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This is the fastest show in politics, but we have to keep obviously not only tabs on the market, but the intersection of Washington and Wall Street. That's what makes this show special. And we welcome you on Bloomberg Radio, on the satellite and on YouTube. The road show begins. This is what happens coming off the debate, right, all the pollsters go on the field and the candidates hit the road. You could probably tell me where they're going at this point if you listen to this broadcast. But
Kamala Harris back on the road today. North Carolina is where it's going to happen. Charlotte, Greensboro, Tim Walls in Michigan, Yes, hello Grand Rapids. Doug Mhoff heading to Arizona, Nevada, Florida the next couple of days, and of course the Trump campaign is traveling as well. This is it. This is the last big push right Donald Trump today in Tucson, Arizona, where he will be focusing on Latino voters onto Nevada. After that with an event on inflation and the economy
in Las Vegas on Friday. That's tomorrow, finally Friday. So thanks for joining us here. This is a very important day. I don't think enough people are talking about this. It was supposed to happen last week. North Carolina, remember, was going to send out the first batch of absentee ballots, and because of the challenge from RFK Junior, that was delayed. So we can tell you now of a straight face that today voting begins and the prize goes to Alabama.
Somebody tell Rick Davis. Alabama wins the race here mailing out the first absentee ballots this morning, overtaking North Carolina, and there's a big one coming on Monday. That's where we start with Laura Davison, Bloomberg Politics editor, driving our coverage in the newsroom here in Washington. It's always great to see you. This is important time here, particularly noting the confusion that Donald Trump has brought to this matter.
This is an important strategy, right, get people to vote now, even as he questions the veracity and legality of early voting.
Yeah, what both you know sides have realized sort of at a party structure, maybe not necessarily in the Trump campaign structure, is that if people vote now, it means that you know, on election day they don't decide that, you know, they don't really want to or the lines are too long, or they have to work. If they vote now, that's in the bag and then that vote is solidified. So you know, in Alabama, the ballots are going out. In North Carolina they should be going out soon, obviously,
a state that is now more in play. And in Pennsylvania on Monday, the first state and perhaps the most important state that's huge, we'll start early voting, which means that you know, people can go to the polls now. And so if the candidates realize this that they have to be convincing voters now. You can't really leave anything on the table till isn't that run for it.
That's why this debate again was so important this week, to think that some folks voted in North Carolina before that happened, they didn't have a chance. Now everyone's seen the debate. We got new numbers by the way, those were preliminary ratings we gave you yesterday at fifty eight million. Turns out, sixty seven million people watched that debate this week, which is an overwhelming number and a lot more than we saw in the first.
Debate, a lot more than we saw in the first debate, a lot more than we saw, like almost three times what we saw for the convention. So this is a huge audience, perhaps the largest audience that either of them are going to have. And then when you counsel with the knock on effects of all of the clips, if your social media foot feed looked anything like mine, it was just full of all sorts of memes and moments from the debate.
Yes, right as far as early voting goes down, these people are armed with whatever they saw or wanted to see on Tuesday night. Alabama is one thing. It's the first and that's why we're making something out of it. But voters there actual they have to have a reason to vote by mail, such as being absent from the county or working on election day. Some other states have looser requirements. How do the campaigns target them so they you really.
See the t travel schedule, you know it's all about Pennsylvania and North Carolina right now. You know, you see Harris, she's in a North Carolina today, She'll be in Pensylvania tomorrow. Biden will be going on Monday, the day that voting kicks off. Trump as well, has been really targeting those early voting states. You see him out west, you know, for the weekend. He's doing a bunch of fundraising, which
is also sort of a weak spot for him. Right now, He's will be in California meeting with some big.
Ground game too though. Right it's door knockers, it's advertising, it's telling people not everybody knows that this is on already.
And we've started to see some of the advertising from the super PACs. Those outside groups really pick up. So like Elon Musk's pack is hiring doorknocker specifically in North Carolina and Michigan, which is interesting that they see sort of weak spots there as well as advertising, you know, specifically to young men, another kind of area where you see that you know, sort of the soccer moms that were the sort of swing vote back a couple cycles ago.
Now the Trump campaign is looking at at young men.
I'm asking everybody this you can give me a yes or no if you want. Is there going to be another debate?
I wouldn't bet on it. There will be a vice residential debate.
I thought about that answer. Sounds like a no on.
The you know, uh, the Trump has been all over the board. Remember he you know, he didn't want to have this first debate. Then it did that he didn't. These things can change on time, but right now it seems that he is down on another debate.
Interesting as always to spend time with Laura Davison. Great work this week on the debate and always covering this campaign. Where are we at here? We're under sixty days, right, we're getting closed fifty five. Wow, Laura Davison is the one who fifty three, says producer James I was told there'd be no math Bloomberg Politics contributor, Thank you and
editor Laura Davison. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. As we turn our attention, i'd say to what's happening in Ukraine, But it's really here in Washington where we have a real argument, a concerted debate underway.
Now.
We brushed up on this yesterday about what to do with Western provided and specifically US provided weapons in Ukraine should they be used offensively against Russia outside of the Curse region where we've already seen across border incursion. It's causing a split inside the Republican Party, as Donald Trump, who wouldn't even say the other night if you wanted Ukraine to win this war, finds himself at odds with a lot of hawks here in Washington, Michael McCall among them,
Mike Rodgers, who are calling for this to happen. A Democrat named Ben Cardon is doing the same. Obviously very important here when we talk about the Foreign Relations Committee in the Senate, we wanted to talk to an authority about this important moment because this could be a change in the war. Kelly Grico is back with US senior fellow at the Stimpson Center's Reimagining US Grand Strategy program. When we talk strategy, we call Kelly and it's great
to see you here. Kelly. How important and we're told by the way that a decision could be imminent here at least that's what the whisper is in Washington. How important would be that change in strategy to loosen these restrictions?
First, thank you for having me, I'm afraid I don't think this decision will actually have, you know, a real effect on the battlefield. I think it will be a short window if they're given these kinds of permissions that it will make a difference. But again, I think that anyone who is expecting that taking you know, the leashes off and allowing the Ukrainians to engage in longery strike is fundamentally going to change the trajectory of the war is going to be disappointed.
Well, I know you're going to tell me why. Because Ukraine says they can start knocking down these MiGs that carry the big missiles the minute they take off if they're allowed to.
Kelly, yes, So you know, the Ukrainians have been clear about what they want to target, which is air bases and also logistics hubs. The problem though for Ukraine is that Russia is very large, and so yes, the Russians can pull back their aircraft, they can pull their aircraft in particular further back. But to really have an effect, you know, and really degrade Russian capabilities, we would need to be able supplying the Ukrainians with really large numbers
of missiles. So whether that's atackums or something like DASMS and certainly an INTACTMS.
We don't have the numbers for this kind of large campaign.
And for them to use a missile called JASM, which is a surface air to surface missile with their sixteens, they would have to fly their sixteens increasingly into Russian air space where they would be very vulnerable to air defenses.
So this is not so much a matter of permission, it's having the actual hardware to make it dent, Kelly, Is that right?
Yeah, I mean it is about permission in the sense that the Ukrainians have respected the US decision, you know, that not to use certain things on Russian territory, and
so they definitely want those permissions. But I think when we're looking at the permissions, we should ask ourselves what are the actual military benefits here as we weigh that in comparison to sort of the escalatory risks, And in my I would just argue that I don't think that the benefits are significant enough to necessarily justify the escalatory risks.
Well, you've had a way of being right so far in this conflict, Kelly, and I'm sure that you watched the debate along with the rest of US the other night. Ukraine did play a bit of a role in the conversation. Donald Trump was asked twice I refer to this if he wanted Ukraine to win the war. Let's go back to Tuesday night in Philadelphia. Here's how it went. Do you want Ukraine to win this war?
I want the war to stop. I want to save lives that are being uselessly, people being killed by the millions. It's the millions. It's so much worse than the numbers that you're getting, which you are fake numbers. Look, we're in for two hundred and fifty billion or more because they don't ask Europe, which is a much bigger beneficiary to getting this thing done.
Than we are. Okay, that said, Kelly, what would a Trump two point oh mean for this question that we're asking today, These restrictions would remain in place.
Right, I would think they certainly would. I think the larger question, though, is, you know, this question of victory. What does victory look like in Ukraine? You know, I think, at least in the West, we often think of that perhaps too much, in terms of military victory, that you win by imposing, you know, a complete victory on your
adversary and that's not going to happen for Ukraine. But you can't achieve a political victory, you know, so that at the negotiating table, that it's able to keep its country or largely keep its country intact. And I think the military realities are suggesting that both parties are going to need to head at some point to a negotiating table.
You say, at some point, and President Zelenski would say, that's why I need these restrictions to come off. We need leverage, we need to make a dent before we sit down to negotiate. If I can even use that word with Vladimir Putin, does he have a point?
Yes, I mean I understand this idea that he wants to negotiate from a position of strength. That's certainly true. You know, I'll be I'll just say that I'm very actually, very concerned about Ukraine in military position right now.
You know, I think the Kursk offensive.
Has sent a lot of manpower and equipment to this to Kirsk, and we now know that the Russians are engaged in a conor offensive to try to take it back. But at the same time that they're now launching this
counter offensive. They're making gains in the east in Donbas, and the Ukraine's a position is quite fragile there at the moment, and so, you know, I think there's real concerns about Ukraine's ability to sustain the war at this moment, and I actually think that might be one of the reasons, you know, that the Bide administration is even entertaining this idea of long range strike because we've tended to escalate at these moments when we fear Ukraine is losing, and so,
you know, rather than trying to achieve a real victory, I think for.
Ukraine on a military sense, we need to.
Figure out what's the way to prevent a Russian military victory, and that's probably really strengthening defensive positions.
Great insights from Kelly Grico, and like to ask you about what's happening in the Middle East, Kelly, with your expertise here in military strategy. It's an important headline. They're sending the Teddy Roosevelt home. This is the USS Theodore Roosevelt Aircraft Carrier Strike Group. It was a big deal and a rare move to have two of them steaming
their way toward the Middle East. When a retaliatory strike by Iran was anticipated the USS Abraham Lincoln still there, What does this tell you when we peel off an entire carrier strike group, has the threat level diminished?
Yes, I mean I would say that's certainly with a signal that's being sent, there's that there must be a feeling in the administration, given whatever intelligence they have to suggest that a strike is not imminent. I think it's quite remarkable, frankly, that we haven't seen an Iranian attack. It's clear that the Iranians, on their part, have been careful about escalation, and it seems that they have at least for the moment, decided not to proceed with some
kind of major escalatory act. Obviously, that's very good news for the Middle East and for all of us.
We were asking in the newsroom if this might be a part of the negotiating process, if this was an ask, for instance, as part of ceasefire negotiations.
Wow, that's a really good question. You know, it's possible.
I mean, I can't imagine that is necessarily something that you know, Hamas is particularly as much interested in, but of course their Iranian backers may have asked for that and it may be some kind.
Of negotiation, an official negotiation.
With the Iranians, and then the Iranians would put more pressure on Hamas to accept some kind of ceasefire terms.
Amazing. I always love talking to you, Kelly. Thank you for joining us, Skelly grecotiating some light on what is happening in two regions, two theaters of war that the US is involved in, either directly or indirectly. And we'll let you know if there is news and a break on the restrictions that we're talking about here. This is happening now that lawmakers are back in Washington, in the wake of the debate that we just played a snippet
for you there. The calls are growing louder among certain members of the Republican conference in the House that could unlock something here. We'll let you know what happens with that.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then royd Otto with a Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
You're in Washington. I'm Joe Matthew on balance of power with politics in mind, but we want to stick with the intersection of politics and the economy because you cannot have one without the other. And an important conversation that we can bring you today at an important event that's underway right now in Washington. The Congressional Black Caucus is having its legislative conference, just a couple of blocks away
from where I'm sitting in Nicole Austin. Hillary is the president and CEO of the CBC Foundation, and she's with us now on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Nicole, thank you for joining us. We've been spending time talking about kitchen table stuff. As people like to say, in the world of politics, prices, the strength of the job market, and the availability of housing. All of these are very important
issues for your members and of course their constituents. As they say, prices don't have d's or r's attached to them. This is obviously a big issue for people no matter where they live. And Donald Trump is telling a story now that he says is more attractive to black voters that he did more for black Americans when he was in office than Democrats have been able to do in lifting them up, finding opportunity, increasing wages. How do you see it?
First of all, I'd like to thank you for having us on the show today. Look, the Annual Legislative Conference is fifty three years old. This is our fifty third annual conference, and this is an opportunity for all of Black America, and in fact all of America to come together and talk about those issues that are most salient to the Black community. And we know that issues that
impact the Black community impact all of America. All of those issues right now, economics, closing the Black wealth gap, dealing with disparities, housing, all of those issues are the most prescient issues right now for Black America. This is a time for everyday citizens to come to our conference, to stand next two members of Congress, to hear from them in panel discussions, to ask them questions, to stop them in the hallways, to tell them what's going on in their own communities.
And that's why we exist.
That's why we do this conference because we believe that every individual person should be empowered to talk about what is happening in their communities and to impact and be empowered by their own communities and by the work that they are doing so. Again, as you said, I love that you said, this is not about whether you're an RD, whether you're.
Purple, green, blue, or yellow.
This is about individuals coming together, having an opportunity to hear from their elected officials and having an opportunity to question them, but also make recommendations about what they want to see, the kinds of changes they want to see in their own backyards.
Well, that's a productive conversation, and I'd like to get specific with you about legislative priorities here. But knowing that you were at a watch party, a CBC watch party, looking at that debate on Tuesday, did either candidate bring plans that resonate with black voters and the people you're talking to today.
We know I can't speak for all black voters. You know, the black community is not monolithic. What I can say is that both candidates spoke to issues that are of concern to the Black community and again that are of
concern to Americans writ large. They talked about the economy, they talked about immigration, they talked about housing, they talked about education, artificial intelligence, all of those things that to everyday average Americans is going to impact how they live breede, eat, sleep, how they take care of their families, how they take
care of their communities. I think those were issues that everyone in this country has an obligation to be focused on, has an obligation to be thinking critically about, and has an obligation to them think thoughtfully about as they go into the ballot box in November and make their choices, their personal choices that they think are going to be most beneficial to them and their families.
Well, you just said a lot there, and I find it interesting that we're talking about AI as part of this conversation as well. Maybe AI is part of the kitchen table conversation, Nicole, You tell me because Washington's trying to get its arms around this technology right now, and there is a civil rights aspect to this, isn't there?
Yes?
Absolutely, And AI is something we're talking about here at the Annual Legislative Conference. You know, we have over one hundred sessions and some of those sessions are specifically looking at AI.
You know.
The thing that's interesting about AI is and like all technology, it is often created to ensure a benefit to all of us, but there are often unintended consequences, and particularly when we're talking about technology that can really get into our hearts and homes, that has the ability to survey our movements.
And in fact to help create our thoughts. That's something that we all should be concerned about.
And we know that AI is seen in every aspect in every crucial system of our country, whether we're talking about our monetary system, whether we're talking about our voting system, whether we're talking about how we do our work each
and every day. So it's incumbent upon us, as the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation and the members of the CBC that are leaders here in the country to talk about those issues and to talk about what's going to impact and change how people live each and every day, and how can they ensure that their rights are protected, how can they ensure.
That their voices are heard? And AI is certainly at the heart of that.
Well, Nicole, this is a big deal to our viewers and listeners, many of whom are investing a good deal of capital in this technology right now and trying to figure out if there will be a regulatory answer to what has been incredibly fast growth here. Will the CBC make this a priority in this Congress?
You know, you'd have to talk to the individual members themselves. The individual individual members, of course, have their own legislative agendas, and as a body, they have the legislative agenda. Our work with the CBC is to provide policy and research information and to make recommendations about what we are learning, what our fellows and researchers are developing, and it's then for them to assess it and be thoughtful then about the legislative decisions and recommendations they are making.
So I would urge you and.
Encourage you, and I'm sure they would want to talk to you about how they are centering AI and how they are dealing with it in terms of how they're responding to and being available to their constituents around that issue.
Well, and I'm glad to say that we're in conversation with many of your members on a regular basis here on Bloomberg. Nicole, getting a sense of what else is important as we move forward here with the idea that the housing market is driving a lot of the economic challenges for Americans. Right now, you said something important. You're right, the black voter is not a monolith. But this again is an issue that impacts everybody, whether you're a black
white Latino voter. Cracking the housing market is something that many young voters think is impossible, that they will never realize this. Are any of the proposals on the table that you're hearing about at the conference or on the campaign trail possibly able to unlock that?
Well, I will tell you I am hearing lots of conversations about one centering that as a priority issue, because you're absolutely right, young people and everyone in between is concerned about how can they afford to put a roof over the heads of their families, how can they buy
into the American dream? And we know that home ownership is a way that we pass on generational wealth, and that is something that is particularly important to the black community, especially since we know based on data that it's been very difficult for the black community to pass on similar levels of wealth generational wealth to their families. So we are having conversations about that, and we are One of the things that we're doing is we're listening. This conference
is not just about hearing from the elected leaders. It's about creating a space in a forum where voters, where everyday average citizens can be heard. That's something that is rare, you know, when we have a town hall discussion like we just did this morning.
We had a town hall discussion.
It was to a two part discussion, first where we talked about democracy and the issues that are at state in our democracy, and then we had a second panel on black wealth and how we close the black wealth gap. One of the reasons we have a town halls because a town hall concept is about not only sharing information,
but about listening. One of the biggest things that leaders and elected officials can do is listen to what their constituents and community members are saying is important to them, what they're saying about, what their needs are, and what kinds of changes they want to see. So our conference is unique in that way, and we see that as our obligation. See it as our obligation to provide a forum for for leaders UH to to stand up and and and and and speak to the constituents and community members.
But we also see it as a place where those community members can stop legislators right here in our hallway. If you were here with me now, you would see there are people milling about all over the Washington's Invention Center. You can see members that are going to pass you in the hallway. You have the opportunity to stop them and say, hey, you know, miss legislator or mister legislator,
here's what I'm concerned about in my community. Here's what I'd like you to do, or here's a thought that I have about something that we are already engaged in as advocates and grassroots workers in our community.
That's the beauty of this conference.
And and again I think that's it's that's what's going to help us create real movement and change. It's that that that dance, that delicate dance that has to be done between leaders, uh, not only doing but also being listeners and being empathetic and thoughtful.
Nicole, I only have a minute left, and I want to tap your expertise or your expertise on election security. Something important happened yesterday. The January sixth certification of the election has been declared a national special security event. We will have voted by then. How worried are you about security in the next two months?
You know, I will tell you. We do work here at the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation on voting. And I've spent my career as a civil and human rights lawyer, specializing in and working on voting. I will tell you that we have one of the most secure voting systems in this country. There are so many experts around the country, and our research shows that who work every day to ensure that our systems are working, that they are fair and free, and that they're equitable.
And I believe in those systems.
I think we all should, and I think we should trust in what those experts are doing and know that they have in.
Touch with us.
End of scene. There, Nicole Austin Hillary from the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation On Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then Rounoro with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
Thanks for being with us. Kaylee Lines is off today as we bring you our panel once again with our eyes on the road like Thelma and Louise, Rick Davis and Kristen Hahn heading for North Carolina, while Kamala Harris is at least this will not be a surprise coming off the debate to see where everyone's going. VP Harris Charlotte and Greensboro today. Tim Walls, Grand Rapids, Michigan. The map's not changing, maybe as much as some would suggest,
at least with regard to priorities. Here Doug M. Hoff Arizona, Nevada, Florida the next two days. And Donald Trump's hitting the road as well, talking to supporters today, Tucson, Arizona. Yes, another swing state. He'll be in Nevada tomorrow speaking in Las Vegas. Rick Davis, of course, partner at Stone Court, Capitol Republican strategist and Bloomberg Politics contributor, joined by Kristin Han, democratic strategist from Rock Solutions. Great to see you both here. Kristin,
do you like the sound of this road show? We can start with the Harris campaign because there's been a lot of talk about the Sun Belt, and she is in North Carolina today with NBC News reporting a new batch twenty thousand new volunteers signing up there since the debate. Pretty remarkable numbers. As she zeros in on North Carolina. Tim Walls in Michigan, is it as simple as this, you keep going to the same seven states.
I think you have to, and I think she's smart to go to North Carolina This is a state that wasn't necessarily in play when President Biden was running for reelection, So spending time there is smart. But yes, I think, you know, it's unfortunate, but this race is going to come down to these these swing states, and you know, I think as well as you did during the debate, I think the campaign will tell you that it's still
a very very very tight race. And really hunkering down in these states, making sure that we have the votes, making sure that the ground game, which has been you know, been developed over many many many months, is at its full its peak, will be essential to winning this election because you know, I don't think one debate necessarily changes things as as as far as you know, it's not going to be a landslide. And we need to be
in all of these states pretty regularly. And it's great that we have so many people and so many sargates that can be doing events all at once.
Yeah. Rick, is this the travel discipline that you would be showing trying to reach the voters in these seven states?
Oh for sure.
I mean I think now the priority on fundraising going to places like New York and California where the donors are is much much less important than going where the votes are. And in fact, I'm really surprised Donald Trump's going to spend any time in California. You're not there looking for votes, you're there looking for money. And it may be a sign that they're feeling a little bit less competitive financially than they need to be in these states, and so they're going around to pick up some.
Extra cash along the way.
But the other thing I think that's really interesting is, you know, there's quite a contention of Harris Sergis out there that are, you know, making good waves in the swing states. And I think it's a real handicap for Trump not to have have his wife out there campaigning for him. I mean, she's nowhere to be seen in this campaign from start to finish. She's not raising money for him. Why can't she go to California? Let him go to North Carolina or someplace like that. And then
they have vans basically shadowing Harris. You know, we call it bracketing. You know, he goes to the states right before her, right after her, and right now he's shadowing her in these states. And that is more about her strategy than it is about their strategy. So in a campaign where it's all about one person, that works great, maybe you know, when in primaries and that kind of thing, but you want as many, you know, people out there hammering away in these states as you can for the
next fifty five days. And I just this looks like to me that Trump campaigns getting out gunned.
Well, this is interesting. So I think we've established the rationale the seven swing states. So kristin Channel four in New York says Donald Trump will be holding a rally on Long Island on Wednesday. What's he doing there?
I don't know, And I don't know what jd Vance is doing there. Like Rick said, you know, he's there for a few fundraisers. So, you know, it seems like they're a little off. I mean, Trump has said, you know, I think California is in play, which is just ridiculous on the face of it. So I'm not sure exactly what their camp strategy is. I can't really speak to it, but I do know that the Harris Walt's campaign knows exactly what they're doing going around to all these states.
And like Walt said, you know, we can sleep when we're dead because there's so much work to be done. I think Trump doesn't think that he has to do the same things that normal candidates have to do. I mean, he said I don't even have to campaign to win, and I hope, certainly hope that's not true, because it really is the difference, particularly in states like Pennsylvania. He the difference ten thousand votes or less and the campaigns
on the line. So you know, maybe he's going to places where he feels comfortable.
I want to get into the campaign apparatus with both of you and Rick inside the Trump campaign. The reports that are emerging following the debate, in which he said a number of things that the campaign surely did not
prepare him to say. When we consider the influence of Chris las Sevida, Susan Wiles, he held a war room, as it's being referred to and reporting by Axios, with a number of influencers so called who he has surrounded himself by, including the guy behind Pizzagate, the conspiracy theory,
and anti transactivist I've never heard of. Also Laura Lumer, who of course joined him at Ground zero yesterday and believes that nine to eleven was an inside job and spent the last couple of days promoting these ideas that Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio were eating people's pets. That
actually came out of his mouth. Of course, during the debate, you have dealt with challenging candidates, Rick, and I wonder what happens inside a campaign when you've lost the direct control over the message from your candidate.
Yeah, and this is all being facilitated by Donald Trump himself. I mean, what's interesting about this is this Trump versus his campaign. Normally, the camp PA has issues inside direction, strategy, what kind of ads we ought to be, you know, posting up how much money do we want to put in these states? And that's a healthy, lively debate that you know, sometimes gets bogged down, but otherwise is what
every presidential campaign goes through. What's happened with the Trump campaign is he's kind of gone rogue on his own campaign. I mean, the idea of having Laura Lumer on the plane talking to him about topics going into the presidential debate I had to have driven Chris Losovita and Susie Wilds crazy. I mean, it's bad enough that Trump won't sit for debate prep, but to have someone chirping in his ear right before he goes on the stage about
Haitian immigrants eating dogs and cats. No wonder he talked about it. And by the way, that's his whole mo. It's the last person in his ear and that's what comes out of his mouth. So yeah, I mean, it's a it's a real struggle, and at a time when for performance matters, right and the debate performance matters. What he says on the stop now matters, and in addition to where he goes and what kind of events he's having, And so I really do think we've got a rogue situation.
We've had it since his speech at the convention where he decided to go off script and do his own thing, and honestly, ever since then, you know, it was kind of the height of his campaign and it's only been kind of dribbling down from.
There, Kristen. Even Marjorie Taylor Green is calling out Laura Lumer on Twitter. It's a pretty ugly sweet that I will not read on the air that Marjorie Taylor Green retweeted called appalling and extremely racist, which might give you a sense of where we are on this particular note. Is it the campaign's job? Is it not the campaign's job to protect the candidate from people like this.
I mean, I don't think that they can. I mean, you're looking at Lauren Bobert. I saw that and it was kind of shocking that somebody like her would would go against him. But I think the campaign, the campaign can only do so much with personalities like that. And I think going back to what we were talking about earlier with the with the you know, productive surrogates, and that's where the Harris Balts campaign is really able to
cover a lot of these states. You know, the campaign, You've got Trump who's on the stump saying, you know, I should I go personal and everybody says yes, and he goes, great, I'm gonna fire all of my campaign consultants. I mean, he clearly doesn't listen to any of them. He doesn't care what they have to say. That's the
way it was the first time around. But you know, if the Democrats can really hit the ground and really put in the work and appeal to these voters in the middle who Trump clearly doesn't think he needs to win the election, you know, then I think that will ultimately be successful.
Yeah, Rick, question from a terminal user, what's the Republic encounter if there is one, I will insert here to Democrats having Taylor Swift pushing eighteen to twenty five year olds to vote with an actual link to register in her Instagram story.
Yeah, it's tough stuff.
We had a lot of a lot of celebrities endorsing Barack Obama when we ran John McCain against him in two thousand and eight, and it's it's look, I mean, part of what you got to talk about is she's taking upon herself all these you know, crazy liberal ethics that exist in Hollywood, and she's become the Hollywood candidate. We called Barack Obama celebrity. We didn't think that was a good thing for him. And so there is a way to push back. And you are defined by the
people who endorse you. So everyone thinks, wow, you know, this is a great endorsement, but there are going to be people who don't like well maybe not in the Taylor Swift's case, but other endorsements, and so yeah, but like it's a bombshell hard to deal with and it's almost like your wasting your breath even getting into the discussion. So it's Taylor Swift versus Kid Rock I guess, Kristin, do we have a battle of the bands.
I don't think there's much of a battle there.
I would totally agree with Rick, you know.
On the celebrity endorsements. I always kind of kind of cringe a little bit every once in a while because Democrats, you know, we've always been painted as like the Hollywood out of touch, you know, candidate. But I think I put the Swifties all on their same their own, their own space, because also, you know, one of the big things Democrats are trying to do is outreach to younger people, and that's something I think she can really help with.
The link is in the post for crying out loud. Hey, Kristin, it's great to see you. Kristin Han Rock Solutions, Democratic strategist and of course Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor partner at Stone Court Capital. A great conversation as always, Leon Panetta is coming in next. On the Fastest show in Politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the bloom Balance of Power podcast kens just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and enroun Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Thanks for being with us on the Thursday edition as we stand by for news on Ukraine. This is important. It will likely happen before we ever get down to
a matter of funding the government. As Bloomberg reports, a decision on Ukraine's request to use Western provided US provided weapons offensively against Russia is unlikely to come before the UN meeting that we're standing by four in New York, scheduled for September twenty two and twenty three, but President Biden may weigh in on a potential policy shift sooner than that. We've heard from Anthony Blincoln, We've heard from
Ben Carden, We've heard from Michael McCall. And it's always an honority here from Leon Panetta, who's with us right now on Bloomberg TV and radio, of course, the former US Secretary of Defense, former CIA director, former White House Chief of Staff alongest business card in Washington. Mister Secretary, it's great to see you here. Do you anticipate that we will let our hands off the reins here to allow Ukraine to take the fight to Russia.
Well, I certainly hope we give them a little more room to be able to strike it Russian targets and be able to defend themselves. So I'm hopeful that they can find a way to give Ukraine a little more flexibility to be able to go after those vital targets that are frankly attacking Ukraine without any kind of retaliation. That's got to stop.
Should they be allowed to shoot down miggs that are taking off in Russia armed to attack Ukraine.
Well, again, I think it's important to give them the ability to fully defend themselves. If those megs are going after targets in Ukraine, then I think they should take steps to be able to defend themselves against that kind
of attack. Look, this is a war and Russia is using everything they have to be able to go after Ukraine, and I think it's our responsibility and the responsibility of our allies to be able to make sure that Ukraine is fully armed, has all of the weapons that are necessary in order to fully defend themselves in this war.
Well, it's something the air raid sirens we know go off in Kiev the minute those MiG thirty ones take off loaded for bear. Mister secretary, I'm sure you watched the debate the other night. There were a lot of questions about what would happen to Ukraine policy if Donald Trump were re elected. He was asked repeatedly, and we can share this moment of the debate with our audience whether he even wants Ukraine to win. Here's how it went.
Do you want Ukraine to win this war?
I want the war to stop. I want to save lives that are being uselessly, people being killed by the millions. It's the millions. It's so much worse than the numbers that you're getting, which are fake numbers. Look, we're in for two hundred and fifty billion or more because they don't ask Europe, which is a much bigger beneficiary to getting this thing done than we are.
Mister secretary, you can weigh in on what you think of Trump two point zero might mean for Ukraine. But we hear from a lot of Trump supporters who say, you know what, no new war has started when he was in office and the world was a safer place.
How do you respond, Well, I think that if you're going to be a world leader, you have to stand up to our enemies. You have to stand up to tyrants and to terrorists, and you have to build strong alliances. And that's not what Trump is about. Trump thinks that somehow he can operate alone and cut deals. I mean, the fact that he would not say that Ukraine should be successful at defending their democracy tells you an awful lot about the way he approaches these issues. And it's
basically appeasement. It's capitulating to our adversaries, and that's not a way to promote peace in the future. Yeah, I could get your piece in the short term. I mean, he said he can basically cut deals on all of the crises that we are facing right now. Yeah, he could by simply caving in and letting our adversaries get
everything they want. You know, that's an approach, frankly, that Neville Chamberlain tried with Hitler in Czechoslovakia, and in the end, it didn't pay off then and it won't pay off now. So I would prefer a president that is willing to stand up to our adversaries, build strong alliances, and exercise responsible world leadership. And that's not what Trump does. He didn't do it in his first term, and he wouldn't do it as another president.
Well, you know, he likes to take credit for encouraging incentivizing European nations to contribute more to NATO, for instance, What would happen to that alliance under a Trump two point zero.
I'm just afraid that deep down Trump, and he's pretty much said it. As an isolationist, he wants to withdraw from the rest of the world and basically handle things on his own. And my view is that we live in a dangerous world that requires United States world leadership, and it requires our ability to work closely with our allies. That's the key to being able to confront tyrants and terrorists in the world. And so I just worry that what he would try to do is basically weaken our
relationship with our allies try to operate alone. And look, you know, I mean the record is not that good. I mean, he spent three meetings sitting down with Kim Jong mun and didn't get a damn thing. So I'm not that that encouraged that he knows how to cut a good deal.
How well do you know Vice President Harris mister secretary her experience has been called into question by her rival in this case, does she have the confidence to run the United States military?
I think she does. You know, I've known her since she was a prosecuting attorney. I knew her as a district attorney and as Attorney General, and I find her to be a pragmatic prosecutor, which is not a bad thing to be when you're going to be president in the United States and have to deal with challenges and look at the evidence involved with each of those challenges
and crises. So I have a feeling based on what I saw or do as Vice President meeting with foreign leaders, understanding the crises that are out there, Understanding the role that the United States has to play, and most importantly, respecting not just the role of our veterans, which Trump continues to criticize, but understanding the role of our military. The role of our military is to defend us from foreign enemies. It's not to threaten Americans. It's not to
round up immigrants into camps. Our military has its first loyalty to the Constitution of the United States, not to the President.
I have to ask you about what's happening in the Middle East before we let you go, mister Secretary. There's news that the US is bringing the USS Teddy Roosevelt home. We had a rare moment where two carrier strike groups were in the region for fear that Iran would retaliate. Does this tell us that that threat level has diminished so much that we don't need the deterrence any longer.
No, not at all. And my understanding is that the Harry Truman carrier is going to be deployed to that area soon, and I think we will continue to have to provide the military protection in that region, particularly if there's no ceasefire. We're going to continue to see missiles thrown at one another, and the United States has got to be prepared to defend against those missiles, particularly in the Red where the Houthis have continued to go after
ships in the Red Sea. So I believe will continue to have a strong presence in the Middle East.
Fascinating. I think that's news there. The Harry Truman apparently on its way. Leon Pennet, it's great to see you, mister Secretary. Thank you so much for being with us. As always, the insights on Bloomberg TV and Radio from the former Secretary of Defense, former director of the CIA, and former White House Chief of Staff, never mind member of Congress. He's now founder of the Panetta Institute. Thanks
for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.