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I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington. Thanks for being with us on Balance of Power on Bloomberg's TV and radio. The meeting began just before we took air on the radio at noon, Kailey. It wrapped up about ninety minutes later. Two issues at hand, government shut down that's four days away unless they come up with a
plan and funding for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan. It's very difficult to tell based on what we heard from Democrats or Republicans leaving that meeting, not including Mitch McConnell, who fled to the Capitol, if anything got done.
They said it was productive, they said it was intense. They all seemed to be trying to express optimist that a shutdown was going to be avoided. Didn't necessarily give us much clarity as to how. And something else that Mike Johnson specifically brought up. First thing was the border. He said he had a frank conversation about President Biden on that in the one on one meeting they had after the other three congressional leaders left the room and
are all now presumably leaving the White House. Interesting optics. Indeed still at the White House though, is Bloomberg's White House correspondent, Akayla Gardner, who is joining us now. So Kayla. Obviously there were a number of different subject areas of discussion here. Did the Biden Did President Biden specifically accomplish what he wanted to with this meeting?
I think it's too early to say whether he got what he wanted accomplished.
At the end of the day, what this meeting really highlighted is there is just a multiple issues that are piling up in Washington that are key to President Biden's agenda.
You mentioned government funding. All four congressional leaders express confidence that they'll.
Be able to invert a government shutdown that is now just three days away that March first. That line that will shut down at least partially the government including Commerce, Education Department, Justice Department, so a huge segment that would affect hundreds of workers here, but all of them expressed result that they will be able to reach an agreement. What is much less clear is whether they'll be able to reach agreement on Ukraine, on funding for Israel, on
Indo Pacific. Those are all things that are still left up up to these lawmakers to decide.
I'm loving this behind the scenes view of a Kayla Gardner at the White House for our viewers on Bloomberg TV and YouTube. But Kayla is standing right where the principles were a couple of moments ago. This is where the stakeout happens, right in front of that West wing portico.
At Kayla, you are the newsmaker.
Now, I'm curious if you know did Mike Johnson actually leave the building.
He did leave the building.
We don't know if he had ice cream with President Biden, but he did get that one on one meeting that he's been asking for and that the White House has dismissed for really a long time. And really this meeting comes at a time where there's been clear tension between these two leaders, between Speaker Johnson and President Biden because the White House has just frankly not seen him as a sincere negotiator. They feel like they have met his demands to high border funding to Ukraine and Israel.
And yet he got what he wanted today, and we'll see if that is actually going to lead to results and whether this thing can get pasted well.
And of course Mike Johnson talking about the border as he emerged, talking about how America's needs need to be put first, maybe over the needs of allies like Israel in Ukraine. But President Biden himself is making a trip to the border later this week on Thursday. What's his objective going to be if no executive actions come in tandem with that meeting or that visit rather.
You know, that was.
A really interesting part of this discussion because we heard from speak from Senator Schumer that he believed that the President Biden does not have the legal authorities to do some executive action, whether that's an emergency or declaration, what have you. He does not believe that the president has the authorities. And that is also what we've heard from the White House as well. And yet you still have Speaker Johnson saying he wants Biden to take executive action.
Now that is a clear tension here.
But Biden heads to the border on Thursday at the same day as Donald Trump and really highlighting how much of a political liability this has become. Bloomberg News and Morning coulsul pulling continues to show immigration is rising as a top priority, specifically among Republicans, but Speaker Johnson said he's heard from voters across the political party this is an issue that they're seeing in their cities.
Kayla, are you on pool duty today? Were you in the Oval office for that brief period of time?
I am, And it's writing outside.
Oh my god, what you're getting wet for us as well, So you were in there. Chuck Schumer said it was intense. What did he mean, It's.
Hard to say.
I mean, you were not a part of those discussions. It was a closed door meeting. But that is a huge statement here from the Senator because of course you've been in Washington for many years, and he said it's one of the most intense discussions that he has been a part of. But again, that just shows how many issues are just piling up and the frustration has to
be huge for him as the Majority leader. Because the Senate has now passed two different legislations, one tying all of these broad priorities to the border and one without it. He is just frankly, just caught in a stalement here and he's not able to get some of these bills that have just been taken painstaking months of negotiations through the House. Johnson has just refused to put those who a vote, and so we'll see what happens next after this meeting.
This is incredible zooming with a Kayla live from the White House. Can we make this a regular?
We got to use a star.
We have to do it on the regular. Kayla, thank you so much for stopping down. She's on pool duty but still with us here on Balance of Power. White House correspondent for Bloomberg and Kayla Gardner many thanks for bringing us inside the perimeter there on the driveway. They don't let us walk around there with cameras. That's a special moment with a.
Kayla's to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play and enroud Oro with the Bloomberg Business app.
You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Very short remarks from the House speaker Mike Johnson after this meeting not just with the other big congressional leaders at the White House, but afterward a one on one sit down Joe with President Biden himself, in which the House Speaker said he brought up the issue of the border. He says, America's needs me to be put first, have to have an open talk about the open border.
He says.
The other big priority is funding of the government. And he also echoed the optimism we heard from Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffreys that he does believe we can get to an agreement to avoid a shutdown. Of course, the partial shutdown would begin this Friday.
So everyone said what they needed to say. I still don't have an idea of how that went in there. I have to be perfectly honest with you. Mitch McConnell left him alone.
Yeah, I went back to this apos feels a little bit weird to me as we bring in a row.
Kumar, principal co leader of the Washington National Tax Service at PwC, spent some time, in fact a good chunk of time working for Mitch McConnell and can help us understand the behind the scenes conversations that are happening when deadlines are approaching and deals are being made or not. In the case of today, Rohit, it's great to see you. You surprise your old boss went back to the Capital
on his own today. Does that tell us how much ground there is between these two the gap between these two Republicans when it comes to the matter of Ukraine.
So not particularly surprised because the gap was known going in. And look, I hate to burst anybody's bubble about what happens in these meetings, but I participated in probably several dozen Ovalopice meetings during my time working on Capitol Hill. I can't remember a single one where I felt like we really advanced the ball. Like we walked to that meeting, We're like, wow, we really achieved something today.
Right.
It just tends to be the same talking points you see on the House and Center floor transmitted in private. You know, in the Oval Office. No one's going to make a big concession in that room. Those breakthroughs, those negotiation breakthroughs, they happen in smaller rooms, in one on one negotiations, typically in the Capitol, not in the O Office.
Every Oval Office meeting I went to was just like an hour or two of couldn't have my phone was going to be horribly behind on email, and we would just read our talking points to one another and then go back and you know, get back to the real work.
Well.
Mike Johnson suggested that work to avoid a shutdown has been happening around the clock, even though the House isn't even back in session yet. They all return tomorrow, at which point there will be about seventy two legislative hours left to avert a shutdown. Do you believe their optimism on the idea that they're getting close to something that would avert a shutdown?
Yeah, so that optimism is actually it's consistent with that I've been hearing in my own conversations, which is that there really is a sense that we're going to get there and I'm going to shut down. It's I think, well, I mean, look, you got to pass either you're going to pass the four appropriations bills that expire on the first, or you're gonna have to have a temporary continuing resolution. I know in the past the Speaker has said no continuing resolutions, but yet we still have managed to do
them in one form or another. And I think, look at rout. Everyone understands that nothing is achieved by a shutdown. I have been a part of a number of shutdown exercises. I've witnessed them from afar. I can't think of a single one where as a result of the shutdown somebody got something that they weren't going to get already, that
they somehow gained the ridge in the negotiation. In fact, if anything, in shutdowns, especially the ones that go longer than a couple of days, you tend to lose leverage, end up getting less than you could have gotten on the front end, because this shutdown is a self inflicted political injury. As mild boss Senter McConnell has said repeatedly, Republicans kind of owned the brand on shutdowns, and not
to their advantage, but largely to their detriment. And so I think most people understand, not all, to be clear, but most understand that you actually don't get much out of a shutdown, and if anything, you might lose something.
Ro Having been in the room for a couple of these, to your point, as the deputy chief of staff to the leader Domestic policy director, you're giving us a sense of what you made of the language coming out of this, But I wonder your thoughts on what the real priorities were. Mike Johnson came out first and foremost talking about the border. Was this a meeting about Ukraine or about a government shutdown?
Look, I mean, once you're in the room, you're talking about everything. But at some level, no huge surprise that Speaker Johnson would come out and talk about immigration and talk about the border. Right all the sort of public polling would suggest that immigration is top of mind for voters. So that makes perfect sense. It's something that Republicans have cared deeply about for you know, this is not like
a new revelation that Republicans care about this issue. And so what that tells me is, look, of all of the things that are floating around in the government funding conversation, immigration is where Speaker Johnson is kind of putting his
chips in the middle. And so I would be looking and paying attention to what, if any concessions are made negotiations are had around immigration and whether that And interestingly, he particularly called out the president and the ability for the President to engage in his own executive action, something which has been clearly what's been reported that the administration
is considering anyway. So I would be looking for money on immigration and maybe some policy, but maybe that policy is not legislative policy but executive action policy.
There's something else i'd like to ask you about giving your experience with Minority Leader Mitch McConnell row hit, which is that there has been reporting this week that there are back channel efforts underway to secure McConnell's endorsement of former President Trump. Of course, we've seen pretty much all
of the Senate leadership at this point do so. But Trump is someone that McConnell has called practically and morally responsible for what happened at the Capitol on January sixth, exactly been shy about his disdain for some of the former president's policies, actions, even words he's spoken against McConnell's wife. Does it surprise you that McConnell will consider endorsing Trump at this point.
Yeah, So, look, I mean, the one thing I will say is that Leader McConnell has been consistent that he would endorse and support the Republican nominee for president, and so despite whatever else he has said about former President Trump, he's also said he would endorse the Republican nominee, and to the extent that former President Trump ends up being the Republican nominee, you know, that would pave a path
for that potentially to happen. I think it's too soon to say for sure which way this is going to go or how this is all going to shake out, but he has been clear that he would support the Republican nominee for president.
There's a lot there considering the impact that Donald Trump could have on this very.
Issue of Ukraine.
Where are you in Ukraine funding? Rod hit We've kind of danced around this a little bit. Is that something that will be addressed once the shutdown is either avoided or cleared somehow?
Yeah, I mean look, Speaker Johnson alluded to this. He said, we're looking at all options. They're clearly looking for a third way.
Right.
Way one would be the Senate bill, Way two would be to do nothing, and way three would be to find some other version of compromise legislation. Again, it's clear immigration is top of mind, and while there was an effort that ultimately failed in the Senate to resolve that issue, maybe the House can find you a different approach that is more than the liking of House Republicans that can pass. But I don't think this issue is going away. Remember
it's not just Ukraine funding, it's also Israel funding. It's also there's some Taiwan money in there as well, So there's more to it than Ukraine, even though Ukraine has been kind of dominating the political headlines.
All right, Roe hit Kumar now of PwC, but of course someone who has in the past worked very closely with Senator Mitch McConnell. Thank you so much for your time. There's a lot to digest here, from Ukraine to the border to avoiding a government shutdown, and we're going to have more on that our political panel coming up.
Joe, you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on.
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Let's bring you inside the West Wing. You're such a Washingtonian to the Oval Office. Just just a sense of what it.
Was like to be in the room.
You've got the four congressional leaders and the president and vice president at the fireplace.
Let's take a look in Ukraine.
I think the need is urgent.
I hope they speak to that a little bit, and I think the consequence of an action every day in Ukraine are dire. I'm speaking to some of who are Teach seven partners.
And referring to the dire needs in Ukraine. If you're with us on the radio showing images of a packed Oval office with the press pool in there, they were quickly a score it out to allow that meeting to happen, Kaylee.
It lasted about ninety minutes from.
Marcount Yeah, it was. It was pretty quick, all things considered, relatively on time, which is all that is the case. No, they weren't going to waste any more time together in each other's presences than perhaps absolutely necessary. But we are always glad to have Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzeno in our presence, at least virtually Bloomberg's politics contributors who are joining us now, Rick Genie. We were just speaking with Rohit Kumar, who used to work in McConnell's office help
negotiate the debt ceiling deal back in twenty eleven. He told us, look, nothing really happens in these oval office meetings, everybody goes back to huddle and rooms at the Capitol and that's really where things get hammered out. Genie, what was the point of today if nothing concrete emerged from it?
Yeah, I mean, I myself didn't expect much productive out of it. I think the President and had an interest in inviting everyone to the White House to show that he is on top of this. And of course when you get an invitation to the White House, you can't refuse it, so off they all went. And you know, from that perspective, I do think this is a self
inflicted wound on the part of the Republicans. You know, Joe Biden wants to run against this do nothing Congress, and he wants to continue to say right through the State of the Union coming up next week, that they just can't get things done. You can't turn the whole government over to these folks because they can't get anything done.
And this just plays into his hands, including the fact that Mitch McConnell didn't go out with his own party member, that he decided to head right back to Capitol Hill.
Who can blame him?
This is a self enforced, self inflicted error on the part of the Republicans. You need to pass the budget. There's no big policy disagreement. This is all politics, and that is not going to play with the American public. So I think it was a small win for the President and a big loss for the Republicans in the House.
Rick, you spoke earlier about the triangulating against Mike Johnson inside that meeting, Everyone but Mike Johnson seems to be rowing in the same direction. Did Mitch McConnell's decision to head back to the Capitol leave him alone in the driveway speak to that?
Sure, Mitch mcconnald didn't want to put him in the position of having to actually disagree with Mitch McConnell, because if Mitch mcconnald stood there, he'd sound more like the majority leader of the Senate, Chuck Schumer, because they actually don't disagree on how to find government, how to fund Ukraine,
and what to do about the border. So he did him a favor by saying, you know what, rather than cause problems for you, as the seasoned Republican here, I'm just going to let you walk out there on your own and I'll head back to the office. So but yes, this was all about pointing the finger at the one person who's standing in the way of a border deal, of a supplemental deal, of a budget deal. Everybody else has agreement on those things, except for Mike Johnson and the Republican caucus in.
The Senate or in the House.
So I think Biden accomplished that. The fact that they had the speaker walk out on his own and basically reiterate those talking points in contrast to everybody else who was at that meeting, isolates him, shows him how a lonely is, and puts all the onus on progress on him.
Of course, as we have the conversation related to the supplemental funding package, it was not just Ukraine that we heard the President raise, but Israel funding as well, because that is a component here, and we know that that potentially could mean that any package in the House could lose support, not just on the Republican side, but on the Democratic side as well. And this is something we're probably likely to see in the Michigan primary, which takes
place today. There's a big effort underway, supported by Arab Musslim Americans to vote uncommitted rather than for President Biden because of his stance on being supportive of israel In despite perhaps what is happening in Palestine and the high civilian death toll. But this is actually something he spoke about with Seth Myers in New York yesterday, talking up the prospect of a ceasefire in the not so distant future. Take a listen to the president.
Can you give us a send what you mean, a fial to start?
Sir, well, I hope by the beginning of the weekend, I mean the end of the weekend at least my not security advisor tells me that we're close. We're close, not done yet, and my hope is by next Monday we'll have a ceasefire.
So next Monday, a ceasefire, Genie. When there is a primary in Michigan today. I think this timing is a coincidence.
No, no coincidence at all. The Monday's no coincidence. He's staring straight down the state of the Union. I think the one unfortunate aspect of that. You know, he's right to say he's hoping we get there. The one unfortunate aspect is the way that video rolls out with the
ice cream and the sunglasses. I don't think that's the look you should be portraying when you're talking about something that your constituents, many of them feel is an absolute travesty of what is going on in Gaza, according to many of those people who are going to be voting today. I don't think you want to address that in terms of the number of deaths and everything else with sunglasses
and ice cream, so that I don't understand. But he is hoping, of course, that we get at least a temporary cease fire, and that is what the President is banking on, and if it comes with the State of the Union week, all the better for the administration and the campaign.
So rick is the State of the Union the real deadline for everything here. We're going to have a ceasefire by then, maybe we'll have a government funding deal, some action on Ukraine Bayway. We even see an executive action on the border that we've reported the President is considering.
A lot could happen between now on next Thursday.
Yeah, no question about it. Some of those things we're waiting on right now. If there's going to be executive border action, you'd think they'd do it before or during the President Biden's trip to the border on Thursday.
I want to remind everybody.
We thought we had a ceasefire deal over a week ago that fell apart. So I think they're trying to get one as soon as they can. Whether that had anything to do with Michigan's primary today, probably not. It's just not that important to the president. But for sure he wants to get these things settled and done before he has to give the State of the Union, and that is a real deadline.
Well, and it's just coming up nine days from now. A lot obviously still to happen in the interim, and perhaps a temporary ceasefire beginning would be one of those things.
But Rick, as we think about that issue specifically how it's showing up in Michigan, and the idea that a significant portion perhaps of a certain demographic is not happy with the way the President is handling this issue, you could also add to the list of young people who are turning away from the president, polling suggests, and the idea that manufacturing, which is a big issue in Michigan, Biden has specifically went to automotive labor and supporting the
unions there. They don't necessarily seem to be more for him than for Trump as a result, just how many different Democrat demographic issues could be showing up for Biden in Michigan, not just in this primary, but as we look ahead to the general election to come.
Yeah, no, I mean Michigan is a real tight rote for Joe Biden. As you mentioned, you've got over one hundred thousand Arab Americans who live in Dearborn. That's in Wayne County. He won Wayne County by sixty eight percent in twenty twenty. But the reality is that's probably too little. He only won the entire election is Donald Trump by one hundred and fifty thousand, So you can imagine if
those Arab Americans sit home, he's got a problem. And the reality is that no state gives you more of a clear picture of the demographics of this election coming up than Michigan, where almost one hundred percent of the vote for Joe Biden's coming out of the cities and one hundred percent of the vote for Donald Trump comes out of the counties. Donald Trump will win virtually all the counties. Will only be a dozen counties that Joe Biden win, but it'll be eighty percent of the vote total.
So you know it's one of the situations that mirrors the country right now, and it's worth watching. And frankly, I can't wait for the next Bloomberg poll to come out so that we can see another trend. As far as what's happening in Michigan for the general election, it's.
But days away.
Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano, great talk. Thanks for being with us on breaking news today. We can always count on our Bloomberg Politics contributors here on Balance of Power, I'm Joe Matthew in Washington alongside Kaylee Lines.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on.
Apocarplay and then roun Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.
We've also got something going on today in Michigan called a presidential primary, and this is a big Joe Biden story. Yes, of course, there's a Republican primary there and they're going to have a caucus this weekend and Donald Trump's gonna win it, and this is all we're hearing. But Joe Biden has got a very specific challenge going on right now. And it brings us back to his policy in Israel and gos It. We've talked about it here before. There's
an abandoned Biden campaign. This is a Democrat campaign in Michigan. There's also a listen to Michigan campaign in which some folks like Congresswomen to leave, are urging Democrats to vote uncommitted. And we wanted to talk to Caitlin Leagaki about this, the partner at Four Corners Public Affairs, one of our democratic analysts here on balance of power, former advisor senior advisor to Commerce Secretary Gina Romando.
Caitlin, it's good to have you back.
How much of a liability is this for Joe Biden as opposed to a media sensation?
I think by and large it's a media sensation. Obviously Michigan is the one state where Biden's Middle East policy has the most opportunity to become an issue. But I think you know what the folks at the Biden campaign are going to do is they're going to look at what comes out of tonight and then view that as an opportunity to go out and identify the voters they need.
To win back.
And so it's actually a huge trove of data for them to go and understand what the state of the play is there. But now, I would also remind you that Barack Obama in twenty twelve, when he was running an opposed also got something like twelve percent in uncommitted vote. So I personally would be more concerned if he was losing forty percent of Democrats the way that Donald Trump
is losing forty percent of Republicans to Nicki Haley. So you know, I think they're going to be very measured about it over at the Biden campaign, and they're going to see what the data tells them and then go from there.
Well, it certainly does not seem to be a coincidence, Caitlin that we got the news from Joe Biden that we got last evening. He talked about it a bit on Seth Meyers's TV show, but he was also asked by reporters while he's eating an ice cream cone about Israel, and the quote was pretty interesting as he suggests that there will be a cease fire announced by Monday. He says his national security advisor tells him, quote, we're close, We're not done yet. My hope is by Monday. We'll
have a cease fire. Would he have said that yesterday if it weren't the day before Michigan?
Oh?
I think he only said it because he was at You know, he is the kind of guy that answers questions from reporters when they ask them. I'm sure that was not a planned, you know, release in an ice cream parlor from the White House. But no, you know, I think that the Biden White House has actually worked very hard to be very responsible about how they handle the situation. Really more a coincidence of timing than anything else.
Interesting line from Andy Levin, the former congressman. He used to come on this broadcast pretty often. Democrat Big Joe Biden ally helped him with build back better infrastructure, the IRA and all the rest of it. He is supporting the uncommitted campaign and he says Joe Biden's problem is not a political problem, it is a policy problem.
Caitlin, what does he mean by that?
I think that there are a number of Muslim Americans, especially in Michigan, who feel that the Biden administration.
Has not done enough to advocate for the civilians in Gaza.
That's what Congressman Levin means. And I think what it also means is that in order for the Biden campaign and the Biden administration just to really communicate with these voters and show that they've been heard, it is going quire some sort of policy shift in terms of either walking a tougher line with Prime Minister net Nyahu doing being more forceful about getting aid into Gaza and supporting
those humanitarian reliefs. And so I agree, you know, the fact of the matter is there are fundamental concerns within this community about how Israel is conducting itself in Gaza, and the Biden White House is going to have to figure out how do they address those concerns make sure those civilians are taken care of, while also staying close enough to Israel to prevent this from spilling out into other countries in the region, which is really the biggest concern for a lot of folks.
Well, and I don't want to spend too much time on this, Caitlin, but when when you talk policy, the public formal stated policy of this administration is that Israel has gone over the top, that there's that restraint should be part of the response here, that a proportionate response should be delivered. But we're not seeing it, of course, should should Joe Biden be punished for what Israel is doing without his approval?
I don't believe so. I also think that, you know, one of.
The hardest things in politics is to prove a negative, and what Joe Biden has done over the last gosh five months now is really prevent a much uglier, much deadlier regional click for breaking out. I think that the Biden administration has shifted and they strengthen their language as it comes to net Niyahu and how Israel is conducting
the war in Gaza. But we also do have to remember that there are hundreds of Israeli citizens that are still being held hostage by a terrorist organization, and we do need to get them home as well, And so it's a very delicate balancing act to make sure that we get those folks home without incurring any additional unnecessary civilian casualties.
Yeah.
Well, the idea here would be that Israel halts the offensive in Gaza in time for Ramadan in exchange for or as they say, if a deal is reached for the release of the more than one hundred remaining hostages, that would be a pretty important moment for Joe Biden. In the meantime, domestically here Kaitlyn Legaki, what does he do in the days ahead. We're going to be counting
uncommitted votes in Michigan tomorrow. That's going to be part of the narrative, questions about his age, questions about whether he can beat Donald Trump in a general election. What's the strategy for the weeks ahead?
I think you know, it's honestly, keep calm and carry on. We have seen the economy continue to get stronger.
That the President and the White House are again.
The adults in the room when it comes to this looming government shut down. They've been very responsible, very conciliatory towards Rupkin's.
Trying to find compromises, and.
All of this is going to build to the State of the Union in a couple of weeks, which is really going to be the biggest platform that the President has between now and the election, to both make a case for what he's done, to make a case for what he wants to do in a new term, and then also to drive that contrast when you look at Republicans in the House who simply can't get it together to fundament they won't take yes for an answer, or when you look at Donald Trump and you look at
the Supreme Court ruling out of.
Alabama banning IVF.
There are two very different visions for America that we're discussing, and Biden's going to use the State of the Union to make that case.
The state of the Union is divided.
It might be right now, but Committee.
I'm out of time, Kaitlin. But can he say that next week?
He will not, because if anyone's going to work harder to pull it back together, it's Joe Biden.
Something attractive about the truth. I tell you what, go up there.
And do a fifteen minute speech, be honest about it. I feel like it would be embraced.
Caitlin. It's great to see you, Lagaki.
Normally with us on our panel, we wanted to drill down on what was happening in Michigan today from Four Corners Public Affairs, great insights. Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, or where you get your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at Noontimeeastern at Bloomberg dot com.