Fmr. AR Gov Asa Hutchinson on 2024, GOP Message

the people of Florida. I don't spend my time trying to smear other Republicans. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. So is that the new normal? Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, the day after the most unrestrained state of the Union in modern history. Will bring you through the issues in the president's own words, and we'll hear reaction from a number of Republicans, including our conversation today with former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, who

is considering a run himself for the Republican nomination. Later, we'll dig into the speechcraft with Democratic strategist Jim Assina, former Deputy White House Chief of Staff, former campaign manager for President Obama, and analysis from our signature panel. Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis are with us. So the speech ran over an hour, and it covered a lot of ground. Because the soul of this nation is strong, because the backbook and the backbone of this

nation is strong. Because the people of this nation are strong. The State of the Union is strong. The line at last from President Biden last night, what was his first official State of the Union address, which featured open sparring with Republicans in the House. Instead of making a wealthy pay their fair share, some Republicans. Some Republicans want medicare and so security sunset. I'm not saying it's a majority of Remember the Rick Scott planned we talked about you.

Anybody contact my office, I'll give you a copy. I'll give you a copy of the proposal. Doesn't vote, well, I'm glad to see you now. I'll tell you I enjoyed conversion. Well, just to taste there. As the President referred to the Rick Scott proposals as sunset entitlement programs, We're gonna walk through a few of the most important issues that motivated the president's critics and his supporters. With someone who understands how this town works and also understands

the view from heartland Republicans. That would be Asa Hutchinson, the former governor of Arkansas, is with us, former congressman, former director of the d e A in our Washington studios. Governor, welcome back to Bloomberg. It's great to see you. It's always good to be with you. I appreciate your being here. You know, Joe Biden, what did you think of his approach last night? Well, I thought he really started off

with a warm greeting. I think it was really good of him to recognize and congratulate the new Republican control of Congress and Speaker McCarthy. So I thought those were really good touches. Uh. You know, this is an important occasion whenever you bring the executive legislative branch and actually

the judiciary that's represented there. Uh, it's an incredibly important exercise for our democracy, and it's a good opportunity for the president and President Biden took full advantage of that when he had the bully pulpit, and he used it and it was I think somewhat of a campaign speech. But that's okay. Uh. Now, there's plenty that I disagree with the Republicans disagree with. It did sound a little bit like parliament in that exchange, yelling back and forth.

I was actually watching on TV and it seemed muted at the time, But as you play it, you see a little bit more of the vigorousness protests. Yeah. Look, you've been in that room before. Things have changed a lot in the last decade since Joe Wilson. Whenever the line was uh, and you do wonder where is the

line now? If there is one governor, I feel like I have a sense of what your answer is going to be when it comes to decorum in an environment like that, did did Republicans do themselves a disservice yelling liars? I mean, at a certain point it it sounded like a game show in there. Yeah, it's wrong. I mean, whether you agree or disagree with policy, he's a president United States. You show respect to the office, you show respect to the Institution of Congress. And no, that is very,

very disappointing. And we've seen that somewhat on both sides. Uh uh and it gets intense. But no, that's that's not respectful, it's not helpful. It's not bringing our country together. And there's ways to express disagreement other than the shouting and uh the back and forth. Can you put the genie back in the bottle there? Or is this what we see every year? You know, the politics has a certain trajectory and we're in a tough spot right now when it comes to getting along. Uh, it's hard to know.

I think it's worth trying. I believe that we need more civil discord us uh. And it starts with leadership. You can't expect the base of the party left and right to be less angry if our leaders appeal to that anger. And so it starts with leadership. And uh, you know, I I think that Speaker McCarthy did a good job last night. Whenever you saw some uh yelling out in the aisles, he's frustrated parents Yeah, stop stocks stop, you know know, and he had told him advanced or

we want to be respectful on this. This is an opportunity to to listen and we fight later on the principles. But uh, so I hope that we as a country can come together more can be more engaged with problem solving rather than creating chaos. And it starts with leadership. We always expect, well, you know America's divided, Well, you know we are divided. I did. But leaders have to

try to bring people together, particularly on key issues. And that's where I think it's responsibility of a president to try to appeal to the best instincts of America and not our worst instincts. And that's hard sometime an environment where it is so harsh, uh, so angry, and and so much uh back and forth. But that's leadership and responsible, not just the presidential level, but really at the governor's levels and Congress. We all need to lead and set

that example. Well, I left to drill down on a couple of issues, but but first your reaction to h to the response your successor, The now governor of Arkansas, Sarah Huckaby Sanders, spoke after the president. Here's a taste of that. Whether Joe Biden believes this madness or simply too weak to resist it, his administration has been completely hijacked by the radical left. The dividing line in America is no longer between bright or left. The choice is

between normal or crazy. It's time for a new generation of Republican leadership. Governor, what did you make of the words chosen there? She clearly was comfortable, she was at home, she delivered the message. Uh. Some thought it had a pretty dark edge. Well, she's an effective communicator, and she communicated in a message to uh the voters that uh what she felt in her heart that the culture has gone too far uh to the left, too radical agenda,

and this administration is supporting that. And there is a basis to raise that claim. Whatever they're passing rules the Department of Labor to uh, you know, allow companies to use social uh factors in determining the right investments of retirement funds. So that's just one example. But I think she's expressing the frustrations of a lot of Middle America

as she articular aided her message. But also she she just simply said, it's not about pro government solutions, big government solutions, you know, it's more about freedom and how we can come out of this together. So it was a message that was certainly conservative, It was to the Republican base and made her case very effectively. Well, you're you're also the governor of Arkansas who vetoed the bill to restrict to restrict medical procedures and other care for

trans youth. I bring that up because some saw this as exclusive to an extent where I get a sense that you have tried to promote the bigger tent philosophy of the Republican Party. Are you at odds at all with that message from last night? Well, I mean, first and am am I being accurate there? And well there's two ankers to questions. Whenever you look at the message last night. I'm an agreement. Uh. You know, I think that we uh should rightfully, Americans are concerned about our

culture and UH. To me, you fight for your cultural values through your community, through your families, through your churches and synagogues, uh, and through parental involvement in schools. The response is not always, well, I disagree with a cultural issue here, so let's pass a law and use a federal mandate. And uh. And I think that that's where I come down. That we as a conservatives, so we should limit the size the government. We should limit the

role of government in our lives. And that applies both to the left and right. And so that's a way you approach how we consider our culture and and how you want to fight for the values that are important to you. Uh. In terms of of where we are as a party and the Republican base, I think that people are are tired of the back and forth. They're

tired of chaos. They want to have problem solving leadership that's conservative but also looks to the needs of Americans and say, this is a problem, let's look for a solution, and if we can work together, that's terrific. It's widely known that you're considering a run for president. You've suggested you might decide by April. UH. I know that there's

a window here for these deliberations. How will you make up your mind based on what you just said about appealing to a national audience in this political climate, what are the factors for you? Well, I'm about a consistent conservative message and solving problems, and so that's why I'm going to go to Tucson in two weeks. I'm going to have a Border Solutions UH summit there where we're gonna be looking at solutions for what I believe is one of the great challenges that we face in America.

An immigration system that's broke, a border that's not protected and fitting all coming in. So it's solution oriented. It's a conservative message, but it's also about leaders that bring out the best of America. Uh, And that to me is what a president, what governor should do is not the appeal to our worst instincts, but appeal to the best of America. That's what great leaders do. And so

that's a message that's important to me. Yes, there's a question as to whether that's the right message for our country at this time my senses, yes, But that's what I'm working on as I traveled to Iowa next week to Tucsa on the later on and I want to see what that response is. It sure sounds like you're running governor. How do you beat Donald Trump, who trends who wants to own the border issue. Well, I think

he sort of beats himself. Uh. You know, you look at what happened on January six and what how he's conducted himself even since he lost the election. And it's not bringing out the best of America, not bringing out the best of our democracy. It's appealing to our worst instincts. And so I see his support and diminishing over time. Uh, it's up to candidates, those who might run, to make the case that we have good ideas, but we also can do a better job of meeting the needs of

Americans across the board and uniting our country. So, uh, that's a test that remains to be seen. But I think it's important that we offer leadership that not only is the right direction for America. That's a counter to what we heard last night with President Biden, but it's also a course course correction for the Republican Party, and I believe that we need that. Think about Joe Biden at the Speaker's rosterm last night, what that experience was.

You think about being on a debate stage with Donald Trump, governor who wants any part of this business. It's hard. It is hard. I think about the family and what people have to go through, and it really demands too much. But uh, you think also about the sacrifice have made

for our country. So those are minimal. It's certainly a contact sport, but you know, our country is so great and has been good to me, And uh, I do believe that when you're in a time of adjustment, uh, course correction, if you've got something to offer, you all to be in the game. We're spending time with the former governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson. You mentioned the border. You're on your way to Tucson. Uh. There's been enormous

criticism against Joe Biden. Every Republican and I talked to you last night blamed him for the fentinal crisis in this country, for supporting what they referred to as open borders. You're the former director of the d e A. Can I ask you just philosophically here when we consider the experience we had in the nineteen eighties with drug enforcement,

the hunger for drugs in this country is undeniable. If you shut down the Mexican border, that fentinyal would come in from somewhere else, wouldn't it from China, from somewhere else? How do you stop this problem when it's a demand issue just as well as a security issue. Well, you're absolutely right, and the answer is that whenever you have coach the problem of drugs coming into our country, you have to do more to secure the border, but you also have to do more to reduce the demand in

our country. And fentnol is exploded across the board. There's a huge education effort that's now ongoing, but we're a little bit late in that. Uh. And so not only do we have to do the education side, but also the investment in addiction counseling and trying to pull people out of the addiction cycle that they're in because it leads to death. Uh. And so you've got to do all of that. Now. Last night was a real opening because the President said, Uh, if you don't give me

immigration reform, give me the resources. And that is a real opportunity for the Republican Congress to come in and say, let's put more in our border patrol and in technology to protect the border. Let's invest in that because the President said he would support that, and so there's an opportunity there. Comprehensive immigration reform is going to have to wait till we secure that border. But we are a land of immigrants, and that's an important part of the

message as well. We want to have that legal flow, we want to have that energy in our society and and the fabric that makes up our democracy. That's immigrants are such an important part of There's a lot to talk about there and I'm sure that you'll expand upon it. In Tucson. That's an event that will I'm sure be

covering here. Governor, Thank you for coming to see us when you make this announcement, when you make this decision, I look forward to the conversation because we want to follow you, of course on the trail here in this important election cycle. Thanks for coming to join us here in Washington. Look forward to being back. Thank you, Asa Hutchinson with us, the former governor on the fastest hour in politics. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast.

Catch the program live weekdays at five pm Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen love on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven Turkey, Bloomberg Intelligence reporting the US debt ceiling, editors fraught stage. The headline Biden's address heightens tension on debt ceiling spending cuts. So did it get

worse last night? That's where things seemed to turn in the room when he got to the debt ceiling right, and he started referring to Trump. He started talking about sunsetting social Security, and that's when, of course he started here in the heckling and the booing. Karine John Pierre, the Press secretary, that they said the President called them out when night was the President called out members right as we're talking about Jerry and how they were responding.

He called out members out on live television in front of millions of Americans and effectively put them on the defense. That's what we did. That's what the President did, is put them on the defense. We assembled our panel now the day after Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzano Shrilly Bleary from a late night here in Washington. Genie, is this true? Did he actually make things more complicated with the speech last night? You know, I don't think

he made it more complicated. I don't think it changes the reality that this is going to be a fight that goes down to June July when they're gonna have to come to an agreement. But I do think the reality is is that the Republicans have long been saying that, you know, on the one hand, you hear from the majority from sorry from the speaker, that you know, medicare so security off the table, and there have been some Republicans which was the President's point. Who have said that

that's not the case. He was trying to make that point, and that's what set them off into this firestorm because I believe that the Republicans in the House sink. Their position, by and large is that it's off the table. Um. If it's off the table, it shouldn't be much of an issue, and the screaming makes you think that maybe there is some difference in opinion there. Well, Look, Republicans were offended. Rick. I don't know if you were as a Republican, but bringing out the Rick Scott pamphlet, uh

didn't seem to work very well last night. Is this going to create an additional trust issue between Kevin McCarthy and Joe Biden? Up until that point in time, the speech was going swimmingly, and there was a really generous and and a very civil welcome to the President, which I don't think anybody would have predicted going in. Obviously, Speaker McCarthy was telling his caucus, Hey, I want civility

and the chamber when the president's there. But like the President bated the chamber, bated the Republicans and and tried to make it sound like the Republican Party was looking to sunset social Security, and the reality is there's a small faction of people who have absolutely no ability to make that the policy of the party. Have been decried by every leader within the party, and and I didn't really see why that was necessary to to create that

kind of bait. Ultimately, it did disrupt the chamber significantly, and I don't think that's appropriate. But uh, but then when Joe by and said, well, you know, look, uh, I'm glad now that we've got an agreement that nobody's gonna touch so Security, it kind of like that was what the Republicans wanted to hear. That's like gonna be in every single re election commercial. You know that Joe Biden agrees with the Republicans that we shouldn't be touching

social Security. So, honestly, don't know what they got out of it. He's talking about it again today, so clearly it's part of his political message. Um, but I thought it backfired on when he got off script he's talking about it. Of course, the road show begins. Jeannie listened

to President Biden the day after in Wisconsin. We've had a spirited debate last night with my Republican friend, My Republican friends, they seem shocked when I raised the plans of some of their members and their caucus to cut Social Security and Marjorie Taylor Grid and others. Two happens. It a liar liar, minds me of a liar liar house on fire. He pulled out the Rick's Got pamphlet again, liar liar, pass on fire. Uh, Genie, you're naming Marjorie

Taylor Green. Uh. To Rick's point, is he baiting? Is he encouraging this kind of behavior? Yeah? The reality is he's baiting because this is what the base wants to hear. They want to know that he has the energy and the vigor if he's going to run again. This is absolutely what it is to go toe to toe with Donald Trump and the Republicans. That's how he won in

twenty That's how they did well in two. And they are not gonna be satisfied with a candidate, even if it's an incumbent president who can't, who doesn't have the vigor to do that. And I would say, you know, he was baiting McCarthy even prior. You know, Rick and I were sitting there, you were on the Hill, we were all watching. What's the first thing he said? When he handed him copy of the speech, he turned around and said, I don't want to ruin your ritation, but

I look forward to working with you. That is part of the White Houses and the administration in the can paints efforts to try to keep pointing to the fact that McCarthy has a very tenuous hold on this Republican House and that they are trying to keep inserting a wedge. The constant references to Marjorie Taylor Green, you know, the crazy lady in the fur coat with the balloon and everything else. That's what we're going to hear. A prey ski was the was the look last night, um Rick?

Was that the beginning of the goating, you know, turning around shaking Kevin McCarthy's hand just to to get the attention of the never Kevin's Or are we making too much of that now? I think we're making too much of that. I mean, that is a well worn Biden phrase. I mean, you know we can trot that out almost all the time. Make no mistake another great one, he used constantly. Let me say it again, how many times we have to hear that don't say it again. Let's

finish the job. I think was so I don't read much into that. And and honestly, I look at the meeting the two of them had earlier in the month, you know, to actually talk about the dead ceiling, which actually didn't get much attention last night that I would have thought it had um And it was very civil and very welcoming and very gracious after all the sort of you know, pushing and shoving in advance of it. And so, look, I think this is a Congress he

can get business done with. There were a number of very good bipartisan opportunities within the speech. I just don't understand on the issue of soil security Medicare, when he knows that there's going to be no effort in Congress to do anything about it, why he would bring that up in the way he did. He could have easily said, I'm glad we all agree that we're not going to touch it. You know, it's in the lock box, is what the old phrase used to be. And and he didn't.

He took the opportunity to try and bait the crowd, and and they knew what they were going to get into. They were looking for those screams. They were hoping that the Republicans would take them on, because that undermines and puts Kevin McCarthy on the defensive because they know Kevin McCarthy wanted a civil discourse. So I mean, like, you can really make this anyway you want it. The bottom line is, it is what we're talking about, not all

the programs, right. I mean, so it's distracting, I think to their message. Uh and unless that indeed is the message, which I'm ready to go fight Republicans, and that's certainly a campaign theme. But uh, and maybe Jennie's right that that's what they were really trying to get out of this. It's just the idea that he's ready for a fight. I spoke after the speech. By the way, one of the other topics that got a lot of jeering that

got people were chanting border. There was some booing, Uh was was border security immigration, border security reform, immigration reform, which the President brought up and and and you heard Asa Hutchinson talking earlier, former director of the d e A about the federal crisis. I heard just about every Republican in stat Hall brought this up, including Congressman Andy Ogle's Republican from Tennessee, who was one of those new members who decided to shout out at the president last night.

He told us flat out, he said, I said, it's your fault, was what he yelled in the House chamber. Here he is in stat Hall after the speech talking with us. I was taken aback, quite frankly offended when he talked about his solution for our southern border. You know, the finnel that's flowing into this country is his fault. The fact that every town in America is now a border town is his fault. The women and children they try to cross our border or sexually assaulted, that's his fault. Genie.

Among the issues last night that seemed to get some bipartisan embrace, police reform, cracking down on big tech, any trust, the border not so much. Well, that's right. It was almost as divisive as the debt ceiling and the issue of social security and Medicare. And you know, this is a winning issue for the Democrats. It has been one that has Obviously, we have a crisis at the border. We've had one for a long time, goes back decades.

The reality is this is no you know, no more Joe Biden's fault than the deficit is his fault alone. It goes back decades. That said, he is the president, and we do have a problem at the border, and they have not been able to push through even a Democratic Congress that they had for a little period of time, and immigrant aation reform policy, and we don't suspect we'll

get one. But you can also call out the Republicans who don't seem anxious to get one either, but who are more content on using this as a wedge issue in the election, and it is a winning one because again, there is a crisis, there is a problem. Rick and Genie are with us for the hours we pick up the pieces on the State of the Union address from last evening, and I want to add another voice of experience here. We spoke exactly one week ago, as a

week before the address on crafting the speech. That was Jim Messina, the CEO of Messina Group, was former deputy chief of staff President Obama, was the campaign manager for Obama's reelect in a week later, and of course the day after we review what we saw and heard here. Jim Messina, welcome back to Bloomberg. My pleasure, Thanks for having me. So we talked in advance of the speech about the craftsmanship that goes into this and some of the rituals at the White House. I've just got to

start with last night. Is this the new normal for the State of the Union? An interactive speech that includes hecklers and booing along with the standing ovations? Gosh, I hope not. I mean, I don't think it was a proud moment last night for members of Congress yelling at their president. Um. So, I hope this is not the new normal. Well. President Biden seemed to almost enjoy it.

How important is that ability to kind of be able to manage whatever is being thrown at you when you're standing up there and the speaker's ROSTERM did he succeed in that way? Um? I think he didn't. You know, It's interesting. My reaction to it was he kind of seemed like a happy warrior. He seemed a little Reagan esque um in that, like, you know, the smile on his face, but happy to give it a little too uh. And I thought that was a new side of Joe Biden.

That was new And I think, you know, pretty positive. The overnight focus groups look pretty good. Yeah, That's why I wonder though, if you if you see that back and forth, if I can call it that, you might call it disrespect as something that might have actually been a positive exercise for people to watch this. Or was it flat rude? Um? Well, just with an American I think it was rude. But I do think that Biden handled it pretty well, um and kind of came out

on top that said. If you're just a normal voter, and Joe, you and I've talked about this in the past, the average voter thinks about politics four minutes a week, and I think they look at that food fight and are not impressed with their members of Congress, And I think in general it's not great. That said, counterpunching is an absolute crucial sport in American politics, and Biden proved last night he can CounterPunch. What way to make a living?

The President congratulated Kevin McCarthy on his speakership at the very beginning of the speech. He congratulated him and turned in the speaker's rost him to shake his hand. Was that part of the strategy to rattle the the never Kevin portion of the House Republican Caucus, or was it simply the right thing to do. It was simply the right thing to do. I think Joe Biden has always been the guy who wants to reach out across party lines.

When I was Obama's the deputy White House chief of staff, you know, we would take Biden and aut Obama to the Hill to negotiate with the Republicans because he was so well thought of, and this is his natural terrain. He you know, likes that kind of thing. He understands it, and I think it's it was in his wheelhouse. And I think, as you and I were talking earlier, this is the respect that American voters want. They want their elected officials to work together. They're sick of the food fights.

The speech lasted over an hour, Jim, How well was it crafted? Uh? We we for instance, had to wait till the end. Towards the end, at least for geopolitics, there was more of the economic sort of victory lap up at the top. How was the architecture of this speech and how well was the time spent? I think it was really well spent, because you heard me say

this over and over and over. But American elections or economic elections, and so it is Biden's job one to get the economic messaging right, and focusing on that is absolutely a political imperative. But it's also back again to these swing voters and these normal humans who are out there watching this. They want to hear that stuff. They want to hear him say this is how we're going to get out of this tough economic time. This is

why inflation is getting better, and here's why. And so that was absolutely imperative, and I give the administration real credit for sticking onto it and not taking the bait and spending their time talking about Chinese balloons. Never mentioned the word balloon. Was that the right call? It was the right call? Like, that's a side show. Um, It's an interesting side show that you and I were obsessed with, but it's a side that doesn't affect normal humans lives

over an hour? Did you push it too long? You mentioned people talk about politics or think about it for four minutes a week. He asked for more than an hour of their time last night. He did. But remember that the normal humans who see this are mostly getting their reactions from from news outlets like you, Um, and you're gonna distill it into the moments that matter. I think he had some real work to do last night,

and it took a while to do some of that stuff. Um. You know, I'm always for brevity because I think brevity is always better. But that said, I think he used his time well and did what he had to do. Um what I've had a ten minutes shorter, sure, But in the end, I don't think it was a terrible thing. How about bipartisan promise here? And I don't mean to be falsely optimistic, but there did seem to be some moments last night. Police reform was one when Kevin McCarthy

chose to stand and applaud. There were others including antitrust, big tech for instance, where we saw, you know what, there might be some paths it's actually clear legislation in this new Republican lead house. Did you feel the same way? I totally did. I think there's three pathways. Um. The first is big tech, uh, and they're both parties want to reiin in big Tech a little bit um for different reasons, which is you and I can talk later about whether or not they can actually get something past,

but both parties want to get something passed. The second area is China. There's bipartisan consent is that we are in a global uh you know, competition with China, and both parties want to work together, and there's you know, bipartisanship on the very first vote of last a couple of weeks ago, when the Republicans took over the House to create a special committee in China. UM, and then the police reform stuff. You know, I was very happy to see Kevin McCarthy stand up and say that's someplace

he wants to work with the president. I think it's great smart to bring Tyree Nichols parents into the chamber for that moment. Then absolutely, and you know, this is something that they came pretty close to, you know, getting some bipartsit and census last year. Um, it didn't get there, but this is someplace where you know, Republicans have like no sort of game with African American voters and with

voters and cities right now. And McCarthy wants to stay Speaker of the House, so getting something done on that would be very helpful. And obviously African American voters are the bedrock of the Democratic Party. So Joe Biden wants to get something on here. Well, Jim Messina, you helped

to orchestrate the re election of Barack Obama. If you were in charge in helping to re elect Joe Biden, maybe you will be Uh, how do you play off that speech last night and knowing what the backdrop is politically here with all the madness with China last week, for instance, do you wait? Is there any rush to announce?

I think there is, Um, I would wait. You know, Bush and Obama announced in April of the off year, and I think it's worth waiting that long because I think what he needs to now do is go sell this to the American people. Last night was a good start, but as you know, he's on the road today. He's in Wisconsin, he goes to Florida after that, the first or the vice presidents on the road. They're putting members

of the cabinet out in twenty states. Um. You know, politics is repetition, and if there's anything you can kind of criticize the administration for in the first two years, it's that they kind of got pulled off their economic message and didn't continue to say it over and over

and over. And I ran Obama's campaign, you know, he would say to me, He's like, I'm so sick of saying the same thing over and over, and I joke with him, yep, and you get to do it tomorrow in Ohio and you know, that's just what you do. And they've got to continue to do that. They've got to be looking at that ap pole, Jim. Thirty seven percent last week and seven percent of Democrats say they would like for him to run again. How do they

get that number higher? Is it what you're saying? Yeah, absolutely, and it's you know, it is being very clear on what he wants to do with the second term, which I think last night the job is not finished. He said that twelve times, and I think that. I think that's absolutely the first step. And now it's going on the road and going straight at it. Jim Massina, the CEO of Messina Group, former deputy chief of staff for President Obama, of course campaign manager for the reelection campaign.

It's great to have had your analysis around the speech. Jim. We'd love to be in touch a lot more often in the year ahead. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us live week days at five eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the I Heart Radio app and the Bloomberg Business happen. We're listening on demand wherever you get your podcast. So President Biden did mention China last night. He just never

used the word balloon. As we reassembled our panel, Rick Davis and Jennie Chanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors, Jim as Cina says it was smart Rick to not go there, not not drilled down on the episode that was the Chinese spy balloon, even as they're continuing to pull wreckage off the floor of the ocean here. Uh, did he do enough on China though, this is, you know, the the great challenge to democracy over the next couple of decades. Here we had an Air Force general recently predict war

by it was. It was in the back end of the speech, back half of the speech, and he didn't spend actually a lot time on it. Yeah. I thought that the really strangeness of the speech was that it was all about domestic policy, um, very little about the rest of the world that we live in. And yet these are the real, you know, challenging policies coming up,

you know, in in in the future. So if he wanted a futuristic discussion, you know, he didn't talk about much, the war in Ukraine, working on its first anniversary, amazing unity that he's created in in In, UH, in NATO, and the need to you know, bring the fight to more countries so that we can put more pressure on Vladimir Putin. Didn't poke at him hardly at all. UH didn't even understand what he was saying about China in like,

you know, who would want to be cheap um? Well, most most of the dictators in the world wants to be UH would be the premier of China in a minute. So I just honestly didn't understand it. We've got trade and balances, We've got you know, infrastructure issues with China on a supply chain, We've got you know, human rights issues with China. We've got aggression in the South China. See I mean, we're literally flying sorties over there and

running into Chinese. I mean, I won't even get into the balloon, which I believe was Marjorie Taylor's grain attempt with her outfit is to be a balloon. Is that true? There are a lot of people who would she would just float away. I don't understand. Let's get to that moment. The thing is they tried to get some clever writing or at least, you know, an applause lining here. I committed to work with China where we can advance American interests and benefit the world, but make no must take

about it. As we made clear last week, if China threatens our sovereignty, we will act to protect our country, and we did. It was a little bit of an I roll for some Republicans. Their genie was that enough.

You know, I don't think it was enough. And I was reminded during this speech about your conversation with Cody Keenan who served with Obama a speech writer you talked about, I think yesterday, and he was making the case that as Obama got into his later year, into was later years of his administration, wasn't running again, he sort of was able to free himself and talk about things that

he wanted to talk about. And I almost had this sense hearing that that had Biden not been thinking about running for re election, we would have had a very

different speech last night. It would have been a lot more focused on what he has told people like Maggie Haberman and others is the most important issue of his administration, which is the fight against Russia and Ukraine and the confrontation with China, and I just kept imagining that this would have been so different if he didn't feel sort of shackled to the idea of running because by some estimations,

Balloon gets fifteen words, China gets one eighty three. And as Rick can tell you, this thing went on really long, so there was time to talk about it. And I'm not trying to rub against Rick because I won the bet, but we all know I did um But you know that is the reality I think is it would have been a far more serious focus on China and frankly, much more unifying because, as you just talked out with Jim Messina, that's something that Republicans and Democrats actually agree on. Well,

that's a good point as opposed to Ukraine. There's been a little bit of friction there, and I thought Rick that the President would would highlight this more, remembering it was the focus of the speech a year ago. He's got the Ukrainian ambassador to the US there in the gallery, also got to that very late. Didn't spend a lot of time trying to convince skeptics in the room that we needed to continue to support this war effort. Yeah.

I mean, you can't have it both ways. You can't go out and say publicly all the time that the Republics are getting soft on Ukraine, which they are not. But it's a device he's used and and and you know, and then at the same time not actually try to make the pitch for it. Um, we're spending billions and billions of dollars on this initiative, and there are issues with accountability, but the reality is it is an area

that you have widespread unanimity on in Congress. And and and I'm surprised there wasn't you know, a call for more to do more, especially around uh, strengthening the the sanctions regime. Um. You know, a year ago he said he was going to bring all these oligarchs to the ground. He didn't do a victory lap on that. I thought that was something that was going to be, you know, sort of the highlight of the speech a year going.

Just left it all out this time. All right, we have just a couple of minutes here in this portion of the program. I'd love to hear from both of you quickly on performance. Jennie, did he deliver the speech? Well, there's been questions about kind of the quick pace, slowing things down and starting to pay more attention to the crowd. How was the execution? The execution was he did what he wanted to do, which he showed he was vigorous and can confront the Republicans and seemed, to Messina's point,

like he was enjoying it. That was a win for him. Was it the best speech we've ever heard? No, certainly not. But he did the job he was setting out to do, which is to prove he is the man for Democrats on the ground in twenty four or at least to try to you know, stop the bleeding if you will

that's going on in the polls. I think, well, you could do worse than happy Warrior, I think is how Jim Messina described him in the address last night, where but I was fascinated by something you were talking about earlier today on balance of power here on Bloomberg and that that's the nod to applause. How did he do actually executing the speech to get the most he could out of the crowd in the room. Yeah, I thought

he did an exceptional job. You know, when talking about you know, Bono and and Ruth Cohen and some of the others that he had in the the the balcony with um, with his with his wife first Lady Joe Biden, and and he would build this great story. He would talk about how it affected him personally to talk, you know, he interwove their stories with America. And then when he got to the punchline, everyone was already embracing it. And so that was some of the most enthusiastic reactions, especially

around police reform. And and I on a bipartisan basis, and I thought, that's the Joe Biden that's gonna hit

it out of the ballpark. And then he kind of, you know, dimmed that light by getting into this you know, sort of second half of the speech, which was just a rundown of every lobbyist reeam in Washington, all the things that you chuck into these state of the unions that make them actually nonsensical, you know, and just this race a name, more and more policies, more and more things that frankly aren't probably ever going to see the

light of day. When he pulls off the nod to applause or just the applause line, Genie, does do you get the sense he was rehearsing this all weekend or this is just a good night for Uncle Joe. Oh, he was rehearsing it all weekend. I think it goes

further back than the weekend. You know. I do give the team credit, um, but something that we talked about last night, they left a lot of important things out the Turkey Syria earthquake victims, a huge misstep I think on the part of his team not getting that in there. Final thoughts from the panel straight ahead, this is Bloomberg. So George Santos showed up early try to get a coveted aisle seat for the State of the Union, his first as an elected member of Congress. He pulled it off.

He got it. He got a seat plight on the aisle so he would come face to face with Joe Biden. That part didn't work out so well, Actually none of it did. He never did come face to face with Biden, who found his way around him. But he did come face to face with the senator from Utah, the former governor of Massachusetts, former standard bearer of the Republican Party, Mitt Romney, who has captured on video being very honest with Mr Santos. There were no microphones near them, But

it doesn't take a lot to read the lips. And these were corroborated by reports on the floor. Quote, you don't belong here, he said, you should be embarrassed. Some reports say he said a lot more than that, and I things I can't repeat on the air, but I can't speak to those quite the exchange on the floor. And so scores of reporters are waiting for Mitt Romney as he comes off the house floor to find out, well,

what the heck did you say? That investigation be sitting in the back road and sank quiet instead of parading in front of the president and uh, and the people coming into the room, he says, he you know that he embellished his record. Look, embellishing is saying you've got an any when he had an A minus lying And what is saying you you graduated from college, you didn't even attend. And he shouldn't be in Congress and they're going to go through the process and hopefully get him out.

And uh, but he shouldn't be there. And if he had any shame at all, he wouldn't be there. Why did you make a point to say that though he wouldn't I mean, it was kind of out of your weight. He was standing right there in the aisle, shaking hands with everybody. Did he respond to you, Uh, he may have. I didn't hear anything he said. He did seem like he was responding. They're walking and talking as this happens. And George Santos making his way back to his office

today after what must have been kind of a weird night. Well, he was greeted by reporters as well as he is every day, and he's very unhappy with Mitt rock The first time in history that I've been told to shut up and go to the backroom, especially by people who come from a privileged background. Uh. And it's not going to be the last. And I'm never going to shut

up and go to the back of the room. And I think it's reprehensible that the Senator would say such a thing to me, and of the meaning way he said. It wasn't very Mormon of him. It wasn't very Mormon of him. And George Santos went on to tweet Hey, Mitt Romney and tagged him just a reminder, you will

never be president, Gene Chanzano when Rick Davis. This really has become the George Santos segment at the end of every program Mitt Romney delivers for us today, what would possess Rick Mitt Romney to get involved in this one? For a lot of these guys who really hold the Congress and reverence, think it's the highest form of public service that you can make, are offended that this pretender has made his way into the Chamber and is now using as a platform to uh, you know, basically turn

it into a comedy show. I'm I'm highly confident. Mitt Romney looks at him with disdain because of the fact that, you know, not only has he uh lied to get his way into the Chamber, but he's not using the comedy of the Chamber at his greatest advantage to basically enhance his his his his, you know, sort of fame if you want to call it. That. Did someone need

to say it? Genie and why the senator from Utah? Yeah, it wasn't very Mormon, but it may have been more finish of Mitt Romney and he needed to say it. And sick puppy is about as bad as it gets out of Senator Romney's mouth. Oh, don't start telling dog stories. God, not with Mitt Romney. Genie and Rick, thank you. What great analysis and smart conversation over the past twenty four hours. Thank you for your insights. Thanks to Asa Hutchinson and Jim Messina. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.