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You've been robbing elbows with lawmakers all day, none of whom seem to know what's going to happen.
Next, although they all seem to think that more than likely the government will shut down come that deadline of midnight SAT.
So are we beyond likely? Can we start saying that the government shuts down in four days?
Well, there were still a few. I talked to Congressman Brian Style being one. He said something similar to what he told us on this show earlier this week, which is that it's always darkest before the dawn, and it ain't done yet. It's just true, not yet down. We still have a few days to go. But it's just looking really, really difficult at this point.
Show it is, and it's interesting that Speaker McCarthy is talking about a way forward. It says that they will avoid a government shutdown. First the spending bills, then they got a CR. But nobody can agree on the CR even in the House. Never mind the one that is moving in the Senate right now, the way he did react to that procedural vote in the Senate that sets up passage of a continuing resolution that would keep the government open. The Speaker doesn't want to do it the Senate's way.
They're picking Ukraine over Americans. Look, I know there's problems out there. What Russia has done is wrong, and we can defend that. But we also watching happen right here in America right now. Why can't we deal with the border in our emergencies too?
Getting back to the border, this is the new theme now that if you want to keep the government open, Joe Biden, you've got to deal with border security, even though this really hadn't been mentioned until twenty four hours ago.
Yeah, and this is something that came up recurringly in my conversations with the Republicans in the House on the Hill today. Brian Style brought this up. Congressman French Hill of Arkansas brought up border as well, the idea that they can do a cr that has border security measures in it, and both of them suggested to me they might find support for that in the Senate, because when you have the likes of New York City Mayor Eric Adams talking about some of these issues with migrants. They said,
Democrats may want to deal with this too. It seems like they think the Senate wouldn't necessarily consider a measure like that debt on arrival. But as you say, Joe, the Senate's got its own thing in the works, and the House doesn't seem very into that.
We're talking about this like it matters with four days to go. I mean, at some point we're going to have to come to terms with reality here. I look, I don't know exactly how this is going to end, but it's starting to be inevitable. I guess that's why we wanted to talk to Michael Lindon because the next days here is the administration making decisions on what checks
to cut. Before we get that Fartherugh, you've got some breaking news on the union in Detroit, and I just want to make sure that everybody hears about this because we're going to be seeing a visit from former President Donald Trump tonight speaking to these workers. We have a new deadline.
Yeah, and this comes after Biden was with them on the picket line yesterday. Sean Fain once again the second week in a row. On Friday at ten am is going to hold a Facebook live stream and the UAW we understand, does intend to expand strikes on Friday barring major progress at the negotiating table. I'm not sure we've seen signs of major progress to this point, Joe, And the idea is we could see another escalation for the second week in a row with an announcement over Facebook.
You know, it's been strangely quiet, even with the visits of Trump and Biden this week on negotiations. I wonder if Ford gets back on the list, if there's no further progress with Ford, if they're back in the doghouse last time, they were spared last time, and we could have another scaling up, as they say, of the stand ups this weekend agamp Boy Friday. So we're going to have another deadline to look forward to.
Right, first, you expand the auto strike, huh, then you shut down the government, then everyone starts paying back student loans again. It's a triple whammie.
Well, at least two of those we know are coming. Yeah. Michael Lindon, the former Senior Advisor of the President, executive Associate director of the Office of Management and Budget in the Biden administration, those are just like to have to make decisions when not all the money is available. Mike, Well, it's great to have you on Bloomberg. Thanks for being with us. They must be modeling or making decisions already
inside OMB in advance of a potential shutdown. What's the conversation like behind closed doors right now?
Yeah, that's right, and thanks for having me. Really appreciate being here. You're absolutely right. Whenever you approach the potential lapse in funding at the end of a fiscal year, at the end of a continuing resolution, OMB has to start going through the process of figuring out exactly what will actually shut down, what will continue at a reduced level,
and what will continue sort of quasi normally. But it's really important to understand that a shutdown is going to be painful no matter what, no matter what decisions OMB makes, no matter how the administration chooses to interpret of some of its authorities. The government does an enormous amount of behind the scenes, under the radar, day to day kinds of activities and protections and programs that American people rely
on every day. Maybe maybe they don't even realize they're relying on it, and they're going to realize when it's not there, or when it's way slower than they expect.
It's going to.
Hurt a lot of people. But you're absolutely right that the process of figuring that out begins well in advance of a potential lapse.
So you say, Michael, that it is going to hurt a lot of people. And what I've heard continuously on Capitol Hill is that a shutdown is far less consequential than say, a default on the debt, a failure of the US government to meet its obligations, because the money comes back right as soon as the appropriation bills actually pass. Everybody gets their back pay. No harm, no foul. But are you saying they're actually there is a foul here.
Well, well, they're definitely gonna be harm and foul, don't. I don't think it's the same as a default. That's true, but that doesn't There's a lot of things between apocalypse and no harm at all, and this is somewhere in those things. So it's not no harm, no foul. Some
people will get back pay. Federal employees will get back put back pay after the shutdown presumably ends, but in the meantime, if it goes on a long time and you're a federal employee or you're a service member and you're you know, operating paycheck to paycheck and you don't get a paycheck one time, that that's going to affect you. That's going to affect how you you know, how you
live your life. It may mean you miss a mortgage payment, or you miss a rent payment, or you have to call your kids childcare and say I'm sorry, I can't make I can't make the payments this month, and that has ripple effects. I will also say that contractors, federal contractors are not guaranteed back pay. That's not something that will necessarily happen. And there's all sorts of other consequences
that are beyond pay. So, for example, the Small Business Administration is making loans every day to small businesses who need that assistance to make payroll or to expand or to make investments. They're not going to be able to process those loans during your shutdown. There those you know that small business owner is going to call up at its local SBA office and going to get a busy signal or going to get a message that's sorry, we can't answer the phone right now. That has broader implications
for the economy as well. The truth is that the government shutdown will have consequences that are far reaching and sometimes in ways that we won't be able to predict until they happen, and when when they happen, people are going to be very unhappy.
Well, i'll tell you this whole conversation has brought us a warning from Moody's this week, Michael. We talked to Mick mulvaney here on the program a couple of days ago, and he found that to be inappropriate, suggesting that even in a shutdown, we continue to pay our debt. What is the conversation like around that inside the administration.
Well, the good news, there's good and bad news here. As is always the case, there are some requirements that the government will continue to pay under any circumstances, either because it's using a different form of funding. So we're talking about a government shutdown here, we're talking about the annual appropriations process, which funds a lot of the basic systems and protections and services that the American people rely on.
But it doesn't fund things like Social Security benefits or Medicare benefits or interest payments on the debt, so those things would continue. There are some consequences, however, that are really important to remember. The Social Security benefits are funded by separate funding streams that are not affected by a shutdown. But the people who process those Social Security benefits, the Social Security Administration is funded by normal appropriations, process normal appropriations.
And so those folks are going to go without a paycheck. Now they will continue processing those payments. But will there be consequences for morale, or for speed, or for efficiency. Yes, there will be, and it's should we shouldn't pretend that there won't be. Now, there won't be consequences on pay interest payments on our debt, but there will be these broad other consequences that it's very hard to predict exactly how they're going to turn out.
Well, And it isn't a consequence as well, Michael, that all of this implementing the shutdown. Bringing the government out of a shutdown costs money too. This is something Congressman Mike Lawler, who is a Republican, one of the most vocal Republicans against a shutdown, one who says he would sign on to a discharge petition along with Democrats in order to get the government funded.
If need Be.
Says it's a myth that a shutdown saves money. It costs money. Can you just walk us through that.
He's absolutely right. It absolutely costs money. You end up having to incur costs that you wouldn't otherwise have to, You have to put off payments that might incur interest payments, you might there's all sorts of ways that, you know, you end up the government ends up being much less efficient if it's operating on a skeleton crew or having to decide which things to do it and put off
and put off till later. There's certain things that the government does that save money, things like you know, investigating fraud and investigating waste that won't happen during a government shutdown. So he's absolutely right. It's going to cost money. It costs the economy, it costs individual families, and we should really be clear here that a shutdown is entirely avoidable here. Senate Republicans, Senate Democrats on board with a simple cr that would keep the government open. If that CR is
on the floor of the House, it passes. The question is whether Speaker McCarthy will put that on the floor of the House or simply say no, my caucus doesn't want to do that, and so we end up with a shutdown.
You know, Michael, we still remember the deal that was struck. You mentioned the debt ceiling and the avoidance of default. There was a big deal, a grand deal that involved weeks of agonizing negotiations, and you were in the room for some of them. President Biden was asked just yesterday about Speaker McCarthy as a trusted player here. He said, we made a deal, we shook hands. How come nobody
remembers this orchestration around the debt ceiling limit. I wonder your thoughts on that, because that was the whole plan to prevent what we're going through now.
That's absolutely right, and I appreciate you bringing that up because I was in the room. I was part of those negotiations, and I can tell you that part of that agreement was that we would avoid a government shutdown, that we would be able to have an appropriations process that precedes something close to normal. And the good news is that the Senate has actually been doing that right. They have been passing appropriations bills out of committee on
a bipartisan basis. That align with that, with that agreement, and the Speaker and the House Republicans did more than just shake hands. They voted for it. One hundred and fifty Republicans in the House voted for that deal. It set top line levels, and then they proceeded to pass appropriation bills that completely ignore that.
And now they're going to Kevin McCarthy cannot be trusted them.
I think it's a I think my own view, and I was, like I said I was in the room, is that they were absolutely negotiating in good faith. I really do believe that. I think they intended to stick to that deal. And whether the tail is now just wagging the dog in the House Caucus and the Speaker can't get control of his most extreme elements or is unwilling to confront them, that may have changed. But I
think that the Speaker was negotiating in good faith. I think the Speaker still has a chance to make good on that. We don't need a shut down here. They can give themselves more time, and they should do that. He should take that chance.
Michael I caught up with Congressman french Hill up earlier today and he was talking about how the fact that we had a deal, we agreed to it. His direct quote was, and now we're relitigating it here with some in the Republican Party the operative word there being some. Realistically, we're talking about just a few members that are holding this up. Another Republican I spoke with Brian's Sisle said that this just shows that the spending process in the
US is broken. How should it be fixed if this happens time and again?
Well, it's an interesting point, and I couldn't agree more that what we have here is a problem with one faction in one party, in one chamber, and the Speaker is allowing that one faction to control whether or not we get to shut down, whether we have a shutdown or not, or get to keep the government open. And it's interesting that this year we did agree to a
top line agreement. Well in advance of the deadline. The Senate has been proceeding according to the sort of normal appropriations process, passing individual bills out of committee on a bipartisan basis. It's the House has decided to go a different direction. I don't know that there's any process or deals that can fix something that's rotten inside one caucus. If the Speaker is not willing to confront that caucus and say I'm just not going to.
Listen to you.
There's a odd by partisan majority for appropriations bills that meet the terms of the deal that we all agreed to. He could still do that. There is a majority in the House to keep the government open and to pass appropriations bills.
There's still a chance, says Michael Lindon, but it's not looking good. Many thanks Michael for your insights. We appreciate you bringing your first hand experience to us here on sound On with Kaylee Lines, I'm Joe Matthew.
This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
We add the voice now with Congressman Seth Moulton. Always a pleasure to have the Congressman from Massachusetts with us, of course, the Congressman Moulton, a Democrat from Massachusetts who served for combat tours in Iraq, a marine combat veteran who brings a unique perspective here from the hill, and it's good to have you back. Congressman. I feel like maybe we've seen this movie before, although this one might
be scarier than past episodes. What are you feeling. Are we shutting down in four days?
Yes? I think we are. And I say that just because that's what my Republican colleagues tell me. And as you know, as you've just explained, it's all up to them. I mean, when you have the majority in the House, as Republicans do, and you elect the speaker who determines what we vote on, what bills actually come to the floor, including whether or not they're going to vote on bills to actually get out of this shutdown, then it really is dependent on them. That's where we are right now.
And I thought your analysis of what's going on with Speaker McCarthy is is pretty accurate. You know, he could understand this, He could tell these extremists in his party. You know what, for the first time, I'm not going to listen to you. I'm not going to listen to you.
I'm going to do the right thing for the country by bringing a compromised bill to the floor that both Republicans and Democrats can vote for to get us out of this mess, the same compromise bill that's already passed the Senate with both Democratic and Republican votes, and we'll do the right thing for the country. But he's not going to do the right thing for the country. He's going to do the right thing for himself to keep the gavel as speaker by putting us into a shutdown.
The Speaker says, now that the border is the issue, It's interesting how the storyline has evolved over this course of time. He says that he needs to meet with Joe Biden and that if Joe Biden wants to keep the government open, he needs to shut down the border. How frequently are we going to hear the storyline change as we get closer to midnight on Saturday.
I've a wild guess maybe twice a day with his character.
Is that how you feel, though? I mean, are you getting these signals from the Speaker's office?
Speaker McCarthy is completely out of control of his own conference, of his own Republican majority, and so what he's trying to do is come up with a different excuse a different reason why this hasn't happened to justify his continued effort to try to find some compromise that the extremists have already said they're not willing to accept. He's trying to drag it out by changing the story by saying, well, now I need to meet with the president over this.
Now I need to meet with who knows, Maybe he'll say he needs to meet with one of the secretaries over that. He's just trying to drag this out to save his position.
I've heard a couple of things over the past couple of days. You can tell me if they are true. Jim Clyburn, the congressman from South Carolina, told us yesterday here on Bloomberg that if Speaker McCarthy decided to work with Hakeem Jeffries that you're Democratic leader in the House would just have to say the word you guys would back a continuing resolution that is moving its way through the Senate or fine votes to come up with your
own in the House. We also heard from another lawmaker who was with us yesterday who said Speaker McCarthy could pick up the phone right now and get this done if he's simply engaged with Haakim Jeffries. Is that true that Democrats are actually standing by to help him solve this? Even if this goes to a motion to vacate Matt Gates is still threatening to fire the speaker, Democrats could
also be there to help him get through that. Is this a matter of simply reaching across the aisle Your party is ready to help.
Yes, yes it is. That's a simple answer. Yes. Now let's pull it apart a little bit in terms of actually funding the government. Not only is what Jim Cliburn said true, but it's the way that these problems have always come to an end when Republicans control the House.
They've shut down the government before, and it's always been Democrats who bail them out, who joined together with moderate Republicans, reasonable Republicans to support a compromise bill, just like the one that has already passed the Senate this week to get us out of this mess. So not only are Democrats standing here today, myself included, ready and willing to help to work together to do the right thing for the country, but that's what we've always done in the
past when Republicans put us in this situation. It's only Republicans who threatened to shut down the government like this, and it's always Democrats who give the Republican majority the votes that they need to get.
Out of it.
Now on the second question, The second question is more interesting because this would be largely unprecedent for a Republican Speaker who got elected just with Republican votes to say, the only way I can keep my job is to get Democrats to help support me. Right, and if McCarthy want us to do that, Democrats are open to the conversation. But we're not just going to support him and his
extremists agenda. We're not just going to say, go back to being Speaker with the help of our votes and continue being subservient to these dangerous extremists in your party. What Speaker McCarthy would have to do is make a genuine deal with Democrats and say, no, I'm going to stop listening to the extremists. I'm actually going to govern
from the center. I'm going to work to get things through the House in a bipartisan manner, rather than continuing to make bills more and more extreme to satisfy these crazy members on the far right. Now, that would make Speaker McCarthy a truly historic speaker. He could fund the government, He could lead us through the rest of his term as Speaker by doing a lot of good things, bipartisan things for the country, and Speaker McCarthy would even gain the one thing that he doesn't have, which is a
good reputation. Sadly, I just don't know that he has the political courage or the wherewithal to actually do.
All of that. Is that message being delivered, It must be to him.
It is absolutely he understands this loud and clear. And there are even some people at the very beginning who knew Speaker McCarthy a lot longer than I have, even back in his days in the California Legislature, and have said he's fundamentally, or at least historically, a more moderate, reasonable person. He's always been pretty transactional, you know, not a transformative leader, not the most principled person on earth, but someone who's willing to work to get things done.
But that's not the kind of speaker that he's been. He's been a speaker who's just trying to hold on to his job for dear life by doing whatever these extremists, these you know, people like Matt Gays ask of him.
We're spending time with Congressman Seth Moulton, the Democrat from Massachusetts, of course, has taken a strong stand against the blockade of military promotions that's still in place by Senator Tommy Tuberville, the Republican from Alabama, joined us yesterday here on Bloomberg to talk about it. Congressman, I don't want to waste your time with a lot of soundbites, but it's important you hear what he said because it's been echoing around
the capital ever since. I specifically asked him about his decision to vote against the confirmation of the new Chairman of the Joint Chief's Staff, C. Q. Brown. Of course, that vote went to the floor of the Senate because of his blockade, and that's an important appointment. If you're not familiar with General Brown, he's an African American and obviously the most powerful position here in the United States military.
And I asked Senator Tuberville why he voted against the now Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who he has suggested is quote unquote woke. Here's what he said.
I think you'll do a good job. But I heard him say a few things that really didn't fit with me in terms of making our military better and better. You got to remember, you.
Know, we have a free though specifically Senator.
Well, we have a free country. We have things that we need to do to make sure that we can uphold and we can't do that without a great, hard, strong military. Now, I heard some things that he talked about about race and things that he wanted to mix into the military. Let me tell you something, our military is not an equal opportunity employer. We're looking for the best of best.
I did oppress him a bit on that Congressman to put a finer point on what he means by race mixing into the military. I think he means diversity programs. You don't have to talk about Senator Tuberville, but I wondered if you could reflect on what you know about the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General c Q. Brown.
Chairman c Q. Brown is one of the most impressive
military officers of his generation. I personally wrote a letter to the President of the United States recommending him for this job because I've been so impressed by him and by the way I've been impressed by him in the midst of a lot of other incredibly impressive officers, like the former commonat of the Marine Corps, David Berger, who has pioneered Force Designed twenty thirty, the modernization of the of the Marine Corps to meet the China threat that's
led all the other services now. He actually worked very closely with a General Brown of the Air Force and have advocated for these modernization efforts together. But these are some of the best military officers that I've ever seen, and I think c Q. Brown is truly the best of the best. And I say that as a United States Marine veteran with four combat tours in Iraq. You just played audio from a senator from Alabama who was
once a football coach. Apparently knows a bit about football, but does not know anything about serving in the military. He's never served himself, He's never made any sorts of sacrifices like that in his life. He doesn't understand the troops.
He certainly doesn't understand what they go through, and he obviously doesn't understand what it takes to make the best military fighting force on Earth, which fundamentally is equal opportunity, because if we are going to get the best of the best, then we have to have an organization that gives equal opportunity to all applicants. If you didn't have that, then you would immediately be saying no, this segment of the population, they don't have the same opportunity to join
the military. So if there are great women out there, or there are great Black Americans or whatever group this senator doesn't like, well, need not apply. We're not going to benefit from your talent in the United States military, and that will make the military a weaker force. So to me, this senator is very soft on national security, he's very weak on patriotism. And you know, maybe we're not supposed to say this, but he sounds like a
racist to me. Hard to imagine this guy from Alabama being a racist, but that's certainly what it sounds like to this marine.
I'm just going to leave that right there. Congressman Seth Moulton, we appreciate the time as always, Thanks for joining us today on what I know is a busy time on the hill, in a conversation you won't hear or see anywhere else. Thanks for being with us here on Bloomberg Radio, on satellite radio, and on YouTube. As we assemble our panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano, I'm glad to say are back together Bloomberg Politics contributors, and I say we start
right here. I also spoke, as I referenced earlier, with Congressman Jim Kleiber, and Marie and I both talked to him on balance of power. Immediately after our conversation with Senator Tuberville. We played that same remark for him, and here's what he said.
He is the worst of the worst. I have never said anything like that before publicly anyway. Turberville, to me, it's just the worst of the worst. The people of Alabama ought to be embarrassed by that.
That's the gentleman from South Carolina, of course, formerly in the Democratic leadership in the House, Rick Davis, where do we start here? We've talked a lot about Tommy Turberville, and he's clearly showing no signs of backing down. The chorus is getting louder urging him to do so. But if Chuck Schumer keeps bringing confirmation votes like this to the floor, what motivates him to stop?
Well, look, I mean, there's no way to clean up the backlog because of Coach Tuberville. You have almost three hundred and fifty officers in the US military who have not been confirmed by the United States Senate. I mean, it's a ghastly number that's only going up every month when these promotions come due, and there's no ability for the Senate to act because of him.
So let's be clear.
The Senate is trying to confirm these on a case by case basis, But if they tried to confirm all of them this way, it'd be other six hundred days. It would take of legislative action with virtually nothing other happening. So that's not a trade anybody's willing to make. You know, the senator from Alabama has a lot to learn, as we've heard from Seth Moulton about the military, and if I were him, I would start to learn more than I talk because every time he has a conversation on
this topic, he gets himself into trouble. It wasn't long ago we were reeling from his comments about why, you know, white nationalists should be given priority in the military. So I mean, if I were him, I would listen to the people of Alabama. He claims that that's what he puts is his top priority. Because I don't think the people of Alabama have these attitudes, Jeanie.
I've seen a lot of comments on Twitter about this interview. You're going to see a lot more on cable news later because everybody's been grabbed a piece of this. And the most common remark I've seen is about saying something out loud? Did he just say the truth out loud without realizing it here about race in the military.
He You know, I was so struck by this interview because what the senator said is that equal opportunity threatens our military. Our military is not an equal opportunity employer. I mean, just let that sink in for a moment, and maybe he should have a conversation with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who, even when they overthrew affirmative Action to many people's dismay last term, exempted our military institutions. All of this while the military struggles to
recruit young men and young women. So this is where we stand, and he is holding up these nominees and saying that the the Senate, at this point facing a shutdown, should take seven hundred hours, as your interview talked about, so that they can one by one hold these families and everyone else hostage while they debate each of these individual promotions. That is what the senator is talking about.
And I think Representative Multon was very clear in his language and rightly so, about what this suggests about the Senator's views. And it is a shame not just for the people of Alabama, but for the people across the United States and our US military. You guys talked about that op ed in the Washington Post. Everyone should go back and read it. This is dismal.
Three military service branch secretaries calling on Senator Tubberville to drop his blockade. Rick, you know General c Q. Brown. I wonder if you follow on Congressman Moulton's remarks, because this is a Trump appointed Secretary of the Air Force now Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, with a decorated career, a fighter pilot flew F sixteen's what else should we know?
Yeah, as chief of the Air Force, he distinguished himself. There's absolutely nothing that I could add to the distinguished SETH. Molton in his evaluation of CQ. Brown's incredible career in the military. And we should all be proud of the
fact that the military can take someone like CQ. Brown, mold them into the leader that he is, and have the wherewithal to be able to supply the president with a number of people who all are high quality and incredibly experienced and incredibly committed to the safety of our nation in the world as a choice for the Chief of the Joint Chiefs, and to actually to mean the job by saying, well, his only job is to advise
the president, as if that's not an important job. And again, I mean, it's almost hard to even respond to some of the really foolish things that coach Tuberville has to say. I mean, maybe if he feels more comfortable with football analogies, there are lots of jobs for coaches in the NFL, maybe that's his next employment.
Boy, Gdi Shanzey. No, there's another lawmaker on Capitol Hill staging a single man's stage against something. I don't even know how to say it, a lone lawmaker's blockade. In this case, it's Matt Gates, the congressman from Florida who's holding up the budget process. I actually asked Tommy Tubberville about him last night. Says he supports what Matt Gates
is doing. Gates took to the floor to talk about the most recent I guess lack of negotiation in the House and the idea that Speaker McCarthy and other Republicans might consider a continuing resolution. He's looking to fire the Speaker, as we know. Here's what he said.
The one thing I'd agree with my Democrat colleagues on is that for the last eight months, this House has been poorly led and we own that, and we have to do something about it. And you know what, my Democrat colleagues will have an opportunity to do something about that too, and we will see if they bail out our failed speaker I yielded back.
We will see. We talked to Congressman Malton about that, and we got an instant reaction, by the way, from Speaker McCarthy about what he's been hearing recently from the gentleman from Florida.
Have you seen Matt and what he said about me when we first started this look at people have got to get over personal differences. I'm focused on America. I think that's where America's looking right now as well. He never voted for me to start out with. I don't know, zoo, he's changing his position. He said a lot of things, and we waded through. The one thing I will always tell you is I'm never going to give up on America and that's where my focus is going to be.
My goodness, Genie, just imagine where we're going to be by the time Friday night arrives. And it's clearly inevitable that the government will be shutting down. Matt Gates can't wait to drop that motion to vacate is going to happen.
You know, I think it's not a question of if. It's a question of when. I mean, similar to the shutdown, it's not if anymore. It is when and if Democrats table it, if they help the speaker survive. And we heard Representative Multon tell you that that may be a good thing for Kevin McCarthy. But imagine this, he survives, let's go beyond this shutdown. What happens then? How could he manage a Republican caucus if his survival is dependent on the Democrats. I think the House at that point
would grind to a halt. So it is going to be a very very interesting few months, let alone just the next week. And I disagree with my friend Rick Davis. Please Rick, do not send Tommy Tupperville to the NFL jeepers. Let's put him someplace else, but don't have him in the NFL.
I'm not sure that would have happened anyway, But I'll tell you what, Rick, I I'd love to know where your head is, what you're hearing from you of friends and appropriations on the Hill. Because the Senate is advancing a continuing resolution, it does appear dead in the House. But I find it just amazing and ironic that as we now connect this to a border dispute, Speaker McCarthy says, this is about border security. If the President wants to keep the government open, he's got to come to terms
with this. But the Republican Homeland Security Appropriations Bill actually cuts funding for the agencies that secure the border. So if those Republican members who are blocking all of this got what they wanted, there'd be less money at the border. Can you help me make sense of it?
Yeah, Sadly, I think it's got a lot more to do with polling than it does to do with policy.
The reality is Kevin McCarthy started this entire shutdown sequence by saying the government's spending too much and it is I mean, there's no doubt about that, and he's been successful in negotiating deals with the President to rein in some of that spending, and of course the President thought he had a deal, and none of this should be happening because we should be basically marking up all these appropriation spills to the number that they agreed to and
passed in the United States House of Representatives. But then an ABC poll comes out and it shows that most Americans actually think that a shutdown is on the backs of the Democrats, not the Republicans, and that immigration is creeping up in the importance of the American public because you have a crisis at the border again.
So what do they do.
They pivot and.
Say, hey, look at read the ABC poll. We need to be talking about immigration this week, not spending, And so the pivot occurs. The reality is none of this gets us any closer to shut down, And unfortunately, most of the people I know on Keppel Hill have told me that there's not enough impetus to actually force a confrontation with the Freedom Caucus and therefore maybe elicit a a recall of the Speaker and then get the Democrat support. So I'm afraid we are, like everybody else's commented, headed
to a shutdown. And maybe then and only that, do these kinds of pressures start to weigh on the leadership of the House.
Rick reminds us there was a deal, Genie. I hate to keep bringing this back up myself, but the whole point of the debt ceialing deal was so that we would avoid all this madness. And the view from the White House is just that Joe Biden said, we made a deal, we shook hands, and they're not going to cut another deal with Speaker McCarthy. Does the Speaker have any credibility with this administration now?
No.
It's very tough because that was a hard fought deal, and we heard over the weekend the Secretary of Transportation saying we all gave up a lot in that deal. That wasn't a deal the White House wanted, It wasn't what Democrats wanted, but both sides gave. They shook hands. And Kevin McCarthy, because to seth Moulton's point, he cannot control these five to ten conservative members, has backed down from that in a desperate attempt to save his job.
And where we are now is that he is trying to point fingers at everybody else, from the Senate to Senator Schumer to the President. The reality is he needs to point fingers where they lie in his own caucus, and he needs to stand up, and he needs to be willing to say I will walk away from his job, just like his Speaker Bainer and just like Speaker Ryan before him on the Republican side, because this caucus is at this point ungovernable and we are all suffering as a result of it.
Yeah, it's amazing. We always talk about how we're in uncharted territory here, but the fact of the matter is there's a lot of history repeating itself and that could continue for the Speaker. Rick Davis and Geni Shanzino. Glad we've got both today. Our signature panel on sound on it's debate night. We're going to turn to that next.
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A government shutdown likely in just four days, it's always good to know our elected representatives are working on solutions on the issues that matter, like chocolate milk in schools. Enter Congressman Tom Tiffany, the Republican from Wisconsin. I guess read the journal of the American Dietetic Association, as he referenced on the floor, read that removing flavored milk from
schools results in kids while drinking less milk. And this member of the Dairy Farmer's Caucus delivered a message from the House floor, complete with a sign, come and take it.
Milk is full of rich nutrients that support bone growth and development, and millions of children enjoyed drinking it. We should not be funding rules that would limit our children's access to delicious and nutritious products like milk. I urge my college to vote yes on this bipartisan amendment, and I reserve.
He even had his own version of the come and take it flag, which swapped out looking at the picture of it here swapped out the cannon for a carton of milk. Rick and Genie surely want to weigh in on this, Genie Shanzano. It's the cause of our time, I guess, chocolate, milk and schools.
That's right, Joe and Joe, do you know today is National Chocolate Milk Day. So how appropriate that you are talking about this drink invented in Jamaica. Although I have to say I disagree with the representative. It has a lot of sugar. It needs to get out of kids' schools. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to disappoint, but you know it's gotta go.
Spoken like an educator as you are, Genie. He's introduced by the way, Rick, the milk is indisputably liked by kids. Act or twenty twenty three, known to some simply as the Milk Act. Will it pass?
You know?
I hope.
So.
I know you don't need dairy, and I know that sugar's bad for you, but I want momentum. I want chocolate milk in the schools. That was a reason I went to school was to get a chocolate milk. And so I mean, yes, disappoint so many school age children.
Always the best time with Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano, even in times like these. Thanks for listening to The Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington DC at one pm Eastern Time. At Bloomberg dot Com