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It's three up and three down for Jim Jordan. Welcome to the fastest show in politics, as the Republican from Ohio fails by his widest margin yet in the race
for Speaker of the House. We could be in for a long weekend, and we'll bring you up to date in just a moment with the latest from Capitol Hill, and we'll have a conversation with Congressman Dan Kilde, the Democrat is fresh off the floor in the middle of all this and with us here on sound On for his take on this day after President Biden's Oval Office address on Israel and Ukraine. We have analysis from our signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano
are with us for the hour. So let's get to it now. After a third round of voting, it just wrapped up a short time ago. Jim Jordan falls short again.
That's by surname.
A speaker has not been elected pursuing to Clause twelve A of Rule one, the Chair declares the House and recess subject with the call of the Chair.
There you have it, Like I said, three up and three down. This time he did lose more votes than he has yet, having started with twenty than it was twenty two, now it's twenty five. The question is will he continue, and it sure sounds like it, having been asked in a news conference this morning, if he plans to grind through the weekend.
Here's Jim Well, y'all said that we're going to live between the first one and the second vote. You all said we're going to lose ten to fifteen votes. We stayed the same. We picked up a few, we lost a few. I think the ones we lost can come back. So look, there's been multiple rounds of votes for speaker before.
We all know that.
I just know that we need to get a speaker as soon as possible so we can get to work for the American people.
All right, let's bring in Meghan Scully, Bloomberg Congress team leader, who is been an awfully busy person these past couple of days. Megan, it's good to see you, and thanks for making time for us here on sound on. Is that what we're thinking now, that we're going to keep grinding through the next three four days, however long it takes, he pointed in that answer to Kevin McCarthy, of course took fifteen rounds.
Yes, So right now, Republicans are huddling in a large room in the Capital behind closed doors, trying to figure out exactly the answer to that question.
What's next.
Do we give Jim Jordan another go? Do we stick in through the weekend. There's some serious concerns members are airing, particularly Republican members, that they aren't going to have lawmakers here this weekend, that many have family and other obligations and they want to get out of here, especially if it means staying in for more failed rounds of Jim Jordan.
Does that mean we're going to have attendance issues this weekend that could potentially change the math for him.
Yeah, yeah, So one Republican I was just talking to reporters outside the House chamber suggested that now I don't think this would happen. I think that Patrick McHenry, the acting Speaker, is probably too he's too politically astute for this. But if Republicans didn't show up in numbers. There's certainly the possibility that the Democratic leader Hakim Jeffries could become Speaker of the House. Again, I don't think that's going to happen. They would not hold a vote if they
felt like they had such an attendance issue. But that's just kind of encapsulates the absurdity of where we are right now.
Well, gosh, I've been hearing that word from time to time. Megan, thank you. It's great to see you, and we appreciate your analysis here on this Friday that saw a third failed vote for Jim Jordan. And we bring in the congressman from Michigan, Dan Kildey. The Democrat, of course, is with us because he's not in that Republican conference meeting, and it's good to see you. Representative kilde Welcome back to Bloomberg. Can you just for starters, give us a sense of what it was like to be on the
floor for this. I heard a lot of Democrats start laughing when Kevin McCarthy introduced Jim Jordan as an effective legislator.
Yeah, I mean, Jim Jordan is a lot of things, but he's not known as a legislator that's been able to produce legislative results. There are different kinds of members of Congress here. We have them on both sides of the oul. To be honest with you, we got folks who you know, put their head down, get the work done, deliver actual legislation that positively affects the lives of the American people. And then we've got people who make a lot of noise and make a lot of clamor. And
you know, I've been in Congress eleven years. Jim Jordan's been in the latter category the whole time, and so you know, I just think he has seen his role as being a different role and is not considered to be one of those real legislative achievers.
Well, so where do you think we're going. I know that you're not inside the Republican conference, but you've been doing this for a minute. The conventional wisdom in Washington is that Jim Jordan loses more votes with each round. How many can he affec before this is done and we're onto another name.
Well, he's going in the wrong direction. He's losing votes every time. And you know this is not without consequence. The American people have needs that ought to be met. We have global challenges that need to be met. So while this looks like a struggle sort of a civil war within the Republican Party, it's not without a consequence. We need to take action. We need to make sure that we secure a spending plan, there's a bipartisan plan so that the needs of the American people are being met.
If we don't do that because of this civil war within the Republican Party, there's a consequence of the American people. I only say that because very often it looks a lot like palace intrigue. This is a real serious issue that could affect Americans in a really negative way.
Freeze, Yeah, go ahead.
Now, I was gonna say my view is the same view that we offered when Speaker McCarthy was facing the motion to vacate. We want to see a bipartisan path forward. We have very narrow margins in the House, we have divided government. We offered a Speaker McCarthy when he was Speaker facing the motion of a Kate a bipartisan path forward. He said no, that he had it covered. We now are offering the same thing to our Republican colleagues. Let's we know they're in the majority and they're going to
name a Republican speaker. We're not fooling ourselves in that regard. But that doesn't mean we can't come together to get I don't I'm certainly not Jim Jordan. He's the least bipartisan member of Congress that I know. But we can come together, even if it's to make the Speaker pro Tem McHenry the Speaker ProTem for a fixed period of time so that we can get the business of the American people done. I'm open to that.
Your leader, Hakim Jeffreys called Jim Jordan a clear and present danger in a conversation with reporters in the hallways earlier today, and Jim Jordan, I'm not sure exactly what he meant by that. You can weigh in on it, because there are questions about the role that he played on Anuary sixth and helping Donald Trump attempt to overturn the results of the twenty twenty election. Jim Jordan was asked about that at his news conference earlier today. This
is his answer. I'd love to hear you respond to it. Congressman. Here's Jim Jordan.
I think there were all kinds of problems with the twenty twenty election. I've been clear about that. My intention with in forwarding the email was an argument made by former Inspector General for Donald Rumsfeld, accomplish lawyer who laid out an argument from the Federalist papers I forwarded onto them. That was all it was.
Congressman, did Democrats consider Jim Jordan to be an election denier? And if so, what would that mean if he became speaker?
Well, he is an election denier. I mean, it was a cute answer that he gave when pressed on this question. He was intimately involved in supporting the effort to stop the election from being certified. He was actually quite proud of that until now being challenged on those statements. In the longer view of history, he looks foolish. But there's no denying, even by him at the time, that he was a part of the effort to stop the certification
of the election. He was in conversation with former President Trump during that day on several occasions, and you know, the facts are just very clear in this regard. You know, I don't deny him the right to his opinion. He just needs to stick to the opinion that he had then that was a threat to the United States, that was a threat to our democracy. Jim Jordan was a part of it, and he can't deny it.
I think he's going to drop out.
I don't know. You know, some people around this town, again, this happens to be on both sides of the aisle. From time to time, some people fall in love with their noble defeats, or what they view as a noble defeat. Jim Jordan has not been a person who's ever gotten a lot of policy enacted. But he's often very critical of the policies that are enacted, and so he doesn't have a lot of experience with success around here, and so I don't know if he knows how to get there.
I don't believe he does. He's going in the wrong direction. But I also don't know that he has it in him to drop out. But it shouldn't be up to him. There are plenty of reasonable people in that Republican conference, friends of mine, that I hope will finally come to him and say, Jim, it's done, it's over, We're going to move on.
Yeah. Well, you're known for working across the aisle. I know that you have Republican friends, What do they tell you when guys like me are not around. You're obviously hearing I guess from centrist Maybe these are main street Republicans. What do they tell you about a potential path forward in which Democrats and Republicans might be able to work together.
Well, we've actually had some pretty serious conversations between Democrats and Republicans on this possibility of empowering Speaker pro Tim McHenry for a month or two, just so that we can get the pressing business of the American people to the floor of the House and over to the President's desk, making sure we have a budget, dealing with the challenges in Israel and Palestine, dealing with what's going on.
In conservative and say hell no to that, though right.
They seem to, But you know what, they don't maybe get to call the shots all the time. We shouldn't have extreme members dictating the questions that come before Congress. When we have over three hundred members that have already once this year come together around a compromised budget plan. We got to just go back to those agreements and remind ourselves that while we have our differences, we can find common ground if we allow that common ground to
be taken to the floor of the House. Right now, Republicans are preventing it.
Spending time with Congressman Dan Kildey, who's with us live on Capitol Hill, and I'll remind everyone, Congressman that you serve on the Budget Committee, you serve on the Ways and Means Committee. In less than a month from now, this government is going to shut down unless something happens. Is Patrick McHenry the only way to avoid a shutdown at this point.
I don't know if he's the only way, but he's a certain way. If we were to come to agreement to empower a speaker ro Tem McHenry to bring up the resolution that we enacted in a bipartisan fashion on May thirty one, we'd get I assume the same number of votes that we had in May this month, and that would stop a government shut down. So that's one way. If they've got another name they want to offer that,
we'll be willing to bring up that bipartisan agreement. I think it would be good for the American people, and it would allow the Republican Conference to continue to have their argument about who should be their permanent speaker, but not hold the American people hostage in the process.
If you're planning to work the weekend, what's the message that you're hearing.
You know, I'll be here ready to vote. We don't know what the Republican leadership will do in their conference meeting. There's a chance they send us home and we come back Monday. My view is, let's get this done. Whatever the ultimate result is, let's get it done sooner rather than later.
Glad you could join us as always. Congressman Dan Kildey, the Democrat from Michigan, Good to see you, and thanks for thanking the insights today on another wild day in Washington. If you're just joining us, Jim Jordan fails in round three, and we still do not have a Speaker of the House or apparently a path to get one. We assemble our panel now. Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor in Genie Shanzano with us on this Friday. I'm glad to say, Rick,
here we are again. This is this is starting to feel like Groundhog Day. What does a third and bigger loss for Jim Jordan mean for any potential future rounds?
Well, you know the difference in groundhog days. You learn along the way. They don't seem to be learning anything along.
The way here.
You know, it's just it's an exercise and stupidity. How many times you have to vote and keep losing votes to find out that you're not going to be the speaker. The Jordan thing is a real case study because it shows that it's more important for him to keep fighting than to actually accomplish anything. He's not going to be Speaker of the House of Representatives. It is not baked
into the vote. I've spent a lot of time counting votes on Capitol Hill, and it's pretty obvious that the or he votes, the more he is going to ostracize himself in his own caucus. And so the fact is this meeting that's being held right now needs to result in some new ideas. Patrick McHenry isn't making it easy for people because he doesn't want to be speaker, and
he's made it very clear. But you know, this may be draft day, and I think that at this stage Republican leaders, and he's one of them, need to salute and do what's right for the country and quit worrying about their own political ambitions.
Wow.
Genie Shanzo, Happy Friday. It feels a lot like Thursday, which felt like Wednesday. I guess my question here is, you know, look, it's Jim Jordan we're talking about. He's a wrestler. We've certainly heard a lot about that recently, and sometimes you have to get into that third or fourth round before you get the upper hand. Do you even see him having that bone in his body to back down?
You know, I don't know how he is feeling and what he is thinking. He seems to be prodded on by members, and this to me is really a fight between something we have seen in the Republican Party writ large, which is the populist Maga Trump wing of the party versus the institutionalists. And the institutionalist I think many on the Trump side we're pretty confident we're going to cave,
and that hasn't proven to be the case. They have stood strong and their numbers are slowly increasing as we look at this latest vote, and so Jim Jordan is going to have to realize that they need to find
a consensus candidate. But you know, to me, what has been so striking is listening to and you mentioned this when you were talking to the representatives these nominating speeches are fascinating, you know, Kevin McCarthy calling Jim Jordan a legislator and getting a chuckle and a laugh, and then Kevin McCarthy suggesting that people who put their names on
bills are somehow to be looked down upon. Well, if you're not signing bills and not passing legislation and not trying to do the number one job that you're elected to do, how is it that you can be thought of as a leader in this party. But that is what Kevin McCarthy was suggesting. So you know, between that and Tom Pulled the day before nominating Jim Jordan, and his basis renomination was Jim Jordan is going to attack
social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. This is where they are and it is not a selling point for the party or for voters. So keep it up, guys. It is a losing proposition.
Wow.
I think maybe he will wrestle the entitlements to the ground. Genie Rick, the stories from inside the Republican Conference meeting. I can only imagine what's going on right now as we speak. Are wild people yelling at each other, f bombs being thrown? The Five Families kind of ganging up on each other. Matt Gates shouted down, told to sit when he stands. If it continue, we use to deteriorate like this. Where are we in a week or two from now when a shutdown appears more likely?
Yeah?
Look, I mean every day that there's not a speaker in that chair, a shutdown is one more day to being likely, probably less than twenty working days between now and when the shutdown would occur. It's panic time today, right, I mean, we don't have time to panic next week. We should be panicking today. In addition to that, the President just submitted a significant funding bill, you know, for
our allies and distressed democracies around the world. That is incredibly important, and I would say almost as important as funding the federal government itself. Because without these kinds of funds flowing to these places, good democracies will go by the wayside. And so this group has to get off the pot and do something. And the reality is, you know,
it only seems to get worse. I mean, now, the crazy Eights, the gang that threw McCarthy out of the chair for actually passing bills, is offering a willingness to be punished. They if the rest of the caucus just supports Jordan. That's the strangest offer I've ever heard in politics. Hey, we totally screwed up and we're.
Willing to be part Davis. We've got more of our panel coming up next. This is Bloomberg.
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We've got a red headline on the terminal about Israel, and it is not the ground invasion. Quite the contrary. I read US presses Israel to delay Gaza invasion to win hostage release. Did you see the President last night? Did you listen on Bloomberg TV or radio? Joe Biden from the Oval Office, only the second time he's used the Oval Office as a venue to reach into Americans' homes, went live at eight pm Washington time, and he spoke to the cause behind not only funding Israel, but also Ukraine.
Not earlier this morning, I returned from Israel. They tell me I'm the first American president to travel there during the war. I met with the Prime Minister and members of his cabinet, and most movingly, I met with Israelis who had personally lived through horrific car of the attack by Hamas on the seventh of October. More than one three hundred people slaughtered in Israel, including at least thirty two American citizens, scores of innocence, from infants to the
elderly grandparents. Israelis Americans taken hosta as. I told the families of Americans being held captive by a Mons, We're pursuing every avenue to bring their loved ones.
Home, which brings us to the supplemental buzzet request that will apparently amount to one hundred billion dollars. The President did detail some of that last night. We've done more reporting on how it breaks down, with a good chunk of that sixty billion of it for Ukraine. Now, there was a lot of reporting here. As we bring our panel back in, Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano are with us. There was reporting that this invasion could come at any
point following the President's visit. It is not begun yet, And Genie, I wonder your thoughts on whether you think it will actually happen. What are they waiting for? Is this about rescuing hostages or is it more than that?
You know, first of all, such good news to hear that there's this potential hostage release. I think this is what everybody has been hoping for and praying for. So provided those accounts are true, that is very good news.
All.
Yeah, we should detail that, Genie. That's the other most important headline is that Hamas says it released two US citizens on humanitarian grounds, but there are still dozens left. Genie, what's your thaw that?
Yeah, hundreds, I mean over one hundred, one hundred and fifty potentially that we hear, So, you know, I think it this is the fine line that we've heard the president in the administration walking for some time. And you know, it was stunning to see a US president sitting in the war cabinet of another country. I mean, if you had told me a week ago, two weeks ago that we would ever see that, that was a stunning development. And you know, we are looking at a government in
Israel which has not just a Benjamin Nettan Yahoo. But this council, this war council, made up of three and what we do here is there has been some division amongst those three of when and how to go in. One of those divisions being do you go into Gaza as a one front of war or do you go in as a two front to try to head off
some attack from the north by Hesbealah and others. And then of course this question of how extensive the invasion is, and now as you couple that with the US asking them to put it off when they go in, so a lot of questions unanswered. I do think we get a ground invasion, but I don't think we can say right now whether that is going to be at two front, one front, extensive or more limited. But if their goal is to wipe Hamas out, how can they do that
in a limited invasion on the ground. Very very difficult to imagine that being accomplished. And you know, that's really what we are left with, and that's why they are hearing mixed messages from the rest of the world on this.
President said a short time ago at the White House Rick that within twenty four to forty eight hours, the first aid will be en route to Gaza. I've been asking which will happen first, Will the AID arrive or will the ground invasion begin? What do you think?
You know?
I think it's disconnected. I don't think that the Israeli military are considering the release of AID as a prerequisite or.
Not.
They have their own goals and objectives militarily that are focus on the northern part of Gaza. That is not where the AID is going to come in. A lot of good agencies are working hard to bring AID in. You and I think those two things are relatively disconnected. I do not think that the hostage situation is disconnected from the pause of military activity going into Gaza. Obviously, everyone's top priority of the US and Israel is to get their hostages out, and the fact that Cutter is
playing a constructive role in trying to facilitate that. We have to remind ourselves that the entire political leadership of Hamas is in Doha Cutter. It's where they live and where they operates. A Faucian bargain that these things are allowed to happen because then we need the cutteries when this kind of thing happened. So the reality is that we hope that this solves some of that problem, and then Israel will make whatever military decisions that are in their best interests.
Yeah, apparently it was a mother and her daughter released with the help of to your point, Rick Cutter, which helped to negotiate the release of these hostages. Bloomberg says it was not immediately possible to verify claims by Hamas or identify the two Americans, So I suspect that we'll be learning a lot more about this. You've got to take that as good news, I'm guessing, Genie, and I
think you already made that reference. If hostile rescue operations are slowing a ground invasion, we call that progress.
Right absolutely, and you know, you hope that this is a precursor of what is to come, that there is an agreement struck to get that humanitarian aid in to the degree it needs to be in safely, and then, of course, more importantly, those hostages released. And this is you know, sort of a one positive sign at a
very very difficult moment. So absolutely good news. And I think you know, this is what the President has been talking about, is you know, trying to be circumspect and trying to keep the emotion out of it as much as possible and try to get these steps done of aid and the hostages released and this. So this, you know, is sort of building on what he said last night, But of course how Israel responds militarily, and of course
what happens elsewhere. Let's not forget. We had the missile attack yesterday that the US struck down for the Huthis. We've had Hesboalah on the fringe. So all of those players and the proxies of Iran still out there, and how they respond to all of this is going to be critically important.
It does feel different today than it did even yesterday. And in this case, another rapidly developing story, Rick, with reports of attacks on US military installations in Iraq and Syria, the fact that the US intercepted cruise missiles shot by a terrorist group in Yemen toward Israel. How concerned are you about this becoming a wider war?
Well, I actually think it started as a wider war. You know, I thought it was naive that we spent a lot of time debating what Iran's role in all this was on the heels of the attack from Hamas into Israel. Look, I mean, Iran has been fomenting instability and violence in the region. Their malign influence is well documented and known. And all of these groups, the Hooties, the Hmas, the others, the Syrians, they all are funded, they are all equipped. Where do you think they get
the missiles? You know, this is an Iran play to try and destabilize the region, the same way the Russians are doing in Europe and the Chinese are doing in Asia. These are axis of evil that that George Bush only dreamed of. I mean, this is this is what the speech that President Biden made.
It's all about this. I want to hear from both of you about the President's address. We're going to do that next. And of course it all ties back into what's happening or not happening here in Washington. With a speakerless house, it doesn't matter what the president asks for. You can't get action on legislation unless someone has the gavel.
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It was only his second Oval Office address as President. Joe Biden last evening, taking to air at eight pm from behind the Resolute Desk to make the case for funding Israel and Ukraine, painting this as a very dangerous world.
I know these conflicts can seem far away and snaps will ask why does this matter to America? So let me share with you why making sure Israel and Ukraine succeed is vital for America's national security. You know, history has taught us that when terrorists don't pay a price for their terror, when dictators don't pay a price for their aggression, they caused more chaos and death and more destruction.
The president last evening in the Oval Office. He has since commented on the situation, as we mentioned, suggesting that humanitarian aid in the next twenty four to forty eight hours will be arrived in Gaza. Let's reassemble our panel's talk about this and a lot more. Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis are here on the Friday edition of Sound On Rick, what did you make of the speech itself, the writing of the speech, but also the delivery by this president.
Yeah, I thought it was best best speech the president has given since his term of office. It was substantively exactly what the American people needed to hear that the world is a competitive place and there are those who want to undermine our values in our system of democracy
around the world. He was able to use effectively. I thought Ukraine and Israel as two examples of what's happening around the world in that regard, but there are more, and he alluded to that with Taiwan and China, and frankly, there are.
Even more than that.
So I think he finally took it to the American people. I wish you'd done it on Ukraine earlier to help build American support for that, but I thought it was well done, and hopefully we'll result in a little stuff or backbone and some of the isolationists in Congress to get going and help support those countries that mean so much to us.
Well, that's the question, Jeanie. Did the President change any minds last night, whether it was people watching at home or lawmakers in Washington.
You know, he's sorry, Joe. He had an almost impossible task ahead of him, and the reality is is that when you were speaking to that many audiences and chriss crossing the world, the way he was trying to do. It was a very very difficult hill to climb. So I give him credit for coming out. I think he needs to do that more. But I put myself in the perspective of somebody who's not following this as closely
as you do. Rick does and I do. And if you are sitting somewhere working all day, you come home, you turn on the TV, or you turn on Bloomberg Radio, you're listening. You're thinking, why is he talking about taking trains to Ukraine, flying in and out of Israel? You know, what does this have to do with me? I'm having trouble paying my marriage, all of these things. And so from that perspective, it was a difficult task and he did an okay job. Nothing against the president, but is
it going to change minds in the US? Probably not when it pertains to funding of the level he's talking about. So I understand why he's asking for one hundred billion. He only needs. He can only do this once, given the state of Congress and facing an election year. But are you telling me that people sitting at home looked at that and said, yeah, that's right. Probably not, And that's the problem the president has.
I think it's interesting he convinced the Republican here more than the Democrat. Rick. Does the Oval Office address have the same weight or impact that it once had now that we're not in a three network TV world anymore?
Yeah, I mean, you won't have had that many eyes on it last night, but the social media aspect of it, the chopping up of that speech and the complete saturation of that speech around the world, is.
Going to have a big impact.
We've got something cooking on Capitol Hill that I've got to bring the conversation back here, guys. This Republican conference meeting that's underway right now is apparently going to generate a vote on whether Jim Jordan, in fact, they're taking this vote now, whether Jim Jordan will remain the Republican nominee for speaker. If you're just catching up here, Jim Jordan law a third round of voting today and lost
by the most he has yet. They then went behind closed doors, and it looks like we're going to have a sense here in the interim. Let's see if we get the votes counted and whether the results are accepted, where we may be without even a speaker designate. What kind of strategy is this, Rick, They're eating their own now.
Yeah, this is phenomenal. If it weren't so important, it'd be entertaining an upper down vote on Jim Jordan. I mean, normally you would have somebody who would say, no, no, I'll contest this, I'll be I want to be the Republican nominee. But you don't even have anybody will stand up and say, hey, I want the job. So an upper down vote on Jordan will likely mean Jordan wins that vote. I mean, it's awful hard to lose majority vote when you've just gotten one hundred and ninety votes
on the floor. So the reality is that it's just another way of toy spinning themselves up and hopefully I guess the Jordan folks think that'll give them some momentum.
It makes no sense to me, Frankly.
We'll let you know, of course, what we learn out of this. We're going to have to give us a minute. But Genie, I don't know if if Jim Jordan is not the speaker designated by the end of the day, here are we moving closer to a Patrick McHenry speakership or a Hockey and Jeffreys speakership.
You know, yesterday I thought maybe Patrick McHenry, but the Republicans balked at that. I mean, this is the conference that just can't accept a yes and to move forward. So, you know, let's just also reflect on some of these horrific voicemails that we have been hearing that Republicans who voted against Jim Jordan have been getting and have been releasing and their spouses and their families threatening them in the worst language. And so this is where the conference is,
and we understand that. Kevin McCarthy was just asked if it's a broken conference and he said, we're in a bad position or a bad place. Well, that's the under statement of the century. They are in a horrific place and there doesn't seem to be anyone to lead them
out of it. And that is what we are seeing, and what an embarrassment for the party, And to Rick's point, it is a shame for us and the rest of the world because they have important business to do, so they've got to get behind somebody who can lead this conference.
I'm glad you mentioned it because the death threats, the voicemails are horrifying and it might be the undoing of Jim Jordan, if it hasn't already been. Never mind the emails from Sean Hannity's producer, My god, you want to talk about pressure, Rick and Jeanie with us as we try to get to the bottom of this. It's happening as we speak on the hill. This is Bloomberg.
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Welcome to our two of Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington, where we have breaking news. I've said that just about every time I've come near a microphone today. Kaylee's just back from Capitol Hill. Thanks for making time as always, because we've now got a red headline on the terminal. It's not the first one that we've seen today in the speaker's race, but Jim Jordan is out.
Yeah.
Granted, when I was at the Capitol earlier. He had just lost his third vote attempting to get the speakers Gattle. Twenty five members of the Republican Conference voted against him. They all went into a room did another secret ballot to decide whether or not Jordan should remain the speaker designate for the Republican Conference, and they decided no. The margin Joe pretty large, one twelve to eighty six.
That's a pretty loud result, and there's clearly no path for him. So everyone's going.
Home again, Yeah, until Monday.
That's a real headline too here right, all the members were told. So everyone's in a national airport as we speak.
According to Congressman Marjorie Taylor Green of Georgia, they're going to come back and at six thirty pm Monday night, they're going to have another candidate for him to try to pick someone else. So Kevin McCarthy's out. Steve Scalice tried and failed, and now Jim Jordan has tried and failed too. And we'll see what other names pop up over the weekend.
Joe, this is like a game show. Now, this is survivor, yes, and no one can get off the island. Lie no, or maybe it's the opposite. We're Mike Rogers, Jody Errington, what Kevin Hearn? Are we down to sort of the third run? Now, well, that's a good point. Weeks ago Emmer was seen as a real contender and he hasn't gone near this thing because he's probably smarter than that. There are others in the leadership. I suppose does Steve Scalie come back around or Kevin is watching?
Well, yeah, there's the McCarthy question as well, and there's that Mick. Then there's also the Mick Henry factors. I have to consider a number of members that were speaking to reporters on the steps of the Capitol earlier today, when asked about that idea that Patrick mcchenry could see his powers as pro tem expanded. A number of them said he could just run for speaker, that that would be the better path forward than expanding some feel as unconstitutional. I don't know that he wanted the job.
Well, you know, maybe that might be just the way to get the job the way things are going here. But we'll keep you posted on this pretty remarkable day in Washington again. Jim Jordan no longer in the running. I suppose anything could happen, but I wouldn't hold your breath today as lawmakers pack up the office, locked the door, and head for the airport to go home. Now, this has consequences, of course, Kayley, as we've discussed getting closer
to a November seventeen government shutdown. There's no kind of real path here. But also the President spoke to Americans from the Oval Office last evening to make the case for a one hundred billion dollar supplemental budget request for Israel, for Ukraine, Taiwan and border security here kind of a national security package, as he put it, which is worth nothing until there's a speaker.
Well exactly, it can't be acted on. And we were speaking earlier with Congresswoman Nicole Mally talkas outside the Capitol, and she said funding for Israel is really important, but the longer the House goes on without a speaker, they lose their leverage to try to address these funding questions separately, specifically Ukraine, which we know is a huge problem for
House Republicans. But to your point, Joe, whether they're addressing them separately or whether they are addressing them at all, need a speaker of.
The House to do that. That's true, but we have to talk about what's going on in the Middle East today with headlines beyond funding, and it's important to talk about this after an Oval Office address, only the second one we've seen and heard from Joe Biden with news now. As we just mentioned, Hamas says it's released two American hostages. The White House is looking for some time here. They're urging Israel to delay a ground invasion so more hostages
might be saved. And that's where we start our conversation with General Ben Hodges, former Commanding General US Army Europe back with us on Bloomberg. General, it's great to see you and thanks for your patients. As we grind through some breaking news here, we're getting it on both sides of the Atlantic today. What's your thought on this ask
from the White House? Does it matter what the administration says and is it possible for Israel to balance a ground invasion along with the hostage rescue mission?
Well, I think it was important that the President last night, first of all, spoke to the nation how important this is and to explain why this matters to all of us. But also I was impressed and glad to see him link. What's happening in Ukraine to what's happening in Israel. These are link I am sure because of the relationship between Putin and Iran, those are the two closest allies. Russia is benefiting from this Hamasa tack on Israel more than anybody.
It distracts attention, resources, energy away from Ukraine, which of course is what the Kremlin needs. So the President, I think correctly, has linked these things and talks about us getting organized, working with allies. This is how we're going to defeat Russia, defeat Hamas, deterred to Iran and also to deter China from thinking that they could find opportunity and all of this as well well.
And that's something we've repeatedly heard from the President and others in his administration, like Secretaries Austin and Blinked In. Basically, anyone trying to take advantage of this crisis, don't do it. How great do you think the risk is of that happening? Though, despite what the President says from the Oval Office, despite
requests he made. As Joe and I were just discussing, it's going to be a while probably before Congress can actually act on this, and we're seeing a lot of division here at home that I'm sure they're paying attention to internationally.
Well, Kaylie, you're right, our foreign policy depends a lot on having strong domestic policy and being unified at home. And so the President is doing what he should do, which is to try and galvanize American support, congressional support for or this these threats, all of which are against all the stuff, all the things that we care about, as well as for our allies. Now it is a major problem not having a functioning House of Representatives right now. This is a problem, and of course all of our
adversaries can see this. That's why they've been going after our resilience as an American society for so long, to cause us to lose trust and confidence in our institutions. And so this chaos now in the House plays right into that. But I also think it's useful to point out that the Department of Offense has done what they should have done, which is to put the two carrier strike groups in the Eastern Mediterranean to do other things
to These are prudent steps to convey to Iran. Do not make the terrible mistake of thinking that you could escalate this because they'll play a big price. And this is prudent planning by the Department of Defense.
You talked to us about the invasion at hand. General, you have a better sense of this than most. The longer time goes by allows Hamas to reinforce its positions, hide things, create new tunnels. Is it getting more dangerous by the day for the Israelis?
Yeah, for sure, there is a There is a pressure on the Israeli leadership right now. With each passing day, tunnels get a little bit deeper. The Hamas is able to prepare, that's a part of it. But then a forces pressure on the Israeli leadership because of the impact on their economy. I mean to pull three hundred thoughts to call up three hundred thousand reservists, that's three hundred thousand people, most of whom are normally in the workforce somewhere.
So there's a there's a dynamic there, and there's also a psychological pressure on these soldiers. I mean, you can only stay in a crash for so long and so at some point have to move forward, which is why I think. I don't know this, but the fact that two hostages were released today, Thank goodness for those two
and their families. But you can almost imagine how the Hamas might look to trickle things out to delay if we are all thinking that maybe if we wait a little bit longer, we might get more hostages.
So do you think that is a mistake, general, for that to be something that the US is pushing for.
No.
I mean, we have to get those hostages out, but there is a point somewhere where you know these things you have to find the right balance between are we doing everything that we can to get hostages? I am absolutely sure that we are and the Israelis will be very effective at doing this, and there's probably all sorts of pressures, some different directions trying to get hostages released.
But at the same time, these other pressures are there as well, And so I think this is time for some really strong, clear out assessment of what's going on. Constantly weighing risks, and I think the Israeli as well as with US and British and other leadership are weighing all of these possibilities. Key will be making sure this does not get that this does not escalate beyond Gazo.
General, I need to ask you about Ukraine as well. That was a big chunk of the speech, and in fact will be a much larger chunk of money than Israel receives out of this one hundred billion dollar request. One of the things that has not made headlines in the crazy world that we've been dealing with in the news cycle recently is the fact that the US quietly delivered attack ems to Ukraine, something that we held on held out on for some time, long range ballistic missiles.
Not only has their delivery been confirmed by the Ukrainians, but they've already been used in the battlefield, President Zelenski saying they were used against Russia and executed very accurately. How important is that development? And with another sixty billion dollars coming, what else do they get?
So the delivery of some attacks at last is important because as you just described, Joe, that's a real capability. The Ukrainians have destroyed, by different reports, probably somewhere close to twenty Russian helicopters, as well as the maintenance facilities for those helicopters. That is quite a blow That would
be damaging for US if we lost that much. Secondly, the Russians are continuing this really meat grinder sort of tactic attacking against Ukrainian defenses around on a place called Avdika Avdifka, and they've lost over a thousand soldiers killed every day for about the last seven days in a row. So this is I don't see any bright lights on the horizon for Russia. They will only continue doing what
they're doing. So the attackles that were provided, or the type with the cluster munition, it's very effective against these kinds of attacks. But I have to say, while I'm glad that the US has finally delivered some attackings, the main thing that's missing from the President's speech last night was these still cannot say we want Ukraine to win.
If he says we want Ukraine to win, that it's our interests that they win, not not just that they avoid losing, but that they win, that they eject Russia back to the nineteen ninety one borders, then you would see all the other things that are needed that would really make a difference. The attacks that have the range of three hundred kilometers that could be used to make crime untenable for Russian forces. That's what would really make the difference.
And maybe those are coming if this money gets approved. I don't know, General but there was of course a big debate about whether they should get them at all. Now they are there. The concern at that time, though, when it was a debate, was moving this battle of this war beyond the borders of Ukraine, that it would give Ukraine the ability to strike within Russian territory. Is that the only way to win this.
No, And to be honest, I think those were excuses that the administration was used in because they did not want to provide attackings, not because they were worried because they might use them inside Russia, which of course maybe Kiev would have done that, but because they are not committed to Ukraine actually winning, to defeating Russia on the battlefield. If they if they were committed, then there'd be no
question about providing the three hundred kilometer range attackings. We would have started F sixteen training over a year ago. There'd be no questions about how much fuel and abrams tank burns. Those were all excuses Now the Ukrainians, by the way, Ukrainians have said, hey, if there's a restriction on US launching attackers into Russia in order to get them, we won't. We won't do that. We've got enough targets.
The Ukrainians have enough targets inside Russian occupied Ukraine that they don't have to launch attackers against targets inside of Russia. The French and the British were satisfied this more than two months ago. I don't understand why our administration continues to hold back on delivering capability. We continue this incremental drip drip of aid versus helping Ukraine win. That's the quickest way to end this, boyt.
I only have a minute left, General, in fact a little bit less. If I'm reading you right, then Ukrainians need longer range attackers. Israeli's need replacement missiles for the Iron Dome. Are those the two priorities for each.
I think those are very You've nailed it. Those would be the two things I would say. The key is capability. I try to stay away from specific platforms. I talk capability. Ukraine needs the capability to make Crimea, the most important part of this war, untenable for the Russian Black Sea Fleet in the Russian Air Force. Israel needs the capability to protect their populations from endless rocket attacks.
He speaks because he knows. General Ben Hodges, retired Lieutenant General US Army former Commanding General US Army Europe. So great to see you and welcome back. As always, thanks for sharing your insights. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. We've got two new victims. Two people raise their hands for speaker. We'll have it next. This is Bloomberg.
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All right, we have another and another, I said victim a moment ago. Kaylee. I don't know if that was fair, but at this point, if you're actually breaking into jail and entering the race for Speaker of the House right now as a Republican, you're in for some fun.
Yeah. It's I'm hard pressed to see why anyone really wants the job when it's so hard to get and clearly very hard to keep, as Kevin McCarthy will tell you. And yet the fact of the matter is someone's got to do it. For this House of Representatives and for Congress as a whole to function and do the work it needs to do, someone has to have the gabble. So it's kind of like taking one for the team, even if the team mostly is against you.
Kind of this is Kevin McCarthy.
We are in a very bad place right now.
Yet we're in a very bad place right now. So enter Kevin Hearn. Yes, and who else is raising their hand?
Jack Bergman, the general Okay, Austin Scott, remember.
So we have three now?
Yes?
Wow?
And of course there had been a lot of buzz even going into the boat today that Jody Errington the Firm Texas.
So by the time this candidate's forum happens on Monday, that's another thing we learned. We could have a whole new stage full holy Republican debate.
And then I assume we'll go through everything we went through the first two times around Joe where they do the secret ballot, they try to figure out who was the support.
Maybe they should bring Brett Baer put it on TV this time, make people behave a little more. I didn't think we'd be talking about this with Max Bacchus, the former Senator former ambassador to China joins us now as we do effort a conversation about geopolitics. But mister ambassador, it's great to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg. I just I go back to two thousand and eight and I remember the role that you played in negotiating around Obamacare,
which was the beginning of a lot around here. The tea party, the political blow, the role that the internet was playing, and it has gone nuclear ever since. Do you recognize this Washington anymore?
Well, it's very different, no question about it, one Master Member. There's a kind of unique quality to the House of Representatives. I served in the House for two terms as well as in the Senate. When I was in the House, it just struck me that there are little bands of groups that form in the House. That's not really a collective majority party, but there's lots of small little bands
in groups. And that's I think that's partly because when you're in the House, you really, for most districts, don't have to compromise very much because you're in a safe district. And that means that House members tend to be I think a little bit nearrow minded. They don't have to compromise very much, unlike senators, because when you're a senator, generally your states so much larger, you have lots of different interests to accommodate. Not so in the House. So
I'm not surprised to this phenomenon. But as some of your commentators said, we're at a real bad place, and I frankly think that the soul, the better soul of the Republican Party is going to start to emerge and they're going to find finally somebody is going to take that job, as difficult as it is, as difficult as to keep it well.
Ambassadors, Joe and I sit here talking about how this feels like a reality TV show, maybe even a game show. Doesn't even really feel like reality, if I'm being honest, And that's how we're viewing it here in Washington, and how I'm sure the constituents of the individuals may be watching things too, But how do you think this is viewed abroad, especially given the geopolitical challenges the world is facing that we're going to speak with you about in
just a moment. Does this make the United States look weak?
It does, no question does. And then clearly companies like China are going to play this up. It's good propaganda for China. Frankly, the Chinese really do feel that they have a superior former government than we the and I was serving over there, Wang Deter, who is one of the top people, would explain to me why they're superior.
Why are they superior because they have a former government which allows them to make things happen very quickly pointing out that the last forty years, had they been a democracy, then they never would have grown as much as they as they have. And second, they think they have a much better process for choosing leaders that if their leaders are per reviewed over time, someone bubbles up the top and that's the person they select. And then he said
over there in your country, anybody could be president. So they do feel superior, and then they're going to use this This is a house failure to elect a speaker is example how dysfunctional America is, and it's going to really help that position themselves within the within Chinese people.
I'm curious your thoughts following this visit by Vladimir Putin, who Joe Biden was talking about last night in his address to the American people with regard to Ukraine. But he had quite a meeting with his friend, his dear friend, as he called him, President She in Beijing. President She outlining his vision of a new world order as they spent time together, touting the benefits of Belton Road and
the weakness of the West. This is the backdrop for the conversation that the President had with the country last night. How worried are you about these two getting ever closer?
I'm quite concerned. Essentially, all countries will pursue their own national interests. We do as Americans, the Chinese do, and the Chinese are going to use their relationship with Russia as well as with Iran and some other countries to try to gain as much influence as they can in the world, and especially appeal to the South countries, that is, to the South Asian, to African and South American countries
and developing countries. They do believe that they're the leader of developing countries as opposed to developed and they have a former government. It's going to help those countries progress much more quickly than if they were if they were, say, a Western democracy. So and add to that, unfortunately, is
the tragedy unfolded in the Mid East. Because that that tragedy, combined with the visits of Putin to an example, to Russia as well as the Egyptian president recently to Russia to it to China, really is starting to cause the world tectonic place to shift a little bit. And we're approaching a kind of a real deep division on the one hand between the United States and Western allies leading
the world beacon of hope and democracy. On the other hand, the group of countries led by China is appealing much more to the South countries, and it's very unfortunate. We're in a very difficult position. I don't know if we're a tipping point, but we're in a very difficult position in the world where US influence versus China's influence is going to be very important to see who's going to carry the day.
And how influential is what happens in the Middle East to that Invessador.
I think it's it's quite influential because China again appeals to the South countries, and the South countries have a very deep affinity to the Palestinians and other Arab countries. And let's not forget it's a bit of a change of subject here, but we are here in significant respect because of the decisions made by Western Powers at the end of World War One, at the breakup of the Ottoman Empire. At the end of World War one, when the Automan Empire is broke it up, there were no countries in
Mid East like Jordan or Lebanon. Western Powers created those company countries and place them right in the middle of Arab Mid East and Palestinians and so and then put Israel in the Midia. So the tension has been building up in Mid East basically since the end of World War One, and it's just getting worse and worse. There's been no resolution between Israel and the Palestadians. Will there be a two state solution or not. President she is in China is advocated, but that's kind of still born.
I think that's going to happen. We're in a mess. We're in a real mess. And add to that is the form of a war is going on in the House Republicans because they can't get their ACTI.
Unbelievable. We're in a mess. This is something we all agree on at home and abroad. Max Bauchus, former Ambassador to China. Of course, former US Senator from the great state of Montana. It's good to see you, sir, and thanks for the insights. If you were with us on YouTube, and you can do that now by searching Bloomberg Global News, you would have seen the Max backdrop he had going there, which was excellent.
I have to admit I liked it very much.
I want a backdrop that just says.
Kayley, that's right. This seems like the very not personalized situation here. We're going to work on that. If if you are just joining us, it's been an interesting day around here. Jim Jordan is no longer the speaker designate. Everybody's going home. As Kaylee has been reporting, we have three at least candidates now who are ready to jump in the pool. We're going to have a candidate's forum on Monday, uh speaker's vote presumably on Tuesday.
Yeah.
Patrick mccannery says, Tuesday.
Is the Tuesday, so that puts us.
Four days away. That will be three full.
Weeks that we have.
Wow.
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