Welcome to the AT Parenting Survival Podcast, where you get help and guidance through the chaos of parenting a child with anxiety or OCD. This show is for educational purposes and is not intended to replace the guidance of a qualified professional. Here's your host, child therapist, Natasha Daniels. Hello there and welcome to another episode of the AT Parenting Survival Podcast. Today I want to talk to you and help support you in...
You helping and supporting your child with anxiety attacks and panic attacks. There's a difference between them, and we'll talk about that. But how do you help navigate them through it? It is one of, I think, the most overwhelming. things that we can experience when we're raising kids with anxiety or OCD, because it is a tornado and they're spiraling out of control and they're looking at you to help them. And in that moment,
it can feel really hopeless. And I know this both as a therapist and as a mom and as a person who has had both panic and anxiety attacks. And so gosh, I know it from every freaking angle and I wish I didn't. But the more I struggle, the better I am able to help you. They should put that on my tombstone. The more she struggled, the better she was able to help us. But it's actually pretty true. So I started having anxiety.
and panic attacks, mainly panic attacks when I was 19. I'll go into that in this episode. And it's highly genetic. We'll talk a little bit about that as well. And so it's not surprising that all three of my kids have had. panic attacks or anxiety attacks. And so I've been on the receiving end and I've been on the experiencing end and I've been on the therapy end. I've had people in my office have anxiety and panic attacks in front of me.
And I've treated and helped people get through anxiety and panic attacks. And I've worked with their families on how to help their kids, teens and young adults. So a lot to cover today to support you. I do feel like... one of the biggest struggles with it is how we manage ourselves and our mindset and how we show up during that tornado. So we're going to focus on that. And that is why I do want to mention as well that my AT Parenting community is open.
And you can check it out at natashadaniels.com slash AT, Parenting Community. And a lot of what we do in that community is support you so you can support your kids. There are so many aspects that we cannot control in our child's anxiety or OCD journey. But the one thing that we actually do have full control over where we are able to work on it.
is how we show up for their struggles. And that is something that I really help members in our community focus on. Besides all the other concrete things, we've got kids support groups, teen support groups. We've got a lot of things for the kids and teens. I give you the tools to actually literally help your kids in your home environment, learn exposure response prevention, learn the space program, all sorts of skills. But I think the reason why people stick around in the community...
Because you can soak all that up within a few months, but we have members who have been there for years. And I think why we have such a good retention rate and why we have members that have been there for years is they come for the skills, they come for like the... maybe the support group for their kids or teens, and they stay for the community. They stay because there's this grounding that happens with people that get it.
and support you. And we do a lot of classes on supporting you as you support your kids. A lot of work on our own mindset. How do we anchor ourselves? How do we lovingly detach? How do we... educate them and not get sucked into the anxiety and OCD loops. I only open the AT Parenting community a few times a year, and that's done on purpose because we're a tight-knit community.
And we do live Zoom classes each week, support group calls each month for the parents, kids and teens. I already said that. And we don't want new people coming in all the time. Then it kind of feels like... a city street you know like people are coming in and out you don't know who's here and who's not and so we keep it closed we open it a few times a year which is actually one of those times right now. This is Tuesday that I'm recording this and the doors will close on Thursday. And so...
If you are interested, look into it now because the doors will be closed on Thursday. We don't let people in after the doors close because we have so many new members at that point. that we have to go and nurture and invite them in, educate them. I'm doing new members Zoom calls on like, hey, welcome to our community. This is what it looks like.
I'm super busy the first month or two when we get new members because they are all wanting to ask me direct questions. And so they're all going into our forums, which is in our member website, and they can have direct contact with me.
I am inundated at least the first month with new members who are like, these are the symptoms. This is where I'm getting started. This is what I'm starting. Or these are the three therapists we're considering. What do you think? Like there's so much activity going on that we can't have. people trickling it after that. So check it out. I would love to get to know you. I would love to support you. I don't just have to be a voice on your podcast app. I could be a real person.
thousand plus members that we have can be real people to you as well. So join us at natashadaniels.com slash AT Parenting Community. It's a membership community. You join it. It is less than a copay and you will have... weekly live classes, monthly support group calls, and access to over $400 worth of, maybe $500 worth of courses that I sell in my AT Parenting community. AT Parenting Survival School. And so you get those as a member.
Check it out and I will get to know you there. I also want to thank NoCD for sponsoring this episode. NoCD offers affordable, effective, convenient therapy, and they're available in the US and outside of the US. Thank goodness, right? Because there's so many of us who need. clinically sound therapy, and we don't have access to that. And so for them to be global has been really a big game changer for a lot of the parents in my community and around the world.
You can actually just schedule a free 15 minute consultation to see if no CD is the right fit for you and your child. Just go to treatmyocd.com. That is treatmyocd.com. I'll leave a link in the show notes. Okay, so let's get into it with the anxiety and the panic attacks. I want to first give you a snapshot just briefly. We're going to get into much more advanced stuff on this topic, but I do want to start with...
How does an anxiety or panic attack show up? All right, let's just first talk about the difference. And it's, you know, physiologically, it feels the same. I have had both. I've had anxiety attacks. I've had panic attacks. And physiologically, how it shows up is the same. And we're going to talk about those symptoms, but an anxiety attack is triggered. And so when I have had to go one time, oh my gosh, it was a nightmare.
I was invited to go speak. I think I brought this story up a lot of times on the podcast. You might have heard it before. One time I was asked to speak for a school. It was a school training for counselors and it was the whole district. And so I don't know, they had like 200. school counselors there. And I was told I was just going to be doing a small training. I thought there'd be like 30 people there. And so I had a full blown anxiety attack before I had to go up.
because it's a long story, but it was a nightmare. And while I was presenting, I was having an anxiety attack. And so that was overwhelming. But I also, so that's like a triggering event, right? Something has triggered my anxiety and I have a full-blown anxiety attack. My kids have had anxiety attacks when...
one of their fears is triggered and they just can't control it. And they break out into a full anxiety attack. A panic attack is almost like a physiological hiccup, like a nervous system hiccup. a misfiring, a false alarm in the brain with no trigger. And so you don't know when they're going to happen and you can have them in your sleep. You can wake up from a complete...
sound sleep and have them. You can have them while you're just sitting there relaxing on your couch. You can have them at any time and there is no trigger. It's just a physiological false alarm. And that makes it even worse, in my opinion, because you don't know why you're having it. And so the fear of it being a medical emergency is more...
of the thing that consumes you with panic attacks versus anxiety attacks. Because you know when you're having an anxiety attack, more often than not, why you're having it. Sometimes you don't. But... it's not hard to piece it together. Like you're about to go to school and you're super anxious about taking a test or you're worried you're going to throw up at school because you have a fear of throw up and metaphobia.
You're getting closer and closer to school and then you have an anxiety attack. And you may not know, you might think, I don't know why I had it. I was totally fine. But once you piece it together, like. It was anticipatory anxiety. You were heading to a place that was triggering for you. And it was so overwhelming that your body couldn't handle it. And you had a full-blown anxiety attack. Panic attacks, you don't know where they came from.
because they didn't come from anywhere. And so sometimes therapists and parents can get stuck on this part and really spend a lot of time trying to figure out why you had a panic attack instead of realizing that panic attacks are... what I like to call a physiological false alarm, and they don't come from anywhere. And so it's a lot of wasted energy sometimes spending too much time trying to figure out where a panic attack happened because...
If it's a panic attack, the answer is it didn't come from anywhere. It came from your nervous system. And that's not fun. So let's talk about what they look like. Besides the antecedent, the actual physiological response looks the same. And so you might have racing heart or you might have chest pain. You might have dry mouth. You might be super shaky. You might be nauseous. You might be clammy.
You might be faint or dizzy. You might faint, literally. You might have diarrhea or conversely, you might have constipation. I've seen people break out in hives and get a red rash all over their body. And I've seen people get headaches. A lot of times headaches come after because you're having such a big adrenaline dump that your head hurts. I mean, it makes sense.
A lot of times they're so immobilizing because, oh, you know what? One thing that I didn't mention that's actually a really big one is shortness of breath. Now for me, when I've had... panic attacks. And when I've had an anxiety attack, I haven't had many anxiety attacks. When I was 19, I started having panic attacks when I was in college and I would just be walking to class, totally chill. And all of a sudden,
I couldn't breathe. And for me, the symptoms that show up for a panic attack are the same that show up for me with an anxiety attack. And I think that's really common that your child, and your child can have both of them. And it really doesn't matter, to be honest. There's an extra layer when it comes to anxiety attacks as far as targeting the triggering environment or activity or thing that started it all.
It tells you where to focus your work as a therapist and a parent. You know, if my child is afraid of bees, this is true and happening in my world, and it triggers an anxiety attack, that happened. It's an indication after we survive the anxiety attack that we have to work on the bees. You know, it kind of tells me where to work. With panic attacks, the only therapeutic work...
that a therapist or parent is doing, and we'll talk about what to do in the moment, that's really the focus of this episode, but is how to survive a panic attack, how to get through it and minimize the panic over the panic attack. Because really... It's a false alarm and it becomes a panic attack when you panic about the false alarm, which we inevitably do because it's really scary. So for me, it was, it is like...
racing heart, difficulty breathing, can't finish my sentence as I run out of breath, dry mouth, some shaky, nausea, and that's about it. That's the extent of it for me. For my daughter, who has anxiety attacks currently and anxiety about having anxiety attacks. We'll talk about that and how that shows up. For her, it is shaky, clammy.
faint to the point where she could pass out, and diarrhea. I'm sure she appreciates me saying that one. And those are the symptoms every single time. So more often than not, You have a menu of ways that your anxiety shows up and the way that these attacks show up, and they typically stay in those ranges. And that's helpful after the break when we talk about...
how to help your kids through these, you're going to see why that is helpful. And we'll talk about that when we get to that point. So they are immobilizing because... The physiological feelings, the somatic feelings that we're having, one, are real. They are a byproduct of your body thinking it's in an emergency. And so the things that are happening to your body...
all make sense. I mean, I do have a lot of YouTube videos explaining this to kids because when we demystify what is happening, like why this is happening, that does help. Because the biggest aspect of anxiety and panic attacks is the overwhelming feeling and fear of the physical things that are happening to you. That's what's really scary. If you're having an anxiety attack and you're still near the trigger.
Obviously, that's the bigger issue. But a lot of times we have anxiety attacks that are triggered by a thought or triggered by something. And then the anxiety is around the attack itself. And so understanding and teaching our kids why these things happen is really important. And I will link all my YouTube videos that I have on this topic to help your kids directly, like educate them about those things. But when you have...
cortisol and epinephrine and adrenaline, like pumping through your body, it's going to do things to you physically. It's going to raise your heart so that it can pump more blood so you can run faster. It's going to do a lot of different things. And that is where we're feeling the physical effects.
They're harmless. It's not a medical emergency, but it doesn't feel good when you're getting an adrenaline dump and you're getting the physical responses because you're not running. You're not escaping a serial killer. You're just sitting there maybe in your class, you know, or sitting there at home. And so you don't need all of that going on in your body. And so what becomes most immobilizing is the fear that you're having a medical emergency. And that happens...
It happens with both anxiety and panic attacks. I feel like with panic attacks, it's more so because you don't know, you can't make sense of why you're having this feeling. And so it really does feel like a medical emergency because you're just walking.
to class and all of a sudden your heart is racing or you have chest pain, which actually literally feels like a heart attack. These symptoms are not fake. They're not in your head. They're real. And so you're literally shaking. You start to get dizzy. you're having shortness of breath. I mean, you Google those symptoms, it will say, go to the ER, you're having a heart attack. So a lot of people with panic attacks in particular.
think they're having a heart attack. They think they're having a medical emergency. They wind up in the ER or we wind up taking them to the ER because We may not even be sure, is this a panic attack or are they actually having a medical emergency? Because it looks medical. When my daughter is having a panic attack, or really it's an anxiety attack for her. Because hers always has a trigger. She is pale. She is ghostly.
She can pass out. Things start to go dark for her. She will throw up. And that's really triggering for me, too. We're going to talk about that part, too, because the things that can happen to them that are medical. or they can pass out. They can break out in a rash. They can throw up. They can have uncontrollable diarrhea. These things can be really overwhelming and embarrassing and scary as well.
That's why they're so immobilizing. Mainly it's because of the physical, physiological aspect that's happening. The other problem is the secondary issue with anxiety and panic attacks, which is the panic about panic. The core fear around people who have panic disorder is that I'm going to lose control in front of other people or I'm going to be trapped.
A lot of people with panic attacks or panic disorder, they can develop secondary issues like agoraphobia, the fear of really leaving their home base. And so they don't want to leave their home. because they don't want to be in public and possibly have a panic attack. And the same thing can happen with anxiety attacks, but it might be more situational related to, I don't want to see a bee because what if I have an anxiety attack? For my daughter, it is...
I don't want to necessarily eat in front of my friends because she has emetophobia, the fear of throwing up. And she also has celiac. So there's like a medical... There's an objectively medical struggle that she does feel nauseous sometimes after she eats, depending on what she eats. And she has no tolerance for dairy and she loves dairy.
Part of it is rational. Like, yeah, you're going to eat and you may feel nauseous. And then anxiety and OCD take over and they say, oh my gosh, you're going to throw up in front of your friends. That's going to be so embarrassing. And so then the anxiety attack kicks in when she starts to feel nauseous, which can be due to the food objectively or due to her fear that she's going to get nauseous. It doesn't matter because it will happen either way. And then the fear of having an anxiety attack.
kicks in where then it's like, oh my gosh, I am going to embarrass myself in front of people. And so now I have to avoid parties. I have to avoid eating at lunch. I have to avoid all these things to prevent the anxiety attack, but that's specific.
right? Because there's a target, there's a trigger. And so for my son, it might be like, I don't want to go out in the backyard or I don't want to travel where there might be bees, which by the way, is everywhere. So that makes it hard, but it's very specific. With panic attacks, there is no identified trigger. And so they want to be home.
They don't want to be at the movie theater. They don't want to be at a restaurant. They don't want to be at school because what if I have a panic attack? How am I going to handle that? And a lot of times the core fear is... the fear of losing control in front of other people and not knowing what to do so that's a big one and then another big one with both anxiety and panic attacks is a secondary struggle with separation anxiety
And a lot of times these kids don't have separation anxiety, don't have a history of separation anxiety until the onset of anxiety or panic attacks. And then it's very, very easy to develop a... Kind of like a codependent relationship between you, your child, and the anxiety and panic attacks. Because it's super common. for a child, teen, or young adult to make the association of, I feel better when my mom is with me when I'm having an anxiety or panic attack. If she's with me, I can handle it.
And sometimes it even goes to the point where they will not have an anxiety or panic attack if you are with them. So you become this panacea.
to eradicate their anxiety or panic attacks. I'm so used to saying anxiety or OCD, their anxiety or panic attacks. And then they develop this apprehension of they need to be with you. And I've worked with families where... older kids, like young adults in their twenties, couldn't go on a date, couldn't go to the movies with their friends, couldn't go to work without the parent literally sitting in the parking lot so that the child
the young adult child can function in the world because they know that their panacea, their kryptonite to anxiety or panic attacks is in the parking lot. And so they feel fine. That's an acute level of separation anxiety. And I do see that happening suddenly with people who don't have a history of separation anxiety. So that's something to watch out for as well, because how we help.
Our kids with their anxiety or panic attacks will either inadvertently increase the likelihood that your child develops that secondary separation anxiety or empowers them to take it on the road and have the skills independent of you. at any time if they struggle. And if you don't know what to do in order to prevent that, you're going to easily fall into that vicious cycle of...
developing that secondary issue of separation anxiety. And that is why I want to help you today because it's a slippery slope and it's not intuitive. So after the break, we're going to talk about what to do. Where do you start with your child? And what are some things that you can do to navigate them through it? Stay tuned. We'll be right back. It's time we put help directly in our kids' hands. Introducing Crushing OCD Course.
for kids and teens. It was way more helpful than all the other therapy we've ever done because we didn't really know what to do. So we weren't really doing it before. So the course helped to figure out what the exposures are and how to do them. We're not in therapy and fine. it really hard um to find an erp trained therapist here um so we're currently with like the public health service but again they don't seem to be trained in erp it's filled that gap that we don't have that was
That's what we need it. This was really well-timed for us to use between therapists and to help us get off to a good start with this new practice. It was easy to use. I was able to do it from my phone or also on the computer. There's different ages, you know, so there were younger kids, there were teenagers. And so that was really nice, too, to have.
of a variety of ages where it wasn't just geared towards younger kids or older kids. It was a nice variety. It's helpful for our kids to hear it from this like third party as opposed to just us saying it. I really liked the offer. and defense method. I love working on poking at OCD while sleeping. It makes it A little bit easier to do and it's kind of fun. I'm planning on using it to work on my fear of like holding your touching batteries and stuff like that.
So it was really helpful and I think a lot of other kids would like it. I thought that I was like the only one who had worrying about the weather and stuff. And then there was somebody else on there who worried about the same thing, which was really helpful. Seems less scary to work on stuff now that I've watched this class and I'm more interested to work on it.
I like trying to do more exposure still and going to, before I wasn't, I just didn't want to do them. I've worked on some of my bigger compulsions and been successful. I realised it was helpful to do the exposures. Before, it was really, really hard. It's still hard, but... It's helpful to know that I need to do them. There would be a lot of battles about it, so it is definitely less loggerheads. Really, really good course and super helpful.
I certainly would recommend this. It's really easy to follow. It's nice bite-sized videos. I really like the worksheets that go along with it and I think it's really helpful. To learn more about this course and register your child or teen, Welcome back. So in the first half, we talked about what a panic attack and what an anxiety attack look like, how they physiologically...
physiologically show up, why they're immobilizing, some of the secondary comorbid conditions that show up because of it. And I want to talk to you about what we do. Because nine times out of 10, With anxiety and panic attacks, they develop a codependent relationship with somebody. And honestly, in all my... two decades of practicing therapy and being a child therapist, it is 99.9% of the time the mom. There is a 0.1%, so there's other possibilities.
A lot of times it's the mom. Sometimes it could be the roommate if you're older or your partner. But in the population that I work with, which are families who are raising kids, teens, and young adults, it's the mom. I have seen the dad. maybe once or twice in my two decades of practice. So it doesn't mean that it can't happen, but a lot of times it's the mom. And there is this...
duo relationship. It doesn't stay in the box. It impacts the relationship because they'll go to you. They'll text you. They'll find you. They'll wake you up at night. They will... reach out to you at school because you are their panacea. You are the answer to get rid of the attack. And that's a lot of pressure, right? So what do you do with that?
The first thing is going to sound obvious, but I think sometimes we don't do these things systematically in the way that they should be done. And the first thing is... really educate your child. And I'm going to say child, but I mean teen or young adult as well. So don't think I'm not talking to you, you out there with a teen or young adult, but you want to educate them on how... Anxiety or panic attack shows up. Now, when my oldest, who's 20 now, started having panic attacks, they're...
There is a genetic predisposition to panic attacks. With my older daughter, I genetically had panic disorder, so they would come out of the blue. And ironically, I mean, not ironically, but sadly, her... father also had panic attacks. And so, and he is, I've been married twice. So not to confuse you in my life, but I was married and I had, I had my older daughter and then my husband that passed away, who I was with for 12 years.
He is the father of my other two. So too much about Natasha, but now you know, because I don't want you to think the other one had panic disorder because he did not. He did not have anxiety in the way that the whole rest of the family did, but it runs in his family too. So my kids were... doomed. So there is a genetic predisposition to those types of things. With her in particular, it was panic disorder. I'm not seeing panic attacks with my two little ones, anxiety.
is on both sides of the family and their anxiety attacks are based on their anxiety and OCD when they're just overwhelmed and, and can't handle it. But hers were very much like mine out of the blue for no reason. Why is this happening? And so. I said to her, oh, they're panic attacks. And she said,
What do you know? She's like, no, mom, I'm having a medical problem and you're not helping. And like, I need to go to the doctor. And I would say, are you having a racing heart? Are you having chest pain, dry mouth, shake? I would go through the list. Yeah, I Googled it and I think I have a heart problem or whatever.
And so it took me a while to show her, you know, that she was having panic attacks. Now side note with her is that she was eventually diagnosed with POTS. And so it is important to... to maybe rule out medical, not maybe, but it can't hurt to rule out medical in any of the things that we talk about on this podcast, because she wasn't diagnosed with POTS until, so she started having panic attacks.
when she was in eighth grade, eighth, ninth grade, I think it started in eighth grade. And she wasn't diagnosed with POTS until ninth grade. She actually passed out twice. And then we went to a cardiologist. I guess she was right. It was her heart. But the weird thing is, then she was put on all this medication for POTS. And then we went to a different doctor.
in her senior year. And he was like, no, she doesn't have POTS, which is so confusing when doctors do that. I do believe she still has POTS, but she's not on any medication, but she needs to drink a lot. And her heartbeat is... unusually high um and when she transitions from like sitting to standing all that kind of stuff so it you know rule out pots that's something i didn't even put in my notes but
But she still needed to learn how to handle the panic attacks that she was having. Because even though... And I'm not a doctor, and so I'm not going to go into POTS, but it's not uncommon for people with POTS to have panic attacks. It's interesting. research that that's actually really interesting my other two kids who have anxiety attacks there's no pots there's i mean they go to a cardiologist for a different reason but um and that's just more of a
precautionary thing due to what we found in my husband that passed away. But you can have anxiety attacks and panic attacks and not have POTS. I had panic attacks. I do not have POTS. So it's not that everyone who has panic attacks has POTS, but it is probably a really good thing for me to educate you on. But I had to educate her on the different feelings that she was having because she would have these feelings that were probably, honestly...
maybe instigated by POTS. And then the panic would set in because she does have an anxiety issue and is on medication. And so... would get really overwhelmed and would spin and think she's having a medical emergency. Ironically, medication really helped with the panic attacks. Medication helped me when I was 19 get through the panic attacks. So even though it was, POTS was in... In the picture, really an SSRI did the trick for her.
Talk to your child and ask them, what are the feelings? And don't do this while they're in the middle of attack. I think that's pretty obvious, but I just want to say it just in case. We're not doing any of this while they're in the middle of an anxiety or a panic attack. This is all work beforehand. We're going to talk about what you're going to do in the middle of it, but there's a lot of work to do before that. And so if they're willing to talk about it when they're in a nice calm.
space, say, let's just talk about what are the physical things that happened to you and get them to list it. Like I listed it to you, right? Like I have dry mouth. I have a racing heart. My biggest struggle is my inability to breathe. That was my number one. A lot of times people have like a number one symptom that they get stuck on. For my daughter, it's nausea, my younger daughter.
For my older daughter, I think it was chest pain. Luckily, she's 20. She has not had a panic attack in years. Thank God. Knock on wood. So there is hope. I have not had a panic attack. God forbid. I don't want to like jinx myself since I was 20. And so like, I just had a really rough year with panic attacks. And then I, I worked through it and I'm not on medication, but I just was like, I'm I just faced it head on. And I was just like, well, we'll talk about that later. But I was just like.
I'm not going to have this happen to me. I got really angry at the panic. And then I was like, you can't make me panic anymore. It was just really weird. And it's like not something you could teach someone. It was like just something that I decided in my head. I was like, you can make me feel shaky. You can make me feel nauseous.
You can make me not breathe, but I'm not going to panic about it. And I had some coping mechanisms. We're going to talk about that, that were kind of my go-to thing that really helped me. And so it took away the panic out of the attack. So the first thing is educating them on these are all the common symptoms. And you might have to pull up videos. I will link videos for you. You might have to show them things online that show them that these are the symptoms of a panic attack because...
A lot of times they'll think it's a medical emergency. So this kind of really helps develop some validity of like, these things do happen. The next thing is... Have them write a note to themselves or better yet, a video if they're willing. And it's a message. It's a personal message to themselves when they are in the middle of an attack.
It might be like, hey, Natasha, right? Have them talk to themselves. I know that you are really panicking right now. I know what that feels like. And I also want you to know that you've had these before. and that it's not a medical emergency. And I know that they're rough, but here are the things that help you. And just remember that they always end and they never last forever.
And I know that you can get through this and help us. Whatever language they want to use. I'm just giving you an example. What that does is one, it's their past selves talking to their future selves, which I always love. I think it's really helpful. They're normalizing it. They're a calm anchor for themselves. They can have this on their phone. They can have this wherever they go, depending on their age, so that they don't...
They don't need anybody else. They have a tool that's right there on their phone. And they can prompt themselves to use their coping mechanisms because when you are panicking... It all goes out the window. Like you can't remember anything. You're in a total panic, a total spiral. And so having this personal message remind you that one, you're going to be okay. They always end because they always do.
And you'll be able to get through it and use your coping mechanisms. That's really helpful. One thing that you might want to do if, I guess it's a bit tricky, but panic attacks normally only last. you know, between 15 to 45 minutes. There are people that I've met that have them back to back to back episodically, or they feel like they're in a panic mode.
all night long. That is not as common. Most of the time when people have panic attacks, they're like an isolated incident and they can last 20 to 45 minutes. On average, it can vary for people. It's not scientific that it's like, this is going to end at 45 minutes. But I know for me, it did help my daughter to be like, these always end and they don't last that long. It might be a little bit risky to give them a timeframe.
Like yours always end at 32 minutes because then they're just going to be watching the clock. And the biggest struggle with helping people with panic attacks or anxiety attacks is that they'll do the coping mechanisms, but then they'll expect. they will like check that is their panic going down. And then they'll be like, nope, it's not. I still feel nauseous or I still feel shaky. And so then it revs them up again. And so part of...
What we're going to talk about when we talk about their coping mechanisms is explaining to them that once that bell has been rung, once the bell has been rung and the false alarm is blaring in your body's physiological state, It's done. It has to ride through. It's a wave that has to be ridden. Does that make sense? And so that's why I explained to my kids and the kids that I've worked with in my practice is once the false alarm is rung, you just have to ride it out.
You can't undo a panic attack. You can't undo an anxiety attack. Like once all those chemicals have been released and my brain was like, we're having a big problem. It's going to take a while to bring it back in. And I kind of use an example of, you know, fire alarms. If you're at school and you have a fire alarm and somebody pulled the fire alarm and...
Everybody has to get out of their chair. They all have to go out into the fields. They all have to line up. Oh, the fire department has to come and pull up. They got to check the whole building and make sure there's not really a fire. Then the next bell rings and then everybody can go back in and go.
to their class, that takes a while, right? Even if within five minutes, the administration is like, this was a false alarm. There's no fire, right? They still have to go through all those steps to get everything going back to normal.
That's a great analogy because that's what goes on in your brain. Your brain hears the fire alarm and all the chemicals go rushing. You know, let's pump more blood. Let's get your legs moving. Let's do all these things to save you. And then it's like, wait, there's no emergency.
We got to rein in all these chemicals. We got to do all this stuff to bring you back to baseline. That's going to take a little while. That's where the panic sets in because you're like, I'm breathing. I'm doing my deep breathing. Why isn't it going away? I'm doing my coping skills. I'm grounding. Why isn't it going away? If they understand the analogy that...
A fire alarm just happened and it takes a lot, even when it's a false fire alarm, to get things back to normal. It's easier, relatively, to ride the wave. Because what we're trying to do is get them educated enough. to reduce the panic about the attack, right? And so the more they understand the science behind what is happening on some level, and my videos kind of touch on all this, so hopefully that will help them.
But the more they understand that, it doesn't mean they don't have an anxiety or panic attack, but it's easier for them to calm down because they're like, I know what this is. I'm having a false alarm. It doesn't feel good, but it's going to last a little while until all the chemicals are out of my body. And in the meantime, this is what I can do to take care of myself.
And so that's what the note or video can do. But then you want to have a plan. And so you need to have a plan before they make the video or write a note to themselves. And you don't necessarily want the video to be you. if you're thinking oh i'll make them a video that's quick that you know they can take me on the road i'm always asking myself how can i remove myself
from my child's coping mechanisms. And I know that can sound kind of harsh. You might be like, what? Why? It's not because I don't want to be their go-to person. I love my kids and I want to be their go-to person, but I also know that that's not good for them. I know that I want them to go to college or move out and have a productive life, whatever they want to do. I want them to be able to do that. And if I am a walking, talking, coping mechanism for them,
I'm going to be a barrier to their independence. And ultimately I don't want my child, my adult child strapped to my house because I am their walking, talking, coping mechanism. And we can do this. inadvertently and so from a very young age you know i'm always asking what part can i step back on and cheerlead and support them not leave them to like drown and struggle but to support them while they're doing it
And so that's why I want them to make the video. That's why I don't want it to be me because I think it's more powerful. So having a plan that they can... include in their video is really important. What will that look like? Now that's different for each person and it's very personal. So I don't feel like it's a one-stop shop for... These are the coping mechanisms for an anxiety or panic attack. It's very personal. What are they doing naturally to calm them down? That's where I start.
Coping mechanisms, they just didn't recognize that that's what they were. I had people who would put their head in a freezer or go outside to get fresh air. You know, some people liked the temperature change. That was grounding for them. And so start off with asking yourself, what do they naturally do? Is there anything they do that is actually productive? A lot of people just cry and...
panic and don't do anything. So there's nothing that you can pick from. But some people actually do try to do some things that they may not realize are like grounding techniques. And so... That's the first thing is what are they already doing that might be helpful that you can really optimize and highlight that that's a coping skill. And this is why you're doing that. And this is why it helps.
So I'm going to tell you some of the things that people use so that you can either talk to your child and say, these are some things that people do, or you can give them some suggestions of things that they can choose from or try. The caveat, and this is such a big caveat, and I do have a YouTube video on this, so I'll link it for you, is to explain to them that these, because what you're gonna hear from some kids is that's not gonna help.
That's not going to help. I tried that. It didn't help. And what I try to explain to people who are having anxiety or panic attacks is these are not meant to help you. Like the bell, that sounds horrible. Let me explain. The bell's been rung and you're waiting for things to go back to normal.
you are waiting for things to go back to normal. Now, if you're waiting outside because of the fire alarm at school, and then someone hits another fire alarm while you're waiting, what do you think is going to happen?
you're going to be waiting longer, right? Because now they're like, wait a minute, why did we get another alarm? Well, now we need to get the fire department back over here and check it out because that's suspicious. And the more false alarms you're having as you wait in that field,
the longer you're going to be out there and the longer you're not going to be able to go back and do what you were doing before. Same thing with an attack. And I'm saying attack because it's panic or anxiety. Same thing. The more you panic, the more you... worry about the length of time that you're panicking, the longer the panic. And so that becomes really anxiety producing because if you're like, I'm breathing and I'm doing my grounding and I'm not better.
and now I'm panicking because it's not working, then we have to shift the perspective. What is it meant to do? It's meant to help relax you as you're riding out the wave of the panic attack. That's what it is. It's not meant to get rid of the wobbly feelings that you're having. It's not meant to get rid of the skipping heart or erasing heart. It's meant to help you ride the wave so that you can get through it.
as you're waiting for it to end. Because once that bell is rung, it's rung. So that really helps when you preface it that way. Then you're not gonna get people who are gonna say, it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It's like, you're gonna have these.
whether you want to do the coping mechanisms or not. So it can be like horrific for you, or you can try to make it more manageable as you're going through it. Those are the choices. And so for some kids I've worked with, they will have a playlist on their phone. So these are more teenagers who have a phone. where they might have like a relaxing playlist, or I've actually had kids who had like screamo or really loud music. They pick music that they feel helps them when they're in an attack.
They have distractions on the go. So they might have like funny videos or clips, or they might just watch like TikTok or something. But for a lot of the people I've worked with, they will have things prepared on their phone. And so they can look at photos or they can look at something that distracts them. I never, you know, you very rarely hear me say that distraction is what is the go-to.
right? When we talk about anxiety or OCD, distraction isn't really a coping mechanism that's going to help long-term because you have to face your fears. You have to face your intrusive thoughts. You have to face those things in order to get through them. Anxiety and panic attacks are the exception, hands down, because I'm outside the field, right, waiting for the fire department to say that I can go back in, to use that metaphor again, and
I don't want to just sit there ruminating that there could be a fire in the building, right? What is that going to do? It's going to make me more panicky. And so while I'm sitting there out in the field, waiting to be called back in, waiting for this all to be undone.
I might as well hang out with my friends and play with them and do something to distract myself, to make the time go by faster. And so distraction is a go-to for anxiety attacks and panic attacks. So I definitely would focus on that. And that might be different for each person, but getting them to identify what helps them the most in those moments, what things are helpful in distracting them can be really good. Because the more you have a proactive plan of these are the things that you do.
when you are having an attack, the better. And so they might, I've had kids who have had audio books on their phone and they would go and listen to them because it took their mind off of it. So whatever it is for them. You don't really want activities that don't involve the brain. And so unless it works. So like typically just laying there and listening to music, unless they're really analyzing the lyrics and they're actively using their brain.
Passive activities like drawing, to me, I can still panic and draw. So the more engaged the brain, the harder it is to panic at the same time. Tell them that. What are activities that engage the brain? Because those can be some things. Sometimes it's physical because there's so much adrenaline pumping in the body, you're getting an adrenaline dump. And so there are some people that want to go running or they want to do jumping jacks or they want to do something physical.
to work through that adrenaline. Not a lot of people, but some people might find that to be helpful. Grounding is always a really helpful thing when we're talking about anxiety and panic attacks. And so grounding is like... getting back into your body. And so that has anything to do with the senses. So it might be a weighted blanket. It might be aromatherapy or essential oils. It might be...
kinetic sand or putty. It might be chewing on an orange or eating an apple or sucking on something. It might be listening to your music and, you know. getting a weighted blanket. But grounding is about the senses. It's about coming back into your body because when you're panicking, you are out of your body.
you're stuck in your head, if that makes sense. So anything you can do to bring you back into the space that you're in can be very helpful. And go through with your child. What are your favorite things? These are grounding techniques. What are your favorite ones? And you can list some things and have them be creative and come up with some for themselves. Breathing can be really helpful as well.
And so there's all types of breathing there. You can Google star breathing, square breathing. They're all meant to help in relaxing. And so you can teach those kinds of things. You can put apps on the phone. that help breathe with you. And so there are apps that kind of like grow bigger and then smaller and they kind of like modulate the breath. Some watches can have apps that do that as well.
I did not find breathing helpful because I was so hyper-focused on my breathing that when people would tell me to breathe, I would hyperventilate more. coping mechanism is going to knock it out of the park for your child, teen or young adult. So I think that's really important to be aware of. Sometimes ice is really grounding, like holding an ice cube or putting an ice pack behind your neck, but find out what works for your child. And then you have to ask yourself,
What is your role? So you have this plan, right? These are the go-to things that I do when I have a panic attack. For some of the kids that I've worked with where they feel trapped, We would talk about if you're in the movie theater and you feel trapped, you can go to the bathroom and you can close the stall. And when you're in the stall, what can you do to ground yourself? So, you know, bringing it outside of the home, different things that they can do.
And then ask your child, what role do they want you to play? For my daughter, my youngest daughter, What I did when she was little versus what she wants me to do now has changed and shifted. She wants me, I asked her, and she wants me to pretend like nothing's happening and distract her with conversation. And I said to her, I can do that.
But I want you to know that I know when you're having an anxiety attack and I'm not being insensitive if I do that. Because I don't, the worst thing I want is that you think I don't. recognize it and I'm being insensitive or callous and she said no mom it will really help me and so that's what we do in the past I would have to kind of walk through you know
her red thoughts and green thoughts, and that would kind of calm her. And we would do some of her plan of what she wanted. And so it shifted as she got older. So ask your child, what role do you want me to do while you're going through this plan? You want to be a cheerleader and a coach, but you don't want to be doing something.
And if you are doing something, you slowly want to move away from that over time. And so if the thing that they want is they want you to pat their back or they want you to say certain things, that's fine. But your ultimate goal is to remove yourself physically and verbally from it. You're there and you can sit there and support them and anchor them. But you always want in the back of your mind, how is this on the road?
How is this mobile, right? Without me, because otherwise you're going to get that secondary dependency that you don't want. And so if they want you to rub their back. You can, but then you might say, what are some things that you can do if I'm not here that would calm you? Always thinking about what can they do when I'm not with them? Because those are the lifelong skills that we want to establish. And the last thing I want to say.
is it's so important to anchor yourself. And this is a real struggle for me because when my kids are panicking, it triggers my own anxiety. I'm worried they're going to pass out or throw up, which would be really overwhelming. And so it's the loss of control. by proxy. Like I'm worried about them losing control. And in essence, I'm losing control of the situation. And so I have had to accept like this may happen. I've had to carry around.
medical barf bags because that might happen. I carry around diarrhea pills. That might happen. So I'm prepared on some level. And down the road, maybe that's something that they would do, that they would carry a barfback. When we travel, everybody in their backpack has a barfback. And I'm sad to say that it's been used. And so it's not me being really weird and paranoid. It's been used. And diarrhea pills. So what are some things that...
you can have to be prepared and then remind yourself, this is not a medical emergency. It seems scary, but the more I ground myself and use the same techniques that we just talked about. grounding yourself, the more I'll be there for my child. So I try to lovingly detach. I do have a podcast episode on that. Let me see it. And that is episode 249, how to lovingly detach from our kids. That doesn't mean that we abandon them. It just means how do I anchor?
So I can be there without adding fuel to the fire. And so that work is really, really important. And I would work on that. And we do support you on that. That is what we do at the AT Parenting Community at Full Circle. We'll talk about that because working with our own anxiety and our own triggers is so important. And that's why I spent a lot of time working on that and supporting you because that's the hardest part. When my child is panicking, the first thing I do is I zone in on me.
And I do some of the skills that I've worked on and I anchor myself before I swoop in and try to help them. And that episode, that podcast episode will help you give you some skills on that. But if you want in-depth support. We've got you. We've got your back. Join us at AT Parenting Community.
And you can check it out at natashadaniels.com slash AT Parenting Community. I've seen parents who are dealing with anxiety and panic attacks jump into our forums, jump into our Facebook group and get support in the moment. What should I do? We actually just did.
a live class on how to help when your child is stuck in an OCD loop. We've done things on what do you do when your child is panicking. So lots of work that we can do on our end. And honestly, In all my years of practice, the parents that have worked equally on themselves have had kids with the best long-term success, hands down.
Because when we're burnt out, we're exhausted, we are running on fumes. We can't be there for our kids and we won't be able to anchor when they're having an anxiety or panic attack. So I hope that you found this helpful. If you are, don't forget to hit a star and rate the podcast. You know, I appreciate it when you do that. And I also wanted to read a review because I appreciate that as well.
I want to thank Hunt Lloyd who wrote, I just listened to my first episode of your show and discovered your website. And I feel like a weight has been lifted. We've been in the wilderness for years of obsessive thoughts and intense fears and anxiety without understanding what was at the root of it.
all. My 15 year old daughter has just received a diagnosis of OCD, which although devastating is also a relief as things are finally starting to make sense. I can also seek out more targeted resources for both of us. and came across this podcast, and it's exactly what I've been looking for as a parent. Informed, sensible discussion and advice that will help me manage my mindset.
and increase my knowledge and understanding so I can look after myself and do the best by my daughter. Looking forward to the free self-care sessions too. Thank you so much. Oh, I'm so glad you're joining us for the self-care series. That's awesome. And I'm glad that you stumbled on my website. my resources and my podcast because getting the right support, getting the right education.
is so key to helping our kids with anxiety and OCD, and especially OCD, because how we approach OCD is very different than how we approach anxiety or other mental health issues, and it's counterintuitive. So I'm glad that you are. getting support from my resources. And I look forward to seeing you in this series.
So if you write a review, maybe I'll be reading your review next time. Don't forget to find the sparkle in everything you do. I'll talk to you again next Tuesday. Take care. Thank you for listening to the AT Parenting Survival Podcast. To get additional... raising a child with anxiety or OCD, visit Natasha's online school of on-demand classes at atparentingsurvivalschool.com.