflation problem.
Sure, when you add you know what some people see as funding violent wars or endless wars, I guess that can have a corrosive effect, Cliff, But I you know, there's no doubt about this being an economic issue and something that voters are going to be weighing their decisions on here. I just I wonder if there's anything more than be patient. If you're essentially saying the president needs to wait for things to get better.
Yeah, it's the economic context. It's difficult. Obviously, they need to double down on their message. They need to need to be on message. What are those things that they are doing to improve people's lives, whether that be on the economic front, or on the healthcare front, or transportation or whatever it might be infrastructure as an example. They need to but they need to be patient because the
context is more negative at this point. What we know ultimately is that as inflation is guides, the numbers probably will tick back up, not to the levels that they were before. It never improves as much as as it declines. But yeah, it's it's a moment to be patient. And one of the points that I was making when it comes to patients is that the Democrats shouldn't overreact. Indeed, a sitting president like Biden, even with the numbers he has, has better than a fifty to fifty chance of winning
the next election. Maybe it's not eighty percent, but at least fifty percent, fifty to fifty. Let's say a successor, and a successor could be Newsome as an example, or Harris as another another one only has about a sixty ten percent chance at the present approval ratings. So once again, be patient, Democrats, be patient, This too will pass. Economic context, the negative economic content, and ultimately this is you know, the explanation as to Biden's numbers today.
That's great Cliff Young's message to the Biden reelection team, have patients, this too shall pass. How about in the Republican primary fields, Cliff, I know that's not what you're looking at in these data, but Nicki Haley is sure getting a lot of talk, larger crowds, certainly an uptick in pulling in New Hampshire if not Iowa, and I wonder your feel here is we're starting to get close enough that the whole it's too early narrative doesn't really
seem to be working any longer. Is Donald Trump going to run the board in these early states or not?
Maybe not in the first couple of states because they're very controlled elections Iowa and New Hampshire, but definitely public opinion. More specifically, the Republican base is a Trump base. Really, Nicky Haley is feeling a vacuum left by Dessants and others. There's no real change. Is changing the names, you're not changing the levels. Ultimately, what we know is that the indictments really didn't have an electoral effect. If anything, they
strengthened Trump and they're really baked into the numbers right now. Obviously, if there's a conviction at one point, could that sway things perhaps in the general election. But I really think that the favorite, if not the absolute favorite, is Trump at this point, and everything else is kind of rearranging chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
Oh man, that's just depressing if you're in the race for a second. Cliff, it's good to see you. I appreciate the time today. Come back and talk to us again on Bloomberg, Cliff Young President Public Affairs at ipso's
constantly running numbers as we are here at Bloomberg. We'll be talking in another week or two about our next dive on polling from the campaign trail, but I do want to stick with this bead on inflation and the findings from IPSOS as we layer that on top of a very complicated time for this president, canceling his trip this week to COP twenty eight to try to deal with what's happening in the war between Israel and Hamas.
And to that end, we assemble our panel with us today Genie Shanzeno, of course, Democratic analyst, Bloomberg politic contributor, joined by Republican strategist Lisa Camuso Miller, former RNC communications director and host of the Friday Reporter podcast. It's great to see both of you here. Genie, your thoughts on what IPSOS is telling us, because it's not the first time. In fact, it's getting to be a little bit of a broken record. Inflation is Joe Biden's problem, and he's
out beating the drum on supply chain. If you're trying to get Joe Biden reelected here, do you take Cliff Young's advice and just wait it out.
You know, they have no choice but to wait it out. But in the meantime, I think there needs to be recognition on they and the part of the administration as to why Americans are in such a sour mood. And they truly are, to Cliff's point and to ipsos's data and all the data we've talked about. And you look at these eighteen to thirty four year olds, This inflation is devastating to their lives. Just look at the issue of anybody who wants a mortgage or wants to rent.
This disproportionately in young people who didn't have the benefit of getting into the system and buying or renting years ago, when they may have got for buyers a lower interest rate. So now they're stuck with this seven to eight percent. It's devastating to them. So then you flip that over and people say, do you think your children will be better off than you? You're getting numbers like two out of ten Americans only say their children will be better.
Seventy three percent say we're in the bad direction, misdirection and part of the American public. And so you look at those numbers and what the administration has to do forcefully is to show this it needs to be countered versus what the Republicans are proposing, things like cutting Social Security, cutting medicare, cutting Medicaid, giving tax breaks to the wealthy. Yes, we are not perfect, but juxtapose that to the alternative. That alternative is going to be the story for them.
They haven't been able to make it yet, and if they don't make it, it's all going to be about them, and those numbers are never going to be as good as they need them to be.
For Joe Biden, it certainly reminds us of how important timing is here. You can be the smartest campaign in the world, but his fortunes are going to lie in the trajectory of the economy, whether or not he can affect it. Whatever the lag effect is of FED interest rate hikes, whether we're in a recession or not, the second half of next year, whether he'll be able to take credit for beating inflation, It's pretty tough to plan around that, isn't.
It absolutely is Joe and the thing. I like what Jeanie said about offering them some alternative, but also too, I think the electorate and what we're hearing in the IPSOS poll in a lot of other places that we're seeing sentiment is that people feel unstable. And that's sort of that goes back to your question about whether or not foreign excuse me, foreign policy plays a role in
the election. I don't necessarily think that people go to the polls based on what's happening overseas, but I do think that that the unrest oversees the unrest in the economy and the unrest in the government is making people feel really concerned about who their leaders are and wanting perhaps a better change in something that's going to give them more stability.
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Thirty, then brings, of course, the matter of funding for Israel, which has Congress in a bit of a standoff here between the House the Senate, between even Republicans and other Republicans in the House. The new speaker, though, Mike Johnson, says he has spoken with Chuck Schumer, remembering that they wanted to do Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan, the border and at this point getting that done by the end of the year seems incredibly unlikely. But here's the new Speaker, Mike Johnson.
Israel is a top priority for the United States, and supporting our ally there is critical. It's one of the first things we did. In fact, we passed the bipartisan Israel support package out of the House a while ago, right not long after I took the gabble about a month ago. It's been sitting in the Senate and on Chuck Schumer's desk, and so we are encouraging him to get that done.
We are encouraging him to get that done, knowing that that House bill can't pass the Senate, and knowing that this really apparently is going to come down to a conversation about border security. Certainly the Ukraine portion will and if it's all going to move together. There's going to have to be a deal on the border. Spent some time on this yesterday, very unclear how that would actually happen, and so we reassemble our panel. Genie Schanzano was with us,
along with Lisa Camuso Miller. An important event last evening, Lisa, Senator Tammy Duckworth pulled together a meeting you probably saw this to bring in officials from the IDF, including an Israeli major general, sat them down with Democratic senators who have been very critical of Israel's handling of the war here in the civilian deaths in Gaza. It took place in a room just off the Senate floor, and apparently
it was a very frank conversation. According to Brian Shatz, is that the kind of activity that will accelerate potentially funding for Israel or is this all going to lead to a deal potentially or not on the border, And that's what this is in fact, writing on.
Well, I think we have to do everything we can to get this done, Joe, I think, I mean your point is so right. The end of the year is upon us, It's happening, and they have got to get this done. There is no time to wait. I'm old enough to remember that Congress used to do things. Congress and the Senate, when they work together, they used to do comprehensive. But comprehensive doesn't seem to work anymore. So I think we need to learn how to walk in
chew gum. We need to make sure that we're supporting Israel. We need to make sure that we're introducing people that maybe aren't in favor of giving them more funding to understand that's smart on the Senator's part to bring them in and to have a conversation about what's happening on the ground. There's a lot of people that have forgotten that long relationship that we have with Israel and how we have to be supportive of them over and over again,
regardless of what they need. They're our biggest ally in the Middle East. We need to continue to do everything we can to support them. But we also need to move quickly in Congress, and we need to stop waiting around and fighting over the airwaves and over the social media platforms. We need to get back to work, and that's something that I think everyone would like to see happen as quickly as possible.
Geini. We talked about this idea of tying Israel funding to humanitarian international humanitarian law. Bernie Sanders out with an aped in the New York Times, underscoring that he writes, I do not support simply giving fourteen billion dollars to Israel without any conditions at all. And he's at odds with the Foreign Relations Committee Chair Ben Cardon on this. Not a surprise, I guess to see IDF officials sitting down with senators last evening. Can they change minds like Bernie Sanders.
Yeah, not a surprise, But you know, really think about the idea that you send over high level officials at a time when Israel, probably in its history, is in the midst of a crisis, and they take the time to come over and to speak to Democratic senators about funding. I think that shows us how important the debate going on in Congress is, not just in the US, but in Israel. I think Duckworth I agree with Lisa it was the right move. They do need to reassure not
just Democratic progressives but the American public overall. Because you know, I'm sitting here in New York. The Manhattan Bridge was closed over the holidays due to pro Palestinian protesters. We at a school in New York where there was a violent riot because a teacher went to a pro Israeli demonstration. This is the kind of outpouring on the ground we are seeing. This is what progressive Democrats and many others
our responding to. And so I think even beyond these democrats in the Senate and Congress people overall, I think we have an obligation to let the American public know and be reassured that these billions of dollars in aid are not going to go to a use in any country, let alone Israel. That's in violation of law. Now that said, isn't that the reality of all the aid we give? And if it's not, because you know, a lot of people scratch their head and say, are you telling me
we're getting money in violation of international law? No we are not. So that's another part of this story. So, yes, this is critically important, but a lot of this needs to reach beyond Congress and to the ground in the US where we're seeing this demonstration because it is public money we're talking about.
Well, I do find it incredible the criticism from both sides of the Aisle actually that the president is hearing. Lisa, and I wonder your thoughts. I just read the line from Bernie Sanders and others on the progressive left are very upset with Joe Biden's support of a war that they think has not been careful enough at a strategy on behalf of the Israelis that has not been careful enough to protect civilian lives. We've seen letters written from lawmakers.
We've even seen one lawmaker centered on the House floor for what she said about it. Then there's Senator Ted Cruz, for instance, and other Republicans who are bashing Joe Biden for what they say is coddling for lack of a better term Iran, and not being strong enough on Israel. Here's Ted Cruz last evening on Fox News. Listen to this.
Joe Biden has been the most anti Israel president the United States has ever had. There you go from the very beginning of the Biden administration. This administration has undermined the government of Israel at every step. They've done so systematically, they've done so at a granular level.
How do you rationalize the criticism from both sides? Lisa, and does it suggest that the President might be doing something right.
You know, I'm reflecting on that, but also on something that Genie said, and I think it just keeps coming back to the fact that we're so divided in this country that we find ourselves, yes, in a place where if both sides are unhappy, then something good is probably
happening here. And that's the difficulty, right, is that when we're communicating out to our various groups of people that are listening to us, we're communicating to a Republican audience on Fox News, and we're contributing to a Democratic office audience. If we're listening to Bernie Sanders, and both sides of the aisle are really unhappy about what's happening over there. But the truth is that the US has to follow policy and follow history, and follow the experts and do
what's right. So to me, if that's the case, if the rs are mad and the d's are mad, then the President is probably somewhere in the right spot. But you know, look, I'm not a foreign policy expert. What I do know is that unrest in the Middle East
makes everyone in the US feel uncomfortable. And that's where we come back to the fact that the White House and the administration has a responsibility to communicate out as much as possible through the voice of the President more than from the voices of other people that maybe audiences
aren't listening to. And that's where I think the White Houses really need a misstep here and not letting the President talk a little bit more freely and more openly in front of an audience about what it is the White House and the administration has chosen to do so far in this case.
Just a minute to the news here, Jenny. If the President has Bernie Sanders on one shoulder and Ted Cruz on the other, what does he do in the middle.
Oh, I think he runs away at that point, Joe. That's part of the thing. Who you want on either shoulder. But the reality is is that the White House feels very good about where they are vis a vis this issue. We've got the Secretary of State visiting Israel for the third time. The President has been in close touch with all Israeli officials, and he, as he always says, watch me, we've gotten hostages home, including at least three Americans, but many more. In this pause, he did get a pause.
More humanitarian aid go in a lot more to do, arguably, but they really do feel that he has had more success in the last fifty days than anybody could have predicted in a very very difficult situation. And so, you know, let Ted Cruz go on Fox and say whatever he wants. The reality is watch what has happened on the ground, and it is, you know, the Biden administration that has
made this happen. They've been able to work with Qatar and others in making this happen, and they do need to be tough on around, no question, but they have seen results in the last several weeks and they're happy about that, with a lot more to do. Certainly, not a success story at this point, but a good start to where we need to be.
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The truce is intact and the Secretary of State is on his way. Another important development Atsony Blinket, making I believe the third trip since October seventh, and it follows this meeting last night in the Senate I'm fascinated by this and I want to ask the ambassador about it. Tammy Duckworth put this together with senior officials from the IDF in a room with Democratic senators who've been critical
of the way Israel has been conducting the war. They crossed the ocean in the middle of a war to talk to senators here in Washington about this funding battle. And that's where we start our conversation with the ambassador, former US Ambassador to Morocco, and you've heard him with us here on sound on Mark Ginsburg. It's great to see you, welcome back. Is that the right way to do this, to have military officials in a room with politicians here in Washington? Does that make you feel comfortable?
And might it unlock a funding deal?
Indeed, that's the expectation at a will. But the issue here is that there has been increasing calls by more progressive members of the Senate as well as in a House, to condition paid Israel AID on extending a ceasefire into
a more durable ceasefire. So obviously Israel Israel's government is deeply concerned about the fact because all of these calls for a ceasefire, which would in addition condition, additional assistance to Israel is going to put a damper on Israel's ability to have the supported needs from the Biden administration to continue to eradicate Hamas's leadership. And how you thread that needle between extending a ceasefire and having Hamas decimated is really one of the unanswered questions.
Well, ambassador to that exact point, if you're the Israeli military right now, how long strategically can you allow this truth to extend before it really works against the objective you are trying to achieve.
Well, that's of course the greatest question that anyone going to ask right now, and I mean that without patronizing uk Kayley, but how does Israel eradicate forty five thousand hardcore Hamas fighters that are now either sheltered in their tunnels in the northern part of the Strip or have taken refuge behind the human shields of Gazans who have fled to the south. And how do you do that in a way that doesn't cause what we would call
in a military collateral damage to civilians. I mean, that's a question that the Israeli military I don't think has a good answer to.
Well, So what's it going to look like then, assuming this truth comes to an end tomorrow, days or even weeks from now, what's it going to look like when that first salvo is fired into Gaza, when the first tanks roll in, the first explosions. The pr battle is going to start getting a lot more difficult for Benjamin Netanyahu, will it not.
It will not only be difficult for now, but it will be far more difficult for the Biden administration to continue to provide unbridled support for Israel, even though it's spokesman, including the National Security Advisor, just said the Sunday that Israel has every right to do what is necessary to decimate Amas as a threat to Israel. But let's try
to put this a bit more in some perspective. Bill Burns, the CIA director, as in Cutter, right now to try to negotiate an extension of the ceasefire with Israeli counterpart as well as with the Egyptians. Why in order to facilitate more aid. Why Because the Israelis don't have a good end game that they can share with the United States. And Number three hamas to all what we've been able to see so far, has only lost several thousand out of the forty five thousand hard core terrorists that are
part of the organization and its collateral terrorist organizations in Gaza. Well, to your.
Point on the conversations that were happening in Doha, it's the US involved here and Egypt and cutter. Do any of them have enough leverage over either the Israelis or Hamas to push for a continued ceasefire or ultimately is this going to be up to these two groups. I just wonder how those kind of conversations are going with the other countries that are involved here.
Well, let's just assume for the record that HAMAS wants as many cease fire extensions as possible and dribble out as few hostages as possible. On the contrary, Israel wants its hostages back and is prepared probably to see if Hamas will release more hostages in a way that gives the Israeli public what it wants, which is at least an end to the hostage side of this equation. And I don't think that the Israeli military is sitting anxious to pull a trigger again at this point until they're
able to figure out an end strategy. Once any cease fire or durable extension of the current pauses comes to an end. We're playing, in effect, almost an hourly game here.
Ambassador Kayley asked you about Hamasa's ability to rebuild and regroup in the middle of a pause like this. How about, on the other side, how long can the IDF reasonably remain crouched if days or even weeks go by and still be ready.
I'm not worried about the IDF being ready. The incentive for the IDF and the one hundred and twenty thousand reservists have been called up is they're itching to get back into the fight. I'm not worried about. What I'm more concerned about is the impact on Israel's economy. Israel was humming along until October seventh, and when you pull that many people out of the economy, that begins to have a significant impact on Israel's budget and Israel's I guess,
domestic morale. But let's also not forget that there's another front in the North that is sapping Israel's energy as well. And as long as the conflict with Gaza continues, Israel faces an enormous challenge in the North, which, after all, is the real threat for a broader conflict, and that is between hesbal Iran on the way in the United States and Israel on the other.
Ambassador, I'm glad you brought that up, because, as Joe mentioned, Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln is going to make another trip to the region, and in addition to expressing US support for Israel, in addition to pushing for greater humanitarian relief, we do expect that a lot of his effort is going to be focused on preventing this conflict from expanding any further. How great do you think the risk is right now of this bag coming wider regionally?
I think it's already pretty wide. The fact is that although Hesbella and Israel have an effect respected what is taking place in Gaza, and so there's been somewhat of a truce between Hesbelah and Israel, Hesbella's leader has made it very clear that as long as there are hostilities that are continuing in Gaza, Hesbela will continue to do what it can to divert idf attention away to in effect make Israel's life and the Israeli population's life in
the North miserable, as well as Israel doing the same for southern Lebanon. You have a massive, massive dislocation now on both sides of the border of inhabitants that have lived on both sides of the border as a result of the fear factor that it's at work that at any hour, any day, there can be a significant resumption of hostilities between Israel on the one hand and Hesbal on the other.
Well, we've talked about Anthony Blincoln, you mentioned Bill Burns. How about Joe Biden? Does he go back?
I don't think so at this point in time. I think the President at this point in time, has made it very clear that he too is trying to figure out how does he maintain this outright support that is in his heart and soul for Israel's need to protect itself against the pressure and his understandable loan concern that he has for the fate of Gosens who are victimized
by Hamas's terrorist imprisonment of of citizens inside Gaza. You can't hold all Guysans responsible for Hamas, notwithstanding the fact that they did elect Hamas in the first place.
Well, that again comes back to the humanitarian concern. We just got a headline out from the Pentagon that the US has airlifted fifty four thousand pounds of relief supplies for Gaza, And yet we've heard consistently in recent days, Ambassador that it's nowhere near enough. How close are we to an inflection point where the tide of public sentiment turns in a more material way, given the extent of the humanitarian crisis we are seeing in Gaza.
Listen, I think in the end that most Americans, and by far the poll show that support Israel's right to defend itself. And I don't think that, notwithstanding all of the demonstrations that they've taken place, and government publicity here and the expressions of concern on the White House staff, that Americans are prepared to throw in the tunnel. Congress so far has seemed willing to give bipartisan support to
Israel and not condition aid. There's always going to be a few fringe senators, whether they be Bernie Sanders or Chris Murphy or even my senator from Maryland, Chris van Holland, oh seem to be a far more concerned. But I ask you the following question, if they're more concerned than the Palestinians on the West Bank. What does that say a lot to you? It says a lot to.
Me when it gets your reflections before you leave us Ambassador about what's happening today in Atlanta for folks who don't know, you started your career essentially as a diplomat in the Carter administration. And we've got the President and First Lady in Atlanta today, We've got every living First Lady gathering as well to say farewell. It's Roslynd Carter,
and I'm wondering what we should know. What people should know about the legacy that the Carter administration left in terms of establishing ties in the Middle East.
Well, I worked on this issue almost for three and a half years during the Carter administration as Deputy Advisor
to the President for Middle East Policy. I spoke had the privilege of speaking with Rosalind and the President when I was ambassad of Morocco, and they came and stayed with me to reflect on this period of time, because he was truly dedicated to trying to forge more than just a peace between Egypt and Israel and the Camp David negotiations, but he came across the tame same type of a government in Israel that currently exists right now, a right wing government led by Monoch and Began, who
was determined to prevent President Carter from fulfilling his aspirations to bring about a first stage autonomy for Palestinians, which we all believed in, and then secondly to help produce a Palestinian two state solutions with Israel. The right wing government in Israel would have nothing of it, and as a result, there was an enormous amount of friction to develop between what essentially should have been closer ties between President Carter and Israel because of his enduring commitment to
peace between Israel and Egypt. Thanks of course to Presidents of.
Dot It's good to have you back, Ambassador. He's now president of Coalition for a Safer Web. Maybe we'll talk cybersecurity next time, because that's actually a pretty big part of all of this. Mark Ginsburg, the former US Ambassador to Morocco. Thanks for listening to the sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already had Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern time at Bloomberg dot com