Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. Doors have opened, new subpoenas have been issued, and the damn has begun to break. This election is now all Congress has certified the results. I don't want to say the elections, but it was him pouring gasoline on the fire. Bloomberg Sound On Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. The White House Medical Unit is contacting every single person
who meets the CDC definition. I think it is an opportunity to restress the message of positive message of s GENI said, look how far we've comed Floomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Steve Bannon found guilty of criminal contempt of Congress. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. With a verdict against Donald Trump's former advisor, just a day after the January six Committee holds forth
in prime time. We've got a lot to talk about and specifically the legal case against Bannon, what it means for the large jerk case against members of the Trump White House. Will be joined by Jeffrey Cramer, former assistant
U S Attorney. Now at guide Post, we'll talk more about what the committee accomplished last night and did not accomplish with Bloomberg Congress reporter Billy House, and we'll hear a special interview with documentary and Alex Holder, who did the last interview Donald Trump sat for in the White House. Analysis today from our signature panel after a wild week in Washington, Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis Jeanie Schanzano with us for the hour. The verdict was reached after only
three hours of deliberation. Steve Bannon found guilty two counts of contempt of Congress. Criminal contempt. You may not have realized there was such a thing. It's been a long time since this has happened. Each kerry as long as a year in prison and a fine of up to a hundred thousand dollars, so we could be talking up to two years here. Sentencing is set for October. It
will happen on the twenty one. Bannon stayed quiet in the courtroom today as the verdict was delivered, as he did for most of the sile But like each other day this week, he was glad to talk to reporters who had gathered outside the court house. There are a lot of them too, here's Bannon after the verdict. I want to thank you start by thanking the jury. We respect their decision today. I really want to thank those hard working citizens of Washington, d c. That had to
take an entire week off to go through this. So there, thanks respect the decision. We may have lost the battle here today, but we're not gonna lose this war and more. Where that came from. Bannon, of course, is the first from the inner circle, from Donald Trump's inner orbit, to face actual consequences for not cooperating with the committee. This is all about the January six committee, of course, which leaves us to wonder what it might mean for Peter Navarro,
for instance, he's facing similar charges. There are others from the Trump White House, uh facing should we say, adjacent accusations here, and this could of course get a lot bigger. We add the voice of an expert on this, as you would expect on Bloomberg Radio, Jeffrey Kramer, former assistant US attorney, senior managing director at the firm Guide Post. Jeffrey. Welcome, Steve Bannon. Going to prison either way, always certainly facing a prison time, but it's obviously up to the judge.
Either going to do a year in jail doubtful, you know, could he do a month or so, that certainly would be reasonable, But a non incarcitory sentence you can certainly see as well. Okay, So that's interesting because I understand each count has a minimum thirty days and up to a year. So how how might judge approach this? Well, judge has a lot of discretion cases. And this is obviously Bannon's first conviction. He's got no priors before. Um, so the judge does have a lot of latitude here.
Bannon's attorney, David Shone today says it is not up to Congress, and they really frame this as the heart of the case. It is not up to Congress to decide whether executive privilege applies to a specific case. Is he right? Um? Yes and no. I mean Congress does have the look at it when they're looking at executive privilege. And some witnesses we've seen before the January six Committee have um used executive privilege to not testify in all our part we saw at ciprianly use some of that
to give some testimony. Other parts of the question he declined to answer for that reason. Um, if it comes to a battle. In other words, someone alleges some sort of privilege, any privilege, um, and Congress disagrees with that, then it goes to the courts. Bannon, of course, will appeal, which he spoke about today with again his lawyer David Show. Let's listen against Steve Bannon, and the closed executor missed one very important phrase, right, I stand with Trump and
the Constitution and I will never back off that. Ever, this didn't seem like a mistimeanor from hell, Mr Bannon, what happened that? That's pretty good. Hell, this is round one, that's what happened. Uh. This is a bulletproof appeal. Have you ever in another as seen a judge six times saying the case that they thinks the standard uh for willfulness is wrong? Jeffrey, is it a bulletproof appeal? There's
no such thing as a bulletproof of deal. Um. The you know, the defense was handcuffed a little bit here in the sense that they wanted to put forth certain defenses, uh, and the judge denied those defenses. So they really couldn't argue too much. I think the only argument they had was that the subpoena itself was improperly signed or some ministerial amount like that. So there are some issues that they could bring, you know, certain defenses they wanted to
raise the jury they were not allowed to. So those are viable appeals, but certainly not a not an easy one from Mr Bannon. His team did not present any defense witnesses. Uh what do you make of that decision? Why not build a case around executive privilege? You know, there really wasn't too much of a case, uh to to be brought. I mean they tried to, Like I say, they tried to bring a couple defenses in, but the judge would not allow that. Once the judge denied those motions,
this was basically just a slow moving guilty pleader. There wasn't too much of a defense arguing to make. We saw, not surprisingly a fairly craik verdict. I mean, you know, three hours and lunch, um, So there really wasn't too much to do here for the defense. So the other the other uh item that that they present as as part of the defense is the fact that, for instance, Benny Thompson did not testify. Members of the January six committee who subpoenaed Steve Bannon did not testify Listen again
to Steve Bannon from today. I only have one disappointment and that is the gutless members of that show trial committee that j Sax committee didn't have the guts did come down here and testify an open Does that matter from a legal standpoint, Jeffrey, not at all. Um. Yeah,
I'm sure he would have liked to across examined. But the fact is, you know, a citizen, Mr Bannon was subpoened to come before the panel just to you or I or any or else could be subpoena to coming for a Congress or a grand jury or a trial to be adjured, and you can't just say no. I mean, there are reasons why, if it's privilege or some other thing that's under that's recognized under the law, but you can't just thumb your nose. And that's what happened here.
And that's why I say it really wasn't that difficult the case, but it's not necessary for anyone from the committee to actually testify. You got it, Jeffrey. You're a former federal prosecutor. You spent more than twenty years in corporate investigations, experience in fraud detection. This case, you have
a unique view on this case. What what could it mean for Bannon in the other investigations that are underway now, like we're seeing in Georgia, the Southern District of New York that are that are trying to get into the effort to overturn the election and could be sending out and already have in many cases subpoenas. Could he be in and out of jail for the next several years. Um, well, not just Mr Bannon, but anyone that's subpoenaed before a grand jury. Again, can't just say no, I'm not going
to show up. So yees if if he continues this or anyone continues this, We've seen Mr Navarro's trial coming up in a few months. Um, you know, this is the first shot across the bottle. So while they can thumb their nose at the process, there are consequences to be paid. And then just stepping back for a second, that's really what this goes to, is the process. You know, the criminal justice process stops if people refuse to come into the grand jury or or serve as a jury
or whatever it might be. Um, you can't get to the truth. So this, well, it is a mysteryan I think these are important cases because it really does go through the process itself. YEA, does this verdict though, inform other cases from a legal viewer? Is that not a factor? Um? It doesn't affect the facts of other cases, but it certainly doesn't impact those defends and those defense lawyers to whether or not they want to take this to trial. And here you saw a jury really make short shrift
of Mr Bannon's case. Now Mr Navarro's case is slightly different, but not too much. Um. And there are other cases that could be teed up as well. So you know, play this up for a second. If there was an acquittal, you know, could do her natie and that would certainly affect the defense is going for they might be emboldened. It's the exact opposite here. Now they're well, do I really want to get a guilty play and look at jail time? Wow? Uh sentencing I mentioned October twenty one.
What will the timing of an appeal look like? Um? You know Mr Bannon's in no hurry to get this stunt. Longer he can stay out, the better for him, as as with any defense, So you know they'll be post trial motions um. And then they'll be an appeal to the appellate courts and then maybe an appeal past that. So you know, as I say, it depends if the judge is going to sentence Mr Bannon to prison at the sending and if he's going to stay that decision
pending appeal. That's really what it comes down to. Fascinating insights from a voice of experience. As I mentioned, Jeffrey Kramer, former federal prosecutor, managing director of guide Post Solutions with us to get things rolling here on the fastest hour in politics. Steve bann and found guilty and as we mentioned, it took all of three hours. I want to assemble the panel, Uh just quickly here for a quick round
with Rick Davis and Jeanie Tanzano. Rick, you you, I'm assuming expected a guilty verdict here, but what happens in sentencing time? Do you actually see Steve Bannon in handcuffs going into jail? You know, if you exhaust all his appeals and he's still got a conviction, I can see that they put him behind bars for maybe just a short while. Because I think that it is part of the president I mean, I don't think they want people thumbing their nose at this kind of you know, process,
especially the judicial aspect of it. And uh and you know lasting I think these judges want to do even trump a pointed judges like this one. They don't want to undermine congressional authority. And if you if you can't have any veracity behind your subpoenas, then you know, what's the point of an investigation. He's going to raise a lot of money on this one, genie, right, even from jail, this could be a lucrative experience for Steve Bannon. It is.
We understand he was smiling as the very it was read. He came out with all his shirt sound and stood outside and spoke. And you know, I am still stuck on this took only three hours, including the lunch. But the reality is the prosecutor used the analogy of a parking ticket, and that's an apt one. You get a ticket, you either pay repeal. You don't have the option of just saying, oh, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to comply. That's not how our system works.
And the judge and of course the jury here, let Steve Bannon know that you know, misdemeanor from hell bulletproof appeals aside. This is the reality of our system, and it reinforces the Bannon brand. Rick, Yeah, I mean rebel brand. Um. You know. It reinforces that brand up until the time he actually has to spend the night in prison. Okay, that's a little different. Yeah, And in that way, the
brand actually starts looking like uh tarnish on it. Rick and Genie, stay with us as we walk through the hour with our panel and looking back on the January six Committee hearing last evening. As Liz Cheney says, the dam has begun to break. We heard out take from former President Trump, and we learned about more scary moments that involved the Secret Service in Mike Pence, but didn't change anything in the bigger case. The best panel in the business. Next will check traffic and markets for you
on the way too on Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew and this is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The January six Committee weighs in on the Bannon verdicts a victory for rule of law, reads the statement of course on the heels of the prime time hearing last night, which will
not be the last. It turns out. Congresswoman Liz Cheney says the flow of information is too heavy to stop this now here she is from last night, doors have opened, new subpoenas have been issued, and the damn has begun to break. The dam has begun to break. One of
the takeaway lines from that hearing last night. As we reassembled the panel, Rick Davis, Jeannie Chanzano, Bloombergy Politics contributors for the for what should have been originally planned to be the finale Genie, there was not a lot of new. We we did get some new stories. The outtakes from former President Trump were actually fascinating to watch as he recorded the videos on the sixth and the seventh of January.
There was a heartbreaking account of the Secret Service agents sending messages home to family thinking they wouldn't get out alive. But was anything added to the legal case the end of season one the finale, and season two is coming in September, that's what we keep hearing. So yeah, so um, you know, and I agreed, there wasn't a lot new, but that what they did was they gave us a lot of details. Like we all watched as this unfolded, but of course we didn't know what was going on
behind the scenes. And as you mentioned, there was the audio of Mike Pence is secure a d detail calling home, feeling like they were saying their final goodbyes. There was the really chilling video of Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell down there trying to get Congress back so they could
finish the people's business. And you know, for me, I think one of the most chilling aspects was the President's final words saying, you know, after all of that, the deaths, the destruction, the attack, his focus was Mike Pennce, let me down. So I think, you know, not a lot new not sure if they got there legally in terms of the President's culpability, but what a damning sketch it really was, and they I thought, they presented it once
again well last night. So eight hearings in the can here, Rick forget doing more and we are apparently going into overtime. But what about the time that's already been spent. This has been a lot of hearings for people to be watching. It's a lot of hours they were they run what two to three hours each? Uh? Was this produced. Well, was that was that an effective way to to kind of leave people hanging to Ginnie's point for the next season. Yeah.
I watched most of the hearings when they were you know, live broadcast, and I was fascinated by it. I'm a junkie, total nerd for this stuff. And and so it was a mix of UH surprises, things I didn't know, so I learned things. The format was fascinating to me as a Republican. All the testimony came from Republicans. This was not a you know, situation where you had a bunch of Democrats picking on Republicans, which we've seen a lot in in previous UH investigations and so or vice versa.
And and so I think there's their structure and in the approach they took was very solid. And I must say, you know, the only thing missing I think was I kind of was expecting the last night a smoking gun. I stayed in there all the way two hours and forty minutes. Well, that means a lot of people were Yeah, and I see that a problem. The one thing I was looking for was that, like, did Donald Trump talk to somebody in the crowd, you know, at the time
they were going into the capital. And and I think, you know, it was clear, like what Adam Kinziger said, he didn't he didn't fail to act, he chose not to. What I was looking for was that third thing, which is he actually participated in it, and and and not by leaving out the things he would normally do, call the Department of Defense, called the Homeland Security. Um. You know they left it up the vice president to do that. Um. Uh,
he's the one who took charge, and rightly so. But but I was looking for, like culpability, did he actually participate? If if the Secret Service had let him go to the Hill and and actually be a part of that very different story, I think we'd be talking about a
totally different story. Um. And maybe thank God for the Supreme Court or for the Secret Service, because I kept us from actually having a constitutional crisis where the president was trying to overturn an election himself, right, not just by you know, hoping the mob did it for him.
I mentioned the the outtakes, if I can use that that term, the raw footage, behind the scenes footage of the former president not only recording the Rose Garden video message in which she told supporters you know, leave the Capitol, but that he loved them and they were special. Remember there was also an address to the nation on January seven. On the following day to try to follow follow up
on all of this stuff. As he spoke from the White House from behind the presidential podium, or were brought into the room, and you can hear Ivanka Trump off camera talking with the President as he bumps into as you can hear him stumbling over some copy. But then he hits a very important line that he refuses to say in the message. Let's listen. The demonstrators who infiltrated the capital have defied the seat of dest just defiled, right, so I can't see it very well. Okay, I'll do this.
I'm gonna do this. Let's go. But this election is now over. Congress has certified the results. I don't want to say the elections over. I just want to say Congress has certified the results without siding the elections. Sound okay, okay, Jeannie doesn't that kind of say at all. He wouldn't mention that the election was over on the day after the capital burned, That's right. And as late as last week we know he is still calling state officials to
overturn their certified results for the election. And you know that's right. Rick is right. The president. They may not have been able to show that he commanded these far right wing militia groups, but I have to say, listening to how those tweets that he was sending out the one at you know, to twenty four about Vice President of Pence, about how they incited that mob, I think there is a possibility that we do see the d o J Act, at least as far as obstruction of
Congress and obstruction of ownership official proceeding. I mean, this is two thirty years of history. No president or public official has ever done something like this to stay in power, and Donald Trump did it. And so I do think they methodically laid out that, if nothing else, this man is not fit to serve. As we mentioned, they're not done. Rick and Jennie will stay with us here. We're gonna add Billy House to the mix coming up here as we go into extra innings on the January six Committee.
He's next on the fastest hour in politics. This he is Bloomberg. It's unknown when the next hearing will be the January six Committee, other than sometime in September. So what we learned last night, by the way, is after Liz Cheney's primary in Wyoming. And there are a lot of questions about what this does to the timeline. Remember there's gonna be a final report. Well that's delayed now
they're saying there'll be an interim report. And if this rolls passed as we have been hearing the last twenty four hours, this rolls past the mid terms. This committee could be shut down if Republicans take control of the House. So where are we going. That's why we wanted to talk to Billy House Bloomberg, Congress reporter, who has been all over these hearings and back with us on sound On. It's great to have you, Billy. What's your thought on this?
Is this committee about to crash into the mid term elections? I think it very well do so, or at least its final report will come right before the elections. Uh. But in terms of crashing at the end of the year, Hey, there's no there's no there's no reason to believe Republicans won't keep it alive and then show us some of the stuff we aren't seeing. Well, gosh, tell me more, because I thought the whole idea was that, you know, Kevin McCarthy would would would turn around, shut down the
committee and start investigating the investigators as we hear. And that's all I mean. I mean that the Republicans have several ideas bannering amongst themselves about whether they should take over this committee, look at its documents and present its own version of all these videos and depositions, or have another committee investigate these investigators about what they left out or what their motives might have been allegedly. So there's
still that's still very early in the plotting. Of course, we obviously have a lot to learn. Still, Billy House, we thank you as ever. Bloomberg, congretional reporter with us
here on Bloomberg Sound On. Uh, you know, some of the most incredible parts of this hearing last evening, if you're interested in, you know, for the sake of history, if as Rick was saying, you know you're interested in this on a personal standpoint, was the behind the scenes stuff, the images behind the scenes, uh, inside the room in Congress were the leadership was hiding behind the scenes as
we heard from the President recording these video messages. And you know who spent a lot of Time Behind the Scenes is documentary, and Alex Holder and Bloomberg had an exclusive sit down with him that we want to listen to. Leanne Garin's and Tom mackenzie spoke with Holder about his experience having conducted the very last television interview that Donald
Trump gave in the White House. This was long after the election, and his documentary on the Trump White House, the build up, the storming of the Capitol, and so forth, is why the committee subpoenaed uh over a hundred hours
of his raw footage. We had an opportunity to get a sense of what it was like to be in the room with the how the president was conducting himself, and what Polder actually thought that Donald Trump really believed the inside what's listening, Trump actually believed came to believe the lie that he had started back in which was that if there was a chance he wouldn't win, delegitimizing the vote was a technique that he was playing, and I think back in twenty sixteen he knew it was,
you know, a lie. He would probably argue that it was more a joke, but the idea of of making people think that the election and the results didn't didn't matter, didn't count, was something that he'd been playing with for for years earlier. When it came to sort of reality that he clearly lost the election, he then started to
really push this this point. And when I interviewed him a month after the election, so it was the last interview that Trump ever gave in the White House was on the fourth or fifth of December in the White House, and he's still a president of the United States. And this is after his Attorney general, after you know, everybody really around him except some of the loonys were We're saying that there's absolutely no evidence to support his positions.
And then they had lost all of their court cases, including cases by Republican judges that he had in fact appointed, had all dismissed all of these lawsuits about the election, and it was quite clear that that President Biden by the time President led Biden had won. And so he and he still maintained this position where he was not only just saying how Biden didn't get eighty million votes, he was coming up with remedies essentially to his situation.
I what needs to happen to ensure he in fact wins, and he starts going on about Georgia and how the election officials there were cowards and stupid. These were Republican officials to not open up the that the balance, to check signatures, and it was coming up with all sorts of conspiratorial ideas. And then starts denigrating the judicial system. And I think, yeah, Trump has this ability to passionate.
And he does, and he there was no doubt in my mind that he absolutely believed in what he was saying, which is there obviously in no way of defense, and and and and the fact is actually terrifying that there's no way of being able to rationalize with him. And Bill bar said in his testimony that Trump was a man that was detached from reality. This is the president of the United States with all the power and the apparatus that surrounds the president of the United States, which
I saw. I mean, the guy with the nuclear football was standing outside the room when I was interviewing the President of the United States, telling me what needs to happen is we need to find quote brave judges. I mean, this is America. This is not you know, a sort of a country where it is not governed by like the rule of law and democracy, right, I mean, George Washington's painting is looking down at at Trump whilst I'm interviewing him, and he's coming out with is anti democratic ideas.
It was absolutely remarkable and horrifying. But he when you tell SENTI five million people that and it's coming from the incumbent president and the guy they voted for, that their vote didn't count. What what does anyone expect is going to happen next? I mean, it's going to be absolute fiasco. And I'm incredibly dangerous, fascinating peak behind the curtain there from Alex Holder, the documentarian, and I'm awfully curious to see this whole thing when it finally rolls out.
Gave Donald Trump his last interview in the White House, and now speaking today with Bloomberg TV and Radio, will reassemble the panel next their take on what comes next on the fastest hour in Politics. Well, I've Rick and Jeannie on the way. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. So much talk about the January six
Committee and so many what ifs. What if Kevin McCarthy had actually played along with this and provided other representatives after Nancy Pelosi, you know, refused to have the Jim Jordan's of the world involved. What if they actually had subpoena power. What if Republicans could have brought witnesses? What would that have been? Like? Donald Trump thinks it might
have been smarter. Right. We heard from him in a in a statement saying as much that Kevin McCarthy should not have made the decision he did to simply turn away from the committee. Call it unlawful, unconstitutional, but interesting. In the prime time hearing last evening, Liz Cheney towards the end, in her closing remarks, what if theory? Listen for those of you who seemed to think the evidence would be different if Republican leader McCarthy had not withdrawn
his nominees from this committee. Let me ask you this, Do you really think Bill Barr is such a delicate flower that he would will to under cross examination Pat Sippoloni, Eric Hirshman, Jeff Rosen, Richard Donohue. Of course they aren't. None of our witnesses are. Let's reassemble the panel. Rick Davis, Jennie Chanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors. Uh is Giana something here? Rick the idea that this is somehow illegitimate because Kevin McCarthy chose not to take part, Would it have changed
the outcome? I don't think so. I think kind of side with Liz Cheney on this. The testimony that we heard from people who are intimately involved with Donald Trump and his administration and out made the point the all Republicans who were all employees or colleagues I guess of the president and not not to mention family members. So who would Republicans have called. Well, you can only think that they would want to put Democrats on the diets and and ask them questions. But I don't know who
who would have any insight into what spurred this. I mean, are they going to try and you know, pursue the Antifa kind of line that maybe they were, but like, there's just no evidence that they could find anybody to talk to. So I I think it would have been a bit of a trap for uh McCarthy because I'm not sure he would have had very many options, and then they'd have to sit there for all of these hearings on television. Genie with the delicate flower known as
Bill Barr. That's right, the only time he's been called a delicate flower. You know, one thing I think that Republicans on the committee could have done is they could have made the committee a lot less cohesive, a lot less organized in terms of their presentation. And you know, they could have you know, broken in asked questions, distracted,
made it less watchable TV, if you will. So I do think there's ways in which they could have got gotten them off track, and so quite frankly, I think, you know, history the American public were all served by the fact that that didn't happen. But you know, any time you hear Donald Trump say something like, you know,
Kevin McCarthy screwed up. He should have done this, you know, it's because he thinks it would have been in his interest to have them there, and distracting from what is has been an utterly, you know, devastating portrayal of him and so devastating. I sat there last night also watching him right on Truth social and you He was unhinged last night and today and Truth Social in terms of his attacks on everyone trying to deflect blame for this thing you signed up for Truth Socialist out what that
means Joe Matthew I can get it without siding. Hey, listen, I do my duty. I'd like to I'd like to share with you in news. I don't think Rick is going near it, but I we haven't had that conversation. Does she have her own Netflix account? Let's really get into this. I do Rick Davis many in the household. You know, we've talked so much about Mike Pence, and wasn't it something to hear again from you know, the Secret Service members who were just they clearly thought they
were closer to trouble than anyone realized. Not only was the mob five feet away, but they thought they were not going to be able to get out alive. And they were sending messages home to family. But here's Mike Pence speaking in South Carolina like a presidential candidate and in expressing the pride that he has in being Donald Trump's vice president. Listen to this, and I must tell you, South Carolina couldn't be more grateful to have had the privilege to be vice president in the most pro life
administration in American history. The Trump pens administration, every single day stood for the sanctity of human life. I saw it firsthand every day. That was Wednesday night the Florist Baptist Temple Florence, South Carolina. Bit you've been there, Rick, what's Mike Pence up to? Is this actually going to be a showdown potentially between Mike Pence and Donald Trump? Or is he trying to move on from what happened? Well, I think he's jerry picking out of the Trump administration
those things that he wants to um take credit for. Um. He's a very righteous Republican. He brought that sort of Christian conservatism into the White House and and and that was his portfolio, and so gave Donald Trump the evangelical vote. And it shouldn't surprise anybody that he wants to keep that right. He they were able to stack the courts with conservative judges. He's going to talk about that as he goes along. But but these were the highlights for him.
He will probably not talk about the low lights. He'll avoid that conversation. He won't take on Trump because the people in that room are probably pro Trump, but he wants to share that pro Tump Trump vote regardless of how Trump treated him. Does he have a base? I mean, how how would you advise the formation of a campaign like that. I think he's actually trying to go out there and find that base. And I see and I think he believes his base is rooted in the evangelical community,
and so go there first. Right. If I were you helping orchestrate his rollout, which is very soft right now, I'd have him going to churches all over America. That's where it's safe for him and he doesn't have to get very political because he can talk about these kind of issues related to faith and and that's where he's comfortable. And it's a good transition away from being Donald Trump's lap boy. I mean, he's getting a little glow now because not being you know, Trump's friend is actually a
positive even in our party right now. And so the question is can he actually build a base out of that? And I think there's a lot of people scratching your head one or if that's possible. It's gonna be speaking at the Heritage Foundation on Monday, Genie, the day before Donald Trump speaks at this uh sort of maga summit that they've put together his big return to Washington. Uh.
That's strategic, right. This is not by accident, it's not they're fighting it out today in Arizona with these dueling events for their respective candidates that they've endorsed out there. They're coming to d C next week. And you know, I think, you know, when I listened to Pence, I think he reflects what I hear at least from many Republicans and even some independence and moderates, which is that there are a lot of Americans who like many of
the policies that Donald Trump pursued. We heard some of that last night from Matthew Pottinger on the national security side. They like the policies. What they don't like is the behavior, the chaos and all that came with it. And so I think some of what Mike Pence is doing is he's trying to say we scored some big victories, and for Pence, they did. The Dobb's decision alone was a tremendous victory. For saying that I am Trump without the drama.
He's saying, I am Trump without the drama. I offer you everything you liked and none of the things you didn't, and you know, without and can you build a base to Rick's point, I don't know, but but you know that is a that could be something to build on and I think we'll hear that from a lot of potential Republican twenty four candidates. Want to ask you both about Lee Zelden because I'm kind of shocked how little
attention this is getting. A member of Congress, the Republican nominee for governor of New York attacked on stage uh at knife point and somehow survived this thanks to I guess his quick move in quick thinking of some other people. Listen to Representative Zeldin after it happened, simply grabbing his wrist until all of these great man who got here, A lot of people jumped on this guy in Pinnondad. I could do anything. We dis on the weapon had
on his stuffled. Yeah, it's a guy looked like WOLVERINEI is like, you know, brass knuckles with knives on them here. Uh taken into custody and released. But which is its own story here? But you know, Rick, we've been talking about the January six riot for the better part of the hour here. Adam Kinzinger has said the violence is not over. How how dangerous is it to run for office in this country right now? Yeah, I think the amount of political violence is understated in the news media.
One of the sessions of the January six Committee had
members of the Georgia Election Commission. They're talking about how much violence they were put under, not necessarily physical, but you know, um emotional and online, and you know, the kind of attacks that they were worried about, the kind of threats that we're given, the kind of threats that we're given to people like Adam Kinzinger who are on the committee, And and I think this is something that we've got to spend some time on as a country
to understand that this is unacceptable and and and and I think you know, anybody who crosses that line like they did today with Lise Alden ought to be punished to the full extent of the law and made an example. Because only through these examples are we going to be able to try and get containment on this. Because right now, I would say that every every politician I talked to is worried about having the lese Elden event at at
their next about campaign event. You know, we talked a lot about increased security for members of Congress following the January six attacks. Genius, it's time to have a bigger conversation about that. It is I think about security, our Supreme Court justices, are members of Congress, are candidates, UM. And I also think we have to talk about the laws I live in New York, the bail reform laws, which which Lee Zelden, I think, to his credit, has
talked about in the aftermath of this. They are incredibly problematic, and so I think you you're hearing Democrats, UM, some in the Purple States trying to push for more investment in police and policing at this point because they recognize the fact that these are real issues. I think a combination of that and also in terms of social media regulation, which we're also we keep hearing about, but we haven't
seen movement on. So security, policing, and social media, all of those things have to be addressed because you cannot have the Republican candidate for New York State be attacked like this and candidates across the country vulnerable as they are. Genie. Thank you, Rick Davis. Great to have you back tonite our signature panel on Sound on Conversation. I look forward to you every day just like you do. Hey, the President's schedule just came out for the weekend shocker, nothing scheduled.
The fastest hour in politics resumes on Monday. I'll meet you back here live from Washington. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg