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It snowed all night in Washington. Not a fit night out for man nor beast, to quote the great WC. Fields. They even put the Capitol police in hotels because what is about to happen today must happen by the Constitution.
The certification of the presidential vote.
What's happening right now, the quick meeting on the House side, same for the Senate. They get together, everybody says hello, and a little bit less than an hour from now one pm Eastern time, they will gabble in a joint session of Congress to get this job done.
Now, a lot of us learned about January four years ago.
This is something that typically wouldn't even make the news until, of course, what happened in twenty twenty. They're going to carry those ballots, remember that in the wooden boxes across the rotunda. They will count, they will unseal them, count them, and then certify them, with the Vice president who just lost the election presiding over the process again one pm Eastern time. That's right, is the outgoing president of the Senate. It is Kamala Harris's job to preside over the count here.
It is also apparently Kamala Harris's job, along with many other Democrats, to remind everyone today about what happened four years ago. Joe Biden had an op ed this morning that you might have heard about. Kamala Harris took to a video to speak to people ahead of today's process, again mandated by the Constitution.
Here's the Vice President today at the United States Capital. I will perform my constitutional duty as Vice President of the United States to certify the results of the twenty twenty four election. This duty is a safe obligation one I will uphold, guided by love of country, loyalty to our Constitution, and my unwavering faith in the American people. As we have seen, our democracy can be fragile, and it is up to then each one of us to stand up for our most cherished principles.
Serious production values. Multiple camera angles on the Vice President. As I mentioned, Joe Biden, writing an op ed this morning, in which he refers to what took place four years ago.
Quote.
For much of our history, this proceeding was treated as pro forma, a routine act, he writes. But after what we all witnessed on January sixth, twenty twenty one, we know we can never again take it for granted unquote. Glad to say that we have Mora Gillespie with us. Of course, spent a good chunk of her career in the House of Representatives of veteran John Bayner's Speaker's Office, founder Principal Bluestax strat to use now she is a Republican strategist as the way forward more.
It's great to see you.
January sixth is here, and I just wonder before we get into the details, what's going through your mind today.
It's really an important reminder, I think, just for everyone, whether you're a republican, independent democrat, the peaceful transfer power is a cornerstone of our democracy, and the very fact that it was you know, obstructed in ways last you know, last time in twenty twenty one should be jarring, no matter which side of the aisle you sit on, because
when that happened and what the insurrection did. It's it is hard for me to put into words the feeling that I had watching this play out, knowing what was coming, and then watching a play out the way that it did.
It's hard to really impress upon people how important it is to be objective, because I think that if if it wasn't Trump supporters who were doing this, and I would, let's say it was you know, Harris Biden, people are out there today and we're storming the Capitol, those same trap for supporters would be furious and would be screaming from the rooftops that they should be all hat accountable. And I think, then again, having your objective hats on as opposed to your partisan hats on is going to
be really important as we move forward. But marking this day and not forgetting what happened four years ago is incredibly important, and I hope people will take time to remember that.
Well, there's a lot of talk about whitewashing right what happened on January sixth, There has been a bit of revisionist history. Donald Trump calls it a day of love when he talks about this. We also know that he's promised to pardon the January six rioters and there are a lot of them. I don't know if this is going to be in across the board. There have been questions about how Donald Trump would handle that. But more than fifteen hundred people were charged with crimes tied to
January sixth Nearly a thousand have pleaded guilty. I'm guessing you don't think they should be pardoned more.
You can speak to that.
But we heard as well today from the captain of the Capitol Police, who is not in favor obviously of seeing them part. And what message would that send if Donald Trump makes good on that.
Promise as sets us up as a country for mayhem, Because if you can't hold the people who again, if you were one of those people over the summer who were furious at these college students who are breaking into buildings, bashing windows and trying to take over their campus buildings, and you said they need to be held accountable, they should all be arrested, then you should have the same
exact feelings about those who broke into the Capitol. Beat down our officers both that's your Politan police in the DC area as well as Capitol Police officers to stop a proceeding that is again the cornerstone of our democracy. So you can't cry welf at one thing and then turn a blind eye to the other. They're not on the same level. But if you're opposed to people breaking into buildings and smashing in windows, then you should think that they should be held accoutable in the same ways.
And so for President Trump to go ahead and issue a blanket pardons is what just a terrible look for their justice system. But two, I do you think that people there are certain cases that can be looked into. I'm not saying, you know, I'm not opposed that I think our friminal justice system needs to be looked into. I think there are certain cases that can be looked
into as far as how far their sentencess go. But to issue a blanket pardon is so dangerous and set this terrible precedent for our country moving forward.
Well, I'm guessing that Adam Kinsinger doesn't like the idea. You worked for the former Congressman Mara. Of course, he was on the January sixth committee. We don't know Donald Trump has threatened to prosecute some of the folks or all of them who were involved in that investigation. Is there a place in the Republican Party for the Adam Kinsingers of the world, John Katco's, the Mitt Romneys of the world.
There is they want to be. My thing has always been, you know, one the idea about not the idea, but what happened on January sixth. You can take a strong stance against that and say and call it out and say that it was wrong, and say that it was a violation of what we stand for as a nation and for a democracy, and still believe in Republican policies and put forward ideas conservative values and still identify as
a Republican Again. I just I want to reiterate that what happened on January sixth, whether Republican or Democrats, should appall you should truly be something that can never happen again. And that doesn't make you any less Republican by saying that, because again Roles reversed. If a Democrat mob was coming to storm the Capitol to overturn the twenty twenty four election, Republicans would be outraged. But again on that day in
twenty tinty one, it wasn't just Democrats being targeted. It wasn't it was Mike Pence being targeted for the job that Kamala Harris is about to do today in certifying election. It was members. All members were scared. Republican members were scared the most MAGA Republicans were scared and hiding from
the mob that day. So let's just remember that that, yes, there is a role for Republicans like those who believe that data ray SICS is wrong, but also who believe in a small arm orccountable government, who want to see our energy sector thrive, who want to see our grocery bills come down. We can do both. You don't need to take away your own values and what you stand for to appease the Trump Mega people. I just don't think that that's way forward for us.
I only have a minute left, Mara.
If people should be appalled by what happened four years ago, should they not be inspired by what's about to happen today.
They should be very proud that our system stood that day in January twenty twenty one, and that it continues to thrive today because of adults in the room who are willing to do the job that they were tasked with, that they gave an oath to do. That is what
we call leadership. And it's important that this continues on past this moment, past the Trump Maga world moment, because our democracy has saided for almost two hundred and fifty years, and I intend for it to continue on much longer, pass my lifetime.
More. It's great to see.
I really appreciate the fact that you could join us on this day. Good luck digging out of our snowstorm here in the nation's capital. Marichillespie Bluestack Strategies. I will remind everybody that in the throes of the last couple of years here we also covered the passage of the Presidential Transition Improvement Act. We'll talk about that a bit more.
The idea was to prevent any possibility of what happened four years ago, watering down the role of the vice president and making it more difficult to object to what's going to happen.
It is unlikely that either will matter, though.
This is expected to go off without a hitch today, and we'll walk through it together starting as I mentioned, at one pm Eastern time, about forty five minutes from now, will begin the Joint Session of Congress.
We've got a lot more ahead, only on Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleventh.
D to.
Someone who was in the Capitol four years ago. Former Congressman Dan Kilde, who used to represent Michigan, is here with us on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Sir, thank you very much for your time. I would love if you could share with us just your reflection on how different this is four years ago to the day that you and your colleagues and members of the police forces were fearful of their lives at the time these proceedings were getting underway.
Yeah, obviously it's a completely different situation. Gratefully, it's different in some ways. I mean, I obviously preferred a different outcome in this past election. But as you can see, my colleagues, democratic colleagues who are disappointed in the outcome, disagree with the choice, are there to certify the will of the American people. Four years ago. Not only was there a mob sent by then President soon to be
President Donald Trump. Not only was there a mob that came to attack, but there were colleagues on the floor of the House of Representatives, a majority of the Republican members who participated in this whole attack in many ways by validating the necessary precondition to the attack, and that is this belief that somehow the election was not valid. Look at what we're seeing right now. It's what democracy is supposed to look like, even when we disagree with
the outcome personally. It's really tough because I can't even look at some of those colleagues that I served with in the same way after they contributed to what was really the closest we've come to losing our democracy in one hundred and fifty years.
Congress, when it's good to see you, as always, I'll remind everybody that you were on with us on January sixth, four years ago, and we went back and actually watched your interview with David Weston as we were just getting a sense of what was happening on January sixth, twenty
twenty one. You talked about to pick up on your point there some of your Republican colleagues in the House that day and you said, quote, I will look at all of those who vote to look at these challenges when they know there's no factual basis, I will look at them differently Unquote. How do you look at them now?
Well, it's been tough, and I have come to a point where I've reconciled to the point where I can, at least when I was still in Congress until a couple of days ago, I could work with those folks. But I can't deny that I will always look at them in a different light. They hold a little less
respect in my eyes than they otherwise would have. They hold less respect than those members of their own party that did vote to certify the election, despite the fact that they were disappointed in the outcome, and even some of those you know who went even further and courage the insurrection. But I have to admit I'd look at them in a different light.
Well, as we continue to keep our eye here on the House floor, a number of states results have already been read aloud. To this point there have been no objections. Again, no objections are expected today. No one is contesting these results.
But Congressman, we do realize that the proceedings today happen exactly two weeks before Donald Trump will take the oath of office and become the forty seventh President of the United States, and he has suggested on that first day, two weeks from today, he could issue pardons for many, if not all, of those who were convicted of crimes on January sixth, twenty twenty one. And I wonder, sir, what your thought is about that.
Well, it's very upsetting to me, both personally, because I was a victim of January six I was one of those members that was trapped in the gallery and couldn't get out, couldn't get out until those police officers were able to break through the line and get us out. It's a real slap in the face, I think, to those of us who were there, and we know what we saw and we know what we experienced. It's particularly
a slap in the face to the Capitol Police. Above all, the Capitol Police stood strong and defended this institution, defended those of us who worked there against people who came there and did serious physical harm to many police officers. Five officers lost their lives at the end of it all as a result of the terrible experience that they
went through. The idea that the president of the United States would pardon those people who committed a crime against this country because they happened to like him is a really frightening thought. I think it's something that will not go well in the handles of American history. This will be a dark day if an impac does that.
If you're just joining us on Bloomberg TV and Radio, it's the Monday edition of Balance of Power. We're spending time with former co Congressman Dan Kildy as lawmakers go about their work of certifying the vote in the twenty twenty four election. This is a live view of a joint session of Congress the House floor. We've made our way up to Florida, Kayley. As we work through the states. Having unsealed the votes, they are essentially counting and qualifying them.
We saw Congressman Brian's style from Wisconsin, the chair of there he is now the Administration Committee.
He and the ranking member are going through.
The process of making these official with each state. Congressman. As you watch this unfold, you take heart today. Obviously four years ago was a tragedy and a stain. I think, as we can all agree on American history. But the fact that it's happening together today on time as mandated by the Constitution, with lawmakers working cooperatively. Should we be inspired by what we're seeing now as opposed to four years ago.
I think we should be inspired, and we should be grateful. We should be grateful that the people who put in office, at least on my side of the aisle, and I'm a former member, but I'm a Democrat and proud of that that you're not seeing us do the same thing that we saw four years ago. And it does beg the question, and I think it's a good question to pose, what if the election had gone the other way? What
would today look like if Kamala Harris had succeeded. Would those same representatives on the floor of the House of Representatives now who are planning to vote to certify the election, how many of them would would do what the Democrats are doing and follow the will of the people. I worry about that because you know, obviously the election went their way. They're pleased. What if it hadn't gone their way? Look at HAIKM. Jeffrey said it the other day at
his address to the House. Loving this country means you love it even when you don't succeed, even when you lose an election. Loyalty to this country is not something you can pick and choose based on how you think the election should have gone. And I sure hope people have that in mind today as they think about the importance of this moment.
Well, and as you join us here on balance of power, Sir, as a former member of the House, some of your former colleagues who have also left their positions in elected office, looked into the events of January sixth, twenty twenty one. I'm thinking of, for example, Liz Cheney, Benny Thompson, Adam Kingsinger, some of them Donald Trump has suggested should face jail
time for the work they did on that committee. And with two weeks left to go of his presidency, do you believe Joe Biden should be issuing preemptive pardons to those individuals.
No, I'm not a fan of the use of presidential pardons at all, no matter what they're used for. I think it's authority that is antiquated, obsolete, and should be taken away. I just don't believe it. I have enough faith in the judicial system that if Donald Trump decides to make a mockery of it by pursuing charges against people who simply told the truth and saw the truth. I believe our judicial system, our justice system, we have to have enough faith in it that it would find
those people innocent. I don't think preemptive pardons are advisable under any circumstance, And even though I would agree with the sentiment, I don't think it would be a good thing to do.
Pretty incredible story in Political magazine Today about Al Gore thanking Mike Pence for his actions of four years ago. They met at a Joe Lieberman memorial service over the summer. Congressman Mike Pence told al Gore that he was inspired by what he had seen in two thousand and one. I never forgot it, Pence said to Gore, who replied, you don't know how much that means coming from you.
Of course, al Gore was under a lot of pressure at that point by his own party to defy the constitution following all the recounts, and what was a difficult time. If you're old enough to remember, shouldn't we also acknowledge the fact that Democratic lawmakers have raised objections in this process that we're witnessing right now.
In the past, that's.
A bypart as an exercise, and it's separate from storming the Capitol.
It is separate from starring the Capitol, for sure. But I think there is a clear distinction when an outlier or two within a party, for the purposes of calling attention to an issue or sometimes to themselves, may have offered objections. But that's a far cry from the majority of a party, members of the House and of the Senate taking the position that what they know to be a free and fair election should not be certified because
they didn't like the outcome. So I've heard those comparisons before, and while they're technically there have been instances of this, it's a far cry from what we saw on January sixth, and I think it's a distinction with a big difference, Sir.
We're into the MS now in terms of the results reading out the states, Massachusetts has gone by. That does mean Michigan is going to be coming soon. As Kamala Harris stands next to the House Speaker at the rosterm Michigan of course one of the swing states, one of all of the swing states which she lost, and I wonder as we look ahead to twenty twenty six, to the day we will be experiencing four years from now
January sixth, twenty twenty nine. Now that you are on the outside kind of looking into people competing for elected office, sir, what do you see is needing to change between now and then so that the next time they read out the results from Michigan, it's the Democrat who won those electoral votes.
Well, I think clearly we need to do a better job of communicating to people in terms they understand, not speak down to people, and not speak in wonky policy terms. My advice to Democrats is that if you're having a conversation in a campaign, and if that conversation doesn't fit in a kitchen table discussion, you're having their own conversation.
And I think sometimes we don't do a good job of getting out of our own way and just speaking to people on terms that they that they really do understand about the issues that they really care about, not sometimes the big macro issues, but those economic issues that families face. We didn't do a very good job of that. We need to do better, for sure. If we do, then I think the outcome of the election will be determined by that.
The Democrat from Michigan, former Congressman Dan Kildey. We could use you congressmen in Washington right now. We need a few folks who know how to handle snow, so let us do you pack in here? Yes, sir, of course, they've been plowing all night, Gaile, it's still snowing here.
There was some concern it was going to interfere with the proceedings, but enough lawmakers stayed in town over the weekend, and certainly Capitol police stayed in town last evening that this appears to be going off without a Hitge.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on almal Cockley and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
What We'll go down as a noteworthy day in history, though not for the same reason that's four years ago. It's just the day that Congress did its constitutional duty and certified the electoral victory of Donald Trump as the forty seventh President of the United States.
Not a single objection. It was pretty remarkable. We were talking earlier with Dan Kildey about this. It's not unusual to hear objections. In fact, there were many Democratic objections if you remember in two thousand and two thousand and four the situation with Ohio. The difference four years ago was the attack on the Capitol. What happened outside the capitol? What today to see none, no deeds, no ours. Everyone really wanted to to make this neat and clean.
Well and to make a point that this is how the Democrats process works in the United States. It's a key pillar of the peaceful transfer of power that these results are accepted by a joint session of Congress, as they were indeed today. And of course Democrats not losing the opportunity to make note of the contrast compared to how they view the conduct of their Republican colleagues.
Yeah, Joe Biden and op ed Kamala Harris in a video.
It's an interesting day here in Washington. Contrasts could not be greater from four years ago. And as Rick pointed out, it's so quiet on the hill because we've got a snowstorm. I think maybe one flight got in today and Mick mulvaney was on it. I don't know how this is possible, but he's with us at the table right now. The former Republican congressman, co founder the Freedom Caucus, former acting chief of staff in the Trump White House.
Nice to see a happy new year.
I mean I still have my Christmas sweater on.
Well you did pretty well, and I apologize for not dressing appropriately, but yeah, I'm just happy to.
Be here in this snow deck.
Yeah.
And it's not a big.
Snowstorm for most places that are used to snowstorms.
For this town, it's enough to shrut things down. That was the only car on the road in from the airport.
Was surprised there was no single objection to that.
I was, you know, let's go back and play some of the audio tape and the videotape of folks of what they've said about Donald Trump over the last three or four months. I mean, Jamie Raskin, I mean, face it. We were open the Democrats were openly accusing him of being the next coming of Adolf Hitler, that if we voted for him, it would be the end of the democracy as we know it.
That's not an exaggeration. That's not me using.
Hyperbole as sort of spinning what the Democrats said about him, That's what they said. They tried to convince people. I respect the fact that nobody objected. I think that's a good thing, and I think Democrats probably decided it was better for their brand long term not to object. But the next time they go on TV and tell people, oh, this person is the next coming of Adolf Hitler, are they going to justify what they just did.
I think it is inconsistent.
After it voted for all they did was say, yes, this is how people voted. That's not their vote.
I get that, but don't forget what did Hillary Clinton said? Oh remember Hitler was elected, which he wasn't, by the way, So there's always that if you really really thought he was Adolf Hitler, would did you vote to certify the election? I think the answer is no, if you really believed it, you would not, And in fact, I wouldn't. If I really thought somebody's aid off Hill, I would vote. Wouldn't
vote to certify the election. So what I think you've just seen is look again, I applaud the way it went down, and it's the smooth transition of power.
I'm a huge fan, and I think it was.
A class move today to do this, but it certainly undermines some of the hyperbole that they were using going into the going into the election.
As we mentioned, we heard from Joe Biden in an op ed, Kamala Harris and a carefully produced video presentation talking about her solemn duty, both of them going out of their way though to remind us of what happened four years ago. How should we catalog January sixth, twenty twenty one. You've got Donald Trump on one side saying it was a day of love, and obviously you saw more than a thousand people plead guilty to very serious crimes.
And we've talked about it before and it's sad. That sad, maybe that's not the right word. If you think it was a peaceful protest evidence of that. I mean, I remember seeing it.
We've talked about this. I was in town. In fact, I was in the building that morning.
I was at my condo in the afternoon, and I saw the people walking through the rotunda and one person stepped across the velvet ropes and somebody else grabbed them and pulled them back. So there were absolutely peaceful protesters. And if you want to say it was a peaceful protest. There's some evidence to that. If you want to say it was a violent insurrection, there are certainly evidence to that.
My sad and I will you sad here because I am really sad about this, is that we don't have any sort of common ground over what January sixth was. If you voted Democrat, you think one way. If you vote Republican, you think another way. At least for most folks. I wish we really knew what happened, and now there's evidence out or excuse me, there's suggestions out that there were FBI people in the in the crowd.
Is that right?
I've heard allegations that the Democrats tampered with the evidence during the January sixth commission?
Is that right? We don't know what.
The facts are, and it's really hard to have an informed opinion about something if you don't have the fact.
Well, we do know people lost their lives both on that day and in the aftermath. There is video evidence of many of these individuals assaulting police officers. Should those people who are on video, some of whom have already pleaded guilty to these crimes, be pardoned.
That's a great question. Here's here's how I hope they deal with it.
Look, the pardon power is a strange thing that we give to presidents. Why we give it to presidents, I'm not really sure. It's more of a king or queen type of thing. I hope that they go through it case by case, and if they do give pardons to some of the January sixth most violent offenders, let's say that they look at it and say, Okay, in this particular circumstance, let's use the sake of a discussion. The jail time doesn't seem to meet the crime. Okay, that
would be that would be grounds for a part. It would be people would look at the use of a pardonner and go, okay, that's that's that's an orthodox application of the presidential part authority. To come in and just say it never happened. It was a peaceful protest, everybody gets off. I think that would be that would that would be wrong. It happened the day, absolutely happened, and we have to figure out why it happened, what happened,
and then make sure it doesn't happen again. And if you try and sweep it under the rug of history, I think that you're doing a disservice.
I'm sure you remember the way you felt.
Absolutely, I'm still angry about the day, and if you're if you're American, you should be angry about the day. Even if you're one of the people who thinks it was a peaceful protest, you could look at what you've just talked about, Kaylee and say, look, but there were other people there who were not, And I'm angry about.
That, and I think that's that's not unreasonable.
Do you think we could have seen a repeat of what happened four years ago today had Donald Trump not won?
You know, I get asked that question all the time, and I tell people I am the worst person to ask that question of because I didn't see it coming the first in the first place.
I really didn't.
And that's what frightens me the most about that day is that not only did I not see it coming, if you'd asked me, he said, Mick, if there'd be riots and a transition, I never would have thought it would have been my party, the law and order party, that was involved with.
It in any fashion.
So I am the wrong person to ask about what we might have seen today if the outcome had been different.
Because I didn't see it four years.
Ago, and then the post mortem that everyone's walking around the war room talking about stop this deal with Roger Stone. That was not every member of the administration, otherwise you would have been exposed to that in advance.
Yeah, well, I mean I was. I was a minor member of the administration at the time. But yes, she was a staff No, not that time. I was a specially on void in Northern Ireland under story six understand.
Yah, I've been. I've been in Northern Ireland for about six eight months.
Thank you for reminding us of that.
Otherwise I would have been involved in a lot more January sixth investigations than I was.
I suspect that's absolutely true.
Talk to us about what's happening inside this transition right now, because they're trying to move beyond obviously the story there we're describing and reading the interview today in Axios with Susie Wilds that the whole mantra is no drama this time.
Yes, is that possible?
Yes, it is? It is it?
Would I bet on it? Yeah, No, I think it's But you asked me if it's possible, it's absolutely possible. What she like out in her in her Acxios interviews, exactly what you would want a chief of staff to lay out. It's textbook, It's absolutely perfect. The question is going to be can she pull it off? Or is somebody I'll use one of my favorite foils, Peter Navarro going to go out and start leaking to the press as soon as he doesn't get the answer that he wants in a White House meeting.
He did it all the time. We all knew he did it all the time. If the President.
Continues to or allows that to happen this time, then it will undermine Susie's ability to run the building in the way she laid out standing leaks as the key. Well, it's just hiring people who buy into the fact you're on the team. John Bolton was never on the team. Up beat up on Bolton for a second. I mean John always thought that he was the president and if Donald Trump decided something that went against what John Bolton thought he should do, John thought it was his duty to.
Try and change that.
And if he would go out and leak or do whatever to try and change the president's decision, that undermines the authority of the chief. It undermines the proper operation of a West Wing. So no, if Susie's able to do that, and in order to do that, she has to get the buy in of Donald Trump. And now you asked me if it's possible, I said yes, Why because it looks like it happened on the campaign.
It really did. You have to imagine during that campaign.
Go back and remember there were some really high points and some really low points during the twenty twenty four campaign. And if she was able to sort of right the ship and keep things calm, quiet and button down during the good times and the bad, that's as good as indicators to what it might be like for her running the West Wing.
In that interview, Susie Wiles also pushed back against the notion that these big accomplishments needs to happen in the first one hundred days. To summarize her words, she basically thinks that's an arbitrary deadline. But we do have questions about what will happen in the most immediate term when Donald Trump takes office, including how the reconciliation process is going to work, whether it's going to be one big, beautiful,
powerful bill or two. This is what the House Speaker Mike Johnson had to say about yesterday.
We're fifteen days out from the inauguration of President Donald J. Trump for his second term, and we want to make sure that we're jump starting the agenda now over the next two weeks so that he's prepared and ready on day one. President Trump is going to prefer, as he likes to say, one big, beautiful bill, and there's a lot of merit to that because we can put it all together one big up or down vote, which can save the country quite literally. Reconciliation is the way to
get it done. Why, because you avoid a sixty vote threshold in the Senate. We're targeting a vote in the House and maybe in the first week of April.
So timeline is one thing here, Mick, but just how this gets done is another. He Mike Johnson. Others in the House have long been advocating for one big bill. Senator John Thune, the Majority leader, wants to Donald Trump despite advocating for one bill and true social over the weekend. In an interview with You, Hewitt this morning said he's open to either. So how do you see this going down?
Well, Trump runs the place right and he should. He runs the Republican Party. They're in control of the town right now, so he gets to make those decisions. And if I'm Donald Trump, if I'm Chief of staffed Donald Trump, why do I care if it's one bill or two? How do I get what I want? How do I get my agenda approved? If you tell me I get a better chance of doing that with one bill, Yay, let's do one bill. If it's got to be sixteen
different bills, I'll do that. The question is going to be this as to whether or not one bill or two and it has to be one of those. It can't be sixteen because they only get two shots at the reconciliation apple. Right, two bites at that apple is do you gain votes by putting a bunch of disparate stuff together or do you lose votes? Because keep in mind, I don't think they can lose any votes.
Well, and with your knowledge of the House, which do you think the answer is?
Yeah?
I mean historically in Washington, d C.
The reason you get these massive bills that everybody says they hate is that that's what passes. Okay, these omnibus bills you're really talking about, for lack of a better word an omnibus reconciliation bill. We're going to do immigration and tax and border and everything else all at one time. Right,
it's not a single issue bill. I think maybe they look at that and say, you know what, you might be a fiscal conservative and you might not like what the tax does to the to the deficit, but you really like the other stuff, and all in all you'll vote for it.
So maybe that's the logic.
Be very curious to see what the Senate parliamentarian thinks of all this. When we do the bird bath bird path, Well have you come on to talk about it. But in our remaining moment or two whatever we have left here, you're the chief of staff. You're the gatekeeper at the White House.
Chief of staff is not the gatekeeper.
But keep going, keep okay, some people describe it as such. You can give us a reality check on that is Elon Musk not the guy you're most concerned about right now because he's got the keys to.
The Oval office.
No, no, I want if i'm if i'm I want Musk on the team. I mean he's being on the team.
He's out there freelancing though, isn't he Listen?
If I can have one of the smartest people in the world who's aligned with me on many of my of my priority of my legislat priorities. That's usually a good thing. Do you have to manage personalities? Yeah, but it's Washington, d C.
You guys know, the two biggest personalities maybe in the world.
And people say all the time, oh, you know, when will they have their falling out. I don't know if they can afford to have a falling out.
I really don't.
I think they're both now, they're they're sort of tied at the hip. Trump can't afford to lose to lose Musk, and must can't afford to lose Trump, so they're married for the for the for the good part. What I think is the thing that I put back my old omb had on is I want to know when Elon Musk figures out that it's easier to go to Mars than it is to fix Washington, because that's what he's trying to do with Doge and he's and I say that only half jokingly, that is the biggest task. I'm
glad that it's getting attention. I'm glad that it's sexy. All of a sudden everybody wants to talk about Doge. It's been a great marketing standpoint, a great marketing campaign. We tried to do it in the first term, failed miserably.
That was me.
Donald Trump is a lot, I mean, Elon Musk is a lot smarter than I am, so maybe he can pull it off. But if I'm Trump, I want, I want, I want, always want Musk on the team.
Wow.
All right.
Mick Mulvaney, former acting chief of staff in the first Trump White House, former congressman from South Carolina, here with us in our Washington, d C studio on a snow day. Thank you so much for just have more ahead at five pm, a lot.
More to talk about. The vote has been certified.
Join us at five pm Eastern on the fastest show in politics, This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.