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What happens when there's a debate and no one wins. Welcome to hour two of Sound on this day. After the big debate and Donald Trump's counter programming last night, prompting a lot of sound bites but no apparent shakeup in the landscape here.
The Republican race for president.
We're going to be joined this hour by Lonnie Chen, longtime Republican strategist now with the Hoover Institution, about what we heard last night, whether he sees a potential for anyone to break out in this race, and how Donald Trump did with the other show. Later, breaking news on the downing of a jet in Russia. We've told you about apparently carrying Yevgeny pregosion. We have news from the United States on how that plane may have gone down. With a lot to cover this hour, let's start on
Wall Street. Charlie Pellett has our update on rating for us. As always, Hey try, Thank you very much. Joe Matthew, Hi, Charlie, thank you. Welcome to our two of Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, joined at the table now by our friend Kaylee Lines, who's still resting up after a night of three hours of programming essentially between the debate and the interview. And boy, we've got a lot to come yet today with our eyes on Fulton County and Georgia.
This just it's August, but it never stops.
No multiple things to pay attention to at once, last night being the X interview between Trump and Tucker as well as the first primary debate, and then today the aftermath of the debate. We're all trying to assess whether any needles actually were moved by the conversation that happened on stage in Milwaukee. At the same time, we also have our eyes on Trump's airplane to see when it's going to travel from New Jersey down to Georgia so that he could show up at the.
Jail in Fulton County.
So it was really good with the X. You just went right to X. There's no more Twitter for you. I don't know, I.
Feel like I fluctuate. Yeah, but it said Tucker on X.
I think that he had a whole logo last night.
Now X Elon Musk was clearly embracing this whole thing. We're going to talk to Lonnie Chen, who's with us here at the table as well today, a longtime Republican strategist helped to run, helped to advise the Rodney campaign, the market Rubio campaign in sixteen. We're just talking to Nicky Haley about that. Remember that big endorsement.
I bet you do. Welcome back, It's wonderful to see you.
I want to bring it back to a moment last night that you may have had a hard time finding to begin with or remembering, because the governor of Florida did speak.
We want to start on this with a show of hands. Do you believe in human behavior is causing climate change?
Raise your hand if you do. Look, we're not school children. Let's have the debate. I mean, I'm happy to take it to start up.
That was actually one of probably his better moments last night, where he tried to seize the debate, try to get the microphone. The Trump team, Lonnie said that he had a cameo and they thought they'd hear a little more from him last night. The whole idea was this was going to be a pileon run. But some folks who might maybe watch a ten or twenty minute chunk didn't even hear from him.
Did he let you down? What was the strategy?
I mean, look, the strategy probably for him was to survive, honestly, because I also thought I also thought it was going to be a pile on the fact that it wasn't makes it a win for him because he doesn't come
out of the debate any worse. In my view, there are a lot of people who are in the donor community, who were in the establishment sort of thought leader, whatever you want to call it, the establishment community, who had their doubts about Rond DeSantis going in a last night, and I don't think that he did anything to make those doubts worse, Let's put it that way. So in that sense, I think you have to view that as
a win. Now, could he have been more forceful, could he have been involved in more conversations, perhaps, but I think if you look at the overall trajectory of that campaign, it could have been a lot worse, right, And if everybody had come after him and he was sort of parrying things, it could have been worse.
I think, well, who they decided to go laughter ultimately, and who commanded a lot of the oxygen and attention was the vake Romsque who has been pulling in third. Even if DeSantis didn't do anything to make it materially worse an absence of making it material materially better, did he just perhaps sacrifice the number two position? Do you think we could see someone like Levig overtaking him in the Nozo distant future.
I think what Viveke did was to reinforce the concept that he's very good communicator. He's very good in those situations, but I think he's got a ceiling. And I think if you look at the you know, a couple of focus groups were done right after the debate by various media networks, and I think what was conveyed in those focus groups is what all the people are thinking, which is he seems like a nice communicator, he seems you know, slick,
but he's too young, he's not experienced enough. I do think that those attacks, while they seemed a little bit hackneyed at the time, do speak to his principal problem, which is that there's only so much of the electorate that's available to him in a Republican primary, and he's going to hit that ceiling and that's pretty much going to be it in my view. So you're right, he
drove a lot of attention. He may even be at the center of the stage for the next debate at the Reagan Library in California, but I don't think it makes him any more likely to be the nominee.
So this is a stock that popped after hours already use a yeah, but I mean, look, we could listen.
That's the way these things work.
Though.
When you look back at the sixteen campaign, everybody got a night or a month, yeah, and then there was no follow on, asked Chris Christie. That actually could have been the high water mark for mister Ramaswami.
No, yeah, very well could have been.
And what you see, what I saw last night was how much disdain, just raw disdain.
There was for him from the other candidates.
I'm about to look at the way that Nikki Haley engaged him, the way that Mike Pence engaged him. Chris Christie, everybody took their shots at vague because I think the idea that he's up there with them, they find to be kind of fundamentally offensive in some ways, right, and they were not afraid to let that emotion show when they went aft.
When you remember the moment Kayley, when he said Donald Trump, I believe was the president of the twenty first century, then why would you run against him?
I can't answer that in my head.
Well, I think this is the question we have frankly been continually asking, is that Trump is the opponent of all of these individuals, and yet most of them, in the absence of Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christy for example, have been very reluctant to speak out against him, and in some cases have actually outright defended him. How long can they keep that up if realistically they need to get through him to.
Get to phenomenal Well, I mean, that's exactly the right question, because the way this primary has set up. I have always felt, if you want to take out the king, you need to take out the king. You cannot use proxies, you cannot go sideways, you have to come directly at him, and no one really has been willing to do that in a sustained way, or certainly in a way that
would impact the likelihood that he's the nominee. And so what you're left with is this inalterable conclusion that last night, while entertaining for some, did not move the needle for anybody else. So this is still Donald Trump's nominating contests. I think the poll numbers will reflect, broadly speaking, a bump for NICKI Haley, so she's going to go from maybe two percent to four percent or five percent. But at the end of the day, this is still Donald Trump's race to lose.
It has been that way.
And I say that with some sadness, because you know, I think that it's it's harmful for the Republican Party in the long run to have Donald Trump as the nominee the party again. But as I look at it, I don't see any other conclusion being logically and empirically verifiable.
So smart move to sit down with Tucker and not again.
Yeah, I mean, I listen, why why should he have gone to that?
He would have gotten beat up on probably or in the alternative, he does well, and he's not a whole lot better off. Right, his numbers are what his numbers are, Tucker, He's speaking to his audience, and it's just a much lower sort of likelihood that something goes wrong in that environment versus in the debate environment.
So I think his team made the right call.
It's not the right call for democracy, but it's the right call for the Trump team absolutely.
So as you're talking about the idea that this is still Trump's race to lose, that no one is really moving the needle here. Could the needle be moved if it were four candidates on that stage instead of eight, If we start to see a winnowing down of the field from here, as we get closer to the second debate, we see whether or not anyone who didn't make the criteria this time around, whether or not they can pull
it off in round two. Is that when we actually start to see it make a difference, And until then is his lead just going to continue to widen.
If you look at primary campaigns past, it has been when that field winnows and you're down to three or four candidates around that debate stage or table, when you begin to see harder contrasts. Right, it's when you had Chris Christy going after Marco Rubio and that takedown. You know, I think there were fewer candidates by the time we got to that, not a lot fewer but a few fewer.
And so I do think what this rate, this race is going to have to crystallize to a point where it's one on one, and you've got a lot of things standing in the way of one on one right now. You've got personal ambition, you've got a lot of financial resources behind some of these candidates, and you've got the fact that their personal incentive is probably to stay in as long as they can because they can participate in these debates, people will learn more about them. There are
advantages to being in this race. So I just think that Donald Trump having the lead also has several intrinsic advantages, such as the fact that the inertia is going to run toward a more people in the race for longer than not.
Is part of the Donald Trump strategy to show up at court today effective in keeping him in front of the news, blunting what apparently was really not a balance for anyone last night. The choreography we're going to see over the next twelve hours is going to.
Be important for him, it is.
I mean, you know, he's always of the belief that there's no such thing as bad coverage, as bad media, and you know, he may be right about that.
I don't know the risks today then.
The same risks.
I mean, the risks right now are all general election risks. In my view, they're not primary risks. One thing that Nicki ham to go to this general primary issue. One thing that Nicki Haley did very well last night was present herself as a credible general election candidate. Her answers on abortion on a whole other series, especially abortion, I thought were really tuned toward that audience of independent voters,
whether they're pro life or pro choice. They hear what she says and they think that's a very reasonable position to take. So she was able to distinguish herself as an effective general election candidate. She may have been the only one, perhaps aside from Christy or Hutchinson or Bergham to a certain degree, who were able to do that. So I think Trump's challenge tonight is he's just getting more fodder in my view to Joe Biden.
I mean the Biden team.
They're talking about Bidenomics now, They're not going to be talking about Bidenomics when we get to next summer. About Donald Trump and about his legal troubles and do you really want this person in the White House again, that's what it'll be. It's a really interesting election because it's a referendum on both Biden and Trump.
Had that in a while, and to your point, Nikki Haley was talking about that last night. She said most voters do not want to see a rematch. Also said that Donald Trump is either the least liked or the most hated. I forget the exact language, so roughly phrasing politician in America, and they can't win a general election that way. But you say that the Biden administration eventually is going to have to talk about Trump and his
legal problems. They have specifically avoided doing that to this point. Because we also heard on stage last night a lot about the weaponization of the Justice Department and going after political opponents. How do they get around that narrative?
Yeah, I mean, I think that some of it is They're just going to have to take their lumps on it, because at the end of the day, the attack on Trump is probably more effective than the notion that and we'd have to see numbers to really support this. But my instinct just says, if you've got this whole range of stuff on Trump, and so much of it Hinges on his legal difficulties.
Separate and apart from the federal.
Case, you've got all these state cases as well. There's enough material there to use that they probably ought to use it, and I think they will use it. And again, I just I think the challenge with making the economic argument, which I know they want to make, is it does fly in the face a little bit of where people are in terms of how they feel about the economy.
And if you look at all the survey of research, there was a poll done by Quinnipiac University, there's another poll done recently that just shows, particularly Amongst African Americans and Hispanics, a deep disaffection with economics right now, with the condition of the economy, and you're making an argument about Bidenomics is working, and people are like, well, it doesn't work it for me, right, So that mismatch really
leaves them with very few available arguments. And that's why I think the Trump argument will be irresistible for I.
Nicky Haley went to the economy last night and a pretty interesting moment. We asked her about this earlier today, calling out not only Democrats but also Republicans for adding to the nation's debt.
They need to stop the spending, they need to stop the borrowing. They need to eliminate the earmarks that the Republicans brought back in, and they need to make sure they understand these are taxpayer dollars, it's not theirs. And while they're all saying this, you have Ron de Santas, You've got Tim Scott, you've got Mike Pence. They all voted to raise the debt and Donald Trump added eight trillion to our debt. And our kids are never going to forgive us for.
This, naming names, including Donald Trump. In that case, eight trillion dollars is a big number that Joe Biden, i'm sure, is looking forward to reminding people about.
I just wonder your thoughts on Nikki Haley.
Last night, she had a good night, She get a lot of buzz this morning, she had some powerful exchanges, and I think to your I think you were at least going there a little bit earlier. She sounded a lot more like a Mitt Romney last night than a Donald Trump.
But is there a party for that?
Well, first of all, I think the argument on deficits and debt is a good argument for her to carry. And I appreciate that she carried that because it doesn't feel like a lot of Republicans are willing to Is there an audience for it that I'm not sure about. I think within the Republican Party there is certainly an audience for it. It is a smaller audience today than
ten years ago. Ten years ago, deficits and debt. You know, when I worked on Mitt Romney's twenty twelve effort, I will tell you that was always one of our top polling issues that people were deeply concerned. This was coming out of the Tea Party movement of twenty ten, twenty eleven, Obamacare, all that other stuff. There was a lot of interest in deficit and debt. Now I'm not so sure, but what she is showing is that she's trying, in some ways to unite the tribes here.
She's trying to say, listen, if you like the America First stuff, I was part of that administration. I did that.
If you like the fiscal conservative, that's me. I'm telling you about deficit and debt. If you like the social conservative, I'm just socially conservative enough. I'm pro life, but I do believe in states having some measure of control over things. I think she was trying to be the unite the tribe's candidate. And if you think about the numbers in this primary, they're probably sixty five percent of people out there in the Republican primary who don't want Donald Trump to be the nominatee.
So you can unite those tribes exactly. How about it?
Lone, great to have you, Thanks, thanks for having me talk to us A light chat with us on sound On.
You're listening to the Bloomberg sound On podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
The former Republican governor of South Carolina, of course, our former ambassador to the UN who had a big night on the debate stage, getting a lot more attention this day than she was even yesterday.
But can she keep the momentum going.
Let's assemble our panel, our signature panel is here with more after the big night. That would of course be Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Schanzeno and Rick Davis.
Great to have both of you here.
Guys, Rick, I'll start with you, after this big conversation for the Republican Party last night, your initial reaction to Nicki Haley a big night here sparring with the vig Ramaswami any number of others and even called out Donald Trump and members of her own party.
Was this a good performance? Did she win the night?
Well, she certainly executed on her plan, and I think we were all surprised by that plan. And by the way, kudos for getting her on an interview today. I think you know, we learned a little bit about her views on social security, which actually seemed to track more the Mike Pence view than most of the people that were on the stage last night. But look, I mean she turned out to be the anti Trump elixir for the state.
I mean, she did more along the lines that we thought Chris Christy would do, which is really take it to Trump the administration, contrasts her views on everything from economic issues to trade to national security and and and really got into it, uh with vic Ramaswami in a way that you know, kudos to her for standing up for her principles. So I think she was a standout last night. I'm not sure how much demand there is for that kind of point of view within the Republican Party.
I mean, if she is the last person standing against Donald Trump, I think it might be an interesting race.
Would love your take on this as well, Jeanie Shanzano. Here's the moments that Nikki Haley jumped out of the box to go at it with the vig Ramaswami on foreign affairs.
Why always to go and defund Israel? You want to get let me address that. I'm glad you brought that up. Go and give you to address each of those.
Right now us the false is of a professional politician.
There you have it.
So the reality is less.
You have no foreign policy experience, and you.
Know what, the policy experience that you chosen, the less WARLD.
Has gotten into act to address that.
So our relationship with Israel will it never be stronger than by the end of my first But it's not quiet relationship, it is a friendship.
You have no foreign policy experience and it shows, she said, Genie, how did Nicki Haley do last night?
She performed very well. And I think if you're a Democrat watching this, you're hoping that she is not the nominee, And lucky for Democrats, it's unlikely she will be because Nicki Haley is running and she is probably the winner of any sort of quote unquote establishment Republicans. She's probably the winner of the donor class. But as you hear that audience from the second they began introducing the candidates on stage and we heard the booze for Chris Christie,
it sounded even like for Asa Hutchinson. You knew that this was Donald Trump's crowd all the way. And Vivek Ramaswami every time he spoke, and to me, he was auditioning to be VP. He was the stand in for Donald Trump. He was met with cheers for the most part. So she had a very strong night. I'm just not sure there's an audience for it in the Republican Party. That was sitting in that audience and that is going to be voting in these primaries, and that's the problem
for the Republican Party. And so you know, it is a real challenge for somebody like her, but she did. For Democrats. She's you know, looming as a big, pragmatic old style Republican concern.
So you both seem to agree here she's from a Republican party of the past. Maybe let's talk about the Ramaswami a little bit more, because she wasn't the only one to call him out for a lack of experience.
How about Mike.
Joe Biden has weakened this country at home and abroad.
Now is not the time for on the job training.
We don't need to bring in a rookie.
We don't need to bring in people without experience.
You know, there was that memo, remember from the Ron DeSantis pac that said he was going to go after of Avague that would be the target.
Apparently it was. He was not the only one to get that memo. Here's Chris Christy.
Already tonight of a guy who sounds it's like chatchi BT standing up here. And the last person in one of these debates, Bret who stood in the middle of the stage and said, what's a skinny guy with an odd last name doing up here? Was Barack Obama. And I'm afraid we're dealing with the same type of amateur who sand In saves tonight.
Gi Amish, give me a hug just like you did at.
The same time, and you help let me.
Just like Obama too, he never did get the hug.
I will give the Vake Ramaswami credit for smiling through the entire debate. I feel like there might be something, uh somewhat contagious there. But Rick, are we going to look back at last night as the peak of the Ramaswami campaign.
Oh, I don't know.
I think he's going to be around for a little while. He's he's he's pretty good on the stump and people are entertained, and maybe he is, like.
What Genie says, auditioning for VP.
What's interesting is every vote he's got that's sitting on his ballot is a Donald Trump boat, right. I mean, like what we learned last night is he's willing to go way further out, like what Ambassador Nicky Haley pointed out than anybody else on that stage, for things like supporting Putin, you know, giving a break to China, you know,
abandoning our friends in the Middle East like Israel. I mean, you know, these are such outrageous positions that no one else is going to touch that rail, you know, on that stage, except Donald Trump, who actually got ahead by saying outrageous things just like vec has done. So, uh, if you got to worry if Veck ever got out of the race, I think all that support just goes
to pad the comfort of the Donald Trump margin. So you know, Govivac Trade the beast, you know, keep going up in the polls because nobody else outside of a hard Trump supporter is going to be for that guy.
Well, it's confusing to me, Genie, because Ramaswami said last night that he believes Donald Trump was the greatest president of the twenty first century.
If you believe that, why would you run?
That's absolutely right. And of course you know of a man who's facing what ninety one criminal chargees and is you know, in four jurisdictions, facing trials that may put him in jail for his life and turning himself in today. You know, for the Democrats, the vek Ramaswami is something of a dream. Nothing could be better for them than
if it's not Donald Trump it's the vek Ramaswami. But of course, to Rick's point, where's the pathway for somebody like the vek Ramaswami because he's sort of Trump junior. And you know I heard somebody today describe him as the Tracy Flick of the election, which, as you mentioned, all the smiling, the best political campaign movie ever election with Reese Witherspoon, and that's really what he seemed like. But you've got to wonder, you know, what is he doing?
And that's why I come back. Do I think he is auditioning to be VP or a cabinet member? That said, you know, he came out of nowhere, and for him to be the center of this debate and to be the person that a former vice president all these governors and former governors are attacking, and to have this standout performance for what it is, I think really speaks to the really, really dismal path that the Republican Party is going down now and the fact that Trump was right
to skip this. This is his party and his election in his campaign right now to lose, and it was showcased last night.
Extra points for the Tracy Flick reference, Scott. I can always count on Eugenie Schanzeno. How did Mike Keen's do we heard his voice a minute ago. Rick, he had more experience than anyone else. He really took the moment when he could to try to stand out from the pack. He leaned into the January sixth story. Did he do enough to stay viable?
You know, look his pathway is Iowa, and so look at what he did. He was more combative than I think anybody thought he was going to be. He took his normal shot at Donald Trump on the Constitution, and he talked a lot about scripture and his faith, which is a good road to hoe if you're trying to win a caucus in Iowa. So I'm not sure how much of that's going to sell in New Hampshire. But he's a one state candidate and he worked at hard last night. I'd say he did pretty well, much better
than I thought he could. He has very high negatives within Republican caucus goers in Iowa, So the question is did he overcome some of that negativity. It's not a neutral position on him. Republicans in Iowa don't like him, and so he's going to have to do what he can to overcome that. But I think he made some progress last night.
We'll see how he does, I guess in the second debate. But you know whose name I have not mentioned yet, he was supposed to be the star last night. He came in with a very different strategy than I think some expected. The governor of Florida, who did the Trump team suggests, played a cameo at best in the debate last night. But when he spoke, he didn't seem like he was terribly involved in the rest of the debate,
almost as if there was media training. Maybe you guys can weigh in on this to say, hey, no one watches these things. We need capturable content for social media. Don't worry about what comes before or after your opportunity.
This economy it was a mistake. It should have never happened.
And in Florida, we led the country out of lockdown. We kept our state free and open. And I can tell you this, as your president, I will never let the deep state bureaucrats lock you down. You don't take somebody like Fauci and coddle him. You bring Fauci in, you sit him down, and you say, Anthony, you are fired.
Interesting because I thought that was Donald Trump's line, you're fired. But he went there a lot of uncomfortable smiles last night. He was frozen at one point in the camera. Rick Davis, how did Ron DeSantis do.
Well?
I'm afraid my old friend Brett O'Donnell, who gave the maid advice to John McCain and virtually every presidential campaign since then, had his work cut out for him because who looked more uncomfortable on that stage than what was
supposed to be the guy everybody wanted. So look, I mean, maybe he just doesn't have it an him, But as you pointed out, he just kind of ignored what was going on, didn't care what question was asked of him, didn't interact with anybody else, didn't create a moment where he did anything other than his normal talking points. So if he thinks he's on the comeback trail with that performance, he's on the wrong path.
Well that's not good, Genie.
This was supposed to be the night that he reversed the slide. You know, he's doing the big campaign reset or something like that. Is there something to his approach? It was certainly clippable for Instagram and Twitter or did he lose groundlin Last Life?
Yeah, it was clippable for Trump's campaign, certainly. I don't know about the Santisis campaign, you know. Quite Frankly, Joe, you're like a half hour into this show and you're just messaging, you know, mentioning him now, and that's pretty much the reality of Dysantis. Was he even on that stage? I kept wondering, did he think he was like Donald Trump?
Up fifty points, forty points and he could just not show up because quite frankly, it was like he wasn't even there and he was center stage, he was upstaged. He did not take many opportunities, if any. He looked uncomfortable. He said things about Fauci. And you know, let's remember the pandemic for Republican voters in the primary right at this point doesn't matter, and Fauci already retired, So why is he talking about him?
You know?
It just it was a mind boggling sort of strategy, if there was one, he didn't execute. But this is how he was in the gubernatorial debates as well. He is not a good debater. He's not a good retail politician. I don't know what his path is forward. But I can't imagine you're a big money donor and you're thinking that's the guy for me, I can't imagine it. I think it was a really poor performance.
So what happens after a night like that? Rick GENI just mentioned the donors, what's this campaign doing now? They can't think that went well? Well, I'll ask you the same thing I guess I did about Ramas Swami. Do we look back at last night as you know, kind of the beginning of the end or has that already happened?
You know?
Look, I think that he's already slid thirty points from his ballot in February, right, So, like what more is left? And the reality is too if people are looking for an option for Donald Trump and they're in that cohort where they may be sitting on Trump's ballot, right, how do we get people off of Trump and onto another candidate. I'd say Ramaswami kind of made his case last night. You think Donald Trump's crazy and I'm going to do these insane things around the world.
Pick me.
I'll even be more crazy and do more insane things around the world.
I mean, like, he actually played a completely different deck of cards and I think got away with it. So I doubt if there's going to be very many Trump voters shopping for the DeSantis, Oh you know, you're a better option for me. I think they're going full crazy and may start, you know, moving over to Ramaswami and seeing whether or not he's the real deal. It doesn't really make a bit of difference to the rest of the field because they're not competing with.
The same voters.
Ramaswamy's not going to take a single ballot away from Tim Scott or you know, Nicky Hayley or any of the other candidates.
Well, we've got a lot more to talk about, including the man who was not in the room last night, Donald Trump sat down with Tucker Carlson, did a polished edited interview that covered a lot of ground from Jeffrey Epstein to Civil War.
And this is the.
Day he's expected to show up in Fulton County to surrender. So we're about to shift our attention back to Donald Trump's legal issues. We'll talk about it next with Rick and Jeanie. Only here on sound On.
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Of course, it wasn't just the debate last night. We also had the split screen with Donald Trump, the fore and beyond front runner in this contest, sitting for an interview with Tucker Carlson because you know, he figured with his polling numbers, he had no interests in going to that debate.
He was bigger than it.
Rules have come out, and I'm leading by fifty and sixty points, and you know some of them are at one and zero and the two. And I'm saying, do I sit there for an hour or two hours, whatever it's going to be and get harassed by people that should need me running for president?
Should I be doing that?
So?
If so, no show.
And they talked about a lot of stuff beyond the debate with Tucker Carlson. It's about forty five minutes long. I guess they got into whether Jeffrey Epstein was murdered. They got into whether we're heading for a civil war. Sort of a bizarre conversation as the President did his best to appear bigger than the debate last night, which members of the Trump team called the undercar Let's reassembled our Panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano Bloomberg Politics contributors.
I don't know if you watched it, Genie, maybe you have to get back there and add to the views on Twitter or x or whatever we call it. But in retrospect, having seen the debate, was that actually the smart move from Donald Trump?
Or did he missed an opportunity.
He didn't miss an opportunity by skipping the debate. There was really no reason for him to appear there, and he was right about that. But this interview, I, in my mind, the words come chilling weird. They talked about civil war, they talked about potential violence. Carlson asked him if he thought he was going to be assassinated. So if anybody thinks that if Donald Trump is the nominee and that seems increasingly likely that things are going to
calm down, that is absolutely not the case. I mean, they are talking about political and social violence in the Civil War, and Donald Trump came off as sort of less unhinged than Chuck Tucker Carlson, if it's possible. But it was a very very bizarre conversation, and as you mentioned, even got into things like Jeffrey Epstein and whether he killed himself or not. So you know, he was right to skip the debate. Doesn't make that much sense if
you're forty points up. But this interview is a chilling reminder as to what's ahead if he's the nominee, and indeed, if he's reelected.
Good Weighana, I guess on the Civil War if you want to hear Rick. But I just wonder strategically, the conventional wisdom was, hey, why would Trump ever go? And it looks like he may not attend any of these primary debates based on what he's posted on social media. He's not going to be able to resist this for a lot longer though, Right, is he really going to sit all these out?
Well?
He might, I mean unless there's a serious challenge.
That confronts him that he would need to try to vanquish. I can't imagine what's in it for him to stand around a bunch of the replacements and give them sort of a free shot at him. They seem encouraging to want to do it. So I think he did the right thing. He had to do something, And I agree with Genie. I mean, the most bizarre thing wasn't Donald
Trump last night. It was Stucker Carlson. I mean, the strangest bunch of questions you know about conspiracy theories and oddball you know, questions that I've ever seen in an interview, and the most low energy between the two of them. I mean, like, who's going to name them low energy? I mean, it's it was boring, and I'll be honest. You know, when I was on the Ronald Reagan campaign.
We talked a lot about the Panama Canal. Didn't think we were going to hear about that again last night, but sure enough.
You know those nasty Chinese infiltrated the Panama Canal.
Well, he was president for four years.
Did he do anything about China infiltration of the Panama Canal?
I don't remember, but.
I must say, remember, I think this is the first time I hear whatever say. I think the undercard was better than the top fight.
I can't disagree with that. I feel like Jeanie would agree as well. And his hope here is to just debate Joe Biden right bypass the primaries. Act like you're the incumbent, get on stage with President Biden.
He did get into the age issue.
Last night, despite the fact that he's only four years younger than the city president.
Can't walk to the helicop, he walks, he can't lift his feet out of the grass. You know, it's only two inches at the White House. I have said a lot, but you watch him and it looks like he's walking on.
Toothpicks, walking on toothpicks across the south lawn.
Never mind the beach.
We've seen a lot of beach photos lately. I guess Donald Trump's been paying.
You see in the beach where he can't lift the chair. You know this years are meant to be light, right, They're like two ounces.
He lift them up.
He can't lift the chair. He can't walk to the chair. And I don't know what they're doing with the beach. You know, this beach is seeming to play a big role. But they love pictures of him on the beach. I think it looks terrible on the beach.
Maybe he should be on the golf course, Genie. I don't know, but it didn't seem like he had too much trouble lifting the chair.
Is he onto something?
Though?
Since this Hawaii trip, there's been a much more concerted effort to paint Joe Biden as being too old and unfit.
Mentally and physically for this job.
Yeah, it's the same thing that they tried to do to Hillary Clinton and in the unsuccessfully in twenty sixteen. To try to say that she didn't have her faculties together, and they're trying to do it with Joe Biden. As you looked at the conservative media post that Hawaii trip, there was a lot of those memes and videos about him sleeping.
Well, he wasn't sleeping.
He was swallowing. He was putting his head down during a very tough discussion about all the people who had you know, suffered during the fires and the victims. So you know, there is an awful lot of that going down. But I have to say I was surprised even for Donald Trump to go there because of course today when he turns himself in, they may release his weight, and not just the mug shot, but his weight, which is something he may want to avoid. We know he's very
concerned about that. So for him to be talking about somebody else's physical condition, I think it's going to be interesting to see what comes out about his weight when they book him today in that horrific jail down in Atlanta, and he's gonna you know, and know Ronnie Jackson there to say what excellent condition he's in.
Well, that's true.
You know they did the fake mug shot, right, didn't they put a a false weight on the T shirts that they I look, we're gonna see a mugshot apparently at some point later on today. We don't know exactly when he's going to get to the courthouse, but of course we'll keep you posted on all of this here on Bloomberg. Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis reminding us that we have a whole other leg in this story later on today as we go back to Fulton County.
But we're not done with the debate, not quite yet.
Some final thoughts from our panel straight ahead on who was locked out of the spin room last night and they're still complaining about it.
It's the fastest show in.
Politics the day after the debate, the day of the surrender. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Glad you're with us. It's Bloomberg.
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Of course, the part of the show at the debate, like last night in Milwaukee, is what's happening outside of the hall and in the spin room is what.
They call it.
That's where all the surrogates go after the big debate, try to get on cable news and literally spin what their preferred candidate said, try to set things straight. But of course Donald Trump skipped the debate and the RNC made a decision last evening to not allow Trump surrogates. We're gonna have Rick and Jennie weigh in on this because it turned into a pile up at the door of the spin room. Just ask Marjorie Taylor Green, who went on a rival conservative network to complain about it.
Blocked us out. They would not allow myself, Matt Gates, any other Trump surrogates to go into the spin room. We argued with them, talk to them. We showed the correct credentials, We had spin room credentials, and they would not let us in. So this is censorship from Fox News.
Actually the RNC, I believe, if not Fox Alls, they both said that this would be the case. They warned them that they would not be welcome. But I'll tell you what Donald Trump Junior showed up to and.
Because any of us.
But that's what it is. I'd been told by all this and I would be able to go in.
So they said we weren't able to go in, and they said they were in now that we're here, and the candidate that.
Said you can't go in the spin room, they're telling me right now.
They told them that they wouldn't be let in, but they showed up anyway, Rick Davis, was that the right move by the organizers of this debate?
Sure, you got to pay to play.
I mean, Donald Trump blows off Fox, blows off the RNC, you know, won't abide by the rules that the RNC set up and then expects to have, you know, carte blanche and to access to the spin room and things like that. Now, I mean, the only mistake I think that they made is instead of talking about Donald Trump and using the moment like on air to pitch the Donald Trump campaign, they just talked about themselves and their grievances and had nothing to do with actually winning a presidential race.
So you know, I did you have left them out?
Jeanie, Oh no, it's so Unamerican kidding. That's what Kimberly Gilfoyle said, is dout do not buying next to her?
Yes, you can't.
You can't go in if you don't go to the debate. That's the reality.
I thought they broke up.
I'm just behind on everything, I guess Geenie Shanse No, Thank you, Rick Davis, thank you.
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